Fire Emblem, Discussion of Awesomesauce

[KentaRawr!]

So, recently I came into contact with the Fire Emblem series, and I'm currently playing the Fire Emblem for the Gameboy Advance, mostly known as FE7 by fans apparently. I'm currently on Chapter 13, and I'm not really all that good. >_>

So, anyway, what do you guys think of the Fire Emblem series? Any good at it? Etc., etc.

[ljkkjlcm9]

it is the best strategy game ever. I love the characters, I love how when they die, they actually die. I love the difficulty levels... I just love it.

One of my favorite series ever.

THE JACKEL

[ShunNakamura]

I say meh.

But I have only played Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones for the GBA thus far.

Part of the reason it is meh for me is I came into the series with a bit more expectations. First I figured it would be at least slightly 'difficult' on difficult mode. And I am far let down on that. The only thing that could really qualify as difficult is the tediousness of having to restart/reload if you make even a single mistake[ok, some mistakes won't warrant a restart, but generally if I make a mistake it is a doozie] or get REALLY unlucky.

Secondly since it was a tactics game I was hoping for something with the tactical value of FFT. Tactically speaking I would take Final Fantasy Tactics over it any day[but I have yet to find a tactics game that I like tactically more than FFT, which is sad since FFT has several glaring flaws that need fixed and several things that would make it better]. And possibly Tactics Ogre as well. Other than those two Fire Emblem is a definite top notch Tactics game.

Oh yes, and about plot..... FE lacks that so hard I think it fell in on itself and made a black hole[no not quite that bad, but the story isn't exactly its strong point]. This hurts it as an RPG but generally speaking pure tactical games don't really need a story, hence I am not putting it in the tactical paragraph.

And before I forget there is a TBS game that has nearly as good tactics as any tactics game that I didn't mention because I don't usually think of it as a tactics game(seeing as how you can go the entire game without using 'tactical combat'). But Age of Wonders and its sequels have some really sweet elements in the tactical combat that I would love to see occur elsewhere(attacks of opportunity for the win).


Anyways in the end it is a top notch game that falls short only because I grew into tactical games with FFT which sets a fairly high standard for that genre and while FE:TSS shines over FFT in some areas when it comes down to me deciding which is overall the better FFT comes out on top. However, I'll be giving the FE series a likely 10/10 if only because it is the best Tactics game I have played on any portable system(though if I ever get to play the FFT remake....).



Just as a note, the FFT system of chars dieing made the most sense to me due to one reason. It is obvious that even a red hp unit isn't in critical health yet. I have seen some fights and wrestled quite a bit and when someone is hurt badly(and if you are hurt badly enough you are about to die it is likely even worse) your capabilities to fight are reduced. This doesn't happen so I am left to assume that your are in critical(will die very soon without medical attention) health when your HP hits zero and phoenix downs just happen to be a super medicine that miraculously heals any critical injury(but yet doesn't heal regular injuries!). This is of course even further supported by the fact that phoenix downs don't revive people who are actually shown to be dead(Aeris is an easy example). And just to be fair to FE it is just possible they have no way of saving someone on the battlefield who has been critically wounded due to the lack of said miracle drug or of the medical knowledge needed for such an event. But by allowing it you give someone some room for mistakes so that they don't need to restart an hour long battle because they got unlucky and an enemy hit with a 19% hit rate and went critical at the same time with a 1% crit rate(yes I had that happen to me :().

And just one more kudos to FE. Weapon durability and needed certian weapon skill levels to equip high level weapons = love. I just wish there was more equipment than weapons in the game.

[ljkkjlcm9]

Shun, you played the easiest, and worst IMO fire emblem that came state side. If you have a gamecube or Wii, get Path of Radiance. It's truly amazing.

THE JACKEL

[ShunNakamura]

Shun, you played the easiest, and worst IMO fire emblem that came state side. If you have a gamecube or Wii, get Path of Radiance. It's truly amazing.

THE JACKAL

Unless I find an emulator that can emulate the game on my PC that ain't happening*. I won't be buying a Wii(I have given it the doubt long enough in my opinion, but I still find it to be a piece of ****); and the gamecube is also an inferior system in my mind. Even my FE:TSS that I have is being played emulated because I find the GBA to also be a piece of ****. So I just buy the games and play them on my laptop/PC(heck even my PS games I play on my PC, and I got a PS for free so I don't even have to emulate them).

And even then of course I have the issue of finding the game to buy. The only FE around here I saw was TSS. I guess I could always go online, but my lack of anything but money orders as payments hampers some of those places.



Anyways as for your worst... I haven't actually heard that about it. I keep hearing that it is better than the other GBA one[maybe not more difficult but 'better'].




*I have tried Dolphin but it runs too slow on anything I have tested it on.. and I won't buy a game if I can't play it.



Edit- Out of curiousity what is what makes it so much easier? Fewer enemies? Stronger Characters? Dumber AI?

[ljkkjlcm9]

I don't like TSS because it's very different from previous Fire Emblem games. Many people like it because of this fact. Being able to choose classes for when they level, is new to this game. Also, the monster maps and places you can go just to level, is new to this game. Most just have a story line, and you play them, and you have to level everyone equally. You don't have these side missions you can do to catch up in exp. This means not only are you strategically fighting, but you have to strategically distribute exp to keep everyone up at fighting level (or at least everyone in your main party). This makes the game easier because you can literally level every person... you can buy stat boosts in the secret shops, etc. It gives the game further goals to reach, like maxing out all the stats on all characters (which I've done with a number of characters) but also takes away that challenge feeling from Fire Emblems. If you reach the end of TSS without all level 20s, after having leveled to 20 in basic classes as well, then more power to you, but no one does that. However in previous, and the GC version of the game, I didn't have all characters at 20(a good number, but I also had people that were still the level they were when they joined), and if they were, it was the people I loved. In TSS, I could literally level every single person. This gives more variation to the game because you can therefore switch out a character at any given time, but then again, always using the same characters makes me more attached to them.

It's all preference. TSS really adds a lot more, like selecting classes to upgrade to as well as monster battles to level, but at the same time, this partially detracts form what I think, makes Fire Emblem so fun and engaging.

THE JACKEL

[Skyblade]

Shun, you played the easiest, and worst IMO fire emblem that came state side. If you have a gamecube or Wii, get Path of Radiance. It's truly amazing.

THE JACKAL

Unless I find an emulator that can emulate the game on my PC that ain't happening*. I won't be buying a Wii(I have given it the doubt long enough in my opinion, but I still find it to be a piece of ****); and the gamecube is also an inferior system in my mind. Even my FE:TSS that I have is being played emulated because I find the GBA to also be a piece of ****. So I just buy the games and play them on my laptop/PC(heck even my PS games I play on my PC, and I got a PS for free so I don't even have to emulate them).

And even then of course I have the issue of finding the game to buy. The only FE around here I saw was TSS. I guess I could always go online, but my lack of anything but money orders as payments hampers some of those places.



Anyways as for your worst... I haven't actually heard that about it. I keep hearing that it is better than the other GBA one[maybe not more difficult but 'better'].




*I have tried Dolphin but it runs too slow on anything I have tested it on.. and I won't buy a game if I can't play it.



Edit- Out of curiousity what is what makes it so much easier? Fewer enemies? Stronger Characters? Dumber AI?


Plotwise, character-wise, and difficulty-wise, the first of the GBA FE games is better (it also had some better music: A Knights Oath, Everything into the Dark, Campaign of Fire, Unshakeable Faith, and, above all else, Softly with Grace, were truly beautiful) and I liked it more than I did Path of Radiance. It's a bit slow to start, but by the time you reach the main story, it's awesome. And, since you're graded on your combat prowess (including how fast you clear missions, how much damage you do, how much experience you get, how many of your characters survive, and how much the total worth of all your items and gold is), and cannot do any side levelling, as the monster battles and towers let you do in TSS, the difficulty can ramp up quite a bit.

Also, have you ever tried the Shining Force series? If not, you might want to try Shining Force I and II. They are old Genesis games, and quite excellent tactical RPGs.

[ShunNakamura]

Hmm... I haven't really used the tower/ruins much in TSS. I mostly went straight through the story. And the game was/is still insanely easy if you play it smart. So many of the characters can just rip through the enemies with ease(I.E. Ross, Both Lords, etc).

Actually this play through I thought of maxing the use of the support system while still sticking to some of my favorites(Ross, Amelia and Forde are some of my favs for example). But this has made the play through, oddly enough, more difficult. I blame it on my lack of flyers. Few of my favorites have flyers as solid support options(only Tana). My first play through I made HEAVY use of the flyers available and made sure to give them plenty of kills so that they would keep leveled with everyone else. Oh, and the rescue ability rocks your socks(talk about an easy way to get Gilliam or Amelia to the front lines in large maps or across/around pesky terrain).


Anyways I guess I should look up and see if I can locate a copy of the earlier GBA one. Though I really dislike 'forced' classes(part of the reason FFT and FF5 are two of my favorite FF's) and that ilk.


As for The Shining Force I have played Shining Force Resurrection of the Dark Dragon. And ...... well I never did finish it, I just got bored after awhile. Story and gameplay didn't seem all that compelling(that or I got in one of my 'don't feel like gaming moods').

[ljkkjlcm9]

Anyways I guess I should look up and see if I can locate a copy of the earlier GBA one. Though I really dislike 'forced' classes(part of the reason FFT and FF5 are two of my favorite FF's) and that ilk.

well the thing about is, you just use the character that's the class you want. Personally, myrmidon/swordmaster has always been my favorite(Joshua/Marissa in TSS). I usually only have one or two flyers. For every class option(or almost every) there is a character in another game who becomes that, so that's who you use.

I must say that's one thing I never really used... support. I picked characters I liked, and if they had support sure I'd use it, but I never went out of my way for it.

THE JACKEL

[Skyblade]

As for The Shining Force I have played Shining Force Resurrection of the Dark Dragon. And ...... well I never did finish it, I just got bored after awhile. Story and gameplay didn't seem all that compelling(that or I got in one of my 'don't feel like gaming moods').


Resurrection of the Dark Dragon is a butchery of what was a truly awesome game. It was a terrible remake of the original Shining Force, and does not even deserve its name. Play the originals. They are much better. SF2 has a lighter feel, while SF1 is a much darker game, but they are both fun and engaging.

I loved the support system. Didn't use it for the stat boosts, just loved the conversations.

As for classes, I like Generals and Assassins for physical classes (my Assassin once did a 1 hit kill on Limstilla in the original. Assassins rock). I love most magic classes, and giving Sages light magic just makes them totally awesome. Oh, and I learned to like Wyvern Knights when Tana got a Pierce/Crit combo and 1 hit killed Lyon.

[ShunNakamura]

well the thing about is, you just use the character that's the class you want. Personally, myrmidon/swordmaster has always been my favorite(Joshua/Marissa in TSS). I usually only have one or two flyers. For every class option(or almost every) there is a character in another game who becomes that, so that's who you use.

My Issue is I like to use characters whose personalities I like, but I also want them to be a class I like. In other words I am a picky SOB. Not that that will stop me from playing a game... it'll just make me like it a bit less than if it had full class customization.

For example, I am a defense whore. So I almost always focus on using tanks. However, I find that in FE:TSS your choices of the tank class is a bit limited(2 normal generals and 1 secret general character correct?). Though I guess the evade classes(swordmaster and assassin?) also count as defense. This means Amelia = love; she has defense('Shield skill' and decent defense stat(21+ average I think)) and evasion(capped or nearly capped skill, speed, and luck). Yes, I am an Amelia fanboy... but she just so fits my style of play.



I must say that's one thing I never really used... support. I picked characters I liked, and if they had support sure I'd use it, but I never went out of my way for it.

THE JACKAL

I didn't use it either my first play through. I just figured it might make an interesting party if I had people linked through 'common bonds' or whatever is needed for them to be able to support one another. One trio I am supporting link is Amelia, Ewan, and Ross(Amelia/Ross = A, Ewan=B with both). They get some pretty sweet bonuses that way. And considering Ross even without supports is a freak(ok, maybe this game just has too many strong characters to be hard... good grief is Ross a monster).

However, the real challenging was setting up the supports with a party full of characters I like. That was a toughy. I am actually still short a few slots that I am not sure who to put in, the characters I like have a hard time fitting though I may be able to squeeze them in with some ingenuity.




Resurrection of the Dark Dragon is a butchery of what was a truly awesome game. It was a terrible remake of the original Shining Force, and does not even deserve its name. Play the originals. They are much better. SF2 has a lighter feel, while SF1 is a much darker game, but they are both fun and engaging.


Well I guess those will be some other games to look for when I get some extra cash(I'll also have to see if I can find good emulators).

I doubt it'll be on my high list though. Even assuming the quality was dropped, it would have to have fallen through the floor to make it a top notch game. Likely an enjoyable game, but A) one of the easiest tactics I have ever played and B) characters just didn't interest me on average. Actually I think I found that Cleric girl and that first mage that learns fire magic the most interesting characters(and it is sad that I can't even remember their names). And it is even sadder that the interesting characters weren't tanks like I usually prefer(though that tank fella was pretty cool, but I liked the two gals more). Generally that really bodes ill for a game for me(if I don't find many tanks to like my interest will fade FAST).




I loved the support system. Didn't use it for the stat boosts, just loved the conversations.


Truthfully that is what started on me trying to maximize my use of the support system. I want to 'pair' up the characters that I think might have interesting conversation. And I have read something on how A level can have endings? I didn't get any my first round through due to lack of utilizing the system much... however, I do recall reading somewhere about endings... at least that would be interesting though a bit of a hassle.



As for classes, I like Generals and Assassins for physical classes (my Assassin once did a 1 hit kill on Limstilla in the original. Assassins rock). I love most magic classes, and giving Sages light magic just makes them totally awesome. Oh, and I learned to like Wyvern Knights when Tana got a Pierce/Crit combo and 1 hit killed Lyon.


Something enjoyable about Assassins is that unless I am mistaken their ohko ignores the Generals defense ability(which really makes Amelia valuable imo since the first thing I would do is try and take out a general with someone who could 'silence', but Amelia is much harder to Crit, let alone silence, than Gilliam).





And as a last note since you two have quite obviously played more in the Tactical genre than I have may I ask if there are any of those games that give attacks of opportunity like in Age of Wonders(an attack of opportunity, if you don't know, is when you get a 'free' attack on an enemy that is foolish enough to run right past someone with the ability to attack in close courters. It certainly makes getting partially surrounded far far more dangerous since running away will give all those within close courter striking distance a free attack on you.

[ljkkjlcm9]

if I remember correctly, Amelia, Ross and Ewan were all trainee characters which were exclusive to this game. They required more work than the other characters but in the end were beastly. It's no surprise you like them the most because they literally did break the game and made it too easy. The sad part is if you play through with the brother and the sister, then a third time, you can promote them to Super Trainee classes which just make them even more absurd.

And in Fire Emblem, I am a speed whore. If you're slow, I don't like you. I MIGHT have 1 general, but often times I'd prefer a Paladin or a Swordmaster. They have good enough HP, and don't get hit often. I love going entire rounds getting hit maybe once or twice when like 12 enemies attack.

THE JACKEL

[ShunNakamura]

Actually compared with those in their class the trainees are not too over powered. Mostly they are similar but just have higher luck.

I.E.



_______________________________
|Amelia's Final average| General Max|
|-------------|------|------------ |
|--Hit Points--|--49--|-----60-----|
|--Strength-- |--23--|-----27-----|
|-----Skill---- |--26--|-----28---- |
|---Speed----|--25--|-----25-----|
|---Defense-- |--21- |-----29---- |
|-Resistance- |--13--|-----25---- |
|----Luck---- |--30--|-----30---- |
|----Move----|--05--|----------- |
|----Con----- |--11--|----------- |
|---------------------------------|
_______________________________
|Gilliam's Final average| General Max|
|-------------|------|------------ |
|--Hit Points--|--61--|-----60-----|
|--Strength-- |--27--|-----29-----|
|-----Skill---- |--20--|-----27---- |
|---Speed----|--17--|-----24-----|
|---Defense-- |--30- |-----30---- |
|-Resistance- |--13--|-----25---- |
|----Luck---- |--14--|-----30---- |
|----Move----|--05--|----------- |
|----Con----- |--16--|----------- |
|---------------------------------|

Thus in a comparison of the two. Amelia tanks not well at all. In addition despite the fact that she is more skilled and faster in the end she has to use weaker weapons than Gilliam due to much lower Constitution. The only area she is 'overpowered' in compared to Gilliam is her luck. Comparison wise Gilliam can score just as well if not higher due to the fact that he has higher str[4], defense[9], HP[11/12if you count the 1 above max he usually goes] and con[5]. She only is higher in Luck[16], Speed[8] and Skill[6]. Meaning Gilliam has a total of 29 stats higher than her(30 if you count that hp goes 1 over the cap, I don't), and she has a total of 30 stats higher than him. Seems pretty close to me. And Gilliam's are actually set more in line with what a general should have.

|HP.PW.SK.SP.DF.RS.LK|Description|
-----------------------------------
43.25.21.23.12.26.28 Ewan avg final
(60.28.30.26.21.25.30) Sage cap

37.31.18.24.11.23.25 Lute avg final
(60.30.28.26.21.25.30) Sage cap

Ewan is also in a boat where he isn't obviously better but is still quite usable. I think he is better suited as a druid which sort of leaves him with very little competition(similar to Ross as his beserker). Anyways Saleh also is comparable though weaker than the two above. And you just have so many applicable and usable sage canidates that it is hard to say Ewan pwns all the other sages. However, he is, imo, the best druid(he only has Knoll for competition and Knoll has no defense or luck, and doesn't come out too much higher in the other areas if at all).

Garcia and Ross compared as Warriors, Ross lacks 6 hp, 2 skill, and 3 con. All other of his stats(spd3,luk10,def1,res4) are other than str are in Ross's favor(str they both cap). So Ross lacks 11 points when compared to Garcia and Garcia lacks 18 when compared to Ross. Add in that I think Ross's is a bit better spread and that makes Ross the one trainee that is more powerful than his contemporaries. This is even more obvious if you take Ross on the Berserker path. Dolza, the other Berserker, can't stand against Ross at all.

Thus, what makes the Trainee's(particularly the warrior ones) so powerful is that they have monster luck stats. Without that they would likely be below average units.

Also the super Trainees aren't really all that powerful. First of all they gain no Con on the promotions so they are always taking hits in ability due to weapon weight. In addition the General is a more powerful class than the Super Recruit. The Berserker can top the Super Journeyman(both have extra crit) but the Berserker has caps better suited for Ross and much better Con. The Super Pupil is the one of them that can top the other upgrades, or so I am told. If I recall right it has some very nice caps compared to Druid and Sage, in addition he can use all forms of Magic if I recall right.



To end note the reason I like the raw defense is purely because in this game if you get unlucky you get to restart and I HATE that. Tink Master Gilliam is much more stable when it comes to lasting. I had Joshua get hit more than 3 times(two got to attack him one round, and I didn't count how many the next round, not likely to be more than 3 since I try to keep from being surrounded) in a row by opponents that had less than 20% accuracy on him. As you can guess he died and I got to restart. And it has happened many times like that. However, in other games I would agree with you since bad luck means you just have to revive(quickly revive if in FFT) the person and you don't have to restart a nearly half hour to hour long battle. Though of course the best tank is one that uses both evasion and pure defense. And of course that is why I like Amelia. She has enough defense to stand on the front without too much fear of being taken down in one unlucky critical. PLUS she has a lot of avoid and the shield skill which is just a nice combination for my style of play.

[ljkkjlcm9]

I'm not worried about weapons... I basically use iron weapons the entire game until the end.... I'm cheap and they get the job done....

Except in TSS, I controlled the monsters and stole their stuff. Now everyone can attack at range, without worrying about breaking weapons... just turn battle animation off!

Oh, and I manipulate levels. badly. Especially in PoR, not so much in TSS, because I just bought stat boosts anyways. My main team is completely maxed anyways.

THE JACKEL