Rinoa = Ultimecia?!

[shinythin21]

While I was busy being bored, i looked up pictures of my up-coming nemesis, Ultimecia (im still playing FF8 ^^) but i forgotten to switch yahoo! to image search (As everyone has probably done), and i found this interesting website

http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/2003/q2/062303dcb.html

that prompted me to begin this thread. Can Rinoa be Ultimecia? Take a look at this superimposed picture of Ultimecia onto Rinoa.

http://img123.exs.cx/img123/9582/c3ut.jpg

They look practically the same! It seems as if sorceresses do not age, or do not age fast, as Edea Kramer and Cid Kramer's ages are widely different, suggesting that they met and then aquired a Sorceress's powers and then halted the aging process. If this is true, we can conclude that Rinoa might've been saddened so greatly by Sir Squall's death in the future, it drove her to insanity. Remember Edea's remark about Sorceresses and Knights when she was freed in Disk 2...sorry, I have seemed to forgotten. But i remember the gist of it: how sorceresses could turn bad if they did not have a knight by their side.

I haven't completed the game yet, but i read the website and Ultimecia remarks something along the lines of "Who are you?" when Squall confronts her. This could hint that Rinoa/Ultimecia does not remember him anymore or that she is in shock of seeing him.

However, this still doesn't not answer the question of why Ultimecia wants to attack Squall. I have a hypothesis, but no actual facts, so critics, shoot me.

Ok, in my experience, there are some people that are so depressed, that they actuall like the feeling of it, and will do anything to keep it that way. When Squall appeared, Ultimecia might've been so traumatized at the sight of her old lover that she doesn't want to see him.

And the reason for time compression? The search for Squall, of course! How she found out about Ellone's abilities? I cannot answer that without saying "what if". She probably thought it was a ludacris search, and knew that there was absolutely no hope, but when there's a small chance of finding your lover, anyone would take that up. Anyone...I think. So he appears, because he is part of Ultimecia's past. I know its far-fetched and riddled with enough holes to make Swiss Cheese jealous, but...crazy long forum threads gotta start somewhere right?

From more searches, I found out what Ultimecia's last words are. They aren't macho, like I WILL BE BACK! or AUUGH!!! NOOOOO! they really touched me...

"reflect on your...childhood...your sensation...your words...your emotions...time...it will not wait...no matter...how hard you hold on... it escapes you..."

...mostly because my early childhood was nothing but people beating me up and stepping all over me. Yes, I'm a loser. *ahem* back to Ultimecia, this is the biggest proof that she lost someone dear to her way back when when the flowers bloomed and the robins sang and when SeeDs knocked on her train door and helped her try to overthrow a tyrant in vain *ahem*. This shows that Ultimecia is more than just a cardboard cut-out boss-character that just pops outta nowhere like the Oilboyles or the Ignuions and actually had a past that we can talk about. Ok, i think I've talked enough. I will wait for your posts ^_^

-shinythin21, the shiny

[Zeromus_X]

Since sorceresses have normal human lifespans, Rinoa cannot live into the time of Ultimecia in the first place. Therefore, Rinoa is not Ultimecia.

[Xurts]

No, Squall = Ultimecia. Rinoa = Quistis - Ellone.

[shinythin21]

comon guys, im serious here! think about it...Edea keeps her age but Cid grows old n weary because she carries a Sorceress's powers! Maybe the age process is slowed down but not stopped. Square leaves clues for overanalyzing players like me and everyone on Eyes on FF. I know other people have noticed this...theres gotta be.

[Disco Potato]

There's at least one other huge thread dealing with this topic. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to look for :)

There's also some interesting info here:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_viii_time_ultimecia.txt

[Lynx]

i still think ellone = ultimecia would make wayyyy more sense then rinoa = ultimecia. i mean atleast ellone and ultimecia both have powers over time. but even that i dont believe is the answer behind ultimecia just a more plausible theory then R=U.

[shinythin21]

ahhhh the thread closed! or gamefaq's doesn't let me access the thread...>< grrrr...

waitaminute...how is ellone like ultimecia? She is hunting Ellone for her time skillz. Furthermore, I wanna see some proof besides her and Ultimecia having similar abilities. No offense Lynx, but this is perking my curiousity...^^

[Zeromus_X]

comon guys, im serious here! think about it...Edea keeps her age but Cid grows old n weary because she carries a Sorceress's powers! Maybe the age process is slowed down but not stopped. Square leaves clues for overanalyzing players like me and everyone on Eyes on FF. I know other people have noticed this...theres gotta be.

The Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania Omega guide states that Sorceresses have normal human lifespans.

[shinythin21]

Bleh...there goes everything. I guess Edea liked old guys o.O

[jammi567]

Ohhh, yay, it'f one of these fu*king things again.

Ultimecia is not Rinoa or vise versa, as the Ultimecia Omega guide practically spell it out that it isn't.

[shinythin21]

brah, o well...

thanx to Zeromus_X and jammi567 for clearing that up, i guess...

[Ryushikaze]

While I was busy being bored, i looked up pictures of my up-coming nemesis, Ultimecia (im still playing FF8 ^^) but i forgotten to switch yahoo! to image search (As everyone has probably done), and i found this interesting website

http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/2003/q2/062303dcb.html

that prompted me to begin this thread. Can Rinoa be Ultimecia?

No. Sorceresses have normal human lifespans.


Take a look at this superimposed picture of Ultimecia onto Rinoa.

http://img123.exs.cx/img123/9582/c3ut.jpg

They look practically the same!

Now do the same with the other gals. You'll get largely the same result.


It seems as if sorceresses do not age, or do not age fast, as Edea Kramer and Cid Kramer's ages are widely different, suggesting that they met and then aquired a Sorceress's powers and then halted the aging process.

Completely unsupported assumption. Edea looks about like how a woman of her age would. Cid also looks about his age, if overweight. Besides, Edea has had her powers since an incredibly early age.


If this is true, we can conclude that Rinoa might've been saddened so greatly by Sir Squall's death in the future, it drove her to insanity. Remember Edea's remark about Sorceresses and Knights when she was freed in Disk 2...sorry, I have seemed to forgotten. But i remember the gist of it: how sorceresses could turn bad if they did not have a knight by their side.

Or they might have all exploded into sunshine and farts, since that's about as likely as R=U.


I haven't completed the game yet, but i read the website and Ultimecia remarks something along the lines of "Who are you?" when Squall confronts her. This could hint that Rinoa/Ultimecia does not remember him anymore or that she is in shock of seeing him.

Or that Ultimecia has never met him before.


However, this still doesn't not answer the question of why Ultimecia wants to attack Squall. I have a hypothesis, but no actual facts, so critics, shoot me.

Gladly. (Grabs Anti Aircraft gun). Anyways, everything past this point is mindless trite that relies on your assumptions above being true. They aren't. Thus, it falls flat. R!=U, R=U has never been true, and will never be true.

That is all. Good day.

And do not attempt to press this further. I WILL be using the argumentative form of that AA gun if that happens.

[Peter_20]

Am I the only one who thinks the Rinoa = Ultimecia theory is extremely exciting?

I mean, it would be mega-cool if Rinoa were the future villain! :D

[TyphoonThaReapa]

A'yo, even if it doesn't make sense and I just made it up. I recently created my onw sequel to FF8 and in it Rinoa and Squall's daugter is Ultimacia. That's pretty tight huh?:cool:

[Darth Anarcus]

I've already posted my thoughts on this extensively in some other thread, so I'm not going to do so now. If I find that thread, I'll post the link.

Basically, I believe that Rinoa is Ultimecia, however I have my own theory and I use next to nothing of the currently circulating theories.

[NeoCracker]

Weren't these threads banned a while ago?

[Darth Anarcus]

Okay, here (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=98773) it is.

[MJN SEIFER]

I my self don't beleve this theroy, but then there are people who don't believe my theroy's and the ones I beleve. So...

[jammi567]

and here's (http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=91161&highlight=rinoa%3Dultimecia) another one

[Goldenboko]

No, just no. There is little to no evidence in the game to support this theory, it is more or less an attempt to give a back story to a backgroundless villain.

You can quickly and effectively kill any thought of an R=U Theory with a couple of facts.

A. Sorceresses have normal life spans and the game clearly demonstrates a large difference of time between Ultimecia's time and the time of Rinoa's (An example of the large time difference would be how Ultimecia's speech is differentiated from our heroes "Kurse all SeeDs". It is much how english used to be spoken like this "What does ye want with thee?"). Rinoa would've died before the time of Ultimecia, therefore she isn't Ultimecia.
B. Ultimecia tried to kill Rinoa a couple of times, if Ultimecia was Rinoa, she wouldn't have done that because killing oneself in the past would also kill one self’s present.
C. There are no facts in game hinting toward any arguments saying that Rinoa could've lived for along time, or that Ultimecia somehow forgot about her past and would be pure speculation with no in game truth behind it.

[McLovin']

See this is what happens when you meddle with time. Theories of all sorts emerge. >_<

Stupid Square.

[MJN SEIFER]

killing oneself in the past would also kill one self’s present.

Ah, But if you could kill your past self, would you die? Because If your past self died s/he couldn't grow into you and you won't be able go back in time to kill your past self, so you wouldn't die, and would therefore be able to kill your past self without dying even though your past self MUST die, to prevent you from living to the time you killed your past self, to keep you from living to that time even though you should be dead any way, but also shouldn't be...:confused:


I've got a smegging headache now!:mad:

[bwave]

I do not believe that she is ultimecia, but I do believe that sephie is bahamut.

[Goldenboko]

killing oneself in the past would also kill one self’s present.

Ah, But if you could kill your past self, would you die? Because If your past self died s/he couldn't grow into you and you won't be able go back in time to kill your past self, so you wouldn't die, and would therefore be able to kill your past self without dying even though your past self MUST die, to prevent you from living to the time you killed your past self, to keep you from living to that time even though you should be dead any way, but also shouldn't be...:confused:


I've got a smegging headache now!:mad:

Well, testing this is literally impossible because time is relitive but one could assume that because death cannot be undone, killing your past would make your future cease to exist.

[Lynx]

ahhhh the thread closed! or gamefaq's doesn't let me access the thread...>< grrrr...

waitaminute...how is ellone like ultimecia? She is hunting Ellone for her time skillz. Furthermore, I wanna see some proof besides her and Ultimecia having similar abilities. No offense Lynx, but this is perking my curiousity...^^

well they both have power over itme which could explain how ultimecia would be able to live so long. ellone developing her powers more and more and eventually being able to controll time around herself (keeping her from ageing). ultimecia was looking for ellone. i forget why its been sooo long since i played the game. but i think ultimecia wants to stop ellone from useing her powers or have control over them. this makes sense because ultimecia would know ellone had these kinda powers if they were the same person. i mean come on how else would ultimecia know about ellones powers? also ultimecia could be looking for ellone to help develop her powers earlier on in life? all possibilties.

in no way do i belive that square thought that deeply in makeing this game therefor i dont belive E=U or R=U. i just think the E=U is supported wayyy better then R=U. makes me wonder who first thought of R=U and how they overlooked ellone.


I do not believe that she is ultimecia, but I do believe that sephie is bahamut.

i belive that over Rinoa = Ultimecia.

Edit: besides R=U makes less sense because ultimecia wouldnt ahve made edea try to kill rinoa bevcause she'd be killing herself???? now theres something to think about.

[shinythin21]

okay okay i'm convinced. The guns are in the cabinet to the left of you guys *sob*. I guess i overlooked quite a few things, thanx 2 everyone for clearing that mess up ^_^.

-shinythin21

[Zeromus_X]

See you guys next month. :)