What is the point?

[JAS4Yeshua]

Seriously. What is the point of having optional bosses/quests that are more powerful than the end boss? This, of course, isn't limited to Final Fantasy XII, it exists in most of the series. I'm posting it in this forum because that is what I recently played (and am playing again).

The last go around of the game I had (which was my first), I did most of the hunts and some of the optional bosses and fights. Even at level 71, my characters still couldn't beat some of the optional bosses and hunts. The Behemoth King literally wiped the floor with my characters. But, because I did so many of the optional battles, the end battle wasn't much of a challenge, and when it was over, the game is over, and you can't go back to those optional bosses to defeat them.

As I started the game over with the intent of trying to hit all the optional bosses before the end of the game, I'm leaving myself wondering why I'm even bothering with it. What is the point? Yeah, the game is fun, but I'm thinking it might start getting tedious when I hit 100+ hours (maybe even sooner).

[Slothy]

and when it was over, the game is over, and you can't go back to those optional bosses to defeat them.

What are you talking about? You can always go back to an earlier save. Heck, there aren't even any save points in the final area in FFXII so you can't save after the point of no return.

Anyway, the point of the optional bosses is so that those who want more of a challenge and more play time from their game can take them on. If you got all the fun you want out of just beating it, then just beat it and ignore the extra content. Those who just want to beat the game don't want to jump through all the hoops and level up to 99 just to do it, whereas those who want more of a challenge want to fight bosses that can be tough even at rediculously high levels.

[JAS4Yeshua]

I'm aware of the earlier save point, but there were some things I missed along the way, which is why I restarted. ;)

I do have a save point in Rabanastre, right before I went to the Bahamut, so I could always go back to that if I wanted. (I'm not overwriting it). I don't mind the added challenge, but when you finally get to the end, after doing all the optional bosses, the end poses no challenge at all. That is what I'm referring to. It is one thing to make more challenging bosses before the end, but to have as many as FFXII seems to have, you become so ridiculously overpowered that the end boss is no longer a challenge.

That is the focus of my post. ;)

[Shattered Dreamer]

This is probably the only problem I have ever had with the Final Fantasy series. Final Boss should mean hardest & most challenging boss in the game in my opinion, in the FF series it just means this boss must be defeated to see the ending.

[Necronopticous]

The purpose of the optional bosses that are much harder than the final story boss is so that hardcore fans have a reason to grind to the max level and pursue the ultimate equipment and magic in the game. Before bosses like this there wasn't really any drive other than the satisfaction of maxing out your game. Square-Enix is doing a service to hardcore players by putting ridiculously hard bosses external to the story in there so that once you've done everything the game has to offer, you can take on the optional boss as a sort of closure to your adventure in the game. In a way, these bosses are sort of seen as the final boss by those willing to go all the way through with the game.

If the final story boss was as hard as the last optional bosses Final Fantasy wouldn't have the kind of following that it has because casual players would never beat the game. It's as simple as that, if you're more of a casual player and you're in it for the story, don't worry about the optional bosses. If you want to spend more time in the world the game provides you and pursue greater ends, max out and fight them.

I think the additional content that caters to the hardcore fan base is extremely respectable, and a highlight of the massive scope of a Final Fantasy game.

Moved -> General Final Fantasy

[Crizpy]

No, this is working as intended.

Not everyone wants to invest a sick amount of hours into various games to keep leveling their chars to level..99, then do all the sidequests and read guides how to find the most powerfull weapon in the game etc etc.
Face it, some of these things are impossible to find out unless you read some strategy guide made by Square. Like Exhalibur (typo?) 2 in FFIX. Impossible to guess.

The optional bosses are supposed to be harder, so people who have a greater interest in this game, and want to do as much as possible, can have a proper challange, while those who just want to play a few hours now and then, follow the story, and find out what happens in the end should'nt have to work their asses off.

I really fail to see whats wrong here.

[PuPu]

You can half the damage of Behemoth King's Firaga and Ardor with Flame Shields, Blizzaga and White Breath with Ice Shields, nullify Thundaga with Rubber Suits, absorb Holy with White Mask or Sage Ring, and absorb Darkga with Demon Shields or Black Mask. You can also use buffs like Protect, Haste, and Bubble and you should win against him. With this strategy, I did it at level 50.

Anyways, you should always just play through the game and beat the final boss before you fight optional bosses. Vayne is A LOT TOUGHER at level 45 than level 60+ for example. But the reason that the final boss can't be harder than say, Yiazmat is because then it would be too hard. Not all people might have to patience or willingness to actually level up and beat optional bosses, since they just want to beat the game, so they can't make the final boss ridiculously hard.

I would prefer the final boss to be the toughest though.

[demondude]

sometimes people don't have much time to play the game so they do the main quest and leave out the hard parts

[JAS4Yeshua]

I don't think it is a problem, just asking the point. There is something in between a casual player and a hard-core gamer as well, as I would fall in between. For me the gameplay and side quests are just as important as the story.

I like how FFXII combined the hunts and side quests into the main story. They were still optional, of course, but they seemed a little more integrated. It might be because of the more open game play compared to others in the series.

I'm not against having tougher optional bosses, I'm just talking about the disparity between the difficulties. Having optional bosses so much more powerful than the end boss. I still think there can be a balance that both the casual and hardcore would still find acceptable.

[Shattered Dreamer]

if you're more of a casual player and you're in it for the story, don't worry about the optional bosses.

I think the additional content that caters to the hardcore fan base is extremely respectable, and a highlight of the massive scope of a Final Fantasy game.

I don't think you can describe gamers who play rpg's are casual gamers. People who play rpg's like the FF series enjoy playing for long hours each time they play.(I'm not say people who play the FF series are people with no life by the way, I played FFXII 3 time weekly over 2 months for example).

I personally would describe casual gamers for example as people who play Wii in large groups. FF series players are a class of their own in my opinion.

[Renmiri]

I am ok with the fact that the Final Boss is a pushover if you do too many sidequests.

But I would have loved a New Game + on XII, like X-2 had. Imagine going through the dungeons with rubber suits and bubble belts. Buahahah!

[JAS4Yeshua]

New Game + ? I am assuming it meant you can carry items from a previous game into a new game. I had done something similar to that in another game series I had (Baldur's Gate), and that was fun. hehe ;)

[Necronopticous]

I don't think you can describe gamers who play rpg's are casual gamers.There is a very distinguishable line between those those who play rpgs, and those who play to master rpgs.

There is no reason a casual gamer can't enjoy an RPG just because it is a game with an inherently long average play time. I know plenty of casual gamers who have played and beaten a couple of good RPGs.

People who only play Wii in large groups when the group happens to play Wii aren't casual gamers, they're just human beings.

If all of my friends were throwing tennis balls at each other I'd probably join in. I wouldn't necessarily label myself as any kind of tennis ball thrower after the fact.

[Shattered Dreamer]

You make a good point there Necronopticous but to me the term casual gamer means someone who wouldn't always play game but would play them from time to time & I find if you to play an rpg in such a matter you'd get bored. A casual gamer by definition in my opinion would play more pick up and play type games. But at the same time I see where you are coming from.:choc2:

[Bolivar]

I like having the optional challenges in the series, there's still some I haven't got to just yet, I guess that's what adds alot of replay value to me.

But I have to agree with you - it got very redundant in XII. The final boss was way too easy considering all the later marks.

[Slothy]

I don't mind the added challenge, but when you finally get to the end, after doing all the optional bosses, the end poses no challenge at all. That is what I'm referring to. It is one thing to make more challenging bosses before the end, but to have as many as FFXII seems to have, you become so ridiculously overpowered that the end boss is no longer a challenge.

Have you ever considered beating the final boss before doing a lot of the optional bosses? By simple virtue of the fact that they're optional and can be done at any time you can always wait. I never beat all the optional bosses before finishing the story, usually because they're harder than the final boss, and I'd rather finish the story as soon as I can.This means I get a fairly challenging final boss (as challenging as I can expect from an FF anyway), and still go and fight optional bosses if I choose to after the fact.

[JAS4Yeshua]

FFXII was the first one where I didn't do that. It wasn't necessarily purposeful, either. I was doing side quests in order to increase strength as I went along, not to become overpowered, but to try to keep a balance. It didn't quite work out that way becuase of how integrated the side quests were to the game play, which was a bit different from other games in the series.

[Shattered Dreamer]

Have you ever considered beating the final boss before doing a lot of the optional bosses? By simple virtue of the fact that they're optional and can be done at any time you can always wait. I never beat all the optional bosses before finishing the story, usually because they're harder than the final boss, and I'd rather finish the story as soon as I can.This means I get a fairly challenging final boss (as challenging as I can expect from an FF anyway), and still go and fight optional bosses if I choose to after the fact.

Thats exactly what I did. Curiosity got the better of me so I went to the Bahamut & in doing so kicked Vayne's a$$. I really do hope the optional bosses are a decent bit harder than the Undying I really do.

[Mercen-X]

It's in cases like these that Final Fantasy should follow the .hack format. Putting uber-hard non-story bosses and sidequests and the END OF THE DAMN GAME!!!!!!!! (after the credits)

There. It solves everything.

[JAS4Yeshua]

I can definately agree with that concept. ;)

[Slothy]

It's in cases like these that Final Fantasy should follow the .hack format. Putting uber-hard non-story bosses and sidequests and the END OF THE DAMN GAME!!!!!!!! (after the credits)

There. It solves everything.

Some people like doing some sidequests as a diversion from the main story every now and then though.

[Serapy]

Ok, if the 'last boss' was very very very hard then people will have to spend more time leveling and such in order to beat the last boss. I would like that to happen but the problem is that not all people like us don't want to spend thier times on leveling for a longer time, that's why they made the last boss easier and added optional bosses (which are harder than the last boss) to FF games that are not necessairily needed to beat the game. Just my opinion :P