Mistwalker Vs SqaureEnix?

[Hazzard]

With their recent game in product; Lost Odyssey, and the trailer looking quite impressive, they seem to even be holding talks of expanding their line of work on the game into a trilogy, comparing it to Final Fantasy, and many fans even speculating that it may override Final Fantasy in the next generation of gaming.

Sakaguchi and Uematsu seemed to of reunited, and are hard at work on this game, also many former Square colleagues are departing Square for Mistwalker. It leaves you thinking that Sakaguchi is a rather powerful influence upon his former co-workers, and that he might be the man to finish what he created, with an even better branch of gaming.

So, do you think that the Fabula Nova Cystallis, and the upcoming SqaureEnix titles will match up to Mistwalker's ideas for gaming, or will we be witnessing a new takeover in RPGing?

On a side note: BioWare has been tipped for creating the best looking RPG to be connected to our television screens, at this moment; Mass Effect, being the title of the game.

[JKTrix]

While I would love to see Square-Enix get shaken up a bit, I highly doubt that Lost Odyssey will be the one to do it. Let's face it, the land of RPGs is Japan. Lost Odyssey is an Xbox 360 game. It is impossible for an Xbox 360 game to have enough influence on the buying public of Japan to sway then from Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy (the two biggest franchises over there).

That's not to say that Mistwalker will not gain influence over time. Mistwalker is not owned by Microsoft, so they will be releasing games on other systems. Archaic Sealed Heat (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/yasj/index.html) is an upcoming game for the Nintendo DS--a game that would do well for advancing their clout in the RPG space. (Here's some new information on the game from a few days ago. (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3162853))

I don't doubt that Mistwalker has the potential to be something big, but if they stay with the 360 for their biggest games, they may have to relinquish the consumer support of their homeland. Sakaguchi obviously has something that people still like, if your story about Square employees joining Mistwalker is true. The biggest 360 sales spike in Japan was when Blue Dragon came out, so there are people who do want to play his games. If A.S.H. becomes a successful enough franchise, they'd be well on their way.

[Dragonsoul]

I like this thread! I am not as confident in Mistwalker right now after renting Blue Dragon. Lost Odyssey may be great, but I think they may not be on the level of FF XIII and FF V XIII, which is about as good as rpg's get. Also, I'm not sure if ASH will be popular. Cry On is their fourth game, Blue Dragon 2 next, then an untitled Mmorpg

[XxSephirothxX]

You can't know FFXIII and Versus XIII will turn out to be "about as good as RPG's get" when we've hardly seen anything specific about the gameplay, storyline, or characters beyond a few screenshots and a vague plot outline.

Anyway, I agree with Trix. The 360 doesn't have a large enough base in Japan to threaten anybody. If Mistwalker starts releasing more games on Nintendo and Sony platforms, their influence will grow.

I don't think there will ever be a "takeover." They'll just both be popular.

[Fatal Impurity]

Yeah I mean when FF came out It was the new boy on the block, trying to take out the the big guy Dragon Quest but it never suceeded. Eventhough it was in the day and age where game franchises were more fragile than they are today (with thier multi-million dollar budgets behind them). Basically because of the world we live in it'll be practically impossible for ANY RPG (nevermind an RPG on a system that hasn't been well recieved in Japan) to completely dominate/obliterate/takeover the other franchises.

[Jessweeee♪]

Being the little fangirl I am I'm going to say SQUARE-ENIX DEFEATS ALL WITH THEIR PERFECT SIDES AND SHARP CORNERS!

[Nifleheim7]

I think a little competition never hurt anyone.
With that said,i think it's unfair to compare SquareEnix with Mistwalker.The former is an established company with a history that goes back some 24 years (as square) and Enix more than 30...The merging of the two giants made a beast of a company that is very hard to compete with,especially a new one like Mistwalker.The later has a dream team of developers but that doesn't mean much as recent reviews on blue Dragon showed.
What Mistwalker needs is time and as JKTrix said they must not focus in only one system (especially 360) if they want to compete in the RPG genre.

[Brennan]

SE pwns MW

[Zora]

Doubt out. ASH is the only non-Microsoft game they have right now. Four titles (BD, LO, CO, and BD2) are going to Microsoft. As we know that Microsoft does terrible in Japan, and most Americans just want shooters on their Xbox 360. I imagine the only reason Lost Odyssey caught there eye was the graphics. Americans set the standard for video games way too high. I am talking about the mainstream audience, not us (the fact we managed to tolerate some of SE's, well, mistakes is enoguh reason to show we have tolerance). Anyways, the mainstream audience doesn't like the RPG genre.

KH got popular because of Disney and FFVII/FFX characters, FF was popular when FFVII came out, Pokemon is just very popular, and last but not least, Mario RPGs because it is Mario. Out of these titles, all of which are the only RPGs IIRC to get over a million sales in America, only Kingdom Hearts was created recently, and mainly becasue of the Disney characters. Moreover, generally speaking these are the only series to get scores of 9 or greater. I think all RPGs who got an America press average of 9 or great was created by Nintendo or Square, but correct me if I am wrong.

And Americans are just way too picky. Long-story short, they have nothing to relate too. Those names mean nothing to them on the back of the box. More people are fimiliar with Uematsu's works (*cough*One-WindAngel*cough*) than the guy himself, and the artist for DBZ and CT is pratically tabooed here, although I don't think he is doing LO. Anyways, I need to shorten this. Only KH got popular of RPGs created/ported in the last decade, and it was because of Disney.

So basically, we know there won't be Japanese support, only having BD and ES over there right now. Only hardcore will bother with Lost Odyssey, and even then most 360 owners won't care much about JRPGs. Now, quality-wise maybe, but in terms of commerical success, MW will need to get VERY lucky in order to get more sales. In Japan they have little fans, and in America they have little fans. I can see it getting a big fanbase, probably as big as the Tales of fanbase, but to see a it getting all they way to where SE is? Forget it, there is a slim chance of that happening.

[JKTrix]

To translate the acronyms in the above post for people who don't know (some are obvious, some not so obvious, so I'll do them all):
ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat
BD: Blue Dragon
LO: Lost Odyssey
CO: Cry On (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cry_On) (Sakaguchi wants to make players cry every 15 minutes... a shoujo game?)
BD2: Blue Dragon Two
SE: Square-Enix
RPG: Role Playing Game
KH: Kingdom Hearts
FF: Final Fantasy
FFVII/FFX: Final Fantasy Seven/Final Fantasy Ten
IIRC: "If I Recall"
DBZ: Dragon Ball Z
CT: Chrono Trigger
ES: Eternal Sonata (not a Squenix or Mistwalker game)
MW: Mistwalker

There's another RPG that's been out on the 360 for a while (and came out later for PS3) called Enchanted Arm. You don't remember it because...it wasn't really that memorable. It was a decent game that only 'survived' because it was the only game of its type at the time. Apparently the PS3 version has more content, but more glitches or something as well.

[Madame Adequate]

the artist for DBZ and CT is pratically tabooed here

Just gonna throw this out here; CT is the only time I've ever liked Toriyama's work.

I'd agree with the general assessments. Getting a good reputation for JRPGs would be a point in the 360's favor, but ultimately it doesn't seem like the kind of genre the game is geared towards. It's more likely the important 360-based RPGs will be more the traditional western style; as KOTOR and Jade Empire were highly regarded and successful on the original X-Box, so things like Mass Effect are likely to be on the 360.

[The Unknown Guru]

I doubt that anything will ever "beat" Squeenix. It's just too old and legendary for anyone to try to beat them at their own game.

[Zora]

the artist for DBZ and CT is pratically tabooed here

Just gonna throw this out here; CT is the only time I've ever liked Toriyama's work.



Ya, I only cared for CT too. BD was alright, but the designs weren't that memorable. I will admit though, there are a lot of enemy designs that are just clever, others are just boring. But that wasn't my point. It is just because of DBZ, as soon as people see something remotely similiar to his designs, they immediattely turn off the game. This is dangerous for MW getting American support, seeing as Japanese support is unlikely.

BUT, if Microsoft was very serious of getting the 360 popular in Japan, just give Square lots a mulah to put DQX on the 360. I garuntee you, that will make the Xbox a mainstream console if, but some near-impossible chance, it gets DQX.

[Bolivar]

First, it's hard to compare because they're two different companies. MW has maybe 10 actual employees the rest are concept teams that Sakaguchi puts together of his old friends. They then outsource their games to other companies.

SE on the other hand has numerous different full development teams working on various projects, and they have not one, but 2 flagship RPGs, one of which is the most popular in Japan, the other the most popular in the world.

Second, I think XBox's traditional unpopularity in Japan is something that is changing as we speak. A good number of systems were sold in Japan off of BD alone and I can only imagine what will happen when LO comes out. Take into account Mass Effect and the fact that along with the DS it has possibly the most RPGs being made for it, I think the times are changing, if only a little right now.

Also, I want to refute what Zora said - that Americans "dislike" RPGs. Just because something isn't bought doesn't mean that there is a negative opinion about it, much less an opinion at all. In America the PC contributed to games as the console did in Japan, and because of the mouse and keyboard instead of a controller, we received and played some groundbreaking and amazing titles that are foreign (in 2 senses of the word) in Japan - The RTS with Command & Conquer, the FPS with Doom and then reborn with Half Life, and the PC RPG with Balder's Gate, Ultima, and Everquest. In Japan they are just starting to realize what these games are about just like Americans realized what RPGs are all about with FFVII.

I think we're also going to see Dragon Quest get more popular in the states too. I was under the impression that the Akira Toriyama aspect created more fans, if anything, considering how immensely popular DBZ was. VII was the first game in a while to be brought to the states and VIII received a big push. Although the DS is more a Japanese handheld I think IX will probably follow this trend.

It'll be interesting to see what happens but IMO Sakaguchi was a better producer/coordinator than designer and all of his proteges are now some of the best in the business. Unless he really revolutionizes RPGs once again, I don't see any company, Mistwalker included, topping Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.

[Zora]

Also, I want to refute what Zora said - that Americans "dislike" RPGs. Just because something isn't bought doesn't mean that there is a negative opinion about it, much less an opinion at all. In America the PC contributed to games as the console did in Japan, and because of the mouse and keyboard instead of a controller, we received and played some groundbreaking and amazing titles that are foreign (in 2 senses of the word) in Japan - The RTS with Command & Conquer, the FPS with Doom and then reborn with Half Life, and the PC RPG with Balder's Gate, Ultima, and Everquest. In Japan they are just starting to realize what these games are about just like Americans realized what RPGs are all about with FFVII.

I am talking about modern times here. I am not going to deny it, few people like JRPGs outside FF, KH, Mario RPGs, and Pokemon. What I am saying, is that unless a game can appeal to many, only established RPGs are going to make noteworthy sales in America, and MistWalker isn't creating anything that can appeal to many. RPGs have strong fanbase, but is mroe of a cult fanbase than a large appeal fanbase, which will let MW from getting popular in America. I just doubt that MW will get any mass appeal in America, simply because of the fact people, generally, do not like MOST RPGs THESE days (in the Western World).

I think we're also going to see Dragon Quest get more popular in the states too. I was under the impression that the Akira Toriyama aspect created more fans, if anything, considering how immensely popular DBZ was. VII was the first game in a while to be brought to the states and VIII received a big push. Although the DS is more a Japanese handheld I think IX will probably follow this trend.

Toriyama created a lot of fans, but also many don't like his works (or don't find them attractive in a sense), simply because they can't stand his style. Albeit, it isn't just his style, because most of what he does is traditional for Japan anyways, just the spikes on the hair are a bit different. Anyways, America has a strong dislike for graphical styling, Toriyama or not. They just LIKE realistic graphics, which LO has to offer.

The problem is that they, sometimes, incoopared graphics meaning better gameplay too much, even if they don't admit it. Just put Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey next to each other, or Wind Waker and Twlight Princess, or Animal Crossing and the Sims next to each other, a garuntee you your average American will say the one with more realistic graphics is better. I am probably boring you with this, I just noticed that during the time before Blue Dragon even had a demo, I observed that people complained about the DBZ-styled graphics.

It'll be interesting to see what happens but IMO Sakaguchi was a better producer/coordinator than designer and all of his proteges are now some of the best in the business. Unless he really revolutionizes RPGs once again, I don't see any company, Mistwalker included, topping Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.

That, I can argee with.

[XandrewX]

ATLUS..just kidding =X

[Mogi]

Square, square, square.
Has to be square.

[Karellen]

I doubt JRPGs will ever become particularly popular with your average gamer. To most people, JRPGs just plain aren't that fun to play.

[Slothy]

Second, I think XBox's traditional unpopularity in Japan is something that is changing as we speak. A good number of systems were sold in Japan off of BD alone and I can only imagine what will happen when LO comes out. Take into account Mass Effect and the fact that along with the DS it has possibly the most RPGs being made for it, I think the times are changing, if only a little right now.

I wouldn't count on the 360 getting all that popular in Japan. In the last two years it's managed to sell less than 400,000 units. Pretty pathetic by anyone's standards. Granted it saw a boost when Blue Dragon came out, but it's sales quickly dropped again, and it never came close to outselling anything but the Gamecube. Lost Odyssey may have a similar effect, but I doubt it will last. Also, this may sound a little bad, but the Japanese aren't likely to care about Mass Effect. Regardless of how good it looks, they don't typically care for North American games. North American RPG's in particular. The only place Mistwalker will ever do well if they stick with the 360 is North America and possibly Europe, but not if every game is as average as Blue Dragon. My preference would be for Square.

[Yew-Yevon]

Sqaure all the way. They don't juast make RPG's eather they've also made other games in different genres.

[Raebus]

Different genre games that sold well but were generally terrible*

Square should stick to RPG's but I'm still holding onto my opinion until I see more of Mistwalker.

[Yew-Yevon]

Full metal alchemist was not a terrible game.

[edczxcvbnm]

Full metal alchemist was not a terrible game.

But it wasn't good either :P

I don't care which one wins as neither makes RPGs I really want to play now and days. I have pretty much left RPG fixes up to Namco/Bandai.

[Madame Adequate]

I doubt JRPGs will ever become particularly popular with your average gamer. To most people, JRPGs just plain aren't that fun to play.

Which is why FFs are generally one of the biggest releases in whichever year a new one comes out?

[Hazzard]

I doubt JRPGs will ever become particularly popular with your average gamer. To most people, JRPGs just plain aren't that fun to play.

Which is why FFs are generally one of the biggest releases in whichever year a new one comes out?

Yeah, I think you got confused there, Karellen. JRPGs are the genre that Final Fantasy is slotted under, my friend.

[Karellen]

Yeah, looking back I didn't quite think that through.

[Bolivar]

Also, I want to refute what Zora said - that Americans "dislike" RPGs. Just because something isn't bought doesn't mean that there is a negative opinion about it, much less an opinion at all. In America the PC contributed to games as the console did in Japan, and because of the mouse and keyboard instead of a controller, we received and played some groundbreaking and amazing titles that are foreign (in 2 senses of the word) in Japan - The RTS with Command & Conquer, the FPS with Doom and then reborn with Half Life, and the PC RPG with Balder's Gate, Ultima, and Everquest. In Japan they are just starting to realize what these games are about just like Americans realized what RPGs are all about with FFVII.

I am talking about modern times here. I am not going to deny it, few people like JRPGs outside FF, KH, Mario RPGs, and Pokemon. What I am saying, is that unless a game can appeal to many, only established RPGs are going to make noteworthy sales in America, and MistWalker isn't creating anything that can appeal to many. RPGs have strong fanbase, but is mroe of a cult fanbase than a large appeal fanbase, which will let MW from getting popular in America. I just doubt that MW will get any mass appeal in America, simply because of the fact people, generally, do not like MOST RPGs THESE days (in the Western World).


That's just how the American Economy works. Whether its Japanese RPGs, Hip Hop CD's, Martial Arts Films, or cleaning products, the market traditionally directs consumers to a select few products.



Toriyama created a lot of fans, but also many don't like his works (or don't find them attractive in a sense), simply because they can't stand his style. Albeit, it isn't just his style, because most of what he does is traditional for Japan anyways, just the spikes on the hair are a bit different. Anyways, America has a strong dislike for graphical styling, Toriyama or not. They just LIKE realistic graphics, which LO has to offer.

The problem is that they, sometimes, incoopared graphics meaning better gameplay too much, even if they don't admit it. Just put Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey next to each other, or Wind Waker and Twlight Princess, or Animal Crossing and the Sims next to each other, a garuntee you your average American will say the one with more realistic graphics is better. I am probably boring you with this, I just noticed that during the time before Blue Dragon even had a demo, I observed that people complained about the DBZ-styled graphics.



I think there's alot of truth in that.




Second, I think XBox's traditional unpopularity in Japan is something that is changing as we speak. A good number of systems were sold in Japan off of BD alone and I can only imagine what will happen when LO comes out. Take into account Mass Effect and the fact that along with the DS it has possibly the most RPGs being made for it, I think the times are changing, if only a little right now.

I wouldn't count on the 360 getting all that popular in Japan. In the last two years it's managed to sell less than 400,000 units. Pretty pathetic by anyone's standards. Granted it saw a boost when Blue Dragon came out, but it's sales quickly dropped again, and it never came close to outselling anything but the Gamecube. Lost Odyssey may have a similar effect, but I doubt it will last. Also, this may sound a little bad, but the Japanese aren't likely to care about Mass Effect. Regardless of how good it looks, they don't typically care for North American games. North American RPG's in particular. The only place Mistwalker will ever do well if they stick with the 360 is North America and possibly Europe, but not if every game is as average as Blue Dragon. My preference would be for Square.


Well, like I said, if anything it's very small steps, but they are steps forward. I can only see them being replicated with Lost Odyssey, and especially down the line since Amano and Sakaguchi have said that they want to/will be working together down the line. If Uematsu is also on that game, it is going to be a big event. Considering these games sell consoles, it's going to leave Japanese gamers with XBox360's who are going to be buying different games and the hype will eventually start rolling from there.

[Hazzard]

Well, like I said, if anything it's very small steps, but they are steps forward. I can only see them being replicated with Lost Odyssey, and especially down the line since Amano and Sakaguchi have said that they want to/will be working together down the line. If Uematsu is also on that game, it is going to be a big event. Considering these games sell consoles, it's going to leave Japanese gamers with XBox360's who are going to be buying different games and the hype will eventually start rolling from there.

Now that's, something I agree with.

[Slothy]

Different genre games that sold well but were generally terrible*

Bite your tongue. Einhander was godly.


Well, like I said, if anything it's very small steps, but they are steps forward. I can only see them being replicated with Lost Odyssey, and especially down the line since Amano and Sakaguchi have said that they want to/will be working together down the line. If Uematsu is also on that game, it is going to be a big event. Considering these games sell consoles, it's going to leave Japanese gamers with XBox360's who are going to be buying different games and the hype will eventually start rolling from there.

Well, there are other factors to consider. Yes, Japanese gamers who bought the 360 for Blue Dragon will likely buy other games, but the fact is it's an American console and largely supported by American developers. Japanese developer support has certainly increased since the days of the Xbox but American games and consoles rarely do well over there. Especially now when the Japanese market is turning heavily to the casual games of systems like the Wii and DS. American games don't interest your typical Japanese gamer, just as much because they aren't Japanese as because of the differences in gameplay styles. The 360 is certainly a bigger success than the Xbox in Japan, but I don't think we'll see a meaningful shift in the Japanese market towards the console. I agree that they're taking small steps forward, but I doubt even Microsoft's next console years from now will be able to make a sizable dent in that market.