Help!please

[GeneralSapphire]

umm this thread has either been done before, its in the wrong place or youll all think im stupid, but here goes...
Does Cloud love Aerith or Tifa, whats his relationship with both?

[silentenigma]

Either. Default is Aeris. people outside Japan generally like Tifa better.

[Bart's Friend Milhouse]

It's open for you as the gamer to decide. I personally prefer the Cloud-Aeris combination

[GeneralSapphire]

:D But i think Aerith and Zack go better and Tifa and Cloud
ok cheers all for your help

[Cloud_Lion_Heart]

I think Cloud is just a pimp. On your night at the gold saucer you can even pimp slap one of the two. Well what about Clouds connection with Barret or yuffie? have you ever thought about that? Cloud could be a homosextural or a materia hunter slave.

[Captain Maxx Power]

On a complex, emotional level, I believe that Cloud loved both Aeris and Tifa. However, I believe that he loved them both for different reasons, and that the only ones that were truthfully his own were his feelings towards Tifa.

FYI I'm going to spoiler the carp out of you all minus spoiler tags. So if you're one of the 0.45% of the population who hasn't played FF7 and have managed to read this preamble to this point without sneaking a look below, you know have five seconds to get the fudge out of here.

...

Alright, let's carry on.

During the course of the game, it is made explicitly clear that Cloud's memories are a bit of a mess. Through various self-depricating thoughts, traumatic experiences and weak personality to begin with, Cloud's own memories were tangled up with that of his best friend in SOLDIER, Zack. Another side element to this is the fact that Aeris and Zack at some point were involved in a relationship. The exact nature of this relationship is never made clear. However it is known that after the Nibelheim incident, when Zack was being experimented on with Cloud in the Shinra Mansion, that she lost contact with him. So it's fair to say that their relationship, whatever it may have been, was at least stable before Zack's untimely demise.

Now within the game it's made clear that Cloud's own memories are not a carbon copy of what Zack tells him (the whole first flashback involving Cloud in the place of Zack does however show that Cloud has assimilated many of Zack's experiences). He retains memories of Nibelheim being his hometown, of Tifa, of the time they met at the town well etc. So at this point though Cloud is a bit of a mess, a large portion of him is still himself. This is important for the whole through narrative of the game. While it is never said directly by Cloud himself, it is obvious that a lot of Cloud's early memories and his motivations to do what he did in attempting to join SOLDIER revolved almost exclusively around Tifa.

Now looking back at Tifa and Cloud's relationship as children, there is an inconsistency in the way Cloud acts and why he acts in this manner. The main inconsistency is the fact that Cloud and Tifa were not best friends as children. Infact, it would be a stretch to call them anything beyond acquiantances. Assuming for a moment that there are other females for Cloud to be infactuated with in Nibelheim (yes, it is logistically a small town, however RPG town sizes are usually grossly inaccurate and usually non-indicative of the relative size of the town if it were to really exsist, so let's assume that it's an averaged size town with a fair population). It wouldn't really make sense for Cloud to go to such great lengths to impress Tifa, unless Cloud had feelings for her that went deeper than a simple desire to be friends. While we can't really account for physical attraction at such a young age, we can attribute a feeling of attraction in terms of personality. So even at this young age Cloud demonstrates a deeper set of feelings for Tifa that one could easily associate with love, and given the circumstances is the only logical arguement. The other one is that Cloud is slightly psychotic and obsessed with Tifa, but I'll but that one harshly aside since it has no arguementative benefit and no evidence with which to back it up.

Now consider Cloud's subsequent time in Shinra, his failure to become a part of SOLDIER, and his return to home. As is explained in the lifestream flashback, Cloud is ashamed of his return to town. However, in the "original" flashback we see that Cloud is willing to visit his own mother. Surely someone would be less inclined to admit to their own parents that they weren't able to achieve what they set out to do than they would the general populace? Well we see that the "straw that breaks the camel's back" is in the form of Cloud seeing Tifa waiting outside of town for him to arrive. As soon as he sees her, he immediately puts on his helmet in order to hide his identity. If Tifa was a casual acquaintance, Cloud would have simply left his helmet off, gone over to say hi, and then carried on with his mission. He explicitly leaves his helmet on and refuses to talk to Tifa at any point. This in itself is a classic example of internal conflict. Cloud promised the world to Tifa, thinking that if he becomes stronger and more than he is that she would take an interest with him (bare in mind that he was constantly baying for her attention as a child but was outdone by Tifa's own circle of friends, to which he probably directly compared himself). To have to deal with this conflict is obviously too much for Cloud and he is forced to simply hide himself.

Now onto the scene in which Cloud stabs Sephiroth and subsequently throws him into the Lifestream. Cloud would have been knowledgable in the abilities of Sephiroth. He would have also been knowing of his own short-comings (at least based on his own self-expectations). Now imagine this: A single man has managed to murder everyone and destroy an entire town without breaking a sweat. He enters the Nibelheim reactor and sees Zack, his best friend, and Tifa, the one person for whom his entire life has revolved around for so long, both struck down by Sephiroth. Now just imagine the sheer drive that it would take for a lowly foot soldier to take up a SOLDIER's sword and attempt to take on a legendary figure such as Sephiroth without a moment's hesitation. Just a day before Cloud was too afraid to show his face to Tifa. Now he's charging into battle with a person that, under most circumstances, could probably snap Cloud in two. What's more extraordinary is he wins! Despite being stabbed viciously through the shoulder/chest (the graphics are a bit iffy to tell for definite where Cloud is stabbed, but I imagine it would have to be in the shoulder to survive), Cloud grabs Sephiroth's sword, overpowers him, and throws him into the Lifestream. It would take a hell of a lot of overwhelming emotions for any person to do such an act. While the death of his mother/town and Zack's injuries would have contributed to this, I imagine that the sight of Tifa injured on the floor because of his own cowardice would have been the major motivation behind this incident. Remember from earlier on that many of Cloud's decisions were based around Tifa, specifically the moment when she fell from the bridge in the Nibelheim mountains and Cloud was blamed. Cloud's own desires to become stronger were directly related to his desire to make sure Tifa was safe and that no harm would come to her. He saw himself as failing to help her when she needed it, and his very exsistence demanded that this be carried out. So seeing that he had failed again at this, it was more than enough to give him the strength to fight against Sephiroth.

After this the next time Tifa and Cloud meet is not long after Cloud ends up in Midgar, half-dazed and confused and with conflicting memories. The way Tifa acts towards him however suggests a relationship deeper than the one that actually happened. During the earlier game moments the two speak as though they have known each other intimately for many years. The truth is that neither of them have ever really been intimate friends. The main basis of the relationship is on Tifa's experiences with Cloud's revelation of heading to SOLDIER and Cloud's false memories regarding their past. Game events pass, the revelations I have given above go past, and Cloud's feelings are made clear. But what of Tifa?

What is interesting in all of this is that despite Tifa never being best friends with Cloud and not having any memories of Cloud being at Nibelheim many years ago during the Sephiroth incident, she is more than willing to help him find himself during the Lifestream scene. As mentioned above she's also willing to go along with Cloud's own charade of being in SOLDIER and being in Nibelheim without so much as a word. She even demands that she go with him into the Northern Crater the first time, and is the only person to remain with Cloud the night before the Final Battle (we'll cover that presently). All of this is very odd behaviour for her. She's portrayed as a strong person capable of taking care of herself, yet she attaches herself to Cloud. Now two main reasons present themselves prominently. Firstly is Tifa's own attempts to better understand her own feelings towards Cloud. She is willing to follow him into pretty much any situation with aplomb, and spends many moments trying to converse with Cloud about the past. To me much of Tifa's narrative with Cloud, the main goal of Tifa is to better understand Cloud and how she feels towards him. It is only in the closing moments of Disc 2 that her mind is finally made clear on the subject. Now as to how this pans out is up for interpretation, and also annoyingly down to the "love system" that is in place in FF7. Basically the dialogue changes in the scene between her and Cloud. I can't say for certain which dialogue is considered "canon". But the basic crux of the whole conversation is that Tifa says she feels stronger around Cloud, and Cloud is simply being Cloud and is unable to express himself in the way he would like. As to what happens during the night I'm not going to speculate (some would argue that a certain something happens and that it actually proves Cloud and Tifa's relationship) but it's obvious that the two do share an intimate moment or series of moments that are not shown on the screen directly but are implied. So at this point it's obvious that their feelings towards each other are expressly clear, even if they aren't said in words (poetic stuff, but people tend to miss the point because of it).

So the long and short of it is that while Cloud and Tifa's relationship has been tenuous and very unorthadox, whatever may have happened beforehand leading up to this point, both Cloud and Tifa, I heartily believe, love each other and both are aware of how the other feels about them. This however is compounded somewhat by the Advent Children movie which is ambiguous about Cloud and Tifa's relationship, though I believe this was more to do with SE's insistence on keeping Aeris fans happy by not ruining their notions of Cloud being in mourning for the loss of the woman he loved (tm). Perhaps the biggest piece of evidence to support the idea that Tifa and Cloud aren't involved in a physical relationship by AC is the fact that they have two seperate beds. Not one to be too crude, but they are both young people and as such the need for seperate beds would be pointless. So while I can't say that their love then goes into a full-blown relationship (which it probably doesn't), there is definately a caring element between the two which runs deeper than most conventional friendships.

And now, at long last, onto Cloud and Aeris' relationship. This should be much shorted since Aeris' and Cloud have a much shorter history. Keep in mind during the course of this that I am going on one main assumption: That Cloud loves Tifa at the beginning of the game, even if he himself is not aware of it. I also go on the assumption that Cloud is aware of Aeris, if not on a first name basis, but on some subconcious level, as told through Zack.

Now Aeris and Cloud never really have anything I would call intimate scenes. In many ways Aeris is portrayed as some kind of "angel". Just before and after her death it is made obvious that her own abilities go beyond that of a simple "spellcaster", that somehow her consciousness is beyond that of many of the main characters. As such her status is raised to a near legendary entity. Even during her death she accepts it with a smile and no surprise/resistance. As such I believe that Aeris' main character is based not around her relationship with Cloud, but rather her part in the saving and ultimately the redemption of humanity. Her body is almost like a vessel for her Lifestream spirit to do it's work. For her to do what she had to do, it was necessary for her to die. She more than likely knew this, given the circumstances of her death. So it is interesting to view her actions towards Cloud in this light. While we cannot say for certain if Aeris was aware of her own death at any point during the game (no evidence exsists to support this), it is made clear that she is aware of the Lifestream and her Ancient heritage. The two combined together are a formiddable force indeed.

So what about Cloud's feelings? Well, I'm going to bite the bullet and dare to be different here by saying that the large majority of Cloud's feelings were based on two elements: The love he felt for Tifa, and the love Zack felt for Aeris. The first part is easy to describe, since many people who have lived for a number of years can relate to this. Basically Cloud loved Tifa, but he wasn't aware of it and certainly wasn't expressing it. As such he would have been experiencing these feelings without an outlet to them. Given his already fractured and weak psyche, is it any wonder that his mind would be forced to find an outlet for these confusing thoughts? Enter Aeris. Here is a sweet, fun, loving and beautiful woman whom Cloud immediately takes a shine to (see the "trash yard" scene, the wall market, the prison etc.). Having already been experiencing these feelings towards Tifa upon meeting Aeris, a small part of his mind might have attributed the source of these feelings to the arrival of Aeris. After all, if the human brain is in distress it will desperately seek out a solution or explanation to it's strife (no pun intended). Cloud's brain being "mushier" than your average joe, he was more likely to see Aeris as an answer to his problem. Inevitably though his salvation comes not in the form of Aeris but in the form of Tifa through the Lifestream scene. Could Aeris have performed the same "rite of passage"? No, I don't think she could have. Whilst Aeris gets to know Cloud reasonably well, it is the Cloud based upon false memories and a broken mindset. It is not the "real" Cloud. Only Tifa, who knew of Cloud's true past, could have ever served such a purpose, and only through Cloud and Tifa's mutual love for each other.

The other side of the coin is Zack's own feelings towards Aeris. As has been seen with Cloud's movements/personality, there is a definite cross-over from Zack into him. Before Cloud assumed Zack's identity, he was a very unanimated person. Think back to the scene in the truck. Zack is the one jumping around and generally being very animated. Cloud simply sits and sulks. As a child he is a loner and very drab person. The Cloud that exsists today, even after he has his head "sorted out", is still based a lot upon Zack's own personality. As such we can assume that Cloud would have some part of Zack's own feelings as well. While I don't believe that Cloud is directly channelling Zack's feelings towards Aeris through himself, I do believe these is an element of "bleed through" going on. Parts of Cloud think he is Zack, therefore parts of Cloud would see Aeris as someone he once loved. So again while Cloud's feelings aren't a purposeful reaction (then again, when are any such feelings a purposeful reaction?), they can be attributed to Zack's own feelings.

I hope this hasn't been too much for everyone to handle, but to summarise this is my own theory behind the matter:

Cloud loves Tifa. Of that there can be no doubt. His life practically revolves around protecting her. Tifa does love Cloud, but probably not to the same extent. This is based more upon her own realisations through the course of the game rather than past experiences. Cloud loves Aeris, but not in the same way he loves Tifa. Much of the love he experiences is based on his own confused feelings. Aeris' feelings we cannot give a definition to. She is "beyond" many of the other characters in terms of purpose. We can say that she definately cares for Cloud, however the game and Advent Children suggest her continued true love is and always will be Zack.

EDIT: Crap, I wrote a lot. I'm gonna go Wiki this for general interest.

[Christmas]

On a complex, emotional level, I believe that Cloud loved both Aeris and Tifa. However, I believe that he loved them both for different reasons, and that the only ones that were truthfully his own were his feelings towards Tifa.

FYI I'm going to spoiler the carp out of you all minus spoiler tags. So if you're one of the 0.45% of the population who hasn't played FF7 and have managed to read this preamble to this point without sneaking a look below, you know have five seconds to get the fudge out of here.

...

Alright, let's carry on.

During the course of the game, it is made explicitly clear that Cloud's memories are a bit of a mess. Through various self-depricating thoughts, traumatic experiences and weak personality to begin with, Cloud's own memories were tangled up with that of his best friend in SOLDIER, Zack. Another side element to this is the fact that Aeris and Zack at some point were involved in a relationship. The exact nature of this relationship is never made clear. However it is known that after the Nibelheim incident, when Zack was being experimented on with Cloud in the Shinra Mansion, that she lost contact with him. So it's fair to say that their relationship, whatever it may have been, was at least stable before Zack's untimely demise.

Now within the game it's made clear that Cloud's own memories are not a carbon copy of what Zack tells him (the whole first flashback involving Cloud in the place of Zack does however show that Cloud has assimilated many of Zack's experiences). He retains memories of Nibelheim being his hometown, of Tifa, of the time they met at the town well etc. So at this point though Cloud is a bit of a mess, a large portion of him is still himself. This is important for the whole through narrative of the game. While it is never said directly by Cloud himself, it is obvious that a lot of Cloud's early memories and his motivations to do what he did in attempting to join SOLDIER revolved almost exclusively around Tifa.

Now looking back at Tifa and Cloud's relationship as children, there is an inconsistency in the way Cloud acts and why he acts in this manner. The main inconsistency is the fact that Cloud and Tifa were not best friends as children. Infact, it would be a stretch to call them anything beyond acquiantances. Assuming for a moment that there are other females for Cloud to be infactuated with in Nibelheim (yes, it is logistically a small town, however RPG town sizes are usually grossly inaccurate and usually non-indicative of the relative size of the town if it were to really exsist, so let's assume that it's an averaged size town with a fair population). It wouldn't really make sense for Cloud to go to such great lengths to impress Tifa, unless Cloud had feelings for her that went deeper than a simple desire to be friends. While we can't really account for physical attraction at such a young age, we can attribute a feeling of attraction in terms of personality. So even at this young age Cloud demonstrates a deeper set of feelings for Tifa that one could easily associate with love, and given the circumstances is the only logical arguement. The other one is that Cloud is slightly psychotic and obsessed with Tifa, but I'll but that one harshly aside since it has no arguementative benefit and no evidence with which to back it up.

Now consider Cloud's subsequent time in Shinra, his failure to become a part of SOLDIER, and his return to home. As is explained in the lifestream flashback, Cloud is ashamed of his return to town. However, in the "original" flashback we see that Cloud is willing to visit his own mother. Surely someone would be less inclined to admit to their own parents that they weren't able to achieve what they set out to do than they would the general populace? Well we see that the "straw that breaks the camel's back" is in the form of Cloud seeing Tifa waiting outside of town for him to arrive. As soon as he sees her, he immediately puts on his helmet in order to hide his identity. If Tifa was a casual acquaintance, Cloud would have simply left his helmet off, gone over to say hi, and then carried on with his mission. He explicitly leaves his helmet on and refuses to talk to Tifa at any point. This in itself is a classic example of internal conflict. Cloud promised the world to Tifa, thinking that if he becomes stronger and more than he is that she would take an interest with him (bare in mind that he was constantly baying for her attention as a child but was outdone by Tifa's own circle of friends, to which he probably directly compared himself). To have to deal with this conflict is obviously too much for Cloud and he is forced to simply hide himself.

Now onto the scene in which Cloud stabs Sephiroth and subsequently throws him into the Lifestream. Cloud would have been knowledgable in the abilities of Sephiroth. He would have also been knowing of his own short-comings (at least based on his own self-expectations). Now imagine this: A single man has managed to murder everyone and destroy an entire town without breaking a sweat. He enters the Nibelheim reactor and sees Zack, his best friend, and Tifa, the one person for whom his entire life has revolved around for so long, both struck down by Sephiroth. Now just imagine the sheer drive that it would take for a lowly foot soldier to take up a SOLDIER's sword and attempt to take on a legendary figure such as Sephiroth without a moment's hesitation. Just a day before Cloud was too afraid to show his face to Tifa. Now he's charging into battle with a person that, under most circumstances, could probably snap Cloud in two. What's more extraordinary is he wins! Despite being stabbed viciously through the shoulder/chest (the graphics are a bit iffy to tell for definite where Cloud is stabbed, but I imagine it would have to be in the shoulder to survive), Cloud grabs Sephiroth's sword, overpowers him, and throws him into the Lifestream. It would take a hell of a lot of overwhelming emotions for any person to do such an act. While the death of his mother/town and Zack's injuries would have contributed to this, I imagine that the sight of Tifa injured on the floor because of his own cowardice would have been the major motivation behind this incident. Remember from earlier on that many of Cloud's decisions were based around Tifa, specifically the moment when she fell from the bridge in the Nibelheim mountains and Cloud was blamed. Cloud's own desires to become stronger were directly related to his desire to make sure Tifa was safe and that no harm would come to her. He saw himself as failing to help her when she needed it, and his very exsistence demanded that this be carried out. So seeing that he had failed again at this, it was more than enough to give him the strength to fight against Sephiroth.

After this the next time Tifa and Cloud meet is not long after Cloud ends up in Midgar, half-dazed and confused and with conflicting memories. The way Tifa acts towards him however suggests a relationship deeper than the one that actually happened. During the earlier game moments the two speak as though they have known each other intimately for many years. The truth is that neither of them have ever really been intimate friends. The main basis of the relationship is on Tifa's experiences with Cloud's revelation of heading to SOLDIER and Cloud's false memories regarding their past. Game events pass, the revelations I have given above go past, and Cloud's feelings are made clear. But what of Tifa?

What is interesting in all of this is that despite Tifa never being best friends with Cloud and not having any memories of Cloud being at Nibelheim many years ago during the Sephiroth incident, she is more than willing to help him find himself during the Lifestream scene. As mentioned above she's also willing to go along with Cloud's own charade of being in SOLDIER and being in Nibelheim without so much as a word. She even demands that she go with him into the Northern Crater the first time, and is the only person to remain with Cloud the night before the Final Battle (we'll cover that presently). All of this is very odd behaviour for her. She's portrayed as a strong person capable of taking care of herself, yet she attaches herself to Cloud. Now two main reasons present themselves prominently. Firstly is Tifa's own attempts to better understand her own feelings towards Cloud. She is willing to follow him into pretty much any situation with aplomb, and spends many moments trying to converse with Cloud about the past. To me much of Tifa's narrative with Cloud, the main goal of Tifa is to better understand Cloud and how she feels towards him. It is only in the closing moments of Disc 2 that her mind is finally made clear on the subject. Now as to how this pans out is up for interpretation, and also annoyingly down to the "love system" that is in place in FF7. Basically the dialogue changes in the scene between her and Cloud. I can't say for certain which dialogue is considered "canon". But the basic crux of the whole conversation is that Tifa says she feels stronger around Cloud, and Cloud is simply being Cloud and is unable to express himself in the way he would like. As to what happens during the night I'm not going to speculate (some would argue that a certain something happens and that it actually proves Cloud and Tifa's relationship) but it's obvious that the two do share an intimate moment or series of moments that are not shown on the screen directly but are implied. So at this point it's obvious that their feelings towards each other are expressly clear, even if they aren't said in words (poetic stuff, but people tend to miss the point because of it).

So the long and short of it is that while Cloud and Tifa's relationship has been tenuous and very unorthadox, whatever may have happened beforehand leading up to this point, both Cloud and Tifa, I heartily believe, love each other and both are aware of how the other feels about them. This however is compounded somewhat by the Advent Children movie which is ambiguous about Cloud and Tifa's relationship, though I believe this was more to do with SE's insistence on keeping Aeris fans happy by not ruining their notions of Cloud being in mourning for the loss of the woman he loved (tm). Perhaps the biggest piece of evidence to support the idea that Tifa and Cloud aren't involved in a physical relationship by AC is the fact that they have two seperate beds. Not one to be too crude, but they are both young people and as such the need for seperate beds would be pointless. So while I can't say that their love then goes into a full-blown relationship (which it probably doesn't), there is definately a caring element between the two which runs deeper than most conventional friendships.

And now, at long last, onto Cloud and Aeris' relationship. This should be much shorted since Aeris' and Cloud have a much shorter history. Keep in mind during the course of this that I am going on one main assumption: That Cloud loves Tifa at the beginning of the game, even if he himself is not aware of it. I also go on the assumption that Cloud is aware of Aeris, if not on a first name basis, but on some subconcious level, as told through Zack.

Now Aeris and Cloud never really have anything I would call intimate scenes. In many ways Aeris is portrayed as some kind of "angel". Just before and after her death it is made obvious that her own abilities go beyond that of a simple "spellcaster", that somehow her consciousness is beyond that of many of the main characters. As such her status is raised to a near legendary entity. Even during her death she accepts it with a smile and no surprise/resistance. As such I believe that Aeris' main character is based not around her relationship with Cloud, but rather her part in the saving and ultimately the redemption of humanity. Her body is almost like a vessel for her Lifestream spirit to do it's work. For her to do what she had to do, it was necessary for her to die. She more than likely knew this, given the circumstances of her death. So it is interesting to view her actions towards Cloud in this light. While we cannot say for certain if Aeris was aware of her own death at any point during the game (no evidence exsists to support this), it is made clear that she is aware of the Lifestream and her Ancient heritage. The two combined together are a formiddable force indeed.

So what about Cloud's feelings? Well, I'm going to bite the bullet and dare to be different here by saying that the large majority of Cloud's feelings were based on two elements: The love he felt for Tifa, and the love Zack felt for Aeris. The first part is easy to describe, since many people who have lived for a number of years can relate to this. Basically Cloud loved Tifa, but he wasn't aware of it and certainly wasn't expressing it. As such he would have been experiencing these feelings without an outlet to them. Given his already fractured and weak psyche, is it any wonder that his mind would be forced to find an outlet for these confusing thoughts? Enter Aeris. Here is a sweet, fun, loving and beautiful woman whom Cloud immediately takes a shine to (see the "trash yard" scene, the wall market, the prison etc.). Having already been experiencing these feelings towards Tifa upon meeting Aeris, a small part of his mind might have attributed the source of these feelings to the arrival of Aeris. After all, if the human brain is in distress it will desperately seek out a solution or explanation to it's strife (no pun intended). Cloud's brain being "mushier" than your average joe, he was more likely to see Aeris as an answer to his problem. Inevitably though his salvation comes not in the form of Aeris but in the form of Tifa through the Lifestream scene. Could Aeris have performed the same "rite of passage"? No, I don't think she could have. Whilst Aeris gets to know Cloud reasonably well, it is the Cloud based upon false memories and a broken mindset. It is not the "real" Cloud. Only Tifa, who knew of Cloud's true past, could have ever served such a purpose, and only through Cloud and Tifa's mutual love for each other.

The other side of the coin is Zack's own feelings towards Aeris. As has been seen with Cloud's movements/personality, there is a definite cross-over from Zack into him. Before Cloud assumed Zack's identity, he was a very unanimated person. Think back to the scene in the truck. Zack is the one jumping around and generally being very animated. Cloud simply sits and sulks. As a child he is a loner and very drab person. The Cloud that exsists today, even after he has his head "sorted out", is still based a lot upon Zack's own personality. As such we can assume that Cloud would have some part of Zack's own feelings as well. While I don't believe that Cloud is directly channelling Zack's feelings towards Aeris through himself, I do believe these is an element of "bleed through" going on. Parts of Cloud think he is Zack, therefore parts of Cloud would see Aeris as someone he once loved. So again while Cloud's feelings aren't a purposeful reaction (then again, when are any such feelings a purposeful reaction?), they can be attributed to Zack's own feelings.

I hope this hasn't been too much for everyone to handle, but to summarise this is my own theory behind the matter:

Cloud loves Tifa. Of that there can be no doubt. His life practically revolves around protecting her. Tifa does love Cloud, but probably not to the same extent. This is based more upon her own realisations through the course of the game rather than past experiences. Cloud loves Aeris, but not in the same way he loves Tifa. Much of the love he experiences is based on his own confused feelings. Aeris' feelings we cannot give a definition to. She is "beyond" many of the other characters in terms of purpose. We can say that she definately cares for Cloud, however the game and Advent Children suggest her continued true love is and always will be Zack.

EDIT: Crap, I wrote a lot. I'm gonna go Wiki this for general interest.


I AGREE.

[BarelySeeAtAll]

Cloud and Tifa, then Zack and Aerith.Thats how im seeing it, m'dear

[silentenigma]

Either. Default is Aeris. people outside Japan generally like Tifa better.

And then these people outside Japan claim that Aeris only loves Cloud because of the Zack in him, but this can be disproved with one quote:

Aeris: "But you're different..."

[Dr. Acula]

On a complex, emotional level, I believe that Cloud loved both Aeris and Tifa. However, I believe that he loved them both for different reasons, and that the only ones that were truthfully his own were his feelings towards Tifa.

FYI I'm going to spoiler the carp out of you all minus spoiler tags. So if you're one of the 0.45% of the population who hasn't played FF7 and have managed to read this preamble to this point without sneaking a look below, you know have five seconds to get the fudge out of here.

...

Alright, let's carry on.

During the course of the game, it is made explicitly clear that Cloud's memories are a bit of a mess. Through various self-depricating thoughts, traumatic experiences and weak personality to begin with, Cloud's own memories were tangled up with that of his best friend in SOLDIER, Zack. Another side element to this is the fact that Aeris and Zack at some point were involved in a relationship. The exact nature of this relationship is never made clear. However it is known that after the Nibelheim incident, when Zack was being experimented on with Cloud in the Shinra Mansion, that she lost contact with him. So it's fair to say that their relationship, whatever it may have been, was at least stable before Zack's untimely demise.

Now within the game it's made clear that Cloud's own memories are not a carbon copy of what Zack tells him (the whole first flashback involving Cloud in the place of Zack does however show that Cloud has assimilated many of Zack's experiences). He retains memories of Nibelheim being his hometown, of Tifa, of the time they met at the town well etc. So at this point though Cloud is a bit of a mess, a large portion of him is still himself. This is important for the whole through narrative of the game. While it is never said directly by Cloud himself, it is obvious that a lot of Cloud's early memories and his motivations to do what he did in attempting to join SOLDIER revolved almost exclusively around Tifa.

Now looking back at Tifa and Cloud's relationship as children, there is an inconsistency in the way Cloud acts and why he acts in this manner. The main inconsistency is the fact that Cloud and Tifa were not best friends as children. Infact, it would be a stretch to call them anything beyond acquiantances. Assuming for a moment that there are other females for Cloud to be infactuated with in Nibelheim (yes, it is logistically a small town, however RPG town sizes are usually grossly inaccurate and usually non-indicative of the relative size of the town if it were to really exsist, so let's assume that it's an averaged size town with a fair population). It wouldn't really make sense for Cloud to go to such great lengths to impress Tifa, unless Cloud had feelings for her that went deeper than a simple desire to be friends. While we can't really account for physical attraction at such a young age, we can attribute a feeling of attraction in terms of personality. So even at this young age Cloud demonstrates a deeper set of feelings for Tifa that one could easily associate with love, and given the circumstances is the only logical arguement. The other one is that Cloud is slightly psychotic and obsessed with Tifa, but I'll but that one harshly aside since it has no arguementative benefit and no evidence with which to back it up.

Now consider Cloud's subsequent time in Shinra, his failure to become a part of SOLDIER, and his return to home. As is explained in the lifestream flashback, Cloud is ashamed of his return to town. However, in the "original" flashback we see that Cloud is willing to visit his own mother. Surely someone would be less inclined to admit to their own parents that they weren't able to achieve what they set out to do than they would the general populace? Well we see that the "straw that breaks the camel's back" is in the form of Cloud seeing Tifa waiting outside of town for him to arrive. As soon as he sees her, he immediately puts on his helmet in order to hide his identity. If Tifa was a casual acquaintance, Cloud would have simply left his helmet off, gone over to say hi, and then carried on with his mission. He explicitly leaves his helmet on and refuses to talk to Tifa at any point. This in itself is a classic example of internal conflict. Cloud promised the world to Tifa, thinking that if he becomes stronger and more than he is that she would take an interest with him (bare in mind that he was constantly baying for her attention as a child but was outdone by Tifa's own circle of friends, to which he probably directly compared himself). To have to deal with this conflict is obviously too much for Cloud and he is forced to simply hide himself.

Now onto the scene in which Cloud stabs Sephiroth and subsequently throws him into the Lifestream. Cloud would have been knowledgable in the abilities of Sephiroth. He would have also been knowing of his own short-comings (at least based on his own self-expectations). Now imagine this: A single man has managed to murder everyone and destroy an entire town without breaking a sweat. He enters the Nibelheim reactor and sees Zack, his best friend, and Tifa, the one person for whom his entire life has revolved around for so long, both struck down by Sephiroth. Now just imagine the sheer drive that it would take for a lowly foot soldier to take up a SOLDIER's sword and attempt to take on a legendary figure such as Sephiroth without a moment's hesitation. Just a day before Cloud was too afraid to show his face to Tifa. Now he's charging into battle with a person that, under most circumstances, could probably snap Cloud in two. What's more extraordinary is he wins! Despite being stabbed viciously through the shoulder/chest (the graphics are a bit iffy to tell for definite where Cloud is stabbed, but I imagine it would have to be in the shoulder to survive), Cloud grabs Sephiroth's sword, overpowers him, and throws him into the Lifestream. It would take a hell of a lot of overwhelming emotions for any person to do such an act. While the death of his mother/town and Zack's injuries would have contributed to this, I imagine that the sight of Tifa injured on the floor because of his own cowardice would have been the major motivation behind this incident. Remember from earlier on that many of Cloud's decisions were based around Tifa, specifically the moment when she fell from the bridge in the Nibelheim mountains and Cloud was blamed. Cloud's own desires to become stronger were directly related to his desire to make sure Tifa was safe and that no harm would come to her. He saw himself as failing to help her when she needed it, and his very exsistence demanded that this be carried out. So seeing that he had failed again at this, it was more than enough to give him the strength to fight against Sephiroth.

After this the next time Tifa and Cloud meet is not long after Cloud ends up in Midgar, half-dazed and confused and with conflicting memories. The way Tifa acts towards him however suggests a relationship deeper than the one that actually happened. During the earlier game moments the two speak as though they have known each other intimately for many years. The truth is that neither of them have ever really been intimate friends. The main basis of the relationship is on Tifa's experiences with Cloud's revelation of heading to SOLDIER and Cloud's false memories regarding their past. Game events pass, the revelations I have given above go past, and Cloud's feelings are made clear. But what of Tifa?

What is interesting in all of this is that despite Tifa never being best friends with Cloud and not having any memories of Cloud being at Nibelheim many years ago during the Sephiroth incident, she is more than willing to help him find himself during the Lifestream scene. As mentioned above she's also willing to go along with Cloud's own charade of being in SOLDIER and being in Nibelheim without so much as a word. She even demands that she go with him into the Northern Crater the first time, and is the only person to remain with Cloud the night before the Final Battle (we'll cover that presently). All of this is very odd behaviour for her. She's portrayed as a strong person capable of taking care of herself, yet she attaches herself to Cloud. Now two main reasons present themselves prominently. Firstly is Tifa's own attempts to better understand her own feelings towards Cloud. She is willing to follow him into pretty much any situation with aplomb, and spends many moments trying to converse with Cloud about the past. To me much of Tifa's narrative with Cloud, the main goal of Tifa is to better understand Cloud and how she feels towards him. It is only in the closing moments of Disc 2 that her mind is finally made clear on the subject. Now as to how this pans out is up for interpretation, and also annoyingly down to the "love system" that is in place in FF7. Basically the dialogue changes in the scene between her and Cloud. I can't say for certain which dialogue is considered "canon". But the basic crux of the whole conversation is that Tifa says she feels stronger around Cloud, and Cloud is simply being Cloud and is unable to express himself in the way he would like. As to what happens during the night I'm not going to speculate (some would argue that a certain something happens and that it actually proves Cloud and Tifa's relationship) but it's obvious that the two do share an intimate moment or series of moments that are not shown on the screen directly but are implied. So at this point it's obvious that their feelings towards each other are expressly clear, even if they aren't said in words (poetic stuff, but people tend to miss the point because of it).

So the long and short of it is that while Cloud and Tifa's relationship has been tenuous and very unorthadox, whatever may have happened beforehand leading up to this point, both Cloud and Tifa, I heartily believe, love each other and both are aware of how the other feels about them. This however is compounded somewhat by the Advent Children movie which is ambiguous about Cloud and Tifa's relationship, though I believe this was more to do with SE's insistence on keeping Aeris fans happy by not ruining their notions of Cloud being in mourning for the loss of the woman he loved (tm). Perhaps the biggest piece of evidence to support the idea that Tifa and Cloud aren't involved in a physical relationship by AC is the fact that they have two seperate beds. Not one to be too crude, but they are both young people and as such the need for seperate beds would be pointless. So while I can't say that their love then goes into a full-blown relationship (which it probably doesn't), there is definately a caring element between the two which runs deeper than most conventional friendships.

And now, at long last, onto Cloud and Aeris' relationship. This should be much shorted since Aeris' and Cloud have a much shorter history. Keep in mind during the course of this that I am going on one main assumption: That Cloud loves Tifa at the beginning of the game, even if he himself is not aware of it. I also go on the assumption that Cloud is aware of Aeris, if not on a first name basis, but on some subconcious level, as told through Zack.

Now Aeris and Cloud never really have anything I would call intimate scenes. In many ways Aeris is portrayed as some kind of "angel". Just before and after her death it is made obvious that her own abilities go beyond that of a simple "spellcaster", that somehow her consciousness is beyond that of many of the main characters. As such her status is raised to a near legendary entity. Even during her death she accepts it with a smile and no surprise/resistance. As such I believe that Aeris' main character is based not around her relationship with Cloud, but rather her part in the saving and ultimately the redemption of humanity. Her body is almost like a vessel for her Lifestream spirit to do it's work. For her to do what she had to do, it was necessary for her to die. She more than likely knew this, given the circumstances of her death. So it is interesting to view her actions towards Cloud in this light. While we cannot say for certain if Aeris was aware of her own death at any point during the game (no evidence exsists to support this), it is made clear that she is aware of the Lifestream and her Ancient heritage. The two combined together are a formiddable force indeed.

So what about Cloud's feelings? Well, I'm going to bite the bullet and dare to be different here by saying that the large majority of Cloud's feelings were based on two elements: The love he felt for Tifa, and the love Zack felt for Aeris. The first part is easy to describe, since many people who have lived for a number of years can relate to this. Basically Cloud loved Tifa, but he wasn't aware of it and certainly wasn't expressing it. As such he would have been experiencing these feelings without an outlet to them. Given his already fractured and weak psyche, is it any wonder that his mind would be forced to find an outlet for these confusing thoughts? Enter Aeris. Here is a sweet, fun, loving and beautiful woman whom Cloud immediately takes a shine to (see the "trash yard" scene, the wall market, the prison etc.). Having already been experiencing these feelings towards Tifa upon meeting Aeris, a small part of his mind might have attributed the source of these feelings to the arrival of Aeris. After all, if the human brain is in distress it will desperately seek out a solution or explanation to it's strife (no pun intended). Cloud's brain being "mushier" than your average joe, he was more likely to see Aeris as an answer to his problem. Inevitably though his salvation comes not in the form of Aeris but in the form of Tifa through the Lifestream scene. Could Aeris have performed the same "rite of passage"? No, I don't think she could have. Whilst Aeris gets to know Cloud reasonably well, it is the Cloud based upon false memories and a broken mindset. It is not the "real" Cloud. Only Tifa, who knew of Cloud's true past, could have ever served such a purpose, and only through Cloud and Tifa's mutual love for each other.

The other side of the coin is Zack's own feelings towards Aeris. As has been seen with Cloud's movements/personality, there is a definite cross-over from Zack into him. Before Cloud assumed Zack's identity, he was a very unanimated person. Think back to the scene in the truck. Zack is the one jumping around and generally being very animated. Cloud simply sits and sulks. As a child he is a loner and very drab person. The Cloud that exsists today, even after he has his head "sorted out", is still based a lot upon Zack's own personality. As such we can assume that Cloud would have some part of Zack's own feelings as well. While I don't believe that Cloud is directly channelling Zack's feelings towards Aeris through himself, I do believe these is an element of "bleed through" going on. Parts of Cloud think he is Zack, therefore parts of Cloud would see Aeris as someone he once loved. So again while Cloud's feelings aren't a purposeful reaction (then again, when are any such feelings a purposeful reaction?), they can be attributed to Zack's own feelings.

I hope this hasn't been too much for everyone to handle, but to summarise this is my own theory behind the matter:

Cloud loves Tifa. Of that there can be no doubt. His life practically revolves around protecting her. Tifa does love Cloud, but probably not to the same extent. This is based more upon her own realisations through the course of the game rather than past experiences. Cloud loves Aeris, but not in the same way he loves Tifa. Much of the love he experiences is based on his own confused feelings. Aeris' feelings we cannot give a definition to. She is "beyond" many of the other characters in terms of purpose. We can say that she definately cares for Cloud, however the game and Advent Children suggest her continued true love is and always will be Zack.

EDIT: Crap, I wrote a lot. I'm gonna go Wiki this for general interest.

It's very long, but nevertheless I think it's a perfect answer. I agree with you :) .

[Aerisfanatic]

i agree with most off wat maxx power said but then again i dont, aeris at first saw zack in cloud but it wasnt whyn she loved although her true intentions for loving cloud is unaware but at some point in the game like another poster mentioned she said to cloud "how can someone be so differnt but end up so much a like","but your different"and in the original story line cloud falls in love with aeris like in the game although not mentioned, but ends up with her this is different cause the storyline had change but the still wanted there to be romance with these character. and in the game cait sith said that both cloud and aeris' star matches that they are a perfect match

aeris loves cloud very much cause if she didnt she wouldnt have done what she had sdone for him in ac, she apears to him for the first time and places her hand on his shoulder showing that she stills cares for him. aeris is seen with zack at the end of advent children showing
what cloud had lost in ff7 and to give him a sighning off, when aeris had died she still had much to do so naturally zack would have been placed with her to show that he was helping her, and she also places her hand on his forehead after the time he died, showing that shes there for him and resurects himand he suddenly appears in the church and in a different note he lived in the church the whole time so he can remember her and he wouldnt have done it if he didnt care for her, and another notewhen the gang was lifting him up to face bahamut
she was the last and if she wasnt cloud wouldnt have been able to defeat bahumutshe reached out her hasnd and surronded him by her love, as said by the commetary showed on a special on tech tv. and im not saying he doesnt love tifa but im saying his feelings towards aeris werent false and i agreed with alot of the tifa/cloud relationship this was mostly a replie too the aeris and cloud relationship



so there you go i hope you think about wat i said and tell me what you think about said andprops to maxx power for that extreimley long and grea exlplantion even if i didnt agree with everything

[thegirth]

i agree with maxx, it is the best explanation ever

[Garnie]

aeris and cloud should have been together! i like AEris shes pretty and tifas a cow.