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Grendal
02-09-2007, 08:08 PM
I was curious as to which popular games everyone has played that they feel are generally over-rated.

I was recently playing A Link to the Past (GBA port) and it sort of inspired me to bring it up. I guess because it's one of the more highly acclaimed titles in the Zelda series.

Well, I think I first started playing ALttP a year or two ago, after it had been ported to the GameBoy Advance. I remember hearing about it back in the SNES era, but never really had the chance to play. It was okay at first, but for something be re-released as a modern title, I felt the graphics were just a bit out-dated. (which isn't necessarily a valid complaint, because it IS just a port) That aside, the biggest problem was the first major difficulty spike I encountered when entering the Dark World for the first time. It was basically a war-zone crammed full of powerful enemies. It wasn't so difficult that I couldn't eventually adapt, but for that particular moment in the game, it was a radical shift from one level to another.

The second difficulty spike came when I entered the Ice Palace. I was pretty familiar with the Dark World at that point, but the Ice Palace was taking it up a whole other notch. Between trying to keep my health up and constantly getting lost, I had to reset quite a bit. I even put the game down for months at a time due to all the discouragement. Well, after finally getting that out of the way, here comes another difficulty spike -- Ganon's almighty tower! By this time, I had managed to collect most of the upgrades in the game, but it really didn't help me much. I remember just barely managing to crawl out of there with a fraction of health left, after having gone through 4 whole Blue Potions. The worst part is having to constantly back-track after saving in the middle of the dungeon, considering how lengthy it is.

Don't get me wrong, though -- I do love a challenge. The only problem with ALttP is that there isn't enough gameplay balance between difficulty shifts. It seems like the game merely throws you into the next level and expects you to either intuitively fend for yourself, or die trying.

That aside, it seems like there are some issues with equipment balance, also. For example, although you can upgrade your sword's attack power, you can never upgrade the effect of Link's beam attack. After you venture into the Dark World, this is quite tedious as you often have to strike enemies in an excess of 5 - 10 times in order to finish them off. Other items in the inventory generally aren't that effective, either, unless the enemy has some kind of weakness to them. (such as with the Fire Rod, which comes in handy quite a bit) This often contributes to the sharp difficulty balance, as well.

As for the story, nothing new there. Of course, we are talking about an SNES classic... I wasn't expecting anything particularly innovative, or anything that I haven't already seen in later installments. But otherwise, no real complaints.

Regarding the bonus content in the GBA port, I thought some of it was pretty interesting, but too short-lived. Four Swords, for example, was really more of a mini-game that had to be completed several times over. After a while, the friend I was playing with gave up on me before I could manage to get everything unlocked! :p But I did think Four Swords was pretty fun in its own right. It did manage to spawn a few sequels, after all. (if you also count Minish Cap, which borrowed many of the game's elements)

So, that's my little ALttP rant. The game probably would have been more appealing had I been given the chance to play it back in the day, but as far as modern appeal is concerned, it could have benefitted from a few changes. But it's definitely not something I would deem worthy of "Best SNES Game Ever." I think that spot is more reserved by games like "Super Mario All-Stars," or "Kirby's Dream Land 3." Maybe even "Super Metroid" ... (which is actually another game I played way after the SNES era had ended)

Renmiri
02-09-2007, 08:16 PM
FFXII was highly over rated. A fun game with gorgeous graphics and enjoyable gameplay but crapy story, weak characters and bland boring music.

Roto13
02-09-2007, 08:21 PM
I thought Final Fantasy XII had amazing characters because only one of them in the entire game was annoying at all. That's a huge step for Final Fantasy.

Anyway, Halo gets way more praise than it deserves.

Fatal Impurity
02-09-2007, 08:24 PM
I think there are a few over rated games just look at FF7 for example! great game no doubt but it was glitchy, over easy, crap graphics (even for the time), and had a terrible translation.....if it didnt have a killer story it would of been unforgivable! all i can say that its DEFINATELY NOT one of the best games ever! Ocarina of time yes...FF7 NO!

sorry about that little rant...and i know alot if not all of you have a special place in your heart reserved for FF7 but its just not the best thing ever!

Grendal
02-09-2007, 08:24 PM
I'm still waiting for an opportunity to play FFXII, unfortunately. I think it looks pretty good so far, (actually because of the story) but I've only seen bits and pieces of gameplay videos. I really enjoy anything Akitoshi Kawazu has worked on, including the defamed SaGa series.

chrisfffan
02-09-2007, 08:33 PM
i just hope the main character isn’t as annoying as Tidus! ha ha

Vincent, Thunder God
02-09-2007, 08:36 PM
Well the easiest answer that comes to mind for me is Halo, and a lot of other shooters. Maybe if I play Half-Life 2 I might actually fully enjoy a shooter for once, since Ryth recommended it.

NeoCracker
02-09-2007, 08:39 PM
Final Fantasy VII and VIII, Halo, Vagrant Story, and the Dragon Quest Series.

Lufia is quite the oposite, as it is a very underated Series, but thats another point entirely.

black orb
02-09-2007, 08:42 PM
>>> Tekken games, Kingdom Hearts games..

BTW, I think FF7 live up to its hype..

Setzer Gabianni
02-09-2007, 08:52 PM
FFXII was highly over rated. A fun game with gorgeous graphics and enjoyable gameplay but crapy story, weak characters and bland boring music.

Weak characters? They've got more personality and style then some of the golden oldies :love: . Bland boring music? I'm guessing we are an old fashioned FF music lover ;) Each to their own I guess!

I will say FFVII, VIII are highly overrated. FFVII is a good game. However, I realised that after a while, it wasn't as great as I thought it would be. Characters..are a bit dull.

FFVIII had great problems with character designs - good lord, can the main cast get any plainer? At least XII's had something to go on. Probably the only FF to have such bad character design.

Grendal
02-09-2007, 09:00 PM
FFVIII had great problems with character designs - good lord, can the main cast get any plainer? At least XII's had something to go on. Probably the only FF to have such bad character design.

This is one of the game's high points, I think. Most RPGs have such exotic character designs that tend to alienate the characters from their environments entirely. (check out the designs used by Magna Carta: Tears of Blood, for example) With Final Fantasy VIII, the characters were more down-to-earth and realistic.

Dreddz
02-09-2007, 09:05 PM
Halo, Ocarina of Time, Vagrant Story, Soul Caliber, Grand Theft Auto.

Erdrick Holmes
02-09-2007, 09:14 PM
I actually think Halo is very underrated. For every one person who likes it there are at least two who think it's crap only because it started out on a console made by Microsoft.

Anyway, Grand Theft Auto, XenoSUCKga, Final Fantasy VI, VII, VIII, IX, X and X-2, World of Warcraft, Soul Calibur, Final Fantasy Tactics, Ocerina of Time, and every racing game ever made qualifies as overrated.

Dreddz
02-09-2007, 09:26 PM
I actually think Halo is very underrated. For every one person who likes it there are at least two who think it's crap only because it started out on a console made by Microsoft.

No, it is. Every Xbox fan several years ago craved for a game to get there console attention. Halo was probably the first good game to come along to help them. Ever since then, they think this very by the books FPS is the greatest gaming franchise ever created. There is still a large minority who dont own any Microsoft system, who will just bash whatever comes from the console, without even playing it. Both sides are in the wrong.

This is coming from a 360 owner who thinks the system is great. Halo is a good series. But theres so much more better things coming from the system.

Fatal Impurity
02-09-2007, 09:32 PM
I think MGS is overrated...its good yeah, infact VERY good but no where near the greatest PS1 game ever like the mags make out...

Old Manus
02-09-2007, 09:39 PM
Shadow of the Colossus, unless I completely missed the point.

*waits for the flames*

UltimaMasamune
02-09-2007, 09:44 PM
I really don't give a goat's ass about how popular a game is , as long as I like it than I am happy



Shadow of the Colossus, unless I completely missed the point.

*waits for the flames*

flames j00

Shoeberto
02-09-2007, 09:45 PM
I think MGS is overrated...its good yeah, infact VERY good but no where near the greatest PS1 game ever like the mags make out...
I think I can agree with that, yeah.

UltimaMasamune
02-09-2007, 09:55 PM
I think MGS is overrated...its good yeah, infact VERY good but no where near the greatest PS1 game ever like the mags make out...

while do agree that MGS1 is not the greatest PS1 game ever (there isn't one due to the big variety of kickass games), the MGS series is very good and deserve the praise it gets

Slicksword45
02-09-2007, 10:43 PM
Gears of war. To repetive and crap teammate AI :(

Though the chainsaw was cool, it got boreing after so long.

aquatius
02-09-2007, 10:52 PM
Grand Theft Auto.

Araciel
02-09-2007, 10:53 PM
E.T. for atari

even though everyone says it sucks...that's still way too much praise

No.78
02-09-2007, 10:59 PM
Rename this thread "Popular games you don't like" lol, that seems to be what's going on here XD

btw Tekken is totally underrated

Nifleheim7
02-09-2007, 11:05 PM
Grand Theft Auto.

Wolf Kanno
02-09-2007, 11:18 PM
Though I would generally jump on the FFVII band wagon on this one, I feel I need to point out the other overrated FF game. (Holmes beat me to it though:mad2: ) and it would be FFX.

I can't understand why people love this game. It's an interactive movie with linear dungeons that are there for the sole reason for getting you from Cutscene A to Cutscene B. Half it's cast is just poorly written while the other half is just unlikable, and it's story is riddled with pointless plot devices that do nothing more than convulate the plot while adding nothing to it as a whole. I still believe that FFX is Squenix's tech demo for the PS2. It was only made to show what the PS2 was capable of, not to actually create a good game or story.

Also, Youjirou. About a Link to the Past. Yes, you did need to have played it back in the day to truly appreciate it. But your whole post pretty much describes the experience of playing any of the Zelda games.;) I had a similiar experience recently when I finally got to play Ocarina of Time (Nintendo, why do you insist on making Zelda a platformer when you're not going to give Link a Jump button?), I can see why people love it so much but it has aged badly.

XxSephirothxX
02-09-2007, 11:38 PM
Final Fantasy VIII (though this is so hotly contested, I don't know how highly rated it is. The people who love it love it way too much, but the people who hate it are vehement as well.)

Metal Gear Solid. I really tried to like the series, and I want to give it more of a shot, because from what I played of The Twin Snakes I really enjoyed the story, Snake, etc. But the gameplay is just blech. I've never been one for stealth games, really.

I thought Halo was overrated until I actually played it a lot. I used to be so anti-Xbox, just like every other Nintendo fanboy. :p But once I'd really played the game...yeah, that was gone.

The Summoner of Leviathan
02-10-2007, 12:19 AM
Shadow of the Colossus, unless I completely missed the point.

*waits for the flames*

I still wondering how to beat the first Colossus, though the game itself seems interesting...

FF VII, while I find it is a good game and all it is not as amazing as everyone puts it up to be.

Lawr
02-10-2007, 12:28 AM
Shadow of the Colossus, unless I completely missed the point.

*waits for the flames*

*Flames*


[I still wondering how to beat the first Colossus, though the game itself seems interesting...

FF VII, while I find it is a good game and all it is not as amazing as everyone puts it up to be.

Shadow of the Colossus is pretty 'gosh dawrn' easy and really fun to me.

But if I start talking about FF8 I'll probably explode.
*Waits for Flying Mullet*

UltimaMasamune
02-10-2007, 12:55 AM
Metal Gear Solid. I really tried to like the series, and I want to give it more of a shot, because from what I played of The Twin Snakes I really enjoyed the story, Snake, etc. But the gameplay is just blech. I've never been one for stealth games, really.

play MGS3 the gameplay is twice as good

Vincent, Thunder God
02-10-2007, 06:26 PM
I actually think Halo is very underrated. For every one person who likes it there are at least two who think it's crap only because it started out on a console made by Microsoft.

No, it is. Every Xbox fan several years ago craved for a game to get there console attention. Halo was probably the first good game to come along to help them. Ever since then, they think this very by the books FPS is the greatest gaming franchise ever created. There is still a large minority who dont own any Microsoft system, who will just bash whatever comes from the console, without even playing it. Both sides are in the wrong.

This is coming from a 360 owner who thinks the system is great. Halo is a good series. But theres so much more better things coming from the system.

I agree with this completely. It's a solid series, but as Dreddz says, it doesn't deserve all the attention, postive or negative.

Crossblades
02-10-2007, 06:45 PM
FF VII(still like it though), Halo 1 and 2, GTA series, MSG series

Madame Adequate
02-10-2007, 06:50 PM
For a lot of people, Halo was the literal definition of "next-gen". The Pillar of Autumn was the best opening level to any game I'd ever played (Probably still is). The FPS genre doesn't have a huge amount you can really do with it - it's all gonna be the same old :skull::skull::skull::skull:. You run, you shoot stuff. 90% of any extra stuff is gimmicky crap that won't matter if the game itself isn't solid. But Halo did the same old :skull::skull::skull::skull: in a retardedly expert manner, and at the time what it did was so shiny that it was doing new things - it was an FPS on an epic scale. Some popular games are overrated, certainly. And some games really are as good as everyone says. The original Halo is one of these.

Cz
02-10-2007, 08:09 PM
For a lot of people, Halo was the literal definition of "next-gen". The Pillar of Autumn was the best opening level to any game I'd ever played (Probably still is). The FPS genre doesn't have a huge amount you can really do with it - it's all gonna be the same old :skull::skull::skull::skull:. You run, you shoot stuff. 90% of any extra stuff is gimmicky crap that won't matter if the game itself isn't solid. But Halo did the same old :skull::skull::skull::skull: in a retardedly expert manner, and at the time what it did was so shiny that it was doing new things - it was an FPS on an epic scale. Some popular games are overrated, certainly. And some games really are as good as everyone says. The original Halo is one of these.:up::up::up:

And even if you don't like Halo, you can't deny the game's importance. Pretty much every single console FPS made since Halo's release has borrowed heavily from it, and iit's no coincidence that any half-decent shooter that comes along is referred to as a "Halo-killer". Most importantly, it put the X-Box on the map and helped it through its difficult formative stages, and thus made a massive contribution to Microsoft's entry into the console market. Oh, that and it's the best. :p

Levian
02-10-2007, 08:30 PM
Sudoku. :smash:

Madame Adequate
02-10-2007, 08:53 PM
Though I would generally jump on the FFVII band wagon on this one, I feel I need to point out the other overrated FF game. (Holmes beat me to it though:mad2: ) and it would be FFX.

I can't understand why people love this game. It's an interactive movie with linear dungeons that are there for the sole reason for getting you from Cutscene A to Cutscene B. Half it's cast is just poorly written while the other half is just unlikable, and it's story is riddled with pointless plot devices that do nothing more than convulate the plot while adding nothing to it as a whole. I still believe that FFX is Squenix's tech demo for the PS2. It was only made to show what the PS2 was capable of, not to actually create a good game or story.

I have to disagree with this. I thought X had by far the best characters, plot, and most importantly gameplay* of any FF to date, and still does. It was horrendously linear, I can't deny that, and I think that works strongly against it. But I think it's the best work Square's done on the series to date, tbh.

*Advanced version Sphere Grid = teh wins.

Old Manus
02-10-2007, 09:20 PM
QFT MILF TBH

Dr Aum
02-10-2007, 09:38 PM
To be honest, I'm really not a big fan of FFX. The sphere grid is one of the worst ideas ever, as was the thought that players would like to have to switch out characters all the time. Moreover, I simply can't bring myself to plug in my PS2 to play FFXII--I haven't played it in weeks because I didn't find it enjoyable.

Slothy
02-10-2007, 09:48 PM
For a lot of people, Halo was the literal definition of "next-gen". The Pillar of Autumn was the best opening level to any game I'd ever played (Probably still is). The FPS genre doesn't have a huge amount you can really do with it - it's all gonna be the same old :skull::skull::skull::skull:. You run, you shoot stuff. 90% of any extra stuff is gimmicky crap that won't matter if the game itself isn't solid. But Halo did the same old :skull::skull::skull::skull: in a retardedly expert manner, and at the time what it did was so shiny that it was doing new things - it was an FPS on an epic scale. Some popular games are overrated, certainly. And some games really are as good as everyone says. The original Halo is one of these.

Throw me in the "Halo is overrated" camp please. Funny you should mention the opening level; frankly it bored the crap out of me like the rest of the game. Nothing Halo did was done exceptionally well. The core gameplay (and by this I mean the controls and weapons) were done reasonably well for a console FPS, but I found the level design, particularly later in the game, horribly boring and repetitive. Throw in AI that wasn't half as amazing as many people liked to claim it was (enemies really had no clue what to do if you were fighting them at close range most of the time), and vehicle and weapon designs that weren't particularly original, or interesting, and you have a mediocre FPS at best. For a console FPS, it's pretty decent, but overall, it doesn't even come close to the likes of Half-Life 2.

And so everyone knows, I have played through the vast majority of the game, and played multiplayer extensively with friends of mine, so my opinion is based on my own experience with the game.

Auragaea
02-10-2007, 09:54 PM
Final Fantasy VI. The characters weren't close to being as great as people made them out to be, the game was too easy, the music was average, the story wasn't exciting, the world looked bland and many towns looked the same, the Esper system was a bad customization system, and character individuality was gone from battles once you learned powerful spells.

Final Fantasy XII. Boring characters, boring story, boring world, boring gameplay, boring music. Boring.

Xenogears. The battle system was downright crappy (both on land and in gears), the story tried too hard to make itself look important and intriguing (surprisingly, I liked Disc 2 because of how toned down the presentation was), the main characters weren't likable, the support crew didn't get enough story time, and the music was terrible, save for a few pieces.

Shadow of the Colossus. I like it, but all you really do is fight 15 bosses and explore the world. The story, although simple, and music are exceptionally good on the other hand.

Erdrick Holmes
02-10-2007, 10:16 PM
I have to disagree with this. I thought X had by far the best characters, plot, and most importantly gameplay* of any FF to date, and still does.

You're joking, right? FFX had probably the most botched/half-assed gameplay ever. Linear dungeons, easy battles, the whole game is just one long adventure from point A to point B.

Croyles
02-10-2007, 10:34 PM
Metal Gear Solid 1, 2 and 3
I too really tried to enjoy them. I completed 1 and 2 and played around 4 hours of the 3rd one but I just dont enjoy them...:(

Odaisé Gaelach
02-10-2007, 10:37 PM
*shrieks at the top of his voice*

HALO!

Auragaea
02-10-2007, 11:12 PM
*shrieks at the top of his voice*

HALO!

You're a guy?


Metal Gear Solid 1, 2 and 3
I too really tried to enjoy them. I completed 1 and 2 and played around 4 hours of the 3rd one but I just dont enjoy them...:(

I kinda know what you mean. Whenever I play the MGS series, I get bored out of my mind. But, when I watch my brother play it, I get into it and really love it.

Madame Adequate
02-10-2007, 11:46 PM
I have to disagree with this. I thought X had by far the best characters, plot, and most importantly gameplay* of any FF to date, and still does.

You're joking, right? FFX had probably the most botched/half-assed gameplay ever. Linear dungeons, easy battles, the whole game is just one long adventure from point A to point B.

I don't need to point out the irony to everyone, do I?


For a console FPS, it's pretty decent, but overall, it doesn't even come close to the likes of Half-Life 2.

Thanks for reminding me! The Half-Life series is massively considerably overrated :monster: Completely forgot about that. I edited it, you may note; I don't think they're bad games by any remote stretch of the imagination. But I also don't think they're the genre-defining epic adventures many portray them as.

Dreddz
02-11-2007, 12:05 AM
Half Life 2 is massively overrated. The first deserves all its praise.

Germ Hamee
02-11-2007, 12:13 AM
Resident Evil. All of them. I do not understand the appeal in those games at ALL.

DK
02-11-2007, 12:37 AM
Final Fantasy VI. The characters weren't close to being as great as people made them out to be, the game was too easy, the music was average, the story wasn't exciting, the world looked bland and many towns looked the same, the Esper system was a bad customization system, and character individuality was gone from battles once you learned powerful spells.

Agreed. :monster:

FFX had the best battle system in any of the FF's so far, imho. I wouldn't say it's the best game overall, but definitely one of the better efforts.

Iceglow
02-11-2007, 12:40 AM
For a lot of people, Halo was the literal definition of "next-gen". The Pillar of Autumn was the best opening level to any game I'd ever played (Probably still is). The FPS genre doesn't have a huge amount you can really do with it - it's all gonna be the same old :skull::skull::skull::skull:. You run, you shoot stuff. 90% of any extra stuff is gimmicky crap that won't matter if the game itself isn't solid. But Halo did the same old :skull::skull::skull::skull: in a retardedly expert manner, and at the time what it did was so shiny that it was doing new things - it was an FPS on an epic scale. Some popular games are overrated, certainly. And some games really are as good as everyone says. The original Halo is one of these.

Throw me in the "Halo is overrated" camp please. Funny you should mention the opening level; frankly it bored the crap out of me like the rest of the game. Nothing Halo did was done exceptionally well. The core gameplay (and by this I mean the controls and weapons) were done reasonably well for a console FPS, but I found the level design, particularly later in the game, horribly boring and repetitive. Throw in AI that wasn't half as amazing as many people liked to claim it was (enemies really had no clue what to do if you were fighting them at close range most of the time), and vehicle and weapon designs that weren't particularly original, or interesting, and you have a mediocre FPS at best. For a console FPS, it's pretty decent, but overall, it doesn't even come close to the likes of Half-Life 2.

And so everyone knows, I have played through the vast majority of the game, and played multiplayer extensively with friends of mine, so my opinion is based on my own experience with the game.

In my opinion Milf is right you are wrong. Halo was exceptionally well executed the fact that it comes along a good few years before Half-life 2 proves another thing, Milf was right when he said any half decent fps since halo has borrowed heavily from it, Half-life 2 borrowed from Halo, then again it admitted the borrowing most designers would be a fool not to say "hey we saw that this game is loved so we tried looking at what makes it loved and work something out for our game to hopefully give it the same desirability." As for AI in halo, did you even try Legendary? it was insanely difficult. I loved the challenge of it and the AI was pretty intelligent for the time, how many times did you get a new fps out the box and see enemy troops run blindly in to the grenade you threw not caring that in ohhh...*booom* seconds the grenade will explode killing them prior to Halo? Quite a lot of it actually. Halo also made it fun to play FPS games it wasn't like the awful rendition of quake 3 on PS2 where you just fought bots in the levels. It was beautiful I still play Halo 1 and Halo 2 and will definitely buy a 360 for 3 even if it's the only game I want for it.

Personally I am going to agree with Milf again on Half life series being overrated. I found it dull mind destroyingly dull. I loved Counterstrike when I used to play it but even that got taken over by people who saw it for more than just a bit of fun. I tried to complete Half-life 1 and failed completely not 'cause I couldn't do it, that wasn't the problem it was because I couldn't find the will to beat it I was so bored.

Another genre of overrated games in my eyes is wrestling games, they're games based around fat greasy men in speedos grappling with each other in what can only be described as an all too homo erotic way. Each one is repeated every year with the same dumb moves in it in the same dumb button sequence the only difference is the speedos change by a half tone of colour. The story lines suck and just why? Ok so maybe I dislike wrestling and football and could sit here bashing away at them both for hours if not days on end but still. It doesn't need to have a new wrestling game out every year and the fact that there is more than one each year is simply blatant money grabbing, they know people are dumb enough to buy it even if there is no changes from the last one they'll buy it because the box changed colour.

Roto13
02-11-2007, 12:43 AM
I don't see how anyone can complain about the graphics or music in Final Fantasy VI. Both were phenomenal. Especially the music.

Zeromus_X
02-11-2007, 12:58 AM
...the game was too easy...

I'd agree that the game is pretty easy, after I've cleared it so many times. But in actuality, which of the Final Fantasies actually are difficult? RPGs generally aren't very difficult games to begin with (difficulty is different from tediousness).


I don't see how anyone can complain about the graphics or music in Final Fantasy VI. Both were phenomenal. Especially the music.

I would have to agree. O_o

At any rate, I don't really find any games overrated. I don't believe in 'overrated' or 'underrated'. I believe that people like and dislike games and have their own opinions. There are enough people that'll dislike and like any game, so how can any of them be 'over/underrated'?

black orb
02-11-2007, 01:53 AM
The sphere grid is one of the worst best ideas ever

Ishin Ookami
02-11-2007, 02:09 AM
My list of overrated titles.

God of War: Awesome boss battles, but everything else was pretty much Devil May Cry, with topless hotties and less battle options. The ability to do a 100 hit combo does not a deep combat system make.

Halo: Had it's moments, but the whole thing was repetitious as hell. The only way I knew I was moving in the right direction during some of those levels were the fact that I kept running into new enemies. The enemies, weapons, and level layouts were all done long before halo, just without the high production values.

FFVII: Cloud and Sephiroth are the definition of overrated. Boo hoo, seph killed Aerieth and hid in a hole for the rest of the game. Boo hoo, poor clouds peasent village. I'm sorry, this game got it's rep based on looks alone.

Resident Evil 4: Not an overly bad game, but not the quantum leap everyone made it out to be. How come there was no strafe or dodge options, seemed like the same ol crap just with a few upgrades to me.

GTA III and every rockstar title after: revolutionary for its time, now it's just a redundant, virtual gangsta, paradise.

Croyles
02-11-2007, 12:44 PM
FFVII: Cloud and Sephiroth are the definition of overrated. Boo hoo, seph killed Aerieth and hid in a hole for the rest of the game. Boo hoo, poor clouds peasent village. I'm sorry, this game got it's rep based on looks alone.

Thats a fact then is it? Thanks, I really needed you to tell me that I only like FF7 because of how it "looks" :p

Half-Life 2 and Halo have already been said but I think they are good examples. I love FPS, but these didnt interest me that much.

Madame Adequate
02-11-2007, 12:51 PM
Resident Evil 4: Not an overly bad game, but not the quantum leap everyone made it out to be. How come there was no strafe or dodge options, seemed like the same ol crap just with a few upgrades to me.

Gotta roffle @ u for this. RE4 was exactly as big a deal as it was made out to be. If you played the earlier ones at all, you'd know this and you certainly wouldn't say it's just the same old crap. And yes, there is a dodge option, it's just contextual.

NeoCracker
02-11-2007, 01:13 PM
For you people who say Halo is hard, go play 00 Agent Mode on Golden Eye. That is hard.

My friend, who couldn't beat a half decent Halo player if his life depended on it, and who rarely plays any FPS's at all, beat the game, both of them, with minimal difficulty on Legendary. As did just about every other Halo player I know. There is nothing difficult about Halo unless you're in Multiplayer.

Rainecloud
02-11-2007, 01:20 PM
The Metal Gear Solid series is vastly overrated - in my opinion. I've played every single incarnation of the game, and they've all bored me to tears, especially those boring Playstation and Playstation 2 versions.

Oh, and Goldeneye. It's good, but not a classic. :/

Cruise Control
02-11-2007, 02:44 PM
There's several debates going on, and I'll try to state my opinion on all of them.

Halo: A tad over-rated, but deserving of A LOT of the praise t hat it recieves. Its about time AI had a brain when it comes to FPS. And the opening rocked. My big problem is, people are taking it too far (as with counterstrike). You can get booted for not being good. Does anyone else see a problem with that? I also think that half life is worthy of every bit of praise. The action is tight, and the story is superb.

Metal Gear Solid: Not over-rated. Its been around much longer than other stealth games, Splinter Cell owes MGS a lot.

FF6: I really don't know how good the graphics are, considering I'm not rooted in an SNES, I don't generally compare graphics between them. Good music. Overall, mildly over-rated (not as bad as 7 though).

For the next few, you need to understand where I go to school. I go to an alternate school, where your either a gangster, or you smoke pot everyday, or both.
I'm sick of hearing about:
GTA 3: The game is just boring. "Hey, lets make a game that lacks any sort of plot/objective, while making its sole appeal the ability to shoot cops."
Scarface: "OMFG DRUGS! THIS GAME IS THE (note singular):skull::skull::skull::skull:!"
Madden/NBA 2K7/Sports: "I could school you in (insert popular sports game)! Don't start with me bitch!"

Of course you can school some one in madden, it takes absolutely no talent to do so! The above 3 games are the definition of over-rated.

Ocarina of Time is over-rated. Sure, it did a lot right. But its not TEH BEST EVAR!

Pete for President
02-11-2007, 02:59 PM
I have to disagree with this. I thought X had by far the best characters, plot, and most importantly gameplay* of any FF to date, and still does. It was horrendously linear, I can't deny that, and I think that works strongly against it. But I think it's the best work Square's done on the series to date, tbh.

*Advanced version Sphere Grid = teh wins.

Agreed.

Metal Gear Solid 2 was overrated, the first and third lived up to the expectations imo.

FF VII, overrated, although I must add I hadn't picked up this game until 2005, so I can't judge the quality for it's time.

Gof of War, slightly overrated, but still pretty cool.

Slothy
02-11-2007, 03:14 PM
In my opinion Milf is right you are wrong. Halo was exceptionally well executed the fact that it comes along a good few years before Half-life 2 proves another thing, Milf was right when he said any half decent fps since halo has borrowed heavily from it, Half-life 2 borrowed from Halo, then again it admitted the borrowing most designers would be a fool not to say "hey we saw that this game is loved so we tried looking at what makes it loved and work something out for our game to hopefully give it the same desirability." As for AI in halo, did you even try Legendary? it was insanely difficult. I loved the challenge of it and the AI was pretty intelligent for the time, how many times did you get a new fps out the box and see enemy troops run blindly in to the grenade you threw not caring that in ohhh...*booom* seconds the grenade will explode killing them prior to Halo? Quite a lot of it actually. Halo also made it fun to play FPS games it wasn't like the awful rendition of quake 3 on PS2 where you just fought bots in the levels. It was beautiful I still play Halo 1 and Halo 2 and will definitely buy a 360 for 3 even if it's the only game I want for it.

Personally I am going to agree with Milf again on Half life series being overrated. I found it dull mind destroyingly dull. I loved Counterstrike when I used to play it but even that got taken over by people who saw it for more than just a bit of fun. I tried to complete Half-life 1 and failed completely not 'cause I couldn't do it, that wasn't the problem it was because I couldn't find the will to beat it I was so bored.

I think the fact that you think Half-Life was dull shows the differences in our tastes here. Halo was essentially just another mindless run and gun experience if you ask me, whereas Half-Life was not only a much tenser and immersive game in my opinion, but it was one of the first shooters that had you doing more than just blowing away anything that moved.

It's funny you should mention the AI in Halo running from thrown grenades and such and yet rag on HL. HL did all of that, and several years before Halo for that matter. Not only that though, it was done extremely well. I'd still put the HL AI up there with the AI in just about any FPS out today, and that's saying something since the game isn't far off of it's tenth birthday. And I would say the only thing HL2 may have borrowed from Halo is vehicles. If anything, it was very similar to the original HL in gameplay, and if you expect me to believe that they borrowed from Halo years before it was even announced then you're dreaming.

You see, I completely disagree with HL being overrated. As someone who got the game back when it originally came out, I can say that more FPS's have borrowed from that game since it's release than any other FPS. No game had the effect on the genre that it did since Doom, so as far as I'm concerned, it's plenty deserving of it's praise.

Elite Lord Sigma
02-11-2007, 04:44 PM
Well, my opinion on the current debates:

FFVI/VII: I haven't played these.

Halo: True, I do agree the level design could have been better, because all of those hallways got old fast. However, it's still a really good game that helped Microsoft establish itself as a valid gaming entity.

MGS: I've barely played the first Metal Gear Solid, and I can't get much further. I'll have to play it more before I make a final decision.

Half-Life: Haven't played either of these in my life.

escobert
02-11-2007, 05:11 PM
Final Fantasy X, I hates everything about this game. Mario. Anything mario besides mario kart. Metal Gear. I just can't get into the MG games. Same with the metroid games.

Madame Adequate
02-11-2007, 07:37 PM
For you people who say Halo is hard, go play 00 Agent Mode on Golden Eye. That is hard.

My friend, who couldn't beat a half decent Halo player if his life depended on it, and who rarely plays any FPS's at all, beat the game, both of them, with minimal difficulty on Legendary. As did just about every other Halo player I know. There is nothing difficult about Halo unless you're in Multiplayer.

Halo 2? On Legendary? Beaten by a below-average player? Either there's BS here, or it took a retardedly long time. The original got pretty easy once you got the hang of it - the second did not. And anyway what's so wonderful about it being really difficult? That's not an inherently good thing, in fact that usually works against something. Also, Mythic difficulty.

Half-life was so uninteresting that I used god mode after getting halfway through, just to see the end of it. After so much hype about it I figured I must have been missing something, or that staying the course would reward me - it didn't. So yeah, I consider it overrated, because everyone talks about what a great plot it has, when I barely even see a plot:

Scientists mess around with something they shouldn't. Disaster ensues. Only one person is capable of cleaning it up. He is attacked not only by whatever consequences there are of the mess itself, but also whoever the incompetent and immoral government has sent in to clean up. Never seen that before. It's not original, but that would be okay if it were well told. Which it isn't.

Wolf Kanno
02-11-2007, 08:19 PM
Though I would generally jump on the FFVII band wagon on this one, I feel I need to point out the other overrated FF game. (Holmes beat me to it though:mad2: ) and it would be FFX.

I can't understand why people love this game. It's an interactive movie with linear dungeons that are there for the sole reason for getting you from Cutscene A to Cutscene B. Half it's cast is just poorly written while the other half is just unlikable, and it's story is riddled with pointless plot devices that do nothing more than convulate the plot while adding nothing to it as a whole. I still believe that FFX is Squenix's tech demo for the PS2. It was only made to show what the PS2 was capable of, not to actually create a good game or story.

I have to disagree with this. I thought X had by far the best characters, plot, and most importantly gameplay* of any FF to date, and still does. It was horrendously linear, I can't deny that, and I think that works strongly against it. But I think it's the best work Square's done on the series to date, tbh.

*Advanced version Sphere Grid = teh wins.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I feel FFX is the worst installment of the main FF series. After making something as good as FFIX, they turn around and make a game that would have barely cut it ten years ago? I can't let it slide.

Shoeberto
02-11-2007, 08:28 PM
The lack of in-your-face-plot is why you rely on other people to analyze it and put together a guide (http://members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/timeline.htm) to explain it. It makes sense when you take note of those things in game.

Halo was definitely pretty at the time, but people freaked way out about it. The majority of people calling it the best game of all time were from the camp that never picked up anything other than sports games and had nothing to compare it to. I hated it at the time because no one would shut up. I can play it now and look at its strong points (of which it admittedly does have quite a few) but I really can't say it comes out on top.

HL1 is an old game. It was built on an even older engine (a heavily modified Quake 1 engine). I wish I could've played it when it came out, because its graphics definitely haven't held up for providing proper immersion. After visiting Half-life 2, though, it's an interesting thing to look back on.

To touch on FFX: I generally get in a mood to play an FF game every now and again. I beat FFX about two years ago and have had no desire to pick it up ever since I beat that last boss. It's definitely not the height of the series in terms of gameplay, characters, or overall story. It's not bad, but it definitely didn't do anything particularly outstanding other than looking pretty.

NeoCracker
02-11-2007, 08:40 PM
I have never heard of anyone having trouble with Halo 2. Perhaps I just happen to know a group of people who just happened to be very good at the game, but they get beat by the people who generally loose out early in Halo tournaments. Until now, I've never even heard this game was difficult.

And I'm not saying its bad, it was just wierd that here people kept saying Halo was difficult.

Fatal Impurity
02-11-2007, 09:11 PM
FF10 is HUGELY overrated...the sphere grid is a nightmare, the characters have little back story or histories to them, the main playable character is a whining bitch and the game concentrates way too heavily on the love story between yuna and tidus.

Another point is the doing away of the world map which was an FF staple tradition which dispersed the feeling of linearity eventhough most if not all of the FF's are linear.

I also disliked the fact that FF10 was extremely imbalanced difficulty wise due to the fact that the game was very easy for the up until the battle against Seymour on the mountain before Zanarkand. Then the game gets very difficult with you fighting some of the games hardest bosses in a fairly short time.

This not to mention the AWFUL continuation that is FF10-2 which takes the game into even more tedium.

Half life is also another game which doesnt deserve its praise...i found the story ok but the action and set pieces uninpiring...the AI was abysmal (but it was probably ok for the time) and the weapon selection and character design was also pretty bog standard. The repeditiveness was hair pullingly bad to such an extent that i couldnt bring myself to complete it due to the boredom it caused me!

Halo on the other hand was nicely designed and kept a nice tense atmosphere throughout...i'll admit it got repeditive after a while but the AI and set pieces made up for it plus the story and script was well written and executed. The character design was brilliant (especially for the time) and made the game feel like a top notch interactive sci fi action movie. Halo 2 solved some of the problems from halo 1 such as the repeditiveness and also added more excitement...but introduced another problem...it was WAY too easy.

Roto13
02-11-2007, 09:12 PM
I like the sphere grid....

Croyles
02-11-2007, 09:30 PM
FFX is great!
QSFT, EOS!

Shlup
02-11-2007, 09:55 PM
All FF games, except maybe Crystal Chronicles.

Freya
02-11-2007, 10:42 PM
Halo 2? On Legendary? Beaten by a below-average player? Either there's BS here, or it took a retardedly long time. The original got pretty easy once you got the hang of it - the second did not. And anyway what's so wonderful about it being really difficult? That's not an inherently good thing, in fact that usually works against something. Also, Mythic difficulty.

Um, I've only picked up the halo games a few times and I beat 2 on legendary in one sitting. Didn't take long, just I had to be more careful.

I thought halo was good but got talked about too much. I was thinking the same thing for Gears of war but I hadn't played it so I couldn't judge it. When I did play it and I loved it.

Personally I'm not a fan of the more popular FF games. As in 6,7,8 and 11. I found that they were overhyped then when I did play them they didn't live up to the expectations everyone had set for them.

Any of the Need for Speed games. You drive around a track, fast. Not much too it.

Fable. Awesome game, way too short. Would have been better if they made it longer.

I liked X. I thought the sphere grid was a cool idea. I like XII, it's pretty and it doesn't conentrate on one character which most of you complain about all the other ff's. Which makes no sense why you don't like this one.

There's prolly more but I can't think of anymore right now.

Pete for President
02-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Any of the Need for Speed games. You drive around a track, fast. Not much too it.



word!

Madame Adequate
02-11-2007, 10:58 PM
FF10 is HUGELY overrated...the sphere grid is a nightmare, the characters have little back story or histories to them, the main playable character is a whining bitch and the game concentrates way too heavily on the love story between yuna and tidus.

I agree that it focuses too much on Tidus/Yuna, but seriously. Wakka, Lulu, Kimahri, and the entire Al Bhed all have totally awesome stories. And the story itself has like the second best "Oh snaps" I can remember seeing in a game (The best being in Star Ocean 3).


I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I feel FFX is the worst installment of the main FF series. After making something as good as FFIX, they turn around and make a game that would have barely cut it ten years ago? I can't let it slide.

Yeah, I think we'll just have to go our seperate ways on this issue, because I think FFIX is the worst in the main series (Or at least the modern ones, I've not really played 1-4 enough to judge them fairly). It seems that fans tend to split between VI/IX and VII/X. (People who rate VIII highest are kinda... weird... and thus I discount them. :p) Anyway, I don't care to analyse the elements that go into this, but it does seem to be a fairly strong theme.

Raistlin
02-11-2007, 11:07 PM
It seems that fans tend to split between VI/IX and VII/X.

I like VII, but VI is way better than X. IX isn't great, but it's still better than X.

Pete for President
02-11-2007, 11:16 PM
FF10 is HUGELY overrated...the sphere grid is a nightmare, the characters have little back story or histories to them, the main playable character is a whining bitch and the game concentrates way too heavily on the love story between yuna and tidus.

I agree that it focuses too much on Tidus/Yuna, but seriously. Wakka, Lulu, Kimahri, and the entire Al Bhed all have totally awesome stories. And the story itself has like the second best "Oh snaps" I can remember seeing in a game.



I agree. The personal developements of just about every character in the party exceeds that of any others characters I know from videogames, Wakka being one of the greatest. The overall story is quite well-explained except for a few things like the pyreflies for example, but for the rest, I thought it felt like reading literature of some sort. The sphere grid does a good job filling up the boringness of auto-levelling imo.

Burnout games, very enjoyable with a group of people, but still slightly overrated.

chrisfffan
02-11-2007, 11:17 PM
Final Fantasy X, I hates everything about this game. Mario. Anything mario besides mario kart. Metal Gear. I just can't get into the MG games. Same with the metroid games.


X was ok but it was ruined by Tidus! Super Mario is one of the classic games that you cant slag off a lot like sonic or final fantasy and Metal Gear Solid is one of the best games ever!

Fatal Impurity
02-12-2007, 02:22 AM
FF10 is HUGELY overrated...the sphere grid is a nightmare, the characters have little back story or histories to them, the main playable character is a whining bitch and the game concentrates way too heavily on the love story between yuna and tidus.

I agree that it focuses too much on Tidus/Yuna, but seriously. Wakka, Lulu, Kimahri, and the entire Al Bhed all have totally awesome stories. And the story itself has like the second best "Oh snaps" I can remember seeing in a game (The best being in Star Ocean 3).

I dont think so there isnt very much backstory to nay of these characters which is a direct side effect of the story mainly concentrating on Tidus and Yuna.

Afterall Lulu = grumpy guardian who lost her first summomer. Used to love a crusader and now loves his brother.

Wakka = Used to have a crusader brother but brother died because of sin and now he loves his brothers girlfriend.

Kimahri = Has 2 ronso's on his back who used to be his friends one of which broke off his horn. Met a dying Auron at bottom of Mt Gagazet and was told to protect Yuna.

As for the Al Bhed well all they have for a story is that thier original home got destroyed by Yevon and now they scavenge technology for thier city in the Bikanel desert which they call "Home"

You call this GREAT character development...i think you are mistaken.

escobert
02-12-2007, 02:28 AM
Final Fantasy X, I hates everything about this game. Mario. Anything mario besides mario kart. Metal Gear. I just can't get into the MG games. Same with the metroid games.


X was ok but it was ruined by Tidus! Super Mario is one of the classic games that you cant slag off a lot like sonic or final fantasy and Metal Gear Solid is one of the best games ever!

I agree Tidus overall ruined it for me. I may not have disliked it so much if it were a different main character. I just dunno... I hate mario. I think all the games are crap. I just don't like them and think they suck. That's my opinion. I know most people don't agree with me. Not that most people ever do agree with me :p same with the other games. I just couldn't get into them at all.

Roto13
02-12-2007, 02:52 AM
FF10 is HUGELY overrated...the sphere grid is a nightmare, the characters have little back story or histories to them, the main playable character is a whining bitch and the game concentrates way too heavily on the love story between yuna and tidus.

I agree that it focuses too much on Tidus/Yuna, but seriously. Wakka, Lulu, Kimahri, and the entire Al Bhed all have totally awesome stories. And the story itself has like the second best "Oh snaps" I can remember seeing in a game (The best being in Star Ocean 3).

I dont think so there isnt very much backstory to nay of these characters which is a direct side effect of the story mainly concentrating on Tidus and Yuna.

Afterall Lulu = grumpy guardian who lost her first summomer. Used to love a crusader and now loves his brother.

Wakka = Used to have a crusader brother but brother died because of sin and now he loves his brothers girlfriend.

Kimahri = Has 2 ronso's on his back who used to be his friends one of which broke off his horn. Met a dying Auron at bottom of Mt Gagazet and was told to protect Yuna.

As for the Al Bhed well all they have for a story is that thier original home got destroyed by Yevon and now they scavenge technology for thier city in the Bikanel desert which they call "Home"

You call this GREAT character development...i think you are mistaken.

What's wrong with all of that?

Monol
02-12-2007, 03:37 AM
Wow i love videogames :cool: :D

Renmiri
02-12-2007, 04:01 AM
I agree that it focuses too much on Tidus/Yuna, but seriously. Wakka, Lulu, Kimahri, and the entire Al Bhed all have totally awesome stories. And the story itself has like the second best "Oh snaps" I can remember seeing in a game (The best being in Star Ocean 3).
QFT


It seems that fans tend to split between VI/IX and VII/X.

I have seen more and more FXII defenders crucify X. I guess they are jealous X beats XII hands down :D

Yuriev's ghost
02-12-2007, 04:26 AM
New Super Mario Bros is a half decent game but it was hardly the ‘ULTIMATE MARIO GAME’ like some people make it out to be. Pretty much every Mario game I’ve played is better (yes even SMB2 USA).

It amuses me to no end that FFXII of all games was the only installment in the series to gain a perfect score in Famitsu. I haven’t had so little incentive to complete an FF game since FFII. Boring characters, stale plot, stupidly broken battle system; yeah, totally the best.

Xenogears is so flawed it’s almost laughably bad at some points, yet often do I hear it being called the ‘greatest jRPG ever’. I often wonder what they saw in the game that made up for the dismal “WE WILL NARRATE THE PLOT TO YOU” second disk.

Lunar Silver Star Story Complete is filled with so much mind-numbing cliché anime bull:skull::skull::skull::skull: that it amazes me that people can stand to play more than a few hours of it. What the hell’s with that flying cat thing with the stupid voice? Did its mother get raped by a bat or something? They probably explain it at some point, I don’t care.

Perfect Dark is better than Golden Eye 64.

There are probably more.

Wolf Kanno
02-12-2007, 04:34 AM
I agree that it focuses too much on Tidus/Yuna, but seriously. Wakka, Lulu, Kimahri, and the entire Al Bhed all have totally awesome stories. And the story itself has like the second best "Oh snaps" I can remember seeing in a game (The best being in Star Ocean 3).

I have a confession about Kimahri... When I was playing FFX-2 and got to Mt. Gagazet, where you meet Kimahri again, I didn't know who he was. He kept talking like he knew my party and was part of what happened in FFX but I just could not remember him actually being in my party. I was like "You couldn't have been a playable character in FFX, I think I would have remembered a 7'6" blue cat being in my party." I literally saved the game, popped in FFX and checked to see if he was in my party and lo and behold there he was... Definetly didn't leave much of an impression on me I'm afraid...



I have seen more and more FXII defenders crucify X. I guess they are jealous X beats XII hands down :D

No, it's because the FFX fans are the first to say "FFXII SUCKS! I mean in FFX we had Tidus and Yuna making googly eyes with each other for like forty hours and Vaan and Lady Ashe have barely spoken to each other..." I decry FFX in the XII forums only when someone tries to compare the two as though FFX was the end all be all to existence, it's not...

Renmiri
02-12-2007, 05:11 AM
I have seen more and more FXII defenders crucify X. I guess they are jealous X beats XII hands down :D

No, it's because the FFX fans are the first to say "FFXII SUCKS! I mean in FFX we had Tidus and Yuna making googly eyes with each other for like forty hours and Vaan and Lady Ashe have barely spoken to each other..." I decry FFX in the XII forums only when someone tries to compare the two as though FFX was the end all be all to existence, it's not...

:p Point taken :p

But surely you agree that people who like X, which has emphasis on story and emotions and has old stale game-play just have a different taste than people who like XII which is just the opposite.

Basically if you worshipped X you won't like XII and vice-versa.

Wolf Kanno
02-12-2007, 05:21 AM
I will agree with you on that, but... I still hold to my opinion that FFX's story and characters are poorly executed and it's the game's main weakness; besides being linear and refusing to let the player even play the game...

Setzer Gabianni
02-12-2007, 06:45 AM
Since when Renmiri, can your opinion speak for everybody else? I loved X, but obviously saw better in XII. WE ALL THINK DIFFERENTLY

*bitchslaps* :D

black orb
02-12-2007, 06:53 AM
the sphere grid is a nightmare dream

Madame Adequate
02-12-2007, 07:45 AM
Perfect Dark is better than Golden Eye 64.

/seconded


Wakka = Used to have a crusader brother but brother died because of sin and now he loves his brothers girlfriend.

If you think that's all Wakka's story is, then I can pretty much discount your opinions because you've obviously not been paying attention. Same goes for the others, but this is by far the most striking example.

The Summoner of Leviathan
02-12-2007, 08:39 AM
It amuses me to no end that FFXII of all games was the only installment in the series to gain a perfect score in Famitsu. I haven’t had so little incentive to complete an FF game since FFII. Boring characters, stale plot, stupidly broken battle system; yeah, totally the best.

I would agree about the plot (I personally thought it a bit too small and thinly stretched) but I would not say that the battle system is broken. I personally loved the battle system, at times slightly annoying, but that is because I wish it could read my mind and that Fran had more gambit slots.

Yuriev's ghost
02-12-2007, 09:13 AM
Being able to defeat most bosses purely with quickenings = broken battle system.

The Summoner of Leviathan
02-12-2007, 09:18 AM
Being able to defeat most bosses purely with quickenings = broken battle system.

Between the beginning and middle of the game, I would have to agree with you, but once you get towards the end, or do any of the harder hunts, that becomes far from the case.

Also that is only one aspect of the whole battle system. Most people do not bother with quickenings since they drain your MP and somewhat based on agility and luck.

Ishin Ookami
02-12-2007, 10:13 AM
Resident Evil 4: Not an overly bad game, but not the quantum leap everyone made it out to be. How come there was no strafe or dodge options, seemed like the same ol crap just with a few upgrades to me.

Gotta roffle @ u for this. RE4 was exactly as big a deal as it was made out to be. If you played the earlier ones at all, you'd know this and you certainly wouldn't say it's just the same old crap. And yes, there is a dodge option, it's just contextual.

you gotta love fanboy logic. Now if I didn't play any past RE titles, how would I know that RE4 wasn't such a quantum leap? only differences is the aiming is more precise, thanks to the game taking MGS's aiming system, and now your fighting cultists on crack. Oh yah, and the game is more like contra instead of survival horror. You still control like a tank, cant dodge, can't strafe, and cant get around effectively. Saying the dodge is contextual is just fanboy speak for during specific sequences, which is still whack. I did like the fact it's more action oriented, and the quest was long. It wasn't at all horrible, just not awesome. And definitely not the quantum leap that the reviewers were paid to make it out to be.

And as for the whole FF debate, allow me to chip in my 2 cents worth.

Sakaguchi's name as script writer or director = awesome

Nomura's or kitase's name as director or script writer = awful

Yuriev's ghost
02-12-2007, 10:17 AM
Between the beginning and middle of the game, I would have to agree with you, but once you get towards the end, or do any of the harder hunts, that becomes far from the case.

Also that is only one aspect of the whole battle system. Most people do not bother with quickenings since they drain your MP and somewhat based on agility and luck.

I got up to Old Archadies before I gave up, which is pretty far into the game from what I've heard. Every boss up until that point followed the same basic protocol:

1. Use Quickening Chain with party one (half the time this was enough)

2. Use Quickening Chain with party two.

3. Finish off boss with physical attacks (usually not required)

The only boss that didn't follow this forumula was Elder Drake, in which the following comes into play before 3:

2 1/3: User ethers

2 2/3: Use Quickening chain with 2 party again.

When I wasn't killing bosses, all I ever needed were physical attacks and curative magic. This leaves every type of magic except white and all skills untouched by me, purely because I never needed them. FFXII is basically the new FFVIII.

Madame Adequate
02-12-2007, 11:02 AM
you gotta love fanboy logic. Now if I didn't play any past RE titles, how would I know that RE4 wasn't such a quantum leap? only differences is the aiming is more precise, thanks to the game taking MGS's aiming system, and now your fighting cultists on crack. Oh yah, and the game is more like contra instead of survival horror. You still control like a tank, cant dodge, can't strafe, and cant get around effectively. Saying the dodge is contextual is just fanboy speak for during specific sequences, which is still whack. I did like the fact it's more action oriented, and the quest was long. It wasn't at all horrible, just not awesome. And definitely not the quantum leap that the reviewers were paid to make it out to be.

I don't even know how to answer this. You can certainly say RE4 wasn't as good as is made out, I'd disagree but that's ultimately a question of personal taste. If you're seriously suggesting that there was little significant progression between 3/Code Veronica and 4, however, then I don't know what to say, except that I disagree and that I've been a player of the series since the original was released on the PS1. I found 4 to be a massive, and hugely refreshing, change, that completely abandoned the old notion of always dodging as many enemies as possible in favor of blowing them away, added a huge number of new ways to fight stuff (Rather than just bugging them out by standing slightly out of reach and knifing them), and was generally a frakking great game that revitalized a flagging series.

Hell, just read what wikipedia says on it;

Resident Evil 4's game mechanics have been completely revamped to incorporate fast-paced gunplay, quick controls and shootouts involving massive crowds of enemies in large open areas. This, combined with an abundance of healing items and ammunition is the polar opposite of previous Resident Evil games. Previous titles in the series have focused on exploration and attempted to instill a sense of fear via small amounts of ammunition and healing items and deadly enemies in small, tight spaces. The player can fire more ammunition and kill more and more enemies in one playthrough of this game than in all of the other games in the franchise combined (not including the Gun Survivor sub-franchise, in which the player is deliberately given infinite pistol ammo) - a typical playthrough can result in the player killing hundreds of enemies.

Fatal Impurity
02-12-2007, 11:43 AM
Perfect Dark is better than Golden Eye 64.

/seconded


Wakka = Used to have a crusader brother but brother died because of sin and now he loves his brothers girlfriend.

If you think that's all Wakka's story is, then I can pretty much discount your opinions because you've obviously not been paying attention. Same goes for the others, but this is by far the most striking example.

ok smart guy you try to explain what Wakka's story is other than what i've already stated? FF10's character "stories" are quite simply 1 or 2 line anaemic backstories which are only there for the point of being fillers!

Pete for President
02-12-2007, 02:53 PM
Perfect Dark is better than Golden Eye 64.

/seconded


Wakka = Used to have a crusader brother but brother died because of sin and now he loves his brothers girlfriend.

If you think that's all Wakka's story is, then I can pretty much discount your opinions because you've obviously not been paying attention. Same goes for the others, but this is by far the most striking example.

ok smart guy you try to explain what Wakka's story is other than what i've already stated? FF10's character "stories" are quite simply 1 or 2 line anaemic backstories which are only there for the point of being fillers!
Wakka's background story isn't very interesting, I'll give you that, but his character development in the game is quite the contrary.

Madame Adequate
02-12-2007, 05:32 PM
Wakka's background story isn't very interesting, I'll give you that, but his character development in the game is quite the contrary.

Sank you! ^_^;

Wakka's development is interesting in two ways. Both focus on his religion. He is completely devout to begin with, it should be noted. He toes the dogmatic line on machina, Sin, and so on and so forth. And then the Maesters themselves are using machina, supplied and operated by the hated Al Bhed, to fight Sin. The Al Bhed are not cool to Wakka - you don't even tell him about the fact that Rikku's one of them, because his reaction wouldn't be so great. But then later he's riding on an airship, working with the Al Bhed, and busting into Bevelle itself to personally disrupt the wedding of a Maester. Wakka's spiritual struggle is one of the most interesting things I've seen in any game, and it's one of the best executed character arcs I've seen as well.

So you see, first of all he has to accept that his religion's leaders are hypocrits, even unsent. Secondly, he has to overcome long-standing prejudices. His entire worldview is based on something led by liars, and which ranges from being merely grossly inaccurate to outright fabrication. These are nuanced and gradual processes, and I really empathise with his struggle. Seeing how anti-religion and anti-bigotry I am, I consider it a great success that I care so much about Wakka and his development. Rationally, he should be someone I dislike strongly. It should be noted that he could serve as a microcosm for Spira, as many citizens share his piety and faith.

Wolf Kanno
02-12-2007, 10:41 PM
Damn... when did this become the FFXII forums?

Anyway, I agree that Wakka is by and far the most develpoed and well written character in the game, with the exception of Auron when you start to really think about it. My issue is, I don't like him. If Wakka was real, I would never speak to him cause we are polar opposites about the world (he comes around towards the end but that still doesn't mean I have to respect him...) It's really my issue with the game. The few characters who are well written are just unlikeable.

Also, XII's system is good. If you bother to actually use it. If you rely on Quickenings (just like the losers who rely solely on Limit Breaks in FFVII and FFVIII) Then chances are, you will never enjoy the leaps that FFXII ADB system has given to the series.

ThundagAuron
02-12-2007, 11:18 PM
God of War. Nowhere near the 9.8 or whatever IGN gave it. I played on Hard and beat it within a week. The music/graphics were great, the gameplay was fun but DMC3 was WAY better, IMO. Not to mention, God of War felt kinda like work, too, dunno why...

My .02

Auragaea
02-13-2007, 12:11 AM
FF10 is HUGELY overrated...the sphere grid is a nightmare, the characters have little back story or histories to them, the main playable character is a whining bitch and the game concentrates way too heavily on the love story between yuna and tidus.

I agree that it focuses too much on Tidus/Yuna, but seriously. Wakka, Lulu, Kimahri, and the entire Al Bhed all have totally awesome stories. And the story itself has like the second best "Oh snaps" I can remember seeing in a game (The best being in Star Ocean 3).

I dont think so there isnt very much backstory to nay of these characters which is a direct side effect of the story mainly concentrating on Tidus and Yuna.

Afterall Lulu = grumpy guardian who lost her first summomer. Used to love a crusader and now loves his brother.

Wakka = Used to have a crusader brother but brother died because of sin and now he loves his brothers girlfriend.

Kimahri = Has 2 ronso's on his back who used to be his friends one of which broke off his horn. Met a dying Auron at bottom of Mt Gagazet and was told to protect Yuna.

As for the Al Bhed well all they have for a story is that thier original home got destroyed by Yevon and now they scavenge technology for thier city in the Bikanel desert which they call "Home"

You call this GREAT character development...i think you are mistaken.

As it has been said time and time again, every single game created can be oversimplified in such a manner whether it be music, storyline, characters, etc. You'll have to do better to create a more effective argument. IMO, FFX was mediocre.

Fatal Impurity
02-13-2007, 01:36 AM
Wakka's background story isn't very interesting, I'll give you that, but his character development in the game is quite the contrary.

Sank you! ^_^;

Wakka's development is interesting in two ways. Both focus on his religion. He is completely devout to begin with, it should be noted. He toes the dogmatic line on machina, Sin, and so on and so forth. And then the Maesters themselves are using machina, supplied and operated by the hated Al Bhed, to fight Sin. The Al Bhed are not cool to Wakka - you don't even tell him about the fact that Rikku's one of them, because his reaction wouldn't be so great. But then later he's riding on an airship, working with the Al Bhed, and busting into Bevelle itself to personally disrupt the wedding of a Maester. Wakka's spiritual struggle is one of the most interesting things I've seen in any game, and it's one of the best executed character arcs I've seen as well.

So you see, first of all he has to accept that his religion's leaders are hypocrits, even unsent. Secondly, he has to overcome long-standing prejudices. His entire worldview is based on something led by liars, and which ranges from being merely grossly inaccurate to outright fabrication. These are nuanced and gradual processes, and I really empathise with his struggle. Seeing how anti-religion and anti-bigotry I am, I consider it a great success that I care so much about Wakka and his development. Rationally, he should be someone I dislike strongly. It should be noted that he could serve as a microcosm for Spira, as many citizens share his piety and faith.

ok i give you it with Wakka...his development wasnt soooooo bad but i cant think of any of the other characters that even come close to that depth other than Auron...can you?

Yuriev's ghost
02-13-2007, 02:40 AM
Also, XII's system is good. If you bother to actually use it. If you rely on Quickenings (just like the losers who rely solely on Limit Breaks in FFVII and FFVIII) Then chances are, you will never enjoy the leaps that FFXII ADB system has given to the series.
A system that allows you abuse one aspect of it in order to easily win battles is still fundamentally broken, no matter which way you look at it.

Cruise Control
02-13-2007, 02:53 AM
That reminds me of FF8.

Roto13
02-13-2007, 03:17 AM
Wakka's background story isn't very interesting, I'll give you that, but his character development in the game is quite the contrary.

Sank you! ^_^;

Wakka's development is interesting in two ways. Both focus on his religion. He is completely devout to begin with, it should be noted. He toes the dogmatic line on machina, Sin, and so on and so forth. And then the Maesters themselves are using machina, supplied and operated by the hated Al Bhed, to fight Sin. The Al Bhed are not cool to Wakka - you don't even tell him about the fact that Rikku's one of them, because his reaction wouldn't be so great. But then later he's riding on an airship, working with the Al Bhed, and busting into Bevelle itself to personally disrupt the wedding of a Maester. Wakka's spiritual struggle is one of the most interesting things I've seen in any game, and it's one of the best executed character arcs I've seen as well.

So you see, first of all he has to accept that his religion's leaders are hypocrits, even unsent. Secondly, he has to overcome long-standing prejudices. His entire worldview is based on something led by liars, and which ranges from being merely grossly inaccurate to outright fabrication. These are nuanced and gradual processes, and I really empathise with his struggle. Seeing how anti-religion and anti-bigotry I am, I consider it a great success that I care so much about Wakka and his development. Rationally, he should be someone I dislike strongly. It should be noted that he could serve as a microcosm for Spira, as many citizens share his piety and faith.

ok i give you it with Wakka...his development wasnt soooooo bad but i cant think of any of the other characters that even come close to that depth other than Auron...can you?

Tidus.

Fatal Impurity
02-13-2007, 06:12 AM
Wakka's background story isn't very interesting, I'll give you that, but his character development in the game is quite the contrary.

Sank you! ^_^;

Wakka's development is interesting in two ways. Both focus on his religion. He is completely devout to begin with, it should be noted. He toes the dogmatic line on machina, Sin, and so on and so forth. And then the Maesters themselves are using machina, supplied and operated by the hated Al Bhed, to fight Sin. The Al Bhed are not cool to Wakka - you don't even tell him about the fact that Rikku's one of them, because his reaction wouldn't be so great. But then later he's riding on an airship, working with the Al Bhed, and busting into Bevelle itself to personally disrupt the wedding of a Maester. Wakka's spiritual struggle is one of the most interesting things I've seen in any game, and it's one of the best executed character arcs I've seen as well.

So you see, first of all he has to accept that his religion's leaders are hypocrits, even unsent. Secondly, he has to overcome long-standing prejudices. His entire worldview is based on something led by liars, and which ranges from being merely grossly inaccurate to outright fabrication. These are nuanced and gradual processes, and I really empathise with his struggle. Seeing how anti-religion and anti-bigotry I am, I consider it a great success that I care so much about Wakka and his development. Rationally, he should be someone I dislike strongly. It should be noted that he could serve as a microcosm for Spira, as many citizens share his piety and faith.

ok i give you it with Wakka...his development wasnt soooooo bad but i cant think of any of the other characters that even come close to that depth other than Auron...can you?

Tidus.

HA! your calling Tidus DEVELOPED! Man you've gotta be joking me...i don't think i've had that much of a laugh in a while!

Setzer Gabianni
02-13-2007, 09:30 AM
Then explain why he isn't developed then.

Wolf Kanno
02-13-2007, 09:36 AM
Also, XII's system is good. If you bother to actually use it. If you rely on Quickenings (just like the losers who rely solely on Limit Breaks in FFVII and FFVIII) Then chances are, you will never enjoy the leaps that FFXII ADB system has given to the series.
A system that allows you abuse one aspect of it in order to easily win battles is still fundamentally broken, no matter which way you look at it.

Then only FFI, FFIV and FFIX are not broken systems in your eyes? Every other FF game can be horribly abused.

Yuriev's ghost
02-13-2007, 09:46 AM
Only FFVIII gives FFXII a running in the "I can kill bosses with like 2 uber attacks" category. All the rest (Gil Toss, Aeon Spamming, Dark Knight Dressphere etc) just make battles that would have otherwise been rather challenging fairly easy.

And I can't think of anything in FFIII that can be abused. There is the Ninja/Sage jobs from the original, but that wasn't so much "they make the game easy" as it was "they make the make the final boss less insane".

Slothy
02-13-2007, 11:54 AM
HA! your calling Tidus DEVELOPED! Man you've gotta be joking me...i don't think i've had that much of a laugh in a while!

Did you even watch the story sequences from FFX? If Roto hadn't beaten me to it, I was going to say Tidus as well. Heck, just about every character in hat game had a lot of character development if you ask me. Moreso than characters in just about any other game out there.


Only FFVIII gives FFXII a running in the "I can kill bosses with like 2 uber attacks" category. All the rest (Gil Toss, Aeon Spamming, Dark Knight Dressphere etc) just make battles that would have otherwise been rather challenging fairly easy.

Just because most of the other games don't let you kill a boss in two attacks (heck, in my game for FFXII, it's impossible for me to kill a boss in two attacks since I only use three characters. Only two of the others even have a quickening unlocked, but I digress) doesn't mean the games aren't rediculously easy thanks to their overpowered abilities. FFVI let's you spam Ultima like crazy to kill anything in a few rounds. FFVII has more abuseable strategies than I can even count. FFX is easy without even over-leveling or getting ultimate weapons. As long as all you have is the likes of Anima and the Magus sisters, you can beat anything short of the arena creatures without any trouble at all. I left out FFV and anything prior to FFIV simply because I'm not familiar enough with them despite having played them all. Almost every FF game can be horribly abused in some way that takes all of the challenge out of the game to the same degree abusing quickenings in FFXII or Aura in FFVIII would.

No_face
02-13-2007, 12:16 PM
I'm probably going to get flammed out for this, But almost ALL FF games are pretty overrated.
I have no idea why any of you enjoy the whole " Lets stand...choose attacks...and wait for them to happen" I can't stand it, ticks the hell outta me. Only FF i give anything to is VII, and thats for good storyline/plot ect.
REAL TIME BATTLE IS KING!

Also, Xenosaga was a totally over enthused game, the system is horrible, the story makes little to no sense, and the character are very generic in terms of it's genre. The battle system again, is alittle to lame for my taste, if and when i attack something or someone, i'd like my key sequence to match it, and not wait around for it to happen with some very lame attack-scene animation/ scene. Alittle of those are okay, but after seeing the same attack sequence clip about 30 times does get annoying.

Yuriev's ghost
02-13-2007, 01:09 PM
Just because most of the other games don't let you kill a boss in two attacks (heck, in my game for FFXII, it's impossible for me to kill a boss in two attacks since I only use three characters. Only two of the others even have a quickening unlocked, but I digress) doesn't mean the games aren't rediculously easy thanks to their overpowered abilities. FFVI let's you spam Ultima like crazy to kill anything in a few rounds. FFVII has more abuseable strategies than I can even count. FFX is easy without even over-leveling or getting ultimate weapons. As long as all you have is the likes of Anima and the Magus sisters, you can beat anything short of the arena creatures without any trouble at all. I left out FFV and anything prior to FFIV simply because I'm not familiar enough with them despite having played them all. Almost every FF game can be horribly abused in some way that takes all of the challenge out of the game to the same degree abusing quickenings in FFXII or Aura in FFVIII would.
I'm not really going to bother debating this since I tend to agree with you that most later FF games were poorly thought out when it comes to how easy it is to abuse the battle system. I will point out though that all the things you listed are issues that only arise toward the end of their respective games. The ridiculously overpowered nature of limit breaks is a problem from the start in FFVIII. Quickenings are a problem from around about the boss battle on the Airship Leviathan.

Ishin Ookami
02-13-2007, 02:57 PM
you gotta love fanboy logic. Now if I didn't play any past RE titles, how would I know that RE4 wasn't such a quantum leap? only differences is the aiming is more precise, thanks to the game taking MGS's aiming system, and now your fighting cultists on crack. Oh yah, and the game is more like contra instead of survival horror. You still control like a tank, cant dodge, can't strafe, and cant get around effectively. Saying the dodge is contextual is just fanboy speak for during specific sequences, which is still whack. I did like the fact it's more action oriented, and the quest was long. It wasn't at all horrible, just not awesome. And definitely not the quantum leap that the reviewers were paid to make it out to be.

I don't even know how to answer this. You can certainly say RE4 wasn't as good as is made out, I'd disagree but that's ultimately a question of personal taste. If you're seriously suggesting that there was little significant progression between 3/Code Veronica and 4, however, then I don't know what to say, except that I disagree and that I've been a player of the series since the original was released on the PS1. I found 4 to be a massive, and hugely refreshing, change, that completely abandoned the old notion of always dodging as many enemies as possible in favor of blowing them away, added a huge number of new ways to fight stuff (Rather than just bugging them out by standing slightly out of reach and knifing them), and was generally a frakking great game that revitalized a flagging series.

Hell, just read what wikipedia says on it;

Resident Evil 4's game mechanics have been completely revamped to incorporate fast-paced gunplay, quick controls and shootouts involving massive crowds of enemies in large open areas. This, combined with an abundance of healing items and ammunition is the polar opposite of previous Resident Evil games. Previous titles in the series have focused on exploration and attempted to instill a sense of fear via small amounts of ammunition and healing items and deadly enemies in small, tight spaces. The player can fire more ammunition and kill more and more enemies in one playthrough of this game than in all of the other games in the franchise combined (not including the Gun Survivor sub-franchise, in which the player is deliberately given infinite pistol ammo) - a typical playthrough can result in the player killing hundreds of enemies.

First of all, Wikipedia is a website where anyone can contribute an opinion, and it will be posted so long as it contains new info and thoughts. So don't believe everything you read. Heck, even professional critics can have their opinions bought out at times. I personally concider Advent Children to be a complete and utter piece of crap, yet in December we were having critics review the film, stating they were reviewing the PSP version which wasn't even distributed until April. If sony and/or square hadn't paid for them to say this, they could have sued them for false advertising and generating hype as I'm sure they received many complaints when the release was pushed back, and even more when it was actually released. Then there is the whole "Halo was the greatest FPS of it's time" racket. To which I give the raspberry as It would have been a mediocre playing FPS even five years prior to it's release. Trust me, opinions get bought all the time in this industry.

Second of all, the only thing that kept me playing the game was the contra like aspect of "shoot em all and let the high score sort em out" that RE4 subscribed too. That was the only thing that made it any fun at all. The story was complete crap, I'm still trying to figure out what ADA is doing on a mercenary mission while wearing a cocktail dress, and the controls to move your character around were still tank like. Which by that point in the industry was inexcusable. In prior RE titles, I hated having to pull out of aiming mode and wiggling the control stick aimlessly whenever an enemy attacked in the feeble hopes that my character would avoid it. That was still the order of the day in RE4.

And while I'm picking apart the game, the game could have put more technique in there while fighting enemies. all minor enemies can be taken out with the same formula; head shot to knock em off balance, leg shot to knock em to the ground, continuous head shots until the head pops, and lather rinse repeat. Shotguns for large crowds and big enemies, and sinper for far away shots. I'm sorry but capcom has done so much better in the past, I prefer a game that subscribes to technique, where there are different ways to take down different enemies. This helps to keep the player on his toes, and from getting bored. And I also found most of the boss battles to be pretty mundane, I really think capcom could have done better instead of subscribing to formula.

I think it's a fun game overall, just not the end all and be all some make it out to be. You'd have to be a super fan of the franchise (which I'm not, I long defected to Fatal Frame for my survival horror kicks) to think RE4 was a quantum leap in terms of gameplay. It was an improvement, a evolution for the franchise, but not a drastic one.

Madame Adequate
02-13-2007, 06:25 PM
First of all, Wikipedia is a website where anyone can contribute an opinion, and it will be posted so long as it contains new info and thoughts.

And that's why Wikipedia is almost as accurate as the Encyclopedia Britannia, I assume? What I posted accurately sums up how I see the series. I do not see how the paradigm shift from avoiding enemies in cramped environments to shooting as many as possible in much more open environments is anything other than a major change.


So don't believe everything you read. Heck, even professional critics can have their opinions bought out at times. I personally concider Advent Children to be a complete and utter piece of crap, yet in December we were having critics review the film, stating they were reviewing the PSP version which wasn't even distributed until April. If sony and/or square hadn't paid for them to say this, they could have sued them for false advertising and generating hype as I'm sure they received many complaints when the release was pushed back, and even more when it was actually released. Then there is the whole "Halo was the greatest FPS of it's time" racket. To which I give the raspberry as It would have been a mediocre playing FPS even five years prior to it's release. Trust me, opinions get bought all the time in this industry.

Ah, I see. If someone disagrees with you, they've been bought out. :rolleyes2


I think it's a fun game overall, just not the end all and be all some make it out to be. You'd have to be a super fan of the franchise (which I'm not, I long defected to Fatal Frame for my survival horror kicks) to think RE4 was a quantum leap in terms of gameplay. It was an improvement, a evolution for the franchise, but not a drastic one.

I don't even consider RE4 survival horror, it's an action game with vague survival horror elements. Fatal Frame and Silent Hill are far, far superior if you're after scares. And... wouldn't a super fan of the franchise be rather MORE qualified to make a comment on how much of an advancement it has been?

Gnostic Yevon
02-13-2007, 09:54 PM
I think FF7 is one of the most overrated.

The story was completely predictable. If you'd read the Dune series, nothing about Makou or Jenova Cells was new. Spice gives you power, Makou does the same. Spice gives you glowing blue eyes, so does Makou.

Aeris was pretty much a throwaway character. She was designed to be cute, nothing more. She doesn't seem to have any real opinions on anything. Tifa was better. As for the rest of the crew -- Cid was the only one that had a slightly more than 1-dimensional personality. Barret doesn't change much from beginning to end, nor does Tifa, nor Yuffie really.

Sephiroth wasn't all that great of a bad guy either. He's another experiment that goes haywire. Wow. I've never seen that in Anime before.

The levels aren't too bad, but since the levels are made by using images, it's hard to tell where you can go.

________________________________________________________

My other overrated game is Xenosaga. It's not a game. It's a 40-hour cut scene. And even when they let you play it (in a game, imagine that), the tasks are very similar. In several cases, you go to one area of the ship, then watch a cut scene, then travel back to the same location. And many of the missions are just plain stupid "bring the captain his dinner?" jeez, what do I look like? roomservice?

Pete for President
02-13-2007, 11:00 PM
Wakka's background story isn't very interesting, I'll give you that, but his character development in the game is quite the contrary.

Sank you! ^_^;

Wakka's development is interesting in two ways. Both focus on his religion. He is completely devout to begin with, it should be noted. He toes the dogmatic line on machina, Sin, and so on and so forth. And then the Maesters themselves are using machina, supplied and operated by the hated Al Bhed, to fight Sin. The Al Bhed are not cool to Wakka - you don't even tell him about the fact that Rikku's one of them, because his reaction wouldn't be so great. But then later he's riding on an airship, working with the Al Bhed, and busting into Bevelle itself to personally disrupt the wedding of a Maester. Wakka's spiritual struggle is one of the most interesting things I've seen in any game, and it's one of the best executed character arcs I've seen as well.

So you see, first of all he has to accept that his religion's leaders are hypocrits, even unsent. Secondly, he has to overcome long-standing prejudices. His entire worldview is based on something led by liars, and which ranges from being merely grossly inaccurate to outright fabrication. These are nuanced and gradual processes, and I really empathise with his struggle. Seeing how anti-religion and anti-bigotry I am, I consider it a great success that I care so much about Wakka and his development. Rationally, he should be someone I dislike strongly. It should be noted that he could serve as a microcosm for Spira, as many citizens share his piety and faith.

You've said it all, I totally agree.

Auragaea
02-14-2007, 06:40 PM
Katamari Damacy is another overrated game. Although it was fun, it got tedious quickly when I found out the only thing to do in the game was roll a giant ball and pick up things. We Love Katamari remedied this by having certain stages consist of rolling up certain items instead of it just being get the ball to a certain height by a certain time. Also, the music in the game was good, but a lot of people claim it to be one of the best OSTs in the gaming world, but it isn't close IMO.

DK
02-14-2007, 06:51 PM
Wakka's background story isn't very interesting, I'll give you that, but his character development in the game is quite the contrary.

Sank you! ^_^;

Wakka's development is interesting in two ways. Both focus on his religion. He is completely devout to begin with, it should be noted. He toes the dogmatic line on machina, Sin, and so on and so forth. And then the Maesters themselves are using machina, supplied and operated by the hated Al Bhed, to fight Sin. The Al Bhed are not cool to Wakka - you don't even tell him about the fact that Rikku's one of them, because his reaction wouldn't be so great. But then later he's riding on an airship, working with the Al Bhed, and busting into Bevelle itself to personally disrupt the wedding of a Maester. Wakka's spiritual struggle is one of the most interesting things I've seen in any game, and it's one of the best executed character arcs I've seen as well.

So you see, first of all he has to accept that his religion's leaders are hypocrits, even unsent. Secondly, he has to overcome long-standing prejudices. His entire worldview is based on something led by liars, and which ranges from being merely grossly inaccurate to outright fabrication. These are nuanced and gradual processes, and I really empathise with his struggle. Seeing how anti-religion and anti-bigotry I am, I consider it a great success that I care so much about Wakka and his development. Rationally, he should be someone I dislike strongly. It should be noted that he could serve as a microcosm for Spira, as many citizens share his piety and faith.

Wakka is definitely my favourite character from that game. Not only the religious aspect of him, but I also like the mini-story of him and Chappu and Lulu, and also how that ties into his Blitzball, which is another fun part. (I refuse to lose the Blitzball game because we have to finally get Wakka that win! :()

Wolf Kanno
02-14-2007, 07:54 PM
I would argue the abuse of Limit Breaks started in FFVII. They build up faster in that game than any other FF their in, there's an item that allows you to make it build up faster (sometimes after one minor hit) and even the non-multi hit Limit Breaks are overpowered, especially since they come way too frequently... FFVIII may get the hate for abusive Limit Breaks but it really started in FFVII...

As for Tidus being well written... I would mostly say yes, except for one tiny (make that major) issue. Tidus' plot twist...

All right children, today Wolf is going to explain to you about a literary device we call the "Deus ex Machina" it gains it's origins from Greek plays. In those plays, sometimes the writers wanted a specific type of ending or event to happen but on the way to writing this wonderful scenario they wrote themselves into a corner. To resolve this issue they would write a god to come in and fix the situation so the story could go back on course. This was presented in the plays by using an ancient pulley machine to lower a statue of a god onto the stage, thus machine god or deus ex machina. See you learned something and "knowing is half the battle"

Warning spoilers...

Tidus' plot twist regarding him coming from the dream world created by the faeyth one of these scenarios. Not only does it make the writer's escape from having to explain why Tidus' is a thousand years in the future but it also builds up for the "twist" ending. Instead of seeing Yuna die, we get to watch Tidus cease to exist. Still a sappy ending to a boring love story. Anyway... it's only place their to resolve one writing issue and to create another improbable one. The real bad thing about it, is the fact it leads to more confusing questions. Is Tidus real? Did he exist in the past or was he solely created in the dream world? If he doesn't really exist, how can Jecht (who is also part of this whole mess) become an aeon? What are the qualifications to become an aeon? What is reality?

Oh wait, the last one was never touched upon in the game. I forgot, this plot twist was also put in to be some pretentious bull:skull::skull::skull::skull: so people could talk about the philisophical complexities of the game. Even though in reality it isn't relevant to anything in the story. This is just as bad as Tifa's confession and the "We're all childhood friends" plot twist from FFVII and FFVIII.

Beyond that, he's not too terribly written...

Fatal Impurity
02-14-2007, 08:14 PM
Another over rated game i think is the Shenmues for the Dreamcast...granted they are good and i own the first Shenmue but it doesnt represent a complete revolutionary leap in gaming as we know it like the mags and Sega made out at the time of its release...

Croyles
02-15-2007, 12:49 PM
I would argue the abuse of Limit Breaks started in FFVII. They build up faster in that game than any other FF their in, there's an item that allows you to make it build up faster (sometimes after one minor hit) and even the non-multi hit Limit Breaks are overpowered, especially since they come way too frequently... FFVIII may get the hate for abusive Limit Breaks but it really started in FFVII...

As for Tidus being well written... I would mostly say yes, except for one tiny (make that major) issue. Tidus' plot twist...

All right children, today Wolf is going to explain to you about a literary device we call the "Deus ex Machina" it gains it's origins from Greek plays. In those plays, sometimes the writers wanted a specific type of ending or event to happen but on the way to writing this wonderful scenario they wrote themselves into a corner. To resolve this issue they would write a god to come in and fix the situation so the story could go back on course. This was presented in the plays by using an ancient pulley machine to lower a statue of a god onto the stage, thus machine god or deus ex machina. See you learned something and "knowing is half the battle"

Warning spoilers...

Tidus' plot twist regarding him coming from the dream world created by the faeyth one of these scenarios. Not only does it make the writer's escape from having to explain why Tidus' is a thousand years in the future but it also builds up for the "twist" ending. Instead of seeing Yuna die, we get to watch Tidus cease to exist. Still a sappy ending to a boring love story. Anyway... it's only place their to resolve one writing issue and to create another improbable one. The real bad thing about it, is the fact it leads to more confusing questions. Is Tidus real? Did he exist in the past or was he solely created in the dream world? If he doesn't really exist, how can Jecht (who is also part of this whole mess) become an aeon? What are the qualifications to become an aeon? What is reality?

Oh wait, the last one was never touched upon in the game. I forgot, this plot twist was also put in to be some pretentious bull:skull::skull::skull::skull: so people could talk about the philisophical complexities of the game. Even though in reality it isn't relevant to anything in the story. This is just as bad as Tifa's confession and the "We're all childhood friends" plot twist from FFVII and FFVIII.

Beyond that, he's not too terribly written...

Well, it looks like we have our very own Goethe in the forums!
How can you know that they wrote themselves into a corner? You CANT! Anyway, every Final Fantasy has these cheesy plot twists, yes EVEN Final Fantasy VI. Yet I still like every FF apart from FFX-2.
The Limit Break bar in FF7 never filled up in one hit unless it was a move that should of actually killed you.

Wolf Kanno
02-16-2007, 01:23 AM
Well, it looks like we have our very own Goethe in the forums!
How can you know that they wrote themselves into a corner? You CANT! Anyway, every Final Fantasy has these cheesy plot twists, yes EVEN Final Fantasy VI. Yet I still like every FF apart from FFX-2.
The Limit Break bar in FF7 never filled up in one hit unless it was a move that should of actually killed you.

I'm no where near being a modern day Goethe;) As for the twist being due to writing issues or just a sad writer's over-active imagination is completely debatable and will generally come down to personal opinion. Yes I understand that odd and weird plot twist's are a reluctant tradition in the FF series going all the way back to the beginiing. I just feel this is one of the worst in the series.

I'm just venting frustration cause this was the moment that killed any hope of this game redeeming itself storywise for me. So please don't personally attack me cause I'm stating an opinion. I don't mind you refuting my statements but patronizing, name calling? I'll try to be more civil and I'm sorry if I offended you. It's just difficult for me not to get worked up cause this game really irritates me.

Old Manus
02-16-2007, 07:55 AM
This thread got boring after the tl;dr kicked in

And posting stuff like improves it? You know better. ~ Leeza

Madame Adequate
02-16-2007, 09:29 AM
Katamari Damacy is another overrated game. Although it was fun, it got tedious quickly when I found out the only thing to do in the game was roll a giant ball and pick up things. We Love Katamari remedied this by having certain stages consist of rolling up certain items instead of it just being get the ball to a certain height by a certain time. Also, the music in the game was good, but a lot of people claim it to be one of the best OSTs in the gaming world, but it isn't close IMO.

I think it has one of the best OSTs for anything ever, not just gaming. I also think it's freaking fantastic and I'd be inclined to put it in the underrated thread :p


I would argue the abuse of Limit Breaks started in FFVII. They build up faster in that game than any other FF their in, there's an item that allows you to make it build up faster (sometimes after one minor hit) and even the non-multi hit Limit Breaks are overpowered, especially since they come way too frequently... FFVIII may get the hate for abusive Limit Breaks but it really started in FFVII...

Wait, what's this item? The only way to get faster limit buildups is through being in Fury, i.e. using a Hyper on someone. I've never come across any item that lets them build up in one minor hit unless you're talking about level 1 limits, in fury, in endgame.

Wolf Kanno
02-17-2007, 01:50 AM
Sorry about that, I should have restated that. "Minor" was not the right word but I've noticed with the Level 1 and 2 Limit Breaks, and a character with Fury status you can easily knock a character into full Limit Guage with an attack that can take out 1/2 your health.

I guess in a normal RPG that would be considered a lethal or at least "major" hit but in the later FF's it was rare for something to actually be able to hit you, knock your character into full limit gauge and then live to see the next round. I'll retract my statement but I still feel they were too convenient and powerful...

Ishin Ookami
02-17-2007, 08:34 AM
As for Tidus being well written... I would mostly say yes, except for one tiny (make that major) issue. Tidus' plot twist...

All right children, today Wolf is going to explain to you about a literary device we call the "Deus ex Machina" it gains it's origins from Greek plays. In those plays, sometimes the writers wanted a specific type of ending or event to happen but on the way to writing this wonderful scenario they wrote themselves into a corner. To resolve this issue they would write a god to come in and fix the situation so the story could go back on course. This was presented in the plays by using an ancient pulley machine to lower a statue of a god onto the stage, thus machine god or deus ex machina. See you learned something and "knowing is half the battle"

Warning spoilers...

Tidus' plot twist regarding him coming from the dream world created by the faeyth one of these scenarios. Not only does it make the writer's escape from having to explain why Tidus' is a thousand years in the future but it also builds up for the "twist" ending. Instead of seeing Yuna die, we get to watch Tidus cease to exist. Still a sappy ending to a boring love story. Anyway... it's only place their to resolve one writing issue and to create another improbable one. The real bad thing about it, is the fact it leads to more confusing questions. Is Tidus real? Did he exist in the past or was he solely created in the dream world? If he doesn't really exist, how can Jecht (who is also part of this whole mess) become an aeon? What are the qualifications to become an aeon? What is reality?

Beyond that, he's not too terribly written...

Actually, that is not so much as Deus Ex machina, as it is throwing in dramatic irony as well as tradgedy. During the game, we all know before Tidus does, that Yuna is fated to die. Tidus is a character who is full of life and joy, dreams and hopes. The sort of character you really can't see giving up his life, because he loves it so much. Yuna on the other hand has resolved herself to dying. A core part of her character is that she is very much afraid to live, because it will make her eventual sacrifice that much more difficult for her.

As for the main plot twist, and it's eventual impact on the story, I find it delicious. Tidus goes willingly into that good night, embracing his fate passionately, choosing to to die fighting for those that he loves. It is not so much about living, but how he chooses to live, and he refuses to live a life in fear and forcing his burdens upon others. Yuna is left to face a even more difficult life, a life of learning to truly be alive, and following her dreams. Her life mirrors that of Spira, and we feel the peoples plight and struggle because she embodies the same principles in her character, for good and for ill. The fact that Tidus was in essence, a dream given form adds a further twist of irony. Spira was a land that embraced conformity, shunning any change and rebellion, any dreams of something different and embracing it's fate. Tidus was in the most literal sense, proof that dreams and hopes could be made into reality. And Yuna, who fell in love with a dream, is only now finding the courage to hope for something better for Spira, and for herself.

You say Tidus's plot twist embodies Deus Ex Machina, but I find instead that it helps to put in the themes of role reversal, and dramatic irony into the games climax. Deus Ex Machina is commonly used to create a happy ending, and also, as you stated, get the story out of the corner tht the writer put it in. But it was obvious from the very beginning that there was something strange with Tidus's world, and it's relationship with Spira. The hymn of the faith, how did Jecht and Auron travel from both worlds, as well as that creepy kid that you often saw, are all present from the beginning and help further the mystery of Spira's connection to Zanarkand. The plot twist was hinted at many times, and obviously planned from the start. So I don't think you can rightfully call that Deus Ex Machina. Now Aeriths role in Advent Children, THAT is deus ex machina x5. But I'd rather not open that can of worms right now.

Oh yah, and the game is five years old by this point. I think that exceeds any statute of limitations, hence why I give no spoiler warnings.

Zeldy
02-17-2007, 07:46 PM
Grand Theft Auto.
totally.

Gnostic Yevon
02-17-2007, 08:57 PM
Well, it looks like we have our very own Goethe in the forums!
How can you know that they wrote themselves into a corner? You CANT! Anyway, every Final Fantasy has these cheesy plot twists, yes EVEN Final Fantasy VI. Yet I still like every FF apart from FFX-2.
The Limit Break bar in FF7 never filled up in one hit unless it was a move that should of actually killed you.

I'm no where near being a modern day Goethe;) As for the twist being due to writing issues or just a sad writer's over-active imagination is completely debatable and will generally come down to personal opinion. Yes I understand that odd and weird plot twist's are a reluctant tradition in the FF series going all the way back to the beginiing. I just feel this is one of the worst in the series.

I'm just venting frustration cause this was the moment that killed any hope of this game redeeming itself storywise for me. So please don't personally attack me cause I'm stating an opinion. I don't mind you refuting my statements but patronizing, name calling? I'll try to be more civil and I'm sorry if I offended you. It's just difficult for me not to get worked up cause this game really irritates me.

I think this is actually more of an example of "Anime conceit". What happens in a lot of Animes is that they'll throw in a plot twist that makes no sense. Everybody watching knows it makes no sense. The only reason it ends up in the story at all is that it sounds "philosophical". It would be stuff like the Xenosaga Zohars being named after the 12 apostles (and Zohar being a part of Jewish mysticism), or "zomg, life is just a dream!", or something similar. It doesn't add much to the story, in fact most of the time you can skip that part of the story and everything still makes sense. They're in the story just to make Otaku think the story is deep. I'm not sure if the Tidus thing qualifies, but they are fairly common.

Cruise Control
02-18-2007, 02:41 AM
I deem Street Fighter 2 Turbo (SNES) over-rated. I recently was playing, and realized how crap it was. The controls were lack luster, the music blows, and it isn't fun.

Wolf Kanno
02-18-2007, 02:44 AM
First, I would like to congratulate you Ishin Ookami for being the first person to actually come up with a good argument for this complaint. Just me muttering the fact I don't like FFX usually gets the fanboys and fangirls screaming and cursing my name without ever giving a well thought out argument against my complaint (Wow, it's just like when FFVII first came out all over again...) but seriously, I must commend you. Unfortunately, I feel the twist was too bizarre and came out of left field for me to honestly believe it was completely planned. At which point I have to say I completely agree with Gnostic Yevon on what it truly was.

The real problem with it, is mostly the fact that it begins to tear apart some of the logic. Was Tidus even real? I mean him and Jecht got to go with Auron at the end but that still doesn't answer the question. Hell did Tidus ever really exist? Is he based on someone real or is he a spirit of the dead trapped in the dream? But that doesn't make sense cause the Sending should have made him pass on. But as you try to answer each question it just gets more weird and strange and eventually the logic and meaning behind it gets lost. Interesting enough, this is the only complaint I have against Tidus. Yes, a FFX hater who actually likes Tidus.

Now this is not saying that you are wrong, as I stated before to Croyles, I feel this will always come down to personal opinion and never be resolved. For me, your argument is has many strong points about symbolism but once again Gnostic Yevon spoke my argument for me. It's a nice way to view Tidus being a dream but I feel that's more of your personal interpretation than what it really was. Just as my feeling about the twist has a similiar effect for you. Like I stated to I'm my own MILF, we should just agree to disagree, cause I don't see either of us changing each other's minds.;)

Ishin Ookami
02-18-2007, 07:07 AM
The real problem with it, is mostly the fact that it begins to tear apart some of the logic. Was Tidus even real? I mean him and Jecht got to go with Auron at the end but that still doesn't answer the question. Hell did Tidus ever really exist? Is he based on someone real or is he a spirit of the dead trapped in the dream? But that doesn't make sense cause the Sending should have made him pass on. But as you try to answer each question it just gets more weird and strange and eventually the logic and meaning behind it gets lost. Interesting enough, this is the only complaint I have against Tidus. Yes, a FFX hater who actually likes Tidus.

It has been roughly two years since I finished the game, so my memory is a bit sketchy, but here is how I remember it being written.

Was Tidus real? It depends on how you deem real. He was as real as the aeons. The aeons themselves were physical manfistations of the fayeth. This was made possible by them all sharing in the same dream, harnessing their telepathic power to the point where whatever they dreamed could be made real by their will. Near Zanarkand you find a massive tower of sleeping fayeth, held in a state of self imposed suspended animation ever since Zanarkand was destroyed. They have been dreaming about Zanarkand ever since, and that many sleeping fayeth made it possible for someone from spira to enter into that dream, and vice versa in the same way it was possible to pray to the fayeth and receive an aeon.

This is why the sending never actually affected Tidus or Jecht. Technically they arent dead, and they are as real as the aeons. auron on the otherhand, well you obviously see him avoid any and all contact with anything that may reveal his secret until the end. Even though there are several hints throughout the game as well.

As for your prior comment about people becoming Aeons, well as I remember it, the whole purpose of the sending was that those who do not get sent face the danger of becoming monsters, since it is possible in spira for their spirits to sort of re-incarnate itself according to the persons thoughts. Apparently it is possible for one to visit Yu Yevon (as seymores mother did) and in much the same way a sacrifice becomes the next embodiment of sin, they sacrifice themselves inorder to become a guardian as an aeon. Like I said, I don't doubt I could be wrong here as It's been two years since I played, but that is how I remember it.

Also, FFX is one of my favorite FF's. The last one I really liked, probably because it was the last project sakaguchi handled before he left square. Not that I don't have issues with the game, the voice acting ran hot and cold, and I swear Nomura was throwing a hissy fit about not being made director, and came up with his most whacked out character designs ever just to derail the game. Thats the only way I can explain religous icons wearing slut wear, or even being naked in yunalesca's case. That and Yuna really did look like she stepped out of memoirs of a geishsa, and dont even get me started on riku being jail bait, or LuLu's victory animation, or the fact that half of the leading order of spira subscribes to V-neck outfits that go down to their navals.

Better stop now before I go into a Nomura hate on rant. Again. ;)


First, I would like to congratulate you Ishin Ookami for being the first person to actually come up with a good argument for this complaint. Just me muttering the fact I don't like FFX usually gets the fanboys and fangirls screaming and cursing my name without ever giving a well thought out argument against my complaint

I hear ya on that one brother. You should check out the backlog of some of my posts on the Advent Children thread. You wanna see fanboys get hot and bothered, point out any one of the many flaws in Advent (In fact I'm hard pressed to find anything good bout the film) and the fanboys/girls will cry havok and let slip the dogs of war. As I previously stated, I find FFVII to be the poster boy for overrated in this industry. It's not really a horrible game, its perfectly adaquette and at many points, even very good. But to be blunt, I personally have never seen the appeal of Sephiroth as a villain. He burns down a village, kills a corp exec, stabs a church girl in the back and then hides in a hole for the rest of the game. Personally I think the likes of Golbuz, or even Kain from FFIV have more depth then this guy. Yet many people fawn over him and compare him to the likes of Darth Vader. I compare this to the resume of Kefka, or even Emperor Geshtahl who killed celes's mother savagely just to ensure that Terra would grow up to be the weapon he envisioned, and I wonder how can you even think to compare?

Wolf Kanno
02-18-2007, 10:14 AM
The explanation is pretty accurate but it still doesn't really answer the question of whether Tidus is real. This goes into a philisophical issue about what is defined as reality but the game sadly never bothers to elaborate to the point that I feel is satisfying or at least I can logically come to my own conclusion of. I'm just not satisfied with the answer I guess.

Glad to see we do have some common ground on our views of FFVII and Advent Children, as well as a hint of Nomura;)

For me, FFX is my least favorite in the FFseries. It's story is simple (except for the plot twist but we've been over that) but that's because it's a character driven piece. I don't like anyone but Auron, I'm indifferent to most of the cast but I especially hate Yuna (not only does she look like a geisha, she is the personification of the "ideal" woman in feudal Japan, i.e. she has the personality of drywall) If you don't like the cast and the story is too simple to to keep you interested then the gameplay is good right?

It is, I really enjoyed it but I did feel it was a little too easy but what FF isn't easy? My issue here is just the linear dungeons (a straight line? you've got to be kidding me) the fact that I barely got in a good amount of combat in before I was bombarded by another cutscene. I want to play the game, not watch an interactive soap opera. The gameplay is good but the ratio was really out of whack. Most of the minigames were tedious except for blitzball which is still quite possibly the worst minigame in the series if not in RPG's in general (my other choice being FFIX's abysmal Tetra Master...). As an FF I feel it's the worst of the main series. As an RPG it's pretty good, I've played worse games.

Ishin Ookami
02-18-2007, 12:06 PM
Glad to see we do have some common ground on our views of FFVII and Advent Children, as well as a hint of Nomura;)

I could go on and on about why I think Nomura is a overrated hack. I'll just say that if he didn't have such a crack team of animators and programmers and game designers working with him, making his games somewhat fun to play and pretty to look at, he would have been out of a job a long time ago. The man simply cannot write or direct worth a damn.


For me, FFX is my least favorite in the FFseries.

Oh I can think of worse. Final Fantasy VIII had far more banal characters, a storyline that made me laugh at how contrived and unoriginal it is "oh look, the bishojo is going to make the cold and misunderstood bishonen understand and value love. Gee, never seen that before In a hundred other anime series. Seifer was the most pathetic rival I have ever seen, and almost all the side characters were cardboard cutouts of industry stereotypes that all have about one or two scenes of expansion before they are forgotten. That said I often find it the ultimate of paradoxes that in all this terrible storytelling, there is Laguana, probably one of the coolest costars ever in a final fantasy. It was this guy that kept me playing FFVIII. Oh, and lets not even talk about the gameplay. yah i'll just draw the same spell a billion times and never use it since I need to junction it to pump up my stats. And you want poor storytelling, shall we talk about FFX-2?

As for Final Fantasy X, I like it plenty. FFX has one my favovorite plot twists ever, when Tidus tries to take the moral high ground with the summoners, talking about how they were all being used, and shouldn't have to give their lives. Then they just respond with how they know they are expected to sacrifice their lives, and that It is worth it to bring peact to so many, even if it is temporary. I would have liked it if the game had gone on for a little longer without any real moral high ground as the plot just became so much more interesting with that wrinkle.

As for the characters, Yuna is alright. I think the game made it plain that she did have a personality, it was just that she had to get out of all those years of conditioning before it arose. Her conflicted and dedicated nature I liked. Wakka and Auron were both well done, I often thought the most offensive thing about Riku was her voice actor, Lulu's demeanor and personality seemed to run counter clockwise with her character design and I think Sakaguchi had in mind a character similar to celes, beautiful but cool and restrained rather than the cleavage bearing prostitute Nomura advertised her as. Kimahri had the least development, but was still likeable and felt distinct. and I often think that the cast would have been even more likeable had square included the japanese language track. From the few clips I've heard, Tidus just sounds so much cooler than the english voice actor made him out to be.

Leeza
02-18-2007, 04:44 PM
Ishin Ookami and Wolf Kanno, if there are areas that you wish to discuss other than the actual topic of this thread, please do so by starting another thread on that topic or through some other means, but please do not take this one off track. Thank you.

Monol
03-06-2007, 01:02 AM
Ishin and Wolf...that...was awsome...though i do disagree with quite a few things you both have to say its nice to see a couple of FF fans use their powers for good...that was a highley entertaining argument to read and is the way things should be around here :D you two rock...just though you should know :cool:

Fatal Impurity
03-06-2007, 02:55 AM
Lol its seem's you two guys have a groupie! Lol as for FF10 being the worst in the series i can completly empathise with that but...there is always FF10-2...which made FF10 look good. Im not saying that FF10 was a bad game it just wasnt anywhere near the best FF with even the old SNES FF's beating the crap outta it story/character wise.

Neo-Omega Mk XXV
03-07-2007, 01:08 PM
This thread has mostly died and gone OT, but I just had to add something since I recently managed to buy two overrated games at the same time. Earlier last month I picked up MGS3 (original, not subsistence) and DQ8, mostly to tide me over until FF12 (I'm in the UK, and was waiting for the price on those games to drop). Neither of them were bad, but they were disappointing.
MGS 3 was almost ruined by the useless camera angle, the overly long durations of alert+evasion+caution modes, and the clumsy food/curing/camo interfaces. It's entirely too easy to alert the enemies unless you have incredible patience to sneak around without making mistakes. OTOH once alert mode is triggered, the enemies often behave like brain-damaged chimps, so it's possible to fight your way out with CQC anyway. In fact if it weren't for this I would just have quit the game out of frustration, but I did manage to get through it.
DQ 8 is just an above-average game that has been grossly overrated (I'm at the Dark Ruins, and have set it aside for FF12). It seems that some nebulous "old-school charm" is supposed make me ignore the stale game mechanics. RPGs should have moved away from 15 year old combat systems and game progression built around generic towns and fetch quests+errand running by now :rolleyes2.

Yuriev's ghost
03-07-2007, 01:53 PM
The Dragon Quest series has gained its success through its traditional elements and its accessibility to most gamers (ie simplicity). Like Pokemon, it will never significantly change.

Or at least that's what I would have said several months ago, before the release of promotional material for DQIX...

bipper
03-07-2007, 02:05 PM
E.T. for atari

even though everyone says it sucks...that's still way too much praise

AMEN! I would like to add WoW and all MMORPGS

forevergamer
03-14-2007, 11:28 AM
i think it would have to be splinter cell.metal gear is much more better than SC.the missions can get tiring unlike MG when you get spotted,just hide and everything will be alright.


Been a gamer since,been a gamer still...

MikeL Valentine
03-14-2007, 08:17 PM
An incredibly over-rated game is Oblivion, I like it but it doesn't worth it.

nozkits
03-14-2007, 10:19 PM
I thought Final Fantasy XII had amazing characters because only one of them in the entire game was annoying at all. That's a huge step for Final Fantasy.

Anyway, Halo gets way more praise than it deserves.

That is a huge step.

I thought the Halo series is pretty overrated. Most of the players lame, and spawn kill, and all of that other stuff. Halo in my opinion is a fancier version of Red Faction.

I saw FFX as more of a conservative values vs. liberal thoughts.

When Tidus talked to the summoners on how they shouldn't have to sacrifice their lives.. You can make the assumption that there is another way to save Spira, but one that is more long term. Of course the summoners being conservative didn't think outside of that box because they have been taught hardy traditions, and that its the way it ought to be...


Nothing wrong with that because conservatism is necessary just as much as liberalism..

Anyway I saw it in that context... The music was great on FFX btw..

FFVIII had cliched cahracters. With the exception of Laguna..

Shin Gouken
03-16-2007, 07:10 PM
I was curious as to which popular games everyone has played that they feel are generally over-rated.

I was recently playing A Link to the Past (GBA port) and it sort of inspired me to bring it up. I guess because it's one of the more highly acclaimed titles in the Zelda series.

Well, I think I first started playing ALttP a year or two ago, after it had been ported to the GameBoy Advance. I remember hearing about it back in the SNES era, but never really had the chance to play. It was okay at first, but for something be re-released as a modern title, I felt the graphics were just a bit out-dated. (which isn't necessarily a valid complaint, because it IS just a port) That aside, the biggest problem was the first major difficulty spike I encountered when entering the Dark World for the first time. It was basically a war-zone crammed full of powerful enemies. It wasn't so difficult that I couldn't eventually adapt, but for that particular moment in the game, it was a radical shift from one level to another.

The second difficulty spike came when I entered the Ice Palace. I was pretty familiar with the Dark World at that point, but the Ice Palace was taking it up a whole other notch. Between trying to keep my health up and constantly getting lost, I had to reset quite a bit. I even put the game down for months at a time due to all the discouragement. Well, after finally getting that out of the way, here comes another difficulty spike -- Ganon's almighty tower! By this time, I had managed to collect most of the upgrades in the game, but it really didn't help me much. I remember just barely managing to crawl out of there with a fraction of health left, after having gone through 4 whole Blue Potions. The worst part is having to constantly back-track after saving in the middle of the dungeon, considering how lengthy it is.

Don't get me wrong, though -- I do love a challenge. The only problem with ALttP is that there isn't enough gameplay balance between difficulty shifts. It seems like the game merely throws you into the next level and expects you to either intuitively fend for yourself, or die trying.

That aside, it seems like there are some issues with equipment balance, also. For example, although you can upgrade your sword's attack power, you can never upgrade the effect of Link's beam attack. After you venture into the Dark World, this is quite tedious as you often have to strike enemies in an excess of 5 - 10 times in order to finish them off. Other items in the inventory generally aren't that effective, either, unless the enemy has some kind of weakness to them. (such as with the Fire Rod, which comes in handy quite a bit) This often contributes to the sharp difficulty balance, as well.

As for the story, nothing new there. Of course, we are talking about an SNES classic... I wasn't expecting anything particularly innovative, or anything that I haven't already seen in later installments. But otherwise, no real complaints.

Regarding the bonus content in the GBA port, I thought some of it was pretty interesting, but too short-lived. Four Swords, for example, was really more of a mini-game that had to be completed several times over. After a while, the friend I was playing with gave up on me before I could manage to get everything unlocked! :p But I did think Four Swords was pretty fun in its own right. It did manage to spawn a few sequels, after all. (if you also count Minish Cap, which borrowed many of the game's elements)

So, that's my little ALttP rant. The game probably would have been more appealing had I been given the chance to play it back in the day, but as far as modern appeal is concerned, it could have benefitted from a few changes. But it's definitely not something I would deem worthy of "Best SNES Game Ever." I think that spot is more reserved by games like "Super Mario All-Stars," or "Kirby's Dream Land 3." Maybe even "Super Metroid" ... (which is actually another game I played way after the SNES era had ended)

I think maybe you are just bad at this game. I never found it difficult at all (exept maybe the final battle with ganon... took me a few tries because of falling down the holes)

Your sword beam becomes useless quickly but tbh why would you use it at all when you have arrows? as for trekking around the dungeons you have loads of weapons to aid you.... the magic mirror will transport you back to the beginning (though i dont know why you were doing this) the invisibility cloak or rod or err byrnia??? err can take you through rooms unharmed or use bombos, ether or quake to quickly clear rooms of enemies. Although how you managed to use four health potions and still nearly died just means you really are bad... no offense ;)