Why is FFVI considered the best? (SPOILER WARNING) [Archive]

Frostwake

02-05-2007, 06:21 PM

Bunny

02-05-2007, 07:02 PM

I think you were looking for this (http://forums.eyesonff.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8) forum.

It should be noted that while Final Fantasy VI is an incredibly easy game by any standards, the Final Fantasy series as a whole is a joke when it comes to difficulty. I have never had a problem with any of them. Then again, when it comes to RPGs, I am something of a God.

Also I found this tidbit to be hilarious:

Fifth, the plot, to FF standards, sucks! Sure, its better than the plot from FF 1 :rolleyes2 but other than that... its 100% predictable and ... whats up with the part at thamasa when Kefka suddenly comes in and starts killing espers left and right? So he suddenly went from a random dude to some invincible killing machine? Lame

If you didn't see Kefka becoming the main villian, then it was not 100% predictable, now was it? Silly poster.

I could go on and on, countering every single point you made and telling you how incredibly wrong you are. But really, it won't help. Just like Final Fantasy VII, you will either like it or hate it. There is no middle ground. This is a war waged since the beginning of time. It will continue after I am dead.

Jowy

02-05-2007, 07:09 PM

The only acceptable argument about FFVI sucking is edczxcvbnm's. Sorry, go sit in the car.

XxSephirothxX

02-05-2007, 07:13 PM

I think it's something about unprecedented quality in the series, deeper characters, better writing...

Seriously, did you really play the other games? The amount of depth in both the characters in the plot far exceeds what's in FFIV and V, let alone the older games. Because I don't see how you can play a game with a villain like X-Death and then think Kefka is poorly done. :p

Omega Sephiroth

02-05-2007, 07:15 PM

FF7.
Cool characters.
Great in-depth story.
Great character history and development.
Many characters.
Very touching story.
To easy.
The graphics and controls are terrible...look like building blocks.

FF6:
Nice story.
Tina/lock are the only characters to have a back history.
FF3 HIGHLY censored (Good thing I know Japanese)
Top easy....Ruby weapon was a decent challenge.
Fantastic villain with a history and a screwed up mind...(Kefker was just a clown to me)
Loved the stage show....Japanese was a bit more...past tense like.
Shadow and Relm....history very well done...for its time.
Nice smooth graphics and perfect for its time.
............................................................................................
FF7 and FF6 are both the same to me, both have there up and downs but still, both great to play.

Anyway, this is my opinion and you may see it different but please remember nothing you say or I say will make any difference in the way we think.

Bunny

02-05-2007, 07:18 PM

Tina/lock is the only characters to have a back history.

Fantastic villain with a history and a screwed up mind...(Kefker was just a clown to me)
Shadow and Relm....history very well done...for its time.

How does this work?

Jowy

02-05-2007, 07:22 PM

LOL FFVII

Also, Kefka was an amazing villian. Sephiroth just hung out in a crystal and talked about his mommy.

Omega Sephiroth

02-05-2007, 07:23 PM

Flying Mullet

02-05-2007, 07:31 PM

Alright, I'll bite...

First FFVI IS A JOKE when it comes to difficulty.. I kept waiting for the moment something would actually challenge me, WITHOUT EVER stopping to level.. And Im not that good of a player or anything, its just that character damage in this game is WAY TOO HIGH...
At the start you have Edgar's Auto crossbow which paired with atlas armlet obliterates anything... a little later you get flash.. not to mention on how overpowered Gau is when you have all the useful rages..
Then you get Spells lvl 2 (fire, ice, bolt) etc.. I remember when I reached Atma at the floating continent... I thought "hey a WEAPON, this should be tough" what a joke! morphed terra + bolt 2 = 5 K damage every turn at lvl 20...who needs vanish + doom tricks when the game is so easy anyway?
I like the fact that you can focus on the story and exploration aspect without having to micro-manage your characters to ensure that you will survive the next battle. With so many games out there where you have to level grind to survive to the next area, this game was/is a breath of fresh air.

Second, the game as way too many playable characters, and you could say "the more the better because there will always be someone who pleases you" but I hate it, its just messy.. you never have time to explore a character deeply, because as soon as youre getting attached to that character, 2 more come in and your loved one gets removed out of the party.. ugh..
I like the fact that this game doesn't spoon-feed you everything about a character, ala FFVII and FFVIII. I enjoy that I can use my imagination to fill in any holes in each character's back story and personality. It makes them more personable and it gives them more of an emotional attachment, rather than games like FFVII and FFVIII where everything is laid out in black-and-white and numbs you with too much detail.

Third, whats with every character having equal stats and being able to share most equipment? So many characters and nothing to make them special.. except for...
Why is this bad? Half of the games in the FF series have very little differentiation in character stats. And not all characters can share equipment. There is a lot of unique equipment or equipment that is only usable by two or three characters. Anyways, I don't see how this makes for a bad game.

Fourth, SKILLS... did anyone notice you can and probably WILL go through the whole game without using the "fight" command once? Except for the very beginning with Terra of course.. Since every character has magic and magic is much more powerful until very late in the game (and ultima still owns then)... WHY are skills free? Edgar, Cyan and Sabin will NEVER use the fight command, because they can just spam whatever skill you want to without mp charge or anything.. its broken
So you didn't use "Fight", so why is that bad? Just because you never use the Fight command doesn't make it a bad game. I rarely use the Item command in battle in 99% of FF's, yet I don't hold that against the games. FFVI's battle system is set up a little differently that others, and it's refreshing, not lame. :smash:

Fifth, the plot, to FF standards, sucks! Sure, its better than the plot from FF 1 :rolleyes2 but other than that... its 100% predictable and ... whats up with the part at thamasa when Kefka suddenly comes in and starts killing espers left and right? So he suddenly went from a random dude to some invincible killing machine? Lame
FFVI's plot excels for two major reasons:
- NO PLOTHOLES. Unlike later FF's, there is no confusion at to what is going on. Yes, it might be somewhat simplistic, but that doesn't make for a bad game. I'd rather play a game with a simplistic plot over a convoluted one with several plotholes anytime.
- It's an opera. I don't remember who pointed it out at this forum recently, but FFVI is styled after an opera. Obviously the opera scene makes sense, but when you look at the game from the standpoint of being a broadway production or an opera, it becomes that much more enjoyable.

And to summarize, it appears that you either weren't paying attention when you played through the game or were looking for reasons to hate the game because all of your reasons to hate FFVI can be applied to any of the games in the FF series, including 9, which makes them generalizations of the FF series in general, and not FFVI specifically.

Omega Sephiroth

02-05-2007, 07:37 PM

Final Fantasy 9 was in my eyes and mine alone. TO KIDDY AND BABYISH.

Bunny

02-05-2007, 07:40 PM

That came off the top of my head... I never double check what I post.

So expect mistakes like that from me.

Oh and thanks for taking the time to read such a long post and ACTUALLY NOTICE AN ERROR LIKE THAT!

Didn't your teacher ever tell you to double check your work? Boooooooy howdy. Sabin, Edgar, Locke, Celes, Setzer, Shadow, Relm, Strago, Terra, Cyan, General Leo, and Kefka all have backstories to their characters. They may not be MASSIVELY in-depth, but they are in-depth enough that they shouldn't really bother any person at all ever. Hey look. The cast has all been named (with the exception of Mog, Umaro and Gogo). Gogo has an unknown past which I loved.

Flying Mullet said it better, and in less words, than what I was going to say.

Zeromus

02-05-2007, 08:50 PM

Difficulty is important in a game... and yeah... really important... but it's not the only thing u have to wait of a game...
And FF6 is so easy!... u are ok on that!... is very very easy... but that doesn't mean it can't be good or maybe the best!

FF6 has (in my opinnion, and the opinnion of lots of people) the best Storyline ever! in a FF, and maybe in a RPG... Just compared sometimes to games like Chrono Trigger (wich i'm sure there are people who has played it here)...
FF6, also has an almost-non-linear storyline, in the SNES and other plataforms at that time there were just few games with the non-linear storyline, i can remember Chrono Trigger and Tales of Phantasia, for example... and for an FF, it was something new... u can see all the FFs before FF6, and u'll note that all they were in one line that u had to follow... u really had to follow it, not much things to do appart of the whole line from beggining to end!
About graphics... FF6 has the better graphics for an FF at the time... it's one of the better graphics of all the RPGs at the time (maybe just beaten by the Secret of the Rudras (wich was released only in japan) and Chrono Trigger...)... Besides!... Between not just FFs or RPGs, but all the SNES games, ff6 is one of the best graphics ever at the time it was released!...
The art by Yosh1taka Amano is surely great on every FF, but here u can appreciate some great designs like the final battle one, the Goddess, Poltergeist and Doom one, and others... Surely, on of the best yosh1taka arts for an FF.
If anyone who plays RPGs can say he/she have felt identified with a character of any of all the games he have played, u can know that the biggest probability is that he/she will say the name of one of the characters of FF6!... that's a fact... u can take a day to navigate in forums around all the whole net to see that is a fact...
Kefka, is considered the most charismatic villain/final-boss in a FF, and by lot of people, the most charismatic final boss ever!
Lines like "Uweeee he he he!" and "Son of a Submariner!" are recorded like legendary quotes in the mind of almost everyone who have played the games, and lots of them have included them on their daily speech...
So, the whole characters design is a great work beating lots of works on movies and cartoons. A great place for a game in the 90's, when games was starting to be something more than pixelated mechanics movements...
The sound of FF6 is considered the best or one of the best sounds of a SNES game, and is between the best of all the story of the games. One recognized masterpiece is the Opera of María and Draco, recognized in the clasic music environment like it wasn't game music, besides lots of more music of the game too...
At the time... (in that epoch!) FF6 was a great object of innovation in the industry of videogames, it was guiding Final Fantasy to a highest level of gaming... lots of new thing u could do in the games! ...like for example having all the characters you were getting during the game at ur disposition there in the airship... no more changin characters just because the story said so, and no more loosing the other character by changing him... now u could choose the one u like it most and play with him when u wanted to, and changing him whenever u wanted to! ...another example: This is the first FF with movement combinations for a character, yeah i'm talking about Sabin blitzs... this is surely a great novelty! ...i can't remember well this part, but if i'm not wrong, it was the first RPG with this characteristic... isn't i t??? ...and with all the relics and equipment that u could get, u really could create lots of different personalities to ur characters of the party, maybe better than the jobs system!...
About the programming script, u can see that is better than the older FFs ones, the battle system and the status calculation is also made better, and u can see a considerable little weight for a file of a so great graphics and so long game. Then u can imagine the optimization of the algorithms in general. If u can't see that looking at the game, u can download specialized algorithms files of FF6 from the internet, and compare them with the older games.

I could be talking about this for a lot of time... there are lots of great reasons to say Final Fanatasy 6 is the best or one of the best games ever!... maybe, u just could stop playing automathicaly or mechanicaly and start to see and appreciate games like the ART pieces that they really are.
FF6 is one of the biggest marterpieces on his genre (the Games Art genre)... A masterpiece in sound/music, in graphic art, in character and story design, in programming, and in development.

!!

PS: Of course that i say FF6 is so great how i said, that doesn't mean that i'm underestimating the other games, all games are great... and... we are so away of the time when games were just a computer program (70's and part of the 80's they were just some piece of programing code), now they are really art.

-------

Edit: "Why do you build knowing destruction is inevitable...???
Why do you yearn live knowing all things must die???"
This game is philosophicaly a piece of art too!... just look at the Atma speech, and the Kefka words at the beggining of the final battle...
Some concepts of this game really reminds me of Kafka (of course!)... and reminds me about Nietzsche too...

PuPu

02-05-2007, 09:08 PM

Your argument is very weak. Every game has flaws, and the flaws that you pointed out, (the ones that are actually correct based on facts) there aren't enough or the aren't major enough to actually make a big difference in how great the game is.

For example, you're right, it is a little too easy, but it doesn't make it that bad. And yes, there were a lot of characters, but they all did have points in the game and back stories to them, excluding Umaro.

The only thing I really see in your argument that would make a huge difference on the greatness of the game would be storyline and plot. Predictability is something unavoidable; in almost every story, there will be at least one part that you could probably predict, most likely not 100% like you said. And by the way, Kefka was totally not a "random dude." You saw him in many parts of the story even before he became the main villain. Unless you have some other definition for "random dude." After all, everyone who joins your party are all "random dudes" as well. You pretty much said almost nothing about the story except it being predictable in some parts.

Honestly, go back and replay FFVI again, and come up with a better argument.

Bunny

02-05-2007, 09:11 PM

- It's an opera. I don't remember who pointed it out at this forum recently, but FFVI is styled after an opera. Obviously the opera scene makes sense, but when you look at the game from the standpoint of being a broadway production or an opera, it becomes that much more enjoyable.

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showpost.php?p=2008911&postcount=6

;)

I actually never thought about it like that while playing the game. It makes me appreciate the game even more, because that is very different from the other RPGs I have played.

silentenigma

02-05-2007, 10:35 PM

I recently replayed FFVI and Im gonna have to go against the tide and say its one of the worse FFs out of the first 9

You do that. I'll just sit here and think about all the revolutionary aspects of FFVI.

Goldenboko

02-05-2007, 10:36 PM

1 - Too easy

Please don't tell me you found it easier then FFVIII, that game can be beaten by a monkey. In this game it was necassary to try a bit.

2 and 3 - Too many (useless and pointless) characters
Most of the characters have very well done backstories, if you are willing to give the game a chance you'd see that.

4 - Broken skills
I don't totally understand what you ment here. I think you were trying to say that the fight command was pointless. I would like to point out that is wrong, build up a characters strength, give him Atma Weapon and the Ragnarok, have his relics be Offering and Genji Glove, have him use Quick on his first turn and, well, you attack 16 times in a row and instantly kill any enemy in the game.

5 - Mediocre plot and worse excuse for a villain ever
Well for the most part something like this is an opinion. But if you are looking at the facts...
A. Most characters in the game have an extensive backstory and develop as characters, (I.E. Locke, you find about his backstory, and how he loved whatsherface, you can see that dictate his current actions, and how he develops and overcomes his past love)
B. The villian is very well done. He has a backstory which coexists with the game well, he acomplishes alot throught the game and yeah.

And where are the monster HP super bosses? Right, there arent any
Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard.... IN THE FIRST 6 GAMES THERE WHERE NO HP SUPER BOSSES!!!!!!! Back then the made the bosses difficult without needing 90 bigilion HP, why? Because they actually made it so your characters weren't gods (unless you were smart of course). Ruby Weapon, Emerald Weapon, Omega Weapon, and Nemesis are all tributes to how awful the boss concepts where in 7,8, and 10. The characters became too strong too easily and the only way the could combat that was making the enemy bosses have redicoulusly stupid HP stats (Not to mention they where all incredibly easy.)

Zeromus

02-05-2007, 10:58 PM

I forgot to say in my post that there is a lot of deep meaning in the concept of the game:
"Why do you build knowing destruction is inevitable...???
Why do you yearn live knowing all things must die???"

5 - Mediocre plot and worse excuse for a villain ever
If u think Kefka is mediocre and a bad excuse of a villain, maybe u should really take the time to analize... =/ ...plz, don't take it like an offense, i try to not do it... but all about his personality is very well justified in the game, and the lines he says at the final battle makes u really understand the real meaning of his character... he is supossed to be based on the well known writer called Kafka, and if u read him, u know what i'm talking about...
Also, lots of Nietzsche ideas can be found if u analize it more deep... and i'm sure u can find more interesting thoughts if u take the time...

Atma has a deep concept too... this game is philosophicaly a piece of art too!!!

Are u really sure u already played the game??? o_O!!!
lol... what a things sometimes we have to read!

Wolf Kanno

02-05-2007, 11:52 PM

Warning long post...

First FFVI IS A JOKE when it comes to difficulty.. I kept waiting for the moment something would actually challenge me, WITHOUT EVER stopping to level.. And Im not that good of a player or anything, its just that character damage in this game is WAY TOO HIGH...
At the start you have Edgar's Auto crossbow which paired with atlas armlet obliterates anything... a little later you get flash.. not to mention on how overpowered Gau is when you have all the useful rages..
Then you get Spells lvl 2 (fire, ice, bolt) etc.. I remember when I reached Atma at the floating continent... I thought "hey a WEAPON, this should be tough" what a joke! morphed terra + bolt 2 = 5 K damage every turn at lvl 20...who needs vanish + doom tricks when the game is so easy anyway?

Name me one FF that isn't easier than dirt after you figure out how to use everything? If you want challenge, you're in the wrong genre. Even the uber bosses in the FF series have simple and effective strategies to beat them.

Second, the game as way too many playable characters, and you could say "the more the better because there will always be someone who pleases you" but I hate it, its just messy.. you never have time to explore a character deeply, because as soon as youre getting attached to that character, 2 more come in and your loved one gets removed out of the party.. ugh..

This is a ridiculous argument... How about actually having to build strategies and personal playing styles? How about the fact that the cast actually brings something to the story? How about exploring the world and using the characters leasurly instead of haphazardly changing your party around to rush through the story? How about the wonderful 3 team battles that require you to use all of them? I think Zeromus argued this point nicely.

Third, whats with every character having equal stats and being able to share most equipment? So many characters and nothing to make them special.. except for...
Their stats are not equal, their is a subtle difference in everyone. How about the fact that the esper system allows you to modify their stasts so they don't seem like clones?

Fourth, SKILLS... did anyone notice you can and probably WILL go through the whole game without using the "fight" command once? Except for the very beginning with Terra of course.. Since every character has magic and magic is much more powerful until very late in the game (and ultima still owns then)... WHY are skills free? Edgar, Cyan and Sabin will NEVER use the fight command, because they can just spam whatever skill you want to without mp charge or anything.. its broken

Another ridiculous argument:rolleyes2 Now I may agree that some skills are cheap and broken, but you know what? DON'T USE THEM! Is that so difficult? And who misses the Fight command anyway? Play FFII or FFVIII if you want to use the fight command alot, build a party of Knights in FFI, FFIII, and FFV if you want to use the fight command so badly. Why not let everyone actually attack and not bother using skills and magic in FFIV, FFVII, and FFVI? Also, you DON'T HAVE TO TEACH MAGIC TO EVERYONE. It's purely optional.

Fifth, the plot, to FF standards, sucks! Sure, its better than the plot from FF 1 :rolleyes2 but other than that... its 100% predictable and ... whats up with the part at thamasa when Kefka suddenly comes in and starts killing espers left and right? So he suddenly went from a random dude to some invincible killing machine? Lame

What FF standards? You mean the ones FFVI built back in the day? Yes it's predictable at times but most of the plots are. Only V andf VIII don't have predicatable plots and that is because their stories are randomly told and lack cohesion. Flying Mullet mentioned the fact that later FF's have plotholes which are glaringly obvious. and the earlier FF's plot are basic and lack any depth.

Also, since when have FF's had deep character backstories? Cloud and Sqaull maybe but everyone else in their games are two dimensional compared to them. I also bring up what Flying Mullet said about their being major plotholes in their stories. FFVI was the first game to bring forth elaborate back stories on most of their characters. I don't think anyone cared about Umaro, and Gogo was a wink to FFV.

Ultimately it comes down to personal taste. I personally saw the beauty of this game, it's rich story about hope and finding yourself. I love it's operatic feel and beautiful music and world. I like the fact that it's not always serious or thinks highly of itself (that's what fanboys are for) in it's telling of it's story. It's cast is quite possibly the greatest cast ever assembled in an rpg and Kefka has a greater depth to him than most people give him credit for.

silentenigma

02-06-2007, 12:46 AM

Crossblades

02-06-2007, 12:55 AM

Aqua Mage

02-06-2007, 12:57 AM

Fifth, the plot, to FF standards, sucks! Sure, its better than the plot from FF 1 :rolleyes2 but other than that... its 100% predictable and ... whats up with the part at thamasa when Kefka suddenly comes in and starts killing espers left and right? So he suddenly went from a random dude to some invincible killing machine? Lame

DON'T CALL MY KEFKA LAME! :cry::cry::cry:
Of course you're entitled to your own opinion. But if you think that the FFVI storyline is crap.. you must have been dropped when you were a baby.

Siegfried

02-06-2007, 05:06 AM

And you , my new friend, have just been bashed by every hardcore FF6 fan in the forums...excpet maybe me...

You suck for this, go back to the emo games, not the uplifting ones...

Stratch the first thing I said now....Cuz now you have...

Takara

02-06-2007, 05:10 AM

Heh, you want a random villain dude? Look at Ultimecia. kthxbye

NeoCracker

02-06-2007, 05:21 AM

Hating FF VI is one thing. But hating because you don't pay any attention whatsoever to the game is another. Every character, minus a couple, have great backtories. And the only hard FF's were FF IV hard Version, and FF Tactics. FF V had teh Crystal Gaurdians, but that was it.

REally if you want hard games go play something else, as no FF is really hard compared to other games.

Frostwake

02-06-2007, 09:13 AM

wait a minute, Frostwake, have you even played FF III,IV, and V? I'm sure you've played II because it always comes with FFI. I wouldn't ask this if I didn't think that you would love FFVI after comparing it to the preceding installments. All you are doing is comparing it to FFVII and FFVIII.

Woah lots of angry replies here today :P so Im gonna try to cover most replies here...

Well since I said "out of the first 9" it obviously means I played all of them! And let me tell you that FF I and FF V are up there as my favourites when it comes to "classic" FFs... FF I might have the most basic plot, but the gameplay is awesome and its probably the hardest FF, unless youre playing DOS

FFV has the job system and that about covers anything wrong with the game :) And I agree, X-Death is as bad of a villain as Kefka, "I want to get the power of the void to be all powerful" but at least he didnt laugh like a maniac :P

You see, some people like those kinds of brainless villains, I dont, I prefer 100 Sephiroths or Ultimecias than Kefka anyday, and as a note, Kuja was also a nice villain

Funny that people are saying "FFVI started it all" ugh.. No, FF VII started it all when it comes to amazing storytelling and deep characters + unexpected plot twists
If you go that way, FF II was the first to advance the plot :) About the only unexpected thing in FF VI is Terra being an esper, in FF II it turns out that the Dark Knight was Lionheart... Thats pretty much the same formula, so stop crediting FF VI

Now some things that are personal taste, FF VI has possibly one of the best theme tracks ever (Terra) but overall the music lacks the magic of other FFs, specially the battle theme.. Not only that but I think FF V has better graphics, when it comes to summons even more so... But thats not a "game sucks because of that" point

About the POS-FFVII superbosses with millions of HP, its natural since you can deal much more than 9999 every round, but FF V has awesome and HARD AS HELL bosses if you dont use cheap tactics (Omega and Shinryu obviously) and they dont top the 60 K hp barrier.. They dont need to, because you will do so little damage/spend rounds healing that 50 k seems like forever... Problem with FF VI is, as I said before, character damage is through the roof, and removes any challenge that might have been there

And how funny it is that FF VI lovers are also FF VII and VIII haters? Did it hurt much that square started to make 3d games and actually advanced the plot? If I forgot to cover some points remind me later :P

NeoCracker

02-06-2007, 09:31 AM

You haven't commented on everyones KEfka thing. As Kefka was clearly no a random dude at all.

The Character Depth counters. The second half of the game is all about learning characters stories.

Really our problem isn't that you hate it, but that you don't even seem to have payed any attention at all.

And all the bosses you listed I could beat without cheap stratagies without much of a problem.

On note of Graphics, FF VI Graphics are without a dought superior, you just happen to preffer v's. Like I prefer Chrono Triggers to FF VII's blocky looking forms.

Also, I'm one of those haters. Mostly FF VIII. I liked FF VII, but I just go with Jenova was in control over Sephiroth. If it really is Sephiroth as the Ultimania Guide supposable says, then thats just plain lame.

Aqua Mage

02-06-2007, 09:41 AM

In response to:

And how funny it is that FF VI lovers are also FF VII and VIII haters? Did it hurt much that square started to make 3d games and actually advanced the plot? If I forgot to cover some points remind me later :P

LE GASPETH! Personally, the only final fantasy I dislike is Final Fantasy IV. To me, good graphics are not essential for a final fantasy game to be good. I fell in love with FFVI in the first 5 minutes of it.
I'm just going to leave my opinion as:

Every Final Fantasy has its pros and cons and it just comes down to what sort of personality you have... kupo!

Wolf Kanno

02-06-2007, 10:43 AM

FFV has the job system and that about covers anything wrong with the game :)

No it doesn't, cause gameplay is only half of what an RPG is and I'm sorry to say that FFV fails as a story. Gameplay-wise, I won't argue that FFV is damn fun but it's plot lacks cohesion and Reina and Krile are basically the same person. The game comes off really random and we get poor explanations as to why.

No, FF VII started it all when it comes to shoddy storytelling and poorly written characters + pointless plot twists

Sorry, I had to fix it for you:D Seriously, the later games have some terrible writing.

If you go that way, FF II was the first to advance the plot :) About the only unexpected thing in FF VI is Terra being an esper, in FF II it turns out that the Dark Knight was Lionheart... Thats pretty much the same formula, so stop crediting FF VI

Cecil being a Lunarian would have been a more accurate comparison but to each their own I guess.

But what about the whole World of Ruin? When did it occur to you that halfway through the game, the world was going to be destroyed and you would have to play in the apocolyptic aftermath of it? You already admitted that "random dude" Kefka becoming the main villain was a bit of a surprise.

About the POS-FFVII superbosses with millions of HP, its natural since you can deal much more than 9999 every round, but FF V has awesome and HARD AS HELL bosses if you dont use cheap tactics (Omega and Shinryu obviously) and they dont top the 60 K hp barrier.. They dont need to, because you will do so little damage/spend rounds healing that 50 k seems like forever... Problem with FF VI is, as I said before, character damage is through the roof, and removes any challenge that might have been there

I never found FFV challenging. I waltzed through that game without a guide and everything. Sure Gogo was a bit tricky and Omega kicked my ass the first time we met, but I still never found the game incredibly challenging. Perhaps we have a different opinion of challenge? Also, FFVI's character damage is not nearly as broken as FFVII, FFVIII, and FFXs.

And how funny it is that FF VI lovers are also FF VII and VIII haters? Did it hurt much that square started to make 3d games and actually advanced the plot?

No, I'm personally hurt by the fact that Square started to make poorly written trite. They have cutscenes to wow the player so they will forget the bad writing and half assed character development. Let us not forget pointless stupid plot twists that serve no purpose rather than to trick the player into believing the game is deeper and more intellectual than it really is. No that's why I'm pissed off by the newer titles...

ljkkjlcm9

02-06-2007, 12:00 PM

I think it's hilarious that you call Kefka a "brainless" villian when he was smart enough to trick the emperor, and kill him, trick Leo, and kill him, trick everyone basically, and destroy the world. Then sit there ruling over it. While you prefer Sephiroth, who was just doing exactly what Jenova wanted... talk about brainless.

As everyone has said, no FF game is particularly hard. I honestly can't believe you said FFI was hard. Especially the hardest FF. FFIII was hard in the same way that game was hard, you have to level grind to get anywhere at certain points. That's not hard, it's just time consuming. And if you're good, you don't even have to level grind. How can FFI be hard when I was 4 playing with two brothers, 6 and 7, and my mom watching us, and we beat it. Seriously now....

FFVII did not start amazing story telling. If you seriously think that, you didn't pay attention to this game at all. FFVI definitely had the best graphics of the generation, that's just a fact considering it used more of the power of the SNES. Maybe you prefer the graphics of FFV, but FFVI are graphically superior. Also, FFVI has some of the most memorable pieces of music, namely, the Opera.

Sigh, I'd also like to point out, that I do not hate FFVII or FFVIII. In fact I did not hate the character development or story of either. I've been called a Squall fanboy for sticking up for his character, so don't even try that crap on me. I do think FFVII is overrated, but not a bad game in any sense. You can think FFVI is overrated, but what you're saying is that it's crap, and that's just absurd. Especially considering your arguments don't even make sense if you've actually played the game. Plus, you contradicted yourself.

THE JACKEL

sephirothishere

02-06-2007, 12:47 PM

it is rather easy yes....but there havent been many points where i have been like....BORRRIIINNNNGGG!!!!....as i did with ff7 and 8....ther characters are cool....how many are there?!like 11?!thats not that many....this game sure beats the hell outta ff7....it has some emotion i guess...but in terms of ridiculously hard bosses there are none no...or ridiculously hard dungeons.... a la ToP and DQ...but it sure beats the hell outta ff7....so stop being a fanboy....and uh...

i think what you said about kefka is kinda void.....

Bunny

02-06-2007, 12:56 PM

Frostwake

02-06-2007, 01:45 PM

FF I might have the most basic plot, but the gameplay is awesome and its probably the hardest FF, unless youre playing DOS

Fifth, the plot, to FF standards, sucks! Sure, its better than the plot from FF 1

You fail and you do in the most miserable way that it isn't even funny. It really is pointless to respond to your arguments any further because you've already proven that you don't know what you are talking about.

Actually, YOU failed to understand... If you read carefully, I say the FF I plot lacks in BOTH quotes.. its barely even there actually.. 4 light warriors save the world yay... BUT the thing is the gameplay more than makes up for it, while I didnt find the FF VI gameplay to be one bit fun, and so it carries on to the story to make up for it, since I didnt like it either, there you have it

Bunny

02-06-2007, 02:48 PM

Final Fantasy VI is, according to you, the "one of the worst" Final Fantasy games, you cite your reasons for this. In the very same post, you say the storyline is better than Final Fantasy I. This makes absolutely no sense unless you are the type of person who does not play RPGs for their storyline. You state that Final Fantasy VI has a plot that is "100% predictable" and then go on to ask how Kefka became the main villian when there were clear signs that he was going to play a very important role in the story. Are you going to address this at all or simply ignore it, hoping everyone forgets how ignorant the statement was in the first place?

My gripe with your post is you are saying the gameplay for Final Fantasy I more than makes up for its lack of story. Yet the story in Final Fantasy VI, which by your own admittance is far exceeding the original Final Fantasy, does not make up for its lack of gameplay. You are condemning Final Fantasy VI because it lacks something one of your favorite Final Fantasy games has and has something one of your favorite Final Fantasy games lacks.

ljkkjlcm9

02-06-2007, 03:36 PM

I don't understand how FFI had amazing gameplay to make up for lack of story. If you were not a mage, all you did was fight. And if you were a mage, you had... 5 casts of a spell then you had to fight doing no damage. Gameplay wise, there was no diversity in FFI. Not that it wasn't fun for an old school game, but how can that simple, with no real choices gameplay, make up for a non existent story, while FFVI, with character customization with espers, relics, special equipment, and special moves making themm all unique, not make up for a supposed "bad" story of FFVI, which is still superior to FFI. I can't say I've honestly heard ANYONE say that FFI had better gameplay than any later FF. It by far had the worst gameplay of the series, because there really were no options. Of course that changed immediately with FFII.

THE JACKEL

Christmas

02-06-2007, 03:36 PM

FF VI is leet because of the purple naked lady. :bigsmile:

Zeromus

02-06-2007, 04:16 PM

FFV has the job system and that about covers anything wrong with the game :) And I agree, X-Death is as bad of a villain as Kefka, "I want to get the power of the void to be all powerful" but at least he didnt laugh like a maniac :P
Oh... how stupid!... is it important the way u laugh???... or u laugh like a symphonic orquesta to say that Kefka shouldn't laugh that way???... what a stupid thing... that doesn't matter, and anyway, is well justified on the game...

You see, some people like those kinds of brainless villains, I dont, I prefer 100 Sephiroths or Ultimecias than Kefka anyday, and as a note, Kuja was also a nice villain
Oh... plz... u really know how to read???... if u do... plz, could u read the lines of the game???... i have to tell u that FF games has some blue boxes (if didn't changed the color)... those blue boxes are text boxes... yeah... those text boxes have (guess what!)... TEXT... yeah!... now, u go like a good boy, and play the game again... but this time, u read the text boxes i told u... ok??? =)
Lol... u write stupid things, u get stupid answer...
but ok... now, seriously, PLZ READ!!!... if u know how to read!!!...
Could u call brainless Kafka, and Nietzsche, and people like that???...
Then read my post if u didn't... there is something behind Kefka that u didn't understood... there is great part of the concept of the game!!!... Philosophy!... that is not brainless, if u know what it is... (u could look at a dictionary or Asking google...)
Really, i think u are the kind of "player" (lol, "player") who plays RPG games skipping all the text cuz u find it boring and only play mechanicaly the battles, and then u say "Ehem, i play RPGs and i have played all FFs"...
U said what a poor excuse of a villain about Kefka, i say what a poor excuse of a player, about u...
That's the only way i can understand that u find FF6 almost the worst and FF1 almost the best... ¬¬' (it's not about personal vision, it's about common sense)...

Sorry... if now i have been some offensive, i really didn't want to, but i got angry cuz i wrote u a long-long-long post and u didn't read it...!

Funny that people are saying "FFVI started it all" ugh.. No, FF VII started it all when it comes to amazing storytelling and deep characters + unexpected plot twists
If you go that way, FF II was the first to advance the plot :) About the only unexpected thing in FF VI is Terra being an esper, in FF II it turns out that the Dark Knight was Lionheart... Thats pretty much the same formula, so stop crediting FF VI
Lol... this one is really funny! xD...
How can u say FFVII started it all...??? didn't u read what i posted before???... really don't make me write all that again... my fingers are kinda exhausted... xD
I'll tell u just this right now, u have to evaluate thinking on the aspects that surrounded the game at the time it was released...
I told u all those things that were innovation when in the SNES age FF6 appeared (wait wait!... did u played the FFs from the SNES or u just played the PSX versions???... don't tell me... are u one of those shallow minded little teenagers who only play play station games and don't have any idea than most of the games they play were first released by Nintendo???... lol xD)... anyways... when FF6 was released, the games that were on the SNES catalog were saying WoW! (not World of Warcraft, lol no xD...)... they were saying wow!... impressed by the innovation and the great graphics and music and all those things this game had... When FF7 was released, there were just lots of other games with better and worst graphics, there were lots of 3D games, and there were lots of RPGs with non-linear storylines, et-cétera...
FF6 used at the highest the power of the SNES, while FF7 could have use more power of the PS...
And hey!... i prefer 8368236487324 times a 2D game with graphic enhancement that can look almost perfect... than a 3D game with poor repetitive tiles of an ambient and square looking sprites... or blocky, like someone said before...
So don't tell me FF7 started it all...
FF1 started it all about FFs, and FF6 started it all about innovation and taking FF to other places...

About the POS-FFVII superbosses with millions of HP, its natural since you can deal much more than 9999 every round, but FF V has awesome and HARD AS HELL bosses if you dont use cheap tactics (Omega and Shinryu obviously) and they dont top the 60 K hp barrier.. They dont need to, because you will do so little damage/spend rounds healing that 50 k seems like forever... Problem with FF VI is, as I said before, character damage is through the roof, and removes any challenge that might have been there
U are exagerating here... it's ok... we all know is easy... u are not telling us the great new!... but don't underestimate it so much, u have to think that it's ok, enemies receive lots of damage, u make a lot of damage, and enemies have high HPs... but don't forget that according with that there are enemies who make lots damage too... c'mon!, u can't say u never died when u played it (if u really played it)... u can't say that never got killed by a Brachosaur bite or by one of those Ninjas who threw lots of Ashura, Murasame, and those... u can't say u didn't die in the Fanatics tower and said some bad words againts Magimaster, u can't say u didn't spent a night (or a long time) putting the hour at the clock on Zozo, and asking so much people to clews for that... unless u were playing with a guide... what would have been really pathetic...

And how funny it is that FF VI lovers are also FF VII and VIII haters? Did it hurt much that square started to make 3d games and actually advanced the plot? If I forgot to cover some points remind me later :P
That is kinda personal, but i don't hate those games. I just think they are to shallow, with poor stories. I think the people at Square today forget the deep concept and great story that a RPG have to tell us, by trying to make great graphics and great movies that would make u think u are playing a great game... and of course, i have a personal little despise to those ignorant emo shallow minded little teenagers who says Playstation is the only console and don't have any idea about the existence of Nintendo and Atari and old systems, and the games that were first from those systems... they say Nintendo is just for little kids and then fell all grown when they say it, but they don't know the most of the games they play are remakes or sequels from Nintendo (and other old systems) games... ok... it's ok, they aren't from the Atari, NES and SNES age, but that doesn't mean they don't have to respect and accept the pixelated elders... I hope u aren't one of these...

Oh!... another thing!...
U contradicted when u said Kefka=random villain, and then said that all was predictible... ¬¬'
I really think u don't have good reasons...

Maybe u just came here for ur 15 minutes of fame trying to make a thread that would receive lot of posts... ¬¬'
:nonono:

PS:Sorry if i'm offending someone... I try to not do it...

silentenigma

02-06-2007, 08:11 PM

Oh my this arguement is a mess...

And how funny it is that FF VI lovers are also FF VII and VIII haters?

FFVI and FFVII are my two favorites, and you can't deny that everything about FFVIII, by FF standards, sucks!

I'm not going to try and change your oppinions, but just hear me out on this:

Your logic is very confusing:

Your first arguement is that FFVI's storyline sucks.

It is impossible to compare FFV with FFVI and not see the giant leap ahead that Square took with FFVI. It was the first to have a cinematic storyline and focus on the characters more than on gameplay. The story was ten times better and more believeable than FFV's. (By saying it was believeable I'm mean that it moved much more smoothly.) The characters were much further developed and interacted with each other more than ever before. And you can't say that FFVI was predictable either.
Now FFV was predictable, aside from the "omg there's two worlds" thing. It's just predictable that everything will go wrong for the 4 warriors until the villian gets all-powerful and they manage to kill him. (I'm not saying that FFV is bad, but that's just the way it is.)

Faced with this response, your second arguement is that FFVI "isn't hard enough"

Well Just like FFVI, your beloved FFVII is super super easy. FFVII isn't the only game with difficult optional bosses, pal. FFVI has the 8 dragons, whatever that beast is that you unlock by beating them (I never did but...), doomgaze, the Weapon at Kefka's tower... Although these may not be as difficult as the ones from FFVII, there are plenty of them.

So if you still are not satisfied, you can't blame it on FFVI. You can just blame it on your love for level-grinding over story. or worse.

Goldenboko

02-06-2007, 10:40 PM

Mirage

02-06-2007, 11:00 PM

I have problems understanding how anyone can actually like FF1's gameplay. It was like mental torture to me, I only played the game because it is the original FF.

Momiji

02-06-2007, 11:14 PM

Heh, you want a random villain dude? Look at Ultimecia. kthxbye

Or Necron. He was more random than Ultimecia.

Moon Rabbits

02-06-2007, 11:16 PM

I have problems understanding how anyone can actually like FF1's gameplay. It was like mental torture to me, I only played the game because it is the original FF.

Yep. Certain aspects were good, but dear god it was slow and torturous.

Takara

02-07-2007, 01:10 AM

Heh, you want a random villain dude? Look at Ultimecia. kthxbye

Or Necron. He was more random than Ultimecia.

Years of therapy gone to waste. I was successful at not remembering that stain on FFIX's otherwise spotless awesomeness until now.:cry:

Siegfried

02-07-2007, 05:03 AM

Is this you??? Seriously, is it?
http://they.misled.us/archives/318
Sounds like you

Kenshin IV

02-07-2007, 05:49 AM

I love how the main two people arguing here each bashed the two best games in the series in Six and Seven. Such worthwile opinions we have here.

Where's that retard running picture when I need it?

Wolf Kanno

02-07-2007, 06:33 AM

Reading my last post I guess I should also clarify something. I don't actually hate the later titles (O.K. maybe FFX-2 :rolleyes2 ) I'm disappointed with them cause each had such great potential, but each one always seems to make some major mistake that hinders my ability to love them. The only title I come close to really hating is FFX but I cannot forgive it for it's bad writing and the fact that it's more of an interactive movie than an actual game.

Overall, I don't feel that the later titles are bad, just not "The Bestest best game ever!!!!" as some people would say. I believe they are all good games (even X, when the game decides you can actually play:rolleyes2 ) If I have anything against VII, it's more towards it's fans than it's creators cause they pretty much told Squenix that they don't mind convulated bull:skull::skull::skull::skull: plots as long as the game has a lousy love story, and the main character looks cool. I don't hate VII, VIII, and X (I really like IX) I just feel they are overrated.

Kenshin IV

02-07-2007, 06:39 AM

It's okay to hate Ten-Two (anyone know what a "Ten-Two" is?), you don't have to feel bad about that.

Bunny

02-07-2007, 01:24 PM

I love how the main two people arguing here each bashed the two best games in the series in Six and Seven. Such worthwile opinions we have here.

Where's that retard running picture when I need it?

I don't like Final Fantasy VII and I have made a point of it to not keep that a secret. Most popular does not equal best.

Zeromus

02-07-2007, 05:03 PM

Is this you??? Seriously, is it?
http://they.misled.us/archives/318
Sounds like you
Oh... what a stupid ignorant article!

It really has to be this guy =/...

Some of the games he put i think r ok...
But there is my loved FF6 commented by an idiot...
And hey!... there is TLoZ:Ocarina Of Times... I don't know if somebody has played Zelda here, but this is just one of the best (and for many players, the best) Zelda ever!... That Zelda is to the Zelda series something like FF6 is to the Final Fantasy series... !
Really, really what an idiot!... :nonono:

Flying Mullet

02-07-2007, 05:11 PM

I think that article was written to try and find something wrong with 10 games that the gaming industry and most gamers tend to view as ground-breaking or cutting edge in gaming (at the time of their release).

Kenshin IV

02-07-2007, 06:49 PM

Wolf Kanno

02-07-2007, 07:34 PM

Is this you??? Seriously, is it?
http://they.misled.us/archives/318
Sounds like you

This article seems to written by someone who was just trying to draw attention to themselves. His reasonings for hating most of these games are fairly weak. It almost seems like he was trying to convince himself rather than others.

Also, for the love of god people, let's not devolve this into a debate between FFVI and FFVII. This is about how FFVI compares to the series as a whole not just to FFVII.:rolleyes2

Markus. D

02-09-2007, 10:09 AM

FF7 didnt have any non-endgame ridiculously tricky bosses either.

FFVI IMO has a better formed story :3

Grendal

02-09-2007, 10:39 AM

The first time I had a chance to play Final Fantasy VI was the Anthology port for PSX. To be honest, I didn't find it too appealing. Part of the reason probably lies in the fact that I had already played VII and VIII, and was pretty used to the whole formula by that point. So in that respect, VI wasn't anything particularly innovative to me. I did invest the time to complete the game start to finish, though, and felt pretty disappointed with it overall as a result. Most of the time, the plot couldn't hold my attention very well, and there were parts of the game which I found so tedious (not necessarily in terms of difficulty) that I would stop playing for weeks at a time. I suppose my biggest complaint is Kefka. Kefka was just... Kefka. He's not the type of villian I could take seriously. Some of the characters had a pretty decent sense of background, and all of that blended together to make a fair enough story in itself. But trying to wrap it all together with the Nihilistic rampage of a "clown-experiment-thing" seems like a creative cop-out.

On a side-note, what was up with that octopus? It had to appear during the most inappropriate moments and completely side-track me from the main plot. I really hate that thing with a passion, and wish that the developers never tried to implement it. It somewhat sadens me that it was even deemed worthy of a cameo appearance in Dawn of Souls. :|

LazarCotoron

02-09-2007, 07:27 PM

I recently replayed FFVI and Im gonna have to go against the tide and say its one of the worse FFs out of the first 9 (never played X and above)

First FFVI IS A JOKE when it comes to difficulty.. I kept waiting for the moment something would actually challenge me, WITHOUT EVER stopping to level.. And Im not that good of a player or anything, its just that character damage in this game is WAY TOO HIGH...
At the start you have Edgar's Auto crossbow which paired with atlas armlet obliterates anything... a little later you get flash.. not to mention on how overpowered Gau is when you have all the useful rages..
Then you get Spells lvl 2 (fire, ice, bolt) etc.. I remember when I reached Atma at the floating continent... I thought "hey a WEAPON, this should be tough" what a joke! morphed terra + bolt 2 = 5 K damage every turn at lvl 20...who needs vanish + doom tricks when the game is so easy anyway?

Second, the game as way too many playable characters, and you could say "the more the better because there will always be someone who pleases you" but I hate it, its just messy.. you never have time to explore a character deeply, because as soon as youre getting attached to that character, 2 more come in and your loved one gets removed out of the party.. ugh..

Third, whats with every character having equal stats and being able to share most equipment? So many characters and nothing to make them special.. except for...

Fourth, SKILLS... did anyone notice you can and probably WILL go through the whole game without using the "fight" command once? Except for the very beginning with Terra of course.. Since every character has magic and magic is much more powerful until very late in the game (and ultima still owns then)... WHY are skills free? Edgar, Cyan and Sabin will NEVER use the fight command, because they can just spam whatever skill you want to without mp charge or anything.. its broken

Fifth, the plot, to FF standards, sucks! Sure, its better than the plot from FF 1 :rolleyes2 but other than that... its 100% predictable and ... whats up with the part at thamasa when Kefka suddenly comes in and starts killing espers left and right? So he suddenly went from a random dude to some invincible killing machine? Lame

For those too lazy to read, cliffs

1 - Too easy
2 and 3 - Too many (useless and pointless) characters
4 - Broken skills
5 - Mediocre plot and worse excuse for a villain ever

And where are the monster HP super bosses? Right, there arent any

About the only thing I liked from this game was the romance between Locke and Celes, and thats because both are cool

I was thinking I'd simply quote you and let your stupidity stand on its own. I had thought that really, having to endure your own criticisms would be enough for you to go silently away, suddenly understanding what a moron you've been. Yet... as is the case with most members of humanity, it wasn't enough for you to stand silent, and it definately wasn't enough for you to get the picture that maybe you lost the fight before you started it when every FFVI fan bit you.

So let's get out of the way what NEEDS to be said about your comments before I tear you apart in my personal fashion.

You say the game is 100% predictable and yet you never saw Kefka becoming the main villain. Dood. Why the hell did you think they were building him up so much? Didn't you notice he kinda' went out of his way to be a total fuckface, and you had to fight him repeatedly across the game? He had FF main villain written all over him, and you child, missed it. So for starters, you've failed Observation.

The Atma Weapon... yes, this fight is pretty easy-both times you fight it, in fact. Am I to understand that fights with Weapons are supposed to be hard? None of the weapon fights in the series are 'hard'-but they are generally longer and involve higher amounts of damage. However, what you've done here is judge one game against other games that have similar characteristics and the same title. This is valid in games like Mega Man, but even those games are different enough to be judged on their own merits. You made an assumption, and had certain expectations tied to it. So next, you've failed Open Mindedness.

...my god, I didn't think it was possible, but you failed Observation twice... Did you PLAY FFVIII!? That game has broken skills. The skills in FFVI are balanced within that environment. I'm sorry your party was 1 million times more capable than that group of losers from FFIV-get over it.

Game has too many characters? Can a game really have too many characters? A game can definitely not have enough characters. Gogo is tacked on, sure. Umaro as well. As I understand, they were added in because characters like that were expected in the series because of FFIII and FFV. I hate fanboy expectations of certain bits of crap as much as I'd expect most people to, but honestly... that's a weak complaint. If there's too many characters... DON'T USE THEM ALL! ZOMG, problem solved. You fail at Self-Control.

And we come to difficulty. Y'know, the game is pretty tame difficulty wise by both todays and yesterdays standards. And this is the only thing I'm not going to up and up blast you for because difficulty in a game is raging discussion within all of gamerdom. Should games be easier to accommodate more people, or should they be harder for diehards? This is a much more complex topic then should have been addressed in your bitch thread.

Finally, the piece that I have to say to you as a gamer to a gamer. I don't go into your fanboy fetish forum and start throwing down how much this object of your fanboy affection sucks. I do not do this because I'm not a total fuckface. You should consider not doing it yourself. When you start fights, you better finish them-and sometimes that means saying you're wrong. Sometimes the other party will say it, but when you start stuff on their home turf, you're in the wrong whether you are or aren't.

There's a very real possibility I will get banned for this post. And I accept that. And y'know what? I wouldn't have said it had someone not illicited that sort of response. So if I get banned for saying what needed to be said, do understand something. It was worth it.

Grendal

02-09-2007, 07:33 PM

Guys, can we refrain from attacking the topic-starter? He was merely sharing his opinion. If that doesn't settle well with anyone, then the best route to address it would be to explain why you disagree with his points -- not flat-out call him an idiot simply because you don't agree with / don't like the tone of his post.

LazarCotoron

02-09-2007, 07:48 PM

Attack him?

You misunderstand here. An explanation of simple psychology is in order.

You see, he attacked something that collectively we like. We like it so much we have a chatting area devoted to it, where we share how cool the thing is. This cretin has decided to devalue this thing that we like. In turn, this devalues us.

It is indirectly a personal attack, and consequently, when bitten, creatures bite back.

Or to put it even more simply... If you throw a punch, don't whine when you get punched back.

Grendal

02-09-2007, 08:19 PM

I'm sure he wasn't out to attack anyone. Everyone can be pretty outspoken when they're strongly disappointed with a game. And opinion is not something to necessarily take offense to. Just live and let live.

Azure Chrysanthemum

02-09-2007, 08:57 PM

LazarCotoron, we do NOT permit personal attacks on this site. It is perfectly acceptable to argue a point, but we do NOT call others stupid because of differing opinions. Knock if off.

Carry on.

thehodgepodge37

02-09-2007, 09:59 PM

I strongly disagree. I thought VI was my second favorite FF (next to IX).I liked the characters but I think Kefka was a bit.... freaky... :D

silentenigma

02-10-2007, 03:43 AM

Oh I hated FFVI too, thread-starter. Totally Agree with ya. Totally. Honest.

Elpizo

02-10-2007, 08:47 AM

I find it funny how Kefka is called a 'brainless' villain. Ehm... Care to name me more than 2 FF villains who weren't mad in the end? Zemus? Mad. Exdeath? Mad. Kefka? Mad. Sephiroth? Insane and mad. Ultimecia? Mad and insane and evil. Kuja? After hearing he's gonna die he goes mad. Garland? Random. Emperor? Backgroundless and evil for the sake of being evil.

The only not-mad villain of the first 9 games that comes to my mind is Xande. That guy wasn't mad, just a bit very displeased by his gift from Noah and decided to do something about it.

Haha... Brainless villains in FF... Like FF has anything else than brainless, mad and insane villains. Now recently with Vayne, however... And I don't know about FF X. But I heard Seymore or what's-his-name wasn't all that sane either.

And about FF V's story, I will always disagree that it had a weak story. And there's nothing wrong with a villain named Exdeath (his official name now, with FFVA), cause he's one of the few villains to actually obtain something. (Like Kefka, he too got his uberpower and terrorized mankind with it like Kefka. Or should I say, Kefka terrorized mankind like Exdeath did? ;) ) V's stroy was an improvement over IV's in certain aspects. Just like FF III's story V's story doesn't always get (actually, never) the credit it deserves. But okay, let's go back on-topic.

Grendal

02-10-2007, 10:57 AM

Elpizo

02-10-2007, 11:12 AM

Kefka's character is puerile and dull. He lacks any motive other than that he simply craves destruction for no good reason. This is why people complain. Other Final Fantasy villians (some, not all) at least have some driving motivation behind their madness. Kuja is not a fair comparison to Kefka at all, as Kuja has the actual psychology of a villian. Kefka does not.
Zemus: I want that planet. KILL ALL!!!
Exdeath: I want the void! DEVOUR ALL!!!
Kefka: Life is an unworthy thing! DESTROY ALL!
Sephiroth: I am an experiment! I need to become a god! KILL ALL!
Ultimecia: I have no explanation! ALL EXISTANCE SHALL BE DENIED, FWAHAHAHAHAA!!!
Kuja: Why would live deserve to exist without me? KILL ALL!!!
---
Garland: I will knock you all down! HAHA!
Emperor: POWER! UNLIMITED, POWEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRR!!!
---
Xande: Wait a second??? I get mortality? WTF, Noah?! No way I'll agree with this!!! Let's stop time so I won't die!
---
Vayne: He's no badguy, just a guy with different views.
And I don't know about Seymore, but I think he's in the list of kill-all villains as well.

Yeah, really, FF is full of well developped villains with great motives.
Kefka's twisted mind convinced him that life was an unworthy thing, and that drove him to destroy all. That's as good as any other insane badguy. And FF had a lot of those.

Grendal

02-10-2007, 11:22 AM

Elpizo

02-10-2007, 12:22 PM

Zemus, Exdeath, Garland, Emperor and Ultimecia... all agreed upon. They lacked any character what-so-ever. But regarding the others, you really need to go back and pay attention to some of these plots. They don't just senselessly declare that the world must be destroyed.

Of course, I get the impression that you're just quick to ridicule. ;)
OH RLY???

Kefka: Injected with Magic and becomes insane. A killer clown poisoning castles, blasting espers to bits all for the fun. Moves some statues and destroys the world because he thinks life of as unworthy.

Sephiroth: In one freaking night he reads more than 1000 boosk and boom, suddenly he's an insane madman. "Oh noes! Mother!" Runs of to the Mako reactor after slaughtering Nibelheim for no good reason, cuts of Jenova's head, jumps in the lifestream and for therest of the game sits frozen in Northern Crater waiting till Cloud comes by and gives him the black materia. Then he summons meteor and wait till the player comes by to kick his ass, while he's doing nothing but waiting for a big rock to drop and kill a few millions of people and damage the planet so he can become a god. What a developped villain.

Kuja: Now this is the man. My favorite villain of all Final Fantasy games. he had it all, from a great plan to nice power. That is... Until he heard he was gonna die after he just became a demi-god. Mister blasts a planet to bits and then runs of to destroy all lifeforms.

Aside from Kuja, there aren't many well developped 'insane' bad guys Final Fantasy has. Sephiroth's becoming evil was so badly done that I went "Ungh, is this the bad guy so many people love?" At least Kefka had his humor and lovable insaneness going for him.

No, these three don't senselessly declare the world must go 'poof', but their reasons are as weak as any other insane-destroy-all badguy.
Why I bothered to post this? Well, Kefka was blamed for being brainless and bland. But then again, is he an exception? Almost every FF badguy is.

No, the best villain in the end is Xande, for being original and not wanting to destroy all. He was also sane and the first developped villain, be it in a primitive way. But hey, it was 1990. Next would be Vayne, who has taken the 3 place on my 'villain' list, because he is no villain. More original and refreshing than that it can't be. Secodn is Exdeath. He's a tree and that's also original. All other badguys are mostly regular, insane humans.

Grendal

02-10-2007, 12:34 PM

Elpizo

02-10-2007, 12:48 PM

Elpizo, ridicule does nothing to establish a point. Until you can be more reasonable about this discussion, then I see no point in bickering back and forth about such a trivial matter. Please go back and reconsider, or find another way to argue your point.
Dude, I am reasonable. It's a fact that almost every Final Fantasy badguy in the end is nothing more than an insane, destroying-all freak, regardless of what he did before he went mad. Kefka can not be blamed for his insaneness when he's only one of the many badguys. You don't even need to argue my point. Go ahead and tell me if i'm wrong. Zemus, Exdeath, Kefka, Sephiroth, Ultimecia, Kuja, Seymore, Garland and Emperor? They aren't the average destroy-all/insane villains? I think you're the one who needs to replay the FF-games that have these villains, not me. And that is not saying these villains are bad, no, far from actually. But not one of these destroy-all villains had a well developped reason to let the world go poof. So it is ridiculous to blame one villain for his insaneness, when he's only one of the many, as the topic creator did.

And ridicule? Lol. All I did was wrapping up all these villains did. Am I wrong? Go ahead and tell me that Sephiroth didn't slaughter Nibelheim, that Kefka didn't blast Espers to bits and had fun doing it. Go ahead and tell me that Kuja didn't blow Terra up because he was going to die. I'm not mocking these villains, I'm just in very simple words telling what they did. And if my memory serves me right, I don't think that anything I wrote is wrong.

Wolf Kanno

02-11-2007, 06:41 AM

WARNING: LONG RAN... I MEAN POST!!!!!

The only villain in the FF games I don't care for is Seymore. It's not that he wasn't villainous or just a pain in the ass. I just felt that he always seemed tacked on. If you omit him from the plot, you soon realize that the story isn't really drastically changed. I just never felt like he could compete with Yu-Yevon/Sin in the game.

Let me rephrase my feelings about FFV's plot, since I'm certain Elpizo is debating my comment about the game. I do still feel the games plot lacks cohesion and their is a level of randomness to it. It's cast, though original (except for Reina and Krile) are really good by FF standards. My issue probably comes from the fact that I've only played the FF Anthology version of the game. I've heard that FFV Advance fixes alot of the translation and localization issues with the game. I've been meaning to pick it up actually.

As for Exdeath, when it comes down to villainous acts, he's debatedly the best (Kefka, Kuja and Exdeath have the longest list of real offenses in the FF games) his origins and backstory are very interesting, they even create a rather interesting social commentary about mankind's sins, though I regret it was never really explored. His personality on the other hand is pretty bland. Though he has an excuse to be evil it doesn't really make his personality compelling. He's evil cause he's evil.

Garland and the Emperor come from an era in RPG history where story and narrative had not become important so it's difficult to really argue about their relevance. I haven't played FFIII yet (I just got a DS like two days ago) so I can't say anything about him that would be relevant either.

Now Zemus is basically a manipulator, who holds a grudge against humanity (who caused his downfall within his society) and the Lunarians (who betrayed him for the sake of coexistence with humanity). Most complaints about him stem from his lack of presence and the fact that he seemed "tacked on" to the plot. Golbez was the real villain to amny in that game. Zeromous is a bit of an odd plot twist and his relevance is hotly debated by FFIV fans to this day. Zemus basically wanted revenge Zeromous was the one that wished to destroy all.

For Sephiroth, I feel I should warn you that I'm from the camp of FF fans who believe he is a pawn to Jenova. The revelation of his origins drove him mad and allowed his more basic instinct to kick in. He destroyed Nibelheim for no real reason, he killed the President of ShinRa out of vengence, he killed Aerith cause she stood in the way of his master paln, and manipualted Cloud to bring the Black Materia to him. Now, I stated that Sephiroth's madness allowed his more basic instincts to kick in, but by that I mean the instincts of Jenova. Sephiroth only tried to absorb the Lifestream cause it's what Jenova instinctivly and naturally does. He siad he did it to become a god but I feel that was just the human side of him rationalizing the alien part of him. It's interesting to read but most of it's just specualtion, in the end I feel he's just a pawn. He's not someone to be feared but rather something to be pitied. I don't hate him, I just don't feel he's the greatest.

Ultemacia never had any real motive. She's another manipulater like Zemus and Sephiroth her back story is weak. I understand that she wanted to compress time so she could have the power of every sorceress that ever lived and become a god but nothing else about the plan made much sense. Why did she need that kind of power? To defeat SeeD which hunts her? No, cause she has already dealt with the SeeD from her time. She really doesn't have much of a reason to want or need power.

Kuja is a damn fine specimen of a villain, basically take one part Kefka (his arrogance and disdain for all life he considers inferior) and one part Sephiroth ( genetic experiment who overthrows his creators) make the backstory compelling by letting his villainy be a result of his battle for freedom and by making his arrogance be a result of him being an artificail alien being. Add a pinch of originality (his madness caused by his narrcistic belief that life has no meaning without him) and you've got yourself a villain that some would argue to be near perfect. I still feel he lacks personality (though I do love him) but that's just my personal opinion.

Vayne wasn't really a villain, so he shouldn't be in this argument.

Kefka is an oddity. I think what makes him compelling is that not only is he completely human (with a few enhancements, but genetically speaking, he's completly human) but his personality represents the true dark side of humanity. He's a narcesist who believes that he is truly superior to others. He enjoys torturing and killing people cause to him, their just insects, who are only able to live out their existence because of the will of a few elite. He's a serial killer with power and influence. He's favored by Emperor Gestalh cause he's willing to do the dirty work with no questions asked, unlike Gestahl's Generals. This only adds to his arrogance and feelings of superiority. Now yes, their is the story about the accident during the experiments but we never delve into what he was like before. The accident could have made his psychological "godhead" come to the forefront rather than actually create it. He is the first to discover how to really use the Goddess Statues powers (though albeit by accident) he becomes a god and revels in what he loves most. Making people suffer. Unlike previous villains, Kefka doesn't just enjoy killing, he enjoys making people suffer. Afterall, human beings are just "toys" to a god... But something interesting happens, after reaching a state of being similiar to god, he gets bored, he starts to think a little and comes to a rather twisted conclusion. Life is meaningless. Why do people continue to cling to living if living is going to only lead to more suffering? We can now safely add nihilism to Kefka's personality traits. Kefka is basically a representation of what is wrong with people. Selfish, cowardly, elitist, sadistic, and nihilistic. Was he insane? Yes, but I would argue that he didn't completely snap and go totally psycho until the incedent on the floating continent. His actions and personality before this time are more common than people would care to admit. It's especially more prevalent during times of war (which FFVI takes place in). So, even though he does fall into the group of "crazy in the membrane" villains, it was justified within the context of the story. Just saying that he's "a stereotypical crazy FF villain" is a misconstrued notion.

I might agree that Kefka is a bit overrated,just like Sephiroth,but I hardly believe him to be a terrible villain, let alone the worse in the FF series. In FFVI Advance, he's coming across a little differently than before. He's far more sinister and calculating than in the original translation.

Elpizo

02-11-2007, 10:33 AM

This post is directed at Wolf Kanno. It would be a bit too long to quote, you know. ;)

I've never had isues with FF V's plot, not even with the translated SNES version (I've stayed away from Antholgy). I can agree that Exdeath's personality can be considered bland. However, I see him as an improved version of Xande. FF III and V's stories show many similarities, and their villains are no exception. You see, you are right when you say Exdeath has a backgroundstory. Just like Xande, the first FF villain ever to have a backgroundstory. However, Exdeath appeared in the game many times and not just at the end like Xande. Exdeath introduced a new villain type in FF, by re-appearing a lot in the game.

Golbez? No, he doesn't really count. Why not? Because Golbez is an improved version of Garland and Emperor. He has next to no background, but appears many times in the game. And his personality too, isn't really that much to write home about.

So Exdeath was new terrain for the creators actually. And I think that his bland personality also comes from the fact that Exdeath was never meant to live. He was a tree in which they sealed evil, and that tree later became Exdeath. His inhuman behavior (in my eyes) proves that for me.

Exdeath does quite some very evil things and not many FF villains obtain the same thing he did, like you said.
Overal FF V's story was improved over IV's in my opinion, because IV actually used the FF I and II formula and fleshed it out a bit more, while V continued on the road FF III had first walked. The road of a story with background and a villain with background. Also, I find it quite amazing how well the creators were able to mix gameplay with the story in FF V, cause with the job-system it wasn't really easy, I think, to create interesting characters. Do not take me wrong, IV's story was great too, but that was thanks to its great cast. The story itself, I found, lacked background, which I wouldn't really expect after FF III. FF V did have background (Enuo, the Void, stuff), and a lively, colorful cast. So in that way, I think V improved over IV, but I also know that nobody will agree if I say V's story > IV's story (in some ways).

And oh yeah, play FFVA, you'll never regret it.

For the rest of the villains you summed it up pretty nicely, and I didn't really mean to throw Kefka in the pile of other insane villains, I just showed the topic creator that he absolutely shouldn't complain about Kefka being insane and brainless while almost every FF villain is (except for, well, Xande, IMHO). It was weak statement against Kefka, anyway.

I'm playing FF VI Advance now, too. And Kefka indeed comes across as more evil. He comes across as a cold killer that has fun doing what he does, and I must say I enjoy it more because it is perfectly combined with his priceless lines and attitude. If it comes to pure evilness, I think Kefka wins.

Wolf Kanno

02-11-2007, 08:42 PM

I completely agree with you on Exdeath. It's hard for me to say negative things about FFV cause it's my second favorite in the series. I like Exdeath and I didn't mean to say that he was too bland. His backstory completely justifies his personality and actions.

Glad you like FFVI Advance:cool: I'll be picking up FFV Advance and FFIII next paycheck.

Oh, and in case you didnt catch it, my rant on the villain role call was more towards Youjirou and Frostwake (the thread starter), not on you. You seem to know your stuff;)

Goldenboko

02-11-2007, 10:22 PM

Azure Chrysanthemum

02-12-2007, 04:41 AM

OK, having finally had a chance to look over this thread fully, I am going to extend my warning to everyone in this thread who has been using personal attacks against each other. Stop. Now.

Sidderz

02-12-2007, 05:18 PM

Okay I don't want to get into this long debate but if I may just throw my two cents in I'd have to say that I loved Kefka as a villian. His "insane" nature just really made me smile to no end, if anything I just found him incrediblly fun.

Oh and honestly if we're going on what villians we like and dislike; if they made a villian that is as well developed and generally magnificent as Palpatine from Star Wars I'd be happy.

Lynx

02-14-2007, 05:43 AM

dont ever hear about too many people dislikeing FFVI.

by the way there was no way i was going to read every post in here so if i say somehting allready said then feel free to ignore it.

FFVI was very easy ill igve it that. if your looking for a challange try and not rais eoyur levels too high. all final fantasys are easy. ive played a great deal of final fantasys and found FFVI to be one fo the best if not my favorite one (i have toruble decideing).

characters: this was one of the best gorup of characters i had trouble chooseing who i wanted to use. locke will always be my favorite character of all time though. everyone has there own skill whcih helps when you choose characters. also chances are you will use everyone in the game especially wiht how mcuh you have to split up the characters.

skills: ok so its a little cheap theyre endless. so what. you can mess up blitzs. steal isnt great until you get mug/capture even then you need to waste a relic spot. umaro you cant control. sketch wasnt great. lore you had to find them. rage you had to eap the irght monsters. see they all have there downside as well as there good side.

story: one of the best storys in the series. no main character was a awesome idea. even though theres been debate as to who is the main character. characters have awesome background storys especially locke with his rachel story. kefka was a great villian totally insane made a great villain. also jsut when you think everyone is together bam split up again. plus the story has a lot of mystery in it. realm and shadow? who is gogo? is there a way to get another character on your team?why does and 8 foot yeti obey a 3 foot moogle :p

summons: there were so many and some very creative summons(espers) as well. palidor rules. raganrok and its choice between sword and esper. crusader and its affecting you and the enemy attack.

enemies: very creative enemies. atma is just plain awesome. atma is my favorite enemy in the entire FF series. want a challange fight the brachiasaurs in the forest in the WoR.

weapons/armor/relics: atma weapon awesome Hp based light saber. raganrok and its ability to cast flare. or illumina and its ability to cast pearl/holy. also the fact that you can learn magic from weapons was a cool idea. and even useing the right relics set yourself up for an 8x attack.

magic: the spells looked so cool in this FF. also again very creative ideas. merton and whirl wind hurting you as well as the enemy. X zone and it sucking enemys into nothing. ultima looked way cooler in VI then in any other FF.

this game had great original ideas an all aorund amazeing FF. only downfall was it was kinda easy. but the rest of the game more then made up for it.