Which Villain Accomplished The Most?

[Forsaken Lover]

Adding up everything they did and succeeded in doing, which villain did the best overall?

[Dr. Acula]

Kefka, I think.

[Ramza Beoulve]

I would say Delita, but he isn't really a "villain", and he loses everything in reality.

But yeah, Kefka, I think.

*EDITGAAA!!!* Marche :cool:

[Dr. Acula]

*EDITGAAA!!!* Marche :cool:

I've changed my mind. Marche it is.:D

[Elpizo]

Xande, Exdeath or Kuja. I won't choose between my three favourite villains, so I'll just name all three of them. Kefka did manage to achieve his goal as well... Or at least almost.

[aquatius]

Kuja of course, DUH!

[PeneloRatsbane]

Vayne did pretty well, he killed most his family, got a decent job. he just got a bit power hungry in the end

[Gilthanes]

Exdeath accomplished alot yeah, and similar to what Kefka did. However Exeaths accomplishment wasnt nearly as devastating to the people of the planet(s) as what Kefka did. Exdeath merged the worlds, blahblah, but Kefka flat out ravaged his. Not only did Kefka succeed in rearranging the face of the planet and killing countless people in the process, he continued to destroy towns and people for the fun of it, all while you struggled to reorganize your troops. The damage Kefta did to the planet would also never be completely fixed once he was killed. You could rebuild, but the planet would always be changed

[Slothy]

Exdeath accomplished alot yeah, and similar to what Kefka did. However Exeaths accomplishment wasnt nearly as devastating to the people of the planet(s) as what Kefka did. Exdeath merged the worlds, blahblah, but Kefka flat out ravaged his. Not only did Kefka succeed in rearranging the face of the planet and killing countless people in the process, he continued to destroy towns and people for the fun of it, all while you struggled to reorganize your troops. The damage Kefta did to the planet would also never be completely fixed once he was killed. You could rebuild, but the planet would always be changed

You saved me the explanation. Kefka.

[Firo Volondé]

Probably Kefka, though I would say Marche if I considered him the villain, which I don't. Yu-Yevon may not have done much, but he gets the prize for longevity; he achieved his goal (preserving the memory of Zanarkand through DZ) and maintained it for 1000 years, unlike Kefka, who terrorised the world for a little over a year.

[aquatius]

Kuja managed to kill like, two planets or whatever.

[Gilthanes]

Kuja destroyed Terra. The only reason I rank Kefka above him is the fact that the planet he destroyed wasnt even the main planet that the story mostly took place on. Instead of merging the 2 planets like he was supposed to, he just blew one up in a fit of uncontrolled rage. Although in terms of pure power Kuja is probably stronger than Kefka, Kuja didnt accomplish that much imo

[The Ceej]

Gilthanes said it all. Kefka is the answer.

[,,,]

Tough call between Kefka and Kuja. My bias wants to say Kefka. Let me think. On one hand, Kuja outright destroyed a world, while Kefka rearranged and crapified a world, but left it intact enough to rebuild. But the world Kuja destroyed didn't really seem to have much on it other than rocks and one city of emotionless, manufactured inhabitants. So the winner there isn't exactly clear.

Well, if we're going to assume Terra only had the one city, which I do, then his one city doesn't quite add up to Kefka's total. So Kefka wins. I'm happy.

[Jessweeee♪]

I've only finished FFIV and FFVII and beyond, and out of those, I'd say Ulty.

[Gilthanes]

curse that squid...

[The Crystal]

Yu-Yevon may not have done much, but he gets the prize for longevity; he achieved his goal (preserving the memory of Zanarkand through DZ) and maintained it for 1000 years, unlike Kefka, who terrorised the world for a little over a year.

I agree. Yu Yevon is the winner.

[Serapy]

Ultimecia, she has been alive for most years, probably since the creation of mankind in the game.

[PuPu]

I would say Kefka, since he did manage to accomplish all of his goals except for the end of the game when he tried to end all life. Of course the heroes absolutely had to win at that point.


Ultimecia, she has been alive for most years, probably since the creation of mankind in the game.
Where is the proof of this?

[jammi567]

They're joking, because they're trying to make it out that she's the best villian ever! (which is, of course, totally true).

[Necronopticous]

TunnelArmr.

[DarkLadyNyara]

Kefka. Destroyed the world, and became a god. Kinda hard to beat that.

[Comet]

Technically, Ultemicia, because all she tried to accomplish was Time Compression, which happened.

[Psychotic]

Kefka and X-Death both did quite a number on their respective worlds.

[Serapy]

I would say Kefka, since he did manage to accomplish all of his goals except for the end of the game when he tried to end all life. Of course the heroes absolutely had to win at that point.


Ultimecia, she has been alive for most years, probably since the creation of mankind in the game.
Where is the proof of this?

As far as I know, there's no proof that how long has Ultimecia been alive, how long has she been achieving her goals or how many goals has she succeeded, either, unless you show me the proof. So it's pretty much self explanatory. And yeah, time compression was indeed awesome, I could say it's pretty overpowered.

[Vermachtnis]

Kefka. For get what everyone else said. He's the only one who has accomplished the most perfect laugh!

[Slothy]

Kefka. Destroyed the world, and became a god. Kinda hard to beat that.

Technically, he absorbed the power of three gods. No one else can touch that.

[PuPu]

As far as I know, there's no proof that how long has Ultimecia been alive, how long has she been achieving her goals or how many goals has she succeeded, either, unless you show me the proof.
If you have no proof to support what your saying, then you can't say it is true, no matter what.

But if you want my proof, then the proof is that in the game of FF8, the characters specifically say that Ultimecia is a sorceress from the future. And think about where you went to go fight her. In the future.

Though when it comes down to it, none of this really matters. How long you live isn't really an accomplishment that really determines how accomplished a villain compared to things like destroying things, and achieving power.

[Slothy]

Though when it comes down to it, none of this really matters. How long you live isn't really an accomplishment that really determines how accomplished a villain compared to things like destroying things, and achieving power.

Agreed. If anything, it would be worse for Ultimecia if she'd been alive since the dawn of FFVIII civilization and still accomplished as little as she did.

[aquatius]

Kefka. Destroyed the world, and became a god. Kinda hard to beat that.
Kuja destroyed two planets.

[Rengori]

Kefka, for saying, "Son of a Submariner!"

[Forsaken Lover]

Kuja destroyed two planets.

Technically, it was only one.

While Kuja caused havoc across Gaia first by manipulating Brahne and then forcing the iifa Tree's roots to burst through the ground, the planet wasn't in any state of ruin.

[Monsey]

Dude its got to be sephiroth.When he does that move at the end of ffvii dosent he destroy jupiter, the largest planet?

[PuPu]

Dude its got to be sephiroth.When he does that move at the end of ffvii dosent he destroy jupiter, the largest planet?
That is just a cool battle animation made to impress people. If you use that to determine his power, it would make no sense because he supposedly destroyed the sun and Earth as well. And if Earth really did get blown up by the sun, nobody could survive that. But it is clearly shown that your characters are still alive, and Earth is still intact after you manage to beat Sephiroth.

[50calCerberus]

ive never heard of any of these villians except kuja and sepiroth...who hasn heard of him lol...pleez tell me who is kefka exdeath and the other ones and which ff are they from:confused: :confused:

[Goldenboko]

ive never heard of any of these villians except kuja and sepiroth...who hasn heard of him lol...pleez tell me who is kefka exdeath and the other ones and which ff are they from:confused: :confused:

Kefka FFVI
ExDeath FFV
You should really play the older games, they're just as good, if not better, then the 3D ones.


Kefka, when it comes down to it no matter how much I love Kuja, Kefka did a bit more.

Kuja destroyed a Small, dying planet. All of the people there survived as well, by moving to Gaia.
Kefka destroyed (basically) a large, living, thriving planet, and killed, presumably, millions.

[Gilthanes]

And Exdeath basically succeeded in what Kuja originally planned to do, merging 2 planets together- although the act of which probably wasnt nearly as lethal to the inhabitants of both planets as Kefkas actions to his world. Exdeath just made Planet A and Planet B into Planet A+B

[50calCerberus]

dang sound like some badazz villians lol...kefka sounds the worst...i would say sepiroth but he only attempted to destroy the planet right:confused:

[The Crystal]

It's funny that most people in this thread believe that a villain is successful ONLY if he/she/it destroyed the world or caused damage to it.
The villains who didn't want to destroy the world then, didn't achieve anything, right?

[Gilthanes]

Its not that you have to destroy a world, but I would consider the most accomplished villain would be one who did exactly set out what he wanted to do. Not many FF villains actually "win", and although Kefka does die, he did pretty much win at the whole "destroy the planet and murder millions" plan. Most other villains either want to destroy the world, or completely own/rule the world. How many FFs has the main bad guy successfully ruled the world for a significant amount of time, or actually succeed in destroying/dismantling the world?

Garland in 1 didnt actually complete much, however neat his plan was

The Emporer in 2 did get to rule the world for a while, but that was already in place before the game started so I wouldnt even say that counts. As soon as the heroes get innvolved, hes pretty much shut down rather quick

Honestly dont remember the full story of 3, but the main bad guy wasnt even shown until the last 10 minutes of the game, so ya...

Golbez in 4 managed to wreak havoc on the world, but didnt completely rule it and was eventually shut down before he could leave any permanent scars

We've already discussed Exdeath

Then theres Kefka, we know him. Gained power of gods, destroyed the world, killed millions, left the planet permanently disfigured

Sephiroth failed to destroy the planet, the only main thing he set out to do. Hes cool, but he didnt end up accomplishing much (aside from abusing cloud and later allowing him to come to grips with himself)

Eights final boss achieved time compression and was almost immediately fixed by our heroes after they entered time compression and whooped her bad.

Then Kuja, who did well for himself but ultimately not as much as Kefka

Yu Yevon hasnt gotten much praise in this thread, and it should be noted he kept Sin going for a long time, keeping the world in a permanent state of despair and panic for a very very long time.

And Vayne killed people and didnt even finish conquering another kingdom before being taken down

:) Wow I'm bored for typing all that :)

[Elpizo]

Its not that you have to destroy a world, but I would consider the most accomplished villain would be one who did exactly set out what he wanted to do. Not many FF villains actually "win", and although Kefka does die, he did pretty much win at the whole "destroy the planet and murder millions" plan. Most other villains either want to destroy the world, or completely own/rule the world. How many FFs has the main bad guy successfully ruled the world for a significant amount of time, or actually succeed in destroying/dismantling the world?


Destroying/Dismanteling worlds or killing millions does not always make a villain a villain.

Now look at Xande. He won and could enjoy his victory far longer than Kefka, or Kuja or any villain aside from Yu Yevon, if Yevon is a villain (the game doesn't state it). For around 15 years he halted the entire flow of time on the surface world, to halt his own aging proces and thus gain a form of 'immortality', after Noah gave him mirtality as his gift. His goal never was to rule the world. Only to get back his immortality (for we learn he was furious Noah made him mortal). And he succeeded. Well sure, he never expected to become a pawn of the Cloud of Darkness, but hey, stuff happens...

Now if you ask where I get "15 years" from, it's the following: Cid tells us he fled the surface world with his airship when "The Darkness came". That's Xande darkening the surface's Crystals. With his escape he had 4 babies aboard, that being Luneth and co which would later be the Lightwarriors. Seeing as baby is mostly something beteen 0 or 1 year, and Luneth is 17 I believe when he's chosen, that makes for more than 15 years Xande halted the flow of time and enjoyed is victory. If he could enjoy anything while under the Cloud's control, that is.

Only Yu Yevon beats him in time-span. Or maybe Garland, if his 2000 year time-loop actually did something.

Oh, and let's not forget Exdeath did more than merge 2 worlds together. He kinda made big black holes in the world as well. Sure it all returned when he was defeated, but he still made the world a big cheese for a while.

[The Crystal]

Its not that you have to destroy a world, but I would consider the most accomplished villain would be one who did exactly set out what he wanted to do. Not many FF villains actually "win", and although Kefka does die, he did pretty much win at the whole "destroy the planet and murder millions" plan. Most other villains either want to destroy the world, or completely own/rule the world. How many FFs has the main bad guy successfully ruled the world for a significant amount of time, or actually succeed in destroying/dismantling the world?


Destroying/Dismanteling worlds or killing millions does not always make a villain a villain.

Now look at Xande. He won and could enjoy his victory far longer than Kefka, or Kuja or any villain aside from Yu Yevon, if Yevon is a villain (the game doesn't state it). For around 15 years he halted the entire flow of time on the surface world, to halt his own aging proces and thus gain a form of 'immortality', after Noah gave him mirtality as his gift. His goal never was to rule the world. Only to get back his immortality (for we learn he was furious Noah made him mortal). And he succeeded. Well sure, he never expected to become a pawn of the Cloud of Darkness, but hey, stuff happens...

Now if you ask where I get "15 years" from, it's the following: Cid tells us he fled the surface world with his airship when "The Darkness came". That's Xande darkening the surface's Crystals. With his escape he had 4 babies aboard, that being Luneth and co which would later be the Lightwarriors. Seeing as baby is mostly something beteen 0 or 1 year, and Luneth is 17 I believe when he's chosen, that makes for more than 15 years Xande halted the flow of time and enjoyed is victory. If he could enjoy anything while under the Cloud's control, that is.

Only Yu Yevon beats him in time-span. Or maybe Garland, if his 2000 year time-loop actually did something.

Oh, and let's not forget Exdeath did more than merge 2 worlds together. He kinda made big black holes in the world as well. Sure it all returned when he was defeated, but he still made the world a big cheese for a while.

What he said.
We have some villains that accomplished more than Kefka. The problem is that he is almost like Sephiroth. He have so many fanboys/girls, that the other villains are overshadowed by him.

Other villains Elpizo didn't mention but are successful, is Ultimecia(she was the ruler of the world in the future), and Kuja(accomplished his main goal of killing Garland).


Sephiroth failed to destroy the planet, the only main thing he set out to do. Hes cool, but he didnt end up accomplishing much (aside from abusing cloud and later allowing him to come to grips with himself)

Destroying the planet wasn't his plan, it was a side-effect of it. He wanted to gain controll over the Lifestream, and we can say he was partially successful, after using Geostigma to corrupt and controll it.

[The Ceej]

Kefka destroyed (basically) a large, living, thriving planet, and killed, presumably, millions, not including Indians and Chinamen.

Sorry. I couldn't help it. Hope this is as funny a reference to everyone else as it was to me.

[cloud21zidane16]

i say Kuja: teamed up with the queen of the second strongest nation in the world and used her army and his magic to defeat the other two nations.(Lindblum and Buremica/Cleyra)Then killed her and wiped out many of the alexandrian army along with their fleet of warships.

Then attacked Alexandria using summon magic.
Destroys Terra and Annihilates your team, by now he has also escaped from your team many times. Finally faces your team again kills them but then saves them. What a character:D

[,,,]

To be fair, Kefka didn't murder millions. If you go through and count every NPC, there can't be more than a few hundred people in the entire world.

But he still wins.

[Gilthanes]

I never took city/town/castle sizes to be literal as to what you saw in game, If you did you'd have to assume that most people go and squat outside behind a tree to go to the bathroom, and that food was either uncooked or was magically cooked without kitchens.

Same goes for number of npcs you can interact with, and the actual number of people living on a planet.

[Serapy]

But if you want my proof, then the proof is that in the game of FF8, the characters specifically say that Ultimecia is a sorceress from the future. And think about where you went to go fight her. In the future.

Ultimeica is indeed a sorceress from the future, but that doesn't really prove how long has she been alive from the future. That's why I just guessed since it's self explanatory.



Though when it comes down to it, none of this really matters. How long you live isn't really an accomplishment that really determines how accomplished a villain compared to things like destroying things, and achieving power.

It's actually an accomplishment because longest survival proves that you have fought hard enough to survive. Longer survival = came from the potential of having strongest power, but in some cases, it all really depends. If you have died young, that does explain something, declared as a weakness.

The Crystal, I don't see how that's funny, what you said implied that you think you are more intelligent than us...

[The Crystal]

The Crystal, I don't see how that's funny, what you said implied that you think you are more intelligent than us...

Sorry if i give that impression to you. What happens is that i'm a little tired of people who say he is the most accomplished villain, just because he destroyed the world. A villain don't need to destroy or damage a world, to be successful.

[Forsaken Lover]

Kuja destroyed a Small, dying planet.

Sigh.

After four tremendous sacrifices, eternal prosperity seemed within reach...
Flora and fauna were revived, but...is still in stasis.
Final results...are still pending...

Not dying, thanks. Almost at eternal propserity actually.


All of the people there survived as well, by moving to Gaia.

Girl: He awaits where the souls sleep. The floating castle, where souls bide their time until their restoration... Pandemonium.

So, all the original people of Terra were destroyed.

[PuPu]

Ultimeica is indeed a sorceress from the future, but that doesn't really prove how long has she been alive from the future. That's why I just guessed since it's self explanatory.
First of all, if you have no proof to support your claims, then you cannot say it is true no matter what.

Ignoring the fact that you still say you have proved you are right even though your statement was nulled, you don't get it what I'm saying. If she really did exist since the beginning of mankind two things would most likely be true as well:

1. She would have already achieved time compression. She would have millions of years to achieve her goal and most likely would have accomplished it by then. But time was not compressed during Squall's time period.

2. She would have existed in Squall's time period. If a sorceress was alive during that time, people would have known it. People knew about Adel and Edea during their times. And if she existed during that time period, Squall and the gang wouldn't have had to go into the future to fight her.

Also, if she was alive during the creation of mankind, can you prove how she was alive? There is no proof that sorceresses have extended life periods and you also have no proof how she would artificially extend her life period, this does prove that you are purely making up things.


It's actually an accomplishment because longest survival proves that you have fought hard enough to survive. Longer survival = came from the potential of having strongest power, but in some cases, it all really depends. If you have died young, that does explain something, declared as a weakness.
Look at Adel. She was "alive" for about fifty more years because he was put in space into sleep and accomplished nothing. Does that prove that she fought hard to survive?

And also, being born with a longer lifespan does not prove you are stronger than something. Turtles are born with longer lifespans than humans; are they stronger than humans?

Not to mention you again, have no proof Ulti fought hard to survive.

And also, I'd like to add one more thing. Your only argument is: "I can't prove I'm right but you can't prove I'm wrong." If you actually want good debate, find some proof before trying to say things that you think are true.

[Bolivar]

This whole thread is basically a way for fanboys/girls to unleash their biasness against other games.

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town. Sephiroth didn't hide like a girl in his tower away from people and do that from a distance - he killed the people first and burned the b*tch down himself. He had balls.

Emporer Palamecia became the ruler of the world, destroying several towns at a simple order. He had balls.

X-Death also completely wiped several towns out of existence before being foiled. He, too, had balls.

Ultimecia basically killed everything in her own time period, including uncounted generations of SeeD's, elite warriors. She had ovaries.

See where I'm going with this?

[Forsaken Lover]

Sephiroth didnt' go out and kill Aeris. He stayed away in his big hole and manipulated people Hojo had injected with Jenova Cells.

So...it wasn't even his doing. He just got handed people he can control. Not even manipulate which takes brains. he just has power over their screwed up minds.

And if Kefka wanted a city destroyed, he shot a beam of light at it and goodbye.

[The Mog Ninja]

Yu-Yevon and Sin.

[Slothy]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

[Goldenboko]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town. Sephiroth didn't hide like a girl in his tower away from people and do that from a distance - he killed the people first and burned the b*tch down himself. He had balls.

Someone is forgetting about the scene up in the floating island when he rearranged the face of the earth. Or how about taking down 7 espers? Or when at the end of the game he shot his Light of Judgement in all directions because you were annoying him a bit?

[ReloadPsi]

Kefka's the only villain who I think actually won... you had to pull your team back together for a rematch. He gets my vote. Now that the topic's gone on for four pages, doesn't anyone think it's time for a poll?

Come to think of it, FF1's Chaos could be something of a success story too: He caught the world in a 2000 year time loop, grabbed it by the balls, veiled the world in darkness and made everyone live in absolute misery. Over and over again. Thoughts anyone?

[Gilthanes]

I agree, time for a poll. Kefka, Exdeath, Kuja, Ultimecia, Yu Yevon/Sin etc head to head

[Bolivar]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.


Someone is forgetting about the scene up in the floating island when he rearranged the face of the earth. Or how about taking down 7 espers? Or when at the end of the game he shot his Light of Judgement in all directions because you were annoying him a bit?

In which part am I forgetting that? He may have rearranged it but the world was still intact. Seifer killed an Esper and he wasn't even a "god". And the party didn't "annoy him a little bit." They killed him, and in my case and most others, desposed of him with little effort at all. Some "god" lol.

[Goldenboko]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

You're too worried about body counts. Kefka had the entire world fear him far more then Imperial dominance, X-Death, or Ulti did. In all of the other games there where lots of people willing to speak out and resist against the main villain. In FFVI everyone was so afraid of suddenly being blown to bits they didn't dare. Fear, its far worse then just killing someone.

Now continuing on... You're being a graphic whore. He did rearrange the face of the earth, consider the location of each city. The developers didn't go to crazy making everywhere appear rearrange and utterly destroyed because of the timeframe it was made, they could only push the system it was on so far. You seem to use graphics to support your arguments in place we are talking about storyline.

And if you want to talk about body count, think about this. When he moved the statues lots of people died. Remember the scene of the earth changing shape? People where falling into large cracks of the earth to their doom.

EDIT- As for staying behind and poisoning Doma. That proves two things.

1. You have some kind of sense that villains need to be macho, march into places, and kill everything in sight. Thats not a smart villain, that is a dumb one. A smart villain will kill just as much as a macho one without risking death.

2. Kefka was ruthless. He killed his own soldiers while poisoning Doma, I dare you to say that you could make an order like that.

[Lawr]

Ultimecia probably, since you actually fight her in the act of absorbing the Universe.
But maybe Yu-Yevon too, I mean 2000 years is quite a long time.

[Bolivar]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

You're too worried about body counts. Kefka had the entire world fear him far more then Imperial dominance, X-Death, or Ulti did. In all of the other games there where lots of people willing to speak out and resist against the main villain. In FFVI everyone was so afraid of suddenly being blown to bits they didn't dare. Fear, its far worse then just killing someone.

Now continuing on... You're being a graphic whore. He did rearrange the face of the earth, consider the location of each city. The developers didn't go to crazy making everywhere appear rearrange and utterly destroyed because of the timeframe it was made, they could only push the system it was on so far. You seem to use graphics to support your arguments in place we are talking about storyline.

And if you want to talk about body count, think about this. When he moved the statues lots of people died. Remember the scene of the earth changing shape? People where falling into large cracks of the earth to their doom.

EDIT- As for staying behind and poisoning Doma. That proves two things.

1. You have some kind of sense that villains need to be macho, march into places, and kill everything in sight. Thats not a smart villain, that is a dumb one. A smart villain will kill just as much as a macho one without risking death.

2. Kefka was ruthless. He killed his own soldiers while poisoning Doma, I dare you to say that you could make an order like that.

there's so many misinterpretations and red herrings in this post that I am going to refuse to acknowledge it。
啊；拉；拉是俄克，雌蛾，诶！！！！

[Goldenboko]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

You're too worried about body counts. Kefka had the entire world fear him far more then Imperial dominance, X-Death, or Ulti did. In all of the other games there where lots of people willing to speak out and resist against the main villain. In FFVI everyone was so afraid of suddenly being blown to bits they didn't dare. Fear, its far worse then just killing someone.

Now continuing on... You're being a graphic whore. He did rearrange the face of the earth, consider the location of each city. The developers didn't go to crazy making everywhere appear rearrange and utterly destroyed because of the timeframe it was made, they could only push the system it was on so far. You seem to use graphics to support your arguments in place we are talking about storyline.

And if you want to talk about body count, think about this. When he moved the statues lots of people died. Remember the scene of the earth changing shape? People where falling into large cracks of the earth to their doom.

EDIT- As for staying behind and poisoning Doma. That proves two things.

1. You have some kind of sense that villains need to be macho, march into places, and kill everything in sight. Thats not a smart villain, that is a dumb one. A smart villain will kill just as much as a macho one without risking death.

2. Kefka was ruthless. He killed his own soldiers while poisoning Doma, I dare you to say that you could make an order like that.

there's so many misinterpretations and red herrings in this post that I am going to refuse to acknowledge it。
啊；拉；拉是俄克，雌蛾，诶！！！！

What kind of statement is that? If they where so many "misinterpretations and red herrings" you should easily be able to make a response.

[Bolivar]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

You're too worried about body counts. Kefka had the entire world fear him far more then Imperial dominance, X-Death, or Ulti did. In all of the other games there where lots of people willing to speak out and resist against the main villain. In FFVI everyone was so afraid of suddenly being blown to bits they didn't dare. Fear, its far worse then just killing someone.

Now continuing on... You're being a graphic whore. He did rearrange the face of the earth, consider the location of each city. The developers didn't go to crazy making everywhere appear rearrange and utterly destroyed because of the timeframe it was made, they could only push the system it was on so far. You seem to use graphics to support your arguments in place we are talking about storyline.

And if you want to talk about body count, think about this. When he moved the statues lots of people died. Remember the scene of the earth changing shape? People where falling into large cracks of the earth to their doom.

EDIT- As for staying behind and poisoning Doma. That proves two things.

1. You have some kind of sense that villains need to be macho, march into places, and kill everything in sight. Thats not a smart villain, that is a dumb one. A smart villain will kill just as much as a macho one without risking death.

2. Kefka was ruthless. He killed his own soldiers while poisoning Doma, I dare you to say that you could make an order like that.

there's so many misinterpretations and red herrings in this post that I am going to refuse to acknowledge it。
啊；拉；拉是俄克，雌蛾，诶！！！！

What kind of statement is that? If they where so many "misinterpretations and red herrings" you should easily be able to make a response.

Okay. I think you need to actually play FFII before you engage in threads that discuss the entire series. The entire world gave up hope in that game. As did the population in the world of VII and V. Only the main party dared challenge their respective villains, just like in VI. You should probably play/complete/pay attention to those games because it seems like you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Second. I’m not sure how discussing how anything Kefka did makes me a graphic whore. I never said he didn’t rearrange the face of the earth. This has nothing to do with limitations – all of the towns were intact except Mobliz, that’s just the way it was. If you played Chrono Trigger, you would see that even with the Super Nintendo, updating levels was not a hard thing to do, even the world map was altered several times depending on what you did. So once again, it seems like you don’t know what you’re talking about, and you’re devolving the argument by bringing up graphics, which I did not mention.

I’m not sure what significance your statement on villains has. My point was that Kefka is a cowardly little girl.

[Goldenboko]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

You're too worried about body counts. Kefka had the entire world fear him far more then Imperial dominance, X-Death, or Ulti did. In all of the other games there where lots of people willing to speak out and resist against the main villain. In FFVI everyone was so afraid of suddenly being blown to bits they didn't dare. Fear, its far worse then just killing someone.

Now continuing on... You're being a graphic whore. He did rearrange the face of the earth, consider the location of each city. The developers didn't go to crazy making everywhere appear rearrange and utterly destroyed because of the timeframe it was made, they could only push the system it was on so far. You seem to use graphics to support your arguments in place we are talking about storyline.

And if you want to talk about body count, think about this. When he moved the statues lots of people died. Remember the scene of the earth changing shape? People where falling into large cracks of the earth to their doom.

EDIT- As for staying behind and poisoning Doma. That proves two things.

1. You have some kind of sense that villains need to be macho, march into places, and kill everything in sight. Thats not a smart villain, that is a dumb one. A smart villain will kill just as much as a macho one without risking death.

2. Kefka was ruthless. He killed his own soldiers while poisoning Doma, I dare you to say that you could make an order like that.

there's so many misinterpretations and red herrings in this post that I am going to refuse to acknowledge it。
啊；拉；拉是俄克，雌蛾，诶！！！！

What kind of statement is that? If they where so many "misinterpretations and red herrings" you should easily be able to make a response.

Okay. I think you need to actually play FFII before you engage in threads that discuss the entire series. The entire world gave up hope in that game. As did the population in the world of VII and V. Only the main party dared challenge their respective villains, just like in VI. You should probably play/complete/pay attention to those games because it seems like you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Second. I’m not sure how discussing how anything Kefka did makes me a graphic whore. I never said he didn’t rearrange the face of the earth. This has nothing to do with limitations – all of the towns were intact except Mobliz, that’s just the way it was. If you played Chrono Trigger, you would see that even with the Super Nintendo, updating levels was not a hard thing to do, even the world map was altered several times depending on what you did. So once again, it seems like you don’t know what you’re talking about, and you’re devolving the argument by bringing up graphics, which I did not mention.

I’m not sure what significance your statement on villains has. My point was that Kefka is a cowardly little girl.

No they didn't "Give up hope" in FFVII, I will say, most of the general population didn't think they could do anything to stop the oncoming doom. But the main party wasn't the only one who tried, Shinra tried, without them, we wouldn't even have gotten pasted the barrier. What I'm saying is in FFVI, you where the only resistance. That was it, just you.

Second. You're implying things about graphics. You say "the towns where unchanged". If anything thats because of laziness on the developers parts, plus all of the plants of the earth being dead is hardly "nothing changed". If anything, thats worse then a few broken buildings.

You're last part proved my point. You have this macho-needing attitude. Poisoning Doma castle wasn't cowardly, it was "I'm tired of waiting for you guys to kill them, I'm doing this the fast way."

Lastly, don't sit here and tell me I don't know anything, its very rude. Occasionally I do post things in a hurry, which have errors in them (I shouldn't have included X-Death, but I accidentally did), but you take debating far too seriously, and find a need to try and make other people sound like trash.

[PuPu]

I think you need to actually play FFII before you engage in threads that discuss the entire series. The entire world gave up hope in that game.
That's not quite true. Hilda and the Resistance still had enough hope that they opposed the Emporer.


If you played Chrono Trigger, you would see that even with the Super Nintendo, updating levels was not a hard thing to do, even the world map was altered several times depending on what you did.
Well, there's the fact that FFVI was Mode 7, which showed how much more advanced it was than regular 2D graphics whenever you flew on the airship. I think it might have made a difference.

[The Crystal]

Talking about people in the world "losing hope" and "losing the will to fight", i think people should read all the Cases of "On a Way to a Smile". Seriously, Sephiroth totally fuc*ed the world. With the fall of Shinra and his Meteor destroying Midgar, Mako wasn't being used anymore. And because of that, almost all the machines in the world became useless(because Mako was the primary source of energy in the world). It was basically a retrocess in society. And in the same time, many and many people in the world were sick or dying from an incurable disease. And with all that, came the depression. Everyone was sad. This feeling of depression is very clear in the novelas, principally "Case of Barret".

If we talk about "making people sad, losing their will to fight and their hopes", the fear of Meteor is nothing compared to what Sephiroth's Meteor(destroying Midgar) and Geostigma did.

[silentenigma]

Dude its got to be sephiroth.When he does that move at the end of ffvii dosent he destroy jupiter, the largest planet?
That is just a cool battle animation made to impress people. If you use that to determine his power, it would make no sense because he supposedly destroyed the sun and Earth as well. And if Earth really did get blown up by the sun, nobody could survive that. But it is clearly shown that your characters are still alive, and Earth is still intact after you manage to beat Sephiroth.

relax, he wasn't serious.

[PuPu]

Dude its got to be sephiroth.When he does that move at the end of ffvii dosent he destroy jupiter, the largest planet?
That is just a cool battle animation made to impress people. If you use that to determine his power, it would make no sense because he supposedly destroyed the sun and Earth as well. And if Earth really did get blown up by the sun, nobody could survive that. But it is clearly shown that your characters are still alive, and Earth is still intact after you manage to beat Sephiroth.

relax, he wasn't serious.
It's harder to detect something like that due to:
1. Sephiroth has way too many rabid fans that can hardly explain why they like him. I'm talking about the people who say things like "omg sephi is teh coolest because he is so badass and a huge sword." Though I'm not implying that he, nor anybody else here is like that.

2. It's harder to detect things like sarcasm over the internet.

[Bolivar]

and find a need to try and make other people sound like trash.

my lord, the irony is killing me

you completely disreguard my main points, are consistently inconsistent with your arguments (differentiating losing hope with not thinking you can do anything), and focus on side comments as main components (Machismo has nothing to do with it - it was my potshot at Kefka, my other points detail how he accomplished just as much or less than other FF villains). I just can't take you seriously.

That being said, I think one way in which Kefka accomplished maybe more than any other character is that he became a "god" although that's debatable and other villains, although not stated to be gods, had just as much or more power.

[Goldenboko]

and find a need to try and make other people sound like trash.

my lord, the irony is killing me

you completely disreguard my main points, are consistently inconsistent with your arguments (differentiating losing hope with not thinking you can do anything), and focus on side comments as main components (Machismo has nothing to do with it - it was my potshot at Kefka, my other points detail how he accomplished just as much or less than other FF villains). I just can't take you seriously.

That being said, I think one way in which Kefka accomplished maybe more than any other character is that he became a "god" although that's debatable and other villains, although not stated to be gods, had just as much or more power.

Irony? I've yet to make a single comment doubting how much you know about FFs. Although you've been trying to cut me down every turn.

I'm fretting over details I find important.

[Bolivar]

;)


and find a need to try and make other people sound like trash.

my lord, the irony is killing me

you completely disreguard my main points, are consistently inconsistent with your arguments (differentiating losing hope with not thinking you can do anything), and focus on side comments as main components (Machismo has nothing to do with it - it was my potshot at Kefka, my other points detail how he accomplished just as much or less than other FF villains). I just can't take you seriously.

That being said, I think one way in which Kefka accomplished maybe more than any other character is that he became a "god" although that's debatable and other villains, although not stated to be gods, had just as much or more power.

Irony? I've yet to make a single comment doubting how much you know about FFs. Although you've been trying to cut me down every turn.

I'm fretting over details I find important.

ironic because almost every post i've seen you make in an FF forum is a disagreement, many times being your only contribution to a thread. Just like this little episode began with your initial disagreement with my original post. So I'm not allowed to defend my post w/o it being "tyring to cut you down at every turn"???. And pointing out the flaws in your criticisms of me is "taking debating far too seriously"??? Okay....

My votes going to Ultimecia in that she got rid of everything in her own time, turning the entire planet to a wasteland, killing the multiple generations of waves of SeeD's going at her, and was directly manipulating major events in another time period (or dimension as Future Esthar has said ;) ). Her absorbing time and existence at the end of the game, as Crystal pointed out in a few threads, seems to be the clincher.

[Gilthanes]

I may be wrong but didnt Ulti achieve time compression at the whim of the main characters. They had 2 choices, seal/kill off the sorcs of their time period, or let Ulti take control of Rinoa and have Ellone allow time compression to occur in order to jump into her time period and defeat her?

We coulda been wimps and just sacrificed Rinoa and let another generation deal with it :cool:

[The Crystal]

Just remember guys, Ultimecia started TC but never finished it.

[Forsaken Lover]

Kuja was a master of spreading fear and panic.

First it was his Black Mages spreading death everywhere they went. They were known and spoken about with terror across the continent.

Then later on he brings the Mist back which covers the entire world, causing various deaths by the Iifa Tree's roots ripping up through the ground. The heavy concentration of Mist also produced new and harder monsters.

Though the fall of Shinra, due entirely to Cloud's group, had a profound impact on FFVII Gaia.

Though, it wasn't entirely their doing. Diamond WEAPON "killing" Rufus helped. But Cloud and the gang stamped out the rest of the heads.

But I'm sure people in the other worlds would be just as hopeless and depressed as those in FF7 if they saw death approaching them day after day.

No one in FFIX knew they were gonna die except the party.


I may be wrong but didnt Ulti achieve time compression at the whim of the main characters

Yes. She was too weak to go back in time and needed the heroes to help her and use the Plot Device Ellione.

[Slothy]

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

First; every town was in partial ruins with who knows how many people dead. If you didn't notice, Kefka wasn't concerned with outright killing everyone with his light of judgement. He already guarenteed that everyhing would die a slow death so long as he existed, and he was a man who liked to see people suffer. Also, magicite are what is created when Espers die. He finished off all but one that was still alive in the world after he killed General Leo (that one still being frozen in Narshe).

Second; Doma castle was the kingdom. There was never any indication that they controlled anything else, and there were no towns within a reasonable distance that we could even assume might have been under their control. Therefore, he poisoned an entire kingdom, and killed his own men in the process. It was a smart and ruthless thing to do, and far more sadistic than anything the other villians did. Also, you can't really assume that there aren't many people in the world based on what we see. Based on the number of people we see in just about any FF except XII, these towns must be full of nothing but inbred hicks as they certainly don't have enough people to support more than three or four families. The abilities of the consoles is limited, which limits how many people they can put in. Heck, there are more people in Midgar in Advent Children than in all of FFVII. What you see is just a poor representation of an actual world.

Finally; Meteor made people lose hope for what? A few days? Same with the void and largely the same with the others. Kefka became a god and ground the world under his boot heel for a year. Even if people could have stood up to him, they were living in a dying world. As far as anyone knew, there may have been absolutely no recovering from it. Even the heroes largely lost hope over the course of that year as they watched everything fall apart around them. No other villian has managed to plunge their world and their enemies into the hoplessness that Kefka did. That's why he's the best villian.

[The Crystal]

Kefka became a god and ground the world under his boot heel for a year.

And Yu Yevon terrorized the world for 1000 years.

[PuPu]

Kefka became a god and ground the world under his boot heel for a year.

And Yu Yevon terrorized the world for 1000 years.
Except, like it has been said in this thread before, he didn't really cause people to "lose hope". The people of Spira knew that every time Sin would come back, a High Summoner would rise. He/She would kill Sin, then Spira would be free for a few years, and when Sin comes back, they knew another High Summoner would rise again, and Sin would be destroyed again, repeating the process. (Of course, when Yuna had become the High Summoner, she and the rest of the gang killed Sin for good.) You'd probably also have to subtract a few hundred years from that 1000 for all the times Sin was destroyed. And if anything, all Yu Yevon/Sin really did was force a summoner to give up his/her life every few years. Maybe throw in a few times where he might have destroyed a small city like Killika , but it still seems to me like it's nothing that major.

[ReloadPsi]

Chaos had the world under boot and heel for 2000 years, maybe more if you take the time loop into consideration. I like how that was ignored.

[Forsaken Lover]

Fayth
"Yu Yevon was once a summoner, long ago."
"He was peerless."
"Yet now he lives for one purpose: only to summon."
"He is neither good, nor evil. He is awake, yet he dreams."


"On the eve of Zanarkand's destruction, Lady Yunalesca...had fled to safety with her husband, Zaon.
Later, the two used the Final Summoning to defeat Sin.
Yet the people of Bevelle still feared Yu Yevon. It was to quell his wrath that they revered him, and first spread his teachings. And so were born the temples of Yevon.
I suppose it's possible Yunalesca had planned it that way from the start!A fair trade, she defeats Sin in exchange for her lord father's honor. Of course, there's no proof. No, the facts are lost in the mists of time."

So, Yevon has devolved into a mechanical force that simply summons with no will of its own.

And the whole Yevon religion was hypothetically planned out by Yunalesca, not Yevon. It was brought into being by the superstitious fears of the leaders of Bevelle.

Also, might I remind you all, Sin was around for 1000 years. If each Calm is 10 years and I believe a total of Five people defeated Sin, it was still active for over 900 years. And it can't do more than destroy a few towns.

It's more the fault of the Yevon religion than Yu Yevon himself.

[Goldenboko]

Chaos had the world under boot and heel for 2000 years, maybe more if you take the time loop into consideration. I like how that was ignored.

Yes, but most people didn't even know he existed, go around and talk to everyone they have no idea who Chaos is.

[Omni-Odin]

Kefka

[Slothy]

Kefka became a god and ground the world under his boot heel for a year.

And Yu Yevon terrorized the world for 1000 years.

I don't consider Yu Yevon the villian of FFX. Yes Sin needed to be stopped, but it didn't actively try to destroy everything in the world. In fact, for something so powerful, it did almost nothing in that 1000 years. The Yevon religion did more damage to the people of Spira than Sin by holding them back technologically, but as was said before, Yu Yevon didn't really create that religion. The damage Sin cause never seemed to stop the people of Spira from quickly rebuilding, or creating fairly massive cities like Bevelle or Luca. Sin (and by extension Yu Yevon) were more a force of nature than anything else. They weren't out to destroy the world or anything. What little damage they did to human society was just an unfortunate consequence of their existence.

[Firo Volondé]

Kefka became a god and ground the world under his boot heel for a year.

And Yu Yevon terrorized the world for 1000 years.

I don't consider Yu Yevon the villian of FFX. Yes Sin needed to be stopped, but it didn't actively try to destroy everything in the world.

Not all villains set out to destroy everything, nor it is a prerequisite that they do in order to become villains. If so, villains could only exist in fantasy/science fiction, which is obviously untrue.


In fact, for something so powerful, it did almost nothing in that 1000 years.

True. It only managed to send the fabulously futuristic Spira back into the Middle Ages, keep it there for 1000 years, halting any technological advancements, destroy any settlements that grew too large for its liking, and accumulated a kill count that almost nothing in the whole history of fictional stories can match.


The Yevon religion did more damage to the people of Spira than Sin by holding them back technologically, but as was said before, Yu Yevon didn't really create that religion.

Oh didn't he?


They said that the people of Zanarkand became the fayth, that they had called Sin. And that the man responsible... was none other than the summoner Yevon, ruler of Zanarkand!
...
Yet the people of Bevelle still feared Yu Yevon. It was to quell his wrath that they revered him, and first spread his teachings. And so were born the temples of Yevon. I suppose it's possible Yunalesca had planned it that way from the start!



The damage Sin cause never seemed to stop the people of Spira from quickly rebuilding, or creating fairly massive cities like Bevelle or Luca.

Sin was still following the programming set down for it by Yevon; it did not seek to crush Spira entirely, but to prevent it from getting too advanced. If Sin hadn't let them rebuild, the people would have lost hope; something both Yunalesca and Mika considered catastrophic.

As for the cities;


Tidus: What about Luca? It's safe here?
Yuna: It's not any different, but the stadium is here. The Crusaders fight to protect it with all their strength.


In any case, Sin wouldn't have destroyed Luca, as that would've eliminated blitzball and with no entertainment, the people would lose hope. And not only does Bevelle have the protection of the warrior monks, but has a temple that summoners need to pray at to get the Final Summoning. No Final Summoning, no hope.


Sin (and by extension Yu Yevon) were more a force of nature than anything else. They weren't out to destroy the world or anything.

No, Yevon had originally designed Sin to be a super-weapon, not unlike Vegnagun. Unfortunately, he miscalculated and ended up losing his humanity and all control over his actions. And destroying the world would've :skull::skull::skull::skull:ed up his true goal, to preserve Zanarkand's memory forever through DZ.


What little damage they did to human society was just an unfortunate consequence of their existence.

Not true. Sin's destruction was entirely intended, just not 1000 years' worth of destruction.

[Slothy]

Ok, so perhaps I was a little off with my views on Sin. Forgive me as it's been a while since I played through the game. Still though, show me where we know he amassed a kill total over those 1000 years that was greater than anything else. Any villiage or city that was prepared for him could conceivably manage to get the hell out of his way before many people got hurt. In fact, Sin's goals could have been accomplished without killing anyone and by merely destroying buildings and technology. I also still maintain that he didn't do half as much as the religion that grew around him. People could still have worked to advance technology, particularly in the hopes of one day destroying Sin, and might even have been able to hide such advancements from him, or at least stay mobile enough to avoid him (such as with the airship). In fact, considering the Al Bhed's Home was a hub of advanced technology, Sin never really seemed to do it's job in wiping it out. Either it didn't know about it, couldn't get to it, was fought off, or they were able to rebuild anytime he attacked. Regardless of which is the case, it's evidence that Sin wasn't even very effective at it's given mission of stunting technological development.

[50calCerberus]

when u think about it do all the ff villians have good reasons for doin wat they did:confused:...i mean ya most were psycotic evil genious' but did some of them have understandable intentions

[ReloadPsi]

Chaos had the world under boot and heel for 2000 years, maybe more if you take the time loop into consideration. I like how that was ignored.

Yes, but most people didn't even know he existed, go around and talk to everyone they have no idea who Chaos is.

Hey, the longer a serial killer lasts without getting caught, the longer he gets to kill more people, thus the more he "accomplishes"; the Yorkshire Ripper killed several people before his identity was unmasked. They were well aware of the wind stopping, the seas raging and the earth decaying, all because of these four fiends that Chaos kept sending forward in time so they could send someone back to become him again.

But even so, I'm starting to lean towards Yu-Yevon anyway, what with this whole "world destruction before the game even begins" thing everyone's on about.

[beema]

Out of all the ones I've played, definitely Kefka.

[50calCerberus]

umm is the dude with the horns on the eoff banner next to aeris kefka:confused:

[Karellen]

No, that's Odin as he appears in FFVIII. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqA5mZRtMLw) is Kefka.

[tailz]

dont know if its been said yet but didnt seymour acomplish his goal

becoming one with sin,

okey his plan after that didnt get much further as destroying a part of bevelle but still. his first goal was met.


besides that, kefka wins.

[Elpizo]

when u think about it do all the ff villians have good reasons for doin wat they did:confused:...i mean ya most were psycotic evil genious' but did some of them have understandable intentions

Yeah. Xande didn't want to die so he became evil. Kuja was pretty much the same, he wanted to be free from Garland's rule. Ony Kuja wanted world domination all together with it and Xande became a pawn of the Cloud of Darkness.

[Forsaken Lover]

True. It only managed to send the fabulously futuristic Spira back into the Middle Ages,

That has to do with the Yevon religion ostracizing the Al Bhed and banning all technology.


keep it there for 1000 years,

Thanks to the lies of the Temple.


destroy any settlements that grew too large for its liking

Bevelle seems fine.


and accumulated a kill count that almost nothing in the whole history of fictional stories can match.

With a longer existence than nearly any other FF villain, Sin accumulated probably the lowest kill count of any of them.


Oh didn't he?

Yep. Flatly said Bevelle did it and possibly Unalesca.

Or do you think Jesus created Christianity because people spread his teachings and formulated religions around him?


n any case, Sin wouldn't have destroyed Luca, as that would've eliminated blitzball and with no entertainment, the people would lose hope. And not only does Bevelle have the protection of the warrior monks, but has a temple that summoners need to pray at to get the Final Summoning. No Final Summoning, no hope.

The Final Summoning kept the people slaves to ignorance and fear for a millennium.

[Avarice-ness]

Retro Gamer Monthly for Feburary (May have been March) stated that Kefka was and still is, one of the very few video game villians -ever- to accomplish his/her goal, which is mass world destruction. :heart:

[Jessweeee♪]

Retro Gamer Monthly for Feburary (May have been March) stated that Kefka was and still is, one of the very few video game villians -ever- to accomplish his/her goal, which is mass world destruction. :heart:

WELL THANK YOU FOR SPOILING :kaocry2:

[Bolivar]

Retro Gamer Monthly for Feburary (May have been March) stated that Kefka was and still is, one of the very few video game villians -ever- to accomplish his/her goal, which is mass world destruction. :heart:

lol the title of the magazine is all you need to know

[JackNapier]

Retro Gamer Monthly for Feburary (May have been March) stated that Kefka was and still is, one of the very few video game villians -ever- to accomplish his/her goal, which is mass world destruction. :heart:

And look pretty while doing it!

[Heath]

It's between Kuja and Kefka for me. Kefka certainly managed to succeed in becoming an all-powerful God and ruling the world as he pleased as well as making his power unchallengeable by anybody really, removing those that stood a chance of defeating him (the main party) out of the picture by separating them and forcing them to hide.

Kuja, on the other hand, successfully destroys Terra and kills one of his biggest opponents (Garland). One could argue that Kuja didn't accomplish a great deal personally because he often had pawns act for him. Zorn and Thorn acquired the Eidolons for him, Brahne destroyed all the nations bar one and the party gave Kuja access to Mount Gulug. However, I think that Kuja's ability to use these people add to his accomplishments in that he achieved so much without personally putting himself at risk or getting his hands dirty. Kuja managed to ruin the Mist Continent with Cleyra and Burmecia arguably being beyond repair, challenge Lindblum's position as the most powerful nation and get within mere inches of destroying all life as he had hoped. If I'm going to be lovey-feely I could even say that Kuja's eventual redemption by saving the party and realising the error his ways encompasses a pretty big moral 'accomplishment.'

[Avarice-ness]

Retro Gamer Monthly for Feburary (May have been March) stated that Kefka was and still is, one of the very few video game villians -ever- to accomplish his/her goal, which is mass world destruction. :heart:

WELL THANK YOU FOR SPOILING :kaocry2:

=D



Retro Gamer Monthly for Feburary (May have been March) stated that Kefka was and still is, one of the very few video game villians -ever- to accomplish his/her goal, which is mass world destruction. :heart:

lol the title of the magazine is all you need to know

Yeah, but seeing as Psx games are now sold at Retro stores, Retro's becoming a very vast term.



Retro Gamer Monthly for Feburary (May have been March) stated that Kefka was and still is, one of the very few video game villians -ever- to accomplish his/her goal, which is mass world destruction. :heart:

And look pretty while doing it!

OF COURSE!


Kefka certainly managed to succeed in becoming an all-powerful God and ruling the world as he pleased as well as making his power unchallengeable by anybody really, removing those that stood a chance of defeating him (the main party) out of the picture by separating them and forcing them to hide.

Not to mention he had a cult, if someone made him mad, he'd fry their town literally, he changed the ENTIRE world map, in after game terms, even after his death he still succeeded because unlike FFVII's self-healing world, FFVI's isn't self-healing and seeing as he did as much damage with his light of judgements BEFORE the final battle, the what 2 or 3 he shot off at random at the final battle leaves the world utterly screwed even after his death. I mean yeah, the people can rebuild their towns but geologically speaking, earthquakes are going to sprout, volcanoes, all that fun stuff. But then again FFVI was based off tragedy so I'm sure they didn't want to point that out at the end seeing as the entire game you gotta deal with people emo'd out from dying.
KEFKA WINS AFTER HIS DEATH. *high-fives*

[The Crystal]

From what i heard about him, Delita is the most accomplished villain in FF. He won in the end!

Delita > Kefka



And Kefka never succeeded. He accomplished ONE of his goals(rule the world as a god), but failed the other one(destroy everything/build a monument to non-existence).

[Avarice-ness]

From what i heard about him, Delita is the most accomplished villain in FF. He won in the end!

Delita > Kefka



And Kefka never succeeded. He accomplished ONE of his goals(rule the world as a god), but failed the other one(destroy everything/build a monument to non-existence).

For one, building a monument to non-existance is an oxymoron for the reason the monument built would exist therefore there would never be a non-existance. Not to mention, that wasn't even stated until right before the final battle. For speeches sake, every villians going to say right before a final battle something big and flashy, ironically enough his didn't even make sense. :love:
Second, his goal was to rule the world and do what he wanted with it. He -never- wanted to gain power and then go "LOL BLOW UP WORLD" and detroy everything. He wanted to tourture the world and the people in it. He did just that.

[The Crystal]

For one, building a monument to non-existance is an oxymoron for the reason the monument built would exist therefore there would never be a non-existance. Not to mention, that wasn't even stated until right before the final battle. For speeches sake, every villians going to say right before a final battle something big and flashy, ironically enough his didn't even make sense. :love:

What Kefka said before the final battle, was about what he wanted to do next. But he was killed before doing it. He failed.


Second, his goal was to rule the world and do what he wanted with it. He -never- wanted to gain power and then go "LOL BLOW UP WORLD" and detroy everything. He wanted to tourture the world and the people in it. He did just that.

He wanted to destroy the world, as explained by him before the final battle. But he failed.

[Goldenboko]

For one, building a monument to non-existance is an oxymoron for the reason the monument built would exist therefore there would never be a non-existance. Not to mention, that wasn't even stated until right before the final battle. For speeches sake, every villians going to say right before a final battle something big and flashy, ironically enough his didn't even make sense. :love:

What Kefka said before the final battle, was about what he wanted to do next. But he was killed before doing it. He failed.


Second, his goal was to rule the world and do what he wanted with it. He -never- wanted to gain power and then go "LOL BLOW UP WORLD" and detroy everything. He wanted to tourture the world and the people in it. He did just that.

He wanted to destroy the world, as explained by him before the final battle. But he failed.

He did want to destroy the world but not rate at the start of the gate.

At first Kefka wanted to become a god, and he succeeded, so he completed his goal.
After he decided, okay I'm bored should I destroy the world?
Thats when he failed. -But- his initial goal was successful.

[The Last Oath]

Yeah, i gotta agree with Kuja, he managed to accomplish his goal by manipulating others then destroying a whole world. Enough said?
What about Chaos, he controlled time for 2000 years..

[Raebus]

Chaos was a poor enemy, you barely saw him through out the game.

[The Crystal]

He did want to destroy the world but not rate at the start of the gate.

At first Kefka wanted to become a god, and he succeeded, so he completed his goal.
After he decided, okay I'm bored should I destroy the world?
Thats when he failed. -But- his initial goal was successful.

Kuja and Zande were successful in their initial goals too. But people talk more about Kefka, because he is more popular. Delita was more successfull than Kefka, but Delita isn't so popular as him.

Kefka is the new Sephiroth of FF. He isn't the most powerful or successful, but the most(or second most) popular.

[Forsaken Lover]

I don't recall any of the other villains frying towns on a whim or reshaping the face of the planet for fun.

So...how exactly are they more powerful?

[Firo Volondé]

I don't recall any of the other villains frying towns on a whim or reshaping the face of the planet for fun.

So...how exactly are they more powerful?

What about Sin?

Oh, and BTW, Most powerful ≠most successful.

[Serapy]

Yeah, Sin was ultra powerful.

[The Last Oath]

Kuja didnt have to lift a finger to travel worlds, gain super power then he easily DESTROYED a world, not just damage it like Kefka did, but destroy it. Plus, manipulation of people is just plain awesome. :D

[Forsaken Lover]

What about Sin?

Don't remember Sin vaping towns with a giant beam of light and nothin gmore...

[Avarice-ness]

What about Sin?

Don't remember Sin vaping towns with a giant beam of light and nothin gmore...

In all honesty Sin did do a good job of damage, but I think it's the motives that change how to veiw the two.

Sin wanted everything dead so towns kind of just got smashed one by one.
Kefka wanted to pick towns and people off for his own amusement, so if anyone made him mad he'd fry them.

In all reality, Kefka could have easily smashed a hell of alot more than he did. But honestly, I'd say picking humanity off slowly and painfully and sitting on a tower watching the planet be slowly destroyed and quickly altered by my own hand would be SO much more fun then just killing everything.

[Fynn]

What about Sin?

Don't remember Sin vaping towns with a giant beam of light and nothin gmore...

In all honesty Sin did do a good job of damage, but I think it's the motives that change how to veiw the two.

Sin wanted everything dead so towns kind of just got smashed one by one.
Kefka wanted to pick towns and people off for his own amusement, so if anyone made him mad he'd fry them.

In all reality, Kefka could have easily smashed a hell of alot more than he did. But honestly, I'd say picking humanity off slowly and painfully and sitting on a tower watching the planet be slowly destroyed and quickly altered by my own hand would be SO much more fun then just killing everything.

You truly ARE his soulmate...

[The Unknown Guru]

It's between Kuja and Kefka. Kuja destroyed a planet, but Kefka left one in ruin. Kefka probably had a bigger impact on the story and he actually did become an insane god of desruction, so I'm going with him.

[Firo Volondé]

What about Sin?

Don't remember Sin vaping towns with a giant beam of light and nothin gmore...

The same applies for Kefka. I don't remember him vaporising a single town. Only one (where you find Sabin) got hit with Light of Judgement, and I noticed a distinct lack of vaporising going on.



In all honesty Sin did do a good job of damage, but I think it's the motives that change how to veiw the two.

Sin wanted everything dead so towns kind of just got smashed one by one.

No, that was Seymour. Sin wanted everyone to be technologically backward so that nobody would find DZ.


Kefka wanted to pick towns and people off for his own amusement, so if anyone made him mad he'd fry them.

In all reality, Kefka could have easily smashed a hell of alot more than he did. But honestly, I'd say picking humanity off slowly and painfully and sitting on a tower watching the planet be slowly destroyed and quickly altered by my own hand would be SO much more fun then just killing everything.

That is all true, but when you think about it, 99.9% of RPG villains have the power to destroy the world, but do not do so because either they want to revel in the destruction, are killed by the heroes or it would contradict their primary objective. So while Kefka's mentality is very different to Sin's, it isn't exclusive to him.

[Avarice-ness]

[quote]What about Sin?

Don't remember Sin vaping towns with a giant beam of light and nothin gmore...

The same applies for Kefka. I don't remember him vaporising a single town. Only one (where you find Sabin) got hit with Light of Judgement, and I noticed a distinct lack of vaporising going on.

Just because it doesn't show the towns being zapped doesn't mean it didn't happen. Celes was out for a year, and the ONLY towns that arn't dramatically altered in the world of ruin by what the villagers say was KEFKAS LIGHT OF JUDGEMENT were like, Narshe, Zozo, Jidoor and maybe one other. Every other town was fried and the villagers state Kefka did it.

[The Last Oath]

Kefka was defeated by Locke and the gang. Kuja still knocked out zidane and the gang with Ultima.... And he manipulated everyone.