Ivalice as a whole

[EagleDelta1]

I don't know about anyone else, but I wish S-E would release a Full map of the Ivalice Region, covering all the major locations featured in the 5 main games(not including FFTA, I've heard that this one is meant to be a dream version of Ivalice). I just want to know where they all take place relative of each other. All that is known about each game is that FFXII/FFXII:RW takes place on the southern part of Valendia(Archadian Empire), Eastern Ordalia(Dalmasca, Nabradia), and Northern Kerwon(Paramina Rift, Giruvegan). This doesn't include the 2 Sky Continents(Lemures and the one Bhujerba is on) or Island(Glabados Ruins, Ridorana Cataract).
We know that FFT is set on the Continent of Ordalia, featuring the Kingdoms of Ivalice and Ordallia(come S-E be more creative with names).
FFTA takes place in the Rozarrian Empire in a place where the Continents of Ordalia and Kerwon meet, separated be a strait.
And we know that Vagrant Story is set somewhere in Valendia in the City of Lea Monde.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I want to know where these locations fit in with each other - it doesn't matter that FFT and Vagrant Story are set 1000yrs or more after the other three - continents don't change that much in 1000yrs.

[Ouch!]

There's a picture showing how FFXII's world map fits reasonably well next to that of FFT. Everything in FFXII appears to just be an extension going further east from the Ivalice seen in FFT. That seems to be the best there is now.

Also, since Matsuno has left Square Enix, I'm not so sure how much more of Ivalice you can expect to see. Does anyone else even know how it all really fits together? I imagine if that answer is no, we'll just get more ambiguity in future titles.

[Renmiri]

My Ultimania FFXII has this map on the cover

http://ffproject.net/forumwiki/images/Ivalicehuge.jpg

[Heath]

There's always the rather spiffy in-game map of Ivalice which doesn't show all of it by any means, but I thought I'd link to it anyway because I like it and it's a bit clearer than the one Renmiri just linked to.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Ivalice_%28FF12%29.jpg

[EagleDelta1]

Neither one of those are the full-size maps of Ivalice - they only cover the regions gone to in FFXII. And the makeshift map connecting FFXII's to FFT's is not possible - at the opening monologue by Marquis Ondore it show a larger map of Ivalice, but one that is still incomplete - looking at that map I can't find a place the FFT map would fit.

On another note - just because Matsuno left doesn't mean Ivalice is gone - The Ivalice Alliance was started after he left the company.

[Ouch!]

I don't mean that Matsuno's absence means we'll never see Ivalice again. I just don't believe we'll ever get any solid answers as to how the series is supposed to fit together as a whole. I expect that future Ivalice titles will make vague, insubstatial references to the other games, but I don't expect any new information that'll help us connect the series. I believe that Ivalice, as continuous world, died when Matsuno left, unless he's divulged information regarding the continuity to others.

Also, regarding the Ivalice Alliance, look at the games it has produced. FFXII:RW, FFA2, and the FFT remake. FFA2, as a sequel to advanced, can again be written off as not the real Ivalice (at least, as far as I know; I've not enough interest to actually look into it); the FFT remake is just that--a remake--and offers little new in the way of revelations about the world; FFXII:RW is the direct sequel to FFXII, and, from what I understand about the title, offers little new information that would help bridge any of the gaps. I expect future Ivalice titles to be much the same.

[EagleDelta1]

From recent interviews - FFTA2 actually does take place in the real Ivalice - that's one of the reasons they decided to put Vaan, Penelo, and Al-Cid in as playable characters. In fact, translated character and story details put the setting somewhere in the Rozarrian Empire after FFXII and RW. The devs even stated that FFTA2 is set after FFXII and that we'd see some familiar faces from FFXII.

Also, keep in mind that Matsuno wasn't the sole creator of Ivalice. Many of the staff that helped him create it is still working on the Ivalice Alliance. Finally, just because Matsuno left the company doesn't mean he won't ever work with them again.

Also, I'm not looking for historical answers or major revalations, just how the map fits together as a whole in the context of the 5 main games(again not counting FFTA).

[Bolivar]

That's right - FFTA2 takes place in the real ivalice after the events of Revenant Wings. Speaking of RW, it actually did work to connect Vaan's Eastern Ivalice with Ramza's Western one, with the Cache of Glabados near Bavaria. There's really no reason to assume that the valid connections between the games in the series will not unfold.

This is mainly because everyone else who helped Matsuno create this world seems to still be at Square-Enix, most notably Minagawa (from the original Ogre Battle). Being promoted to director, showing up at all the XII events, and speaking about Final Fantasy like he's been making them for years are all indicators that we can expect some great games from him in the future, and most obviously games set in Ivalice will be among them. The only team member who isn't officially at SE is the composer Sakimoto, as like other top JRPG composers,he works freelance. I don't see any complications, as he recently did the soundtrack for Revenant Wings.

Also, EagleDelta, FFT took place to the west of Ordalia, they're 2 separate places, as the ordalians are who ivalice went to war with in the 50 years war.

[Goldenboko]

I read this title as "Ivalice as a Whore" xD

[EagleDelta1]

that's funny

[Dragonsoul]

Gametrailers.com, look for FF Retrospective and go to the video that talks about the Ivalice games, it shows a little bit of info. So far we don't know the full answer. They say Ivalice is like the Star Wars universe.

[EagleDelta1]

That's right - FFTA2 takes place in the real ivalice after the events of Revenant Wings. Speaking of RW, it actually did work to connect Vaan's Eastern Ivalice with Ramza's Western one, with the Cache of Glabados near Bavaria. There's really no reason to assume that the valid connections between the games in the series will not unfold.

This is mainly because everyone else who helped Matsuno create this world seems to still be at Square-Enix, most notably Minagawa (from the original Ogre Battle). Being promoted to director, showing up at all the XII events, and speaking about Final Fantasy like he's been making them for years are all indicators that we can expect some great games from him in the future, and most obviously games set in Ivalice will be among them. The only team member who isn't officially at SE is the composer Sakimoto, as like other top JRPG composers,he works freelance. I don't see any complications, as he recently did the soundtrack for Revenant Wings.

Also, EagleDelta, FFT took place to the west of Ordalia, they're 2 separate places, as the ordalians are who ivalice went to war with in the 50 years war.

I'm not talking about the Kingdoms of Ordalia and Ivalice, but rather their location in the area of Ivalice. Kingdoms can sometimes have the same name as the region or continent. i.e. Britain is on the Island of Britain, Ireland is on Ireland, etc. Austrailia is another example. If you look at the translations for the maps - There is the region of Ivalice and the Kingdom of Ivalice, just as there is the Kingdom of Ordallia and the Continent of Ordalia. Dalmasca is on the eastern edge of the Continent of Ordalia, Rozarria on the western edge as well as on part of the Continent of Kerwon and Archadia is on Valendia.
Anyway, here's the pic that shows the expanded map from FFXII, including parts of Ivalice not travelled to in FFXII.http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/f/fe/Ivalice_map.jpg

If you look at the western part of the map..
Oh, I can see where the Kingdom of Ivalice might fit - if you look at the SW corner and just above the little body of water, The kingdom of Ivalice might fit there, but I still can't find where FFTA2 fits on the map - here's that pic.http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/e/e2/FFTA2_Ivalice.jpg

I was also wrong about this one - the Continent on the East is Ordalia, but the Western continent is not Kerwon, but a new one called Roaru.

Also the City of Goug is in FFTA2, so this could be in the same region as the Future Kingdom of Ivalice, but who knows. At least we get to see goug during the height of the Rozarrian Empire, in all its technological glory.

With all this considered, though, who knows what Geographical changes could've happened to Ivalice during the Cataclysm mentioned in FFT. I'd like to see a game about that event.


I would, however, like to see how the Lucavi/Scions break from the bonds that force them to serve the peoples on Ivalice in FFXII and begin possessing people by the time of FFT.

[Ouch!]

I suppose in this case it may be fair to liken Ivalice to Hyrule. In the Legend of Zelda series, there is most definitely a continuum of sorts, but the geography of Hyrule is consistently inconsistent. I believe Miyamoto has stated that since each Zelda game comes from a different part of the history, each title has an individualized vision of the world. Discrepancies regarding location and inability to perfectly place different regions together like puzzle pieces on a map become far less important with this interpretation.

[EagleDelta1]

That's true, but as far as we know each Zelda takes place hundreds, possible thousands of years in between, whereas in Ivalice FFXII, RW and FFTA2 all take place very close to each other in the timeline, to the point where actual locations and characters make important appearances or mentions. Anyway, I'm not as concerned w/ Zelda as I am with Ivalice. While there are similarities, Zelda almost Always takes place in the SAME kingdom w/ many of the SAME locations, whereas Ivalice takes place in different locations and mentions previous locations and events. While Ivalice may not be one long story, the events of each game seem to affect the entire region/world. I'm starting to wonder if Ivalice has become more of a world than a region as a new, 4th continent has been added.

Besides, I prefer continuity over just random stories in random locales. Even if it is a series of disconnected games, they are set in the same world, with consequences of the actions to each game being felt everywhere.

[McLovin']

Thanks for posting this. Clears a little up for me.

This was my original theory:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4562/ivalicecu2.jpg :-D

[EagleDelta1]

Yeah, if you look at the Larger Ivalice map from FFXII in my post above(the pic is a SS from the opening monologue by Marquis Ondore) that theory doesn't work, but FFT could be further west off that larger map somewhere as that map only shows 3 continents - Ordalia, Valendia, and Kerwon - FFTA2 shows that there is a new continent called Roaru and There's no idea where that is other than that it is across a strait from Ordalia and in within the Rozarrian Empire Borders(FFTA2 takes place in the Rozarrian Empire sometime shortly after FFXII: RW)

[gudkid]

wow... confusing... (o.X)

[BiggsWedge]

I've actually been looking into this for a while now... But it's got me kinda stuck at a point.

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7168/map1hp9.gif

This is the largest map I've found of "Ivalice" to date... As you can see, in the center, clearly the FFXII world map (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1214/map2bd2.gif) can fit in, as shown here:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1797/map3hx0.gif

From here, I've moved on to correlate the Revenant Wings map with the FFXII map as it clearly matches up specific locations, but from there I hit a roadblock...
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2448/map4oo0.gif

Why? Well, because as you can see in this Revenant Wings map, it displays the Bervenia Region a somewhat small continent - where if it were held against the large map - issues arise:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/974/map5pa8.gif

As you can see, western Bervenia has water where land ought to be...

Considering also the FFTA2 map, which I cannot seem to make heads or tails from as far as location on the large map... I can safely say that Square either has created a major discrepancy, or some serious cataclysm happened somewhere that I totally missed.

[EagleDelta1]

I have revenant wings and the map looks all screwy b/c thos white blots are clouds and the map shows a zoomed in portion of the FFXII map - you only see as far north as Nalbina(if that far) and as far south as the Paramina Rift - it's not an exact replica of the FFXII map as it shows only a portion of the FFXII map - none of the continent of Valendia(where the Archadian Empire is) is shown. Also - one of the continents on the FFTA2 map isn't shown on this "Larger" Ivalice map. Here we see Ordalia, Valendia, and Kerwon. The new continent is west of Ordalia(past where the Rozarrian Empire is show going off the west end of the) and is called Roaru. So either Ivalice is a larger region than we thought or it is the name of the world

The only games set after the "Cataclysm" explained in FFT are FFT and Vagrant Story. Square has said that FFTA2 is set shortly after FFXII:RW. They just need to release an Ultimania on all of Ivalice and not just the specific games.

[Roogle]

I hope that they have a writer or a designer keeping track of all the information used in the development of the games.

As far as I know, even with the Ultimania guides for various titles released, there is still considerable confusion as to the state of the world of Ivalice. As far as I know, the following games are included in the actual world of Ivalice: Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy Tactics A2, Final Fantasy XII, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, and Vagrant Story. Is there one that I missed?

[Bolivar]

the TA2 map looked confusing, i'll have to look into it more, or wait for the english version to see. It seems to be the only piece that doesn't fit, as the kingdom of Ivalice (FFT) could easily be just to the west of Ordalia.

But as far as I know, the only cataclysm which occured was the sinking of Murond.

[EagleDelta1]

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/f/fe/Ivalice_map.jpg



Bolivar, I think the reason that the FFTA2 map is so confusing because it shows a portion of the continent of Ordalia not shown on this(or any other) map that shows Ordalia. All that's known about FFTA2 is that it takes place in far western Ordalia(notice the far western edge of the continent is off map here) near coastal region that is very close to another continent, called Roaru - a region in Ivalice. My guess is that Ivalice is far bigger than any of us realize as the area where the Kingdom of Ivalice developes could very well be in that same off-screen area.

To note - looking at this map(which is also from FFXII) there's no way that the FFT map just "snaps" on to the end of the FFXII region(where FFXII actually takes place in)

All that being said - the FFTA2 map is still the most confusing, main because it can only be found in Japanese.

[Roogle]

But as far as I know, the only cataclysm which occured was the sinking of Murond.

Murond was not a continent or a subcontinent, right? I was under the impression from an older translation of Final Fantasy Tactics that it was only a city or a city-state, so I am not sure whether or not a catastrophe what I am assuming is a coastal city would be noticable over the course of maps spanning thousands of years.

[EagleDelta1]

I dunno - not far enough into FFT - I just remember them stating that something happened that wiped out the technology of FFXII, I just thought that was caused by the cataclysm. Either way, something wiped out most, if not all, of the races of Ivalice, other than humes.

[Big D]

So, Vagrant Story is actually centuries after FFXII? Interesting, for some reason I'd thought it was the other way around. Was that quoted in an official source, or is it just logical deduction from hints given in the game?

I quite like the lack of a complete Ivalice chronology. Makes it seem more like a huge and changing world. I mean, imagine trying to assemble a chronology of Earth's development over the course of a millennium - it just couldn't be done, because there's been too much change and too much information lost.
Plus it's interesting to see - and imagine - how religion, magic and other areas have changed over time. In FFXII, magic is commonplace - you can buy it in the streets - and palings are used to protect cities against attack. In Vagrant Story, magic is a forbidden art, condemned by the church but secretly taught to its most elite soliders. Palings still exist, but are used to keep 'the dark' from entering human settlements - perhaps 'the dark' refers to Mist, the source of natural magical ability?
There are a lot of possibilities, and I reckon it'd be better if Square-Enix didn't join all the dots for us.

[Bolivar]

But as far as I know, the only cataclysm which occured was the sinking of Murond.

Murond was not a continent or a subcontinent, right? I was under the impression from an older translation of Final Fantasy Tactics that it was only a city or a city-state, so I am not sure whether or not a catastrophe what I am assuming is a coastal city would be noticable over the course of maps spanning thousands of years.

not sure exactly, but I think I remember Murond being on an island, maybe the disaster that occured when Ajora died was it breaking off from the mainland.

That catastrophe might be the one you're referencing, EagleDelta1. Although I think the lack of airships and guns might mean that it was just ancient technology that died out, I'd have to play FFT again, maybe the two events (sinking of Murond and extinction of other races and airships) are one and the same. In any case, War of the Lions and the ultimania suggests St. Ajora got ahold of the Auracite sometime after the events of FFXII & Revenant wings. She grew up in Bervenia, and that's where Balthier/Fran/Vaan/Penelo found the Cache of Glabados. These later became the Zodiac Stones. Maybe they're what caused the catastrophe, although it seems to me like it was Deifacted Nethicite, as it seemed to repeat the events of Nabudis and sinking of the Leviathan. At the same time, Deifacted Nethicite isn't supposed to be around anymore due to a certain event in FFXII. So I don't know.

Also, Big D, I'm not sure when exactly Vagrant Story takes place, but I'm assuming it's later. Alazlam Durai, the historian from FFT, has a quote in the game, so either it's him retelling a past event, or maybe a quote that's famous in Ivalice/Valendia around that time.

[Big D]

Also, Big D, I'm not sure when exactly Vagrant Story takes place, but I'm assuming it's later. Alazlam Durai, the historian from FFT, has a quote in the game, so either it's him retelling a past event, or maybe a quote that's famous in Ivalice/Valendia around that time.Hmm, good point... but then, FFXII has passing references to Valendia, even though it's no longer a country as far as I know, and there's the 'Leamonde Entite', a dark elemental. I figured that this Entite's name was like a fragment of history, the Dark City's name being passed over time even though the city itself has long since been forgotten.

[EagleDelta1]

Actually Square has stated that FFXII is the first game Chronologically in Ivalice(I think it's in the FFXII Ultimania Omega) - we also know, from simple logic, that FFXII:RW is next followed by FFTA2(evidenced by the fact that Vaan and Penelo are full-fledged veteran Sky Pirates in FFTA2 and are still little more than pirates-in-training at the beginning of RW)
Vagrant Story is just assumed to be after FFT b/c of the quote by Alazlam Durai at the beginning of the game.

By the way Valendia is the name of the continent that the Archadian Empire is on in FFXII. I would like to know a timeline and see a world map over the ages, because even though the games aren't actually connected, it seems that actions in one game can affect things later in the timeline(you know, like in real history) & I'd like to see how the world goes from FFXII to FFT - where the tech was lost, what happened to all the races, etc.

[McLovin']

This is a timeline from the Ultimania book:



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/Ivalice-time.jpg

The timeline of Ivalice in Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy XII, provided by Square Enix's official guide book, Final Fantasy XII Ultimania Omega. Translation is as follows:

Final Fantasy XII History (brown)

* 1st Upper Box: Unknown Era - The Occuria reside in Giruvegan.
* 2nd Upper Box: Old Valendia 1 - Establishment of the Galtean Federation.
* 3rd Upper Box: Old Valendia 394 - The Galtean Federation breaks apart.
* 4th Upper Box: Old Valendia 706 - Final Fantasy XII takes place.
* 5th Upper Box: Several decades after Old Valendia 706 - Female St Ajora establishes a new religion.

Grey box: Are they the same person?

Final Fantasy Tactics History (blue)

* 1st Lower Box: Unknown Era - 12 Knights kills a demon, and rescues Ivalice.
* 2nd Lower Box: 1200 years before the Middle Ages - St Ajora establishes the Glabados religion.
* 3rd Lower Box: Unknown Era - A catastrophe befalls the civilization at this age.
* 4th Lower Box: Middle Ages - Final Fantasy Tactics takes place.


So FFT is like 1000+ years after FF12.

[Wolf Kanno]

There is also one more minor reference in Vagrant Story about Tactics. Many fans cite this as another reason why Vagrant Story is the last game chronologically. Its the description of an accessorie called Agrias' Balm if I remember correctly (lent game to friend can't double check I'm afraid) but the description for the item says the item is named in reference to the female knight in the Zodiac Brave Story.

[Renmiri]

[QUOTE=]
This is a timeline from the Ultimania book:

Wow thanks!!!

I have the book but had no idea what each box meant :p