Think of the smallest number greater than 0...

[Peegee]

Then divide it by two. Isn't that number smaller yet greater than zero? Now do it again. Egads it's smaller!

In fact, there isn't a smallest number greater than 0! There are infinite numbers between any two real number values [x, y]! But wait, there are infinite real numbers between any two real number values [y, z] as well! So how many real numbers are there between [x, z] ??? More than infinite? There's 'no such thing' ! Aieeee

Topic: if you have any idea what the hell I'm babbling about, can you give me some reading material or explain the significance of this?

[Sergeant Hartman]

Please, no.

[Old Manus]

I'm sure I've seen this one before somewhere...

[Peegee]

You have no idea how much math, theoretical physics, and science in general is interesting to me now that learning it is not academically significant.

To add to thread, I think the significance is that there are different 'amounts' of infinity, but what that means was never explained to me. I just perceived it as 'whoa, brain overload', or 'paradigm shift' :D

I'm sure I've seen this one before somewhere...

Shhh

[I Took the Red Pill]

I suggest reading up on Cardinality and Cantor's contributions to number theory and set theory, it could clear it up for you :count:

[Levian]

*rips off arm and slaps PG infinity times in the head*

[Chemical]

The Heart of Mathematics: An Invitation to effective thinking
Edward B. Burger & Michael Starbird


Chapter Three Infinity
3.1 What does infinity mean?
3.2 Comparing the infinite
3.3 Are Some Infinities Larger than Others?
3.4 The Power Set and the Question of an Infinite Galaxy of Infinities
3.5 Exploring the Infinite within Geometrical Objects

Related:
2.6 Irrational Side of Numbers
?? 0.9999... = 1

It's a text book I own from a course I took last year; you can borrow it.
It's all pretty basic... you know Cantor's Power Set Theorum, Proving that some infinities are larger than others, etc.

[Araciel]

I have a question for you PG: WHY?

[Peegee]

I have a question for you PG: WHY?

Why not? You should be asking your pure arts gf why she studied that, but I wouldn't ask her; it implies she shouldn't have. :D

[Araciel]

I don't question why she does many things...it only leads to more questions.

[Yamaneko]

A carriage wheel is not a carriage.

[Clawsze]

Decimals can be endless, and usually are, and you can get a number like 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000001 and it stilll is bigger than zero, there is infinity x infinity numbers, numbers never end.

[Jojee]

Dammit PG, how many times do I have to tell you, thinking is <i>bad</i> >:E

[Heath]

I love how Clawsze's post has a vertical line down it between the zeroes that, for some reason, makes me think of the Death Star trench.

[Rengori]

Dammit PG, how many times do I have to tell you, thinking is <i>bad</i> >:E

Yes, take Jojo's word for it, like <i>I</i> did.

[o_O]

To add to thread, I think the significance is that there are different 'amounts' of infinity, but what that means was never explained to me. I just perceived it as 'whoa, brain overload', or 'paradigm shift' :D

You should read up on the significance of the aleph. The alephs are used to describe the cardinality of infinite sets. Think of it like this:

The real numbers lie on a line, with infinity possible divisions, which results in an infinite number of numbers in any subset of the line. The complex numbers, however, are an infinite set of ordered pairs, or instead of an infinite set lying on a line, it's a grid of infinite size extending in two dimensions.
Take some <i>n</i> from the real numbers, and some <i>m > n</i> also from the real numbers. You now have a set <i>{ n > x > m | n, m in R }</i>. For every x, there is an infinte number of correlating values in the complex numbers C, like its own real number line.
So in effect, assume the set of all real numbers has some size <i>p</i>; its cardinality is <i>p*1</i>. By corrollary, the complex numbers have cardinality <i>p²</i>. Which set is bigger? Infinity 1 or infinity 2? Moreover, which set is bigger if you consider that both sets are infinite in size, but by definition the real numbers are a subset of the complex numbers? :p

[Fonzie]

/b/ divided by 0.

It is no longer with us. :(

[Tavrobel]

/b/ divided by 0.

It is no longer with us. :(

Actually, it would be equal to 1, Fonz.

I like Limits. Don't you?

[Fonzie]

/b/ divided by 0.

It is no longer with us. :(

Actually, it would be equal to 1, Fonz.

I like Limits. Don't you?


Okay then it must of divided by a prime number.

[Nominus Experse]

Mathematics amaze me, and yet at the same time, cause me great pain as I am abruptly reminded of how atrocious my math skills are (Math 103 FUCK YEAH!)

[Rye]

What is this, asymptotes, or something? A line (and therefore values) going on forever but never hitting 0, if the asymptote is zero? D:

[NeoCracker]

I know a bit about that whole 1 = .999......, but not the others.

[NeoTifa]

i hate my life >.<

i love math, but calculus is proof that satan exists

[Peegee]

What is this, asymptotes, or something? A line (and therefore values) going on forever but never hitting 0, if the asymptote is zero? D:

More like an arc. If it doesn't hit the x-axis there's a horizontal Asymptote.

Check out that math wolfram page. It should tell you more than I can.

[rubah]

That looks like the hard way to take a limit, to me!

[Tavrobel]

I love math, but and Calculus is proof that Satan exists people give a damn about their brains and are not afraid to use them.

Fixed.


That looks like the hard way to take a limit, to me!

Actually, it's the easy way. People don't have to bother with using it in an equation or finding the derivative of limits as /\X approaches zero. That and, limits are easy stuff. Right behind critical numbers.

[rubah]

Perpetually comparing values in a range over and over in an ever-decreasing interval doesn't sound that easy to me >:[

at least, I think that was the theory part of limits. i kinda did crossword puzzles that day.

[Proxy]

Theorem: all numbers are equal
Proof: choose arbitrary a & b, and let t = a + b. Then
a + b = t
(a + b)(a - b) = t(a - b)
a^2 - b^2 = ta - tb
a^2 - ta = b^2 - tb
a^2 - ta + (t^2)/4 = b^2 - tb + (t^2)/4
(a - t/2)^2 = (b - t/2)^2
a - t/2 = b - t/2
a = b
Therefore, all numbers are the same, and math is pointless.

[Tavrobel]

Therefore, all numbers are the same, and math is pointless.

o shiz i gets teh 0 = 1 halp me plz i thnk i did sumthin rong


Perpetually comparing values in a range over and over in an ever-decreasing interval doesn't sound that easy to me >:[

at least, I think that was the theory part of limits. i kinda did crossword puzzles that day.

I was thinking in terms of the operations and concepts required. Taking 1, and dividing it by 2 continuously until you get an infinitely smaller number is not very complicated, assuming you know what a decimal is.

Really? I was doing Sudoku on Chain Rule day. Best idea ever.

[Chemical]

the class I took was called
"Mathematics in Art"

It wasn't pre-calc and hardly practical, we mostly explored ideas that artists have used over the vast centuries.

For instance, the square root of 2 otherwise known as Phi (explored briefly and non-chalently in David Brown's The Davinci Code) was imployed by many Greek artists and then again during the Rennaisance. It was considered to be the number closest to God and perfection; though it was an irrational number and consequently unacchieavable by man kind it was still considered the scale on which beauty could be compared.

[Peegee]

I don't think my brother took that class, but now I have like 4 reasons to look forward to the next time I visit xD

[NeoTifa]

hmmmmmm phi=god eh?

well you smartys wanna tell me the deriative of tan(3theta)^10 is? ill give you my everlasting love and gratitude :D

[rubah]

10 sec²(3&Theta;)⁹ ?

[NeoTifa]

.... i hate my life ;_; was it really that simple all along? there was an example in my notes just like that only it was 2theta and he used the double angle theorem. and i know there is no triple angle theorem! *sob*

[Arc_Master_14]

.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001*10^-infinity

[Rengori]

.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001*10^-infinity

Putting it to the negative infinity power will make it larger.

[Yamaneko]

Actually this is much more like Achilles and the tortoise.

[rubah]

.... i hate my life ;_; was it really that simple all along? there was an example in my notes just like that only it was 2theta and he used the double angle theorem. and i know there is no triple angle theorem! *sob*

*shrugs*? I dunno, i saw an example with cos and it was pretty similar, barring the whole chain rule thing :p it was f(&theta;), right? xD

[NeoTifa]

i dunno due weds. ill put it down though thanks a million

[MKusanagi]

I love infinity! So many possibilities. I am finally getting motivated to love math again! Thanks a bunch!

[o_O]

Theorem: all numbers are equal
Proof: choose arbitrary a & b, and let t = a + b. Then
a + b = t
(a + b)(a - b) = t(a - b)
a^2 - b^2 = ta - tb
a^2 - ta = b^2 - tb
a^2 - ta + (t^2)/4 = b^2 - tb + (t^2)/4
(a - t/2)^2 = (b - t/2)^2
a - t/2 = b - t/2
a = b
Therefore, all numbers are the same, and math is pointless.

What if (a - t/2) or (b - t/2) is negative? :p

[yuno]

hmmmmmm phi=god eh?

well you smartys wanna tell me the deriative of tan(3theta)^10 is? ill give you my everlasting love and gratitude :D

30sec^2(3θ)tan^9(3θ)

anyway,there's this book called satan,cantor and infinity which deals with the topic of infinity and a lot more.a very good read,it clearly explains cantor's findings through infinite hotels and the like.^_^

[Discord]

1 x 10 ^ (- n) , where n is the number of decimal places - 2 I can think of. Not what you wanted, but it answer the premise.:)

[The Ceej]

I have a couple problems for you based on the concept of infinity.

1. You own a hotel with infinity rooms. There are infinity people staying at your hotel. One person comes to your hotel and needs a room. What do you do?

2. You have the same hotel with infinity rooms and infinity people are still staying there. Infinity more people come and need one room each. What do you do?

I know anyone to still be reading this thread at this point is smart enough to figure these out, but I'm going to spoiler the answers in case you're too lazy to think it through.


1. Move everybody down a room and put the new person in room 1.

2. Move everybody down to the next even room and put the new people in the odd rooms.

[Peegee]

Those problems make my head hurt for different reasons. You can't have infinite quantities. It's not a quantity.

[NeoTifa]

i hate infinity! it makes my head hurt. too many possibilities. i like intergers ina givin set. you always know a definite answer :D

[The Ceej]

I'll tell you what I hate. Imaginary numbers. You cannot take the square root of a negative number. If you must make up a number by taking the square root of a negative number, even if the end result is a real number, it is not a valid answer because imaginary numbers don't exist. My brother is a math teacher and refuses to teach imaginary numbers for many of the same reasons I deny their existence.

I also want to know how the hell we came up with negative numbers. As if you can have less than zero. I have three apples, and you take four of my apples. How many apples do I have left? That's a bogus problem. I didn't have enough apples for you to take four.

Someone once told me negative numbers were introduced with debt. But when you're in debt, you don't have a negative amount of money. You owe a positive amount of money.

So, in conclusion, negative and imaginary numbers are bull.

[Tavrobel]

i hate infinity! it makes my head hurt. too many possibilities. i like intergers ina givin set. you always know a definite answer :D

There are an infinite number of integers. Deal with it. Infinity is probably one of your best friends, because it can often be thrown out. Working with integers doesn't always guarantee an integer answer.

If for instance, say I wanted to find the Critical Points of a function given in a set interval:
f(x) = 4x³ - 6x² + 5
In the given interval [0, 10]

Those are all integers. Does that make this problem necessarily easy? Do you even know what Calculus is? Because at this point in math, the necessity of a real number as an answer as opposed to an integer is a null point.

Bonus points if anyone can figure it out. Shouldn't be terribly difficult; just Power Rule it.


I'll tell you what I hate. Imaginary numbers. You cannot take the square root of a negative number.

So, in conclusion, negative and imaginary numbers are bull.

Sure you can. What do you think i is for? What about polar coordinates? The very teaching of math is for the purpose of learning Calculus; if not, then at least Trigonometry. I'd like to see you do electricity and magnetism problems without imaginary numbers. Math may be mostly made up, but I'd like to see you do any better.

[NeoTifa]

i wil create i system in math, and it will be revolutionary and used world wide! ha! no calc involved

when we did imaginary numbers in algebra 2 i was feeling rebeleous and didnt do the hw. she asked where your hw and i said well, with imginary number you have to have imaginary paper to do your imaginary homework on. she gave me a "special test" the next day, but i still aced it :D loser your tactics fail! you taught me no lesson mwahahahahahha

[rubah]

I'll tell you what I hate. Imaginary numbers. You cannot take the square root of a negative number. If you must make up a number by taking the square root of a negative number, even if the end result is a real number, it is not a valid answer because imaginary numbers don't exist. My brother is a math teacher and refuses to teach imaginary numbers for many of the same reasons I deny their existence.

I also want to know how the hell we came up with negative numbers. As if you can have less than zero. I have three apples, and you take four of my apples. How many apples do I have left? That's a bogus problem. I didn't have enough apples for you to take four.

Someone once told me negative numbers were introduced with debt. But when you're in debt, you don't have a negative amount of money. You owe a positive amount of money.

So, in conclusion, negative and imaginary numbers are bull.

Gosh I hope you never apply for a loan or a credit card!

[Tallulah]

This is why I hate math... :mad2:

[blackmage_nuke]

I'll tell you what I hate. Imaginary numbers. You cannot take the square root of a negative number. If you must make up a number by taking the square root of a negative number, even if the end result is a real number, it is not a valid answer because imaginary numbers don't exist. My brother is a math teacher and refuses to teach imaginary numbers for many of the same reasons I deny their existence.

I also want to know how the hell we came up with negative numbers. As if you can have less than zero. I have three apples, and you take four of my apples. How many apples do I have left? That's a bogus problem. I didn't have enough apples for you to take four.

Someone once told me negative numbers were introduced with debt. But when you're in debt, you don't have a negative amount of money. You owe a positive amount of money.

So, in conclusion, negative and imaginary numbers are bull.

Ice is 0 degreees celcius
Negative numbers are useless according to you,
So liquid nitrogen is the same temperature as Ice?

[mooglebunni608]

I hate you. *brain asplodeses*

Math = bad. That's the only formula you need.

[Rengori]

I hate you. *brain asplodeses*

Math = bad. That's the only formula you need.

If a train is 4 miles away from you and is going at 120 miles per hour, how long do you have to get your ass of the train tracks?

[rubah]

I'll tell you what I hate. Imaginary numbers. You cannot take the square root of a negative number. If you must make up a number by taking the square root of a negative number, even if the end result is a real number, it is not a valid answer because imaginary numbers don't exist. My brother is a math teacher and refuses to teach imaginary numbers for many of the same reasons I deny their existence.

I also want to know how the hell we came up with negative numbers. As if you can have less than zero. I have three apples, and you take four of my apples. How many apples do I have left? That's a bogus problem. I didn't have enough apples for you to take four.

Someone once told me negative numbers were introduced with debt. But when you're in debt, you don't have a negative amount of money. You owe a positive amount of money.

So, in conclusion, negative and imaginary numbers are bull.

Ice is 0 degreees celcius
Negative numbers are useless according to you,
So liquid nitrogen is the same temperature as Ice?
He'd obviously use Kelvins

[Værn]

Putting it to the negative infinity power will make it larger.
Don't think so.
10^3=1000
10^-3=.001
Multiplying by ten to a negative exponent makes the number smaller. Therefore...
10^-infinity=0.0000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000ooooooooooooooo..........
[Infinity is really big, I don't want to type the whole thing out. Skipping a bit.]
..........ooooooooooooooo0000000000000001

[o_O]

Putting it to the negative infinity power will make it larger.
Don't think so.
10^3=1000
10^-3=.001
Multiplying by ten to a negative exponent makes the number smaller. Therefore...
10^-infinity=0.0000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000ooooooooooooooo..........
[Infinity is really big, I don't want to type the whole thing out. Skipping a bit.]
..........ooooooooooooooo0000000000000001


Or you could just call it <i>1/x^∞</i>. :p

[The Ceej]

So, in conclusion, negative and imaginary numbers are bull.

Ice is 0 degreees celcius
Negative numbers are useless according to you,
So liquid nitrogen is the same temperature as Ice?

No. The Celcius system is flawed due to its using numbers which don't exist. As blackmage_nuke so kindly put it, if it weren't for bogus numbers being made up, we'd all use Kelvin.


Gosh I hope you never apply for a loan or a credit card!

I don't have negative money. I owe positive money. There is no such thing as less than zero. It can't exist. It's impossible. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

And Tavrobel, I just spent a whole paragraph explaining how i doesn't exist and why and you turn around and tell me it does because what is it for? It makes no sense. The only reason i was invented was to solve equations which have no valid answer. Well, if you have to make up numbers which don't exist to get an answer, you have no answer. My brother, as I've previously stated, is a reputable mathematics teacher and refuses to teach imaginary numbers for many of the same reasons I refuse to acknowledge their existence.

[o_O]

And Tavrobel, I just spent a whole paragraph explaining how i doesn't exist and why and you turn around and tell me it does because what is it for? It makes no sense. The only reason i was invented was to solve equations which have no valid answer. Well, if you have to make up numbers which don't exist to get an answer, you have no answer. My brother, as I've previously stated, is a reputable mathematics teacher and refuses to teach imaginary numbers for many of the same reasons I refuse to acknowledge their existence.

Actually <i>i</i> was postulated to correct the fact that there exist equations with complex roots that aren't solvable in the real numbers. Because R is flawed and is a subset of C, C is a more complete (not more flawed) number set. I'd also like to point out that no negative number n exists such that sqrt(n) is a member of R.

I don't know what maths your brother teaches, but if he tells his students that complex or negative numbers don't exist he had better have a watertight alternative set of number theories.

[rubah]

Gosh I hope you never apply for a loan or a credit card!
I don't have negative money. I owe positive money. There is no such thing as less than zero. It can't exist. It's impossible. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

If your money owed is positive then the money you have in the bank is negative, you can't multiply one side by something and not the other :p

net=owed+owned, and if that's not a negative owed, then everyone would be a lot richer than they were. You can't use debt to pay anyone :p

[The Ceej]

I don't know what maths your brother teaches, but if he tells his students that complex or negative numbers don't exist he had better have a watertight alternative set of number theories.

I never said that. I said he doesn't teach imaginary numbers. And he refuses to teach imaginary numbers. He refuses to acknowlege imaginary numbers. And as someone who's been through the required education and works in the field, that should tell you something about imaginary numbers.


If your money owed is positive then the money you have in the bank is negative, you can't multiply one side by something and not the other

net=owed+owned, and if that's not a negative owed, then everyone would be a lot richer than they were. You can't use debt to pay anyone

I have a positive amount of money in my bank account. I owe a positive amount of money to my credit card. No negatives numbers exist there. These are two different accounts. Take something from me which I don't have. I challenge you. One you have done that, I will have a negative of what you have taken and you will have a positive due to the fact you've taken it. It can't be done.

[blackmage_nuke]

Take something from me which I don't have. I challenge you. One you have done that, I will have a negative of what you have taken and you will have a positive due to the fact you've taken it. It can't be done.
What if i gave you anti matter?

[o_O]

I never said that. I said he doesn't teach imaginary numbers. And he refuses to teach imaginary numbers. He refuses to acknowlege imaginary numbers. And as someone who's been through the required education and works in the field, that should tell you something about imaginary numbers.

Fair enough, I guess that's down to him. But as someone with a degree majoring in calculus/pure mathematics myself, I can't see how he can have gone through the system without acknowledging the validity of complex numbers. Without them, electrical engineering wouldn't exist - taking complex mathematics away from that is like taking half of a chef's ingredients away. Judging by the advancement of computers, for example, surely it does exist?

[rubah]

I don't know what maths your brother teaches, but if he tells his students that complex or negative numbers don't exist he had better have a watertight alternative set of number theories.

I never said that. I said he doesn't teach imaginary numbers. And he refuses to teach imaginary numbers. He refuses to acknowlege imaginary numbers. And as someone who's been through the required education and works in the field, that should tell you something about imaginary numbers.


If your money owed is positive then the money you have in the bank is negative, you can't multiply one side by something and not the other

net=owed+owned, and if that's not a negative owed, then everyone would be a lot richer than they were. You can't use debt to pay anyone

I have a positive amount of money in my bank account. I owe a positive amount of money to my credit card. No negatives numbers exist there. These are two different accounts. Take something from me which I don't have. I challenge you. One you have done that, I will have a negative of what you have taken and you will have a positive due to the fact you've taken it. It can't be done.

They have the same unit (money) so they can be related :p If you add what you owe to what you have, you end up having less, and the only way that happens is if what you owe is negative.

[Peegee]

Ceej is being very specific with his interpretation of numerics when he says that negation cannot exist.

Yes the amount of debt you have is measured in a positive value. Yes the amount of assets you have is measured in a positive value.

The net worth is a concept that is derived by removing one value from the other. It's taught in grade 11 accounting, and in theory, in grade 1 math.

[The Ceej]

Without them, electrical engineering wouldn't exist - taking complex mathematics away from that is like taking half of a chef's ingredients away.

Yeah, if you take the squizzleberries and xarkon beans away from the chef, he surely can't make his imaginary dish anymore. You can teach computers to use concepts that don't exist as long as these concepts have a solid set of rules to their use. My brother's original major was in engineering, so he knows how "important" imaginary numbers are. Obviously not important enough for his classes to learn them. Even if his students do plan becoming electrical engineers.


Ceej is being very specific with his interpretation of numerics when he says that negation cannot exist.

Yes the amount of debt you have is measured in a positive value. Yes the amount of assets you have is measured in a positive value.

Well, I'm glad someone is seeing my point past the idea that certain mathematics are bogus. It does help you devise a better argument against me if you know what I'm saying rather than simply shouting back trite rhetoric that old mathematics professors use over again.


The net worth is a concept that is derived by removing one value from the other. It's taught in grade 11 accounting, and in theory, in grade 1 math.


They have the same unit (money) so they can be related If you add what you owe to what you have, you end up having less, and the only way that happens is if what you owe is negative.

So, by your logic, if Wal-Mart had 18 basketballs in stock and Target had 23 basketballs on backorder, stores would have negative five baksetballs. It doesn't work that way. These are two different stores. I have two different accounts.

Now, if you'll excuse me, all this math is making my head hurt. I'm going to drop out of this conversation. Whether or not I'll be back, I don't know. We'll see.

[Tavrobel]

I never said that. I said he doesn't teach imaginary numbers. And he refuses to teach imaginary numbers. He refuses to acknowlege imaginary numbers. And as someone who's been through the required education and works in the field, that should tell you something about imaginary numbers.

Actually, it tells me more about him than it does about imaginary numbers.

I also enjoy it when people claim that math makes their head hurt. Tells me something about them, too.

[rubah]

They have the same unit (money) so they can be related If you add what you owe to what you have, you end up having less, and the only way that happens is if what you owe is negative.

So, by your logic, if Wal-Mart had 18 basketballs in stock and Target had 23 basketballs on backorder, stores would have negative five baksetballs. It doesn't work that way. These are two different stores. I have two different accounts.

Now, if you'll excuse me, all this mersation. Whether or not I'll be back, I don't know. We'll see.
walmart and target are two different units :p I didn't say your money and the money that your friend joey earned earlier

[The Ceej]

You two caught me before I closed my browser. I'll honor your statements with a response before backing out of here.




Now, if you'll excuse me, all this mersation. Whether or not I'll be back, I don't know. We'll see.
walmart and target are two different units I didn't say your money and the money that your friend joey earned earlier

First, I don't know why the hell you changed my quote there or what the hell you're trying to say with it. I looked it up. It's not a word. It can be two Wal-Marts, then. If you really want to get technical. One Wal-Mart with balls in stock and the other with balls on backorder. The point is, there is no such thing as less than zero. You cannot take from me that which I don't have. The argument has become circular, and thus, pointless. There is no reason for eithier of us to continue here. It's obvious we're not going to share our views with each other.


I also enjoy it when people claim that math makes their head hurt. Tells me something about them, too.

Yeah. Take me literally, why don't you. Math doesn't make my head hurt. I just don't really care for it. I'm starting to wonder why I got involved in a math-related argument, and I really don't want anymore of it. Knowing me, however, I'll probably torture myself by coming back even though I've said I'm done with it. Now, please, let me get out of this argument.

[Peegee]

If you have two walmarts and one doesn't have balls and one does, and one has ordered balls, you still have a positive amount of balls. Your example is not indicative of the point you are trying to make. Your point is valid, but so is Rubah's because you can make an inferential conclusion of the eventual consequence of doing actions to remove concepts from a group.

If I have 3 apples and I give you one, there's still 3 apples: 2 with me and 1 with you.

However if I have 3 apples and I give you one, I don't have 3 apples any more -- you have one.

To add fuel to this (very enjoyable) debate, let's try forward and backwards. If I take 5 steps forward and 3 steps backwards, I have travelled 8 steps, or 2?

Have fun *popcorn*

PS: Subtraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/subtraction)

[Vivisteiner]

0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001

[Quindiana Jones]

Oh my God, is this thread still going??? :eek:

[Peegee]

0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001

divided by 2? And then 2 again? and so forth ad infinitum?

[Vivisteiner]

What I dont understand is...how can you not like maths?

I mean...maths is life. So if you dont like maths you're emo.



EDIT: @PG: I dont believe you. Teeheeheee.

[Peegee]

EDIT: @PG: I dont believe you. Teeheeheee.

That's fine. Cultural relativism means that despotism is morally equvalent to pure democracy, and Moral relativism means that killing a baby is the same as running into a burning building to save the President.

[Vivisteiner]

EDIT: @PG: I dont believe you. Teeheeheee.

That's fine. Cultural relativism means that despotism is morally equvalent to pure democracy, and Moral relativism means that killing a baby is the same as running into a burning building to save the President.
Thats a given.

Why dont you try telling me something I dont know for a change?

[Peegee]

I can't tell you anything because I personally don't know anything. Interestingly since you also don't know anything, I can say anything and you wouldn't know it.

But we're talking about math, where none of this philosophical inference mumble jumble doesn't exist.

[oddler]

Let's just bring grammar into this: double negative. :choc2:

Anyway... The Ceej, yes, there are negative numbers. A number is simply a symbol used to count or to show a total. If you have 10 units of money in your bank account and you write a check from that same account for 20 of the same units of money, you have -10 units of money. It just means that you owe money. It's a representation. Physical matter is obviously different but, yes, there are negative numbers.

[rubah]

If your quote was changed, it was an accident, I'm sorry. It looks like the part between math makes my head hurt and continue this conversation got deleted :p The important part was quoted thoughxD

[o_O]

Without them, electrical engineering wouldn't exist - taking complex mathematics away from that is like taking half of a chef's ingredients away.

Yeah, if you take the squizzleberries and xarkon beans away from the chef, he surely can't make his imaginary dish anymore.

That doesn't make any sense. A chef's profession is not based or dependent upon dishes made from squizzleberries and xarkon beans or any other imaginary ingredient. Chefs don't cook imaginary dishes. If you take the imaginary stuff away, a chef can still be a chef without any impact on the quality of their work.

By the same token, electrical engineering is heavily reliant upon complex numbers. You take them away, and an electrical engineer can no longer electrically engineer.


You can teach computers to use concepts that don't exist as long as these concepts have a solid set of rules to their use. My brother's original major was in engineering, so he knows how "important" imaginary numbers are. Obviously not important enough for his classes to learn them. Even if his students do plan becoming electrical engineers.

This, I just downright don't believe.

Firstly, no, you cannot build a computer without mathematics. The theory and logic that goes into electrical physics is very complex and you can't just <i>build</i> something that works. It's not about teaching computers to do stuff, it's about designing a set of circuits that perform a task - in this case an extremely complex task such as computing.
Secondly, not all branches of mathematics involve complex maths. It is not possible to complete even one year of an electrical engineering degree without using complex maths enough to know that it is essential. It just isn't possible. If he doesn't teach them, I can only assume that he's either not teaching calculus, or that the calculus he is teaching isn't advanced enough to include complex numbers. Note that I'm not disputing the fact that he was an engineering major.