Who is right.

[demondude]

I was on gamespot when In the kingdom hearts forum two guys had an argument one said that kingdom hearts was a "baby game" while the other defended it and said it wasn't.

Personally I don't think it's a baby game it just has a few off moments.

What do you all think?

[demondude]

Its not babyish, its a fun and serious game. The Fun from Disney and the Serious from Square Enix.

Although there are some corny moments. Well corny for me anyway.

Yeah thats What I meant corny I disliked the whole bit with winnie the pooh.

[Advent VII]

its a great game, and while playing it, its seriouse, becuase it takes itself seriously. but when you step back and look at it, not so much. any seriouse conversaion is inevetably punctured by a 'gooorsh' or 'ayuk'. one of the majoy villians in the game, pete, i find impossble to find in any way threatening aside from delevering some corney dialog befor waddeling off and doing somthing comicle like tripping over a banana peel on the way. even the new kh's 3 trailer, which i thought was very well done and had my full atention, even feeling pity and emotion towards the knights that are obviosuly good seen so completly and effortlessly beaten, and even see one of them get cuaght by the back of the head, gets his helmet crushed, turend to ice and tossed down a hill to only just bearly be cuaght by another, was ruined at the very end by mickey standing far away, looking on, with his brightly colored key blade topped with a cute little star, trying his best to look angry and menesing, and failing missarably. disconected me from all emotion i had perviously, to be relpaced with 'wow, that looks kind of dumb'. Anyways, as i said, playing the game, it all makes perfect sence and is seriosue, becuase you accept that cloud and hurcules are running around in the same world, as you trounce through the winnie the pooh story book, but after you put the controler down, your not exactly going to walk away feeling that you just experianced somthing truley epic and thrilling. and its only worse for the people who havent sat down and played it. they just see sephiroth and goofy, and other people running around with giant keys talking about the darkness in peoples hearts. not hard to see why some people make early assumptions of it.

[The Mog Ninja]

It is a very serious game, IMO.

[Firo Volondé]

It is a game for kids. The game is really 99% influenced by Disney, but scattered with a few FF characters and battle style to lure in some Square fans (or maybe, to train the next generation into becoming Square fans themselves). Every world and every playable character except for one is either original or Disney-themed. While it's no Dora the Explorer, I wouldn't recommend it anyone over 15 unless they're into Disney or want some Disney nostalgia.

KH2 is a little more serious than its predecessor, sure, but that's like saying a beetle is a little bigger than an ant. They even censored it for US audiences (I believe that they changes something to do with the Fire spell), something I've very rarely seen outside a SNES game. They wouldn't do that if it was aimed at adults. My prognosis: While I like the KH series, I would definitely agree with the guy who called it a baby game.

[The Mog Ninja]

Yes, because someone stabbing themselves in the heart is for babies >.>

[demondude]

Here is what the guy who said it was childish said exactly.


Yeah but I disagree because even though it has final fantasy characters in it is a very immature game for instance at some point seifer says something completely out of character which sounds like it is to please under 13s

The fact that you go through the game with goofy and donald duck dosen't help either and the main character uses a "keyblade" because swords may frighten younger audiences.

Plus spells like fire have been renamed because of blatent "don't play with fire kids" instructions to mind.

I mean you go to a magical world and help winnie the pooh and the little mermaid is very corny and off putting and they have only pinned on a few more mature characters so the older audience feels a bit more with it.

And the ease of the game is awful even a young child could complete the gamewithout a game over which is ridiculous.

Basicaly its final fantasy for little kids with a few badly played mature characters thrown in to improve sails.

I just hope kingdom hearts 3 is much more mature because I'm surprised that sources say the game will be universal age rating which obviously means that it will be even more babyish.

That was this other guys argument Which I disagree with completely.

[The Mog Ninja]

They use Keyblades due to the plot.

And if that guy is using a statement said by an un-important character to make his point, he clearly has no real argument.

[Advent VII]

The fact that you go through the game with goofy and donald duck dosen't help either

Plus spells like fire have been renamed because of blatent "don't play with fire kids" instructions to mind.

I mean you go to a magical world and help winnie the pooh and the little mermaid is very corny and off putting and they have only pinned on a few more mature characters so the older audience feels a bit more with it.

And the ease of the game is awful even a young child could complete the gamewithout a game over which is ridiculous.

Basicaly its final fantasy for little kids with a few badly played mature characters thrown in to improve sails.

i agree with these points of the guys argument. though, he dosent give any redeaming qualitys to the game,which shows hes just out to make it look bad, not give it a really fair judgement.. The gameplay for example. While the game is easy, even on proudmode, the gameplay works well. I often found myself ignoring most of the cheesy 'you must get ride of the darkness in your heart' and just played the game.

[Firo Volondé]

Yes, because someone stabbing themselves in the heart is for babies >.>

No blood, no dying, therefore you can't really call it stabbing. They didn't even refer to it as stabbing, just "unlocking the heart's power" or something like that. Plus I think we've already established that "baby" in this sense is not literal, just aimed at younger audiences compared to other games out there.

I think the guy who said that hadn't actually played it, just seen some screenshots/videos and made assumptions, since his argument is too poor to be attributed to crappy debating skills alone. That doesn't mean, however, that there is no argument. The game still lacks maturity. For example, keyblades are the primary weapon for Sora/Riku/Roxas etc., instead of being an auxiliary tool not used for combat, but still imperative to the plot.

[The Mog Ninja]

So they carry around swords, which do no damage to Heartless or Nobodies whatsoever, AND Keyblades to unlock Doors, Keyholes etc., just so they can fight with swords instead of Keyblades?

That's genius there.

[Firo Volondé]

So they carry around swords, which do no damage to Heartless or Nobodies whatsoever, AND Keyblades to unlock Doors, Keyholes etc., just so they can fight with swords instead of Keyblades?

That's genius there.

Not true. Aladdin and Auron both wield swords, and can do damage to Heartless/Nobodies when in your party. Leon is technically a swordsman, but is somehow capable of fighting Heartless without being outnumbered. Riku used a sword in Chain of Memories, and killed many a Heartless, not to mention Lexaeus, a major Nobody. And, if you play KH1 from Hollow Bastion, after Riku steals your Keyblade, you'll see the Wooden Sword does a very small amount of damage to the Heartless. Keyblades just happen to frighten the Heartless, which they could do if they were, say, a necklace or something similar.

Knowing your topic before you enter a debate is very important.

[The Mog Ninja]

OK

So they carry around swords, which do hardly any damage to Heartless or Nobodies, AND Keyblades to unlock doors, Keyholes etc., just so they can fight with swords instead of Keyblades?

That's genius there.

And even if they were as effective as Keyblades, why would you want to take around more than they already have?

[Advent VII]

Cloud and squalls swords seemed to do just fine against heartless and whatnot in hollow bastion...

The game developers could have easliy not have made the keyblade the main wepon of the game, using some other item or skill to unlock doors. It just looks better, and the parents that happen to walk by the tv while their 10 year old is playing wont be as alarmed to see a boy running around bashing things with a giant key, then hoisting a big sharp broadsword and decapitating everything.

[The Mog Ninja]

Cloud and squalls swords seemed to do just fine against heartless and whatnot in hollow bastion...

The game developers could have easliy not have made the keyblade the main wepon of the game, using some other item or skill to unlock doors. It just looks better, and the parents that happen to walk by the tv while their 10 year old is playing wont be as alarmed to see a boy running around bashing things with a giant key, then hoisting a big sharp broadsword and decapitating everything.

Hehe, decaptitating...

[Firo Volondé]

Cloud and squalls swords seemed to do just fine against heartless and whatnot in hollow bastion...

The game developers could have easliy not have made the keyblade the main wepon of the game, using some other item or skill to unlock doors. It just looks better, and the parents that happen to walk by the tv while their 10 year old is playing wont be as alarmed to see a boy running around bashing things with a giant key, then hoisting a big sharp broadsword and decapitating everything.

Exactly. Which links back to my main contention, KH is for kids.

And KHK, you're twisting my words. The Wooden Sword does very little damage. Metal swords do as much, if not more damage, than Keyblades.

[The Mog Ninja]

Not true. Aladdin. not to mention Lexaeus, a major Nobody.

Ahem, Aladdin wields a Scimitar. And Lexaeus Wields a massive Tomahawk thank you.

My hero!

[Tavrobel]

Not true. Aladdin. not to mention Lexaeus, a major Nobody.

Ahem, Aladdin wields a Scimitar. And Lexaeus Wields a massive Tomahawk thank you.

He wasn't implying that Lexaeus used a sword. He was saying that Lexaeus was killed by a sword-user, which was reinforcing his point that swords deal damage in this game.

Xemnas-Lightsabers (Star Wars is just Samurai in space)
Lexaeus-Axe (Tomahawks are axes)
Zexion-Book (To those who understand this, you deserve to understand this)
Saïx-Sword (Claymores are swords)
Tidus-Wooden Sword (he owns your HP)
Sephiroth-Sword

[arcanedude34]

At first I thought the game was comletely stupid and childish, but like most Final Fantasies, once I looked deeper into the game/plot, I loved it.

I would never call it childish nowadays.

[Firo Volondé]

Not true. Aladdin. not to mention Lexaeus, a major Nobody.

Ahem, Aladdin wields a Scimitar. And Lexaeus Wields a massive Tomahawk thank you.

Scimitar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scimitar)


A scimitar is a sword with a curved blade design finding its origins in western Asia (Middle East)

Oh, and I didn't even bring Lexaeus up, I said he was killed by Riku. Read my post more carefully before you reply.

KHK, you should find yourself a new hero, preferably one not so full of fail. I would recommend Tavrobel.

[The Mog Ninja]

Recently, everyone seems to be taking the internet too seriously. Just chill out (not you Tav, you're cool)

[Ace14]

Wow on edge much, Firo and Balthier you guys should just chill. I think it's just the disney that makes the game childish. Final Fantasy makes it better but the disney...bleh. If there were no disney characters then there would be less corny moments, but that would lead to no plot because they need the disney characters for worlds and such. So yeah I don't think it's that childish, just a little so it can appeal to younger children as well as older ones.

[Kanshisha]

Having disney in games just make it MORE fun!!

[Eiko Guy]

Down firo down. KHK you do tend to fanboy a little about KH.

I think the game has it's childish moments but many games do this. Every game you play has that one scene where you feel something that the game creator wasn't trying to make you feel. It's a fact of gaming. You will percieve things differently.

In KH2 the 1000 heartless war was so down played I was pissed. I pretty much didn't have to work to kill them which is what i wanted. I was supposed to fel like sora was some huge badass with amaing strength. BUt I actually felt that they cheated me on a huge battle that I was looking forward to. I got used to it and now I'm over it.

[Firo Volondé]

I am starting to hate Firo Volonde, Basicly everything I do, You just HAVE to start denieing, just BACK OFF.

No, you back off. You started it, all I'm doing is defending my own argument. You mis-quote me, saying stuff like "Laexaeus wields a tomahawk" when I never claimed it was a sword. You're just mad because you can't push me around.


"Oh, your just SOOO full of fail... " Stop making people feel bad, no wonder people suicide...

Oh, this is classic. I'm the reason people commit suicide? Get real. As they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you can't take what you dish out, maybe you shouldn't pick fights, hm?


How is it a baby game? Yes it is for kids (12+) but that does not stop adults from playing the game as well, like, The Wii minigames, they have "cartoony" Graphics, yet lots of adults love to play it

So? Anime is "cartoony", and many kinds happen to be very gruesome or sexually explicit, therefore kids should be exposed to it? I don't think KH is a kids-exclusive game, by any stretch of the imagination; but if you were to sort all games into two groups, "adult games" and "baby games", KH would definitely go into the latter category. This is the main point of this thread, whether you agree with the guy who called it a baby game.


Just because KHII have som Corny moments, does not make it a BABY GAME.

Not just some corny moments. The whole main plot was corny; light versus darkness. In many games and movies, both the protagonist and the main villain have shades of grey; the hero isn't entirely good, the badguy isn't entirely evil. Now, in KH, Sora is basically a personification of light, while Org. XIII is pure evil. While certain characters like Axel and Roxas are good, they're strictly in the minority. With this and other innocent characteristics, such as lack of violence and sexual references, make KH very kid-friendly, and therefore a baby game when compared to series like Final Fantasy. That is what I am arguing. Nothing more.

That's all I've got to say to this thread. I guess I am getting too worked up over it. :mad:

[50calCerberus]

its not childish they just dont get to deep with romance and crap like that

[Tavrobel]

Firo.. look. I think your soo Mr/Miss Brainiac, I mean, Your getting every bit of information from the game and doing like a essay about it. And your "Adult" and "Kid" Category. I think KHII would fit just nicely under the "Pre-teens" and "teens" Category.

And Anime. Sexual explicit? No.

Anime has a sub-category called Hentai. THATS sexual. the rest of anime is not. Thats Pokemon, Naruto....

The rest of anime is not?
Cowboy Bebop
Rurouni Kenshin
Fate/Stay night
Melancholy of Haruhi
1999/X

These amongst others could hardly be considered childish, and none of them are sexually explicit (F/SN could be argued, but the best that you get is a naked 10 year old homonculus, who by definition, is the protagonist's younger sister). I suggest you expand your own definition of what is anime and what is not, before you attempt to impose your beliefs, flawed as they are and full of misconceptions due to a lack of information, on others.

Are you even sure that you know what hentai is? It doesn't mean pornographic. It means perverted. Pornographic animation is simply pornographic animation, split into categories that describe it. Furthermore, I do not believe that you are on any grounds to argue a point with Firo, as you misquoted his text, and countered it. You can only quote if you do not change the meaning of his wording.



Aladdin and Auron both wield swords, and can do damage to Heartless/Nobodies when in your party. Leon is technically a swordsman, but is somehow capable of fighting Heartless without being outnumbered. Riku used a sword in Chain of Memories, and killed many a Heartless, not to mention Lexaeus, a major Nobody.




Not true. Aladdin. not to mention Lexaeus, a major Nobody.

Notice the difference between the two quotes. One has a fully constructed train of thought with supporting evidence. The other one is a poorly paraphrased, and additionally, changes the original intention. If I were to read the second example, I might be led to believe that Firo was stating that Lexeus used a sword. A full stop (period) makes a difference, especially in placement. If you'd like, I can deconstruct his entire argument, phrase by phrase, lingustically and point out every point where an error was made in the "translation."

In regards to the topic, Firo, I disagree that OXIII could be considered pure evil. At best they are slightly grey group of antagonists who were thrown into an impossible situation. Given the choice either to wander alone in pain and confusion or to organize and attempt to progress, most would choose the latter.

OXIII was formed from the remnants of those who willingly gave up their Hearts in exchange for power. Cliched as this is, it is not a childish premise for one person to exchange highly valued things for others of which they seek. If you stop to think about it, most of the corny scenes in KHII involve Square-created characters. Seifer's "we totally owned you lamers," and Sora's constant aloof-ness and dumbfoundedness form the core of many more of what can only be decribed as awkward moments.

Roxas isn't very "good," either. He's more of a bastard than Xemnas as evidenced by the game. He attacks Riku with little to no provocation (Riku never tells him that he's going to turn him into zeroes and ones). He is more concerned with himself than the aims of the Organization, a group of like-non-hearted non-individuals who share the common loss of greed and misinformation. Despite his new identity, he is still hostile and a big jerk when it comes to friends, abandoning them multiple times. In comparison to Sora, he's far more dangerous to those around him, especially since his AoE is better and has a difference of approximately 2880 HP.

Furthermore, I believe that your objection to this game as being mature is somewhat flawed, even if technically true. To compare this game to Final Fantasies, rather than to argue it as being a standalone work denies the original intention of both sets of games. As KH stands by itself, it is a fairly mature game; it would be more appropriate to classify KHII as young adult. I would otherwise agree with you on the childishness, if it were not for the basis of the situation being "lol ff rulez all and r teh bettar pr0ns."

[Hazzard]

Balthier Rocks - You really need to stop taking a minor debate on the net so personally, Firo's only proving a point, also your point about Anime being linked to Hentai is wrong, because their both separate types of "Cartoon" Anime does have sexual scenes in it, I could name a list, and Pokemon and Naruto aren't the only animes in the category, you know? Start watching the more matured animes and you'll know what I mean.

Kingdom Hearts is in the middle of both "Childish" and "Adult" ratings for me. I think the game was generally formatted for a younger gamers perspective, but could easily fit the taste for a less picky gamer as well. I found it amusing, and didn't really take notice of the babyish moments, but still saw the matureness in some of the game's scenes, the plot was deep and not "kid-friendly" although they didn't want to show deaths in the game, their obviously was a few, for example, they would never show Ansem being blown to pieces...

The rest has been thoroughly briefed over by Tavrobel, and yeah, let this debate continue.

[BardTard]

I don't think it's babyish, but even if it was I don't think that's a bad thing.

[Formalhaut]

Start watching the more matured animes and you'll know what I mean.

Im 12, do you really want a Young Kid watching some "Mature" Anime/hentai? Thats really quite wrong.





Oh, and Btw, Ill be deleateing all posts ive posted in this thread. Good bye.

[demondude]

Start watching the more matured animes and you'll know what I mean.

Im 12, do you really want a Young Kid watching some "Mature" Anime/hentai? Thats really quite wrong.





Oh, and Btw, Ill be deleateing all posts ive posted in this thread. Good bye.

Theres a difference between mature and porn you know.

[Tavrobel]

Im 12

Well, this explains everything.

[Psychotic]

The following posts are not cool:

KHK, you should find yourself a new hero, preferably one not so full of fail.
I am starting to hate Firo Volonde, Basicly everything I do, You just HAVE to start denieing, just BACK OFF. "Oh, your just SOOO full of fail... " Stop making people feel bad, no wonder people suicide...

Im 12

Well, this explains everything.No more, please, or the thread will be closed and official warnings will be given out to those who make 'em. Thank you for your time!

[Ace14]

Wow, well like I said before Disney ruined it all. If you couldn't tell I don't like disney related things except Kingdom Hearts, that's why I think disney made the game childish. It could've been better with just final fantasy. So I think it is disney which is childish (which it is supposed to be) and not kingdom hearts. Kingdom Hearts could've been good if it wasn't for childishness made by disney. :mad: Oh well it's still a good game. :D

[Hazzard]

Start watching the more matured animes and you'll know what I mean.

Im 12, do you really want a Young Kid watching some "Mature" Anime/hentai? Thats really quite wrong.





Oh, and Btw, Ill be deleateing all posts ive posted in this thread. Good bye.

Theres a difference between mature and porn you know.

When did I state porn was mature?

[50calCerberus]

wow...thats alot of text for describing stuff...i think this is the most text in a thread ive read lol...i think hentai is messed up...they drawl the chicks with women bodies but child faces...thats just wrong its f'd up

[LunarWeaver]

Whoaaaa! Well, it is rated E for everyone and it is accessible to children very much on purpose. But like the many Disney movies it incorporates, its charm transcends age.

Not every game has to have blood and such to be enjoyable. That only pushes the stereotype all gamers want great amounts of violence and the word :skull::skull::skull::skull: or they refuse to give it a chance! :(

[Tavrobel]

I fail to see where Psychotic attacked you, Balthier Rocks. I also fail to see where Lunar actually supports your statement(s), as opposed to giving his opinion on the situation, which as far as I can see, does not agree with yours on which his thought level processes. Stop trying to pick a fight with everyone.

[Formalhaut]

No people Pick A Fight with me. Im just trying to defend myself.


Im not taking any part in this thread anymore.

1) making me stressed
2) Raising my blood pressure
3) Chance of a early heart Attack

After 4 Days this post and all other posts I make will be deleted in 3 days. Good bye.

3 Days To deletion.

[Hazzard]

Gosh, you take the internet too seriously...nobodies attacking anyone, we're all here to try tell our opinions on the original question, and this has changed into something completely different. Cool it, Balthier Rocks, cause you are getting too stressed out over minor things.

I kinda agree with Lunar, KH is a happy-go game, I'd say, nothing too mind grueling and appropriately made to let gamers enjoy their selves, so I guess it done the job for me.

[Formalhaut]

cause you are getting too stressed out over minor things.

Hey! Thats me.

3 Days to deletion

[The Mog Ninja]

i think hentai is messed up...they drawl the chicks with women bodies but child faces...thats just wrong its f'd up

It's spelt "good"

[Ace14]

Wow still talk about arguments and hentai, you guys never quit do you? My opinion keeps changing about this game for some reason, it is childish I guess but it's supposed to be to appeal to younger people. I guess even without the disney it would be a little childish.

[Lawr]

As long as it's fun, who cares?

[50calCerberus]

i wasnt talkign about kingdom hearts ...they mentioned hentai and i was saying how it was messed up...im noyt sayn all hentais messed up jus when someone takes our favorite anime and video game characters and puts them in that situation its jus messed up u kno...especially if its supposed to be a young chick from that anime or video game...anyway srry for goin off subject.


i agree if kh hearts is fun who cares

[Formalhaut]

Wow still talk about arguments and hentai, you guys never quit do you? My opinion keeps changing about this game for some reason, it is childish I guess but it's supposed to be to appeal to younger people. I guess even without the disney it would be a little childish.

I have, its them pileing on the "Pressure"

3 Days To Deletion

[50calCerberus]

Wow still talk about arguments and hentai, you guys never quit do you? My opinion keeps changing about this game for some reason, it is childish I guess but it's supposed to be to appeal to younger people. I guess even without the disney it would be a little childish.

I have, its them pileing on the "Pressure"

3 Days To Deletion
uhh wats that gotta do with the thing u jus quoted:confused:

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

*ignores most of what is said* Kingdom Hearts series has something everyone can enjoy. It does has it childish moments and such but at the same time there is more depth and a slight dark side to Kingdom Hearts as well. There are themes that can be appreciated by both kids and older teens. The whole beginning concept of wanting to travel the world is something most kids can relate to; the whole idea of the innate darkness within oneself less so. Personally, when I first played Kingdom Hearts some aspects of it reminded me a lot of William Golding's Lord of the Flies.

Also, Disney does not mean everything is child-like. Their main audience is younger kids, but in general the family. My roommate pointed this out once about Disney movies. The example was a Cars commercial. There was a reference to the 60s and excessive usage of drugs (something along the lines of "The sixties were not kind to you"). The reference would be something that would go over the head of most 8 year-olds yet an adult could easily understand what is being implied.

So yes, Kingdom Hearts does have its childness about it but it can be pretty serious as well. To say it is completely one or the other is to lack a true appreciation of the game. Then again, I am just a fanboy of the series. :/

[Formalhaut]

The most reasonal post made in this thread thus far.

3 Days To Deleation

[Psychotic]

Balthier Rocks, just because you delete your posts, it does not mean you can evade the consequences of breaking the rules, which is what you did. I'm not "on your back". I don't know you personally and I don't really care what views you hold on this subject; I am doing my duty as a moderator and I asked you - and two others - not to break the rules. I don't understand how that can be construed as me having a personal vendetta against you, but if you seek reassurance, then here it is: I do not have a personal vendetta against you, or any of the others I warned.

Oh, and as you obviously missed it:
No more, please, or the thread will be closed