PDA

View Full Version : I'm Thinking of Selling My Soul to the Digital Devil...



Wolf Kanno
07-13-2007, 07:10 AM
So after years of debating and finally getting a good computer as well as a good paying job; I've begun once again to consider picking up this game. My problem has always been the fact that I'm not much of an MMO fan but I can also see the draw.

So how is the game actually? Is the community friendly? Is it too late with SE plans to make a new MMO? How's the storyline?

Basically, what could I look forward too and what should I watch out for? I would like as much information as you can give me please.

Thank you ahead of time for any feedback. ;)

Siegfried
07-13-2007, 07:18 AM
IMHO, everything is great and I dont think it is quite ready to roll over considering the new expansion pack...

One concern is very deadly about the game though...That is...addiction...(and elitism but hey, that comes with the territory)

Wolf Kanno
07-13-2007, 07:22 AM
IMHO, everything is great and I dont think it is quite ready to roll over considering the new expansion pack...

One concern is very deadly about the game though...That is...addiction...(and elitism but hey, that comes with the territory)


Eletism I can handle, addiction kinda worries me. Most of my friends are WoW addicts and that... is just plain damn scary... One of them wears a shirt that reminds him to eat real food, not just the in-game type;)

I noticed the expansion so I guess the series may have some more life to it. That's good to hear.

Markus. D
07-13-2007, 07:49 AM
So how is the game actually? Is the community friendly? Is it too late with SE plans to make a new MMO? How's the storyline?

Basically, what could I look forward too and what should I watch out for? I would like as much information as you can give me please.

Thank you ahead of time for any feedback. ;)

The community is friendly, but absolutely awful if you approach them wrong when starting out.

The storyline (haven't beaten any of the game/expansion storylines) is pretty good IMO so far, The most standing out one so far is Chains of Promathia by a long shot.

You have an entire world to look forward to as soon as you finally get somewhere Grinding... ovcourse The Gameplay is rather spectacular... there is at least 1 class to suit all player types (Most diverse transition are Melee to mage or vise versa)... takes awhile to get use to though.

There is also alot that may tick you off about this game in the beginning *slaps FFXI* still is very awesome.

Germ Hamee
07-13-2007, 11:44 AM
The community, for the most part, is great. There's still plenty of people to play with, even at lower levels, and there's a lot of high leveled people more than happy to help you out.

The biggest drawback to this game is how incredibly slow it is. It takes forever to progress anywhere, and there's so many distractions to slow you down even more. It will be a long time before you get to see any of the more substantial cutscenes. At least, that's the case for me. If you only have the time to play a few times a week, it's going to feel like you're going nowhere.

But it's worth it if you have time you're willing to devote to it. A lot of time. If not, I would advise against playing it at all. The only reason I keep chugging along is because of the amount of work I've already put into it.

Yeargdribble
07-13-2007, 02:03 PM
I think FFXI is potentially far more addictive than WoW for various reasons, though that's coming from a pretty hardcore endgame perspective. If you're worried about addiction then I'd stay far far away, but who can honestly resist, right?

The game takes time. It takes lots of time. Too play competently you'll need at least 3 hour blocks regularly. You pretty much can't get XP unless you have a significant amount of time to devote to a group. Rudely leaving often, shortly and suddenly will tarnish your reputation and make the experience less enjoyable.

The story-line is awesome, though you won't even begin to scratch the surface of it until you've got a job at 75. Getting a job to 75 will take most people well over a year and there are many who've been play for 2 or 3 without even one level 75 job.

On the bright side, you'll scarcely run out of things to do. Unlike most MMOs where you pick one job/race combo, in FFXI you pick one of 5 races and can level every single job (of 18... soon to be more) to 75.

There are a handful of painful quirks about the game. The learning curve is sharp. You MUST group to accomplish anything. I mean if you want to blow your nose you'd better put up your flag and look for a group to do so. There are less people in the middle range levels (37-70) than there once were. Certain jobs get crap to no invites and in those level ranges are impossibly slow. I recall LFG for many consecutive days in 6 hour blocks on both Thief and Dragoon with no invites. Even if you're a good party builder there's always going to be a lack of either healers or tanks.

Storage is a huge concern. With playing multiple jobs you'll be fighting it a lot. You'll end up having to have mules. SE requires you to pay a buck for each additional character. While some people manage to get away without having many (any?), most of them suffer as a result. Even if you have only one job, if you want to play it to the fullest you'll need level capped gear for 30, 50, 60, and maybe even 70, with several full sets for level 75 in various situations. You'll find yourself sending it back and forth between mules often.... 8 pieces at a time, not counting the Rare/Ex stuff you can't send which you have to find a place for.

Money is also a huge issue. It's not easy to make. If there's a reasonable way to make money... RMT OWN IT! They monopolize pretty much everything. The crafting system is in a state of utter brokenness. SE has started fighting back against RMT and cheaters (after years of apathy), which is great, but in so doing they have set the economy into a free fall of deflation as they take huge amounts of currency out of the economy each month.

You'll find that you'll have to take regular breaks from 'playing' the game to make money and deal with other junk. This is not a very casual friendly game and the amount of elitism is pretty high. It really hits hard at the top ends of the game as well. Speaking of, the game is pretty high-level centered and much less time (development-wise) is dedicated to low-mid level content.

You won't see even a fraction of all of the awesome things the game has to offer for well over a year. I played for 3 years with a play time of well over 300 days. I'm pretty much doomed to come back as there is just a certain flavor that FFXI has, despite the numerous flaws, that just draw me and my wife in.

Wolf Kanno
07-14-2007, 12:42 AM
I'm afraid I don't have much time to give a proper response I'm afraid. I need to get ready for work so I'll keep this brief.

First I would like to thank all of you for your feedback!:) It's been quite informative and has been helping me come to a desicion. I like what I've been hearing but I have a few more questions I need answered. I'll need to post that later though.

I still would love more feedback from anyone as well if you remember anything new you wish to add.;)

Thank you once again.:mog:

f f freak
07-14-2007, 01:09 AM
I too have been thinking about getting this game for a long time. I was wondering if anyone could tell me the Pros and Cons of White Mages.

Wolf Kanno
07-14-2007, 07:42 AM
So how is the game actually? Is the community friendly? Is it too late with SE plans to make a new MMO? How's the storyline?

Basically, what could I look forward too and what should I watch out for? I would like as much information as you can give me please.

Thank you ahead of time for any feedback. ;)

The community is friendly, but absolutely awful if you approach them wrong when starting out.

The storyline (haven't beaten any of the game/expansion storylines) is pretty good IMO so far, The most standing out one so far is Chains of Promathia by a long shot.

You have an entire world to look forward to as soon as you finally get somewhere Grinding... ovcourse The Gameplay is rather spectacular... there is at least 1 class to suit all player types (Most diverse transition are Melee to mage or vise versa)... takes awhile to get use to though.

There is also alot that may tick you off about this game in the beginning *slaps FFXI* still is very awesome.

What's the wrong way? Besides a the points Yeargdribble mentioned as well as asking annoying questions that the game has easy access to the answers for. I know that begging for things like equipment and gil are a no-no. Are there any others?


The community, for the most part, is great. There's still plenty of people to play with, even at lower levels, and there's a lot of high leveled people more than happy to help you out.

The biggest drawback to this game is how incredibly slow it is. It takes forever to progress anywhere, and there's so many distractions to slow you down even more. It will be a long time before you get to see any of the more substantial cutscenes. At least, that's the case for me. If you only have the time to play a few times a week, it's going to feel like you're going nowhere.

But it's worth it if you have time you're willing to devote to it. A lot of time. If not, I would advise against playing it at all. The only reason I keep chugging along is because of the amount of work I've already put into it.

I'm not the type to do anything half hearted, and I'm pretty patient, so I doubt the slow start will bother me as long as I actually have something to do (and yes I do consider grinding to be something to do:) ) But thank you for the warning. I understand that most MMO's suffer from these type of issues.


I think FFXI is potentially far more addictive than WoW for various reasons, though that's coming from a pretty hardcore endgame perspective. If you're worried about addiction then I'd stay far far away, but who can honestly resist, right?

I've seen quite abit of WoW and can tell it's not really my type of game. I generally hate traditional high fantasy. I also promised myself that if I ever did play an MMO, it would be FFXI. Happy to hear that the endgame parts is where the game begins to really shine.



The game takes time. It takes lots of time. Too play competently you'll need at least 3 hour blocks regularly. You pretty much can't get XP unless you have a significant amount of time to devote to a group. Rudely leaving often, shortly and suddenly will tarnish your reputation and make the experience less enjoyable.


That shouldn't be too much of a problem. If I really begin to enjoy the game, I find it's easy to find time for it. I understand the issues of grinding all too well.



The story-line is awesome, though you won't even begin to scratch the surface of it until you've got a job at 75. Getting a job to 75 will take most people well over a year and there are many who've been play for 2 or 3 without even one level 75 job.

On the bright side, you'll scarcely run out of things to do. Unlike most MMOs where you pick one job/race combo, in FFXI you pick one of 5 races and can level every single job (of 18... soon to be more) to 75.


Sounds good, I do like the fact you switch out job classes. I can't say the races really impress me too much I'm afraid (still angry that my moogles are not options:( ) The job classes should be quite nice to play as. Do you get access to all of them from the start or do you need to unlock them through quests? I thought I heard something about this, I'm curious to know.



There are a handful of painful quirks about the game. The learning curve is sharp. You MUST group to accomplish anything. I mean if you want to blow your nose you'd better put up your flag and look for a group to do so. There are less people in the middle range levels (37-70) than there once were. Certain jobs get crap to no invites and in those level ranges are impossibly slow. I recall LFG for many consecutive days in 6 hour blocks on both Thief and Dragoon with no invites. Even if you're a good party builder there's always going to be a lack of either healers or tanks.


Well the games theme was "companionship" so I'm not surprised that the game stresses working together. Here's where my Noob questions are really going to start coming out.

I must confess that I've never played an MMORPG before so if I pick this up it will truly be an eye opening experience. But I am not completely ignorant to how they work but their are some things I'm really clueless about so bear with me, please.:D

Is joining a group easy? How about Guilds? Will I need to really know some people going in or is it set up that may at times be meeting new people all the time?


Storage is a huge concern. With playing multiple jobs you'll be fighting it a lot. You'll end up having to have mules. SE requires you to pay a buck for each additional character. While some people manage to get away without having many (any?), most of them suffer as a result. Even if you have only one job, if you want to play it to the fullest you'll need level capped gear for 30, 50, 60, and maybe even 70, with several full sets for level 75 in various situations. You'll find yourself sending it back and forth between mules often.... 8 pieces at a time, not counting the Rare/Ex stuff you can't send which you have to find a place for.

Sounds normal but I'm certain I would have to see it first hand to understand how bad it truly is. How is the second character/account work? I've heard only some pieces of it and must say it sounds kinda like a rip off. I would love some more elaboration please.:love:



Money is also a huge issue. It's not easy to make. If there's a reasonable way to make money... RMT OWN IT! They monopolize pretty much everything. The crafting system is in a state of utter brokenness. SE has started fighting back against RMT and cheaters (after years of apathy), which is great, but in so doing they have set the economy into a free fall of deflation as they take huge amounts of currency out of the economy each month.


Who are the RMT? How important is money in the game? Also, how well does SE actually respond to the community?


You'll find that you'll have to take regular breaks from 'playing' the game to make money and deal with other junk. This is not a very casual friendly game and the amount of elitism is pretty high. It really hits hard at the top ends of the game as well. Speaking of, the game is pretty high-level centered and much less time (development-wise) is dedicated to low-mid level content.

You won't see even a fraction of all of the awesome things the game has to offer for well over a year. I played for 3 years with a play time of well over 300 days. I'm pretty much doomed to come back as there is just a certain flavor that FFXI has, despite the numerous flaws, that just draw me and my wife in.

Good, I prefer a challenge and I'm not keen on anything geared towards a casual fan, so this is pretty promising. Elitism doesn't really bother me too much but thank you all for the heads up. I like games that promise results and rewards you for hard work and effort.

Thank you all for your feedback and I really appreciate your honesty in telling me about the cons as well as the games pros. Just a few more questions to trouble you with...

I unfortunately have a 56k connection. Besides downloading all the patches, how much is this going to be a problem?

Are the job classes pretty balanced or are some classes extremely overpowered while others have been nerfed to near obsoletion?

What terms and lingo do I need to know to get around easier (if the forum already has a place for this information just say so and I'll visit it.)

Anything else I should know, remember to consider that this may be my first MMO, so even trivial things might be important.

Thank you all for answering my questions:)

Markus. D
07-14-2007, 10:46 AM
What's the wrong way? Besides a the points Yeargdribble mentioned as well as asking annoying questions that the game has easy access to the answers for. I know that begging for things like equipment and gil are a no-no. Are there any others?

Just general meanie-ness to others ^^, Most folk in-game are definetly willing to help you get started and give you some tips on things you will have to be prepared for in future (well, the folk that know the term "We all have to start somewhere").


Sounds good, I do like the fact you switch out job classes. I can't say the races really impress me too much I'm afraid (still angry that my moogles are not options ) The job classes should be quite nice to play as. Do you get access to all of them from the start or do you need to unlock them through quests? I thought I heard something about this, I'm curious to know.

The advanced jobs (Bard, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, Ninja, Puppetmaster, Samurai, Beastmaster, Corsair, Dragoon, Paladin, Ranger and Summoner) all have some extremely tricky quests (well... most of them, some quick and others tedious), you have choice to 6 classes when you start (Warrior, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage and Redmage) but don't rule them out as useless as most (if not ALL) starting classes can hold there own (In other words... all classes have unique abilities that make them a core need for different situations, Mage jobs are loved in most parties and so is the Bard).


Who are the RMT? How important is money in the game? Also, how well does SE actually respond to the community?

Nasty nasty people called Real Money Traders... unfortunately you will need ALOT of money (Bards only need a few million) and they GM quite strictly when it comes to botting, RTM etc.


Are the job classes pretty balanced or are some classes extremely overpowered while others have been nerfed to near obsoletion?

All classes are fairly balanced at most times, there are some ovcourse overpowered classes (Blue Mage >_____> among a couple of others) and some the community shun completely for past nerfs (despite they are still very useful).

Yeargdribble
07-14-2007, 05:29 PM
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/AF.jpg


What's the wrong way? Besides a the points Yeargdribble mentioned as well as asking annoying questions that the game has easy access to the answers for. I know that begging for things like equipment and gil are a no-no. Are there any others?

It is best to do some research or ask some advice on a how a job works before actually using it in a party situation. As the game grows older, the tolerance for ignorance is lower. That's one of the worst elitism issues. Always be ready to listen to advice from those in a party.

There are certain things that may or may not occur to you about party dynamics that you can often only get from experience. Understanding how not to pull hate is a big deal. Knowing not to us AoE (area of effect; multi-target) spells pretty much ever is important. Knowing how to handle links or adds. If you decide to play and have a job you plan to play, feel free to ask for advice and I'm sure people here would be glad to give you a primer.



I'm not the type to do anything half hearted, and I'm pretty patient,

You sound a lot like me. Just remember this is a blessing and a curse. You'll garner respect for doing your best, but the game can take a lot of time and eat away at your life if you're this type of person.



I've seen quite abit of WoW and can tell it's not really my type of game. I generally hate traditional high fantasy. I also promised myself that if I ever did play an MMO, it would be FFXI. Happy to hear that the endgame parts is where the game begins to really shine.

Just keep in mind that if you get into endgame, you'll be dealing with a lot of scheduled events. Before I had to break it off I was having scheduled events every night. This includes about 4 hours of Dynamis twice a week as well as sky/sea farming for anywhere from 2-8 hours at least once a week. You really have to police yourself.

Also, endgame is a mean MEAN place. Especially now. Everyone has to start somewhere, but most endgamers have been at it for a long time. Finding a good linkshell (guild type thing) can be hard. However, if you take the right approach you'll find yourself well liked and making solid progress and friends.



Sounds good, I do like the fact you switch out job classes. I can't say the races really impress me too much I'm afraid (still angry that my moogles are not options ) The job classes should be quite nice to play as. Do you get access to all of them from the start or do you need to unlock them through quests? I thought I heard something about this, I'm curious to know.

The races aren't bad. I was also disappointed at first, but you learn to like it. There is a bit of racism though. In general I would say pick the race and job that you want to play. However, if you have no strong leaning one way or the other it would be good to pick a race based on your playstyle. Also, some races are more flexible than others.

People are more likely to accept a Taru playing melee than a Galka playing mage. It's just easier for them to make up for the shortcomings. Hume is good all around, but some would say it's a boring choice. If you wanted to ever play Black Mage, Taru is so unfairly overbalanced over the other races it's just unfair.... and they are very cocky and elitist about it.

I'd tend to say that Mithra > Hume > Taru for flexibility. Elvaan is shortly after and Galkaa is a distant 5th.

As for jobs, you start with 6 jobs available (same jobs as FF I). You'll need to get to level 30 to start doing advanced job quests to unlock the other 12. Some of them are pitifully easy and some are very very difficult and will require much help.


Is joining a group easy?


Joining groups is fairly easy. You put up your 'flag' http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/LFP.gif and start looking for a group. You can add a comment for those who read them when forming a party. Parties need a tank, a healer and some DDs (damage dealers) in general. Things bottle-neck if there aren't enough tanks and/or healers seeking to join. I find WoW's LFG system to be far better and I wish SE would listen to the players. The biggest problem with LFG is that you can't seek on multiple jobs and you can't seek on one job while doing something on another.

The biggest problems with joining parties is that certain jobs just aren't as popular, or even worse, have a bad reputation and get no invites. Puppetmaster is probably the worst. Dragoon and Thief and pretty low on the invites as well.



How about Guilds?

FFXI has WoW beat here. They are called linkshells. You get a linkpearl from either the leader (shell holder) or a sackholder. You can be in as many as you like at a time... which is why it is so superior to WoW in my opinion.

Generally as you are just chilling out in a party, if they notice you don't have a pearl next to your name, you're likely to get an invite to a lowish social linkshell. Starting a linkshell in FFXI is also very easy as you just have to purchase the shell for a pretty low price from a vendor and pick the color and name.


Will I need to really know some people going in or is it set up that may at times be meeting new people all the time?

It's very helpful to know people going in, but not absolutely necessary. Having people that can answer your questions on the fly is great. Also having a little start up gil is helpful, but it's also good to learn how to manage on your own. You'll be fine if you start alone and you'll make friends as you go.


Sounds normal but I'm certain I would have to see it first hand to understand how bad it truly is. How is the second character/account work? I've heard only some pieces of it and must say it sounds kinda like a rip off. I would love some more elaboration please.

Well in the end my wife and I had around 14 mules (14 extra bucks on our monthly bill) just trying to keep things straight. I had several jobs at 30 and 40 and some at 50 as well as a 75 Bard, which was decked out beyond belief both at 75 and at all caps. She had 3 level 75 jobs decked out.

Many of our mules were simply gear storage. Capped gear for our mains and for other jobs. I had an entire mule dedicated completely to my Bard's gear as well as one for all of my melee jobs and another for all of my mage jobs. Beside that, it's great to have a mule in each city so you can have access to all of the Auction Houses at a moments notice and sell (or buy) things quickly and easily where the market is good.

One of the primary ways we manage to make money without stopping too often was to simply keep ALL of the random drops we got and sort them to be sold among our mules. A lot of people keep mules for gardening as well since it can make a lot of money. The number of AH slots you can use is 7. So if you went mining or something and wanted to sell a lot of stuff, it could be backed up in your box for well over a week unless you sent it to a mule to be taken care of.

SE keeps adding storage mediums, and this is great, but it's just not enough. Most people I know with multiple jobs just end up playing one gimp by sharing gear that is only marginally useful simply so they don't have to use that much more inventory space.



Who are the RMT?

Real Money Traders. You'll also see CGF (Chinese gil/gold farmers). They play 24/7 and even though they get banned, they keep coming back. If a mob drops a great piece of gear, there will be probably 3 of them sitting where that mob spawns all day long and likely using cheats to claim it so that you have no option but to buy it on the AH at an inflated price.

I'm not sure how things like mining are now, but there used to be one of them at every mining point botting it so that you literally could NOT mine. They have destroyed the crafting economy and pretty much everything else.


How important is money in the game?

The sad answer is extremely. You really need money to make it in Vana'diel. People will generally expect you to eat food that enhances your performance. You'll be expected to have oils and powders (to keep sneaked and invised around aggressive mobs) in some places. You'll have to keep your gear current and it can be very expensive at times. Even passing up the luxury items you'll find yourself hurting for money a lot. Some jobs feel it a lot more than others.


Also, how well does SE actually respond to the community?

When I left the answer was 'almost not at all.' They've gotten better, but there's really no direct line to SE like there is with Blizzard. You don't feel the impact of your feedback much and the GMs, though better, are still crap. They are outsourced groups that don't really know that much about the game most of the time. They answer to the higher up JP GMs. There's a good bit of racism and racial tension in the endgame world and Japanese players will often be favored. I've been witness to some egregious examples of this.

SE is, however, slowly listening more and more (probably because they realize their apathy was failing). You will at least feel their presence in trying to fix problems in the game, but you'll still feel very detached from them in any direct sense.



I unfortunately have a 56k connection. Besides downloading all the patches, how much is this going to be a problem?

Patches will make you want to claw your eyes out, but other than that you should be generally okay as long as nothing else is eating up your bandwidth while you attempt to play. You'll have very little chance of claiming any NMs (notorious monsters) though.



Are the job classes pretty balanced or are some classes extremely overpowered while others have been nerfed to near obsoletion?

Balance is a big problem in FFXI. I find that WoW has fixed a lot of the balance issues by allowing each job to be able to fill multiple roles in a pinch. In FFXI this just isn't the case. You also have a major number problem. There are only a handful of healers and even less tanks while the vast majority of jobs at DDs. That said, people tend to pick one job as the best of each category at different times.

With DDs this becomes a problem. You end up with your flavor of the month DDs. It once was Dragoon, but after a particular nerf people just laughed at DRG. Despite how powerful it can be it wasn't as powerful as it was AND there seems to be a huge influx of retards to DRG (and Dark Knight... go FF IV). Even now a lot of people don't want to invite DRG. Ranger used to be a GOD!! They were the only way in endgame and often a party would kick any other DD at any point to get a RNG. After their nerf they are lower than dirt for the most part even though they are still great.

It has a lot more to do with community perception than the realities of the job. It's funny how years ago people would say "Warrior is only a subjob... it's stupid as a main." People wouldn't even pick up WARs for XP PTs and now they are the flavor-of-the-month DD for over a year.

The balance could be tweaked, but really it's in people's heads so you just have to learn to work around that.


What terms and lingo do I need to know to get around easier (if the forum already has a place for this information just say so and I'll visit it.)

I've used a lot in this response. I don't think I could even begin to go down a list of lingo that would be inclusive, but I'll add a few.

AH = Auction House
LS = Linkshell
PT = Party
XP = duh
LFG/LFP = Looking for Group/Party

Also learning the shorthand of the job names is helpful, though you'll get it in time.


Anything else I should know, remember to consider that this may be my first MMO, so even trivial things might be important.

In general, never buy on the AH, but always sell at the AH. Also keep in mind that in FFXI you have to level your subjob independently of your primary job. Most main jobs will be expected to have several subs by endgame. These are things you'll pick up as you go, but it's good to know ahead of time.




Sorry for the uber long post. If you have any other questions I'd be glad to answer them.

Wolf Kanno
07-15-2007, 07:24 AM
Just general meanie-ness to others ^^, Most folk in-game are definetly willing to help you get started and give you some tips on things you will have to be prepared for in future (well, the folk that know the term "We all have to start somewhere").

That's good, I'm usually only an ass when making a point about something. I'm pretty stubborn about my opinions but I doubt that will be an issue until I get a really good understanding of the game.



The advanced jobs (Bard, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, Ninja, Puppetmaster, Samurai, Beastmaster, Corsair, Dragoon, Paladin, Ranger and Summoner) all have some extremely tricky quests (well... most of them, some quick and others tedious), you have choice to 6 classes when you start (Warrior, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage and Redmage) but don't rule them out as useless as most (if not ALL) starting classes can hold there own (In other words... all classes have unique abilities that make them a core need for different situations, Mage jobs are loved in most parties and so is the Bard).

You have to be level 30 before being capable of pulling these off? Sounds fun actually.:)



Nasty nasty people called Real Money Traders... unfortunately you will need ALOT of money (Bards only need a few million) and they GM quite strictly when it comes to botting, RTM etc.

Oy, I can see why they would be disliked....



All classes are fairly balanced at most times, there are some ovcourse overpowered classes (Blue Mage >_____> among a couple of others) and some the community shun completely for past nerfs (despite they are still very useful).

Good to hear they are not as broken as I've heard.




It is best to do some research or ask some advice on a how a job works before actually using it in a party situation. As the game grows older, the tolerance for ignorance is lower. That's one of the worst elitism issues. Always be ready to listen to advice from those in a party.

There are certain things that may or may not occur to you about party dynamics that you can often only get from experience. Understanding how not to pull hate is a big deal. Knowing not to us AoE (area of effect; multi-target) spells pretty much ever is important. Knowing how to handle links or adds. If you decide to play and have a job you plan to play, feel free to ask for advice and I'm sure people here would be glad to give you a primer.

Good to hear people are willing to help. I understand the issues of group dynamics and that will be the very unfamiliar territory of play style this game will enlighten me to. I think it will be fun though;)


You sound a lot like me. Just remember this is a blessing and a curse. You'll garner respect for doing your best, but the game can take a lot of time and eat away at your life if you're this type of person.

Thanks for the warning, I'll try my best not to be the type of person who winds up on the news. I have a lot of things I need to do in my real life anyway so hopefully I'll be able to strike a nice balance.




Just keep in mind that if you get into endgame, you'll be dealing with a lot of scheduled events. Before I had to break it off I was having scheduled events every night. This includes about 4 hours of Dynamis twice a week as well as sky/sea farming for anywhere from 2-8 hours at least once a week. You really have to police yourself.

Also, endgame is a mean MEAN place. Especially now. Everyone has to start somewhere, but most endgamers have been at it for a long time. Finding a good linkshell (guild type thing) can be hard. However, if you take the right approach you'll find yourself well liked and making solid progress and friends.


Defineltly need to make sure I strike that balance but thank you for warning me about the commitments. I probably won't have too much issues with the linkshells though unless I do something really stupid 3 minutes into the game...




The races aren't bad. I was also disappointed at first, but you learn to like it. There is a bit of racism though. In general I would say pick the race and job that you want to play. However, if you have no strong leaning one way or the other it would be good to pick a race based on your playstyle. Also, some races are more flexible than others.

People are more likely to accept a Taru playing melee than a Galka playing mage. It's just easier for them to make up for the shortcomings. Hume is good all around, but some would say it's a boring choice. If you wanted to ever play Black Mage, Taru is so unfairly overbalanced over the other races it's just unfair.... and they are very cocky and elitist about it.

I'd tend to say that Mithra > Hume > Taru for flexibility. Elvaan is shortly after and Galkaa is a distant 5th.

As for jobs, you start with 6 jobs available (same jobs as FF I). You'll need to get to level 30 to start doing advanced job quests to unlock the other 12. Some of them are pitifully easy and some are very very difficult and will require much help.


I'll most likely be a hume since I am boring that way, but I prefer flexibility more than personal strenghts. Choosing a starting class may be an issue since I like most of those classes. I know this may be a chore but can I get a quick analysis of the job classes? Pros and cons?



Joining groups is fairly easy. You put up your 'flag' http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/LFP.gif and start looking for a group. You can add a comment for those who read them when forming a party. Parties need a tank, a healer and some DDs (damage dealers) in general. Things bottle-neck if there aren't enough tanks and/or healers seeking to join. I find WoW's LFG system to be far better and I wish SE would listen to the players. The biggest problem with LFG is that you can't seek on multiple jobs and you can't seek on one job while doing something on another.

The biggest problems with joining parties is that certain jobs just aren't as popular, or even worse, have a bad reputation and get no invites. Puppetmaster is probably the worst. Dragoon and Thief and pretty low on the invites as well.


Sounds messy but simple enough. I doubt I'll need to be too worried about that until I can build my character up to being useful. Sad to hear that Dragoons have gotten such a bad wrap though.




FFXI has WoW beat here. They are called linkshells. You get a linkpearl from either the leader (shell holder) or a sackholder. You can be in as many as you like at a time... which is why it is so superior to WoW in my opinion.

Generally as you are just chilling out in a party, if they notice you don't have a pearl next to your name, you're likely to get an invite to a lowish social linkshell. Starting a linkshell in FFXI is also very easy as you just have to purchase the shell for a pretty low price from a vendor and pick the color and name.


Wow, that is better. I have too many friends who have issues in WoW or Everquest about joining guilds and going nowhere with them and then having to deal with the trouble of leaving and finding a new guild. This system sounds far more flexible.



It's very helpful to know people going in, but not absolutely necessary. Having people that can answer your questions on the fly is great. Also having a little start up gil is helpful, but it's also good to learn how to manage on your own. You'll be fine if you start alone and you'll make friends as you go.

I can see the information part being useful but I do prefer to learn how to stand on my own, even though I like being well prepared but I hate being a hindrance to others.




Well in the end my wife and I had around 14 mules (14 extra bucks on our monthly bill) just trying to keep things straight. I had several jobs at 30 and 40 and some at 50 as well as a 75 Bard, which was decked out beyond belief both at 75 and at all caps. She had 3 level 75 jobs decked out.

Many of our mules were simply gear storage. Capped gear for our mains and for other jobs. I had an entire mule dedicated completely to my Bard's gear as well as one for all of my melee jobs and another for all of my mage jobs. Beside that, it's great to have a mule in each city so you can have access to all of the Auction Houses at a moments notice and sell (or buy) things quickly and easily where the market is good.

One of the primary ways we manage to make money without stopping too often was to simply keep ALL of the random drops we got and sort them to be sold among our mules. A lot of people keep mules for gardening as well since it can make a lot of money. The number of AH slots you can use is 7. So if you went mining or something and wanted to sell a lot of stuff, it could be backed up in your box for well over a week unless you sent it to a mule to be taken care of.

SE keeps adding storage mediums, and this is great, but it's just not enough. Most people I know with multiple jobs just end up playing one gimp by sharing gear that is only marginally useful simply so they don't have to use that much more inventory space.


That does sound quite troublesome... Though I must say damn fine job to your wife for getting three job classes to 75. I'm impressed.



Real Money Traders. You'll also see CGF (Chinese gil/gold farmers).
They play 24/7 and even though they get banned, they keep coming back. If a mob drops a great piece of gear, there will be probably 3 of them sitting where that mob spawns all day long and likely using cheats to claim it so that you have no option but to buy it on the AH at an inflated price.

I'm not sure how things like mining are now, but there used to be one of them at every mining point botting it so that you literally could NOT mine. They have destroyed the crafting economy and pretty much everything else.


CGF I've heard that term before.:D Sad to hear they are really messing up the economy.



The sad answer is extremely. You really need money to make it in Vana'diel. People will generally expect you to eat food that enhances your performance. You'll be expected to have oils and powders (to keep sneaked and invised around aggressive mobs) in some places. You'll have to keep your gear current and it can be very expensive at times. Even passing up the luxury items you'll find yourself hurting for money a lot. Some jobs feel it a lot more than others.

Sounds normal for an MMO and in hindsight, that was probably a stupid question now that I think about it. ;)




When I left the answer was 'almost not at all.' They've gotten better, but there's really no direct line to SE like there is with Blizzard. You don't feel the impact of your feedback much and the GMs, though better, are still crap. They are outsourced groups that don't really know that much about the game most of the time. They answer to the higher up JP GMs. There's a good bit of racism and racial tension in the endgame world and Japanese players will often be favored. I've been witness to some egregious examples of this.

SE is, however, slowly listening more and more (probably because they realize their apathy was failing). You will at least feel their presence in trying to fix problems in the game, but you'll still feel very detached from them in any direct sense.


It's sad that it doesn't seem like they respond to problems very quickly, but then again, at least they aren't lurking over and playing "rules police" Hopefully it won't be an issue.



Patches will make you want to claw your eyes out, but other than that you should be generally okay as long as nothing else is eating up your bandwidth while you attempt to play. You'll have very little chance of claiming any NMs (notorious monsters) though.

I already claw my eyes out downloading normal things...:cry: my old job had a wondeful internet connection (I now understand why all my old friends insisted on playing WoW at work...) Well if worst comes to worst, I'll just "borrow" their internet connection to get the patches out of the way... :shifty:




Balance is a big problem in FFXI. I find that WoW has fixed a lot of the balance issues by allowing each job to be able to fill multiple roles in a pinch. In FFXI this just isn't the case. You also have a major number problem. There are only a handful of healers and even less tanks while the vast majority of jobs at DDs. That said, people tend to pick one job as the best of each category at different times.

With DDs this becomes a problem. You end up with your flavor of the month DDs. It once was Dragoon, but after a particular nerf people just laughed at DRG. Despite how powerful it can be it wasn't as powerful as it was AND there seems to be a huge influx of retards to DRG (and Dark Knight... go FF IV). Even now a lot of people don't want to invite DRG. Ranger used to be a GOD!! They were the only way in endgame and often a party would kick any other DD at any point to get a RNG. After their nerf they are lower than dirt for the most part even though they are still great.

It has a lot more to do with community perception than the realities of the job. It's funny how years ago people would say "Warrior is only a subjob... it's stupid as a main." People wouldn't even pick up WARs for XP PTs and now they are the flavor-of-the-month DD for over a year.

The balance could be tweaked, but really it's in people's heads so you just have to learn to work around that.


It's a shame the classes are not too flexible, but isn't that where sub classes come into play?

Perception sounds like a bitch and it's sad to hear that DRG and DK are getting bad wraps due to incompetence. I'll wait to see how those play out.




I've used a lot in this response. I don't think I could even begin to go down a list of lingo that would be inclusive, but I'll add a few.

AH = Auction House
LS = Linkshell
PT = Party
XP = duh
LFG/LFP = Looking for Group/Party

Also learning the shorthand of the job names is helpful, though you'll get it in time.


Thanks for the list;)




In general, never buy on the AH, but always sell at the AH. Also keep in mind that in FFXI you have to level your subjob independently of your primary job. Most main jobs will be expected to have several subs by endgame. These are things you'll pick up as you go, but it's good to know ahead of time.

Thanks for the advice.:)


Sorry for the uber long post. If you have any other questions I'd be glad to answer them.

No, I'm happy you went to such detail. It's been quite informative. I'll probably pick this game up in the next few days (when my work stops calling me in to pick up shifts cause my co-workers are useless:rolleyes2 ) and depending upon how bad the patch downloads are, I should hopefully be up in a few weeks throwing in time constraints due to work and personal projects.

Yeargdribble
07-15-2007, 07:28 PM
I
'll most likely be a hume since I am boring that way, but I prefer flexibility more than personal strenghts. Choosing a starting class may be an issue since I like most of those classes. I know this may be a chore but can I get a quick analysis of the job classes? Pros and cons?

Since you have to level jobs independently of one another, you'll need to set up a plan depending on your goals. The subjob quest is at level 18 and the advanced job quests are at level 30.

A few examples.

You want to level DRG...

Start MNK -> 1-18 (get subjobs); do WAR from 1-30 (or 37 if you want a full sub); then you can start leveling DRG.

I'll try to put a full list of jobs at the bottom.


I can see the information part being useful but I do prefer to learn how to stand on my own, even though I like being well prepared but I hate being a hindrance to others.

You'll learn to get over that to a large extent with FFXI considering you'll have to ask for help for almost every activity in the game. Asking advice will become the lease of your worries.


[on money]
Sounds normal for an MMO and in hindsight, that was probably a stupid question now that I think about it.

Nah. In WoW money is almost a non-issue. Sure you need to save up for your mount at 40, but if you're even reasonably good at money management you'll probably have 100g by the time you hit 40. In FFXI money is a chore like you wouldn't believe and is needed far more.


It's a shame the classes are not too flexible, but isn't that where sub classes come into play?

You would think so, wouldn't you? In all reality the game is very cookie-cutter. There are very very few situations where you are allowed to sub any variety of things. The community has predetermined what SJs work and don't allow a lot of wiggle room. Oddly enough, they are often wrong and dislike very good combos, but you either play by their rules or you don't get PT invites.

It's the same case with filling certain roles. Sometimes people want to come and melee as RDM/NIN, but people just won't really allow it for all types of reasons. A really great player can pull off an odd combination and blow people's minds, but it's very rare and generally not worth trying.

Also keep in mind that each job is rated a certain skill in certain weapons. The accepted weapons will be the A+ or perhaps A-. Just because a job (like WAR) can use a lot of weapons doesn't mean it will be acceptable to do so except under extreme circumstances.






Basic jobs

-Warrior- (WAR)

This is a pretty easy job to start out on. It hits pretty hard and will be called upon to tank at lower levels. You'll be expected to have MNK sub beyond level 20 and will be expected to have NIN sub at the very least before 50 (though some expect it as low as 24). In reality, WAR/NIN doesn't work all that well early on, but people are convinced it does because they are mimicing engame WARs. By the 30s WAR will pretty much never tank in XP except as backup. At 75 WAR is the flavor-of-the-month DD in XP PTs. WARs should use Great Axe as soon as possible (first GAxe is level 5 I think and you start with a sword). It will be good to train up one handed axes so that you can dual-wield them (with /NIN) eventually.


-Monk- (MNK)

Decent DD early on and should breeze through the early levels. MNKs use hand-to-hand weapons obviously. They aren't one of the most popular DDs, but definitely aren't the worst. They are especially strong against bones and have some great situational uses, but you're way less likely to be a front-liner in endgame for technical reasons. WAR is the standard sub for MNK pretty much always.


-Thief- (THF)

Thief is one of the hardest jobs to start as. Without a subjob in you first trip through earlier levels not only will you hit for crap, but you'll be the last picked for a group. THF is a powerful job if used correctly, however, most people don't care to use it correct and don't know how to. PTs don't have the patience to work well with THF that often. It's one of the lower invite jobs. However, leveling THF at least to 15 is a great idea for Treasure Hunter. At 45 you get Treasure Hunter II, which is much more noticeable. It's great for farming. THF will almost always be subbing NIN. If you party with assholes early on they may even complain that you don't have it before 30 (even though it's impossible if THF is your first). The standard sub before that is MNK or WAR. Thieves use daggers primarily, though before they get any good weapon skills they may use swords or h2h (if subbing MNK) before 33.


-Black Mage- (BLM)

One of the hardest to start out soloing, but one of the best soloers endgame. BLM can be fairly expensive due to spell costs early on... more so than most melees. BLM is also less and less popular in XP PTs, but very popular for endgame events. You'll never melee on BLM as you'll be sitting in the back either healing or nuking. You have to be careful how much hate you pull to be safe. The standard sub is WHM, though RDM is a required alt for many endgame linkshells. BLM is one of the main crowd control jobs.


-White Mage- (WHM)

Primary healer obviously. WHM gets somewhat trumped by RDM as a primary healer around level 41 and in a lot of later XP PTs will be often passed over to have a RDM main healer. WHM really won't suffer much in terms of invites though. Healers are almost always in short supply. BLM is the standard, basic sub, though SMN is generally the better and more popular choice. However, unlike some other jobs, you won't get bitched at for not subbing SMN if you don't have it.


-Red Mage- (RDM)

One of the most worshiped jobs in the game and they look cool. Starting one is pretty easy and you can get a good feel for multiple play styles early on. Their primary job is to enfeeble the mob, though at lower levels they will generally main heal. By 41 they get Refresh and become worshiped as they can essentially never run out of MP. They can also be great crowd control. RDM/NIN is one of the best soloers in the game if you're good. Primary subs are WHM and BLM, though at higher levels you'll probably be expected to have NIN and very serious RDMs will have DRK. RDM also has an incredibly amount of competition for gear in endgame.



Advanced jobs

-Bard- (BRD)

Pure support. BRD won't really hit anything ever. You will sing songs. One or two on the mob and about 4 on the party. You'll have to learn proper spacing and deal with people not standing in the right positions, but you can eventually catch on. BRD is very very sought after for XP and you'll very seldom have you flag up for over 5 minutes. Toward higher levels BRD will start to be the puller. By 75 you'll get absolutely hassled for invites to PTs. Standard sub is WHM, though for higher level pulling often RDM or NIN works better. BRD is one of primary crowd control jobs. They get Ballads which work like Refresh which makes them very popular.


-Beastmaster (BST)-

Supposedly one of the premiere soloing jobs. SE has said FU to BST over and over and over. BST can charm pets to fight for them and can also summon pets with items. They can solo pretty much better than any other jobs, though with certain changes by SE they are not nearly as good at it. They have to fight normal PTs for XP spots or go to out of the way places. They pretty much can never get spots in actual groups even if they try. They can be incredibly useful crowd control for certain endgame events. Primarily use axes.


-Blue Mage- (BLU)

Like old school BLUs, you have to learn enemy abilities. This can be hard and time consuming. Your primary roles in a group at to DD, though can also heal and do minimal crowd control depending on certain factors. Unless you are extremely well equipped don't expect to be a front-liner in endgame. PT invites are fair for BLU and they primarily use swords. BLU can be expected to have a huge variety of sub jobs. NIN is one of the most common, but having all mage subs is also useful as well as some other melee subs.


-Corsair- (COR)

Corsair is a combination of gambler and pirate. They can do a job similar to BRD (buffing the party) and can do minimal crowd control. They, unlike BRD, can also do a bit of damage. They do not overtake BRD for pulling in late game PTs however. Some sub WHM, though I think the common sub now is RNG and sometimes NIN.


-Dark Knight- (DRK)

DRK is one of the least respected jobs for groups. They tend to suck up a lot of the healer's MP due to pulling hate. They do large burst damage and have abilities that do more damage at risk to themselves or by taking away their own health. They primarily use Great Swords and Scythes and since these are 2-handed weapons, the suffer a bit for their slowness. Primary subs are WAR and in certain circumstances NIN.


-Dragoon (DRG)-

One of the less popular jobs, though it's better than it was in the past. DRGs use polearms and have a small pet Wyvern that they don't have direct control over. Beyond 60 DRG can solo pretty well with WHM sub. They also suffer the slowness penalty from a 2h primary weapon. Popular subs include WAR and SAM and for soloing, RDM, WHM, and BLU.


-Ninja- (NIN)

One of the primary tanking jobs. NIN is also a sub that almost every melee job in the game will be expected to have at some point. Ninja tanks by using shadows to essentially never take damage. Ninja is also very expensive for having to buy Ninja tools constantly. Their primary weapons are katanas.


-Paladin- (PLD)

The big tank in the game. PLD will get decent invites on the way up, but will have more trouble in the 60-75 area. PTs like the efficiency of NIN tanks for a constant flow of XP. PLD is highly relied about for tanking big endgame mobs that NIN can't tank though. PLD can use a little white mage to heal and do other things as well. PLD should always have a sword and shield. Primary subs are WAR and NIN.


-Puppetmaster- (PUP)

Pretty much regarded as a joke. PUP just wasn't developed correctly by SE. When released I guess SE didn't expect people to level the new jobs to 75 in under a month. PUP wasn't full fleshed out upon release and was beyond useless. Supposedly a solo job, but they suck at that as well. They are a punchline more than anything else. They primarily use h2h and their puppets, for which you need costly attachments.


-Ranger- (RNG)

Once upon a time RNG was a god, but they got nerfed hard... and they needed it. RNG is still a good DD and great for situations where a mob is constantly on the move (in endgame). They are somewhat costly though due to the price of keeping arrows stocked. They will generally sub NIN and sometimes WAR. They must stand away from the mob to shoot it for decent damage.


-Samurai- (SAM)

One of the more popular endgame DDs despite them using a 2h weapon, Great Katana. They have the ability to mediate and give themselves TP (which doesn't make sense until you play the game). They get decent PT invites on the way up and are the best at skill chains. They generally sub WAR and in some cases RNG.



-Summoner- (SMN)

This job just doesn't do what it needs to. In theory a SMN should be able to DD with their avatars and hold their own with melee jobs, but this isn't the case due to timers on their abilities and the MP limitations. If you're gonna be XPing your SMN you'll be primarily healing with /WHM. They are however incredible DDs for endgame scenarios.

Del Murder
07-16-2007, 04:14 AM
I really don't recommend thief as a starting job. It requires you and your party to have good knowledge of how it works for it to be effective, and so for you to use it you need to know how it works AND be able to explain how it works.

It's frustrating.

Mnk is probably the easiest starting job. You just sit back and hit stuff with your fists. That's about it.

Markus. D
07-16-2007, 05:01 AM
Only problem I have with MNK is the lack of variety when it comes to combat.

Kapish pish POoorsh~

and that for the next few hundred/thousand (not likely thousand...) TP Bars.

Wolf Kanno
07-16-2007, 07:54 AM
Thank you so much for putting up with my incessant questions. Thank you Yeargdribble for the lowdown on the jobs as well as everyone else's insight. :)

Well I picked up the game today and downloaded it the computer, regretfully I am having issues downloading the updates to PlayOnline (which is really amusing since I've always had issues doing anything with playonline even back when FFIX's horrid guide was featured their.)

Basically, my internet keeps disconnecting while trying to download, I've been making sure not to browse or anything so the program can do it's job but it still insists on fighting me. This does seem to be an ill omen though... I really hope this isn't a glimpse of what it will do when I'm actually playing.:cry:

Hopefully I'll get it sorted out, at least it starts up where I left off when I'm downloading.

Yeargdribble
07-16-2007, 08:19 AM
Sadly that's not terribly uncommon. POL was meant to be something to add other games to, but since those games jumped ship, POL is just superfluous crap that make you click another 20 times to log in. It's terribly clunky and getting the download to work sucks because every time you DC it has to check every single file again before even attempting to download, by which time you've probably DC'd again. It's frustrating for sure.

Wolf Kanno
07-26-2007, 01:54 AM
Good lord... I thought I should update.

Well I finally got everything downloaded, even the patches. Then my internet program crashed. I got it "fixed". But everytime I try to play XI, PlayOnline gets a disconnection error, then either PlayOnline or my internet connection crashes...:cry: This usually happens when I get to the screen that asks to either create or load a character... I have seen the beautiful intro and nothing more...

I'm beginning to wonder if I even got past creating a character and getting on a server if this problem wouldn't keep occuring. PlayOnline is just horribly non-user friendly and SE seriously needs to overhaul and streamline it now that online gaming is becoming more prevalent. My internet program is also pretty damn glitchy and I think it mistakes everything for a virus (including itself)...

I either need to give up for the moment or work towards fixing my internet problems. Oiy...

Rostum
07-26-2007, 02:06 AM
SE has a huge record for bad customer service.

What exactly is your Internet "program"? If you are running directly into an Ethernet cable, you don't need any programs.

Wolf Kanno
07-26-2007, 03:04 AM
SE has a huge record for bad customer service.

What exactly is your Internet "program"? If you are running directly into an Ethernet cable, you don't need any programs.


I have dial up I'm afraid. My service is People PC, it's cheap but really buggy. I just updated it so hopefully I might get some changes.

Markus. D
07-26-2007, 03:57 AM
before entering the game.

Go into the start menu and Config FFXI (FFXI Config).

That way you can play to your computer's graphical settings when/if you get to enter :]

nozkits
07-28-2007, 07:18 AM
IMHO, everything is great and I dont think it is quite ready to roll over considering the new expansion pack...

One concern is very deadly about the game though...That is...addiction...(and elitism but hey, that comes with the territory)


Eletism I can handle, addiction kinda worries me. Most of my friends are WoW addicts and that... is just plain damn scary... One of them wears a shirt that reminds him to eat real food, not just the in-game type;)

I noticed the expansion so I guess the series may have some more life to it. That's good to hear.
don't worry. As long as you don't pretend to synthesize items in the real world then all is well.

Jessweeee♪
07-29-2007, 07:00 AM
Oooh, oooh! If you decide to play, remember, CERBERUS SERVER!!!