Final Fantasy Villains - Most Powerful

[Forsaken Lover]

My Top 3.

1. Kuja-
1. Withstood a blast from Bahamut with nothing more than a small cut.
2. Survived a shot from the Invincible.
3. Knew a spell to make people sleep.
4. Could lift objects with magic.
5. Has the ability to make Black Mages and Mistodons from Mist.
6. When going into Trance, easily destroyed the entire party with one attack.
7. Destroyed Terra.
8. Managed to cross back from Terra to Gaia where he made the iifa Tree rip up its roots.
9. Either a) created Memoria as a passageway to the Crystal or b) managed to cross dimensions again from Gaia to the Crystal.
10. "Killed" the party?
11. "Revived" the party?

Kuja's final Ultima hits the party and next thing we know they're before the "final dimension" with their bodies strewn everywhere. Kuja then "helps" by transporting them all away from the exploding Necron.

3. God Kefka

3. Neo Ex-death

Sorry. I haven't played the games really. I just got the general idea from dialogue I've read and scenes I've heard about.

[jammi567]

Definatly Kefka, because he actually completed one of his plans to be evil. I also think that Ultimecia should be up there, as she so nearly managed to complete her goal of paradoxial time compression, and would have done it too if it wasn't for those pesky SeeD's.

[PuPu]

God Kefka had the power of the statues, which is all the magic in the universe of FF6 (with the exception of the Espers). Hell, even regular Kefka could kill 8 Espers at once.

Kuja managed to take a hit from Bahamut with barely a scratch. When he got the power of Trance, he was able to cause a lot of damage to Terra (he probably didn't destroy it completely; maybe it was similar to Lavos in Chrono Trigger). And he was able to kill the party by putting nearly all of his energy into one final Ultima.

Neo X-Death had to power of the Void, the greatest power in FF5 (except for maybe the crystals). He was able to easily destroy towns and villages with the Void, and in the final battle, he said he could destroy all existence and during his Grand Cross attack, it showed a message saying something like "the universe is in peril."

[Bolivar]

Garland would knock all of them down!

[The Crystal]

Ultimecia was absorbing the entire universe, in her final form. With exception of Neo Ex-Death, no villain come close to her power.

And to everyone saying "Kuja", or "Kefka", or etc. Please, remember this is not a popularity contest. You have to prove that Kefka or Kuja have more power than Neo Ex-Death or Final Ultimecia. Good luck trying to do that.

[NeoCracker]

Ultimecia was absorbing the entire universe, in her final form. With exception of Neo Ex-Death, no villain come close to her power.

And to everyone saying "Kuja", or "Kefka", or etc. Please, remember this is not a popularity contest. You have to prove that Kefka or Kuja have more power than Neo Ex-Death or Final Ultimecia. Good luck trying to do that.

In terms of who has the most amazing power, Ultimetica and neo-exdeath win. Though when I think powerful, I think who would win in a fight.

In Ultimecia's case, I don't think you get enough story relevance to determine that. Neo-exdeath, however, does.

Exdeath seems pretty scary, though not on par with Kuja or Kefka in a fight.

Ultimecia is only most powerful if you take into the consideration of the Magnitude of her ability, which no other FF villian can compete with.

I just so happen to define most powerful in these debates as fighting power, which really absorbing the universe has nothing to do with.

[Forsaken Lover]

I can prove Kuja > Neo Exdeath easily.

Kuja destroyed a planet.

Exdeath and the Void never did that.

Nothing says they could either.

So, Kuja > him in power.

As for Ultimecia...that scan makes no sense. She is mixing past, present and future together through Time Compression. No one ever says she is absorbing anything. And also thery never say universe or existence in any of the dialogue. They just say "world" ie. the planet. No one brings up the universe or all of existence at all. Just their world.

And if we're talking fights...Ultimecia dies hard.

[The Crystal]

I can prove Kuja > Neo Exdeath easily.

Kuja destroyed a planet.

Exdeath and the Void never did that.

Nothing says they could either.

So, Kuja > him in power.

In the final battle they say.


As for Ultimecia...that scan makes no sense. She is mixing past, present and future together through Time Compression. No one ever says she is absorbing anything. And also thery never say universe or existence in any of the dialogue. They just say "world" ie. the planet. No one brings up the universe or all of existence at all. Just their world.

If you want to ignore evidence presented in the game, fine. I can do the same thing. Kuja never destroyed a planet.


And if we're talking fights...Ultimecia dies hard.

Ultimecia absorb Kuja, Kefka, Sephiroth, etc. with all the rest of the universe.

[Bolivar]

I can prove Kuja > Neo Exdeath easily.

Kuja destroyed a planet.

Exdeath and the Void never did that.

Nothing says they could either.

So, Kuja > him in power.

In the final battle they say.


As for Ultimecia...that scan makes no sense. She is mixing past, present and future together through Time Compression. No one ever says she is absorbing anything. And also thery never say universe or existence in any of the dialogue. They just say "world" ie. the planet. No one brings up the universe or all of existence at all. Just their world.

If you want to ignore evidence presented in the game, fine. I can do the same thing. Kuja never destroyed a planet.


And if we're talking fights...Ultimecia dies hard.

Ultimecia absorb Kuja, Kefka, Sephiroth, etc. with all the rest of the universe.

And then Garland knocks that b**** down!

[Elpizo]

Ultimecia absorb Kuja, Kefka, Sephiroth, etc. with all the rest of the universe.
Like she absorbed Squall, Rinoa, Irvine, Zell, Quistis and Selphie, right?

[The Crystal]

Like she absorbed Squall, Rinoa, Irvine, Zell, Quistis and Selphie, right?

Don't use this argument please, it will not work.
Plot-protection(heros allways win in the end) >> Ultimecia. This is why she(and the other villains) lost.
You can try to find why she lost: She underestimated SeeD, and didn't fought seriouslly? She subconsciously wanted to lose? Exist many theories about it. Or you could believe that SeeD was more powerful than her, meaning that they are more powerful than a being absorbing all existence. That make them gods, and the most powerful heros in FF series.

But it doesn't matter. Ultimecia was absorbing the universe. This is what we call "a fact". Because of that, she IS more powerful than Kuja and Kefka, and if they don't have plot-protection(making her underestimate them, or wanting to lose in her sbconscious, or whatever...), they would be absorbed by her.

To people like Neo Ex-Death and Final Ultimecia, destroying a planet is a joke.

[Elpizo]

If heroes that can't scratch a planet or can't absorb time itself can fight against a time-absorbing being, so can crazy clowns, mother loving grey-haired dudes, planet-hurting maniacs and void-itself-beings.

Ultimecia absorbed time itself in the end. Incredible. Kuja killed the good guys with his final Ultima. Also incredible. Kefka actually WON, at least for one year. That's incredible as well.

Absorbing time was nice for making her the only existing being, immortal forever in a void. Wonder what's so great about that. Wodner what she owuld do with her 'absorbed time'. Nothing, for there's nothing left. Be it as it may, I found her 'time absorbing' not really dangerous. I mean, if everything is gone except for her, what's wrong with it? She's useless then, anyway. Ultimecia's time absorbing left her with literally nothing. Except immortality, in a mad-making nothingness.

[f f freak]

I'm not too sure on the most powerful villian but...

@The Crystal, Your whole plot protection thing doesn't work when it comes to Kuja. Kuja defeated the party using Ultima and then the team went to Hill of Despair where they got revived or whatever.
Also about Ultimecia absorbing time and just absorbing the other villians Neo X-Death could just send her to the Void. (X-Death is the one with the power over the Void right?) So Ultimecia would not be able to absorb time.

It all really depends on who gets the first hit in.

[TyphoonThaReapa]

I didn't want to get in this, but they are some :screwy: people here. First of all, destroying a planet, killing a few people and creating a giant meteor is child's play compare to time compression. You guys seem to be underestimating that power. Think about it for a sec before you open your mouth.

Ultimecia has the power to not only combine time and space (Past, Present, and Future), she also has the ability to absorb not only the UNIVERSE but also ALL OF EXISTENCE.

Plot Protection does apply to FF8. Frankly, I'm surprise Squall and he's team was ability to make it to her final form. In her Ultimecia + Gravier form (Third Form), Her best attack was moving THREE PLANETS AND A ASTEROID!!!!! If that's not the most powerful thing in the entire series yet, then I suggest you guys play the entire series again....:cool:

[Elpizo]

Necron's Grand Cross moved not three but FOUR planets and included a FIFTH one... Neo Exdeath's Grand Cross sent the universe into peril...

Time Compression may be a nice thing to pull of, but in the end it's effects are not harming. Everything is gone, so none can suffer from it's effects. Bit different like, when Kefka terorizes the planet for a year, or Kuja setting the whole surface of Terra on fire. Or even Sephiroth's meteor could have been devasting if it had landed.

Time compression? Seemed to go painlessly for everybody to me. And again, what did Ultimecia gain with it? Prisoned with immortality as the sole living being in a nothingness. At least Neo Exdeath wanted to die together with the world... I guess I shouldn't ask for the results of destroy-all-attitude. Especially when it it's obtained for once, even if only for one, weak form that's only able to do 2 attacks... Of which one can never be deadly. Nothingness doesn't make sense when it's not executed by a pop-out-of-nowhere boss. Unless Ultimecia was insane, of course.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, not many FF Final-Bosses make good sense. =/

[TyphoonThaReapa]

When did you hear in the story that Ultimecia cared about the fact that she would exist in nothingness? A'yo, if she absorbs ALL OF EXISTENCE, what do you think happens? SHE BECOMES EXISTENCE!!! Which means everything will be her and she would be everything. COMPLETE CONTROL OF EVERYTHING!!!! Do you get it now?:rolleyes2

[The Crystal]

If heroes that can't scratch a planet or can't absorb time itself can fight against a time-absorbing being, so can crazy clowns, mother loving grey-haired dudes, planet-hurting maniacs and void-itself-beings.

Ultimecia absorbed time itself in the end. Incredible. Kuja killed the good guys with his final Ultima. Also incredible. Kefka actually WON, at least for one year. That's incredible as well.

Absorbing time was nice for making her the only existing being, immortal forever in a void. Wonder what's so great about that. Wodner what she owuld do with her 'absorbed time'. Nothing, for there's nothing left. Be it as it may, I found her 'time absorbing' not really dangerous. I mean, if everything is gone except for her, what's wrong with it? She's useless then, anyway. Ultimecia's time absorbing left her with literally nothing. Except immortality, in a mad-making nothingness.

Ultimecia was ABSORBING all existence. She was GAINING POWER of the universe itself. After absorbing everything she would be GOD.

And the logic is very simple on that:
All existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a single planet.

So...

Destroying/absorbing existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroying a planet

And what that tell us?

Ultimecia and Ex-Death's power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kuja and Kefka's power.

Doesn't matter how much you love Kefka and Kuja, they are weaker than Ultimecia and Ex-Death.

[Forsaken Lover]

Since no one ever says universe and in fact all dialogue and mentioning of what happens only refer to worldly effects, I'm not gonna ASSume it was universal. There's NOTHING to back that up. At all.



Plot Protection does apply to FF8. Frankly, I'm surprise Squall and he's team was ability to make it to her final form. In her Ultimecia + Gravier form (Third Form), Her best attack was moving THREE PLANETS AND A ASTEROID!!!!! If that's not the most powerful thing in the entire series yet, then I suggest you guys play the entire series again...

About as canon and real as Seph's "Super Nova."

Kuja = destroyed a planet in short order.

Ultamecia = mixed together the past, present and future of a world (only scope ever mentioned specifically) and still failed even thanks to her Plot Device Elione helping.


Ultimecia was ABSORBING all existence. She was GAINING POWER of the universe itself. After absorbing everything she would be GOD.

As stated NUMEROUS times, she was mixing together the past, preset and future of the world. And she was still beaten by some kids. You say I'm ignoring things? You're rationalizing them beating her. They beat her. End of story.

And your line CONTRADICTS every bit of dialogue.


And the logic is very simple on that:
All existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a single planet.

Since they only ever mention the world, that's all it did.


Ultimecia and Ex-Death's power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kuja and Kefka's power.

Not really.

Ultamecia <<<<<<<< Kuja and Kefka for compressing time on a planet.


Doesn't matter how much you love Kefka and Kuja, they are weaker than Ultimecia and Ex-Death.

Since Ultimecia can't absorb people instantly as shown, Kuja blows her to Hell with an Ultima.

[TyphoonThaReapa]

Since no one ever says universe and in fact all dialogue and mentioning of what happens only refer to worldly effects, I'm not gonna ASSume it was universal. There's NOTHING to back that up. At all.



Plot Protection does apply to FF8. Frankly, I'm surprise Squall and he's team was ability to make it to her final form. In her Ultimecia + Gravier form (Third Form), Her best attack was moving THREE PLANETS AND A ASTEROID!!!!! If that's not the most powerful thing in the entire series yet, then I suggest you guys play the entire series again...About as canon and real as Seph's "Super Nova."

Kuja = destroyed a planet in short order.

Ultamecia = mixed together the past, present and future of a world (only scope ever mentioned specifically) and still failed even thanks to her Plot Device Elione helping.


I think you are jealous that Kuja is weaker than Ultimecia. Don't get me wrong though. I my be a big FF8 fan, but Ultimecia is NOT my favorite villain. BUT, her power is undeniable. Did I forget to mention the fact that Ultimecia absorbs a fainted party member in battle? YouTube - Final Fantasy VIII - Final Boss, Low Level, Part 2/2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=QyEnHZpRNXA&mode=related&search)

[The Crystal]

Since no one ever says universe and in fact all dialogue and mentioning of what happens only refer to worldly effects, I'm not gonna ASSume it was universal. There's NOTHING to back that up. At all.


Ultimecia, transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all existence as we speak.


About as canon and real as Seph's "Super Nova."

Truth that.


Kuja = destroyed a planet in short order.

Ultimecia = was absorbing all existence.
And again:


And the logic is very simple on that:
All existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a single planet.

So...

Destroying/absorbing existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroying a planet

And what that tell us?

Ultimecia and Ex-Death's power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kuja and Kefka's power.

[Forsaken Lover]

Squall: Time Compression. It's time magic. Past, present, and future get compressed. What's going to happen to the world? Why do something like that?

Rinoa: Ultimecia, a sorceress
from the future. She's trying to achieve time compression. She's the only one who would be able to exist in such a world.

Also look at what Odine says
“ Rinoa will come back to this world. Ultimecia also goes back to her own world.”

So world could also equal timeline.

Anyway, look at what Odine says
“Vat would be left is ze time compressed world.
Past, present future will all get mixed together. You will keep moving through ze time compression toward ze future. Once you're out of ze
time compression, zat will be Ultimecia's world. It's all up to you after zat.”


Since Ultimecia is not absorbing jack and is only cramming timelines on a planet together, they can easily move through time compression to the future. They aren’t absorbed. No one is.


I think you are jealous that Kuja is weaker than Ultimecia. Don't get me wrong though. I my be a big FF8 fan, but Ultimecia is NOT my favorite villain. BUT, her power is undeniable. Did I forget to mention the fact that Ultimecia absorbs a fainted party member in battle? YouTube - Final Fantasy VIII - Final Boss, Low Level, Part 2/2

From what I remember it just says something like "absorbed in time..." Correct?

[TyphoonThaReapa]

Frankly, Ultimecia's Power is amazing. Think about it. SquareEnix exaggerated big time with Time Compression. You see, every single micro second in time itself hold a different part existence including everything which exist. Which means, between the past, present, and future there is a infinite amount of everything. Combining all of that would be suicidal due to the infinite amount of mass all in one. When Ultimecia accomplished Time Compression, she and everything else should have been obliterated...or maybe I'm just thinking too out of the box...:rolleyes2

Edit: Actually, she's absorbing existence during the last fight. When Squall and the other was traveling through time compression, She wasn't absorbing existence...And yes it did say that when you scanned her...:cool:

[The Crystal]

Squall: Time Compression. It's time magic. Past, present, and future get compressed. What's going to happen to the world? Why do something like that?

Rinoa: Ultimecia, a sorceress
from the future. She's trying to achieve time compression. She's the only one who would be able to exist in such a world.

Also look at what Odine says
“ Rinoa will come back to this world. Ultimecia also goes back to her own world.”

So world could also equal timeline.

Anyway, look at what Odine says
“Vat would be left is ze time compressed world.
Past, present future will all get mixed together. You will keep moving through ze time compression toward ze future. Once you're out of ze
time compression, zat will be Ultimecia's world. It's all up to you after zat.”


Since Ultimecia is not absorbing jack and is only cramming timelines on a planet together, they can easily move through time compression to the future. They aren’t absorbed. No one is.

They are talking about Time Compression. I'm talking about Ultimecia in her final form.

And time and space are everywhere, not just the planet. Hell, in her final form, you fight in space(not the planet) and you can see the stars being absorbed by her.


Originally Bespoken by Using Scan in the upper body of her final form:
Ultimecia, transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all existence as we speak.

All existence. Not the planet, not the world, but the entire existence, the entire universe.

[Forsaken Lover]

All Ultimecia is trying to do is achieve Time Compression. She, nor anyone else mentions anything about absorbing anything. Explain that scan and how it contradicts THE ENTIRE PLOT.

And you're not actually fighting in space. It's like the fight with Sephiroth. You're being being transported around to various locations but all we can tell is that they are simply nifty backdrops for the battles. Unless you can prove they're actually there? I didn't know Squall could breathe in space.............................

And Kuja blows Ultimecia to pieces with one Ultima because she can't absorb anything unless it's KO'ed. Plus she has no accounts of her durability. So one Ultima should do it.

[Vivisteiner]

The simple fact is that Ultimecia never becomes a God-like figure. In the end, she never succeeded at all, apart from Time Compression - which wasnt as devastating as destroying a planet.

Dont talk about what would have happened. Talk about what did happen. In those terms, Kefka and Kuja were more destructive.

I think. But Im no expert.

[The Crystal]

All Ultimecia is trying to do is achieve Time Compression. She, nor anyone else mentions anything about absorbing anything. Explain that scan and how it contradicts THE ENTIRE PLOT.

During the entire plot, they were talking about Time Compression. That Scan was talking about Ultimecia's power. TC and Ultimecia aren't the same thing.


And you're not actually fighting in space. It's like the fight with Sephiroth. You're being being transported around to various locations but all we can tell is that they are simply nifty backdrops for the battles. Unless you can prove they're actually there? I didn't know Squall could breathe in space.............................

They weren't being transported around to various locations, what the hell are you talking about? We can see the stars, and Ultimecia absorbing them. They are in space. many FF final bosses are in space, this is nothing new.


And Kuja blows Ultimecia to pieces with one Ultima because she can't absorb anything unless it's KO'ed. Plus she has no accounts of her durability. So one Ultima should do it.

Your word against the word of Square-Enix.

[jammi567]

And you're not actually fighting in space. It's like the fight with Sephiroth. You're being being transported around to various locations but all we can tell is that they are simply nifty backdrops for the battles. Unless you can prove they're actually there? I didn't know Squall could breathe in space.............................

They weren't being transported around to various locations, what the hell are you talking about? We can see the stars, and Ultimecia absorbing them. They are in space. many FF final bosses are in space, this is nothing new.
I think they mean when you're travelling to her time period, when you have to fight all those witches.

[TyphoonThaReapa]

And you're not actually fighting in space. It's like the fight with Sephiroth. You're being being transported around to various locations but all we can tell is that they are simply nifty backdrops for the battles. Unless you can prove they're actually there? I didn't know Squall could breathe in space.............................They weren't being transported around to various locations, what the hell are you talking about? We can see the stars, and Ultimecia absorbing them. They are in space. many FF final bosses are in space, this is nothing new. I think they mean when you're travelling to her time period, when you have to fight all those witches.

Whatever the case, that has nothing to do with Ultimecia's power (Absorbing Existence.) Tell me what better. Destroying a world or two, or controlling everything in existence. It matters not what they accomplished. What Their capable of is what this thread is about.

[Forsaken Lover]

They weren't being transported around to various locations, what the hell are you talking about? We can see the stars, and Ultimecia absorbing them. They are in space. many FF final bosses are in space, this is nothing new.

Uh, yeah they were.

Fight starts off with her in her castle. Does the fight with Griever and then her final form look like the same place?

They were moved around.

That’s a funny thing too. She just summons Griever, he pops up and the backdrop changes.


During the entire plot, they were talking about Time Compression. That Scan was talking about Ultimecia's power. TC and Ultimecia aren't the same thing.

But she’s NOT absorbing existence. That is NEVER mentioned. Not by her. Not by ANYONE.

She wants time Compression. Not to absorb existence. It contradicts EVERYTHING in the game including what Ultimecia HERSELF says.



Your word against the word of Square-Enix.

Not really.

*looks at the fight*

OH LOOK!!!

They only get absorbed WHEN THEY’RE KO’ED!

Not anything else is absorbed.

So, Kuja blows her to Hell.

This is such a ridiculous argument. You're using a quote that :skull::skull::skull::skull:s in the face of everything in the game.


To make it clear Kuja is more powerful than Seph, it's necessary to show just how pathetic Sephirothw ould be even if he had completed his goals.

If he had, he would have been the "god" of the Planet. He would control it.

Ya know what Kuja can do? Destroy planets!

So, goodbye "god" Sephiroth.

So, even if he did manage to achieve his ends, he'd STIL die to Kuja.

[Ashley Schovitz]

Why is no one mentioning Vayne,Seymour, or Zeromus?

[The Crystal]

Why is no one mentioning Vayne,Seymour, or Zeromus?

Because the most powerful villains are Ex-Death and Ultimecia. The other villains don't need to be mentioned, really. It's obvious to anyone that these two villains are in the level of endangering the existence of the universe itself(using their own power). Don't exist any other FF villain that come close to them.

Now, it would be very interesting to try to find out who of them is the most powerful. Ex-Death or Ultimecia?

And Forsaken Lover, you can ignore the evidence presented in FFVIII if you want. I don't care. It seems that when you created this thread, you didn't want to know other people's opinions. You just wanted to show everyone, how your loveable Kuja is awesome. Unfortunately for you, it didn't work.

[PuPu]

It matters not what they accomplished. What Their capable of is what this thread is about.
Everything matters on what they have accomplished. They could have all been capable of doing more under certain conditions. But they are not given the conditions on what they would have liked, so wouldn't we look at what they were able to do? A person being capable of doing something doesn't matter at all if they didn't do it.


ignore the evidence presented in FFVIII
You mean the one sentence of scan information?

Also, I do think Zeromus should get mentioned. Zeromus was after all, the epitome of Zemus' hate and he was "invincible." What I mean is, the party was unable to hurt him and he was also able to take down the party, like Kuja (Though they were revived by their friends). But somehow, by Cecil using The Crystal (no, not the person who posted on this thread :p) he was weakened.

[The Crystal]

A person being capable of doing something doesn't matter at all if they didn't do it.

Why? We are talking about the power of the villains. If a villain didn't have the chance to do something in the story, but we are 100% sure the villain has the power to do it, why we have to ignore this power?


You mean the one sentence of scan information?

Yes.


Also, I do think Zeromus should get mentioned. Zeromus was after all, the epitome of Zemus' hate and he was "invincible." What I mean is, the party was unable to hurt him and he was also able to take down the party, like Kuja (Though they were revived by their friends). But somehow, by Cecil using The Crystal (no, not the person who posted on this thread :p) he was weakened.

Zeromus cannot be hurt by evil right? In that case, the FF villains cannot kill him. But that don't make him the strongest. If he don't have the power to kill them, he cannot be considered the most powerful, he would be just a punch-bag to them.
And Ex-Death don't need to kill him. Send him to the Void is enough to win. The same with Ultimecia. Absorb him, and she wins(AND gain his powers, because he would be part of her).

[Forsaken Lover]

Sad she can't absorb anyone unless they're KO'ed as SPECIFICALLY showed in the battle with her.

If you want to maintain she can absorb Kuja or Zeromus, PROVE IT. Show me ONE PERSON SHE ABSORBED.

No one? Then get lost.



If you want to believe a piece of crap line that contradicts everything in the game, fine.

In the end, Kuja blows her away with one Ultima since, going by actual PROOF, she is horribly weak and nothing suggests she could survive this attack.

Kuja did more than she did in terms of destruction and durability.

[NeoCracker]

Okay, first off "Plot Protection" is a horrible argument. If a story is so weak "Plot Protection" is your only argument as to how the heroes can possibly win, I have no Idea how you can enjoy the games story.

Also, you say you watch her absorbing the Stars. If she could absorb all instantly as you seem to claim, why can you see any stars getting absorbed at all? They should all be gone in a moment.

Finally, given the fact that the heroes were able to fight her at all, means that she can't absorb all time in an instant. Meaning there is a period of battle there her ability does her no good at all. Not even a little bit. Even Neo-Exdeath suffered from this same problem. Neither can make use of that ability if someone appears before them to fight.

Others, like Kuja and Kefka, use their full power at will.

[The Crystal]

Okay, first off "Plot Protection" is a horrible argument. If a story is so weak "Plot Protection" is your only argument as to how the heroes can possibly win, I have no Idea how you can enjoy the games story.

"Plot Protection" is what make the main character(s) win, in MANY works of fiction. A villain being incredible powerful, but not using his power because of arrogance, and giving the oportunity to the heros defeat him/her because of that, is an example of "Plot Protection". Make the villain arrogant to be defeated by the heros(that are weaker than him/her), is the Plot making the heros win. But it doesn't mean the main characters are more powerful than the villain. Making the villain subconsciously wanting to lose, is another example of "Plot Protection" to the heros. And many more...
The main characters ALLWAYS win, no mater what.
This is why i say, that the best way to judge the power of a villain, is by his/her feats in the story, not the heros that defeated him/her. Because they will always win, they are the main characters after all.

The fact is: SeeD DONT have more power than her. They CANNOT absorb the friggin universe. They cannot absorb planets, solar systems, stars, galaxys, TIME AND SPACE itself, etc. They never showed this level of power, and they cannot do that.
"Plot Protection" is the only explanation that make sense.


Also, you say you watch her absorbing the Stars. If she could absorb all instantly as you seem to claim, why can you see any stars getting absorbed at all? They should all be gone in a moment.

The universe is HUGE! This is why she take time to absorb all of it. But Kefka, or Kuja, or Sephiroth, are nothing compared to all existence.
Kuja is like a grain of sand in a big desert(the universe). Ultimecia take time to absorb all the desert because of its size, but absorbing a grand of sand(Kuja) would be very easy and fast.


Finally, given the fact that the heroes were able to fight her at all, means that she can't absorb all time in an instant. Meaning there is a period of battle there her ability does her no good at all. Not even a little bit. Even Neo-Exdeath suffered from this same problem. Neither can make use of that ability if someone appears before them to fight.

Others, like Kuja and Kefka, use their full power at will.

The heroes were able to fight her at all, because of "Plot Protection". Maybe she wanted to play with them and underestimated them? Who knows. But please, don't say they won by having more power than her. Because they hasn't.

[Forsaken Lover]

So, what you're saying Crystal is:

That quote, which makes the entire plot irrelevant, is what we base her power on?

Something she herself never hinted at wanting or caring about is what she was doing?

And you're arguing the last fight was actually in space? lol That's the weakest one yet.

And no one cares about you making excuses. We care about -evidence.- What did you say earlier? WHat SE thinks > what I think? And yet you go right ahead and argue your position, not supported anywhere in the game or canon, that "Plot Protection" allowed them to survive. I'll just remind you this is YOUR idea alone and is supported by nothing.

I'm also starting to think you're full of it. I remember scanning Ultimecia's final form and all it said was something like this is the form she took on for Time Compression.

[Ramza Beoulve]

I will quote a Theory I had read in another forum made by a member named Panthera. Maybe Ultimecia was not as powerful as we thought, but still was really powerful. Also, I will only post ONCE in this thread, as I'm not interested in fighting with others about my opinion, because is my opinion and my opinion alone, and I don't care to force it in others. I'm just showing up what I think.


Okay, we all know the usual way of referring to post-Time Compression Ultimecia: Practically a god, arguably the most powerful entity in the FF series [Neo ExDeath being the usual other candidate]. And that seems pretty logical. After all, a being who has absorbed all that has ever or will ever existed ought to have some pretty hefty power. However, there has always been the glaring issue of how the hell she managed to be defeated by people who are undeniably vastly inferior. All arguments about exactly how much the GFs enhance Squall and co aside, we can all agree that there's no reason a handful of GFs can somehow trump the power of every sorceress that has ever existed, in addition to everything else that ever has been or ever will be. The answer, of course, is fate, but how? There seem to be two ways of interpreting it. The one that seems most common is the idea that fate grants them, Squall especially, a vast new power so that he can match her. Hence why people will refer to Squall in VS topics as being able to win "if he gets his DEM powers". The other, which I personally believe [and have been debating with TDL over at the Square Enix board on and off for a month or more now], is that fate caused her to simply make a mistake and allow Squall to stab her-the key to this being that all her great power doesn't actually make her physical body much more durable than anyone else. Still, how does one make a mistake when all they need to do is put up a shield and laugh at the ants poking it? And why would Squall suddenly get vast power without any plot recognition of it? It seems to me that there may be another alternative: Ultimecia is not the reality-controlling god of time we thought she was. This theory has likely been thought of before, but I can't recall having seen it, and I figure, why not?

"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power
from all sorceresses."

That is Ultimecia's scan info in her first form [wording taken from Sir Bahamut's Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ for this and the next quote]. What I find interesting is the use of the present tense. According to this, she didn't TRY to change the world, she is TRYING to change the world. Is this a hint that Ultimecia has not yet absorbed all that power?

"Ultimecia, transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all existence as we speak."

And her final form's scan info. The key to this theory. First, a look at the first half of it. "Ultimecia, transformed to absorb all time and space". Isn't in interesting that they would refer to her in that way? Prior to the final part of the battle, she hasn't transformed. She fights in her normal form, uses Griever, junctions "herself unto Griever", but doesn't actually transform herself in the way this seems to indicate. So prior to the final stage of the final battle, Ultimecia isn't actually absorbing anything by the looks of it! That is further confirmed by the second half, saying that the absorbing is happening during the battle. To me, this means that she hasn't even started to absorb time and space until the very end of the fight against her. She compressed time, yes, but hadn't absorbed it yet. This could also explain a discrepancy I've always noted that appears in her speech before the fight. The price for your meddling is death beyond death. I shall send you to a dimension beyond your imagining. There, I will reign, and you will be my slaves for eternity.

How exactly would she go about doing that? It's always puzzled me why we have TC referred to as being a set up where only Ultimecia can exist, and yet she some how refers to making them her slaves. My theory explains that: TC is NOT absorbtion included. She has to compress time, THEN absorb it. Hence this line now makes sense: once she absorbs reality, they will be in a dimension she rules.

In summary, Ultimecia compresses time, but does not start absorbing it until the end of the final battle. This would mean she is not as powerful as we thought, as she never finished the process, and didn't even start it until shortly before death.

I don't care what others think, and I don't want to push my ideas in others, but I think Ultimecia is, aside Ex-Death, one of the two most powerful beings in the Final Fantasy series.

*EDITGAAA!!!*
Oh, and another thing. It's a SHAME you are fighting for a thing so trivial like "who is the most powerful villain", because every villain in every game is the most powerful in his/her own ways, and it's just the opinion of every person that decides which one they are going to consider the strongest, being it RAW power, Tactical power, God-like power, Political power, Emotional power, etc., etc.

So, stop fighting like kids trying to decide which superhero or dad is greatest. It's a opinion decision, not a universal law.

[NeoCracker]

Okay, first off "Plot Protection" is a horrible argument. If a story is so weak "Plot Protection" is your only argument as to how the heroes can possibly win, I have no Idea how you can enjoy the games story.

"Plot Protection" is what make the main character(s) win, in MANY works of fiction. A villain being incredible powerful, but not using his power because of arrogance, and giving the oportunity to the heros defeat him/her because of that, is an example of "Plot Protection". Make the villain arrogant to be defeated by the heros(that are weaker than him/her), is the Plot making the heros win. But it doesn't mean the main characters are more powerful than the villain. Making the villain subconsciously wanting to lose, is another example of "Plot Protection" to the heros. And many more...
The main characters ALLWAYS win, no mater what.
This is why i say, that the best way to judge the power of a villain, is by his/her feats in the story, not the heros that defeated him/her. Because they will always win, they are the main characters after all.

The fact is: SeeD DONT have more power than her. They CANNOT absorb the friggin universe. They cannot absorb planets, solar systems, stars, galaxys, TIME AND SPACE itself, etc. They never showed this level of power, and they cannot do that.
"Plot Protection" is the only explanation that make sense.


Also, you say you watch her absorbing the Stars. If she could absorb all instantly as you seem to claim, why can you see any stars getting absorbed at all? They should all be gone in a moment.

The universe is HUGE! This is why she take time to absorb all of it. But Kefka, or Kuja, or Sephiroth, are nothing compared to all existence.
Kuja is like a grain of sand in a big desert(the universe). Ultimecia take time to absorb all the desert because of its size, but absorbing a grand of sand(Kuja) would be very easy and fast.


Finally, given the fact that the heroes were able to fight her at all, means that she can't absorb all time in an instant. Meaning there is a period of battle there her ability does her no good at all. Not even a little bit. Even Neo-Exdeath suffered from this same problem. Neither can make use of that ability if someone appears before them to fight.

Others, like Kuja and Kefka, use their full power at will.

The heroes were able to fight her at all, because of "Plot Protection". Maybe she wanted to play with them and underestimated them? Who knows. But please, don't say they won by having more power than her. Because they hasn't.

Yes, of course heroes are going to win. However, Plot Protection alone is rarely the reason. A person being underestimating the heroes can allow them to win, yes. However, that is a reason outside of Plot Protection.

On that note, Ultimecia hardly seems like a villian who would toy around with someone. Recall when Squall attacked her during the parade, she blasted him and was done with it, went right on with her business.

Now lets look at it from this point. She is absorbing STars, which are massive, and much farther away from her than the party. How exactly is she absorbing these stars, which are far larger and much farther away from the party, before the party? Now don't give me this "Plot PRotection" Garbage, give me the reason. She doesn't seem like the type to toy with people, and never once do I recall any hints at all to her wanting to "Subconciously lose" the fight. IF you want to claim these, prove it. Script from the game, actions of characters, anything.

Given it never said she could absorb space and time at the rate you seem to believe, the only logical conclusion is she cannot. And since you are the one who claims she can, you get to provide the "Evidence" and not unfounded conclusions.

[Elpizo]

I stil lwonder hwo absorbing time and existence made Ultimecia the most powerful villain ever. She appeared pretty weak to me in her first three forms, so she wan't powerful to absorb time. And her Final Form that absorbed time and existence? Hell's Judgement and Apocalypse. That's it. If Time Compression and absorbing all of existence make her almighty... Why don't we see that then? When Kuja went in Trance, his Ultima blows all out of his way. Kefka got the statues and clearly used them.

I still wonder what power TC gave Ultimecia. Absorbing time and existence doesn't make one 'powerful' but very skilled. Skilled she could achieve it. But, in terms of power, Ultimecia didn't seem to have much trouble compressing time or absorbing it. She just had to get beaten trice to get to her Final Form. Or is the excuse this time that you already had beaten 3 forms and making her FF very powerful would be unfair?

Never said Ultimecia was bad or something, but if she's the most 'powerful villain of all time in FF' I'm not too sure about. After she didn't seem to be incredibly powerful when she compressed time (game-wise speaking) and her Final Form only had 2 attacks. And that for a being that absorbed all? It was stunning she achiever her nothingness, but what powers it gave her I still wonder. Oh well, guess it was the same with Kefka. 3 battles and the clown himself is pretty easy.

[TyphoonThaReapa]

I understand the fact that everyone here has an opinion here. And arguing is indeed childish. BUT, what would a thread like this be without a good argument...:rolleyes2

Now then, I believe there's two people here that are obviously in denial. What do you guys mean give evidence? WE HAVE EVIDENCE!!! The scan said she transformed to her final form to absorb all of existence. SquareEnix knew what they were doing when they put that. And it doesn't matter whether she did it or not. What REALLY matter is the fact that she HAS THE POWER TO DO SO. Can Yu-Yevon absorb existence? Can Sephroth? Can Kefka? Can Kuja? Can Vaine? Can any other villain in the entire series besides Ultimecia herself absorb what has, is, and have ever exist and control it? I have no more to say...:rolleyes2

[DarkLadyNyara]

If Ultimecia can absorb existance, then Sephiroth can repeatedly destroy the solar system. :rolleyes2

[NeoCracker]

I understand the fact that everyone here has an opinion here. And arguing is indeed childish. BUT, what would a thread like this be without a good argument...:rolleyes2

Now then, I believe there's two people here that are obviously in denial. What do you guys mean give evidence? WE HAVE EVIDENCE!!! The scan said she transformed to her final form to absorb all of existence. SquareEnix knew what they were doing when they put that. And it doesn't matter whether she did it or not. What REALLY matter is the fact that she HAS THE POWER TO DO SO. Can Yu-Yevon absorb existence? Can Sephroth? Can Kefka? Can Kuja? Can Vaine? Can any other villain in the entire series besides Ultimecia herself absorb what has, is, and have ever exist and control it? I have no more to say...:rolleyes2

No, no other can. However look at the glaring weakness of her ability. It reminds me of Sephiroths meteor. That being, there is a period of time there where they can be defeated, and in that time period if they are defeated, their power is thus defeated. The only hope of proving Ultimecia is strongest is to prove that she cannot be defeated in the period of time it takes before her power takes full effect, otherwise this "Ultimately powerful Power" is rather worthless.

[Vivisteiner]

What proof do we have that Ultimecia has the ability to absorb all of existence?

She may have tried to absorb all of existence - but in the end, she failed and achieved nothing apart from Time Compression. She never proved to us that she could absorb all of existence anyway. Even I could try to absorb all of existence - doesnt make me the most powerful villain. (Although I am)

Where is this scan anyway?

[Goldenboko]

I'd like to point out she was, "absorbing existance," but hadn't done it yet. This is evident because the game managed to continue. If she absorbed all existance then guess what? The characters would go poof, gone, obviously they didn't. Now I don't want to hear, Plot Protection, because Final Fantasy gives so many reasons why they could win in most of their games.

(Examples)
IV: Power of the Crystal Weakens Zeromus
VI: Never pointed out, but you could assume it was through the power of the Crystals.
VII: This is one of the games where you just have to say it was just the character's strength, they could do in AC, they could do it in VII xp.
IX: They can't beat Kuja.



I understand the fact that everyone here has an opinion here. And arguing is indeed childish. BUT, what would a thread like this be without a good argument...:rolleyes2

Now then, I believe there's two people here that are obviously in denial. What do you guys mean give evidence? WE HAVE EVIDENCE!!! The scan said she transformed to her final form to absorb all of existence. SquareEnix knew what they were doing when they put that. And it doesn't matter whether she did it or not. What REALLY matter is the fact that she HAS THE POWER TO DO SO. Can Yu-Yevon absorb existence? Can Sephroth? Can Kefka? Can Kuja? Can Vaine? Can any other villain in the entire series besides Ultimecia herself absorb what has, is, and have ever exist and control it? I have no more to say...:rolleyes2

No, no other can. However look at the glaring weakness of her ability. It reminds me of Sephiroths meteor. That being, there is a period of time there where they can be defeated, and in that time period if they are defeated, their power is thus defeated. The only hope of proving Ultimecia is strongest is to prove that she cannot be defeated in the period of time it takes before her power takes full effect, otherwise this "Ultimately powerful Power" is rather worthless.Ah, the voice of reasons speaks

[NeoCracker]

I'd like to point out she was, "absorbing existance," but hadn't done it yet. This is evident because the game managed to continue. If she absorbed all existance then guess what? The characters would go poof, gone, obviously they didn't. Now I don't want to hear, Plot Protection, because Final Fantasy gives so many reasons why they could win in most of their games.

(Examples)
IV: Power of the Crystal Weakens Zeromus
VI: Never pointed out, but you could assume it was through the power of the Crystals.
VII: This is one of the games where you just have to say it was just the character's strength, they could do in AC, they could do it in VII xp.
IX: They can't beat Kuja.



I understand the fact that everyone here has an opinion here. And arguing is indeed childish. BUT, what would a thread like this be without a good argument...:rolleyes2

Now then, I believe there's two people here that are obviously in denial. What do you guys mean give evidence? WE HAVE EVIDENCE!!! The scan said she transformed to her final form to absorb all of existence. SquareEnix knew what they were doing when they put that. And it doesn't matter whether she did it or not. What REALLY matter is the fact that she HAS THE POWER TO DO SO. Can Yu-Yevon absorb existence? Can Sephroth? Can Kefka? Can Kuja? Can Vaine? Can any other villain in the entire series besides Ultimecia herself absorb what has, is, and have ever exist and control it? I have no more to say...:rolleyes2

No, no other can. However look at the glaring weakness of her ability. It reminds me of Sephiroths meteor. That being, there is a period of time there where they can be defeated, and in that time period if they are defeated, their power is thus defeated. The only hope of proving Ultimecia is strongest is to prove that she cannot be defeated in the period of time it takes before her power takes full effect, otherwise this "Ultimately powerful Power" is rather worthless.Ah, the voice of reasons speaks

VI wasn't the Crystals. It is very safe to assume that together, the 13 of them had gained enough power to defeat Kefka on their own Merits.

IX, they did in fact beat Kuja, however it was only due to the fact they were in the Vacinity of the Crystal. Until they beat him, he didn't want to use Ultima to avoid destroying the Crystal. However with his defeat, he decided to drag everyone down.

So they can beat Kuja, its just it requires them being in the particular location the defeated him at. I mean Kuja's plans were thwarted. They may not have been stronger, but they did in fact beat him.

[Bunny]

That Emperor Palamecia was pretty nifty guys.

[Forsaken Lover]

What happened after the fight with Trance Kuja is all a mystery. How he got to the Iifa Tree, what exactly happened to the party when he Ultima's them, what Necron was... it's all purely theoretical. In any case, Kuja was capable of defeating the party in one stroke when he finally wanted to. I'm of the mind he was fairly insane and totall clouded by his fears at this point and wasn't thinking straight hence why it took to the brink of defeat before he used Ultima.

In any case, I never got how some people thought he broke the Crystal with that attack. It was directed at the party. The crystal was behind IIRC.

[The Crystal]

You don't want to use "Plot Protection" to explain what happened? Fine. Lets say that SeeD were more powerful than her. That make them more powerful than a being that was "eating" the entire universe. That means they are damm powerful. Much more than Kuja, or Kefka, the other villains(with exception of Ex-Death) or heros of the other games.

Some people here, try to use the argument "she was defeated by SeeD" to prove she was weak. But this argument doesn't work. She was absorbing all existence and gaining power from it, proving that she was much more powerful than the heros(because they cannot do something so impressive like that). But if she was much more powerful than them, why she lost? Exist only two logical explanations. Or she did something wrong(didn't kill them when she could, for some reason), or SeeD gained a great power boost and beated her. In one way or another, she still was absorbing the entire universe. She still was doing something more impressive(and that required more power) than any other FF villain ever did.

And that scan don't contradict anything stated in the game.

All this discussion is ridiculous, really. I could ask to a child of 10 years old(maybe less) "Who is more powerful, a guy that can destroy a planet, or a guy that can destroy/absorb the universe?" and her/his answer would make more sense than yours.

[Vivisteiner]

Proof.

Prove that Ultimecia can absorb the Universe, because quite frankly, at the moment Im thinking that you're talking crap. Ill take that back if you prove it.

We have proof over what Kuja and Kefka can do, but show me the scan, or a quote or something like that. Stop repeating the same arguments over and over again. When does it state that Ultimecia has the ability to absorb the Universe?

[TyphoonThaReapa]

Proof.

Prove that Ultimecia can absorb the Universe, because quite frankly, at the moment Im thinking that you're talking crap. Ill take that back if you prove it.

We have proof over what Kuja and Kefka can do, but show me the scan, or a quote or something like that. Stop repeating the same arguments over and over again. When does it state that Ultimecia has the ability to absorb the Universe?

So you never saw the scan? It said exactly what's being said. Ultimecia transform to absorb ALL OF EXISTENCE AS WE SPEAK. Thats cold hard evidence DIRECTLY from the game. Just having that ability makes her incredibly powerful.

Forsaker, your talking about direct battle experience from the game right? Well, if you think about it, every single FF villain is weak when you get your party on a certain level. Until you give me statistics directly from both games stating Ultimecia's stats is weaker than Kuja or any other villain you wish, this is an irrelevant argument due to the fact that their from different games.

Neocorncracker, I'm not implying Ultimecia can beat any FF villain in combat. I'm saying her power is far more impressive than any other FF villain.

[Forsaken Lover]

All this discussion is ridiculous, really. I could ask to a child of 10 years old(maybe less) "Who is more powerful, a guy that can destroy a planet, or a guy that can destroy/absorb the universe?" and her/his answer would make more sense than yours.

Misinforming children is what terrorists do, FYI.

More like "what is more impressive: a guy who actually destroyed a planet or a person who supposedly could absorb the universe?" And, again, define existence in FFVIII terms. We know already "world" can be defined as an entire timeline. How can you prove all existence doesn't just refer to all the timelines of the planet?

And arguing the final battle is in space makes no sense since uh......................Squall and the others can't breathe or move in space? If anything it's just a big black void to represent what Ultimecia is trying to do: everythign is gone except her.

As for absorbing stars, are you referring to the shiny little lights that vanish into the black? Those don't look anything like stars. They look like Tinkerbell.

Finally, what is it her final and according to you "universe absorbing" form is after?
"Time shall compress...."

AHA! She's STILL compressing time. Time Compression. Mixing together past, present and future. Not ABSORBING existence.

[Elpizo]

having that ability makes her incredibly powerful.


How so? What kind of superpowers does she have that enable her to absorb time that all other villains don't have? Simple: NONE. She just had the plan and the skill. What kind of superpowers does absorbing time and existence give her? As far as we see in the game, again, NONE. Hell's Judgement is pathetic and Apocalypse you can prepare against it.

So how does absorbing existence make Ultimecia the most 'powerful' villain ever? For as far as we see, Ultimecia is still VERY weak in her Final-All-Absoring-Form. If we cast 'plot-protection' on the Final Forms of the other villains so they can fight her without getting absorbed in her just like that without any fight (of course, not the heroes, plot protection huh?), they'll kick her behind. Hard.

All TC and absorbing time and existence seems to give her is immortality. Not power. And that's what this is topic is about. The most 'powerful' FF villain. Ultimecia is not the most powerful. Absorbing time and existence doesn't make her the most powerful, as it seems to give her no powers at all exept the immortality she desires. She wasn't superpowerful so she could absorb existence. Being the most powerful FF villain wasn't required to absorb all of existence. As Ultimecia proves. And absorbing all time and existence doesn't make one the most 'powerful' villain either, as Ultimecia again proves.

[The Crystal]

You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a world by himself.


Ultimecia transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all existence as we speak.

Like i said before, even a child would know who is more powerful. This entire discussion is pathetic.

The level of fanboyism in this thread is making me sick. I'm done here. Bye.

[Elpizo]

You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a world by himself.


Ultimecia transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all existence as we speak.

Like i said before, even a child would know who is more powerful. This entire discussion is pathetic.

The level of fanboyism in this thread is making me sick. I'm done here. Bye.

You just can't accept it that absorbing-time-and-existence =/= being the most powerful villain.

[Goldenboko]

I'd like to point out she was, "absorbing existance," but hadn't done it yet. This is evident because the game managed to continue. If she absorbed all existance then guess what? The characters would go poof, gone, obviously they didn't. Now I don't want to hear, Plot Protection, because Final Fantasy gives so many reasons why they could win in most of their games.

(Examples)
IV: Power of the Crystal Weakens Zeromus
VI: Never pointed out, but you could assume it was through the power of the Crystals.
VII: This is one of the games where you just have to say it was just the character's strength, they could do in AC, they could do it in VII xp.
IX: They can't beat Kuja.



I understand the fact that everyone here has an opinion here. And arguing is indeed childish. BUT, what would a thread like this be without a good argument...:rolleyes2

Now then, I believe there's two people here that are obviously in denial. What do you guys mean give evidence? WE HAVE EVIDENCE!!! The scan said she transformed to her final form to absorb all of existence. SquareEnix knew what they were doing when they put that. And it doesn't matter whether she did it or not. What REALLY matter is the fact that she HAS THE POWER TO DO SO. Can Yu-Yevon absorb existence? Can Sephroth? Can Kefka? Can Kuja? Can Vaine? Can any other villain in the entire series besides Ultimecia herself absorb what has, is, and have ever exist and control it? I have no more to say...:rolleyes2

No, no other can. However look at the glaring weakness of her ability. It reminds me of Sephiroths meteor. That being, there is a period of time there where they can be defeated, and in that time period if they are defeated, their power is thus defeated. The only hope of proving Ultimecia is strongest is to prove that she cannot be defeated in the period of time it takes before her power takes full effect, otherwise this "Ultimately powerful Power" is rather worthless.Ah, the voice of reasons speaks

VI wasn't the Crystals. It is very safe to assume that together, the 13 of them had gained enough power to defeat Kefka on their own Merits.

IX, they did in fact beat Kuja, however it was only due to the fact they were in the Vacinity of the Crystal. Until they beat him, he didn't want to use Ultima to avoid destroying the Crystal. However with his defeat, he decided to drag everyone down.

So they can beat Kuja, its just it requires them being in the particular location the defeated him at. I mean Kuja's plans were thwarted. They may not have been stronger, but they did in fact beat him.
Close enough, I was just proving there is a reason why the parties can, or can't beat the bosses.

[Forsaken Lover]

The level of fanboyism in this thread is making me sick. I'm done here. Bye.

We'll miss you and your bulshi*t quote that makes all of Final Fantasy VIII irrelevant.

[DarkLadyNyara]

The level of fanboyism in this thread is making me sick. I'm done here. Bye.

*blinks* Pot. Kettle. Black.

[NeoCracker]

You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a world by himself.


Ultimecia transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all existence as we speak.

Like i said before, even a child would know who is more powerful. This entire discussion is pathetic.

The level of fanboyism in this thread is making me sick. I'm done here. Bye.

You will never understand how hard the Irony of this statement made me laugh.

[TyphoonThaReapa]

How so? What kind of superpowers does she have that enable her to absorb time that all other villains don't have? Simple: NONE. She just had the plan and the skill. What kind of superpowers does absorbing time and existence give her? As far as we see in the game, again, NONE. Hell's Judgement is pathetic and Apocalypse you can prepare against it.


You seem to be forgetting the fact that Ultimecia is a Sorceress. And Sorceress has very powerful mental abilities. Ultimecia is so powerful with her abilities, she wiped SeeD from the face of the planet with her power in her time. And that was in her first form. It's obvious that she's at least three times as powerful in her final form. So, if you want to know what superpower she has to do what SquareEnix, the creators of the game, claim. It would be the fact that she is the most powerful Sorceress that has ever existed.


So how does absorbing existence make Ultimecia the most 'powerful' villain ever? For as far as we see, Ultimecia is still VERY weak in her Final-All-Absoring-Form. If we cast 'plot-protection' on the Final Forms of the other villains so they can fight her without getting absorbed in her just like that without any fight (of course, not the heroes, plot protection huh?), they'll kick her behind. Hard.

Ok, your right, I take that back. Plot Protection is not relevant. But, we both seem to have forgotten why Squall and his team was able to fight her in her time in the first place. Remember the plan Laguna came up with that enable Squall and his party to exist in Ultimecia's time? That's why they are able to fight her. Exactly like the party was able to fight and hurt Kuja. Certain conditions must be ment to even confront Ultimecia due to the fact she exist in a far away time period. This is also why Squall and his party was able to fight Ultimecia (Final Form) in space. Yes, they were in space. Just like most FF bosses are. The bond the Squall and his party created among each other due to Laguna's plan gave them a power that rivals that of Ultimecia. That is why when one of the party members fainted, they were absorbed by her/in time because that bond that allowed they to exist in the time compressed world broken. I say absorb by her because Ultimecia was, in fact, absorbing all of existence during the fight. By all of existence, I mean all of Time, all of Space, and all of Life. In conclusion, The only way to fight or even exist where Ultimecia resides would be to create a power simular to that of the power of the bond Squall and his party created due to Laguna's plan.


All TC and absorbing time and existence seems to give her is immortality. Not power. And that's what this is topic is about. The most 'powerful' FF villain. Ultimecia is not the most powerful. Absorbing time and existence doesn't make her the most powerful, as it seems to give her no powers at all exept the immortality she desires. She wasn't superpowerful so she could absorb existence. Being the most powerful FF villain wasn't required to absorb all of existence. As Ultimecia proves. And absorbing all time and existence doesn't make one the most 'powerful' villain either, as Ultimecia again proves.

First of all, like I said before, if Ultimecia's opponent can not create and power similar to that of the bond Squall and his party created among themselves, existing in Time Compression is impossible. Secondly, no one said Absorbing Existence makes her immortal. But, it does make her God. By that I mean, once she had absorbed all of existence, every single thing that has ever existed would be at her control. Everything would be like strings on a puppet and she would be the puppet master. In conclusion, if the condition stated can not be meant by any opponent opposing Ultimecia, Time Compression will deny their existence.

[Lynx]

i keep seeing all this talk of time compression. ultimecias power to end everything right?

well whose to say that other FF villains couldnt do this.

kefka reached god form im sure he could wipe out exhistance if he wnated to but why do that he probably figured?

jenova wanted to be a god and if she reached that point whose to say she wouldnt have that power?

necron probably did have the power but didnt use it.

lets face it most ff villains are jsut as powerful as the rest.

[The Crystal]

I just thought it was important to post this:


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x295/Karellen_LurkeroftheSkies/UltimeciaTrue.jpg

The Scan created by SE, to give us precise information about all enemies in the game. Not the word/quote of a character in the game, but the official word of SE themselfes. It's not wrong and it's a fact.

But if you believe that, destroying a planet >>>>>>>>> absorbing all existence, you are a complete idiot, and i feel sad for you.

[Bolivar]

Who cares about Time Compression. Garland was chosen by the Four Fiends to be Chaos, the force of darkness itself. He already had control of time, sending the Four Fiends into the future to bring darkness to the world. The only thing that could stop him was the Light itself.

SeeD's just some damn kids. :cool:

[f f freak]

But if you believe that, destroying a planet >>>>>>>>> absorbing all existence, you are a complete idiot, and i feel sad for you.

Actually Ultimecia never absorbed all of existence. She was ABSORBING all of existence. She was too stupid to start absorbing at the start of battle. Then she would probably be too stupid to start asorbing all of existence at the start of battle with the other villians so they could kill her off quickly.

Also I would just like to state the numerous times throughout other games (Not just FF's) Love is supposedly the strongest force in the world. Most villians are all about the HATE!!!!!!!!! However there is one FF villian who isn't. Yes I am talking about Sephiroth. He loves Jenova very much and with all that LOVE he must be the strongest person in the world.

[The Crystal]

Actually Ultimecia never absorbed all of existence. She was ABSORBING all of existence. She was too stupid to start absorbing at the start of battle. Then she would probably be too stupid to start asorbing all of existence at the start of battle with the other villians so they could kill her off quickly.

Did you read what i said(or what the Scan said)? She was ABSORBING existence. I NEVER said she absorbed all of it. Learn to read.

And like Odine stated in the game, her future was OUTSIDE of TC in that moment. This is why she couldn't absorb time and space until the final battle.


Also I would just like to state the numerous times throughout other games (Not just FF's) Love is supposedly the strongest force in the world. Most villians are all about the HATE!!!!!!!!! However there is one FF villian who isn't. Yes I am talking about Sephiroth. He loves Jenova very much and with all that LOVE he must be the strongest person in the world.

Good joke dude.

[Forsaken Lover]

Did you read what i said(or what the Scan said)? She was ABSORBING existence. I NEVER said she absorbed all of it. Learn to read.

And like Odine stated in the game, her future was OUTSIDE of TC in that moment. This is why she couldn't absorb time and space until the final battle.

Prove it. Show me the quote saying Time Compression started in the final battle. All I saw, just like in FFVII, was the main boss transforming and then we are moved to new locations. I saw no evidence at all of Time Compression.

Finally, she can't absorb individuals as proven by the party. They must be KO'ed before she can absorb them. If you want to argue otherwise, show me an instance when she absorbed anyone instantly. Never? Then thanks. She has to KO them, AS PROVEN in the battle, before she can absorb them.

By then, Kuja will have obliterated her with an Ultima.Unless you can offer up any durability feats? Name some damage she took and survived.

[Elpizo]

"Ultimecia is the most powerful villain in FF ever, because she's absorbing all time and existence."

Yeah well, if we cast plot-protection on the villains and have em battle her one on one, she would still get beaten by numerous villains.

"Ultimecia is the most powerful villain in FF ever, because she's absorbing all time and existence."

But, being the most powerful would mean being able to defeat and kill all villains. Like I said, if we cast plot protection on other villains, Ultimecia wouldn't always win. She lacks the power to do so.

"Ultimecia is the most powerful villain in FF ever, because she's absorbing all time and existence."

But...

"Ultimecia is the most powerful villain in FF ever, because she's absorbing all time and existence."

There, I summed up the entire discussion with The Crystal in one post. There, Ultimecia is the most powerful ever, because she's absorbing all time and existence. If the villains would be immune to her absorbing, she would still be the most powerful villain because she absorbs time and existence and thus would kill all those other villains with ease without using her cheap 'let's absorb!'. Of course, this won't happen at all, but she's still the most powerful because she's absoring all time and existance.

[The Crystal]

Why you guys are talking about SeeD? SeeD =/= Ultimecia.

And Forsaken Lover, "she can't absorb individuals"? So, she can absorb existence itself, but cannot absorb some pathetic humans? This is ridiculous and don't make any sense.
And even if this is true, after absorbing one planet or one star, she would have power enough to obliterate all of them(SeeD and Kuja) with easy.

Anyone with a brain know that: The power to absorb time and space >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power to destroy some towers/buildings in Terra(the "destroyed a planet" thing, was hyperbole). Ultimecia would use this power to kill Kuja.

[Forsaken Lover]

And Forsaken Lover, "she can't absorb individuals"?

Nope. As seen in the fight with her.


So, she can absorb existence itself, but cannot absorb some pathetic humans?

That’s the way the game makers made it, yes. Your logic <<< what is shown in the game.


This is ridiculous and don't make any sense.

It’s a videogame about time gunswords, evil hags from the future and big rocks that make monsters on the moon fall down.

...it’s supposed to make sense?



And even if this is true, after absorbing one planet or one star

I never saw any planets or stars being absorbed and no one said she did. That’s because she’s absorbing it all as we speak...but we don’t see any of it. You think you’d see planets flying into her. Not to mention I could speak to her for an infinite length, keeping my game on for potentially days upon months and she wouldn’t have absorbed anything as far as we can tell.

,
she would have power enough to obliterate all of them(SeeD and Kuja) with easy.

That would be why SeeD kicked he rass and so would Kuja because he easily destroys planets and the party (something Ultimecia can’t do).



Anyone with a brain know that: The power to absorb time and space >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power to destroy some towers/buildings in Terra(the "destroyed a planet" thing, was hyperbole). Ultimecia would use this power to kill Kuja.

Actually, it's fact. Unlike you and your idiotic quote, Kuja's destroying Terra is said multiple times and not contradicted by Square itself. The scan you use is flatly proven wrong by the other scan I posted.

[jammi567]

As i posted on the other thread about this pathetic issue, i really don't want to get involved. However, before this gets locked, i just want to post what the definition of 'world' means, according to Dictonary.com:

world http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fworld) /wɜrld/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wurld] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.the earth or globe, considered as a planet. 2.(often initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) a particular division of the earth: the Western world. 3.the earth or a part of it, with its inhabitants, affairs, etc., during a particular period: the ancient world. 4.humankind; the human race; humanity: The world must eliminate war and poverty. 5.the public generally: The whole world knows it. 6.the class of persons devoted to the affairs, interests, or pursuits of this life: The world worships success. 7.a particular class of people, with common interests, aims, etc.: the fashionable world. 8.any sphere, realm, or domain, with all pertaining to it: a child's world; the world of dreams; the insect world. 9.everything that exists; the universe; the macrocosm. 10.any complex whole conceived as resembling the universe: the world of the microcosm. 11.one of the three general groupings of physical nature: animal world; mineral world; vegetable world. 12.any period, state, or sphere of existence: this world; the world to come. 13.Often, worlds. a great deal: That vacation was worlds of fun. 14.any indefinitely great expanse. 15.any heavenly body: the starry worlds. —Idioms 16.bring into the world, a.to give birth to; bear: My grandmother brought nine children into the world. b.to deliver (a baby): the doctor brought many children into the world. 17.come into the world, to be born: Her first child came into the world in June. 18.for all the world, a.for any consideration, however great: She wouldn't come to visit us for all the world. b.in every respect; precisely: You look for all the world like my Aunt Mary. 19.in the world, a.at all; ever: I never in the world would have believed such an obvious lie. b.from among all possibilities: Where in the world did you find that hat? 20.on top of the world. top (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=top)^1 (def. 46). 21.out of this or the world, exceptional; fine: The chef prepared a roast duck that was out of this world. 22.set the world on fire, to achieve great fame and success: He didn't seem to be the type to set the world on fire. 23.think the world of, to like or admire greatly: His coworkers think the world of him. 24.world without end, for all eternity; for always.

---

[Origin: bef. 900; ME; OE world, weorold; c. D wereld, G Welt, ON verǫld, all < Gmc *wer-ald- lit., age of manhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

—Synonyms 1. See earth. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=earth)


<CITE>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.</CITE>[!] end luna [/!][!] begin ahd4 [/!]<CITE>American Heritage Dictionary</CITE> (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=world&ia=ahd4) world http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fworld) (wûrld) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
[!]BOF_HEAD[/!]n. [!]EOF_HEAD[/!] [!]BOF_DEF[/!]
The earth.
The universe.
The earth with its inhabitants.
The inhabitants of the earth; the human race.

Humankind considered as social beings; human society: turned her back on the world.
People as a whole; the public: The event amazed the world.
A sphere of human activity or interest: the world of sports.
A class or group of people with common characteristics or pursuits: the scientific world.
Human existence; life: brought a child into the world.
A state of existence: the next world.
often World A specified part of the earth: the Western World.
A part of the earth and its inhabitants as known at a given period in history: the ancient world.
A realm or domain: the animal world; the world of imagination.

A sphere of human activity or interest: the world of sports.
A class or group of people with common characteristics or pursuits: the scientific world.
Human existence; life: brought a child into the world.
A state of existence: the next world.
A particular way of life: the world of the homeless.
All that relates to or affects the life of a person: He saw his world collapse about him.
Secular life and its concerns: a man of the world.

Human existence; life: brought a child into the world.
A state of existence: the next world.
A large amount; much. Often used in the plural: did her a world of good; candidates that are worlds apart on foreign policy.
A celestial body such as a planet: the possibility of life on other worlds.
[!]EOF_DEF[/!][!]BOF_HEAD[/!]adj. [!]EOF_HEAD[/!] [!]BOF_DEF[/!]
Of or relating to the world: a world champion.
Involving or extending throughout the entire world: a world crisis.
[!]EOF_DEF[/!][!]BOF_DEF[/!]
[Middle English, from Old English <TT>weorold</TT>; see <TT>wī-ro-</TT> in Indo-European roots.]
[!]EOF_DEF[/!]
(Download Now (http://dictionary.reference.com/go/http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/eref/buy_HMAFF00004.jsp) or Buy the Book (http://dictionary.reference.com/bookstore/ahd4.html)) <CITE>The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.</CITE>[!] end ahd4 [/!][!] begin etymon [/!]<CITE>Online Etymology Dictionary</CITE> (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/etymon.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=world&ia=etymon)
world

O.E. woruld, worold "human existence, the affairs of life," also "the human race, mankind," a word peculiar to Gmc. languages (cf. O.S. werold, O.Fris. warld, Du. wereld, O.N. verold, O.H.G. weralt, Ger. Welt), with a literal sense of "age of man," from P.Gmc. *wer "man" (O.E. wer, still in werewolf; see virile (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/virile)) + *ald "age" (see old (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/old)). Originally "life on earth, this world (as opposed to the afterlife)," sense extended to "the known world" (e.g. "Greatest Show on Earth"), then to "the physical world in the broadest sense, the universe" (c.1200). In O.E. gospels, the commonest word for "the physical world," was Middangeard (O.N. Midgard), lit. "the middle enclosure" (cf. yard), which is rooted in Gmc. cosmology. Gk. kosmos in its ecclesiastical sense of "world of people" sometimes was rendered in Goth. as manaseþs, lit. "seed of man." The usual O.N. word was heimr, lit. "abode" (see home). Words for "world" in some other I.E. languages derive from the root for "bottom, foundation" (cf. Ir. domun, O.C.S. duno, related to Eng. deep); the Lith. word is pasaulis, from pa- "under" + saule "sun." Original sense in world without end, translating L. sæcula sæculorum, and in worldly (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worldly). L. sæculum can mean both "age" and "world," as can Gk. aion. Worldwide is from 1632. World power in the geopolitical sense first recorded 1900. World-class is attested from 1950, originally of Olympic athletes.

<CITE>Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper</CITE>[!] end etymon [/!][!] begin wn [/!]<CITE>WordNet</CITE> (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/wn.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=world&ia=wn) world
adjective1. involving the entire earth; not limited or provincial in scope; "global war"; "global monetary policy"; "neither national nor continental but planetary"; "a world crisis"; "of worldwide significance" [syn: global (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/global)]
noun1. everything that exists anywhere; "they study the evolution of the universe"; "the biggest tree in existence" [syn: universe (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/universe)] 2. people in general; especially a distinctive group of people with some shared interest; "the Western world" 3. all of your experiences that determine how things appear to you; "his world was shattered"; "we live in different worlds"; "for them demons were as much a part of reality as trees were" 4. the 3rd planet from the sun; the planet we live on; "the Earth moves around the sun"; "he sailed around the world" [syn: Earth (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Earth)] 5. people in general considered as a whole; "he is a hero in the eyes of the public" [syn: populace (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/populace)] 6. a part of the earth that can be considered separately; "the outdoor world"; "the world of insects" 7. the concerns of this life as distinguished from heaven and the afterlife; "they consider the church to be independent of the world" [syn: worldly concern (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worldly%20concern)] 8. all of the living human inhabitants of the earth; "all the world loves a lover"; "she always used 'humankind' because 'mankind' seemed to slight the women"

[The Crystal]

Nope. As seen in the fight with her.

That’s the way the game makers made it, yes. Your logic <<< what is shown in the game.

It’s a videogame about time gunswords, evil hags from the future and big rocks that make monsters on the moon fall down.

...it’s supposed to make sense?

Okay, it doesn't make any sense, but this is the way the creators made the game.


I never saw any planets or stars being absorbed and no one said she did. That’s because she’s absorbing it all as we speak...but we don’t see any of it. You think you’d see planets flying into her.

You don't need to see anything. If the creators say she can do it, is because she can. This is why she would be the only one to exist, because she would absorb everything. Like you can see, that Scan exist to explain to us, why she would be the only one to exist in TC. Everything is explained in the game without contradictions. You just have to understand the story.


Not to mention I could speak to her for an infinite length, keeping my game on for potentially days upon months and she wouldn’t have absorbed anything as far as we can tell.

And i could keep my FFVII game on for days or months, and Meteor would never hit the planet.


That would be why SeeD kicked her ass

We aren't talking about SeeD here, they aren't important. And Cloud kicked the ass of Sephiroth, that means Cloud can transform the entire planet in a "space ship" to travel the universe? The Returners killed Kefka, that means they can destroy the surface of the planet and destroy cities with the Light of Judgement?
We have many cases in RPGs where the heroes defeat enemies MUCH more powerful than them. The fact that SeeD defeated her, don't prove anything about her power level.


and so would Kuja because he easily destroys planets and the party (something Ultimecia can’t do).

No he don't. He destroyed some towers, that's all.


Actually, it's fact. Unlike you and your idiotic quote, Kuja's destroying Terra is said multiple times and not contradicted by Square itself. The scan you use is flatly proven wrong by the other scan I posted.

The world is part of existence. In the moment that she absorb existence, the world would change forever. See? No contradiction. And even if it contradicted something, it would still be a fact. Everything SE says about FF is a fact, and they said "Ultimecia, transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all existence as we speak.". They didn't say "Ultimecia, transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all the world as we speak.". You are wrong. Deal with it.

And Kuja never showed the power to destroy a planet. The only thing we have to "prove" that, are quotes from one or two characters that DIDN'T KNOW what happened in Terra, because they were runing away. They didn't saw Kuja "destroying" it. They ASSUMED he did that.
We don't have any prove he could do it. It's hyperbole.

[Zeromus_X]

There are times when the phrase "it's just a game" needs to be said. This would be one of those times.