Could Operation Mi'ihen have worked?

[cally777]

Auron and Mika thought not, but I wonder. At least the idea of using machina to destroy Sin had something going for it. (MAJOR SPOILER coming)

Remember that what usually happened over and over was this: a summoner used one of their guardians as the fayth of the Final Aeon, and tried to defeat Sin with it. But if they succeeded, Yu Yevon would possess the Final Aeon, kill the summoner and use it to form a new Sin.

So if Sin could somehow be destroyed by machina, there would be no Final Aeon for YY to take over, and he would apparently be up the proverbial creek. Also considering he is not exactly the ultimate boss when left on his own

Obviously the problem is getting a machina (or two) powerful enough to defeat Sin, but the one the Al Bhed used looked to me like it was getting close. Maybe if the Al Bhed had teamed up with the Yevon priesthood intead ... they had some pretty good machina hidden away. It could have worked, no?

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[Tavrobel]

The machina used was very likely the result of many years of testing and research. Consider that Sin's purpose is to prevent technological advancement, it's very much a guarantee that the Operation would not have worked. Sin wasn't breaking a sweat at all, even when it turned onto full power. Not even the airship was built solely for war, and likely dates from the time of old Bevelle; which was promptly sent to its knees.

Sure, the beam got real close to his shield, but remember that Sin isn't defenseless. He's covered by repeating layers of Sinscales that flake off, and not only that, he's got an entire undead city inside of him. Okay they break the shield, but how do they deal with what's inside? Yu Yevon is very strict and regulatory about his Armor.

Short answer, no. Long answer, no.

If you bring in FFX-2, maybe, but still unlikely.

[Hazzard]

I doubt it, even if they did somehow break through the Sin barrier, they would obviously be all killed by the possessed Jecht, Braska's Final Aeon.
Yuna and the gang were not realistically ready to fight him, also, I think machina can't even destroy layers of Sin's skin, natural power does that I'm guessing.

[cally777]

If you bring in FFX-2, maybe, but still unlikely.I take it here you refer to Mr Vegnagun. I was thinking of that, although this is not supposed to be a Veg V Sin thread per se.

So then the idea is sound in theory. And maybe in practice. Apart from Veggy, there were a whole lot of mechs available to Yevon (though of course they couldn't admit it). Imagine a whole army of Y2Ks or whatever boarding Sin (perhaps via the airship). That would have stuck it up YY's orifice (or maybe kicked his butt :D )

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[Goldenboko]

In my opinion, maybe if they hadn't rushed. That tower thing got real close, but wasn't enough, and even if it broke through, they still have to get through the layers of Sin. Maybe if they got to salvage 2 or 3 more then, they probably could've at least done some damage. The problem is Sin would've killed them before they got the chance. IMO it would've been possible to defeat Sin -if- the people of Spira didn't believe so strongly in Yevon. During the calm they should've been gathering machina, and having a Summoner getting ready to bring another calm, so that way they have more time.

[Hazzard]

I blame it on Mika...he's know so much vital information, but never had the audacity to not even lecture summoners and the people of Yevon what to do, he had the chance to put his all into exterminating Sin but didn't really care. Maybe cause he become an unsent, he lost all his care for the people of Spira and preferred to be the living undead like Seymour.

[cally777]

In my opinion, maybe if they hadn't rushed. That tower thing got real close, but wasn't enough, and even if it broke through, they still have to get through the layers of Sin. Maybe if they got to salvage 2 or 3 more then, they probably could've at least done some damageExactly, they just needed more support and preparation, plus Yevon to be with them rather than against them.


During the calm they should've been gathering machina, and having a Summoner getting ready to bring another calm, so that way they have more time. Well yeah, though the problem with defeating Sin by Final Aeon is that it actually makes it more powerful ie any Final Aeon good enough to beat Sin becomes it eventually. Like survival of the fittest.

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[Tavrobel]

So then the idea is sound in theory. And maybe in practice. Apart from Veggy, there were a whole lot of mechs available to Yevon (though of course they couldn't admit it). Imagine a whole army of Y2Ks or whatever boarding Sin (perhaps via the airship). That would have stuck it up YY's orifice (or maybe kicked his butt :D )


I blame it on Mika...he's know so much vital information.

There is absolutely no way Mika would have revealed that information if he had known it during his natural lifetime (he probably didn't), nor would he have enforced military might through machina. Being a leader is not just being a figurehead, but also what is to be done in the best interest of the people. After he's dead, he's just being a jerk, so he wouldn't have given the information afterwards.

If he had told them that everything was a sham, the world would have erupted into pure and utter chaos, and Sin definitely would have destroyed everything. The entire world structure would collapse; imagine the Dark Ages, only this time, it includes the Americas and the Far East. Not only would you repeat a needless war, but you have brought a third party into it, one that is inherently destructive.

[LunarWeaver]

I honestly think would have at least had a chance if all of Spira worked together. Maybe...The best weapons are made during war, after all. But like Sir Taffy said, Sin always kept that from happening, so nothing powerful enough would ever get made as things were. Besides, humans (or other races as Spira has them) have never broken their self-made factions to fight as a unit no matter what the threat is. If aliens attacked earth and had superior weapons, humankind would not bond together to fight them as one, we would each fight as separate countries and we would all die. I suppose they got close singing the hymn altogether at the end, but look at what Yuna and company had to go through just to get that done.

Plus, to the player, Sin isn't very tough. I mean, Tidus is able to whack away at him for 99,999 damage. Gameplay-wise, he's not very threatening. But within the world and within the plot, he's supposed to be an almighty badass. Enemies get special powers in cutscene-land, so I just doubt many machica in any number would defeat him there.

[cally777]

If he had told them that everything was a sham, the world would have erupted into pure and utter chaos, and Sin definitely would have destroyed everything. The entire world structure would collapse; imagine the Dark Ages, only this time, it includes the Americas and the Far East. Not only would you repeat a needless war, but you have brought a third party into it, one that is inherently destructive.Erk! I feel such a bad person for suggesting it! But suppose the machina had at least destroyed Sin and YY first. Even rampaging machines like VG would have been better than the cycle of death endlessly repeated. After all, with machina, you can just shaky-shake up to them and take em apart!

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[Tavrobel]

Are you sure about that? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminator_%28film%29)

[cally777]

Course, Rikku knew what she was talking about! :rolleyes2 As long as there's an off-switch...

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[Renmiri]

to the player, Sin isn't very tough. I mean, Tidus is able to whack away at him for 99,999 damage. Gameplay-wise, he's not very threatening. But within the world and within the plot, he's supposed to be an almighty badass. Enemies get special powers in cutscene-land, so I just doubt many machica in any number would defeat him there.

Within the plot, Jecht contained Sin to allow Tidus and the gang to attack it from the inside. Without Jecht's link to Tidus no one could get that close. Witness Sin's attck of Dream Zanarkand or Operation Mi'hen itself. The trouble was getting near enough Sin to attack it where it was vulnerable.

[Tavrobel]

Course, Rikku knew what she was talking about! :rolleyes2 As long as there's an off-switch...

I think you missed the point of my statement. Or the hyperlink.

[cally777]

I think you missed the point of my statement. Or the hyperlink.

I did, and now I get it. I'll be back though.

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[Firo Volondé]

What I want to know is why Maechen didn't do anything? From X-2, we know he was around at Yunalesca's time. He spends a fair bit of time chatting to you at Gagazet, detailing the entire history of the Machina War, and I'm sure he would have known of or at least suspected the existence of Yu-Yevon. Being unsent, he could have easily got close enough to Sin to launch an assault on YY. Plus, he's not exactly defenseless; X-2 implies that he's a black mage.

[blackmage_nuke]

What i didnt get was why the monster arena guy didnt just get some of his original creations and sick them on Sin, because they are so clearly stronger. He wouldve been a hero.

If sin uses steal on machina it would just fall apart :p

[jeo2388]

What i didnt get was why the monster arena guy didnt just get some of his original creations and sick them on Sin, because they are so clearly stronger. He wouldve been a hero.

If sin uses steal on machina it would just fall apart :p

:D yeah i never thought of that lol

[Tavrobel]

What i didnt get was why the monster arena guy didnt just get some of his original creations and sick them on Sin, because they are so clearly stronger. He wouldve been a hero.

If sin uses steal on machina it would just fall apart :p

Because they would be worse. They are still Fiends. All he does is keep them under control for training.

[cally777]

If sin uses steal on machina it would just fall apart
The idea of Sin tiptoeing up behind a machina ...

What it comes down to though is: were the Al Bhed's machina "as powerful as the mighty aeons" as they claimed, or not. If they were, they could beat Sin the same way that Summoners did with the Final Aeon (however that was), but without Sin coming back. A big improvement.

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[Goldenboko]

What i didnt get was why the monster arena guy didnt just get some of his original creations and sick them on Sin, because they are so clearly stronger. He wouldve been a hero.

If sin uses steal on machina it would just fall apart :p

Because they would be worse. They are still Fiends. All he does is keep them under control for training.
But at least they don't respawn after you've killed them, and if you used the Final Aeon on one of them then the Aeon wouldn't go nuts and kill the summoner either.

[Tavrobel]

My wasted 25000 Gil says otherwise.

[cally777]

These alternative methods of beating Sin are very interesting ... I just don't recall Operation Mi'hen being spearheaded by Maechen and the Arena guy, closely followed by Nemesis, Neslug, Catastrophe, Shinryu, a Jumbo Flan* etc. :mad:

(*There must always be a Jumbo Flan). :tongue:

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[No.78]

Maybe the monster arena dude was extremely religious? :P

[RpgN]

Maechen knows lots of stuff happened in the world of Spira, but that doesn't mean he knows everything. It seems the things that he talks about is general information of what happened and what he saw for all these 2002 years. He couldn't have known if lord Mika was an unsent, right? It seems only when the unsent show themselves, you can see them. Just like Auron and more. Unless you're a guado of course :p

And that guy from the monster arena...Those are fiends that Sin can control them. These powerful friends can turn against Tidus and co :(

[tidus_rox]

Well, just think - if it DID work, how disapointed would we all be?

[pspkilla]

I think that if they used Vegnagun it might just have worked, because in FFX-2 Vegnagun has the power to destroy all of Spira with one attack! So if they used Vegnagun then yes Sin would have been owned! lol

[Peter_20]

It would work - in theory.
I don't doubt that lots of machina could've destroyed Sin, but it'd take *lots* of machina, and this only to destroy Sin's barrier.
And then they'd have to deal with the undead city as well.

...but it is theoretically possible; they just have to use enough machina.

[Radje]

"I'm not scared of any machine. If they have been made by humans, they can be turned off by humans."

"Really? So how do you turn off the internet?"

Think about it.

[Washington is next]

Machina can't beat sin..

[Goldenboko]

"I'm not scared of any machine. If they have been made by humans, they can be turned off by humans."

"Really? So how do you turn off the internet?"

Think about it.

You break all of the internet recievers near you. Your neighbors may be infected with the high-tech scum, but at least you will be free of filth :P

[Tabris]

Well, for a moment there, it looked like Sin's bubble was going to burst. It seemed to me that with more power and stamina in the machina, they would have made it.

Of course, I guess that would only have made a hole in the Sin-shell, and they would have to battle BFA. That could be done without a Final Aeon, though.