Pipe Dreams: What would it take to get you to stop downloading fansubs?

[JKTrix]

Taken from the bottom of this article from Anime News Network (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2007-08-10), I thought it would be an interesting topic. I'm typing up an actual response to this question to send to them now, but I wondered what other fansub watchin' folks would think.

It's unlikely that it will be entirely possible to convince anyone to stop fansubloadin', but my main point of the thing I'm writing is the only way to cut into the fansubs is to get the anime 'out there' as fast as they do. Namely using streaming sites, like how Cartoon Network has its Toonami Jetstream and Adult Swim Fix (though I can't access these myself, since I'm not in the US).

If there was absolutely anything that the Western companies could do to get you to stop downloading fansubs, what would it be?

[Peegee]

Yeah. Stop dubbing anime. I'm serious. I have no rationale for my mentality but 'they don't dub french movies, and if they did they would be monsters' is a very similar argument to my feelings on the issue. Also I'm tired of idiocy like 'BELIEVE IT'.

[Necronopticous]

I don't know if it would make me stop downloading fansubs and start buying localized anime, however, some of the things that localization companies need to work on are speed and price.

Most of the time when an anime series gets localized that I like, I've already seen it almost a year prior. I'm over it. I don't want to shell out money for it. I especially don't want to shell out <B>so much</B> money for it. It's not that the releases themselves are overpriced, rather, it's that they put out so many damn releases for each series. Did FLCL really need to be 4 releases? It's six episodes for Christ's sake, throw them on a DVD and be done with it. Imagine if they put the Sopranos or the Simpsons out on DVD 2 episodes at a time. There would be thousands at 29.99-39.99 each. It's ridiculous for them to wonder why no one is buying up their releases when they're clearly trying to swindle everyone who might be interested.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Honestly, they want me watching fansubs. That's the only way I'll decide if I want to buy the DVD (eventually).

The eventually tends to come in because as Necro said, the DVDs are WAY too expensive. I tend to buy the box sets when they come out, as they are often much more reasonably priced.

[Vermachtnis]

You can never get everyone to stop downloading fansubs. Probably because when they first started subbing, the VA's weren't all that good and the stigmata as somehow stuck to todays. I'm not saying everything today dubbed is good IE anything by 4Kids. But, I mean stuff like Naruto. It's a good dub, yet you go to the UN2 boards and people want to listen to it with Japanese audio. Why!? Because people are still complaining about 'Believe it', although he hasn't said it in about a year. So about the only to fix it, is to build a time machine and get good VAs for the earlier subs or get a shotgun and shoot the idiots yelling, "You're a Japanophile, Believe it!"

[Shoeberto]

I just think it'd be lowering the price point. Season 1 and 2 of The Venture Brothers, containing thirteen twenty-minute episodes of fluid hand-made animation, retails at about $30 a piece. A thirteen episode anime would probably be twice that. Go up to a 26 ep series, and it's getting ridiculous.

I've never bought any anime series on DVD because it's just not reasonable to pay that much money to watch it.

[JKTrix]

Kinda got distracted from writing up my big response (being at work and all) but the tl;dr version is using the internet to stream the subtitled anime for free shortly after it airs in Japan. That is the way to cut into the fansubs. The topic includes 'pipe dreams', so it could be anything you suggest.

Companies like Geneon and Bandai, who have a presence on both sides of the pacific, have been pre-licensing anime. In that regard, they can easily get these things available within days of the Japanese broadcast since they already own the rights in both locations. Send the Japanese scripts by e-mail to be translated, send the video, and just stream it subtitled. Get it up in a matter of days and you eliminate the need for fansubs (Besides the whole download-a-permanent-copy thing).

What they could do is have the episodes on rotation, where they last for at least a week until the next episode is released. I think this is what Cartoon Network does, but I'm not sure. Basically, the streaming episodes will not be there permanently or for a long time, because after all they still have DVDs to sell. What this streaming service will essentially be, is just like watching TV over the internet.

I personally would be totally fine with ads on the streaming website or before the video itself if it allows me to stream that episode for free (No popups though). Free= more people would be inclined to watch, vs some kind of iTunes or Video On Demand thing where you have to pay before you watch it. And with the advertisements, they'd be making money from the people watching their stuff for free.

Many fansub fans who do support anime DVDs, myself definitely included, attribute the majority of their anime DVD purchaes to having seen it already on fansub. This will have the same effect--if they can watch something for free, and are certain that they like it, they would be more willing to spend relatively outrageous money to buy the DVDs.

Streaming is the best way to go to cut into the fansubs. The industry is starting to head that way now (some new DVD releases allow you to stream the first ep), but it's taking way too long. Get these episodes out and streaming in subtitled form soon after their japanese broadcast, or you'll never 'compete' with the fansubs.

Since we're talking 'pipe dreams' here, perhaps they could even use the actual fansubbers in some ways after they implement this next-day streaming broadcast. Like when they deliver a C&D letter to the fansubbers, offer to pay them to advertise their streaming space for whatever anime they just C&D'd. That way they'd get right to the core of the people who *are* downloading these fansubs. And I'm sure the fansubbers would appreciate getting some money. Or even license the fansubbers to do the translations for them. Pipe dreams.

[Wolf Kanno]

You have to understand that anime is more expensive due to other factors. Not only paying the VAs and the people who go through and clean up the video and sound quality but mostly copyright agreements. Japanese companies soar up the prices for the rights to their series. Venture Bros. and Simpsoms are not affected because the IP's belong to their respected distibuters and they don't have to charge as high.

Why do you think it takes forever for certain series to come out? It's not just because of dubbing but mostly sorting out legal stuff and bartering with other companies over who gets what. The importing companies that resell it are just trying to make back their funds.

So in truth, if the Japanese companies stop selling their IP's at unreasonable prices (which just might happen if people stop illegally downloading the series off the web;) ) then the foreign distributers might be able to knock off 10 or 15 dollars or perhaps sell the series with more than four episodes...

Now everyone come together and sing with me...

"It's the CIRCLE OF LIFE!!!! and it moves us all!"

[Renmiri]

Put it on the web at reasonable prices. Open source rules.

[XxSephirothxX]

Probably nothing, because I pretty much pirate everything. :p But I don't really download too many fansubs, anyway--I'll download a lot of anime that's already been released in the US with dual audio, and only the occasional series that hasn't come out over here. And most of those are older ones that have been around for years, so I don't think that hurts the distributor very much.

[Shoeberto]

Put it on the web at reasonable prices. Open source rules.
that really doesn't classify it as open source xD

[Madame Adequate]

1) Don't make me wait ages for things. This applies to movies, games, and pretty much anything else.
2) Make sure that their own subbing is of professional quality, not of equivalent quality to the fansubs.
3) Don't have the cost in one part of the world significantly higher than others. I don't buy PS2 games at the extortionate UK prices because I can import them from NTSC territories and even after both P&P AND customs, it won't be any more expensive (And I don't have to wait. See #1)

Short answer: Don't treat your customers like crap/idiots, and the majority of them will play by the rules.

[ReloadPsi]

What would convince me to stop watching fansubs: Toei to release their unedited Sentai series over here in the west with subtitles (not meaning to say they should stop making Power Rangers, but Sentai would be good for people who felt they were outgrowing the former), meaning that people like TV-Nihon don't have to do it illegally. Adaptation of tokusatsu in general is quite frowned upon by many fans (not me, I think it's a great idea, but I wanna see the raw stuff too) so this would go down quite well.

[Namelessfengir]

hey JK
how do the boys on megatokyo feel on this subject?

[aquatius]

You could just read the manga.

[ShunNakamura]

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1) Releases in a quick time frame. Seriously fansubbers have to work and have their own lives, but yet several fansub groups can still make quality releases within a day after it has aired in Japan. I don't expect it to be as fast as fansubs but it still has to make it in a timely fashion.

2) Reasonable prices. The easiest way to do this would be to enable torrent technology and provide the series through downloads(I am sure if you instigated some sort of reward system you could get uses to provide upload power. Perhaps something like a discount for every 20 Gigabytes you upload or something).*

3) Don't rape the dialog or cultural references. I watch foreign shows to get a taste of their culture and way of life.

4) Don't over-edit or remove scenes just because you think they are too adult'ish or not fitting in with American society(this is a bit.... better than what it was in the past; so I don't have too many complaints here anymore this is just a warning not to repeat past mistakes).

5) Don't change the characters personalities(As with number 4 this hasn't been horrible in the official releases I have seen of late.... well other than 4kids).

6)Release more animes. I have watched several on fansubs that just haven't been released over here. And until the day that all attractive anime is released in our language fansubs will still have a niche.

7) If you are going to dub don't cut costs on the Voice Actors. Bad choices on the voice actors can ruin it even if you have the above all in good use. Fansubbers don't have to worry about this since it is just a sub(as a note in the past even fans could do a 'better' dub than what was released to the public for this and above reasons).

8) Public execution of the ones running the 4kids anime division. Preferably a painful execution

I jest.










Or do I?







*If it was set so that discounts wouldn't stack you would actually be promoting them to buy more anime from you(i.e. you would have to use the one discount before you would get another).
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[Værn]

You jest not.

The only way I can think of to get people to stop downloading fansubbed anime is to simply stop making anime.
I don't see how making people pay for the torrents could work... If you make people pay to download a something than somebody is eventually going to buy it and release an exact copy of it for free download.

[ReloadPsi]

Another thing that would stop fansubbing: 4Kids being shut down to make room for a better localisation company.

[edczxcvbnm]

For me the big thing is price but then again I am really cheap. Super cheap. I occasionally buy TV shows and when I do it is under $20.

I also have the view that this airs for free on TV over there and people take their time to translate and subtitle this for free. FREE all around. One could make the argument that advertising pays for it so it isn't free but I don't pay so it is free to me.

As others have said. If they put this stuff on their site for free with advertisements and just subtitle it then it would be all good. Also don't try to throw fancy accents and :skull::skull::skull::skull: in there. Examples would be Advent Children...Cait Sith has a Scottish accent...what the fuck were they thinking?

[ReloadPsi]

Cait Sith has a Scottish accent...what the smurf were they thinking?

Because Cait Sith is derived from a celtic legend. The scottish accent makes perfect sense.

[edczxcvbnm]

No it really doesn't. It is a robot cat that controls a robot mog. This robot cat is controlled by a real person and speaks as such.

EDIT: On second thought it probably wouldn't have been so bad if he actually spoke that was in the original game as well...but he doesn't. That alone is enough for it to not make sense.

[ShunNakamura]

If you make people pay to download a something than somebody is eventually going to buy it and release an exact copy of it for free download.

<span style="color:#FFCCFF">
But that would not be a fansub :p.

Actually that is something that really irks me with some so called 'fansub' groups. They don't subtitle it. They just rip the DVD's and then release it online. Since when is that fansubbing? Grrr.....
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[Sword]

I would stop watching fansubs if the official releases were accurate translations. Because they aren't. They just put in the subtitles what the english voice actors say, rather than what the japanese are saying.