Did Squaresoft ever say anything about the R=U theory?

[Crizpy]

Having a discussion on a different forum, and some dude is saying that Squaresoft officialy said that this theory is wrong.

Anyone got a link or whatever?
Cheers :)

[SeeDRankLou]

I'm not sure, but the Ultimania guide in Japan, which I'm fairly certain is suppose to be filled with official information, said that sorceresses have a set life span. Since Ultimecia exists way in the future, Rinoa would have died of old age by then, thus R cannot = U.

[Tallulah]

But aren't sorceresses ageless? Such as Edea. She must be round about the same age as Cid (mid-40s) but still looks like a twenty-year-old. And maybe their lifespans are longer than the average human being.

Or am I thinking of wizards vs. Muggles again. DAMMIT!]

In any case, I despise the R=U theory. What is much more likely is that Rinoa is a descendant of Ultimecia, which is how she came to possess Griever, the ring Rinoa procured from Squall, and it was just handed down from generation to generation.

That just came of the top of my head. Man, I'm on form tonight! :D

[ragnosica]

how do u ppl see these things?! i can't remember for the life of me:cry:

[Xurts]

Having a discussion on a different forum, and some dude is saying that Squaresoft officialy said that this theory is wrong.

Anyone got a link or whatever?
Cheers :)
It doesn't take a statement from Square to determine that the theory is wrong. It's pretty obvious already.

[Crizpy]

I think it makes perfect sense.
Theres a lot of things in the game that is hinting towards the theory beeing true.

Besides, we're never given a reason to why it is that Ulti wanna compress time.
Just for the hell of it? Seems pretty weak.

[jammi567]

Unfortunatly, the offical Ultimecia guide (which comes from Sqare themselves) says that Sorceresses live normal lives, and Laguna says that Ultimecia live in a future in which none of the characters could possibly live in, and on top of that, the SeeD's have been fighting for "generations".

[PuPu]

I think it makes perfect sense. Theres a lot of things in the game that is hinting towards the theory beeing true.
You also have to realize that there is also evidence in the game that disproves it, such the fact that Rinoa didn't get sorceress powers, like Angel Wing, until Ultimecia took over Rinoa's body.


Besides, we're never given a reason to why it is that Ulti wanna compress time.
Just for the hell of it? Seems pretty weak.
What do you mean that we aren't given a reason? Have you been paying attention at all?
In the game, it was said that she wanted to kill all SeeD, because SeeD was opposed to her. But in her time, all the SeeD have been killed, and she already had control of the world.

So she really didn't have much of a reason to try to compress time. She wanted to make it so that SeeD never existed apparently, which eventually led to her downfall, because the SeeD in the present discovered what she was planning, and Ellone sent Squall and co. to the future, and Ultimecia was defeated.

But you're right, she's such a horrible villain.

[Crizpy]

Alright, thanks for clearing this up:)

Btw, when fighting ulti in the end, she says all the crap about reflecting on your childhood and whatever..then she says "And.."

And what? I wasnt attacking her for like 30 minutes, wanted to find out what she was gonna say, then got tired of it.
Is she saying something else? My guess is no.

[Reddragon]

I dont remember what is the purpose on time compression. Could someone tell me plz?

And what will happen to the world when Ulti died?
I wonder if there were any survivors in Ulti period.
The ending is only focusing on the characters going back to their time period.

Con't:
>>And what will happen to the world when Ulti died?
I mean, the sorceress must pass her power to someone. And after Ulti will be Edea. And so does that mean the rest of the ulti period will be no sorceress receiving the power?

[Crizpy]

Im pretty confused myself.
Edea tells us that she got her powers from a dying sorceress when she was young.
And thats exactly what happens in the end. Ultimecia dies, and she gives her powers to Edea.
If it wasnt for Squall and the others, that would've happened.

You can argue that the Garden and SeeD's never would've existed if it wasnt for Squall telling Edea in the end of the game...so it kinda loops or whatever..

I dont know, its just damn confusing:D

[SeeDRankLou]

Edea received the power of a dying sorceress when she was very young. She was already a sorceress when she received Ultimecia's power.

You could say that the beginning and ending of this story happen at the same moment, when Ultimecia gives Edea her powers. Because that moment happens, the story starts and the story ends, so everything in the middle has already happened. If one of the things in the middle were to not happen, it wouldn't end correctly, meaning that it wouldn't start in the first place.

And there is a reason for time compression if you connect the dots. Compressing time would bring all time to a single point, which would bring all things to a single point, including all sorceresses. When the Great Hyne was defeated or left the world or whatever happened to him, he left a piece of himself in every sorceress. So, if all sorceresses were in the same place at the same time, one could kill them all, absorb all of their powers, and piece together the power of the Great Hyne once again.

[ragnosica]

time compression suggests travelling to another time dimension, which is a non-sense.
In the future, all the SeeDs are dead and Ulti rules the world, but in present Squall and co. are travelling in the future to stop Ulti. If in the future all SeeDs are dead, when Squall reaches that TIME POINT mentioned above, shouldn't he instantly disappear or something?:confused:

[SeeDRankLou]

That's like saying that when Marty traveled to the past in Back to the Future he should have instantly separated into sperm and egg since he hadn't been conceived yet.

[Crizpy]

Yeah that didnt make much sense to me either.

Gotta be a pretty wierd experience to find out that the guy you met 13 years ago was yourself at the age of 17 (or whatever)

Yes, this was a worthless post.
Goodnight.

[Takara]

>>And what will happen to the world when Ulti died?
I mean, the sorceress must pass her power to someone. And after Ulti will be Edea. And so does that mean the rest of the ulti period will be no sorceress receiving the power?

Not necessarily. Unless Ultimecia and/or SeeD killed all the other sorceresses of her time, her death doesn't mean there won't be any more sorceresses after her death.

Besides, it was never stated in game that only one sorceress can exist during the same time period. I'm pretty sure it's even said at some point, by Edea no less, that there are other sorceresses in the world that conceal their power out of fear.

[Jessweeee♪]

FFVIII is my second favorite Final Fantasy, but I always avoid the forums because the TC discussions makes me think of time loops, which give me a headache.

[Mirage]

Time loops are the best. They're almost like drugs.

[ragnosica]

That's like saying that when Marty traveled to the past in Back to the Future he should have instantly separated into sperm and egg since he hadn't been conceived yet.
exactly ,and it's initially sperm, not egg, egg is after:D

[cloud21zidane16]

That's like saying that when Marty traveled to the past in Back to the Future he should have instantly separated into sperm and egg since he hadn't been conceived yet.

also its like saying on part 2 he goes into the future(2015 i think:rolleyes2 ) if he checked old news reports it would say he was missing since 1985:D

[CimminyCricket]

That's like saying that when Marty traveled to the past in Back to the Future he should have instantly separated into sperm and egg since he hadn't been conceived yet.

xD That would have made a wonderful movie!

[The Crystal]

What do you mean that we aren't given a reason? Have you been paying attention at all?
In the game, it was said that she wanted to kill all SeeD, because SeeD was opposed to her. But in her time, all the SeeD have been killed, and she already had control of the world.

So she really didn't have much of a reason to try to compress time. She wanted to make it so that SeeD never existed apparently, which eventually led to her downfall, because the SeeD in the present discovered what she was planning, and Ellone sent Squall and co. to the future, and Ultimecia was defeated.

But you're right, she's such a horrible villain.

Completely wrong. Ultimecia is not that stupid, play the game again.

Ultimecia's reason:


Ultimecia, transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all existence as we speak.
She wanted to absorb existence and become... God.

Is like i allways say. The majority of people that don't like her as a villain, are people that didn't understand the story.


And the UOG already proved that Rinoa isn't Ultimecia.

[Crizpy]

Whats a UOG?

[The Crystal]

Whats a UOG?

UOG = Ultimania Omega Guide. A book created by SE that explain some things about the story, that weren't explained in the game. Each FF have a UOG.

[Crizpy]

Anyone got a link to that?
Could only find the FFVII translated version of the guide.

[PuPu]

play the game again.
I'd rather not live through this nightmare again.

How am I not correct? As she was controlling Edea, she made it apparent that she was trying to destroy the SeeD, and if she had killed the SeeDs in the present, SeeD could not exist in the future.


Ultimecia is not that stupid
Um, yeah she is. All the SeeDs were dead in her time and she already ruled the world in the future. If she had never gone back to the past, Squall and the gang would never have found out about her and she could have still ruled the future and not have been killed.


The majority of people that don't like her as a villain, are people that didn't understand the story.
First of all, I have this to say. Lol, some story. The whole story of FF8 was really focused on Squall and Rinoa and very little of anyone else. And the Orphanage revelation, Lol. But the story isn't what I'm trying to debate about.

Alright, as for Ulti, you never even found out that she was trying to compress time until near the end of Disc 3. I don't even understand how destroying SeeD and compressing time were even related. Also, what was the point of her plan of starting a sorceress war?

And lets see, you know almost nothing about her backstory or why she turned out the way she did unlike other villains. Also, she says almost nothing really good or special. When she was in Edea's body, she said how she hated and wanted to destroy SeeD. And when you meet her in the future, she said said something along the lines of "Stupid SeeDs, I hate you. Now I will compress time and destroy you." Later in the battle in her final form, she says more of "I will compress time and rule the universe," and some more crap as she's dying to throw off Squall and the gang. Killing SeeD and compressing time are all she really talked about; Yawn.

Also, she really didn't have any significance at all except for being some sorceress from the future. Kefka was the right hand man of Gestahl, who is the leader of the Imperial army. The Imperial army had also been doing experiments with Magic/Magitek (which is what one of the main focuses of VI was), which was very related to Terra, who was arguably the main character. Kefka was also fused with Magic/Magitek as well. Sephiroth and Cloud were part of Shinra and had met before in the past, and we find out the backstory between them both. Kuja was created by Garland, like Zidane, and they were "brothers". These villains all had more purpose and meaning to them and more than just being a villain of a game.

And Crystal, if it will make you happy, I'll change my statement to "I don't like Ultimecia" rather than "Ultimecia is a bad villain."

[jammi567]

How am I not correct? As she was controlling Edea, she made it apparent that she was trying to destroy the SeeD, and if she had killed the SeeDs in the present, SeeD could not exist in the future.
Imagine that you were Squall and Co. who have just come back from the future. What are you going to do? You're going to tell the leading people who will actually believe you: Odine, Laguna, maybe even Edea. So they publish books on the subject (you just know that Odine would publish one). So everybody knows that in the future, SeeD's from 'now' will travel to the future, and destroy some sorceress called Ultimecia.

Hundreds of years later, a girl grows up with sorceress powers, and everybody hates her because of the book that was published. She gets angry with this, and decides to call herself Ultimecia. Once done, she decides that she want's to kill all the SeeD's and defy fate. So she does time compression so that they will be stuck in a void of time forever. But Squall and Co. use the compressed time, and well, you know what happens.

[PuPu]

How am I not correct? As she was controlling Edea, she made it apparent that she was trying to destroy the SeeD, and if she had killed the SeeDs in the present, SeeD could not exist in the future.
Imagine that you were Squall and Co. who have just come back from the future. What are you going to do? You're going to tell the leading people who will actually believe you: Odine, Laguna, maybe even Edea. So they publish books on the subject (you just know that Odine would publish one). So everybody knows that in the future, SeeD's from 'now' will travel to the future, and destroy some sorceress called Ultimecia.

Hundreds of years later, a girl grows up with sorceress powers, and everybody hates her because of the book that was published. She gets angry with this, and decides to call herself Ultimecia. Once done, she decides that she want's to kill all the SeeD's and defy fate. So she does time compression so that they will be stuck in a void of time forever. But Squall and Co. use the compressed time, and well, you know what happens.

When was all of this information said in FF8? I never remembered anything that said Ultimecia being some person who was hated in the future because she was a sorceress.

[Goldenboko]

How am I not correct? As she was controlling Edea, she made it apparent that she was trying to destroy the SeeD, and if she had killed the SeeDs in the present, SeeD could not exist in the future.
Imagine that you were Squall and Co. who have just come back from the future. What are you going to do? You're going to tell the leading people who will actually believe you: Odine, Laguna, maybe even Edea. So they publish books on the subject (you just know that Odine would publish one). So everybody knows that in the future, SeeD's from 'now' will travel to the future, and destroy some sorceress called Ultimecia.

Hundreds of years later, a girl grows up with sorceress powers, and everybody hates her because of the book that was published. She gets angry with this, and decides to call herself Ultimecia. Once done, she decides that she want's to kill all the SeeD's and defy fate. So she does time compression so that they will be stuck in a void of time forever. But Squall and Co. use the compressed time, and well, you know what happens.

When was all of this information said in FF8? I never remembered anything that said Ultimecia being some person who was hated in the future because she was a sorceress.
Perhaps you don't remember this from the game because you know... it wasn't in the game.

[Jessweeee♪]

Um, yeah she is. All the SeeDs were dead in her time and she already ruled the world in the future. If she had never gone back to the past, Squall and the gang would never have found out about her and she could have still ruled the future and not have been killed.


That's not true. She had to go to the past to get Ellone, so she could compress time and rule the world. If she doesn't do that, then she doesn't rule everything, just her own era. Rulling her own era wasn't enough for her. Defeating Squall was just another little errand she had to run while possessing Edea.

And that's all I'm going to say here.

[Xurts]

How am I not correct? As she was controlling Edea, she made it apparent that she was trying to destroy the SeeD, and if she had killed the SeeDs in the present, SeeD could not exist in the future.
Imagine that you were Squall and Co. who have just come back from the future. What are you going to do? You're going to tell the leading people who will actually believe you: Odine, Laguna, maybe even Edea. So they publish books on the subject (you just know that Odine would publish one). So everybody knows that in the future, SeeD's from 'now' will travel to the future, and destroy some sorceress called Ultimecia.

Hundreds of years later, a girl grows up with sorceress powers, and everybody hates her because of the book that was published. She gets angry with this, and decides to call herself Ultimecia. Once done, she decides that she want's to kill all the SeeD's and defy fate. So she does time compression so that they will be stuck in a void of time forever. But Squall and Co. use the compressed time, and well, you know what happens.

When was all of this information said in FF8? I never remembered anything that said Ultimecia being some person who was hated in the future because she was a sorceress.
It wasn't in the game, he's just thinking what if.

Here's an interesting analysis of the whole Ultimecia/time thing:
GameFAQs: Final Fantasy VIII (PS) Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ by Sir Bahamut (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/34215)

[The Crystal]

Um, yeah she is. All the SeeDs were dead in her time and she already ruled the world in the future. If she had never gone back to the past, Squall and the gang would never have found out about her and she could have still ruled the future and not have been killed.


That's not true. She had to go to the past to get Ellone, so she could compress time and rule the world. If she doesn't do that, then she doesn't rule everything, just her own era. Rulling her own era wasn't enough for her. Defeating Squall was just another little errand she had to run while possessing Edea.

And that's all I'm going to say here.

Exactly. Her objective was to absorb existence itself and become God, not to kill the SeeDs. They were just in her way. If her objective was to kill them, she would never make TC in the first place, because she ISN'T stupid. If you remember the game Pupu, you will remember that she manipulated Delling, the nation of Galbadia, the Gardens, the Lunar Cry, etc. Even if you don't like her character, Pupu, you cannot say with a straight face that she was stupid.

[jammi567]

No, she wasn'y stupid, she was just arrogant and thought that she could defy fate.

[Goldenboko]

No, she wasn'y stupid, she was just arrogant and thought that she could defy fate.

Arrogance and Ignorance are signs of stupidity ;)

[PhoenixAsh]

Veering on topic for a moment. R=U gets a lot more stick than it deserves in my opinion. I can't remember the arguments fully, but I defended an agnostic position regarding it back before Ultimania got brought to light. Now that Ultimania is around the whole thing does seem a lot less likely, but don't let people tell you it was just a crazy theory by stupid people. I have been in countless numbers of these debates. There was plenty of evidence to at least suggest the possibility of R=U, and many opponents of R=U often presented far less reasonable arguments and (thanks I guess to their side being more popular) did so far more arrogantly.

[jammi567]

No, she wasn'y stupid, she was just arrogant and thought that she could defy fate.

Arrogance and Ignorance are signs of stupidity ;)
Really? So if i was arrogant, and really want to do something badly, that would make me stupid. And if i don't know a particular thing, that makes me overall stupid?

[Crizpy]

Veering on topic for a moment. R=U gets a lot more stick than it deserves in my opinion. I can't remember the arguments fully, but I defended an agnostic position regarding it back before Ultimania got brought to light. Now that Ultimania is around the whole thing does seem a lot less likely, but don't let people tell you it was just a crazy theory by stupid people. I have been in countless numbers of these debates. There was plenty of evidence to at least suggest the possibility of R=U, and many opponents of R=U often presented far less reasonable arguments and (thanks I guess to their side being more popular) did so far more arrogantly.
Yeah, Ive got the impression that people for somewhat reason HATES the theory and the people who think its true.
At least from what I've seen on other forums (not this one)
They just throw things like "OMG NOT THIS AGAIN, RETARD, ITS OBVIOUS THAT ITS WRONG LOL" at you, then 90% of the rest of the posters jumps on the bandwagon.

Never really realised where all the hate comes from.

[PhoenixAsh]

Yeah, pretty much. There are people who intelligently argue against it. Sir Bahamut's analysis linked to above is very well thought out, even though I remember disagreeing with him over it. It tends, I think, to be people who act most hostile towards the theory that have the weakest arguments against it.

I never really understood the hostility. It isn't like R=U threads aren't clearly marked. They're pretty damn easy to avoid if you don't like them.

[The Crystal]

No, she wasn'y stupid, she was just arrogant and thought that she could defy fate.

Arrogance and Ignorance are signs of stupidity ;)

All FF villains are stupid then.



Seriously, stating that she was stupid just because you(anyone that think like that) don't like her as a character is... Well, stupid. It's the same thing if i say, "Kefka was so weak in the FFVI universe that even an ant could kill him LOL", just because i don't like him. You have the right to dislike Ultimecia, but at least, give credit to her for what she did. In FFVIII she manipulated... Everyone. Of the FF villains i know, she is one of the smartest.

[ragnosica]

i'll give u one small argument for why is Ultimecia the smartest: she manipulated Seifer into following her. Now, when Seifer wanted to give Rinoa to Adel she tried to persuade him to cahnge his mind, but she DID NOT succed...that blew me away. If Ultimecia outpassed Rinoa at persuading than not only that she isn't stupid, she's a friggin genius:D :D .
As for the R=U theory u all missed the point. It's not given as a debate subject, or as a certainty, or as an impossibility for that matter. It's just a plain POSSIBILITY; like the possibility that Shadow is Relm's father in FFVI. Given that it's not pointed out in the game but merely suggested, none of you will ever be able to give a conclusion. End of story.
As for time compression, the reason why she compressed time although she didn't have to is simple and I tip the hat to SE for this idea. No matter how sweet the future sounds/is, nobody likes an inconvenient present.:choc2:

[Goldenboko]

Last time I try to make a joke... ever.

[Forsaken Lover]

Just ignore that quote from Crystal. It contradicts the entire plot of the game. Here is what Ultimecia is really after.

Time compression. Time compression? It's time magic. Past, present, and future get compressed. What's going to happen to the world? Why do something like that?

Rinoa: (to Squall) ...I should tell you this before I go. I was possessed out in space. There was a sorceress inside me. Ultimecia, a sorceress from the future. She's trying to achieve time compression. She's the only one who would be able to exist in such a world.

Ultimecia: The world was on the brink of that ever-elusive 'time compression'.

Ultimecia (in her final form): Time shall compress... All existence erased.

Ultimecia is the only being, for wheatever reason, that can exist in a Time Compression world. Everything else is denied and dead.

And for all we know, Adel could have been stronger than Ultimecia.

If we want to actually give Ultimecia some "depth" we can say she is a victim of her own fear. She is the supreme being of her time but the thought of someone rising up eventually and defeating her haunts her. She seeks to remove this by making herself the only being alive. Of course, by doing so, she ensures her destruction.

It's a common plot element for characters.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Oh my goodness this theory will never end. D: I've been gone for months and it's still here.

[The Crystal]

Just ignore that quote from Crystal. It contradicts the entire plot of the game. Here is what Ultimecia is really after.

Translation: "Just ignore the official word of SE. I'm right and they are wrong.
Seriously guys, please, ignore the Scan created by SE to explain Ultimecia's power. If we don't ignore it, that means she is more powerful than my loveable Kuja. And as a big fanboy, i cannot accept it."

In the end of the game, TC was happening, but it wasn't finished yet. This is why SeeD was capable of going through it, and leaving it in Ultimecia's future(like Odine explained). TC wasn't happening in Ultimecia's time, yet. But during the final battle, Ultimecia's time begun to suffer it's consequences, and then she begun to absorb time and space to inside herself(in her final form). She was practicaly compressing time inside herself.
This is probably why she would be the only one to exist in a Time Compressed world. Because a Time Compressed world would be the result of TC, the end of it. All time would be compressed... Inside herself. She would be the only one to "exist"(actualy, she would be existence itself).

We don't know why she wanted to absorb the universe. Maybe she has a good reason we don't know. Or maybe she was just power hungry.
But the fact is that she was absorbing all existence. This is a fact presented in the game. Accept it or shut up.

[Xurts]

It must get really lonely just sitting there on your throne in your castle in a time compressed world. =(

[Forsaken Lover]

Translation: "Just ignore the official word of SE. I'm right and they are wrong.
Seriously guys, please, ignore the Scan created by SE to explain Ultimecia's power. If we don't ignore it, that means she is more powerful than my loveable Kuja. And as a big fanboy, i cannot accept it."

More like "please guys. Don't listen to the person using a quote that contradicts what ULTIMECIA HERSELF says."

And I don't believe your scan. NO ONE is saying it except you. I challenge someone to confirm what you say. Go to the final boss with Ultimecia and scan her final form and see if it says that. I KNOW I scanned her and I don't remember that at all.



In the end of the game, TC was happening, but it wasn't finished yet. This is why SeeD was capable of going through it, and leaving it in Ultimecia's future(like Odine explained). TC wasn't happening in Ultimecia's time, yet. But during the final battle, Ultimecia's time begun to suffer it's consequences, and then she begun to absorb time and space to inside herself(in her final form). She was practicaly compressing time inside herself.
This is probably why she would be the only one to exist in a Time Compressed world. Because a Time Compressed world would be the result of TC, the end of it. All time would be compressed... Inside herself. She would be the only one to "exist"(actualy, she would be existence itself).

Nope. Doesn't work. Time Compression mixes together the past, present and future. If Time Compression hadn't even reached her world yet, it definitely didn't reach the future.

And specifically

But during the final battle, Ultimecia's time begun to suffer it's consequences, and then she begun to absorb time and space

Prove that.

[The Crystal]

More like "please guys. Don't listen to the person using a quote that contradicts what ULTIMECIA HERSELF says.

I don't remember of contradicting anything. Can you show me this "contradiction"?


And I don't believe your scan. NO ONE is saying it except you. I challenge someone to confirm what you say.


Edit: Actually, she's absorbing existence during the last fight. When Squall and the other was traveling through time compression, She wasn't absorbing existence...And yes it did say that when you scanned her...:cool:[!] / message [/!][!] sig [/!]


Go to the final boss with Ultimecia and scan her final form and see if it says that. I KNOW I scanned her and I don't remember that at all.

Maybe because you scanned the lower body? Like i said before, you have to scan the upper body.


Nope. Doesn't work. Time Compression mixes together the past, present and future. If Time Compression hadn't even reached her world yet, it definitely didn't reach the future.

Sorry, but i don't understand what you mean. "Her world" is the future. It's where/when she live. TC reached her future ONLY in the final battle.


Prove that.

In Ultimecia's time, SeeD were out of TC(like Odine explained). But in the final battle, things begun to go crazy. The place where you fight Greiver, is not Ulti's throne room, and the end battle is in space. That was TC happening(like when you fight against the sorceresses of diferent times, in many diferent places).
And if you scan Ulti's upper body, you discover she is absorbing all existence.

Some sites that prove she was absorbing existence:

Go to the letter U:

The FF8 Enemy Scan Guide v0.16 - By Justin Butler (http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff8/info/ff8_sg.html#124)

Go to the end of the page:

chaos2 - FF - Quotes File - Final_Fantasy_8 (http://chaos2.org/ff/quotes/ff-Final_Fantasy_8-quotes.shtml)

Go to the letter U:

Guides: Final Fantasy VIII (http://guides.ign.com/guides/3847/page_16.html)

Exist many other sites like that, but i will not search for all of them.
If you still don't believe the scan exist, then play the damn game and see for yourself.

Ultimecia's reason is unknown, but her objective was absorb the universe and become existence itself(God). Something that she was doing in the end.

Sorry, but Kuja is a joke compared to her.

[Lynx]

I think it makes perfect sense.
Theres a lot of things in the game that is hinting towards the theory beeing true.

Besides, we're never given a reason to why it is that Ulti wanna compress time.
Just for the hell of it? Seems pretty weak.

one of the flaws in FFVIII.
R=U was true i think the story would have been worse. ellone=ultimecia makes a million times more sense to me but whatever.

[Christmas]

That's debatable

The truth is... Jenova is Ultimecia.
Yep, FFVII's 'background villain' is actually Ultimecia.
There is IRREFUTABLE PROOF in both games.

Jenova can survive travel through space. Thus, Jenova could get from one world to another. If the worlds of FFVII and FFVIII are in fact the same world, then this is fine too - Jenova can survive for millennia, buried in solid rock.

"But Jenova was destroyed!" you all cry. Actually, Jenova's body has the ability to re-form when it's dismembered - even when it's apparently dead.

Both Jenova and Ultimecia are female, and both want to attain God-like power and rule over an entire world.

Jenova has the power to change her form. Ultimecia transforms, as well. Jenova can alter her appearance, gaining the appearance and voice of other people. Jenova and Ultimecia look nothing alike, which proves that they are one and the same, just using different forms.

This is utterly, completely, irrefutably, incontrovertibly, undoubtedly, undeniably, undisputably, indubitablly, unquestionably true.
Coz I sez so.

[Forsaken Lover]

I don't remember of contradicting anything. Can you show me this "contradiction"?


Ultimecia is absorbing existence is what YOU are saying.

Ultimecia is compressing time is what EVERYTHING, including Ultimecia, say.


Maybe because you scanned the lower body? Like i said before, you have to scan the upper body.

I am asking more trustworthy sources on this matter.


Sorry, but i don't understand what you mean. "Her world" is the future. It's where/when she live. TC reached her future ONLY in the final battle.

Not said anywhere.

And she is only one future. Unless it says somewhere that the world ends with her, there is a future beyond her she would have to compress.


In Ultimecia's time, SeeD were out of TC(like Odine explained). But in the final battle, things begun to go crazy. The place where you fight Greiver, is not Ulti's throne room, and the end battle is in space. That was TC happening(like when you fight against the sorceresses of diferent times, in many diferent places).

The battle with the Sorceresses took you through time. You’re supposed to enter Time Compressiona dn each fight moves you forward to Ultimecia’s world.

The fight with Ultimecia just appeared to be her transporting you around to various locations.

And the final battle is NOT in space. Squall and the others can’t breathe or move there. It’s a big, black void to represent what Ultimecia is doing; ie. Compressing time till nothing remains except her.


Ultimecia's reason is unknown, but her objective was absorb the universe and become existence itself(God). Something that she was doing in the end.

Maybe you can’t read.

We KNOW what she was doing because SHE SAID IT HERSELF.

Ultimecia: TIME SHALL COMPRESS....

You’re such a tool.


Sorry, but Kuja is a joke compared to her.

Tell me when Ultimecia survives a shot from Bahamut or destroys a planet. Or kills the entire party with one attack and then brings them back.

As for now, all she did was get tooled by Squall and his mates.

[The Crystal]

LOL
Forsaken Lover, you are amazing! You ignored all the links i presented, all evidences i showed, just to say that KUJA IS THE MOST POWERFUL EVERRR!!!!111ONEone.

She wanted to compress time inside of her body! This is why she said "Time shall compress" and begun to absorb it! This is what the game show us, with what she said(time shall compress), with what the Scan said(absorbing all existence), and with what the characters said(only Ultimecia would exist in the TC world[after TC is finished]).

If you want to ignore EVIDENCE PRESENTED IN THE GAME(SCAN) and continue with your retarded fanboyism, so be it.

The Scan is there to anyone playing the game. It's official and it's a fact. Your opinion will not change that.

Hell, i don't even know why i waste my time with a fanboy like you.

[Forsaken Lover]

I don't know why I waste my time with a moron like you either.

It is not said anywhere Ultimecia is compressing time in her body. NO WHERE.

Stop putting your assumptions into things.

If yAou want to contradict the PLOT, feel free. I don't care.

I mean who in their right mind will side with you? You argue the final battle is in SPACE, for crying out loud. You're a joke.

[Bolivar]

this is some heavy stuff in here!

[Karellen]

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x295/Karellen_LurkeroftheSkies/UltimeciaTrue.jpg

[Forsaken Lover]

Well, thank you.

SDid you get that off your game?

But we never see her absorb anything. Nor does she say she is absorbing anything. So...I'm left to conclude she never even came close to absorbing existence. i mean "as we speak" during a battle is pretty vague. That fight varies in length depending on the gamer and we see no account of what she "absorbed" before or after the battle.

It's pure contradictory, unsuppported hyperbole.

[Christmas]

We dun see Squall pee or eat or poo poo, I guess he never does that too. :(

[demondude]

We dun see Squall pee or eat or poo poo, I guess he never does that too. :(

[Forsaken Lover]

We dun see Squall pee or eat or poo poo, I guess he never does that too.

The primary difference being those are necessary biological functions for human beings. Squall has to do them because pure logic demands it.

We never see Ultimecia absorbing anything. Some statements on matters such as these, when not shown, can be declared hyperbole. For instance, that quote says "all existence" - while another scan specifies "the world." So, we have contradiction. Actually witnessing her absorbing anything would help clarify clashing statements.

The fact is, when you are determining what a fictional character can do, you need more than just quotes. You need to see them in action or else it can be contested. I contest Ultimecia can't absorb existence because she never did. She never managed to absorb the party and we never se eher absorbing any sort of thing whatsoever. So why assume she is? Nothing but that statement says she is. And when the quote specifies "as we speak" during a battle, it makes things even more iffy. I mean, I could leave my game on in that fight for HOURS and nothing visibly would change.

The wholt hing is an absolute mess to try and reason.

[Christmas]

Yes, able to survive bullet shots countless time with numbers popping out instead of blood is logic enough. :bigsmile:

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

It sure is, believe it! :p

[Forsaken Lover]

Yes, able to survive bullet shots countless time with numbers popping out instead of blood is logic enough.

That's what we call "game mechanics." In the battle, things don't work the way they do in the "real" FF8 wordl. For instance, your HP goes to 0 and you're KO'ed. But it has no effect on you in the "real" FF8 world.

Squall bled just fine from a simple flash across the forehead in the opening.

[Christmas]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a155/Unknowns2/The_Matrix_Poster.jpg

[ragnosica]

my eyes hurt, could someone pls close this topic?!:( :(

[jammi567]

This would actually be a worthy topic to close and sticky, as an example of why these kind of threads should be banned.

[The Crystal]

This would actually be a worthy topic to close

I agree. The UOG already proved the theory is false.


and sticky, as an example of why these kind of threads should be banned.

I disagree. The problem is not in the thread itself, but in a fanboy that entered here, trying to discredit Ultimecia's power just to prove that his favorite character is more powerful than her. All of that because of another thread named "Final Fantasy Villains - Most Powerful".

Her objective is explained in the final battle, but in the same time, it show the level of her power. Because of that, Forsaken want us to ignore the explanation of her objective, because in the same time, we would be ignoring her true power. And he could say "See? My favorite character is more powerfullllLLL!!11"
We are here to discuss about R=U and Ultimecia's objective in the story. Forsaken Lover is here to ignore the explanation presented in the game and discredit her power, to prove something he said in ANOTHER thread.

Like i said, the problem is not in the topic of this thread, but in a guy that enterd here to argue about something, that should be argued here: http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-final-fantasy/105419-final-fantasy-villains-most-powerful.html

[jammi567]

Ohh, yeah, i know the thread you're talking about, and i totally agree with what you're saying. Maybe you're right, and it shouldn't be sticked.

[Crizpy]

This thread is obviously going places..where? We do not know yet, but its definatly on its journey from bad to better.

When that beeing said, I think we should sticky this thread just becouse I made it.

[Forsaken Lover]

I disagree. The problem is not in the thread itself, but in a fanboy that entered here, trying to discredit Ultimecia's power just to prove that his favorite character is more powerful than her. All of that because of another thread named "Final Fantasy Villains - Most Powerful".

The problem is you using hyperbole statements flatly contradicted time and time againa nd then resorting to assuming and twisting facts to suit you with no evidence. I dare you to find me one time they say Ultimecia is compressing time in her body.

What we have is another scan, which you conveniently ignore,t hat flatly disproves all the bull you say.

You were laughed out of the other thread. You’re wrong. Get over it.


Her objective is explained in the final battle, but in the same time, it show the level of her power

Actually, no. Her objective was explained by Edea. She is the only being capable of living in a Time Compressed world.


Because of that, Forsaken want us to ignore the explanation of her objective, because in the same time, we would be ignoring her true power.

Ignoring evidence is your speciality.

I examine all quotes and statements and see that they all support what I say. While you have one hyperbole statement to support your pitiful claims.



And he could say "See? My favorite character is more powerfullllLLL!!11"

Everyone with half a brain knows blowing up a planet is more impressive than doing...nothing. Which is what Ultimecia did. Because we saw nor were told of what she was doing. “As we speak” during a fight which can last minutes or hours.


We are here to discuss about R=U and Ultimecia's objective in the story. Forsaken Lover is here to ignore the explanation presented in the game and discredit her power, to prove something he said in ANOTHER thread.

I already posted Ultimecia’s objective. Compress time till nothing but herself can exist.


Like i said, the problem is not in the topic of this thread, but in a guy that enterd here to argue about something, that should be argued here: Final Fantasy Villains - Most Powerful

You mean the thread you left when you got your ass beat?

Good times.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

...can't we all just get along? D: I've been seeing threads like this forever, I think if it's ever brought up people just need to set it aside and leave it alone because nothing is going to get solved and the fanboys who believe R=U will never learn.

[Lynx]

wow i think things got out of hand there. name calling and insulting not really neccesary its only a game :D

im gonna jsut agree with christmas on this one Jenova=ultimecia :D

[NeoCracker]

wow i think things got out of hand there. name calling and insulting not really neccesary its only a game :D

im gonna jsut agree with christmas on this one Jenova=ultimecia :D

Clearly the only logical person Ultimetica could be is Emeror Ghestal. I mean, you never see a body after he dies. And both he and Ultimecia want to rule everything.

It's such a clear cut and obviously true theory that any one who discredits it is obviously an FF VIII Hater and has not Idea what they are talking about.

[The Crystal]

Like i said before Forsaken Fanboy, Edea knew sh*t about how TC worked, and because of that, what she said don't have more validity than the official word of SE. And anyone that agreed with you in that other thread was wrong because, SE >>>>>>>>>> You or any other person in this forum. You and the other fanboys in that thread weren't arguing against me, they were arguing against the word of SE.
Resuming, i got my "ass beat" by people that think "I'M RIGHT AND SQUARE-ENIX IS WRONG! LOL"

Ultimecia wasn't absorbing all existence, it was just hyperbole of the Scan. The Scan, something that is NOT a character, and was created by SE to give us precise information about the enemies in the game, was wrong! LOL

But when we saw Kuja destroying some buildings/towers/whatever, and Mikoto SAID he destroyed an entire planet... It wasn't hyperbole! LOL

This is not an insult, but a fact: You are a fanboy. Just shut up and go away.


Clearly the only logical person Ultimetica could be is Emeror Ghestal. I mean, you never see a body after he dies. And both he and Ultimecia want to rule everything.

It's such a clear cut and obviously true theory that any one who discredits it is obviously an FF VIII Hater and has not Idea what they are talking about.

Oh please! :rolleyes2

It's obvious that Ultimecia is Fujin. Both of them have silver hair. SILVER HAIR!! This is something so obvious that you cannot disagree with.

:p

[NeoCracker]

Like i said before Forsaken Fanboy, Edea knew sh*t about how TC worked, and because of that, what she said don't have more validity than the official word of SE. And anyone that agreed with you in that other thread was wrong because, SE >>>>>>>>>> You or any other person in this forum. You and the other fanboys in that thread weren't arguing against me, they were arguing against the word of SE.
Resuming, i got my "ass beat" by people that think "I'M RIGHT AND SQUARE-ENIX IS WRONG! LOL"

Ultimecia wasn't absorbing all existence, it was just hyperbole of the Scan. The Scan, something that is NOT a character, and was created by SE to give us precise information about the enemies in the game, was wrong! LOL

But when we saw Kuja destroying some buildings/towers/whatever, and Mikoto SAID he destroyed an entire planet... It wasn't hyperbole! LOL

This is not an insult, but a fact: You are a fanboy. Just shut up and go away.


Clearly the only logical person Ultimetica could be is Emeror Ghestal. I mean, you never see a body after he dies. And both he and Ultimecia want to rule everything.

It's such a clear cut and obviously true theory that any one who discredits it is obviously an FF VIII Hater and has not Idea what they are talking about.

Oh please! :rolleyes2

It's obvious that Ultimecia is Fujin. Both of them have silver hair. SILVER HAIR!! This is something so obvious that you cannot disagree with.

:p

While I don't agree You can say Ultimecia is the strongest, I do agree that the Scan is entirely valid.

However your deduction of her identity is rubbish. I mean its Fujin, come on. Fujin? Thats like saying Peanut Butter and Jelly actually go together, which so clearly they do not.

[jammi567]

This is just so pathetic, and yet funny to read at the same time.

[Crizpy]

...can't we all just get along? D: I've been seeing threads like this forever, I think if it's ever brought up people just need to set it aside and leave it alone because nothing is going to get solved and the fanboys who believe R=U will never learn.
So thinking the theory might be true, makes you a fanboy?

Great...

[ragnosica]

You know what I think --------> Ultimecia is CHOPIN (the purple octopus from FFVI) because her hair and his tentacles..MMM...it's just sooo right:D :D :D :D . Seriously, just because 2 characters from different games are almost the same doesn't mean they ARE the same person. That's absurd. That's like saying that Cloud and Squall are the same just because they both have gunblades and they use cool acrobatics in between. Sure, you're gonna say that their hair colour is different. WELL MAYBE CLOUD LIKED BROWN IN THE END, HOW'S THAT FOR A POSSIBILTY? :mog:

[Forsaken Lover]

Like i said before Forsaken Fanboy

Let’s all give The Crystal a nice hand for his oh so witty use of alliteration.


Edea knew sh*t about how TC worked

Prove it. Show me a quote where Edea is wrong about Ultimecia. She says she is after Time Compression and tells us what it is. This statement is NEVER contradicted by anything. Even backed up solidly by a scan. You know, the ONLY evidence you have? A single scan? You’re pathetic.


and because of that, what she said don't have more validity than the official word of SE.

The official word of SE is that Ultimecia is using Time Compression.


And anyone that agreed with you in that other thread was wrong because, SE >>>>>>>>>> You or any other person in this forum.

I believe this speaks volumes for how childish you are.

What SE says is not law. If a person goes by actual showings, Ultimecia is not even close to the strongest. Some people only use this because statements are often misleading. But you declare them ALL wrong. Their opinions are ALL wrong because you cling like an infant to a single quote which is contradicted by ANOTHER solid SE statement in ANOTHER scan.


You and the other fanboys in that thread weren't arguing against me, they were arguing against the word of SE.

We are not so easily swayed by a single thing as you are. Perhaps, in the fact we possess several more IQ points than yourself, we can examine the larger picture. Like the fact another solid SE quote disproves the single quote you use as your lame foundation for an even lamer assertion that a thoroughly lame villain is powerful.


Resuming, i got my "ass beat" by people that think "I'M RIGHT AND SQUARE-ENIX IS WRONG! LOL"

The shrill ravings of a 3-year-old who doesn’t get his way.


Ultimecia wasn't absorbing all existence, it was just hyperbole of the Scan. The Scan, something that is NOT a character, and was created by SE to give us precise information about the enemies in the game, was wrong! LOL

It is hyperbole when ANOTHER scan flatly contradicts it.



But when we saw Kuja destroying some buildings/towers/whatever, and Mikoto SAID he destroyed an entire planet... It wasn't hyperbole! LOL

Actually 2 people said it.

And it’s not contradicted by other statements like your quote is.


This is not an insult, but a fact: You are a fanboy. Just shut up and go away.

You’re the laughing stock of this entire forum, dude.

[Karellen]

It’s probably worth noting that instances where Time Compression is said to be affecting the world don’t necessarily contradict the instances where Time Compression is said to be affecting all existence. “The World” and “All Existence” are not mutually exclusive. Maybe if the additional information said “Time Compression Effect the world and only the world” the exclusivity of the two would be undeniable separate, but as The World is by default included in a category such as “All Existence” (due to the fact that it exists) then one could argue that the later scan does not retcon earlier information but merely expands upon it.

Or maybe not. I don't think I care enough to dwell any further upon the subject.

[Forsaken Lover]

I've already posted to how the "world" is defined in FF8. Timelines are "world." "Our world" refers to the time of FF8's crew. "Ultimecia's World" refers to her time.

However, a universe at large is never mentioned and thus, I don't want to assume this all is universal. Just the "worlds" of everyone on the FF8 planet.

[The Crystal]

Let’s all give The Crystal a nice hand for his oh so witty use of alliteration.

Let's give Forsaken Lover the prize of "The Biggest Fanboy in the Internet"


Prove it. Show me a quote where Edea is wrong about Ultimecia. She says she is after Time Compression and tells us what it is. This statement is NEVER contradicted by anything. Even backed up solidly by a scan. You know, the ONLY evidence you have? A single scan?

The problem is that you don't understand what Time Compression is. To say the truth, you understand nothing about Ultimecia or TC. This is why you say the scans contradict the story. Play the game again, and pay atention.


You’re pathetic.

If i'm pathetic, what you are? I don't even want to think about that. Poor, poor Forsaken Fanboy in his little existence that is beyond pathetic. :cry:


The official word of SE is that Ultimecia is using Time Compression.

And you know what TC is? You know why she would be the only one to exist? I know.


What SE says is not law.

Wrong again kid. You love to be wrong all the time, don't you?
Everything SE says about FF is a law. They created the games, they created the stories, they created the worlds and characters, and they know more about them than you.


We are not so easily swayed by a single thing as you are. Perhaps, in the fact we possess several more IQ points than yourself, we can examine the larger picture.

Then try to use your IQ points for something better than being a fanboy in the internet.


Like the fact another solid SE quote disproves the single quote you use as your lame foundation for an even lamer assertion that a thoroughly lame villain is powerful.

If you believe a quote from SE disprove the other, than SE are a bunch of idiots to contradict themselfes, aren't they? Or maybe you didn't understand the story, and is the idiot here.


The shrill ravings of a 3-year-old who doesn’t get his way.

If i'm 3 years old, you aren't even born.


It is hyperbole when ANOTHER scan flatly contradicts it.

This is something that only YOU say. Because you are the only one that didn't understand them.


Actually 2 people said it.

And it's still hyperbole.


And it’s not contradicted by other statements like your quote is.

Other statements of characters in the game, not SE itself.


You’re the laughing stock of this entire forum, dude.

Wow, you are really blind aren't you? Everyone is agreeing with me about the Scan. And... They are laughing of you.

Stop okay. For your own good, stop. You are just making yourself look like a fool.

[Forsaken Lover]

Let's give Forsaken Lover the prize of "The Biggest Fanboy in the Internet"

Everyone has already given you that title.


The problem is that you don't understand what Time Compression is. To say the truth, you understand nothing about Ultimecia or TC. This is why you say the scans contradict the story. Play the game again, and pay atention.

I do understand. More than you, obviously. Because I use more than a single quote.


If i'm pathetic, what you are? I don't even want to think about that. Poor, poor Forsaken Fanboy in his little existence that is beyond pathetic.

Me, I’m good. I got a new movie to watch and am off to eat a restaurant.


And you know what TC is? You know why she would be the only one to exist? I know.

Yes I do know. Because only she can exist in a world where everything is mixed together. As flatly stated.


Wrong again kid. You love to be wrong all the time, don't you?
Everything SE says about FF is a law. They created the games, they created the stories, they created the worlds and characters, and they know more about them than you.

Uh-huh. I never denied this. This is why I use SE quotes to shoot down your pathetic argument.


Then try to use your IQ points for something better than being a fanboy in the internet.

I already have. I’ve used them to prove you wrong time and time again.


If you believe a quote from SE disprove the other, than SE are a bunch of idiots to contradict themselfes, aren't them? Or maybe you didn't understand the story and is the idiot here.

I do understand the story. Ultimecia was using TC on the world.

As stated by SE themselves.


If i'm 3 years old, you aren't even born.

OMFG!111 I’ve PWNZr3D!


This is something that only YOU say. Because you are the only one that didn't understand them.

Actually, I do. I repeat: I know TC is effecting the world. As SE themselves say.


And it's still hyperbole.

Nah. It’s not contradicted like your pathetic quote is.

So, not hyperbole. Fact.


Other statements of characters in the game, not SE itself.

You and your selective sight.


Wow, you are really blind aren't you? Evryone is agreeing with me about the Scan. And... They are laughing of you.

Lol You missed the entire thread you yourself are posting in....

Everyone is calling you a stupid fanboy.

[scrumpleberry]

Oh will both of you shut up? You aren't contributing anything to the thread, you're just bickering.

"You don't undrestaaaand the plot stupid fanboi"

"Youre the fanboi! I understand it, youuuuuuu don't!"

"STUPIDHEAD, you're being STUPID, you STUPID FANBOI"

"Stupid Kuja fanboi, bleeeeh!"

"You're sooooo stupid, you fanboi."

"Cutting sarcasm"

"More cutting sarcasm"

"Superiority"


Come now children. Have some cookies and play nicely.

:cookie: :cookie:

[The Crystal]

Okay, i will ignore the insults because it's childish, and don't help the argument of anyone.


I do understand. More than you, obviously. Because I use more than a single quote.

Then explain to me why she would be the only one to exist in TC? I know the answer. And you?


Yes I do know. Because only she can exist in a world where everything is mixed together. As flatly stated.

And WHY only she can exist in a world where everything is mixed together? If you don't ignore the scans and understood the story, you can answer that.


Uh-huh. I never denied this. This is why I use SE quotes to shoot down your pathetic argument.

Yeah, you are using SE quotes to shoot down another SE quote. Wow, that make so much sense. SE aren't contradicting themselves, you didn't understand the story.


I already have. I’ve used them to prove you wrong time and time again.

Yes, you are proving that SE is wrong and you are right time and time again. XD


I do understand the story. Ultimecia was using TC on the world.

As stated by SE themselves.

Time and space is everywhere, not only in the planet. This is why they say she is absorbing ALL EXISTENCE and you fight her in SPACE.
She would change the world, because it's part of existence, and she would absorb all of it.

And lets say that one day, Nomura say "When he was a baby, Squall could reshape reallity with a fart". That would contradict many things in the game but would be TRUTH.

SE >>>>>>>>>> You


Actually, I do. I repeat: I know TC is effecting the world. As SE themselves say.

If she is affecting the universe, she is affecting the world too.


Nah. It’s not contradicted like your pathetic quote is.

So, not hyperbole. Fact.

Yes, SE are contradicting themselfes and you are completely right. :rolleyes2


You and your selective sight.

What Kitase, or Nomura, or other guy in SE says, IS more valid than what the characters say in the games. SE are the gods of FF universe, and know everything about it. The Scan was writed by SE, not by Squall, or Edea, or whatever. This is a fact.

You cannot choose what is canon and what isn't. Only SE can do that. Ultimecia can absorb time and space because SE said so. DEAL WITH IT.

[Forsaken Lover]

Yeah, you are using SE quotes to shoot down another SE quote. Wow, that make so much sense. SE aren't contradicting themselves, you didn't understand the story.

You keep saying that... I understand the story. She’s using TC on the planet. As said in the scan.


And WHY only she can exist in a world where everything is mixed together? If you don't ignore the scans and understood the story, you can answer that.

It’s not up to me to explain what is flatly said in the game.


Yes, you are proving that SE is wrong and you are right time and time again. XD

No. I’m proving Square Is right and you are wrong.

As Square said, she’s using time compression on the planet. Supported by scans and dialogue.


Time and space is everywhere, not only in the planet. This is why they say she is absorbing ALL EXISTENCE and you fight her in SPACE.

A. Humans can’t breathe or move in space. You fail on cosmic levels for continuing to fail to understand this. It’s just a big black space. Show me one feature that suggests it is space.
B. SE says she’s changing the world. World = planet.


She would change the world, because it's part of existence, and she would absorb all of it.

Except the quote says she’s changing the world and only the world. If she was gonna change more than just that, they’d say as much.

Every other quote only mentions the world as well.

Stop putting your own assumptions into factual discussion. If it doesn’t say it, it’s not there.


And lets say that one day, Nomura say "When he was a baby, Squall could reshape reallity with a fart". That would contradict many things in the game but would be TRUTH.

SE >>>>>>>>>> You

SE >>>>>>> You. That’s why Ultimecia only effected the world.


If she is affecting the universe, she is affecting the world too.

Except 4 quotes say the world and nothing more.

If it was more than just the world, they’d say as much in maybe at least 2 out of those 4 times. But they specifically only say “the world.”

SE >>>>>>> you adding things that aren’t there in the quotes they specifically put in the game.


Yes, SE are contradicting themselfes and you are completely right.

Ever heard of “plotholes”? 99% of fiction has some piece that contradicts another piece in the fiction. Your existence quote is at odds with 4 quotes saying it’s just the world.


What Kitase, or Nomura, or other guy in SE says, IS more valid than what the characters say in the games.

And they were kind enough to confirm Ultimecia was effecting only the world.


SE are the gods of FF universe, and know everything about it.

And like they say, Ultimecia is hoping to “change the WORLD”. Specifically the “world” and nothing else.


The Scan was writed by SE, not by Squall, or Edea, or whatever. This is a fact.

Yep. I don’t dispute that.

I use it in fact to shoot down all you say and so you reach and ASSUME things to try and make your argument fit when it contradicts everything in the game, including what SE says.

[jammi567]

I really don't want to get involved in this pathetic argument that no-one is ever going to solve, but what i post here is the definitions of what the word 'world' means fron Dictonary.com:

world http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fworld) /wɜrld/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wurld] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.the earth or globe, considered as a planet. 2.(often initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) a particular division of the earth: the Western world. 3.the earth or a part of it, with its inhabitants, affairs, etc., during a particular period: the ancient world. 4.humankind; the human race; humanity: The world must eliminate war and poverty. 5.the public generally: The whole world knows it. 6.the class of persons devoted to the affairs, interests, or pursuits of this life: The world worships success. 7.a particular class of people, with common interests, aims, etc.: the fashionable world. 8.any sphere, realm, or domain, with all pertaining to it: a child's world; the world of dreams; the insect world. 9.everything that exists; the universe; the macrocosm. 10.any complex whole conceived as resembling the universe: the world of the microcosm. 11.one of the three general groupings of physical nature: animal world; mineral world; vegetable world. 12.any period, state, or sphere of existence: this world; the world to come. 13.Often, worlds. a great deal: That vacation was worlds of fun. 14.any indefinitely great expanse. 15.any heavenly body: the starry worlds. —Idioms 16.bring into the world, a.to give birth to; bear: My grandmother brought nine children into the world. b.to deliver (a baby): the doctor brought many children into the world. 17.come into the world, to be born: Her first child came into the world in June. 18.for all the world, a.for any consideration, however great: She wouldn't come to visit us for all the world. b.in every respect; precisely: You look for all the world like my Aunt Mary. 19.in the world, a.at all; ever: I never in the world would have believed such an obvious lie. b.from among all possibilities: Where in the world did you find that hat? 20.on top of the world. top (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=top)^1 (def. 46). 21.out of this or the world, exceptional; fine: The chef prepared a roast duck that was out of this world. 22.set the world on fire, to achieve great fame and success: He didn't seem to be the type to set the world on fire. 23.think the world of, to like or admire greatly: His coworkers think the world of him. 24.world without end, for all eternity; for always.

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[Origin: bef. 900; ME; OE world, weorold; c. D wereld, G Welt, ON verǫld, all < Gmc *wer-ald- lit., age of manhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

—Synonyms 1. See earth. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=earth)


<CITE>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.</CITE>[!] end luna [/!][!] begin ahd4 [/!]<CITE>American Heritage Dictionary</CITE> (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=world&ia=ahd4) world http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fworld) (wûrld) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
[!]BOF_HEAD[/!]n. [!]EOF_HEAD[/!] [!]BOF_DEF[/!]
The earth.
The universe.
The earth with its inhabitants.
The inhabitants of the earth; the human race.

Humankind considered as social beings; human society: turned her back on the world.
People as a whole; the public: The event amazed the world.
A sphere of human activity or interest: the world of sports.
A class or group of people with common characteristics or pursuits: the scientific world.
Human existence; life: brought a child into the world.
A state of existence: the next world.
often World A specified part of the earth: the Western World.
A part of the earth and its inhabitants as known at a given period in history: the ancient world.
A realm or domain: the animal world; the world of imagination.

A sphere of human activity or interest: the world of sports.
A class or group of people with common characteristics or pursuits: the scientific world.
Human existence; life: brought a child into the world.
A state of existence: the next world.
A particular way of life: the world of the homeless.
All that relates to or affects the life of a person: He saw his world collapse about him.
Secular life and its concerns: a man of the world.

Human existence; life: brought a child into the world.
A state of existence: the next world.
A large amount; much. Often used in the plural: did her a world of good; candidates that are worlds apart on foreign policy.
A celestial body such as a planet: the possibility of life on other worlds.
[!]EOF_DEF[/!][!]BOF_HEAD[/!]adj. [!]EOF_HEAD[/!] [!]BOF_DEF[/!]
Of or relating to the world: a world champion.
Involving or extending throughout the entire world: a world crisis.
[!]EOF_DEF[/!][!]BOF_DEF[/!]
[Middle English, from Old English <TT>weorold</TT>; see <TT>wī-ro-</TT> in Indo-European roots.]
[!]EOF_DEF[/!]
(Download Now (http://dictionary.reference.com/go/http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/eref/buy_HMAFF00004.jsp) or Buy the Book (http://dictionary.reference.com/bookstore/ahd4.html)) <CITE>The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.</CITE>[!] end ahd4 [/!][!] begin etymon [/!]<CITE>Online Etymology Dictionary</CITE> (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/etymon.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=world&ia=etymon)
world

O.E. woruld, worold "human existence, the affairs of life," also "the human race, mankind," a word peculiar to Gmc. languages (cf. O.S. werold, O.Fris. warld, Du. wereld, O.N. verold, O.H.G. weralt, Ger. Welt), with a literal sense of "age of man," from P.Gmc. *wer "man" (O.E. wer, still in werewolf; see virile (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/virile)) + *ald "age" (see old (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/old)). Originally "life on earth, this world (as opposed to the afterlife)," sense extended to "the known world" (e.g. "Greatest Show on Earth"), then to "the physical world in the broadest sense, the universe" (c.1200). In O.E. gospels, the commonest word for "the physical world," was Middangeard (O.N. Midgard), lit. "the middle enclosure" (cf. yard), which is rooted in Gmc. cosmology. Gk. kosmos in its ecclesiastical sense of "world of people" sometimes was rendered in Goth. as manaseþs, lit. "seed of man." The usual O.N. word was heimr, lit. "abode" (see home). Words for "world" in some other I.E. languages derive from the root for "bottom, foundation" (cf. Ir. domun, O.C.S. duno, related to Eng. deep); the Lith. word is pasaulis, from pa- "under" + saule "sun." Original sense in world without end, translating L. sæcula sæculorum, and in worldly (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worldly). L. sæculum can mean both "age" and "world," as can Gk. aion. Worldwide is from 1632. World power in the geopolitical sense first recorded 1900. World-class is attested from 1950, originally of Olympic athletes.

<CITE>Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper</CITE>[!] end etymon [/!][!] begin wn [/!]<CITE>WordNet</CITE> (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/wn.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=world&ia=wn) world
adjective1. involving the entire earth; not limited or provincial in scope; "global war"; "global monetary policy"; "neither national nor continental but planetary"; "a world crisis"; "of worldwide significance" [syn: global (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/global)]
noun1. everything that exists anywhere; "they study the evolution of the universe"; "the biggest tree in existence" [syn: universe (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/universe)] 2. people in general; especially a distinctive group of people with some shared interest; "the Western world" 3. all of your experiences that determine how things appear to you; "his world was shattered"; "we live in different worlds"; "for them demons were as much a part of reality as trees were" 4. the 3rd planet from the sun; the planet we live on; "the Earth moves around the sun"; "he sailed around the world" [syn: Earth (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Earth)] 5. people in general considered as a whole; "he is a hero in the eyes of the public" [syn: populace (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/populace)] 6. a part of the earth that can be considered separately; "the outdoor world"; "the world of insects" 7. the concerns of this life as distinguished from heaven and the afterlife; "they consider the church to be independent of the world" [syn: worldly concern (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worldly%20concern)] 8. all of the living human inhabitants of the earth; "all the world loves a lover"; "she always used 'humankind' because 'mankind' seemed to slight the women"

[The Crystal]

Forsaken, you say that the last Scan is a plot-hole that have to be ignored. But it cannot be.
First, because it don't contradict the others. If she absorb all existence she would change the world. This is NOT a contradiction, make sense with everything stated in the game, and make ALL scans valid.
Second, let's assume it's a plot-hole. It's still canon. We can assume that Ultimecia changed her mind, and decided to affect all the universe(instead of just the world), or give another explanation. The FACT is that she was absorbing all existence, as explained in the game. NOT the world, but "all existence". If existence = world, they would say "the world".

You cannot choose what is canon and what isn't or what you can ignore and cannot, because you don't work for Square-Enix and didn't create the game.

All the scans complement each other. You cannot ignore one of them, just because it goes against your argument.

And Jammi, thankyou for proving me right.

EDIT: Forsaken, if you want to answer anything i said here, lets talk about it in the "Ultimecia" thread. Its ridiculous to argue about the same thing in two diferent threads(the third one was closed lol).

[Dr. Acula]

Oh will both of you shut up? You aren't contributing anything to the thread, you're just bickering.

"You don't undrestaaaand the plot stupid fanboi"

"Youre the fanboi! I understand it, youuuuuuu don't!"

"STUPIDHEAD, you're being STUPID, you STUPID FANBOI"

"Stupid Kuja fanboi, bleeeeh!"

"You're sooooo stupid, you fanboi."

"Cutting sarcasm"

"More cutting sarcasm"

"Superiority"


Come now children. Have some cookies and play nicely.

:cookie: :cookie:

I agree, but I kinda hope they don't stop. We haven't had a good debate in a long time. (I look forward to reading the Ultimecia thread!:D )

[jammi567]

Agreed! This is just soo funny to watch. I remember this other debate where this (now banned) member said to click your fingers, and everything will make sense. That (and that debate) was the funniest thing i read, and this is on equal level.

[ragnosica]

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD?!!!!!!!!:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[NeoCracker]

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD?!!!!!!!!:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
That way another thread can pop up on this subject and start the debate over from the beginning.

[jammi567]

Surely not if it's stickied, as an example of what these kind of threads end up being.

[Crizpy]

First thread I've ever made on these forums, and its over 4 pages with tasty drama already. Does that make me a God?

*grabs some popcorn*

Carry on!:choc2:

[jammi567]

....pretty much, yeah! *Grabs some popcorn off Crizpy*

[ragnosica]

count me in...*grabs his own popcorn and a cold towel and raps it around his head*

[Crizpy]

I got beer for everyone!

And coke for the underaged :D