Kefka vs. Sephiroth

[Forsaken Lover]

God Kefka vs. AC Sephiroth.

Who is more powerful?

[Firo Volondé]

God Kefka. AC Sephiroth didn't show us anything to indicate he was anything more than an above-average swordsman, though. If it was end-FFVII Sephiroth, it may be a different story.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Kefka.

[Goldenboko]

Kefka.

Saying whatever BtV says is usually a good idea :thumb:

[jammi567]

This is very, very difficult, having to pick from the two most overrated villians in final fantasy history.

















































Kefka.

[Hazzard]

Obviously Kefka, you should of put forward the One Winged Sephiroth, instead.

[Serapy]

Why are you comparing between Kefka from a game and Sephiroth from a movie? Both of them doesn't seem to match the same requirement in finding out which one is better.

But to answer the question, obviously Kefka is better. But if it was Kefka vs Sephiroth (from a game, of course) instead then I'd choose Sephiroth because he seemed very evil and has had more potential than Kefka. Even Sephiroth can be resurrected in many ways.

[Elpizo]

I say we can't really judge, as AC Sephiroth didn't even try to be serious during his battle with Cloud so we don't know just how powerful he is. Yes, Sephiroth is an arrogant sack cause he didn't even try and Cloud should never be able to beat him (said so by Nomura, apparently) but you still can't judge. You can all say kefka now while the truth may be something very different. Unless you see AC Sephiroth as the Sephiroth that didn't even try during his battle with Cloud. If that's the case than of course Kefka's gonna win. I think, cause for being a God, God Kefka is still weak (in-battle, I mean).

[Forsaken Lover]

To all those saying to use Seph from the game, AC Sephiroth is the most powerful version of Seph.

Thus accordingly, anything other than AC Seph would be rape for Kefka. He'd annihilate FF7 Sephiroth.

[Fynn]

To all those saying to use Seph from the game, AC Sephiroth is the most powerful version of Seph.

Thus accordingly, anything other than AC Seph would be rape for Kefka. He'd annihilate FF7 Sephiroth.

And where did you get this from? The AC version of Sephiroth looks exactly like the one Cloud finished with just one Omnislash (and he ended it this time pretty similarilly). One-Winged Angel was his ultimate form...

And if god Kefka fought with Seraph Sephiroth... It would result in a tie...

[Bolivar]

If my party could take down Kefka with little to no effort every time I played VI, there's no reason why AC Sephiroth couldn't. For a god, he just isn't that challenging.

[The Crystal]

It's stated in the Reunion Files(official book released by SE) that AC Sephiroth is in his most powerful form ever.
But he didn't use his true power, because Sephiroth wanted to play with Cloud, not kill him in the first attack.

IMO Sephiroth wins. He can move with the insane speed of Chaos Vincent and Omega Weiss if he want(MUCH faster than any FF character until now), and his intangibility makes him immune to any attack Kefka throw against him.

[Forsaken Lover]

....um...only Jenova showed intangibility.

[Rengori]

Give me a K!
Give me an E!
Give me an F!
Give me a KA!
What does that spell?
PURE AWESOME!

[JackNapier]

Give me a K!
Give me an E!
Give me an F!
Give me a KA!
What does that spell?
PURE AWESOME!

Actually, it spells Massive Destruction and Pwnage, but pure awesome is an acceptable answer.

[Serapy]

It's stated in the Reunion Files(official book released by SE) that AC Sephiroth is in his most powerful form ever.
But he didn't use his true power, because Sephiroth wanted to play with Cloud, not kill him in the first attack.

IMO Sephiroth wins. He can move with the insane speed of Chaos Vincent and Omega Weiss if he want(MUCH faster than any FF character until now), and his intangibility makes him immune to any attack Kefka throw against him.

Agreed! Kefka sucks!

[Avarice-ness]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g89/crimsonh2o/Kefkawin.gif

Planet getting smashed in two.
Planet getting saved.

Weird.

[Firo Volondé]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g89/crimsonh2o/Kefkawin.gif

Planet getting smashed in two.
Planet getting saved.

Weird.

That says more about the strength of the resistance the two villains faced rather than how strong they are. If The Planet had no Lifestream, Meteor would have destroyed it even after Sephiroth was defeated. And to paraphrase myself from an earlier thread:


More successful ≠more powerful.

[blackmage_nuke]

The life stream was too scared to opose Kefka

[Avarice-ness]

The life stream was too scared to opose Kefka

xfdghj xD Yeah.

Not to mention if the lifestream didn't exist in FF7 the story line wouldn't even be the same.

[Firo Volondé]

The life stream was too scared to opose Kefka

Touché. :lol:

[Elpizo]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g89/crimsonh2o/Kefkawin.gif

Planet getting smashed in two.
Planet getting saved.

Weird.
I missed the part in AC where Sephiroth summoned Meteor?

AC Sephiroth > VII Sephiroth

AC Sephiroth vs God Kefka = ? since that loser Sephiroth didn't want to show us what he was trully capable of and as such everybody that says Kefka here can very well be wrong. For well, we don't know how strong AC Sephiroth is. =/ So tell me, how can you all be so sure that Kefka's gonna win? Proof? Please?

[Raebus]

Lets turn this around, if AC sephiroth didn't show his "True power" then how do you know he's stronger than kefka and that sephiroth would win?

Screw any books released by SE that tell you it's his ultimate form, anything that can be wrote could be made to look true even it isn't and just because they're the makers, it doesen't mean they don't think "OH YES, LET US ADD ANOTHER RANDOM FACT TO THE LONG LIST OF "FACTS"".


Edit: For example, I could write a book detailing the gay antics of sephiroth and cloud and if SE released it as a book under their name, it would join the rest of the "official" books.

Further Edit: This thread will keep on going, no resolve.

[Elpizo]

I missed the part where I said that I was sure AC Sephiroth was stronger than God Kefka.

Kefka's fanboy army marches in here and claims God Kefka wins while nobody here knows how powerful AC Sephiroth really is. I just ask for an explanation. Seeing as they are all so sure God Kefka wins, I'd like to see some proof of it, that's all.

Me myself, I don't care who's the most powerful, they are both horribly overrated villains and are not even half as awesome as their fanboy army claims them to be.

[Raebus]

I don't care about them either, no one will know who will win because it'll NEVER happen, they won't face off so it's just silly talking about it endlessly.

Personally, I hate AC for introducing the new AC sephiroth, it's adding more and more to the ff7 history that it's just becoming silly now. It's sparking more fanboyism and threads like these.

[Hazzard]

I don't even reckon AC even really happened, it was a load of chaos for me to watch, the story was confusing and unbearably poor. FF7 ended with the game, and AC never happened in my eyes.

My opinion earlier was swayed towards Kefka, because the AC Sephiroth got torn apart in a matter of minutes, I doubt if he was this "All powerful, Ultimate form" he would of got beaten so easily, he would of retaliated at the least. So he can avoid and dodge Kefka's attacks? Cloud's can't defeat him? Crap, I say, crap...Sephiroth would of put an end to Cloud's slashing massacre, Omnislash, if he was that powerful.

One Winged Angel is the true ultimate form here, and I believe it would annihilate God Kefka.

[JackNapier]

Kefka's fanboy army

Avarice, I think I've just found us a suitable name.

[Bolivar]

My opinion earlier was swayed towards Kefka, because the AC Sephiroth got torn apart in a matter of minutes, I doubt if he was this "All powerful, Ultimate form" he would of got beaten so easily, he would of retaliated at the least.

Um, Hazz, Kefka in FFVI gets "torn apart in a matter of minutes"! He's by far the easiest FF boss in the series, especially considering you don't need to do a lengthy sidequest in order to kill him in 15 hits. Everytime I get to his final form, I win without getting touched. Whereas in Seph's final form, even if I'm rockin KOtR, I still get hit with that Supernova and have to recoup.

edit:
But none of that is neither here nor there. This is simply a continuation of the neverending quest of the SNESRPG Elitists to enshrine their games in an era in which better ones have already been made. Seriously, someone should make their testament with RPGMaker, embodying all their favorite games and everything they believe in, and I'm sure Cloud, Sephiroth, or Tidus would be the final boss. (they'd also have 1 HP).

[Avarice-ness]

Kefka's fanboy army

Avarice, I think I've just found us a suitable name.

But I'm a girl!
Or am I? *Gogo's*

[Goldenboko]

My opinion earlier was swayed towards Kefka, because the AC Sephiroth got torn apart in a matter of minutes, I doubt if he was this "All powerful, Ultimate form" he would of got beaten so easily, he would of retaliated at the least.

Um, Hazz, Kefka in FFVI gets "torn apart in a matter of minutes"! He's by far the easiest FF boss in the series, especially considering you don't need to do a lengthy sidequest in order to kill him in 15 hits. Everytime I get to his final form, I win without getting touched. Whereas in Seph's final form, even if I'm rockin KOtR, I still get hit with that Supernova and have to recoup.

edit:
But none of that is neither here nor there. This is simply a continuation of the neverending quest of the SNESRPG Elitists to enshrine their games in an era in which better ones have already been made. Seriously, someone should make their testament with RPGMaker, embodying all their favorite games and everything they believe in, and I'm sure Cloud, Sephiroth, or Tidus would be the final boss. (they'd also have 1 HP).

You do realize that battle mechanics cannot be used while determining strength? It has to be storyline.
If you went by battle mechanics then we would also have to say that Sin was not the most powerful thing in FFX because there are the area creation monsters, but that doesn't make sense within the story lines.
When comparing strength you use storyline data, not battle Mechanics.

[JackNapier]

Kefka's fanboy army

Avarice, I think I've just found us a suitable name.

But I'm a girl!
Or am I? *Gogo's*

Then are you a fanit?

[cloud21zidane16]

Kefka.

[Bolivar]

My opinion earlier was swayed towards Kefka, because the AC Sephiroth got torn apart in a matter of minutes, I doubt if he was this "All powerful, Ultimate form" he would of got beaten so easily, he would of retaliated at the least.

Um, Hazz, Kefka in FFVI gets "torn apart in a matter of minutes"! He's by far the easiest FF boss in the series, especially considering you don't need to do a lengthy sidequest in order to kill him in 15 hits. Everytime I get to his final form, I win without getting touched. Whereas in Seph's final form, even if I'm rockin KOtR, I still get hit with that Supernova and have to recoup.

edit:
But none of that is neither here nor there. This is simply a continuation of the neverending quest of the SNESRPG Elitists to enshrine their games in an era in which better ones have already been made. Seriously, someone should make their testament with RPGMaker, embodying all their favorite games and everything they believe in, and I'm sure Cloud, Sephiroth, or Tidus would be the final boss. (they'd also have 1 HP).

You do realize that battle mechanics cannot be used while determining strength? It has to be storyline.
If you went by battle mechanics then we would also have to say that Sin was not the most powerful thing in FFX because there are the area creation monsters, but that doesn't make sense within the story lines.
When comparing strength you use storyline data, not battle Mechanics.

"You do realize" that I was referring to how Seph got torn apart in a few minutes in AC. As does Kefka in VI...

[Hazzard]

Basically, you can't compare a movie to a game.

[Goldenboko]

Maybe torn apart in minutes for you. But, lets say someone bad plays? Then it could take a half hour...

Not to mention as Hazzard said (and I tried to point out), you cannot compare a movie to a game, they are different in all levels.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

On the battle mechanics, as I recall the SNES couldn't support a higher HP total so Kefka was set to "regenerate" a certain amount of HP after being attacked until his "total" HP was reached. The one attack thing is due to coding issues.

If we want to compare power sources, Kefka gains his power from three diety-level otherworldly beings. Sephiroth gains his power from an alien (I happened to check the wikipedia article recently which states that Sephiroth was able to overpower Jenova and control Jenova. Considering Sephiroth isn't the most mentally stable, given his "generally cool guy to psycho in just three months!" thing and in terms of raw power, he was a genetically enhanced human). Kefka's obviously got the higher power source here.

And then we get down to combat and tactics. Kefka's crazy but he's also pretty crafty. Just judging from his character, I'd say Kefka's got this one in the bag.

Also, let's look at the groups that took either boss down (I'll even ignore FFVI's secret characters but not FFVII's, since the latter actually are involved in the plot).

Kefka is confronted by twelve people. Remember, you set your party order so that you can access all of them.

1. Terra, a young half-esper who received imperial training in combat.

2. Locke Cole, a reasonably young man who's been going into dungeons, fighting monsters and taking their stuff for several years. Lots of on-the-job training.

3. Cyan, a Knight retainer to his lord in Doma Castle.

4. Shadow. Freakin' Ninja.

5. Edgar. While the king and not as heavily combat-trained, a skilled machinist.

6. Sabin. Years of martial arts discipline under probably one of the greatest martial artists in the world. Trained in the mountain. Probably fought bears.

7. Celes, imperial general infused with magical energy. Since she wasn't under the slave crown, her training is probably even more complete than Terra's.

8. Strago, an old and experienced blue mage with knowledge of espers and powerful magic.

9. Relm, a young girl descended of the mage knights with the power to bring her paintings to life. Currently winning for least-impressive character.

10. Setzer, a gambler and airship owner. Instantly takes Relm's position for least impressive.

11. Mog, random cute thing that can summon the power of nature by dancing. Also, as this game tells us, Moogles are apparently quite skilled with various implements of killing you.

12. Gau, a young boy who grew up surrounded by monsters in the Veldt.

Now let's move on to FFVII. And in this one, it just takes three of the following.

Cloud, failed clone. Was a grunt in the Shinra army.

Tifa, young girl with martial arts training. Not a terrible fighter, but I'd definitely say she's nowhere near as well trained as Sabin, who was actively and constantly training.

Barret, an angry black man with a gun grafted to his arm. He's been doing the terrorist thing for a few years, but he doesn't have the martial background most of the FFVI characters have.

Red XIII, a member of an ancient race. He's young by his race's standards, and aside from his obvious physical advantage he wasn't really combat trained.

Cait Sith. Do I really need to say anything here?

Cid, a pilot who can inexplicably use a spear. Not really buying that this guy has a lot of training.

Yuffie. Also ninja, albeit an immature and bratty one. With a dash of thief as well. I'd say Shadow wins over her.

Vincent, a former turk vampire with a gun. I think he's impressed me the most in this lineup, and he's not even a required character.

And then we get to their source of power. Espers are otherworldy beings of great power. Materia is a naturally occurring substance refined to create magical effects, often reducing one's physical capabilities. Espers, on the other hand, actually ENHANCE their user as their user grows in strength.

Kefka just has the higher level of power here, and it took a LOT stronger (and bigger) team to take him down than Sephy.

[The Crystal]

If we want to compare power sources, Kefka gains his power from three diety-level otherworldly beings. Sephiroth gains his power from an alien (I happened to check the wikipedia article recently which states that Sephiroth was able to overpower Jenova and control Jenova. Considering Sephiroth isn't the most mentally stable, given his "generally cool guy to psycho in just three months!" thing and in terms of raw power, he was a genetically enhanced human). Kefka's obviously got the higher power source here.

Sephiroth's source of power is Jenova AND the Lifestream. Lifestream is the source of all magic and life in the world of FFVII, and Sephiroth actually suceeded in controlling it, in AC.


And then we get down to combat and tactics. Kefka's crazy but he's also pretty crafty. Just judging from his character, I'd say Kefka's got this one in the bag.

Well, this is only your opinion, and I will give my: I would say that if we give prep to them Kefka could win, but in a direct combat Sephiroth would be the winner.


Also, let's look at the groups that took either boss down (I'll even ignore FFVI's secret characters but not FFVII's, since the latter actually are involved in the plot).

Kefka is confronted by twelve people. Remember, you set your party order so that you can access all of them.

1. Terra, a young half-esper who received imperial training in combat.

2. Locke Cole, a reasonably young man who's been going into dungeons, fighting monsters and taking their stuff for several years. Lots of on-the-job training.

3. Cyan, a Knight retainer to his lord in Doma Castle.

4. Shadow. Freakin' Ninja.

5. Edgar. While the king and not as heavily combat-trained, a skilled machinist.

6. Sabin. Years of martial arts discipline under probably one of the greatest martial artists in the world. Trained in the mountain. Probably fought bears.

7. Celes, imperial general infused with magical energy. Since she wasn't under the slave crown, her training is probably even more complete than Terra's.

8. Strago, an old and experienced blue mage with knowledge of espers and powerful magic.

9. Relm, a young girl descended of the mage knights with the power to bring her paintings to life. Currently winning for least-impressive character.

10. Setzer, a gambler and airship owner. Instantly takes Relm's position for least impressive.

11. Mog, random cute thing that can summon the power of nature by dancing. Also, as this game tells us, Moogles are apparently quite skilled with various implements of killing you.

12. Gau, a young boy who grew up surrounded by monsters in the Veldt.

Now let's move on to FFVII. And in this one, it just takes three of the following.

Cloud, failed clone. Was a grunt in the Shinra army.

Tifa, young girl with martial arts training. Not a terrible fighter, but I'd definitely say she's nowhere near as well trained as Sabin, who was actively and constantly training.

Barret, an angry black man with a gun grafted to his arm. He's been doing the terrorist thing for a few years, but he doesn't have the martial background most of the FFVI characters have.

Red XIII, a member of an ancient race. He's young by his race's standards, and aside from his obvious physical advantage he wasn't really combat trained.

Cait Sith. Do I really need to say anything here?

Cid, a pilot who can inexplicably use a spear. Not really buying that this guy has a lot of training.

Yuffie. Also ninja, albeit an immature and bratty one. With a dash of thief as well. I'd say Shadow wins over her.

Vincent, a former turk vampire with a gun. I think he's impressed me the most in this lineup, and he's not even a required character.

Avalanche are much better fighters than the Returners. AC and DoC proves that.


And then we get to their source of power. Espers are otherworldy beings of great power. Materia is a naturally occurring substance refined to create magical effects, often reducing one's physical capabilities. Espers, on the other hand, actually ENHANCE their user as their user grows in strength.

In the story, Materia don't reduce the phisycal capabilities of anyone.


Kefka just has the higher level of power here, and it took a LOT stronger (and bigger) team to take him down than Sephy.

Like I said before, AC and DoC proves that Avalanche are better fighters than the Returners.

And Kefka having the higher level of power is just opinion. In my opinion, using the corrupted version of the source of magic in the world, to transform the planet in a dead vessel and use it to travell the universe, is much more impressive than destroying some cities with a light from the sky.

[PuPu]

Sephiroth's source of power is Jenova AND the Lifestream. Lifestream is the source of all magic and life in the world of FFVII, and Sephiroth actually suceeded in controlling it, in AC.
He managed to give Geostigma to some children. If he really managed to control all of Lifestream, Cloud wouldn't have been able to stop him, and Seph would have already won. But I would agree that he controlled maybe at least half of Lifestream, but not all.


Well, this is only your opinion, and I will give my: I would say that if we give prep to them Kefka could win, but in a direct combat Sephiroth would be the winner.
Kefka does have more power than Sephiroth, but yeah, Seph would definitely rip Kefka to shreds with his sword. After all, power doesn't necessarily determines who would win a fight.


Avalanche are much better fighters than the Returners. AC and DoC proves that.
Isn't this also an opinion as well, since you have yet to actually explain what this "proof" is?

And I don't know about DoC, but Avalanche didn't really seem to do much in AC. Avalanche beat a few monsters. Cloud was the one who actually defeated Kadaj, Yazoo, Loz, Bahamut, and Sephiroth.



And Kefka having the higher level of power is just opinion. In my opinion, using the corrupted version of the source of magic in the world, to transform the planet in a dead vessel and use it to travell the universe, is much more impressive than destroying some cities with a light from the sky.
And terrorizing the world for many years is more impressive than infecting a few children with Geostigma.

[Firo Volondé]

Sephiroth's source of power is Jenova AND the Lifestream. Lifestream is the source of all magic and life in the world of FFVII, and Sephiroth actually suceeded in controlling it, in AC.
He managed to give Geostigma to some children. If he really managed to control all of Lifestream, Cloud wouldn't have been able to stop him, and Seph would have already won. But I would agree that he controlled maybe at least half of Lifestream, but not all.

Aeris probably controlled enough to keep Sephiroth beatable. But Kefka didn't have a monopoly of magic either, so they're most likely even in terms of power.



Well, this is only your opinion, and I will give my: I would say that if we give prep to them Kefka could win, but in a direct combat Sephiroth would be the winner.
Kefka does have more power than Sephiroth, but yeah, Seph would definitely rip Kefka to shreds with his sword. After all, power doesn't necessarily determines who would win a fight.

And if Kefka was foolish enough to engage the Returners in direct combat rather than smite them from afar, there's no reason why he wouldn't do the same against Sephiroth.



Avalanche are much better fighters than the Returners. AC and DoC proves that.
Isn't this also an opinion as well, since you have yet to actually explain what this "proof" is?

They took down that big freakin' dragon. I didn't see the Returners do anything even remotely as impressive.


And I don't know about DoC, but Avalanche didn't really seem to do much in AC. Avalanche beat a few monsters. Cloud was the one who actually defeated Kadaj, Yazoo, Loz, Bahamut, and Sephiroth.

Aeris defeated Yazoo and Loz, iirc. Cloud used the other seven as launching pads for his fatal strike on Bahamut.



And Kefka having the higher level of power is just opinion. In my opinion, using the corrupted version of the source of magic in the world, to transform the planet in a dead vessel and use it to travell the universe, is much more impressive than destroying some cities with a light from the sky.
And terrorizing the world for many years is more impressive than infecting a few children with Geostigma.

Many years? It was just one. And infecting people with Geostigma was not Seph's ultimate ability.

[The Crystal]

He managed to give Geostigma to some children. If he really managed to control all of Lifestream, Cloud wouldn't have been able to stop him, and Seph would have already won. But I would agree that he controlled maybe at least half of Lifestream, but not all.

He give Geostigma to many people in the world(adults and childrens). This is very clear in "On a Way to a Smile".
And Omega Weapon/Weiss has most of the Lifestream in the world. But if he isn't above Sephiroth(because nothing in FFVII is), then that means Sephiroth has controll over the majority of the Lifestream too, because it is the source of power.


Kefka does have more power than Sephiroth, but yeah, Seph would definitely rip Kefka to shreds with his sword. After all, power doesn't necessarily determines who would win a fight.

Well, when I see "Who is more powerfull" I think in everything, not just magic power. For example, Sephiroth can speedblitz Kefka and kill him, so in my point of view, he is more powerful than Kefka, he is above Kefka, he is the winner of the fight. Sephiroth can beat him, he is the superior one... The most powerful of them.

And I have a qurestion to you. Do you believe Kefka is more powerful than Omega Weapon of DoC? The same one composed of most of the Lifestream in the planet? Because when you see Sephiroth in a battle, you have to remember that he is at least in the level of Omega. "There is nothing above him", remember.


Isn't this also an opinion as well, since you have yet to actually explain what this "proof" is?

The proof is the movie itself, and FMVs of DoC. The fights in the Matrix are a joke compared to the fights in AC. The Returners can't fight like that.


And I don't know about DoC, but Avalanche didn't really seem to do much in AC. Avalanche beat a few monsters. Cloud was the one who actually defeated Kadaj, Yazoo, Loz, Bahamut, and Sephiroth.

Did you watch the movie? Tifa fighting Loz, Avalanche fighting Bahamut, Cloud(he is part of Avalanche, remember?) kicking the ass of everyone. All that WITHOUT Materia.

Now, think about the end of FFVII, when they could do all those things and were FULL of the most powerful Materias in the world... FFVII Sephiroth was defeated by THIS group.


And terrorizing the world for many years is more impressive than infecting a few children with Geostigma.

Like I said before, it wasn't only children. And Kefka terrorized the world, so what? Do you thing this matter in a FIGHT?

[Raebus]

Oh I see, you're using a movie and FMV's from a game that can be highly exaggerated as proof, Got cha. How shall we ever disprove such evidence that isn't in any way exaggerated?!

[The Crystal]

Oh I see, you're using a movie and FMV's from a game that can be highly exaggerated as proof, Got cha. How shall we ever disprove such evidence that isn't in any way exaggerated?!

Everything presented in the movie and game(DoC) is cannon, you liking it or not.

[Raebus]

I'm certainly not liking it, you could make up something and if it was cannon'd then it's automatically TRUE AND UN-ESCAPABLE. The cannon is flawed.

Edit: I'll always think of DoC and Advent Children as an insult to entertainment media and completely exaggerated beyond truth.

[The Crystal]

You can think whatever you want Raebus. But remember that FFVII is their story, and only they have the authority to decide what is cannon and what isn't.

I don't want to offend you, but what SE say about their story, is more important than your opinion about it.





But what I'm really saying in this thread, is... In my opinion, Sephiroth wins.

[Raebus]

and I think that my opinion > All, even SE.

I'm not changing my opinion, ever.

[Forsaken Lover]

It really shouldn't matter what Seph planned to do. No more than it should matter what Kefka was gonna do. Neither did it.

"I shall make this planet into a vessel!"

"I shall kill everyone!"

^^ neither happened. Neither matter.

Also, Omega and Seph both wanted to suck up all the planet's energy. Both failed.

Omega didn't blast off into space and Aeris was still around doing her thing, so Seph wasn't in complete control or I'm pretty sure he would have noticed her.

Then there's the fact FF7 Gaia hasn't been able to heal a big hole. That's some uber mighty life energy I tell ya.

I mean...if a continent got blown up, I think teh planet would just die right then and there. That be WAY too much for it to try healing.

Meanwhile, didnt' Kefka screw with the entire planet?

[Enjolras]

and I think that my opinion > All, even SE.
[!] google_ad_section_end [/!]
I'm not changing my opinion, ever.

Well, Raebus wins the prize for most childish arguing.

From what I've seen of this thread, it seems a lot of people are judging this entirely on magic power, while I'm inclined to agree with those of the opinion that Seph would slice him to pieces in a one-on-one fight.

And I think destroying a few towns and gauging a few scars on the surface of a planet not quite up to the same level as the ability to manipulate all the life force of a planet into killing a great many people and turning the entire planet into a moving vessel to travel the cosmos and no doubt spread such destruction among other places.

And lets not forget that Kefka had to use the statues to gain his power, while Sephiroth with his own power gained control of Jenova and the Lifestream to start his Geostigma plan.

[FF_Chick]

But Kefka was a mere human. Sephiroth was some magical guy. Don't know where his powers came from. Kefka absorbed the power from the statues and made it his own, probably making him MORE insane than he already was.

[Enjolras]

The fact that Kefka started as a normal human doesn't earn him any kind of pity vote or anything.

And Sephiroths powers aren't too mysterious, he was genetically enhanced while in the womb to be a superior being.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I'd like to also point out, AVALANCHE (since we seem to be using these names to signify the group as opposed to the mooks who get killed at some point in the story). took out a single dragon in Advent Children. The Returners, in the World of Ruin, take out 8 dragons. And two demon-thingies.

Also, Sephiroth's sword-play isn't as utterly impressive as people seem to make it out to be. One of the fun things about magic, its damage is generally higher and its range is generally longer. Kefka has the MP to spare. I don't think Sephy's sword's winning him anything here.

And Kefka uses just as much of his own power as Sephiroth. Sephiroth uses Jenova and the Lifestream, Kefka uses Espers and the Statues.

[Forsaken Lover]

quote]And I think destroying a few towns and gauging a few scars on the surface of a planet not quite up to the same level as the ability to manipulate all the life force of a planet into killing a great many people and turning the entire planet into a moving vessel to travel the cosmos and no doubt spread such destruction among other places.[/quote]

Yeah...Sephiroth never did that.

And Geostigma came about because of Jenova getting destroyed and her remains falling into the Lifestream.


And lets not forget that Kefka had to use the statues to gain his power, while Sephiroth with his own power gained control of Jenova and the Lifestream to start his Geostigma plan.

lol Lifestream isn’t Sephiroth’s power. And the Statues aren’t Kefka’s power. Both men leeched off power greater than their own.

[,,,]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that Kefka was an ordinary human before getting power from the statues =/

Kefka was given magic in Cid's early experiments. Remember his wholesale slaughter of Espers at Thasma? Yeah, that was before he got to the floating continent. He massacred waves of espers and then killed the empire's best general all without breaking a sweat. Without the statues. I'd call that a pretty damn powerful guy.

[Avarice-ness]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that Kefka was an ordinary human before getting power from the statues =/

Kefka was given magic in Cid's early experiments. Remember his wholesale slaughter of Espers at Thasma? Yeah, that was before he got to the floating continent. He massacred waves of espers and then killed the empire's best general all without breaking a sweat. Without the statues. I'd call that a pretty damn powerful guy.

It's because most people don't spend their time knowing Kefkas background versus Sephiroths.

Kefka was the original person experimented on with the whole being magically infused thing. Cid knew it was unstable but Kefka still willingly let Cid experiment on him because he knew that in the world of no magic, someone with those kinds of skills could do some owning.

Before the experiments Kefka was already a world hater, luckly for him, the experiments got messed up somewhere down the line 'causing his mind to wither away faster than it already was.

Celes had the same experiments done, luckly for her, all the kinks were worked out with it on Kefka so she came out normal, just an anti-social emo.

Kefka did -alot- of damage before the statues, and already had a mass hate from the people of the free and not free world. That was before all the statues.

[,,,]

It's because most people don't spend their time knowing Kefkas background versus Sephiroths.

Kefka was the original person experimented on with the whole being magically infused thing. Cid knew it was unstable but Kefka still willingly let Cid experiment on him because he knew that in the world of no magic, someone with those kinds of skills could do some owning.

Before the experiments Kefka was already a world hater, luckly for him, the experiments got messed up somewhere down the line 'causing his mind to wither away faster than it already was.

Celes had the same experiments done, luckly for her, all the kinks were worked out with it on Kefka so she came out normal, just an anti-social emo.

Kefka did -alot- of damage before the statues, and already had a mass hate from the people of the free and not free world. That was before all the statues.

So it's up to us to spread the message! Or, mostly just you. Where'd you get all that info? I didn't know the part about him already being well on his way to being a madman before the experiments, just that the experiments really messed him up. And I didn't know Kefka had any idea of the risks beforehand, I kind of assumed it was the opposite. Is that in the game anywhere?

And here I thought I had pretty much all the info on my second favorite madman that there was to know, now I feel inferior =(

[Firo Volondé]

If Kefka was so big and unbeatable before obtaining the Goddess Statues, why didn't he kill Sabin when they met in the Imperial Camp near Doma, instead of running away, cackling and making awful jokes?

[Forsaken Lover]

'cause he's MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDD!!!!!

Seriously though, I got no idea.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

If Kefka was so big and unbeatable before obtaining the Goddess Statues, why didn't he kill Sabin when they met in the Imperial Camp near Doma, instead of running away, cackling and making awful jokes?

Because he had better things to do like poisoning an entire castle?

[Goldenboko]

If Kefka was so big and unbeatable before obtaining the Goddess Statues, why didn't he kill Sabin when they met in the Imperial Camp near Doma, instead of running away, cackling and making awful jokes?
Because then Square would have to think of a reason why he survived, or introduce a character to take his place in WoR. :p

[Rengori]

If Kefka was so big and unbeatable before obtaining the Goddess Statues, why didn't he kill Sabin when they met in the Imperial Camp near Doma, instead of running away, cackling and making awful jokes?

How many times did Sephiroth have a chance to kill Cloud and friends and not take it?

[Avarice-ness]

It's because most people don't spend their time knowing Kefkas background versus Sephiroths.

Kefka was the original person experimented on with the whole being magically infused thing. Cid knew it was unstable but Kefka still willingly let Cid experiment on him because he knew that in the world of no magic, someone with those kinds of skills could do some owning.

Before the experiments Kefka was already a world hater, luckly for him, the experiments got messed up somewhere down the line 'causing his mind to wither away faster than it already was.

Celes had the same experiments done, luckly for her, all the kinks were worked out with it on Kefka so she came out normal, just an anti-social emo.

Kefka did -alot- of damage before the statues, and already had a mass hate from the people of the free and not free world. That was before all the statues.

So it's up to us to spread the message! Or, mostly just you. Where'd you get all that info? I didn't know the part about him already being well on his way to being a madman before the experiments, just that the experiments really messed him up. And I didn't know Kefka had any idea of the risks beforehand, I kind of assumed it was the opposite. Is that in the game anywhere?

And here I thought I had pretty much all the info on my second favorite madman that there was to know, now I feel inferior =(

It's what happens when you go around and talk to every person in every town multiple times. At some point when Kefka was imprisoned in Vector, one of the random soliders says something about Kefka's sanity being off before everything ever went down. I'll replay through for screens. =D Because.. I replay through for no reasons anyway. XD


If Kefka was so big and unbeatable before obtaining the Goddess Statues, why didn't he kill Sabin when they met in the Imperial Camp near Doma, instead of running away, cackling and making awful jokes?

Yeah, that wouldn't be fun at all. The sounds of an entire castle having their lungs melted seems so much more fun then killing a couple of guys. He clearly made the right choice.

[The Crystal]

And I think destroying a few towns and gauging a few scars on the surface of a planet not quite up to the same level as the ability to manipulate all the life and magic source of a planet into killing a great many people and turning the entire planet into a moving vessel to travel the cosmos and no doubt spread such destruction among other places/planets.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

And I think destroying a few towns and gauging a few scars on the surface of a planet not quite up to the same level as the ability to manipulate all the life and magic source of a planet into killing a great many people and turning the entire planet into a moving vessel to travel the cosmos and no doubt spread such destruction among other places/planets.

When does he do that, exactly? He never had full control and the amount of people he killed was fairly marginal.

[Forsaken Lover]

He never did any of that. Thanks to the pure luck of Jenova falling into the Lifestream, he was able to use Geostigma. But since his form of the Lifestream never took over the Planet's, he never got to planet-moving power. Not even close. It's as irrelevant as Kefka planning to kill all life.

And can anyone tell me if Cloud's Omnislash is more powerful than a Light of Judgment? Said Omnislash owned Sephiroth so unless it equals city-destroying power, it's less than what Kefka can do.

And yes, refacing the planet is way more impressive than corrupting the Lifestream. It requires a bit more effort and since the Lifestream has ALWAYS been weaker than Jenova ie. Jenova has been stopping the Planet from fully healing for millennia, it's only natural Sephiroth's Negative Lifestream was winning.

[Firo Volondé]

Because he had better things to do like poisoning an entire castle?


Yeah, that wouldn't be fun at all. The sounds of an entire castle having their lungs melted seems so much more fun then killing a couple of guys. He clearly made the right choice.

I'm sorry, but those just aren't valid arguments. Where do you get the idea that if Kefka killed Sabin, he couldn't continue with his plan, either by running out of time or for any other reason? It would only take a couple of seconds if he so as powerful as you claim he was, and he could easily claim they were assassins sent to kill him and Leo. I repeat, why did Kefka run for his life from a simple bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym, and couldn't even use magic?


Because then Square would have to think of a reason why he survived, or introduce a character to take his place in WoR. :p

But Square are the masters of poorly explained survivals. Hell, basically the whole IV cast except for Cecil looked to be dead at some point. They also did it with Duncan, so why not with with Sabin?


How many times did Sephiroth have a chance to kill Cloud and friends and not take it?

There's a subtle difference here. Sephiroth never had a reason to kill anybody other than Aeris, since she was the only one he perceived as a threat. That doesn't mean he's weak, but that he was arrogant and overconfident. Kefka would have doubtlessly perceived Sabin as a threat when Sabin tried to beat him to a bloody pulp, so why didn't he off him? Simple. He wasn't powerful enough.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Because he had better things to do like poisoning an entire castle?


Yeah, that wouldn't be fun at all. The sounds of an entire castle having their lungs melted seems so much more fun then killing a couple of guys. He clearly made the right choice.

I'm sorry, but those just aren't valid arguments. Where do you get the idea that if Kefka killed Sabin, he couldn't continue with his plan, either by running out of time or for any other reason? It would only take a couple of seconds if he so as powerful as you claim he was, and he could easily claim they were assassins sent to kill him and Leo. I repeat, why did Kefka run for his life from a simple bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym, and couldn't even use magic?


Because then Square would have to think of a reason why he survived, or introduce a character to take his place in WoR. :p

But Square are the masters of poorly explained survivals. Hell, basically the whole IV cast except for Cecil looked to be dead at some point. They also did it with Duncan, so why not with with Sabin?


How many times did Sephiroth have a chance to kill Cloud and friends and not take it?

There's a subtle difference here. Sephiroth never had a reason to kill anybody other than Aeris, since she was the only one he perceived as a threat. That doesn't mean he's weak, but that he was arrogant and overconfident. Kefka would have doubtlessly perceived Sabin as a threat when Sabin tried to beat him to a bloody pulp, so why didn't he off him? Simple. He wasn't powerful enough.

Kefka never once took Sabin seriously in that entire encounter. That qualifies under the "does not perceive as a threat." At that point Kefka was a high-ranking Imperial Official inside an army base and Sabin was a brawny guy who waltzed in and decided to start chasing after him and interrupting his plans for some reason he probably wasn't aware of (assuming he cared, this being Kefka, probably not). Why should he waste his time?

This argument is often brought up in D&D circles when high-level people start handing out quests to low-level people. The answer is that the high-level people have better things to do with their time and resources, so they leave the lower-level challenges to their expendable minions.

[The Crystal]

And I think destroying a few towns and gauging a few scars on the surface of a planet not quite up to the same level as the ability to manipulate all the life and magic source of a planet into killing a great many people and turning the entire planet into a moving vessel to travel the cosmos and no doubt spread such destruction among other places/planets.

When does he do that, exactly? He never had full control and the amount of people he killed was fairly marginal.

He has controll over the majority of the Lifestream. This is why the creators said that he was in his most powerful form in AC, and that there is nothing above him in the world of FFVII. In AC he was THAT powerful. But he didn't use all this power against Cloud, and paid for that.

[Rengori]

And I think destroying a few towns and gauging a few scars on the surface of a planet not quite up to the same level as the ability to manipulate all the life and magic source of a planet into killing a great many people and turning the entire planet into a moving vessel to travel the cosmos and no doubt spread such destruction among other places/planets.

When does he do that, exactly? He never had full control and the amount of people he killed was fairly marginal.

He has controll over the majority of the Lifestream. This is why the creators said that he was in his most powerful form in AC, and that there is nothing above him in the world of FFVII. In AC he was THAT powerful. But he didn't use all this power against Cloud, and paid for that.

Please cite where you're pulling all this stuff out of, I'm interested in actually understanding what the fuck actually happened in AC.

[The Crystal]

Please cite where you're pulling all this stuff out of, I'm interested in actually understanding what the smurf actually happened in AC.

I'm pulling all this out of the Reunion Files, and interviews with the creators in the japanese DVD of AC.

Translation of the UOG and RF: Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega FAQ - IGN FAQs (http://faqs.ign.com/articles/698/698416p1.html)

Translation of some parts of the interview in the DVD:
http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=109&more=1 (http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=109&more=1)

This will certainly help you understand the movie.

[Forsaken Lover]

He obviously can dish out more than he can take. Because even if he didn't use his full strength on Cloud, that shouldn't effect his damage soak.

So, one Light of Judgment and goodbye.

[The Crystal]

After watching some videos of CC, I saw that Sephiroth can move so fast that it give the impression he is teleporting. And this is even before his fall in the Lifestream.

Another reason why he wins.

[Forsaken Lover]

Didn't the Statues give the user some sort of protection?