Zell and Ultimecia

[Serapy]

The faces of

Zell - here (http://www.ffcompendium.com/art/8-zell-c.jpg)
Ultimecia - here (http://www.squarehybrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/ultimecia.jpg)

Well, the graphic designer who designed these characters must have a first thought - both of the characters were linked at some point (in blood, maybe?). The thought is then just meaningless now because of changes to the story - there's no relationship or anything about between Zell and Ultimecia in the game anymore.
But this could be flawed, Squall and other members didn't know anything about Time Compression , so could it be a possibility that they didn't know about the link between Zell and Ultimecia too? They have never been bothered to find out about that because it's not really important, all of thier minds were always focused on how to beat Time Compression, saving Rinoa, etc.

concluding...

- Both of thier faces' tattoos match the resemblance of each other (not exactly same but very similar).
- As I recall from the game, there's nobody else who has tattoos on thier faces, apart from Zell and Ultimecia. A bit suspicious? I think so.

If the whole thing is just a pure coincidence that has nothing to do with anything then there must have a reason why the graphic designer made similar tattoos for both characters, that designer must had had some thoughts. I seriously don't think that I'd make things that are similar to each other in a game (well maybe apart from the characters' sizes, backgrounds, etc.) but tattoos only on two characters? No way.

Sooo... there's a possibility that Zell and Ultimecia are related in some sort, they just don't know it in the game ;)
But I don't know if tattoos is the right word to use.
When Zell was born, did he recieve tattoos from his genes or got them from a shop? What about Ultimecia? If they got them off thier genes, then that must be something. If both of them got them from a shop, then they have the same common interest. Although...I doubt Ultimecia being a god (having power of time compression) would have gone to a shop and get the tattoos... that's just fishy.

[blackmage_nuke]

Maybe zell started a trend and everyone hip in the future's got one

[Captain Maxx Power]

Stop him, he's stealing Future Esthar's act!

[Marshall Banana]

Edea and Adel also have facial marks, if I'm not mistaken. =O

[Shauna]

Zell = Edea = Adel = Ultimecia?!

[Marshall Banana]

Zell = bad dialogue.

[BG-57]

Since Ultimecia is from the future she could theoretically be the decendant of any of the main characters, including Zell. But I find it unlikely. There's no hint in the game data or conversations to the effect that they are related. And in any Square game where they want you to realize two characters are related without saying so directly, they would supply liberal hints to that effect.

Two examples would include Squall's parents and Relm's father.

[Serapy]

Since Ultimecia is from the future she could theoretically be the decendant of any of the main characters, including Zell. But I find it unlikely. There's no hint in the game data or conversations to the effect that they are related. And in any Square game where they want you to realize two characters are related without saying so directly, they would supply liberal hints to that effect.

Two examples would include Squall's parents and Relm's father.

Yes, all the main characters are decendants of Ultimecia in specific timelines but Zell seems out-special the other characters since he has the tattoos just like Ultimecia.

Captain Maxx Power, don't be jealous. You know you can do the same ;) So join the club.

Marshall banana, yes I have noticed the same. But Zell is just a human among other humans (millions of them) and it's totally suspicious that he has tattoos just like Ultimecia when millions of other humans don't have tattoos. Any interpretation would be gladly appreciated.

blackmage_nuke, LOL that could be a possibility. Ultimecia wanted to look evil and when she looked at Zell through the past, she was then got inspired and made similar tattoos for herself. Or Ultimecia randomly picked someone (Zell, in this case) and added tattoos on his face. But problem is, it's just very weird for one human out of millions to take tattoos... so I still think that my theory in my first post sounds more plausible anyway.

[Hyperion4444]

Ultimecia's True Form is Her Final Form.
Ultimecia Human, like Griever, is merely a projection of either them, their Darkside or their Dreams.
In either case, it's in their Minds, pulled to reality.
It's like they are facing their own powers.
And Griever is the same for the GFs, Stopping at Alexander. (Since the rest is optional, could be them all)
Ifrit's Face, Cerberus' Arms, Diablo's Tail ... See a ressemblence?

[BG-57]

Yes, all the main characters are decendants of Ultimecia in specific timelines but Zell seems out-special the other characters since he has the tattoos just like Ultimecia.

Wait, where did you get this impression? And how could people from the past be the decendants of someone from the future?


Marshall banana, yes I have noticed the same. But Zell is just a human among other humans (millions of them) and it's totally suspicious that he has tattoos just like Ultimecia when millions of other humans don't have tattoos. Any interpretation would be gladly appreciated.

Except that many people have tattoos who aren't related. If their facial tattoos are exactly the same, I'd be more suspicious. A story where identical tattoos are used to this effect would be the Hakkenden.

[rubah]

Ultimecia has weird facial markings because she's a sorceress and has been mutating for a long time.

Zell has a tattoo because nomura thought it would be cool. Seriously, there's an interview where he says as much :}

[Serapy]

Can you link me the interview? Even if he thought it would be cool, but I believe he had had the first reason to put the tattoos because they look almost the same as Ulti... and that first reason must be something... like Z and U are related or whatever.

BG-57, not all people in the game wear tattoos, only apart from Zell and Ulti as far as I recall. That's why it is..

Ultimecia not only came from the future, but she lived before past and present because of time compression. At some point, yes, Ultimecia came from the future, she gotta have a family in which created her, otherwise she won't exist. That family consisted of someone involved. I don't wanna add more details because it's kinda part of R=U theories.

[Sefie1999AD]

BG-57, not all people in the game wear tattoos, only apart from Zell and Ulti as far as I recall. That's why it is..

Adel had a lot of tattoos, even in the face, and I think Edea had some too.


Ultimecia not only came from the future, but she lived before past and present because of time compression. At some point, yes, Ultimecia came from the future, she gotta have a family in which created her, otherwise she won't exist. That family consisted of someone involved. I don't wanna add more details because it's kinda part of R=U theories.

Ah, but this makes a whole new point. You see, Rinoa isn't Ultimecia, it's actually Zell = Ultimecia. :p

[blackmage_nuke]

BG-57, not all people in the game wear tattoos, only apart from Zell and Ulti as far as I recall. That's why it is.. Not quite, Riona has a love heart with the words RH+SL tatooed on her butt

[Mogi]

There's no hint in the game data or conversations to the effect that they are related. And in any Square game where they want you to realize two characters are related without saying so directly, they would supply liberal hints to that effect.

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Conclusion.
:mog:

[rubah]

FLAREgamer | Tetsuya Nomura's 20s (http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=81&more=1)

ctrl+f and type zell, it's right there :}

[BG-57]

Can you link me the interview? Even if he thought it would be cool, but I believe he had had the first reason to put the tattoos because they look almost the same as Ulti... and that first reason must be something... like Z and U are related or whatever.

If some game designer went on record as saying that was his or her intention that would be one thing, but speculation is not the same as proof.


BG-57, not all people in the game wear tattoos, only apart from Zell and Ulti as far as I recall. That's why it is..

Other people have already addressed this point.


Ultimecia not only came from the future, but she lived before past and present because of time compression. At some point, yes, Ultimecia came from the future, she gotta have a family in which created her, otherwise she won't exist. That family consisted of someone involved. I don't wanna add more details because it's kinda part of R=U theories.

If, as you seem to be suggesting, that Ultimecia is a future incarnation of Rinoa, then she could hardly be the ancestor of Zell since Rinoa and Zell were born in the same month and year. And while it may be possible that one or both of them were conceived during time compression, it seems very unlikely. And certainly there is nothing in the game to suggest that anything like that happened.

[Sweet Beloved]

Maybe zell started a trend and everyone hip in the future's got one

el oh el.
Zell must be quite the trendsetter.

[Ashley Schovitz]

I don't see the similarity in their markings, but who says that's a tatoo on her face for fact!? I say it's just some purple hooker make-up. I wouldn't see Ultimecia being related to Zell without the game designers hinting it in the game or revealing it in an interview.

[Heath]

Zell has a tattoo because nomura thought it would be cool. Seriously, there's an interview where he says as much :}

I think you're underestimating how badly Square didn't want this to get out! It's a conspiracy!

[Raebus]

Zell = Edea = Adel = Ultimecia?!

Zell = Edea + Fashion Trend = Ultimecia?!

I'm waiting for pudding to be introduced into this equation.

[Jimsour]

I dont see the resemblence..

at all..

[ReloadPsi]

Zell is Mike Tyson, not Ultimecia, we've been over this already. (http://forums.eyesonff.com/2214429-post53.html)

[Raebus]

ReloadPsi's image does count as proof, mind. The resemblance is uncanny!

[Takara]

Tattoos aren't hereditary.

Besides, we all know that Master NORG evolved into Ultimecia. I mean, come on, they're both ugly and they both have a speech impediment. IT ALL MAKES SENSE!!! :o :o :o

[pyrefly maiden]

Adel has tattoos on her face too, only not so prominent since she has some kind of mask around her face.

:O Maybe Ulti used Time Kompression and produced Zell with Adel! (since Adel looks like a man and they're Sorceresses afterall).

[NeoCracker]

Se wait/ Mike Tyson = Zell = Ultimetica = Rinoa.

Meaining Rinoa is Mike Tyson.

So Squall's into big black men? :confused:

[Serapy]

FLAREgamer | Tetsuya Nomura's 20s (http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=81&more=1)

ctrl+f and type zell, it's right there :}

Not convincing enough for me. It's a possibility that he lied about it trying to deceive us into believing that FF8 is the most debating FF game ever.

It's more convincing if you wonder why there are only two tattoos on two characters, Zell and Ulti. Considering there are thousands of people in FF8, why only two characters that have the similar tattoos?

Thanks, actually, make it three characters because Adel has got a tattoo too but his tattoo isn't pretty much similar to Zell and Ulti's tattoos.

I still believe that Zell is blood/mentally related to Ulti.

Also, you know the GF-forgetten event, Zell seemed quiet, he never pretty much talked about it. That's suspicious.

[Aerith's Knight]

omg lol i agree with neo.. you guys are nuts.. zell is just zell.. you really think the writers that made this game in 2 years thought that deeply about this plot.. they are prob just as confused as we are.. at least most of them.. seriously.. if you think this hard about it.. you must have very little to think about

[Big D]

This would be a good time to mention my Jenova=Ultimecia 'theory', but I can't be bothered going into it right now:p

[Ouch!]

FLAREgamer | Tetsuya Nomura's 20s (http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=81&more=1)

ctrl+f and type zell, it's right there :}

Not convincing enough for me. It's a possibility that he lied about it trying to deceive us into believing that FF8 is the most debating FF game ever.
It's also a possibility that a beautiful, naked woman will jump into my arms and ask me to make passionate love to her. That doesn't mean the possibility is in any way likely or probable. Almost anything is a possibility, and if you're going to just pass off Nomura's authoritative words regarding the nature of the game, you're obviously far beyond trying to defend your own opinion with any substantial evidence to support it. Theories still have to have basis in fact; they're assumptions based on observable evidence, of which you have supplied none.

Also, FFVIII is only the most hotly debated FF game because certain people (who shall not be named) like to come up with theories with no basis in any sort of logic whatsoever.

[Rostum]

I think this belongs in the fan fiction area! :monster:

[Serapy]

FLAREgamer | Tetsuya Nomura's 20s (http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=81&more=1)

ctrl+f and type zell, it's right there :}

Not convincing enough for me. It's a possibility that he lied about it trying to deceive us into believing that FF8 is the most debating FF game ever.
It's also a possibility that a beautiful, naked woman will jump into my arms and ask me to make passionate love to her. That doesn't mean the possibility is in any way likely or probable. Almost anything is a possibility, and if you're going to just pass off Nomura's authoritative words regarding the nature of the game, you're obviously far beyond trying to defend your own opinion with any substantial evidence to support it. Theories still have to have basis in fact; they're assumptions based on observable evidence, of which you have supplied none.

Also, FFVIII is only the most hotly debated FF game because certain people (who shall not be named) like to come up with theories with no basis in any sort of logic whatsoever.

Sometimes, a few game designers lie :rolleyes2

And it's not a fan fiction! I have high feelings that they aren't based on fan ficiton because it's how I see it, some edvience are there to support my theories.

[NeoCracker]

Wait, Future Esthar Hasn't been around a while.

In his disappearance, a new theorist emerges. Could it be that Serapy = Future Esthar?!

[Serapy]

Wait, Future Esthar Hasn't been around a while.

In his disappearance, a new theorist emerges. Could it be that Serapy = Future Esthar?!

:p I have posted a few theories before his disappearance. Doesn't make a difference though since I'm the 2nd Version.

[NeoCracker]

If you truly are the second Version, then at this rate, 5 theories from now, you will theorize that Future Estar is in fact Ultimecia, and all of his R=U theorizing was simply to attempt to throw us off his track.

[Aerith's Knight]

@neo: omg it all makes sense now!! :):P

[Serapy]

Not true! :p I always was the same person before this.

I'm still the same person :D (points at FE)

[BardTard]

Since Ultimecia is from the future she could theoretically be the decendant of any of the main characters, including Zell. But I find it unlikely.

Zell's gay he would never have sex with a girl.

Maybe Ultimecia is Zell reincarnated in the future. Anybody think about that? Yeah. And the tattoos aren't really the same...

[Aerith's Knight]

Since Ultimecia is from the future she could theoretically be the decendant of any of the main characters, including Zell. But I find it unlikely.

Zell's gay he would never have sex with a girl.

Maybe Ultimecia is Zell reincarnated in the future. Anybody think about that? Yeah. And the tattoos aren't really the same...

you would start to think so, with his unnatural facination of hot dogs

[Serapy]

He always loved food, he was always hungry all the time.
This could mean he was capable of gaining powers for his whole body, making him stronger. As his blood-related, Ulti, is kind of the same because she used to be so hungry getting full powers for a Ulti being.

[BG-57]

Serapy, the most plausible theory in this thread is that you are, in fact, Future Esthar. I base this on three lines of evidence:

1) Your choice of avatar.

2) Your signature.

3) Your writing style.

And if after all you are not FE, you sure are trying hard to impersonate him. :D

[Serapy]

If you think I'm FE, then that means you are not realizing that my theories are plausible.

[BG-57]

I would agree with that.

The only FE theory I've found even partially plausible is the test pattern/world map.

[McLovin']

Time travel never ends well. If Ulti was the last boss and still wanted time compression but WASN'T in the future and just in some scary castle somewhere on the planet then there would be no theories.

[Yar]

Breakthrough!:

Ultimecia+Edea+Zell = Lite, dual eczema lei.

I think I'm onto something

[BardTard]

Breakthrough!:

Ultimecia+Edea+Zell = Lite, dual eczema lei.

I think I'm onto something

That's the smartest thing I've ever heard on here.

[Serapy]

...And the tattoos aren't really the same...

That's not the point, the point is that there has to be a reason why those three characters have the same kind of tattoos when other thousands of people in the entire game have no tattoos on thier faces (in speaking of majority).

[Christmas]

So you mean Zell and Ultimecia are the offsprings of Angelo and a random monster? :confused:

[Serapy]

But Angelo doesn't have a tattoo on it's face

[Christmas]

But I'm sure it had a sexual reproductive organ, that's what matters!

[Serapy]

But it can only hump on your legs, does that count?

[Christmas]

You know how to count?:confused: :confused:

[Serapy]

Interesting. I wanted to know whether I can count or not.

Ultimecia = has 9 letters
Zell = 4
Rinoa = 5

4 + 5 = 9

plus..

The assumption of between Zell's and Ulti's tattoos
+
R=U
= Ulti

So yeah, Angelo doesn't count, go figure. But thanks for the motivation, Christmas, the master of the Pluto king :)

[Christmas]

Angelo

Ultimecia

Random Monster

Zell

So Angelo + Random Monster = Zell & Ultimecia

See, I can count better

[ReloadPsi]

So is Zell's leg the mother?

[Serapy]

Ultimecia has 12 paintings in her castle.

So...

Zell = 4 (letters)

Rinoa = 5 (letters)

So...

4 + 5 = 9

9 + 3 (Ultimecia, Rinoa and Zell = 3) = 12.

The paintings are represented by Ulti.
Zell and Ulti are always involved in the mind of Ulti.

[ReloadPsi]

The painting on Xerampelinae is hideous. Ultimecia is hideous. It kind of adds up. Also, Xerampelinae represents the number 11, and FFXI utterly sucked. Coincidence?

[Serapy]

Of course, she was supposed to be hideous so that nobody will notice her true identify.

HFE.

[NeoCracker]

Wait, are you suggesting that somewhere down the line, Zell and Rinoa either fused together to make Ulti, or Rinoa cheated on Squall with Zell, and told Squall that the odd tats on the babies face were just a coincidence?

[Serapy]

No, Zell is either mentality or bloodline related to Ulti. There are many others that are related to Ulti anyway.

I doubt Zell cheated on him, he has no interest in Rinoa whatsoever.