Axel = Reno?

[Aerisfanatic]

Its pretty obviose that axel is a kingdom hearts adaption of reno... the red hair, pailish skin, red markings below eyes, and the same voice actor from AC and KH2, i was wondering why KH didnt make light of this? and does this mean that our beloved reno hes been turned into a heartless? and how is rude taking this? thoughts....

[Tavrobel]

i was wondering why KH didnt make light of this?

Because Reno never appears in KHI or KHII. Therefore, his persona does not yet exist. Also, if we follow the rules of OXIII naming, Axel and Reno are not anagrams with an X added. There's no other name that Reno went by in the original FFVII, so there's no reason to call him anything else.

"Ohh, but Squall changes his name!"

If you thought that, then you truly are hopeless, and should stop reading, lest your mind be overtaken by enlightenment and truth of situation. [!]By the way, don't turn to Christmas, even if she agrees with you, because Christmas has absolutely no validity or grounds of talking about the philosophical tenets of Kingdom Hearts, no matter how retarded and desperate she may be.[/!]

Squall can be explained because it's a throwback to Leon of FFIIj, and also is a symbol of his abandoning his old name for not being able (at the time) of stopping the Heartless from overtaking Hollow Bastion, forcing him and Cid to flee to Traverse Town. He says so when you visit Traverse Town.

Also, this can easily be attributed to Nomura's uncreativity when it comes to character design.

Before you go any further, no, Axel is not Riku's Nobody, Riku and Sora are not gay for each other, and Sora and Riku both have parents. Disney doesn't do homo.

[Griff]

I don't think that Axel is Reno's nobody for the same basic reasons as Tavrobel. As for the same voice actor theory, voice actors play many different parts. If they didn't, Wakka would be a foul-mouthed, alcoholic robot.

[Tavrobel]

I would have preferred Bender's voicing on Wakka.

[LunarWeaver]

Kiss my shiny, Besaidian ass. :holmes:

We can all dream our dreams of Axel and Roxas being connected. Just as we all dream Xenogears has three prequels or that it really is butter. But the cold truth is that it's all lies. It's all lies ;_;


Disney doesn't do homo.

I didn't see Scar hanging out with any lionesses, that's all I'm sayin' here :bigsmile:

[Tavrobel]

I didn't see Scar hanging out with any lionesses, that's all I'm sayin' here :bigsmile:

In Lion King 2, he has a son. In fact, the son is raised to kill Simba.

Of course, there's no sex in Disney, either. Children plop out of thin air.

[LunarWeaver]

You jest?! Scar had a child? Scar has...well, scarred me :(

[Ashley Schovitz]

Maybe Axel is Riku's nobody since Riku was once a heartless since Ansem took over his body and he had the heartless symbol on him and even then still in kH II he was in Heartless Xenahort's body, so maybe.

[Fonzie]

Maybe Axel is Riku's nobody since Riku was once a heartless since Ansem took over his body and he had the heartless symbol on him and even then still in kH II he was in Heartless Xenahort's body, so maybe.

Whatever made you think this idea?

[PuPu]

Maybe Axel is Riku's nobody since Riku was once a heartless since Ansem took over his body and he had the heartless symbol on him and even then still in kH II he was in Heartless Xenahort's body, so maybe.

Doubtful, because if you mix up the letters and Riku and add an X, it's impossible to spell "Axel"


Whatever made you think this idea?

Most likely from the fact that Roxas and Axel are friends like Sora and Riku.

[Tavrobel]

Maybe Axel is Riku's nobody since Riku was once a heartless since Ansem took over his body and he had the heartless symbol on him and even then still in kH II he was in Heartless Xenahort's body, so maybe.

Riku never became a Heartless. You can clearly see him fight against Ansem multiple times until tthe end, when he is actually free. In KHII, he takes on the guise of Ansem in order to freely use his powers, and to help Sora.

[Ashley Schovitz]

Maybe Axel is Riku's nobody since Riku was once a heartless since Ansem took over his body and he had the heartless symbol on him and even then still in kH II he was in Heartless Xenahort's body, so maybe.

Riku never became a Heartless. You can clearly see him fight against Ansem multiple times until tthe end, when he is actually free. In KHII, he takes on the guise of Ansem in order to freely use his powers, and to help Sora.

You're saying he was just wearing a costume then and wasn't actuallly him?

[Tavrobel]

You're saying he was just wearing a costume then and wasn't actuallly him?

No, it was him, but the form of Ansem represents the full potential of his dark powers. It's like a stain you just can't quite get off, and when Riku unleases his ability against Roxas, he must remain in that form. It more represents Riku's willingness to throw away everything in order to help Sora.

Not that this doesn't have repercussions.

[Psychotic]

I can delete these posts faster than you lot write them. But really, the merits of Christmas's jokes or whether or not Tavrobel is a jerk has nothing to do with an Axel = Reno? thread so find some other place to have this debate.

Warnings are gonna come next, fyi.

Back to the topic please. Thank you!

[Aerisfanatic]

I don't think that Axel is Reno's nobody for the same basic reasons as Tavrobel. As for the same voice actor theory, voice actors play many different parts. If they didn't, Wakka would be a foul-mouthed, alcoholic robot.
to have the same voice kinda tips it off and everything else

[Tavrobel]

Not really. I have yet to find any similarities between Saïx and Saito, besides their love for owning stuff.

[bipper]

I just kinda started playing this game and I think that the three in twilight town, Pence, and company - remind me of Biggs, wedge, and Jesse of FFVII fame. Must be the same.

I think he is just a no body. and he will never be a somebody, never was a somebody.

[Hazzard]

I just kinda started playing this game and I think that the three in twilight town, Pence, and company - remind me of Biggs, wedge, and Jesse of FFVII fame. Must be the same.

I think he is just a no body. and he will never be a somebody, never was a somebody.

Obviously Axel had a somebody, because they all have to if their Nobodies. Hayner and the gang are just teenagers in Twilight Town, and nothing like Biggs and Wedge in VII. Just because one of them is fat, doesn't mean he's like the other. Completely different characters.

[StarlightAngel]

"Reno" cannot be used to spell out "Axel" even if an x was added. Also, going by your whole Voice Acter theory, Etna from Disgaea must totally be related in some way to Chii from Chobits because *gasp* OMG THEY ARE BOTH VOICED BY MICHELLE RUFF!!!1!

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Voice actors often do multiple parts in different games/shows for the same company, or even different ones.

Oh, and before this becomes a RikuxSora yaoifest: Riku and Sora are best friends. End of story. Because, believe it or not, you can have friends without being romantically interested in them.

[Clawsze]

Oh, and before this becomes a RikuxSora yaoifest: Riku and Sora are best friends. End of story. Because, believe it or not, you can have friends without being romantically interested in them.

Quoted for truth.

[G3ORGE]

Hmm... You can Spell Alex with Axel any alexes in SE games?

[Lawr]

"Reno" cannot be used to spell out "Axel" even if an x was added. Also, going by your whole Voice Acter theory, Etna from Disgaea must totally be related in some way to Chii from Chobits because *gasp* OMG THEY ARE BOTH VOICED BY MICHELLE RUFF!!!1!

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Voice actors often do multiple parts in different games/shows for the same company, or even different ones.

Oh, and before this becomes a RikuxSora yaoifest: Riku and Sora are best friends. End of story. Because, believe it or not, you can have friends without being romantically interested in them.

There might have been thoughts (By whoever made this thread.) on the relation because there actually might be some connection because Reno has a chance of appearing in KH. And if out of no-where Axel is Reno's Nobody, what then? All Hell breaks loose?

[Markus. D]

I think they are two totally differant people.

The only relation. Big red hair~

[Clawsze]

I think they are two totally differant people.

The only relation. Big red hair~

and face marks....
and cocky attitude....
I just think that he was BASED on Reno but not meant to be Reno's nobody.

[Dynast-Kid]

I didn't see Scar hanging out with any lionesses, that's all I'm sayin' here :bigsmile:

In Lion King 2, he has a son. In fact, the son is raised to kill Simba.

Of course, there's no sex in Disney, either. Children plop out of thin air.

I just had to comment...

Kovu isn't actually Scar's son. Kovu was brought up by Scar to take his place as ruler of the Outlands and to, as already mentioned, kill Simba. It's confirmed in the movie. Scar was originally going to be Kovu's father...But if Kovu were to end up with Kiara would involve incest, something Disney was trying to avoid.

As to whether Scar is gay or not, I think it's up to viewer discretion. I personally think his character is that much more interesting though if you do view him as a homosexual. It makes him much more...approachable. Though, in early storyboards there was to be a scene where Scar was to make his move on Nala. Disney wanted to insure Scar's heterosexuality (Due to Jafar from Aladdin), but they cut it from the final movie cuz they thought it was too much for the kiddies. But it's still present in the Broadway adaptation.

But if you really want to know, ask Osamu Tezuka if Claw from Kimba the White Lion was gay.

As for the thread:

Axel = Axel

Reno = Reno

[Slothy]

I don't think that Axel is Reno's nobody for the same basic reasons as Tavrobel. As for the same voice actor theory, voice actors play many different parts. If they didn't, Wakka would be a foul-mouthed, alcoholic robot.
to have the same voice kinda tips it off and everything else

By that logic, Jack Sparrow is really Tidus. It's a coincidence. Good voice actors tend to get a lot of work, and Square likely just used a bunch of them on multiple projects because, well, why not? If you've already hired them for onw job and you're pleased with their performance, why not hire them for more voice work.

[Clawsze]

Indeed and amen.

[Arc_Master_14]

Hmm... You can Spell Alex with Axel any alexes in SE games?
You need to take the x out first and im pretty sure Reno aint spelt ale or lae or even eal

[G3ORGE]

Hmm... You can Spell Alex with Axel any alexes in SE games?
You need to take the x out first and im pretty sure Reno aint spelt ale or lae or even eal

:eek: :eek: :eek: YOU FOUND IT OUT! Axel is BEERS NOBODY!!!!!!

[Tavrobel]

Kovu isn't actually Scar's son.

Axel = Axel

He's adopted, close enough.

Axel can't equal Axel because Nobodies don't exist. Therefore, Axel may only be equal to "Axel == __." And by this inconvertable truth that I have proven, that the Organization is actually the Party. They will turn you into shells of your former selves, and fill you with them. Thought Police!

But if you really want to know who is the true culprit of OXIII identity games, that would be Saïx. If you remove the X, he becomes IAS, which is an acronym for "Increased Attack Speed." Therefore, Saïx's original identity was a concept of computer gaming in order to describe the possible amount of damage done by a normal attack when it is altered positively by a weapon, item, or other equipment! It's so simple, no?

[Hazzard]

Kovu isn't actually Scar's son.

Axel = Axel

He's adopted, close enough.

Axel can't equal Axel because Nobodies don't exist. Therefore, Axel may only be equal to "Axel == __." And by this inconvertable truth that I have proven, that the Organization is actually the Party. They will turn you into shells of your former selves, and fill you with them. Thought Police!

But if you really want to know who is the true culprit of OXIII identity games, that would be Saïx. If you remove the X, he becomes IAS, which is an acronym for "Increased Attack Speed." Therefore, Saïx's original identity was a concept of computer gaming in order to describe the possible amount of damage done by a normal attack when it is altered positively by a weapon, item, or other equipment! It's so simple, no?

How the hell did you get so smart...? :confused:

[Tavrobel]

It's called "school." Try listening to a teacher.

[Clawsze]

It's called "school." Try listening to a teacher.

Hehehe, what if you get about 14 of 25 lessons teached by subs.

[Griff]

It's called "school." Try listening to a teacher.

Your school teaches you the concepts behind Organization XIII? I want to go to your school!

[Tavrobel]

No, that would make me the school's professor.

[Hazzard]

It's called "school." Try listening to a teacher.

Lol, you really do hate me. :cry:

Seriously, I respect kids who know their literature.

[G3ORGE]

LIEK M3333?!?!?!!??!

[Sword]

I have my own theory about the relationship between Axel and Reno or even if there is a relationship at all. Taking the latter point into account; Tetsuya Nomura may have just designed Axel in reminiscence of Reno because he liked Reno in particular out of his FF creations, or maybe Square wanted to add a "Turks" feel to Organization XIII. It's hard to reach a conclusion if we don't know the designer's intentions.

Since "Axel" is an anagram of the original's name with an X, I have surmised that the original person is not Reno. However as stated in the ansem reports: the nobodies have only the slightest variations in their appearance from the originals (this also seems to be true for their heartless forms when comparing Xehanort's heartless (Ansem from the first Kingdom Hearts) with Xehanort and Xemnas). I have therefore concluded that Reno is the heartless that was created from the original body that also belongs to the nobody named Axel. Though one does have to keep in mind the possibility that Axel created an entirely different name for his nobody self (again just like Xehanort and Xemnas), however there is no evidence to support either of these theories.

If I was to incorporate the "Reno is a heartless" theory into the story, it would be this: The latest threat to the Kingdom Hearts universe is the Shin-Ra company. They are an organization of Heartless who want to use the energy of the Hearts of the worlds for whatever reason (It was money in FF7 but that sort of thing seems unimortant in KH), maybe to create an army of powerful heartless SOLDIERs. Whatever it is we learned in KH1 that the heartless are drawn to hearts and the largest heart is the heart of a world. Anyway this is somewhat the same idea as in FF7 when the Shin-Ra used the life energy of the planet to provide energy for the human lifestyle, which would eventually kill the planet. This plot could also be used in KH, replacing the lifestream with the heart of a world. When the Shin-Ra suck up all that energy, the world will disappear. The point I'm trying to make here is that a story where Reno IS a heartless could fit very neatly into Kingdom Hearts.

I'm wondering if Square are already planning this sort of storyline. Please discuss my theory...

[Dynast-Kid]

I have my own theory about the relationship between Axel and Reno or even if there is a relationship at all. Taking the latter point into account; Tetsuya Nomura may have just designed Axel in reminiscence of Reno because he liked Reno in particular out of his FF creations, or maybe Square wanted to add a "Turks" feel to Organization XIII. It's hard to reach a conclusion if we don't know the designer's intentions.

Since "Axel" is an anagram of the original's name with an X, I have surmised that the original person is not Reno. However as stated in the ansem reports: the nobodies have only the slightest variations in their appearance from the originals (this also seems to be true for their heartless forms when comparing Xehanort's heartless (Ansem from the first Kingdom Hearts) with Xehanort and Xemnas). I have therefore concluded that Reno is the heartless that was created from the original body that also belongs to the nobody named Axel. Though one does have to keep in mind the possibility that Axel created an entirely different name for his nobody self (again just like Xehanort and Xemnas), however there is no evidence to support either of these theories.

If I was to incorporate the "Reno is a heartless" theory into the story, it would be this: The latest threat to the Kingdom Hearts universe is the Shin-Ra company. They are an organization of Heartless who want to use the energy of the Hearts of the worlds for whatever reason (It was money in FF7 but that sort of thing seems unimortant in KH), maybe to create an army of powerful heartless SOLDIERs. Whatever it is we learned in KH1 that the heartless are drawn to hearts and the largest heart is the heart of a world. Anyway this is somewhat the same idea as in FF7 when the Shin-Ra used the life energy of the planet to provide energy for the human lifestyle, which would eventually kill the planet. This plot could also be used in KH, replacing the lifestream with the heart of a world. When the Shin-Ra suck up all that energy, the world will disappear. The point I'm trying to make here is that a story where Reno IS a heartless could fit very neatly into Kingdom Hearts.

I'm wondering if Square are already planning this sort of storyline. Please discuss my theory...


Nice theory, but too bad all of the Organization members are dead and their origins don't really matter.

[bipper]

I found sword's theory somewhat surmountable. I just don't think that it was ever inteded for any base character in Disney or Squeenix to start off as a heartless or Nobody. These are all manifestations unique to kingdom hearts.

[Ouch!]

I have therefore concluded that Reno is the heartless that was created from the original body that also belongs to the nobody named Axel.
Impossible. Sora and Xehanort are the only two people who have ever managed to remain in control after transforming into a heartless instead of becoming a mindless creature craving hearts. This is confirmed in the game.


Though one does have to keep in mind the possibility that Axel created an entirely different name for his nobody self (again just like Xehanort and Xemnas), however there is no evidence to support either of these theories.
Xehanort's name change to Xemnas was a result of changing his name before he cast aside his body and created a heartless and nobody. Xehanort assumed the name Ansem and began impersonating his master. This is made very clear and is very obvious. Xemnas is merely an anagram of Ansem plus an x.

I'm not even going to touch the rest of your "theory."

Edit: Just in case someone decides to nitpick, I'm going to clarify the first point. Sora and Xehanort are the only known examples of the whole heartless-with-a-conscious-mind thing, however you want to describe it. While it is possible that others have done the same thing, I find it highly improbable (so much so that I'm still willing to use the word impossible) that Axel's heartless would be a similar example. As nobodies remember their lives before their seperation from their heart, it's very likely that they all know a great deal about themselves. This would mean that the organization probably knows a lot about the circumstances under which each member was seperated from his or her heart. If Reno was Axel's heartless, the Organization would not have so carelessly overlooked a third example (as they were the ones who confirmed that only Sora and Xehanort have ever achieved it).

[Sword]

Impossible. Sora and Xehanort are the only two people who have ever managed to remain in control after transforming into a heartless instead of becoming a mindless creature craving hearts. This is confirmed in the game.
It's not impossible. They are the only KNOWN examples.


Xehanort's name change to Xemnas was a result of changing his name before he cast aside his body and created a heartless and nobody. Xehanort assumed the name Ansem and began impersonating his master. This is made very clear and is very obvious. Xemnas is merely an anagram of Ansem plus an x.
I know about the anagram thing. What does that have to do with it? It's still a different name. What I was saying is that Axel may not be an anagram with and X of his original name. He IS an oddball within the group afterall.

Anyway I admitted myself that there is nothing to support the theory. That's why it is called a THEORY :twak:

You can't blame me for having a go.

[Tavrobel]

Impossible. Sora and Xehanort are the only two people who have ever managed to remain in control after transforming into a heartless instead of becoming a mindless creature craving hearts. This is confirmed in the game.
It's not impossible. They are the only KNOWN examples.

If they are the only known examples, then by default, they are the ONLY examples. You can't just go around in stick in random settings into a plot that is not yours, such as "ohh, I shall go and Deus Ex Machina the ending to KHII. The explanation is that Riku and Sora blah blah blah, all is saved. BUT WAIT! THERE'S A FOURTEENTH MEMBER OF OXIII!? LOLOLOLOLOL WE ARE SCREWED!" It's not yours to deal with as you wish, and you simply have to wait until more is revealed to you.

I very much doubt that KHIII (or the next section in the KH franchise) will focus on the Nobodies.

As to your second point, wtf are you on about? Axel's inability to be grouped into the OXIII falls only on the Psychological aspect of his nature-less-ness. He still performs (some) functions of being part of the OXIII (double-Agenting to fight Marluxia, being sent to kill/capture Roxas, controlling Assassin Nobodies), and taking a new name does not seems as though it would be a problem for him.

I'd break your theory apart line by line, but I'll spare you the theatrics.

[Sword]

Impossible. Sora and Xehanort are the only two people who have ever managed to remain in control after transforming into a heartless instead of becoming a mindless creature craving hearts. This is confirmed in the game.
It's not impossible. They are the only KNOWN examples.

If they are the only known examples, then by default, they are the ONLY examples. You can't just go around in stick in random settings into a plot that is not yours, such as "ohh, I shall go and Deus Ex Machina the ending to KHII. The explanation is that Riku and Sora blah blah blah, all is saved. BUT WAIT! THERE'S A FOURTEENTH MEMBER OF OXIII!? LOLOLOLOLOL WE ARE SCREWED!" It's not yours to deal with as you wish, and you simply have to wait until more is revealed to you.

I very much doubt that KHIII (or the next section in the KH franchise) will focus on the Nobodies.

As to your second point, wtf are you on about? Axel's inability to be grouped into the OXIII falls only on the Psychological aspect of his nature-less-ness. He still performs (some) functions of being part of the OXIII (double-Agenting to fight Marluxia, being sent to kill/capture Roxas, controlling Assassin Nobodies), and taking a new name does not seems as though it would be a problem for him.

I'd break your theory apart line by line, but I'll spare you the theatrics.

However I can counter each and every one of your points by saying the same words over again: Its possible. Jeez it was only a thought so decided to present it.


If they are the only known examples, then by default, they are the ONLY examples. You can't just go around in stick in random settings into a plot that is not yours.
Now what the hell is this? What about what Square done with Ansem huh? He was the bad guy in the first game, but in the second game we are suddenly told that he isnt really Ansem and just stole his name. It's not like random new things aren't suddenly added anyway. Look I'm just trying to make a link while keeping in mind the facts we already have about the names of the organization members. To me, my theory is the most plausable. I think you should read my original post and take into account EVERY word I say.


Psychological aspect of his nature-less-ness
What are you talking about here? I don't know what this has to do with anything I said.

[Tavrobel]

However I can counter each and every one of your points by saying the same words over again: Its possible. Jeez it was only a thought so decided to present it.

Hasty Generalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies). Anyways, it is possible, but it doesn't mean anything, and is not canon. As it is not your game, you have no say as to whether or not it will go one way or another.


Now what the hell is this? What about what Square done with Ansem huh? He was the bad guy in the first game, but in the second game we are suddenly told that he isnt really Ansem and just stole his name. It's not like random new things aren't suddenly added anyway.

KHII didn't exist when KHI was finished. Therefore, the plot of the KH series does not continue until the game is finished, and released. There are no developments.


What are you talking about here? I don't know what this has to do with anything I said.



Psychology (from Greek: ψυχή, psukhē, "spirit, soul"; and λόγος, logos, "knowledge") is an academic / applied discipline involving the scientific study of mental processes and behavior of humans and animals. Psychologists study such phenomena as perception, cognition, emotion, personality, behavior, and interpersonal relationships. Psychology also refers to the application of such knowledge to various spheres of human activity, including problems of individuals' daily lives and the treatment of mental health problems.

Now that you are familiar with the term, Axel's differences from the other Organization XIII members falls solely on his psychology. I had to add in the nature-less-ness part, simply because as a Nobody, he does not have a nature or identity. It's called the ability to discern and apply theorem. Perhaps you should look it up, and that is why Axel cannot be an exception to the rule of "OMG MAI HAERTLES CAN THINK!"

[Sword]

I know what it means. I still don't get how it applies to anything I said.

[Mnyama of the Earth]

Ok, this question, as to whether Reno is Axel's somebody is INCORRECT . . . okay? Thank-you. Axel is like Reno because the makers of KH wanted a familiar character, but with a different role and personality. Axel's somebody is Lea (note: add X to that and mix the letters up you get Axel) who has passed away. Riku has nothing to do with Axel and Axel and Roxas are not gay! That is not the way of Disney. Now, I hope thats all cleared up now. Thanks.

[blackmage_nuke]

Disney doesn't do homo.
How do you explain Gaston's short assistant guy from Beuty and the Beast? He couldnt be any less subtle

[Rantz]

This thread is two years old, Mnyama of the Earth. You can start a new thread if you have things to clear up. *closes*