Lancers and the CT delima for Jump

[the_elf]

I love Lancers. My first few times playing through FFT, I pretty much found them, and stuck with them. The one thing that I've never completely figured out is how to perfect the timing using their Jump skill.

With spell casters, it's easy. You look at the target's "go number," and then make sure your spell goes before the target does. In some cases, you can gamble and match the target's "go number," and your spell will manage to fire off first. You can also press one of the arrow buttons on your spell sheet to see the map of what charges will be done when.

But, how long does a Jump have to charge?

I've tested and tested, and seen various results. If you give your Jump a wide CT berth on your intended "Jumpie," you'll have success most of the time. However, on battles such as the notorious 1-on-1 with Wiegraff, the "go numbers" are essentially 1 and 2. There's a far bit of CT count between 1 and 2, but it makes it difficult to judge whether or not a Jump will hit Wiegraff. Nontheless, you CAN hit Wiegraff on a jump occasionally. I'm just not sure how to forcast when I have enough time to charge the Jump, and when I don't.

What would be great is if you could use the lateral arrows to see when your Jump will happen, but it seems that you can only do that when you're picking a spell.

So, veteran Lancers (or BG :) ), what's your rule of thumb on "to Jump, or not to Jump?"

[BG-57]

The consensus seems to be if the unit's CT is 50 or less (and not in Haste), Jump will connect almost every time.

[the_elf]

Almost every time? Then, I guess it's not quite science, and more of a "feel." Will less than 50 hit some of the time? Perhaps the target's speed factors into that somehow.

[BG-57]

Yeah, the faster a unit, the faster the CT gauge fills. So Lancers don't work very well against, say, Ninjas.

Each unit gets a turn when it's CT count fills to 100. Once it's turn is finished, it reverts to 0.

[feioncastor]

I usually don't chance it if the CT is over 35, just to be safe. Often, I've jumped on 40-50 CT, and the target will frequently move out of the way. Time Mages can cast use spells to make this happen, or other circumstances.

I honestly don't like "Jump" a whole lot, for this reason. If I have my Monk totally decked out, and with "Concentration" support ability, I can do max damage with 100% success rate. The only drawback is a mastered Lancer's range with "Jump" is quite ridiculous. As well, if you get the Javelin II or even the Holy Lance, you're going to be doing some serious damage with a Lancer.

Another issue I have with the Lancer is Heavy Armor. I don't like Armor, like, Plate Mail, because they don't have the stat benefits, most of the time. Like, the Thief Hat adds 2 to speed and prevents Don't Move and Don't Act. Off hand, I can't think of a helmet that adds or prevents anything... I think the Grand Helmet prevents "Darkness", but that's all that comes to mind. And of course, the Reflect Mail, which I actually don't like. I'd rather have a Ninja with a Black Costume and a Thief Hat, or a Female magic user with a Rubber Costume and Setiemson.

[VeloZer0]

Since I'm a nerd and usualy play games with a calculator beside me, jump is a piece of cake.

[1 - (Enemy Speed)/(2 * Player Speed)] * 100 is the max CT they can have.

[the_elf]

Since I'm a nerd and usualy play games with a calculator beside me, jump is a piece of cake.

[1 - (Enemy Speed)/(2 * Player Speed)] * 100 is the max CT they can have.

That's beautiful, and it makes a lot of sense, too. If you and your enemy both have the same speed, it works out that you have to start your jump before that hit CT50.

So, if you both have a speed of 6:

[1 - (6) / (2 * 6)] * 100
[1 - 0.5] * 100 = 50

If your enemy is faster than you, they're going to reach their CT while you're still charging since they move through their turns faster.

Your enemy has a speed of 6, you have a speed of 4:

[1 - (6) / (2 * 4)] * 100
[1 - 0.75] * 100 = 25

So there, you would have to jump before your opponent gets to CT 25 in order to hit. Thanks for the math. Very helpful! :)

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

this Also Shows just How Right feioncastor was in saying he prefers Lighter Armour for the Stats.

As your Math shows you, just a Boost of 2 Speed makes your Lancer far too slow to be the Devistating Destroy All Class that it could be.

Now if you sacrifice some of that Heavy Armour for Some Speed Gear, then you could Possibly Jump on Nearly Every Enemy and see nothign but Success.

[the_elf]

There's always the Ninja-Lancer combo. Ninja with Jump skill, perhaps? :D

[conan]

Anybody got the formula for how much actual DAMAGE jumping does?

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

I don't have a formula but im pritty darn sure that having Jump as a support is much weaker than when your a Lancer.

[BG-57]

For spears: 1.5 (P.A. * W.P.)

For other weapons: (P.A. * W.P.)

P.A. = Physical Attack
W.P. = Weapon Power

So spears add a big advantage to Jump.

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

yah see i didnt know the formula but i know that jumpin with like Knights swords and other swords pritty much sucks.

To this day my Favorite Combo is still

Knight
Punch Art or Item
Two Swords
Blade Grasp
Teleport

move almost anywhere and hit twice with some of the most powerful weapons in the game.

[the_elf]

yah see i didnt know the formula but i know that jumpin with like Knights swords and other swords pritty much sucks.

To this day my Favorite Combo is still

Knight
Punch Art or Item
Two Swords
Blade Grasp
Teleport

move almost anywhere and hit twice with some of the most powerful weapons in the game.

Just as long as you don't try and teleport more than 4-5 squares away. :( Stupid teleport failures. :(

[BG-57]

I'm sure if you used Gameshark you could give your units Teleport 2 (which Elmdor has) which never fails.

I'd still put my money on Move +2/3, with Move-Find or Ignore Height for special cases.

[VeloZer0]

Teleport > Ignore Hight.

Teleport has all the advantages of Ignore Hight, with the option of gambling on top of that. And it illuminates the entire deep dungeon, which is kind of nice on your first few trips to a level.

(For anyone who doesn't know, with teleport you have 100% chance of success within your regular move range, and -10% success for any panel you move further. ie if you have move of 4 and try to go 6 panels away you have a 80% chance of success.)

[BG-57]

Except I don't like gambling. Which is why I don't use maces, purses, Teleport, Truth or Untruth. But to each their own.

[the_elf]

Teleport > Ignore Hight.

Teleport has all the advantages of Ignore Hight, with the option of gambling on top of that. And it illuminates the entire deep dungeon, which is kind of nice on your first few trips to a level.

(For anyone who doesn't know, with teleport you have 100% chance of success within your regular move range, and -10% success for any panel you move further. ie if you have move of 4 and try to go 6 panels away you have a 80% chance of success.)

Cool! That's good to know. Though, I think that most units movement starts off only as 3 or 4. I guess you could augment that with Teleport + Germanias Boots.

Yeah, I wish I had Teleport2. :( No Gameshark.

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

most units can naturaly move 4-5 without any + gear or abilitys

when i use teleport i find i can move 6-8 panels with little to no failure, also ignore hight and any obsticals or enemies in the way.

you can be compleatly surrounded and still teleport your full distance, which is not possible with any other Move+ item or Ability.

Using Teleport is all about how Greedy you are. if your very greedy you will fail and teleport is not for you. if you are willing to move your normal range +1-4 you will end up having the same movment as if you had Move+3 and Ignore hieght at the same time and you still get to use your accesory spot for somthing besides a move+ item.

In certain Battles simply having Teleport instead of any other movement is almost as good as cheating, because you can move to places you shouldnt be able or that other units cannot.

For example, in the FInal Battle Agains Gafgarion Ramza is traped with Gaf alone on one side of the gate and all your other characters are on the other side.

With Teleport you can freely pass through the gate without opening it and the enemy untils are then only able to reach you with thier summons.

In my opinion Teleport is the single greatest Movement ability in the game, but just like many of the jobs/abilitys you have to learn to use it properly.