So what's really goin on w/ Fran & Balthier

[Bolivar]

Spoilers?



really. throughout the game it seems like there's an unsaid romantic tension between them, and as the game goes further on it looks like they care about eachother more than they're letting on. Twice they have the cliche "I'M NOT LEAVING WITHOUT YOU!!!" moment, and the picture at the ending credits suggests they could now be a couple.

So what's the deal. Can an adult man and woman travel together and never get busy? Do you believe in interracial relationships?

I think it's possible that the player is never let on that Fran is carrying Balthier's child, and maybe even further possible that this hume/veira (vume? heira?) is St. Ajora.... alright, that's probably a stretch, but discuss.

[Enjolras]

Haha I think it's more of an interspecies relationship, but as there don't seem to be any male viera, I don't know how they'd do it any other way...

I don't think there's so much romantic tension as a romantic connection between them the whole story. They seem to have an understanding which could come from a partnership. On the other hand, they never seem to argue, which could possibly be a point against that idea (depending on how cynical you are about relationships).

[Dynast-Kid]

Spoilers?



really. throughout the game it seems like there's an unsaid romantic tension between them, and as the game goes further on it looks like they care about eachother more than they're letting on. Twice they have the cliche "I'M NOT LEAVING WITHOUT YOU!!!" moment, and the picture at the ending credits suggests they could now be a couple.


I think the developers intentionally left it open to player discretion as to whether or not Fran and Balthier were a romantic couple. Personally, i'm still in the grey area as to whether they were a couple or not.



So what's the deal. Can an adult man and woman travel together and never get busy? Do you believe in interracial relationships?

A woman and man don't have to get busy when traveling together. I mean, what if the guy was gay!?xD But for serious, I think Fran and Balthy did knock boots. I mean, what else is there to do on such a small airship with two attractive pilots!xD I'm such a nut...

As for the interracial relationship thing, I think they're perfectly acceptable. Mostly because of my mixed race heritage, and the fact that i've been in a complicated emotional relationship with someone of another race. :Oo:



I think it's possible that the player is never let on that Fran is carrying Balthier's child, and maybe even further possible that this hume/veira (vume? heira?) is St. Ajora.... alright, that's probably a stretch, but discuss.

omfgz fran izz preggorz lolz!!!!1!!!11!11!@@!11

How could their child be St. Ajora? Didn't he/she live like, 500 hundreds year after FFXII? But if you take into account the longevity of the Viera...I guess it's possible.

[PeneloRatsbane]

Veira and Humes can marry and have kids so its okay for them to be together,
There are times when u wonder if there is something more going on, i think its implied.
But whether or not they are romantically involved or not i think it would be wrong for someone to come between them, they are an awesome duo and work best as a pair.
I think that revenant wings pretty much confirms that Fran has feelings for Balthier, and i'm sure he resipricates, he is v. protective of her and does flirt with her,

[LunarWeaver]

The developers just wanted Uematsu's song to make at least a little sense.

[chrystalline]

While I still believe there is no real romance in FFXII. I do think though the pairings are implied. If you've done the Viera dating quest, the NPC has hinted that he'll never thought it'd be ok to date a viera until he saw the sky pirate and his viera partner. It also hints of Vaan and Penelo. Ashe and Basch is implied at the ending with Penelo saying Ashe misses Basch.

In RW, you see more of these pairings.

[Bolivar]

While I still believe there is no real romance in FFXII. I do think though the pairings are implied. If you've done the Viera dating quest, the NPC has hinted that he'll never thought it'd be ok to date a viera until he saw the sky pirate and his viera partner. It also hints of Vaan and Penelo. Ashe and Basch is implied at the ending with Penelo saying Ashe misses Basch.

In RW, you see more of these pairings.

I really wanna play that game, it'll be interesting to see how the the interactions play out.

And I didn't realize the absence of a love story in XII. interesting, and another FF departure lol. I guess Fran/Balthier is the closest thing, other than Ashe's thoughts about her dead husband :( (creepy)

[Dr. Acula]

There's a tiny little Ashe/Balthier/Fran love triangle in there somewhere.

[chrystalline]

There's a tiny little Ashe/Balthier/Fran love triangle in there somewhere.

I guess people do put a lot of stock at the pre-ending FMV of Ashe shouting for Balthier. You take that out and people wouldn't even think of this. I personally just hate this idea. See, one year after, when Balthier gets the Strahl back and Ashe her ring, she hardly had any reaction when she got it.

IF she had major feelings for him, do you think she would have showed more emotion when she got her ring back? I'm sure everyone in the party thought they died. That is proof that her "love" is alive. She didn't even look shocked. Compare this to when she first saw Rasler's "ghost".

IF he had feelings for her, don't you think he would return the ring himself rather than leave it to Vaan? Instead, he leaves Vaan a note to meet him in Bervenia, does that mean Balthier really likes Vaan all along?

See, this love triangle just fails miserably :p .

[Big D]

Balthier and Fran are already one of my favourite FF couples. Their interactions and banter, their subtle affections but strong professionalism... just a really potent, often adorable, chemistry.
Those two were easily my favourite characters in the game, and their scenes together were often so warm without being overtly romantic. Like a lot of the interpersonal relationships in the game, it was played out subtly rather than overtly, so the little things and fleeting moments were that much more memorable - like the scene at the top of the Pharos at Ridoranna, when Fran touches Balthier's cheek while imploring him to leave her there.

I think it's fairly clear that Ashe becomes fond of Balthier during the story, despite her initial exasperation with him, but it's unclear whether there's anything romantic in it. It's entirely possible, but she's been through a hell of a lot and wouldn't get all giddy with infatuation while fighting for the survival of her kingdom. Anyway, Balthier and Fran are just too obviously in love, so she'd never have a chance.In RW, you see more of these pairings.So, the main characters of FFXII return in Revenant Wings? That's awesome, if so. It'd be great to get more insight into them, since FFXII's storytelling kept that at a certain distance.

...What's the 'Viera dating quest'?

[chrystalline]

The viera dating quest: Talk to the Wandering Viera in the Rabanastre Southgate. You can then set her up with the Lovestruck Man in the South Plaza.



I think it's fairly clear that Ashe becomes fond of Balthier during the story, despite her initial exasperation with him, but it's unclear whether there's anything romantic in it. It's entirely possible, but she's been through a hell of a lot and wouldn't get all giddy with infatuation while fighting for the survival of her kingdom. Anyway, Balthier and Fran are just too obviously in love, so she'd never have a chance.


Then why did he tried to flirt with Ashe in RW then? Ashe was having none of it that's why I'm convinced she doesn't have any feelings for Balthier. There's a lot of hints that Fran and Balthier are a couple but in love? Balthier is only in love with himself. (Sorry can't stand the guy.)

[PeneloRatsbane]

Balthier is a ladies man, he flirts with Penelo, Ashe and Fran. by putting that bit in it seems that him and ashe no longer really care about each other that much.
She's not bothered by his flirting and he just shrugs when she walks off as if to say "whatever", if they had anything between them its long gone.
Balthier flirts, thats just his way. But he is only genuinely affectionate to Fran. he bites Vaan's head of for questioning her, one of the kids says he got angry when the kid bumped into Fran, he says she's special. that bloke that gets a date with a veira got the idea from seeing them together, He looked more upset by her hinting to him to leave her behind at pharos than he did when his own father died, and i read somewhere that in revenant wings you find out that he's keeps giving her flowers and he takes her on the strahl to look at the stars.
I think its clear that SHE loves him and that under all his issues and when he's grown up a bit he'll admit that he loves her.

[chrystalline]

Why is it ok for a man to flirt around when he's obviously in a relationship? He's just called a ladies man. But turn this the other way around and the woman does the flirting, she's called a slut. As a girl, I find it sad. :(

Anyway, I'm glad some people could romanticize Balthier but meh, to me he's just a self-absorbed prick who's in love with himself.

[Big D]

I never found Balthier to be 'flirty' in a romantic sense - I mean, it's not like tries to ingratiate himself with the women in order to win their affections; he certainly never tries to seduce anyone. He definitely lays on the charm, though, which seems to stem in part from his natural charisma and sophistication, and in part from the bluff showmanship he uses to create the 'dashing sky pirate' image he presented to the world to hide his past and his various agonies. He's definitely aware of his limitations, rather than thinking excessively highly of himself; I reckon it's obvious to him that his act doesn't really fool anyone who's come to know him.

Ashe, for her part, probably just cares about Balthier as a friend and companion, someone who helped her out - despite his own better judgment, apparently - when no-one else would or could. His apparent sacrifice is what saved Rabanastre, after all; everyone who knew Fran and Balthier was affected by what they did.

Still, my earlier point remains: Balthier/Fran otp, imho.

[rubah]

Actually the ashe/fran/balthier thing is more than the second to last fmv. During the game when ashe and balthier have all their dialog discussing him being the leading man, there was definitely something there.

And if you want to relate it to star wars, you could always have vaan=luke balthier=han ashe=leia :D but that leaves poor fran out in the cold.

[Formalhaut]

He's just called a ladies man. But turn this the other way around and the woman does the flirting, she's called a slut. As a girl, I find it sad. :(

As a boy, I also find it quite sad :(

[PeneloRatsbane]

I don't, you make who you are in this world, I won't ever go around feeling sorry for the way things are, its why you have to challenge stereotypes. I'm not gunna boohoo about the injustices of this world cos there is too may to count.
Balthier is Balthier, he is charming but he would never do anything to hurt Fran, he respects her as an equal. And she is old enough and mature enough to deal with him, none of the others could handle Balthier the way Fran can.
If he were with Ashe it would just end up in a useless mess, not to mention v. boring.

[Renmiri]

A picture is worth a thousand words... Just look at where Balthier's hand is

http://ffproject.net/forumwiki/images/VTS_01_1_0019.jpg

[Bolivar]

A picture is worth a thousand words... Just look at where Balthier's hand is

http://ffproject.net/forumwiki/images/VTS_01_1_0019.jpg

LOL that's the pic at the end i was talking about. it looks like he's trying to get to second moreso than he's putting his arm around her!

[f f freak]

She's also pinching his hand. I personally prefer the Ashe/Balthier pairing though I haven't completed the game so I don't know.

And if you want to relate it to star wars, you could always have vaan=luke balthier=han ashe=leia but that leaves poor fran out in the cold.
Well if you want to relate it to star wars it would be, IMO, Vaan=Luke, Balthier=Han, Ashe=Leia and Fran=Chewbacca. Penelo and Basch don't really fit into it I don't think.

[PeneloRatsbane]

she is pinching his hand, but shes also leaning in against him. she wants the hug but is keeping him in line by not allowing him to grope her. illustrating my point about her knowing how to handle him. You don't just let him handle the goods, he's gotta earn it.
and all this star wars stuff, yeah we know, but u can do it with a lot of stuff. they did it with POTC as well.

[Renmiri]

Well if you want to relate it to star wars it would be, IMO, Vaan=Luke, Balthier=Han, Ashe=Leia and Fran=Chewbacca. Penelo and Basch don't really fit into it I don't think.

Penelo = C3P0 only more useless
Basch = R2D2 only cutter :tongue:

Ba'Ganman = Boba Fet
Vayne = Palpatine
Gabranth = Vader
Reddas = Lando
:D

[Swan]

..and Larsa could be Yoda...or not.

There is pretty much absolutely nothing going on between Fran and Baltheir. I believe they are great friends, but really nothing more. Think of their child, a little human child with rabbit ears.

Ashe and Baltheir seems a better pair.

DEATH TO VAAN! :mad2:

[PeneloRatsbane]

Have you completed the game yet?
cos Ashe and Balthier pairing is pretty much dead by the last lil bit
You see i think if u let someone think ur dead for a year and then don't
bother to return there ring to them by yourself and instead you go cavorting off with your beautiful partner and then hardly speak to them when you do meet them again that ur not really that interested in them. oh and the fact that hes a pirate and she's going to be queen and this is a serious game where that actually wouldn't work.
If balthier was Ffamran Bunanza again he could go out with Ashe. But he's not bothered, he wants to be balthier the sky pirate. And Ashe wouldn't give up being queen or tarnish her reputation in that way.
Plus it is Clear that Fran likes Balthier in a more than a friend way, why should she get hurt? Ashe has her kingdom to rule. Fran has been rejected by her family and exciled from her home, Balthier is all she has. it would be too sad for them to be apart.
oh and Viera and Humes can have children, the sorta villian in Revenant wings is a decendant of a Hume and Veira match.

[rubah]

I'd actually have Vossler as Lando, what with the betraying etc.

Vayne is Vader because he's the big frontman, while palpatine is whatever that weird dude was that always floated around behind him. Man I cannot remember his name right now! But he's the one that was behind the whole thing from the start, but you don't find out about it until the end.

[Renmiri]

Yeah, Vayne is more like Vader except he doesn't turn into good guy. Good point on Lando.

[PeneloRatsbane]

Star wars, smar wars, what about the topic! FFS lol

[rubah]

Hey it's cool, a mod approved it

[Ashley Schovitz]

I don't even see how Fran and Balthier could have a child, viera don't reproduce since they're born from the wood.

[Renmiri]

Revenant wings has the Feol Viera, descendants of a hume and a Viera

[chrystalline]

Revenant wings has the Feol Viera, descendants of a hume and a Viera

That's not true at all. Feolthanos isn't hume, he's aegyl. Their descendants didn't have wings though, that's why he left the Beirouge for them, which is what you see as Vaan's ship.

There is a relationship between a hume and a viera that is central to the story though, so in Ivalice a hume and a viera relationship is entirely possible.

[Renmiri]

Revenant wings has the Feol Viera, descendants of a hume and a Viera

That's not true at all. Feolthanos isn't hume, he's aegyl. Their descendants didn't have wings though, that's why he left the Beirouge for them, which is what you see as Vaan's ship.

Oh ?

My apologies, I got confused. I thought the Aegyl were Humes.

[Dynast-Kid]

Revenant wings has the Feol Viera, descendants of a hume and a Viera

That's not true at all. Feolthanos isn't hume, he's aegyl. Their descendants didn't have wings though, that's why he left the Beirouge for them, which is what you see as Vaan's ship.

Oh ?

My apologies, I got confused. I thought the Aegyl were Humes.

Thye pretty much are. They just have wings and a much shorter lifespan.

[chrystalline]

You could say that to Vieras as well. They just have longer ears and have a longer lifespan. teehee :D

I'm pretty sure Feolthanos was described as an aegyl rather than a hume. If i'm mistaken then I apologise in advance ;)

[PeneloRatsbane]

Hey it's cool, a mod approved it
tis not the point, its just annoying is all.

yeah veira hume relationships are accepted in ivalice and all that so its not a problem.
I think if anything is an issue it would be that Balthier needs to move forward with his life, he's had a bad time family wise, but he seems to be dealing with that in the end credits of Revenant wings

[Dr. Acula]

For some reason, I prefer the Ashe/Balthier pairing, although there is much more evidence to support the Balthier/Fran couple and I think it's far more likely (by that I mean that Ashe/Balthier is damn near impossible:D ) that they'd get together.
But I'll finish the game first (I'm still stuck in Pharos Lighthouse, trying to beat Famfrit:rolleyes2 ) then I'll see if I've changed my views.

[PeneloRatsbane]

oh if ur in the Pharos lighthouse trying to beat Ffamrit the your about to get to a very sweet bit, don't read carry on battling to see the bit i mean, but for anyone else

after the battle Fran collapses and Balthier goes to sit with her, she says in short that he has to get out quick before the sun cryst bursts, and she looks absolutely adorable, she reaches out to touch his face with all lovey eyes and he takes her hand and says she has to hold on, its cute it shows Fran's vulnerable side

[No.78]

Balthier and Fran are fuckbuddies.

[Bolivar]

playing through the game again i'm getting the strong feeling that Vaan and Ashe is actually the correct pairing.

spoilers?

but yeah, you got the whole thing of her jumping into his arms, their eyes met for a second there. in raithwall's tomb, i think Fran or Basch is explaining something to Penelo and she says "i'll remember that. can't expect vaan to keep track of these things" and she looks over at him talking to Ashe.

Also, after the sinking of the 8th fleet, Ashe is standing at Nabrudis, holding the dawn shard, looking at Rasler, then he vanishes and she sees Vaan step out and looking at her. And they were the only ones shown there. Did they go there alone?

I'm guessing not because in the next scene they're acting normal, but when they all leave, and Balthier asks Vaan "what is it you're looking for?", and I know everyone brings this up as a reason why vaan has no reason to be there, i think it's implied that he has feelings for Ashe and there to be with her, Balthier asks it kinda snotty like he already knows the answer and Vaan's confusion seems more like embarrassment.

I think him and Penelo got more of a brother/sister relationship. i think when he goes through the adolescent/sky pirate thing he'll return to defend Dalmasca and Ashe, and basically be her knight. Which'll lead us to the final showdown between Vaan and Basch (judge master)!

"No, Vaan. I am your father..." LOL j/p. or not, we'll have to see :)

[PeneloRatsbane]

I just think Ashe is good friends with Vaan, she was friends with Balthier as well but i think they grew apart to far. She still seems to be good friends with Vaan in Revenant wings, where as she's not really close to Balthier any more.
I wanted Ashe and Vaan I had to admit, but i warmed to Penelo in the end, she's very caring and mature for her age and her and Vaan really do seem to be a done deal.
Vaan and Penelo also seem to be a bit like Balthier and Fran's proteges, so its fitting that they get together.
I'd like to see Ashe/Basch get confirmed but if thats to crack then for Ashe to marry Al Cid and for them both to start fixing the problems in ivalice.

[Dynast-Kid]

I'd like to see Ashe/Basch get confirmed but if thats to crack then for Ashe to marry Al Cid and for them both to start fixing the problems in ivalice.

Why do I like that idea?

[PeneloRatsbane]

Cos it makes sence and Al Cid is a good guy really, he can just come off as a bit cliche.
lol
Ashe could probably take him down a few pegs and he could probably get her to loosen up a bit, she seemed to have a nice time when she talks about her trip to ambervale in revenant wings
so why not.

[chrystalline]

Al-Cid is a douche. :p

I still think it'll be Ashe and Basch if they're going to make another sequel (maybe in PS3, who knows?) after seeing how close they were in RW.

[Big D]

Al-Cid is most most certainly a douche where women are concerned, but he's a canny politician and a pragmatic, peace-oriented ruler. If he just acted a bit more like a gentleman and less like a sleaze, he'd be a better guy - and I reckon Ashe could have him whipped pretty quickly:p

[PeneloRatsbane]

Al-Cid is most most certainly a douche where women are concerned, but he's a canny politician and a pragmatic, peace-oriented ruler. If he just acted a bit more like a gentleman and less like a sleaze, he'd be a better guy - and I reckon Ashe could have him whipped pretty quickly:p

yeah i agree, she'd soon have him under control.
But it does seem that Ashe and Basch are pretty close with each other. not Fran and Balthier close, or even Vaan and Penelo Close, but still pretty tight.

[Bolivar]

Man I gotta get Revenant Wings when it comes out. My DS needs repair though :(

I don't know about Ashe and Al-Cid. He comes off as a womanizer, as self-centered and possibly a polygamist (sp?) with his illustration in the credits. I see Ashe as too strong a woman to fall for some douche like that.

[PeneloRatsbane]

yeah thats the thing that bugs me about Al Cid, but hes young, maybe he could grow out of it. I prefer Ashe/Basch tho,
BUt who says Ashe even needs to be paired up. I like her when she's being her independant self, pairing her up might wreck that part of her personality.
You sorta feel that Penelo and Fran already have feelings for their partners and so like it makes u want them to get with them.

[chrystalline]

For those curious about Ashe and Basch's relationship in Revenant Wings, here is the Japanese trailer:

YouTube - Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings (Gameplay Trailer 7) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h743esD6L0)

It seems SE is hinting at them in the trailer. And I found this screenshot, don't look if you haven't finished FFXII!


SPOILER WARNING!!!






http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k224/Diorelli/ashebasch3.jpg

Just "friends"? Just "knight-queen" ? You decide. :love:

If this is too spoilery, let me know and I'll edit the attached img to a URL link instead. ;)

[PeneloRatsbane]

aww thats cute, i haven't got to tht bit yet. cos i'm stuck on this level with a monster thats really big on it.

I have a revenant wings pictures of fran and balthier, but it from the end so spoiler warning

franbalthierrevenant.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o297/Steffrox/?action=view&current=franbalthierrevenant.jpg)

I like they way they look, its cute new style for them. i think its on the dual screen so ones at the top and ones at the bottom.

[Hambone]

They're secret agents sent by Lord Voldemort (omg I said his effing name!) to fill the skies with chaos! Together, they morph into...Balthifran! :bigsmile:

[Bolivar]

aww man revenant wings is lookin real good