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[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 12:25 AM
Ramza:


Edgar, that really isn't a Controdiction.

The Ramza believes that, assuming she is Citzen, her suspicions merely changed between days, and the Ramza doesn't find that suspicious.

And there aren't to many reasons for her to say something so odd if she was Mafia.

The Ramza also thinks there is less a chance that Edgar is Mafia. What Mafia would try to reduce suspicion against a Citzen?

There are reasons, but the Ramza will keep them to himself for now.

[M] Felix
01-20-2008, 12:29 AM
Quina:


Oh, well. At least the Jester isn't a threat. xD

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 12:30 AM
Ramza:



Faris;2403993']
Ramza;2403977']
for The Ramza has no control over The Ramza's awesome.

Is that why your name got stamped out of the history books and replaced with your buddy Delita's? ZING!!!!:p



Seriously though reading Edgar's defense I'm beginning to absolve my suspicions towards him, especially since a lot of it started because of the idea that him and Ingus were mafia working to get rid of suspicion from themselves and make it appear as if they were townies.

I agree with the Quina thing, of all company here he's the most likely to be a jester. I mean he DOES have a clown look about him/her/it.
History was just not ready for The Ramza.


And think about it, the Ramza is leaning towards the Cultist leader over the others.

1) The Ramza doesn't lynch based on Jester assumptions.

2) There was only one night kill. The Ramza thinks if there was a Cultist Leader, they would have recruited someone night one instead of killing. The Mafia obviously made a kill, so if there is a Cultist Leader, we also have a Vigilante of some kind or another. The Ramza thinks Ingus was a good target for a Vigilante Night 1, and if thats the case, either one of us were recruited by the Cultist Leader, or a Kill was blocked.

These are the Thoughts of The Ramza.

[M] Felix
01-20-2008, 12:33 AM
Quina:


The Mafia kill was obviously blocked because if it wasn't, either there'd have been two kills or Ingus wouldn't have been killed.

Or there are two Vampires, and that seems unlikely.


The Ramza thinks if there was a Cultist Leader, they would have recruited someone night one instead of killing.

Cults kill by lynching. They don't night kill.

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 12:38 AM
Ramza:


Ah, point Taken. The Ramza wasn't to sure of Cultist Rules. So Ignore The Ramza's post on Cult Leader.


However the possibility that the Mafia happened to Target the same person that was killed still exists.

[M] Aaron
01-20-2008, 12:42 AM
Firion


While I understand the basis of your non Cyan suspicion, new edgar, but I think we should address him.

Cyan had brought forth the rydia issue. Personally, I don't think rydia hadn't done anything wrong, they were just stupid. Look at all the previous games, there was always someone doing something odd, hypno did it, BoB did ect ect. I saw no reason as to why they would be an immediate threat. Yet Cyan, during his analysis throws in Ingus, who at the time I believed to be the townie he was. Also they brought up vivi. They made a point on how the beginning vote of vivi's was suspicious. Yet how the suspicion shouldn't be held.

If you look at the list, two confirmed townies and one "?" A mafia might want to throw in two townies and at least one mafia. It was the people who choose to believe cyan. If they picked vivi instead and got a mafia member then cyan would have support. Could vivi be a mafia member as well as the possible Cyan? Yet vivi himself hasn't done much to earn that suspicion just yet.

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-20-2008, 12:43 AM
Aeris:


Or both the mafia and the Vigilante, or whatever they are, targeted Ingus. That would still mean that only Ingus would get killed.

Also, the suspicion for Edgar I was feeling has near gone since there's been a replacement. Although, this could be a mafia trick. But, he did pick up on the Lulu thing, which I never noticed at all - but I'm still going to hold out on making any proper accusations. :)

In terms of Cyan, I do think there was decent enough reasons for suspicion of Rydia, since it was the first day - nobody really has a clue who to lynch. Well, the reasons behind being suspicious of Rydia weren't really all that great, but did we have any other half-decent suspects? Ingus, as people were voting first? He ended up being a Townie too. Who else gave us reason to maybe suspect them even slightly?

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-20-2008, 12:48 AM
Cid


I was feeling somewhat suspicious toward Lulu earlier, but my beard told me not to worry about it, I am still suspicious, and my beard is getting anxious.

Sorry new Edgar, I still have my suspicious towards you, but my beard must admit that you make some good points.

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 12:52 AM
Ramza:


Indeed, though if a Vigilante exists, and both Mafia and Vigilante target Ingus, who did the other killing/Anti faction target?

The Ramza has noticed the past two games both had multiple Anti-Town Factions. So, if we assume that it was the Cultists, then we can't assume the protection is what stopped a second kill, as both could have targeted Ingus.

If it is actually a killing faction, however, then we can probably assume that one protection worked, as it is not likely 3 night kills targeted one guy.

So as soon as a Non-Mafia, Anti-town Role is revealed, The Ramza is starting to think this line of thinking won't help the town much.

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-20-2008, 01:00 AM
Fran:


Ramza, you suspicious dog, you.

I may be giving you too much credit, but I can't believe that you are honestly so confused about so many things. I am automatically suspicious of anyone who puts up an act or gimmick so forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to have two going on (the whole "the ramza" thing and the cluelessness thing) and that makes me doubly suspicious of you!

Cults don't kill, they recruit. The game hosts said that only one of the three roles is in play. There is no role called an "insane cultist". The Mafia's kill was obviously blocked or else someone else would have died. And so on and so forth. What is with you?

If you are town, I don't think you're doing us any favors with the act of your's it's only serving to make your posts sound confused and annoying. If the whole confusion about various aspects of the game is not an act, then I'm sorry about pointing that one out. It's just that last time when people were playing dumb about a night kill, it was the Mafia trying to make people think certain things about the night time activity. If it's happened before...

A word on cults. Everyone please remember that while mafia can kill, cults can STEAL players away from us. If they grow unchecked, they can easily band together to win this game. And that's just as bad a defeat as losing to Mafia. A cult is a really intriguing idea and because it's an intruiging idea, I'm gonna say that it is actually in play. Psychotic and Qwerty would be so tricky.

[M] Aaron
01-20-2008, 01:03 AM
Firion



Aeris;2404006']

In terms of Cyan, I do think there was decent enough reasons for suspicion of Rydia, since it was the first day - nobody really has a clue who to lynch. Well, the reasons behind being suspicious of Rydia weren't really all that great, but did we have any other half-decent suspects? Ingus, as people were voting first? He ended up being a Townie too. Who else gave us reason to maybe suspect them even slightly?

Funny thing was, ingus was GB as many know. And if anyone did pay attention, he was mafia twice before. He was way too open, he had been mafia before so unless he was trying a new tactic, he'd want to survive not stick his neck out like he was. So that's why I thought he was townie. As I had stated right before, rydia wasn't doing much but making joking posts like previous ed, jojee, and DD.

ON THAT NOTE. Anyone remember jojee replacing ed last time? Oh yes, ed was a prime suspect in everyones eyes until joy replaced, lo and behold, They came out to be the mafia godfather. Just cause there is a replacement, I do advise to not get rid of suspicions.

[M] Harry - Dad's Dad
01-20-2008, 01:05 AM
Well, Quina's off my suspect list. For now.

Personally, my guess on the revealed role is Insane Cop, and it would behoove all of us to wait on a ruling of who the cops are and how sane they are.

I think Lulu's suspicion is unfounded, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's Mafia; she may have just interpreted some of Edgar's posts incorrectly in the interim between the two quotes mentioned previously.

Now then, with Quina no longer being a prime suspect of mine, and my opinion on Lulu, the current prime suspect, being readily available above, who do I suspect now? Apologies for the overuse of "suspect".

Vivi - Voted for Edge, the only person not yet to post in this thread. Mafia voting for a random known non-Mafia? Or, a sneaky plan by Vivi as a Mafia to vote for one of his fellow Mafia, who hadn't posted, just as a seemingly random vote to draw attention away from both of them?

Edge - See Vivi, but obviously no evidence as of yet. Hardly a strong suspect in my eyes, but there's always the possibility.

Cyan - As mentioned by Firion, Cyan started the voting for Rydia with a bunch of evidence that seven of us, not knowing any better, followed nigh-blindly. I was one of them, of course. Now that Rydia has turned out to be an oddly-posting Townie, Cyan's arguments look more suspicious, as Firion pointed out.

So Vivi and Cyan are the big ones for me right now. No vote as of yet, of course.

Ramza, where did you get the idea of a third killing, Anti-Town faction? So far only two nightkill sources are confirmed: the Mafia and whoever killed Ingus (possibly Vigilante). Could you explain in a bit more detail where that notion came from?

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 01:10 AM
Ramza:


The Ramza didn't read up much on the Cults, so just had something wrong, and The Ramza missed over the part that said, "One" and thought they were all in.

Also, how is The Ramza playing dumb about a night kill? All we need is 1 Vigilante, and two anti-town factions to get three kills. If that is the case, where is the third kill? Were both blocked?

And how is it so obvious the Mafia kill was blocked? If there are in fact Cultists, and there are only two kills, why was there only one?

1) The other Kill Was Blocked.
2) They targed the same guy.

Why would a Vigilante wanted to target Ingus? Because he seemed like Mafia to many.

Why would Mafia Lynch Ingus? To put blame on two other people, The Ramza for initially going against Ingus, as well as Edgar for his fight against Ingus.

Mind you option 2 is under the assumption that both The Ramza and Edgar are not on the side of the Mafia. Mind you this does not exclude us form other anti-town roles.

So tell The Ramza, why is it so obvious to you the Mafia kill was blocked?

Edit: To Irvine
The Ramza was only saying that if a thrid killing faction existed, more possobilities could happen. And when did Third mention a third, killing anti-town faction?

The Ramza said a second Killing/anti-town faction, and presented a possobility on the night activities based on whether or not that was true. And with all the roles, a definate Vigilante possobility is there, leaving it possible for a total of three killing factions.

This was all The Ramza's speculation as to why there can't be to much trust placed a person that was protected on night one.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-20-2008, 01:11 AM
Faris:


Just by a guess I'd think some of the more inactive characters are possibly the most suspicious as of now. There's quite a few people we have hardly heard from, even looking into RL, they haven't posted much in all of day one.

Perhaps we should be looking into this a bit more perhaps and try and see if we can uncover any truths.

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-20-2008, 01:22 AM
Fran:



Ramza;2404020']
Also, how is The Ramza playing dumb about a night kill? All we need is 1 Vigilante, and two anti-town factions to get three kills. If that is the case, where is the third kill? Were both blocked?

And how is it so obvious the Mafia kill was blocked? If there are in fact Cultists, and there are only two kills, why was there only one?


You just answered your own question there, buddy.

The Mafia kill was obviously blocked because the Ingus kill was not their doing. If it WAS, Ingus would have been converted into Mafia rather than dying. So if you just think about it for two seconds, you come to the conclusion that if Mafia was not responsble for the Ingus kill and since there were no other kills, then Mafia kill was blocked.

Unless Mafia and Vig/Serial Killer both targeted Ingus, in which case it's possible that the Vig/SK kill overrode the Mafia kill/conversion. That is possible, but unlikely imho.

There's also the possibility that there is no Mafia. We just might have a bunch of cultist and serial killer running around. But that's bordering on Bastard Mod mafia, and I don't think they would have made the game THAT confusing.

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 01:26 AM
Ramza:


Fran, you should read The Ramza's two possobilities. The Ramza simply gave a second possibility rather then try to make everyone believe that there was only one.


Tell The Ramza why you are convinced that the other possibility couldn't happen? The Ramza has also presented reason for why both would want to target Ingus.

Edit: Also, why is it unlikely? The Ramza recalls last game when a Serial Killer was targeted, his kill still went off. Why would the Kill of the Vigilante/Serial Killer not go off this time?

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-20-2008, 01:34 AM
Fran:



Ramza;2404032']
Tell The Ramza why you are convinced that the other possibility couldn't happen? The Ramza has also presented reason for why both would want to target Ingus.
Edit: Also, why is it unlikely? The Ramza recalls last game when a Serial Killer was targeted, his kill still went off. Why would the Kill of the Vigilante/Serial Killer not go off this time?
I'm sorry to be blunt, but I think you're doing the confusion act again. Nowhere did I say that the 2nd option (both scum targeting Ingus) was not possible. I said that I believed it was unlikely. Why is it unlikely? Because why would the Mafia target someone who is already under fire? Isn't that GOOD for Mafia? Unless they're trying to weird mind trick where they messing with us just to mess with us and do something we would never expect from Mafia.

You seem intent on getting people to believe your version of what happened during the night, and your version just doesn't make much sense to me. That's the kind of trick that Mafia did last time with the sk/mafia night 1 kill.

You seem pretty intent on ignoring certain parts of posts, ignoring facts that are obvious and clear, rambling incoherently in some of your posts, etc. You may not be Mafia, but I do not think you are a helpful townie either.

If I were to follow my gut, I would vote for you. But my gut was obviously wrong the last round and so now I'm unsure about everything. My intuition if off in regards to detecting Mafia, and I don't trust myself as much as I did the last round. I mean, I was SO SURE Ingus was Mafia. So I will hold off voting until more evidence comes to light.

[M] Harry - Dad's Dad
01-20-2008, 01:34 AM
Ramza, we only know of the existence of two nightkilling powers: the Mafia and the Vig/SK. You're implying a third nightkiller when there is no evidence to suggest that one exists. I'm just confused by your logic, which doesn't seem to be readily evident.

Another possible reason for there only being one kill could be thus:
The Mafia's kill is given to the mods by one person who represents the Mafia, possibly the Godfather. It's possible that that person was roleblocked and that a roleblock of a Godfather prevents the Mafia's kill. This is just a possibility.

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 01:39 AM
Ramza:



Irvine;2404034']Ramza, we only know of the existence of two nightkilling powers: the Mafia and the Vig/SK. You're implying a third nightkiller when there is no evidence to suggest that one exists. I'm just confused by your logic, which doesn't seem to be readily evident.

Another possible reason for there only being one kill could be thus:
The Mafia's kill is given to the mods by one person who represents the Mafia, possibly the Godfather. It's possible that that person was roleblocked and that a roleblock of a Godfather prevents the Mafia's kill. This is just a possibility.
And as you presendted one, thats what The Ramza had done.

As The Ramza said, most other MAfia Games have had 2 killing factions.
So there is a posoblity that if there are no Cultists, There is a Third killing Faction, if you count on their being a Vigilante or a Serial Killer. Though if there are only 2 killing parties, its likely Ingus was targeted by both.

All The Ramza is trying to get across is that anyone who protected someone Night one, shouldn't be too confident that they protected a potential Victim, and that there are many different possobilities exist from what was being suggested.

[M] Caprica
01-20-2008, 01:47 AM
Rinoa



Rinoa;2402893']I am of somewhat agreement and I say that at least one of the people who haven't posted yet is mafia.
I still believe this. At that point only Auron, Edge and Freya had not posted. So far Auron and Freya have only made one post each, to vote for Vivi. This was before everyone ganged up on Rydia. Edge has not made any posts.

I also think someone who voted for Rydia was mafia. Also, I don't think the whole mafia voted for the same person, because that would be risky. The people who voted for Rydia were Cyan, Ingus, Faris, Aeris, Irvine, Basch, and Edgar.

Unfortunately there is no overlap between those two groups.

Interstingly enough, once Rydia had majority, Lulu changed her vote to Ingus. Now here is my theory. The mafia didn't want to have their whole group vote for the same person since it would look risky. Once it became clear that Rydia was the one to go down, Lulu changed her vote to the second most person (Ingus) to diversify the mafia voting pattern. I think Lulu is mafia.

Also, the above evidence on how she didn't think Edgar was guilty, and then, after in my opinion little on him changed, she thought he was the prime suspect. On the other hand, this argument comes from Edgar, my previous number 1 suspect.

I have decided to give Edgar a clean slate with the new account holder.

Conclusion: I am voting for Lulu, but keeping an eye on the people I mentioned before.

<b>##Unvote: Edgar
##Vote: Lulu</b>

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-20-2008, 01:48 AM
Fran:



Ramza;2404035']
And as you presendted one, thats what The Ramza had done.



As The Ramza said, most other MAfia Games have had 2 killing factions.

So there is a posoblity that if there are no Cultists, There is a Third killing Faction, if you count on their being a Vigilante or a Serial Killer. Though if there are only 2 killing parties, its likely Ingus was targeted by both.



All The Ramza is trying to get across is that anyone who protected someone Night one, shouldn't be too confident that they protected a potential Victim, and that there are many different possobilities exist from what was being suggested.


So... you're trying to say that those who protected people during the night should not be satisfied with the job they did even though there was only one kill during the night and in all likelihood, they DID do a good job?

You're killing me.

Doctors, faithhealers, roleblockers, everyone with a protective role, I think y'all DID do a good job last night. When Psychotic told us that this was going to be a super fast paced game, I was assuming 3-4 kills a night. Yes, per night! I thought it was gonna be dangerously fast. So for us to have only 1 kill during the night, I think it means that the protective roles did a tremendous job during the night.

Ramza trying to convince everyone that this is not the case is so supicious for me. Yes, my gut was wrong last time. And I said I would wait for more information from more people, but I can't help it. I'm jumping right in.

##Vote: Ramza

Edit: Hahaha, and just when I make my post, Riona makes a post which makes perfect sense as to why Lulu is a Mafia. Damn, now I don't know what to do.

[M] Felix
01-20-2008, 01:52 AM
Quina:


Ramza is spreading misinformation exactly like the Mafia did last round and I don't like that. The Godfather last round almost won because we let this behaviour slide. I say we learn from our past mistakes.

##Vote: Ramza

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 01:52 AM
Ramza:


Um, Fran, the only one trying to convince anyone of something is you.

The Ramza is only trying give a posibility. You are the only one of us rejecting the others Idea, now why is that? The Ramza still wished so know why you don't think The Ramza's Idea on on person getting targeted by multiple people isn't a valid option?

[M] Harry - Dad's Dad
01-20-2008, 01:53 AM
*facepalm*

Ramza:

How do you get three killing factions out of this?
1) Mafia
2) Vig/SK

Cults kill by lynching, just like everyone else during the day. The Cult wins when only Cultists remain, when all Mafia and Town have been killed off. You seem to just throw in a third killing faction without providing any evidence of its existence. I'm quite confused by your claims of a third killing (we are talking nightkilling, correct?) faction.

[M] Colette
01-20-2008, 01:53 AM
Cyan:



Quina;2404000']The Mafia kill was obviously blocked because if it wasn't, either there'd have been two kills or Ingus wouldn't have been killed.

I agree. I have three theories on this.
1. The Game mods determine night actions based on what time they receive word of them. If there is a Vigilante and if she did kill Ingus AND if the Mafia also targeted Ingus then the Vigilante's action went first, thereby blocking the Mafia kill and, while killing Ingus, keeping him on our side.

2. One protective person, let's say a doctor, protected Ingus. This protection counteracted the first attempt at a kill which was probably Mafia, seeing as how the Saulus didn't become a Mafia. The second kill attempt by our Vigilante went through. I highly doubt this happened. Ingus was pretty suspicious throughout Day 1, so people with protective powers probably wouldn't have used them on Ingus. In fact, I'd argue that everyone with a protective power probably used it on themselves since it's very difficult to decide whom to protect.

3. The Mafia attempted to kill someone who has a protective power and used it on themselves OR attempted to kill someone with protective power placed over them while the Vigilante

4. The Mafia are slow and didn't attempt to make a kill. Ordinarily I'd say that this idea is pretty irrelevant, but we do have quite a few players who aren't very involved.

Scenarios 2 and 3 are the most probable, I think.

On to the question of the Insane Cop/Cultist Leader/Jester. I don't think there's going to be a Jester in this game because that's just tooooo easy. I'm thinking it's going to be the Cultist Leader or Insane Cop. That being said, if you're a Cop I strongly urge you to compare your nightly investigation to the arguments in this thread. If a person's status comes back as good, look for holes in their arguments, lies or contradictions. If a person's status comes back as bad, look for the absence of the above. All cops should immediately begin to determine whether or not they are the Insane Cop.


Firion;2404005']While I understand the basis of your non Cyan suspicion, new edgar, but I think we should address him.

Cyan had brought forth the rydia issue. Personally, I don't think rydia hadn't done anything wrong, they were just stupid. Look at all the previous games, there was always someone doing something odd, hypno did it, BoB did ect ect. I saw no reason as to why they would be an immediate threat. Yet Cyan, during his analysis throws in Ingus, who at the time I believed to be the townie he was. Also they brought up vivi. They made a point on how the beginning vote of vivi's was suspicious. Yet how the suspicion shouldn't be held.

If you look at the list, two confirmed townies and one "?" A mafia might want to throw in two townies and at least one mafia. It was the people who choose to believe cyan. If they picked vivi instead and got a mafia member then cyan would have support. Could vivi be a mafia member as well as the possible Cyan? Yet vivi himself hasn't done much to earn that suspicion just yet.
I can understand why you'd be suspicious of me because of my persecution of Rydia. However, I stand by my arguments and so did the majority of everyone else. She did behave in a way antithetical to townie-dom.

However, you are a liar. Please refer to the bold portion of your quote. You claim that I maintain Vivi is a suspicious character. I never said anything like that. My exact words on Vivi were as follows.


VIVI

I think Vivi is just employing the easiest strategy at this time. Vote for someone. That isn't suspicious, it's just what you have to do. What IS suspicious are those that are voting for Vivi and talking about how suspicious he is. What? How can you be suspicious if you haven't really done anything? Lots of people in the past have voted randomly on day 1. Hell, most people vote randomly on day 1 and a lot of people in this thread voted randomly before Ignus, Edgar and others started talking way a lot. So why is Vivi suspicious? I say s/he isn't. I say the people voting are looking for a scapegoat. This also applies to votes for Irvine and Aeris. Aeris hasn't even done anything! What's so suspicious about them? Nothing. This my suspicions for Freya, Faris, Auron and Terra.

My question is, why on earth would you lie about that? I don't think it's even possible for you to say "Cyan thought Vivi was suspicious, but that that suspicion shouldn't hold" given the actual content of my post. There is no wiggle room there. So why are you trying to tell everyone I held Vivi in suspicion when, in fact, I never did. The only people who have any need to lie are anti-Town. Welcome to my #1 suspect.

Irvine;2404018']
Cyan - As mentioned by Firion, Cyan started the voting for Rydia with a bunch of evidence that seven of us, not knowing any better, followed nigh-blindly. I was one of them, of course. Now that Rydia has turned out to be an oddly-posting Townie, Cyan's arguments look more suspicious, as Firion pointed out.

I can't help it if I'm persuasive and my arguments actually made sense. You were the ones "follow[ing] nigh-blindly". Make your own decisions! I made mine.

Right now, this is very tenuous. Firion is definitely my #1 suspect, but I don't have enough conviction to lynch 'em. Fran is also a little suspect (and way obvious in their posting style, lol.) but I have no conviction on that.

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 01:54 AM
Ramza:


Cults aren't the only other possible Faction Irvine. Werewolfs have also been used in the game.

The Ramza only thinks the possibility of another killing faction exists.

[M] Colette
01-20-2008, 01:58 AM
Cyan:


Wait, are you saying that you believe a third-killing party (aside from Mafia and Vigilante/SK) does exist or do you believe that a third killing party (aside from Mafia and Vigilante/SK) might exist, Ramza?

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 01:59 AM
Ramza:


Might. All The Ramza has said so far is that it's a possobility. The Ramza has never stated that as a fact.

It is disadvantagious for the townies to only look into one option at this point in time.

[M] Caprica
01-20-2008, 02:08 AM
Rinoa


We are all over the place right now. Can we get a vote tally?

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-20-2008, 02:09 AM
Faris:


I don't think there's been too much voting yet. Not like yesterday. >.>

Though would be nice to know the remaining time.

[M] Mom – Host
01-20-2008, 02:14 AM
Bahamut:


Votecount

Edgar(2): Lulu, Rinoa, Barret

Ramza(2): Fran, Quina

Lulu(1): Rinoa

Barret(1): Ramza

Not voting:
Aeris, Auron, Basch, Cid, Cyan, Edgar, Edge, Faris, Firion, Freya, Irvine, Mog, Terra, Vivi.

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is set for 6PM GMT on Sunday, 20th January. That's 16 hours from now.

Someone tell me if I've made a mistake with this.

EDIT: Yup! Turns out I messed up the non voters.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-20-2008, 02:15 AM
Faris:


You got voters included in the not voting list Bahamut. =P

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 02:16 AM
Ramza:



Ramza;2404013']Indeed, though if a Vigilante exists, and both Mafia and Vigilante target Ingus, who did the other killing/Anti faction target

The Ramza has noticed the past two games both had multiple Anti-Town Factions. So, if we assume that it was the Cultists, then we can't assume the protection is what stopped a second kill, as both could have targeted Ingus.

If it is actually a killing faction, however, then we can probably assume that one protection worked, as it is not likely 3 night kills targeted one guy.

So as soon as a Non-Mafia, Anti-town Role is revealed, The Ramza is starting to think this line of thinking won't help the town much.[/B]


Ramza;2404020']The Ramza didn't read up much on the Cults, so just had something wrong, and The Ramza missed over the part that said, "One" and thought they were all in.

Also, how is The Ramza playing dumb about a night kill? All we need is 1 Vigilante, and two anti-town factions to get three kills. If that is the case, where is the third kill? Were both blocked?

And how is it so obvious the Mafia kill was blocked? If there are in fact Cultists, and there are only two kills, why was there only one?

1) The other Kill Was Blocked.
2) They targed the same guy.

Why would a Vigilante wanted to target Ingus? Because he seemed like Mafia to many.

Why would Mafia Lynch Ingus? To put blame on two other people, The Ramza for initially going against Ingus, as well as Edgar for his fight against Ingus.

Mind you option 2 is under the assumption that both The Ramza and Edgar are not on the side of the Mafia. Mind you this does not exclude us form other anti-town roles.

So tell The Ramza, why is it so obvious to you the Mafia kill was blocked?

Edit: To Irvine
The Ramza was only saying that if a thrid killing faction existed, more possobilities could happen. And when did Third mention a third, killing anti-town faction?

The Ramza said a second Killing/anti-town faction, and presented a possobility on the night activities based on whether or not that was true. And with all the roles, a definate Vigilante possobility is there, leaving it possible for a total of three killing factions.

This was all The Ramza's speculation as to why there can't be to much trust placed a person that was protected on night one.


Ramza;2404035']
Irvine;2404034']Ramza, we only know of the existence of two nightkilling powers: the Mafia and the Vig/SK. You're implying a third nightkiller when there is no evidence to suggest that one exists. I'm just confused by your logic, which doesn't seem to be readily evident.

Another possible reason for there only being one kill could be thus:
The Mafia's kill is given to the mods by one person who represents the Mafia, possibly the Godfather. It's possible that that person was roleblocked and that a roleblock of a Godfather prevents the Mafia's kill. This is just a possibility.
And as you presendted one, thats what The Ramza had done.

As The Ramza said, most other MAfia Games have had 2 killing factions.
So there is a posoblity that if there are no Cultists, There is a Third killing Faction, if you count on their being a Vigilante or a Serial Killer. Though if there are only 2 killing parties, its likely Ingus was targeted by both.

All The Ramza is trying to get across is that anyone who protected someone Night one, shouldn't be too confident that they protected a potential Victim, and that there are many different possobilities exist from what was being suggested.


Ramza;2404043']Um, Fran, the only one trying to convince anyone of something is you.

The Ramza is only trying give a posibility. You are the only one of us rejecting the others Idea, now why is that? The Ramza still wished so know why you don't think The Ramza's Idea on on person getting targeted by multiple people isn't a valid option?


Ramza;2404047']Cults aren't the only other possible Faction Irvine. Werewolfs have also been used in the game.

The Ramza only thinks the possibility of another killing faction exists.

Here are all of The Ramza's Posts. The Ramza present different possobilities, and even reasons to support the chance that Both a Mafia and a Vigilante would target Ingus.

The Ramza could also give a reason the Serial Killer (If there is one) Would target Ingus.

He would target someone he wasn't really connected too, and Ingus was a good option for anyone not directly connected.

The Ramza's main point in posting this is to show that The Ramza hasn't definitely said any of this is true, and only that these are all the possibilities that The Ramza has come up with.


Fran, on the other hand, is continually shooting down The Ramza's Idea that two factions targeted the Mafia. The Ramza am still curious as to why she is doing that.

[M] Harry - Dad's Dad
01-20-2008, 02:17 AM
Yeah, there's been a lot of talk but not a lot of voting. I don't currently suspect Ramza, but I still suspect Vivi, because I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary relating to him, and for other reasons I posted earlier. Thusly, I will vote as such.

<b>##Vote: Vivi</b>

[M] Aaron
01-20-2008, 02:24 AM
Firion



Cyan;2404045']


Firion;2404005']While I understand the basis of your non Cyan suspicion, new edgar, but I think we should address him.

Cyan had brought forth the rydia issue. Personally, I don't think rydia hadn't done anything wrong, they were just stupid. Look at all the previous games, there was always someone doing something odd, hypno did it, BoB did ect ect. I saw no reason as to why they would be an immediate threat. Yet Cyan, during his analysis throws in Ingus, who at the time I believed to be the townie he was. Also they brought up vivi. They made a point on how the beginning vote of vivi's was suspicious. Yet how the suspicion shouldn't be held.

If you look at the list, two confirmed townies and one "?" A mafia might want to throw in two townies and at least one mafia. It was the people who choose to believe cyan. If they picked vivi instead and got a mafia member then cyan would have support. Could vivi be a mafia member as well as the possible Cyan? Yet vivi himself hasn't done much to earn that suspicion just yet.
I can understand why you'd be suspicious of me because of my persecution of Rydia. However, I stand by my arguments and so did the majority of everyone else. She did behave in a way antithetical to townie-dom.

However, you are a liar. Please refer to the bold portion of your quote. You claim that I maintain Vivi is a suspicious character. I never said anything like that. My exact words on Vivi were as follows.


VIVI

I think Vivi is just employing the easiest strategy at this time. Vote for someone. That isn't suspicious, it's just what you have to do. What IS suspicious are those that are voting for Vivi and talking about how suspicious he is. What? How can you be suspicious if you haven't really done anything? Lots of people in the past have voted randomly on day 1. Hell, most people vote randomly on day 1 and a lot of people in this thread voted randomly before Ignus, Edgar and others started talking way a lot. So why is Vivi suspicious? I say s/he isn't. I say the people voting are looking for a scapegoat. This also applies to votes for Irvine and Aeris. Aeris hasn't even done anything! What's so suspicious about them? Nothing. This my suspicions for Freya, Faris, Auron and Terra.

My question is, why on earth would you lie about that? I don't think it's even possible for you to say "Cyan thought Vivi was suspicious, but that that suspicion shouldn't hold" given the actual content of my post. There is no wiggle room there. So why are you trying to tell everyone I held Vivi in suspicion when, in fact, I never did. The only people who have any need to lie are anti-Town. Welcome to my #1 suspect.

Right now, this is very tenuous. Firion is definitely my #1 suspect, but I don't have enough conviction to lynch 'em. Fran is also a little suspect (and way obvious in their posting style, lol.) but I have no conviction on that.
I assumed the list was your suspicion list, that's what I meant when I said that. Also it's what I had written down as notes, so quick little blips, I should have gone back and looked at your quote but alas, laziness consumed me.

Sorry if I had messed that up. I never voted you either Cyan, I was just using what info I had at the time. Since then you've jumped off my radar. Others are presently on it but i'm waiting for more talk and more reasons before i make any more assumptions.

EDIT: cutting out part of cyans quote that i'm not addressing sorry for spamming up the thread

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-20-2008, 02:26 AM
Fran:



Ramza;2404055']
Fran, on the other hand, is continually shooting down The Ramza's Idea that two factions targeted the Mafia. The Ramza am still curious as to why she is doing that.
You. You don't make any sense!

I tried reading over all your posts and it's seriously making my brain hurt. I will admit that voting someone out based on pure annoyance alone probably isn't a good thing, but garrragh. Make sense! Why can't you make any sense?

Here is what I think about the set up.

There is a mafia team and then there is either a serial killer or vigilante. I also think that cults are a strong possibility. There are no jestors in this game. That would just be so stupid. Insane cop is also a possibility but I think Psychotic and Qwerty would be really drawn to adding something to this game that wasn't in the previous games. And the last game had naive cop, so I'm I'm thinking that cult has a slight edge over insane cop in what would appeal to the hosts to add to this game.

Now, let's say that there are three killing groups. There definitely could be, since Psychotic indicated that this would be a fast paced game. So let's say we have Mafia, Werewolves, and then either a SK or Vig.

Which one of these killing groups would have motivation to kill Ingus? Of all the options, I think Vig is our best bet. Maaaaybe SK. The liklihood of Mafia or Werewolves (or some other variation of Mafia) attacking Ingus is out there for me. Unless they're doing a manuever that I just can't even imagine. In addition to that, if we have 3 killing groups then that means that not just one, but TWO kills got blocked last night? Or all three groups attacked the same person and that person was Ingus?

I just don't buy it.

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 02:31 AM
Ramza:


First, The Ramza appologizes, the comment on Two factions was Targeting Ingus, not the Mafia. The Ramza just put that in by mistake.
And just think for a Moment. If Ingus died, there were two people connected to him. First was Edgar, for all his attacks on Ingus. Second was The Ramza, for initially voting for Ingus before switching to Barret.

That creates two suspects for the town to look into. If this is the case, however, that would mean that Edgar is not Mafia. But only if this possibility is right.

Edit: Two suspects for the town to look into, that is.

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-20-2008, 02:34 AM
Fran:


Oh my god. Are you seriously putting yourself out there to be a suspect for town? xD

You are BLOWING MY MIND. I don't know what to think anymore. My belief that you are Mafia is wavering, but my annoyance is not!

I wish some more players would chime in on the situation.

[M] Colette
01-20-2008, 02:35 AM
Cyan:



Firion;2404058']
I assumed the list was your suspicion list, that's what I meant when I said that. Also it's what I had written down as notes, so quick little blips, I should have gone back and looked at your quote but alas, laziness consumed me.

Sorry if I had messed that up. I never voted you either Cyan, I was just using what info I had at the time. Since then you've jumped off my radar. Others are presently on it but i'm waiting for more talk and more reasons before i make any more assumptions.

EDIT: cutting out part of cyans quote that i'm not addressing sorry for spamming up the thread
That ... well... yeah I guess it could be an honest mistake. COULD be. Hmm!

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 02:36 AM
Ramza:


What I'm saying is, thats why Mafia would do that is to Make me a suspect.

If The Ramza was Mafia, The Ramza wouldn't have targeted Ingus. The Ramza also would not have tried to quell the voting against Ingus either and redraw his vote from him.

[M] Caprica
01-20-2008, 02:37 AM
Rinoa


I think Ramza is not mafia, just an idiot.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-20-2008, 02:38 AM
Cid


For a moment I though that The Ramza might be a mafioso, but my beard told me that he could just be befuddled and simply miscommunicated what he was thinking. I still have my suspicions on Edgar from last round, considering he was still very suspicious, if he was guilty with the last player he is still guilty with this new player, even if the replacement is far more charismatic.

Cids beard also has some suspicion towards Lulu for... well it says for many of the same resons that other people have said. Also my epic beard has pointed out to me that Lulu and Rinoa were quick to vote on Edgar again banking on his suspicion from yesterday, it could be they still just didn't trust him, or they could have been hoping to start a bandwagon voting binge.

To Rinoa: That is not the charming sweet Rinoa I remember from FFVIII :( you sadden both me and my beard.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-20-2008, 02:38 AM
Faris:


I say we keep him...for now. The Ramza amuses me.

Besides there's some more people that are much more higher up on the chopping block I believe then The Ramza. He's still suspicious in my eyes (though everyone is) but there's some I think that need a bit more scrutinizing before we gang up on one person who's putting out a lot of theories out there.

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 02:38 AM
Ramza:


How has anything The Ramza said make The Ramza an idiot?

For pointing out posibilities?
For wondering why Fran is so resiliant to the Idea multiple people targeted Ingus?
For presenting a Reason why the MAfia would target Ingus, when Fran said she didn't know one?

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-20-2008, 02:40 AM
Fran:



Rinoa;2404064']I think Ramza is not mafia, just an idiot.
Yeah, I definitely realize that as a possibility.

But could we really get a game mod in here to regulate? To put everything aside and speak honestly, his posts really ARE making my head spin. I was trying to read his posts and then had to look away cause it was making me dizzy. All the "The Ramza" stuff makes his posts really disorienting.

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 02:42 AM
Ramza:


Then rather than blame The Ramza for things, why not just ask The Ramza what the Ramza meant?
(Translation: IF you didn't understand, why not just ask what I meant? You know, rather than claim that I was saying there was definately a third killing faction?)

[M] Mom – Host
01-20-2008, 02:45 AM
Bahamut:



Fran;2404068']
Rinoa;2404064']I think Ramza is not mafia, just an idiot.
Yeah, I definitely realize that as a possibility. Play nicely. :twak:

Ramza, people are obviously getting annoyed at "The Ramza" stuff. If you want to keep it up, then go for it, but if you get lynched for it then you have only got yourself to blame.

[M] Caprica
01-20-2008, 02:46 AM
Rinoa


Talking in the third person is a start.

Anyway, back to work. I wasn't trying to start any bandwagon, unless you mean I was trying to get people to start voting in general. I like talking things out but if we don't get some votes in then the mafia really don't have to do anything.

Also, obviously I have nothing going on with Lulu since right now I'm pushing for her to be lynched, where she had been pretty safe before.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-20-2008, 02:48 AM
Faris:


So far the most compelling evidence I have seen is against Lulu. There's been something about her posting that just irks me and makes me feel uneasy. Still a bit of a gut feeling but I'm giving my vote to her as of now unless anything new really catches my eye.

##VOTE: Lulu

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 02:48 AM
Ramza:


But The Ramza likes The Ramza? How about if the Ramza includes a regular translation in the bottom of The Ramza's posts, as The Ramza' did above?

(Translation: I keep up The Ramza while giving you these nice tranlsation sections, even though all you need to do is replace "The Ramza" with "I" or "Me" for it to make sense.)

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-20-2008, 02:56 AM
Cid


I agree that Lulu seems suspicious, she has been posting, but not much other than tossing in a vote and adding in some small postsr... I dont have much to go on, so my vote is probably going to change with future evidence but my beard says...

##Vote: Lulu

Come on Lulu prove me wrong, I actually hope I change my vote, I don't have enough on you to feel happy with my vote.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-20-2008, 03:03 AM
Faris:


Darn you Cid. You got the 300th post that I was aiming for. =P

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-20-2008, 03:09 AM
Cid


My beard wants me to tell you.. In your face...

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-20-2008, 03:13 AM
Faris:


That comment confuses and puzzles me.

[M] Felix
01-20-2008, 03:16 AM
Quina:


I think it means he wants to make out with you.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-20-2008, 03:17 AM
Faris:


If that's the case my vote might have to change....... >.>

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 03:19 AM
Ramza:


Yeah, The Ramza is the only one who gets to make out with Faris.

(Translation: Faris is hot, so you need to step away little man.)

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-20-2008, 03:19 AM
Cid


The Ramza is no match for Cids beard!

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 03:23 AM
Ramza:


The Ramza merely needs to switch Jobs

Job: Bearded One

Main Skill: Beard Skill
Support Skill: Mustache Skill
Counter: Beard Recovery
Support: Speed Grow
Move: Fly (Nothing beats an arial Beard)

[M] Felix
01-20-2008, 03:26 AM
Quina:


Alright. Wake me when this is over.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-20-2008, 03:31 AM
Cid


You as a vastly under leveled bearded he/she with a little pony tail thing are no match for a true beard aficionado.

Del Murder
01-20-2008, 03:35 AM
Cut out the spam right now, or your original accounts will suffer.

Psychotic
01-20-2008, 04:29 AM
You're still allowed to post stuff (about who the mafia are!) guys. :whimper:

[M] Mom – Host
01-20-2008, 05:33 AM
Bahamut:


Votecount

Lulu(3) Rinoa, Faris, Cid

Edgar(2) Lulu, Rinoa, Barret

Ramza(2) Fran, Quina

Barret(1) Ramza

Vivi(1) Irvine

Not voting:
Aeris, Auron, Barret, Basch, Cyan, Edgar, Edge, Firion, Freya, Mog. Terra, Vivi.

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is set for 6PM GMT on Sunday, 20th January. That's 12 and a half hours from now.

:sing:: Looooooonelyyyyyy, I'm so loooooooonelyyyyyyy, I have noboooooooodyyyyyyyyyyyyy to callllll my owwwwwwwwwn~

[M] Apollo
01-20-2008, 05:36 AM
Ramza:


Fine, The Ramza shall appease you.

The Ramza is simply waiting for Lulu to respond to the accusations. More from Barret would be nice, but Lulu's response shall be an important one in the Eyes of The Ramza.

Translation: I'm just waiting for Lulu's response, to see if she's worth switching my vote too.

[M] Gaius
01-20-2008, 05:42 AM
Edgar:


I'd also like the hear what Lulu has to say, because I'd like to hear more from her before I say that she's definite mafia.

Well Lulu I'm waiting.

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
01-20-2008, 06:36 AM
Terra:



Edgar;2404157']I'd also like the hear what Lulu has to say, because I'd like to hear more from her before I say that she's definite mafia.

Well Lulu I'm waiting.

Same. Also, where's Edge?

[M] Eizen
01-20-2008, 07:45 AM
Mog


I'd love to see what Lulu has to say.

[M] Aaron
01-20-2008, 07:59 AM
Firion


Lets see what can I find out about this lulu case?

Edgar;2403981']
Lulu- Lulu is very susipicious, as cl_out said in the last game, Mafia is the ONLY team that should have to lie, so contradictions should be what gives them up.


Lulu;2403289']Well if you manage to survive then we can turn our suspicions on to Ingus and Edgar. Though Edgar seems innocent to me.


Lulu;2403801']I'm going to lynch Edgar because at the moment he is the most suspicious. But I am open to change my vote judging by the evidence that will be provided throughout the day.
##Vote:Edgar

Well, here's a big one. At the very end of last round Lulu said I seemed the most innocent. And now, I'm the most susipicious without a reason. Am I the only one who noticed this?

A contridiction. Ok, well edgar, Ingus did die after bickering with ya. Thats a little bit of suspicion. So at the beggining that's just something someone could be believing.

Cid;2404065']
Cids beard also has some suspicion towards Lulu for... well it says for many of the same reasons that other people have said. Also my epic beard has pointed out to me that Lulu and Rinoa were quick to vote on Edgar again banking on his suspicion from yesterday, it could be they still just didn't trust him, or they could have been hoping to start a bandwagon voting binge.

A bandwagon vote creation... ok I see how that could be a bit suspicious.

Rinoa;2404038']
Interstingly enough, once Rydia had majority, Lulu changed her vote to Ingus. Now here is my theory. The mafia didn't want to have their whole group vote for the same person since it would look risky. Once it became clear that Rydia was the one to go down, Lulu changed her vote to the second most person (Ingus) to diversify the mafia voting pattern. I think Lulu is mafia.

Also, the above evidence on how she didn't think Edgar was guilty, and then, after in my opinion little on him changed, she thought he was the prime suspect. On the other hand, this argument comes from Edgar, my previous number 1 suspect.

I have decided to give Edgar a clean slate with the new account holder.

Conclusion: I am voting for Lulu, but keeping an eye on the people I mentioned before.

##Unvote: Edgar
##Vote: Lulu
A vote change has you suspicious? A vote change to another very suspicious person.... hmmm when you say your self that you'll keep your eyes open. And are changing your vote from a suspicious person to a suspicious person..........

Faris;2404073']So far the most compelling evidence I have seen is against Lulu. There's been something about her posting that just irks me and makes me feel uneasy. Still a bit of a gut feeling but I'm giving my vote to her as of now unless anything new really catches my eye.

##VOTE: Lulu
A gut feeling... nice tactic...

So your evidence is a gut feeling, a quick vote, bandwagon vote and vote change. Lulu hasn't been around and hasn't even came when you called them out. The day still has a bit of time but it seems you guys are jumping on them for inactivity. They seemed to just be one of those players that skims the thread and votes for who they think is the most suspicious at the time.

I'm sorry guys, I really don't see what evidence there is against lulu. If you guys would clarify your selfs then please do so. Now i'm not backing lulu i'm just saying, what have they really done wrong? Please give those specific reasons guys so far it seems like you are just guessing. I think we should be looking at other more actives rather than an inactive.

EDIT: Sorry I forgot about this quote...

Cid;2404079']I agree that Lulu seems suspicious, she has been posting, but not much other than tossing in a vote and adding in some small postsr... I dont have much to go on, so my vote is probably going to change with future evidence but my beard says...

##Vote: Lulu

Come on Lulu prove me wrong, I actually hope I change my vote, I don't have enough on you to feel happy with my vote.
I understand you are voting because it's the only one you deem suspicious right now.

EDIT EDIT: But you basically are band wagoning which so many look down upon.

[M] Caprica
01-20-2008, 08:09 AM
Rinoa


I am willing to entertain alternate choices, but I'm not changing anything if all you will do is defend why a person isn't suspicious, without offering someone of your own. I don't want to go back and forth and in the end have nobody to vote for.

The point is we have to vote for someone, and at this point Lulu is the most suspicious to me. It's more than the vote change. Her posts seem quick and given without much thought, like she's trying to stay active but out of the spotlight. That smells like mafia to me.

[M] Aaron
01-20-2008, 08:14 AM
Firion



Rinoa;2404190']I am willing to entertain alternate choices, but I'm not changing anything if all you will do is defend why a person isn't suspicious, without offering someone of your own.


I'm working on it miss rinoa, but if you see my post, it takes me a little time to get the things I need. I'm in the process of addressing your post right this moment but I thought i'd give you this little reply first.

EDIT: also i'm not defending. I'm just asking the town to clarify them selves on their motives. We lost a hider already, we need to be careful.

[M] Caprica
01-20-2008, 08:18 AM
Rinoa


I appreciate that reply, and this will serve as a buffer so you don't double post (I hear the mods really hate that).

[M] Aaron
01-20-2008, 09:06 AM
Firion


SUSPECTS:

Riona - A first when the day began, they hopped on Edgar even though they themselves mentioned their next suspect of doing the same thing. As it was beginning today they were hot on contributing to the possible roles.... other than that one post well and a recent one was there to address a suspicion. Otherwise we have things like...

Rinoa;2404064']I think Ramza is not mafia, just an idiot.

Fairly absent in the majority of the posting but is online.


Rinoa;2404072']
Anyway, back to work. I wasn't trying to start any bandwagon, unless you mean I was trying to get people to start voting in general. I like talking things out but if we don't get some votes in then the mafia really don't have to do anything.

I do have to agree with your urge to vote though, we can't be completely absent from votes or the mafia are having a big chance. So just for that, you're not high on my list. But you are still there.


(the) Ramza - Everyone has seen this weird third person thing. it confuses me sometimes, it makes his posts hard to read. To be honest, I really don't feel like going through and pointing out what is wrong with his posts right now. Since he has so many of them. So I will just say what is on my mind.

The fact that he did try to intervene with edgar v. ingus debate is a flag. It was getting attention to not only them but if he swings by, him as well. On his part, it was positive attention, "Oh he he was trying to mediate and settle things down, he must be a good guy" type of thing. And recently his posts were kinda all over the place and as I said, i'm too lazy, and too tired to read them again at the moment. I'll come back to this later.

Cid - Seems like another active yet not very keen on producing evidence kind of person. And they are bandwagonning a little bit with the lulu thing. That doesn't sit well.

Edgar - Was replaced but you can't just forget about what the previous one did. They did give some points but still I can't shake it, maybe it's from the prior games.

Faris - Seems keen on keeping the game active. They tried to dishearten people from going for ramza because there were more suspicious but who is that?

Faris;2404066']I say we keep him...for now. The Ramza amuses me.

Besides there's some more people that are much more higher up on the chopping block I believe then The Ramza. He's still suspicious in my eyes (though everyone is) but there's some I think that need a bit more scrutinizing before we gang up on one person who's putting out a lot of theories out there.
They say we should not go for an active person, that we should think but then goes for lulu cause of a feeling? I don't see the fluidity of those posts.

Irvine - Only refers to the role announcements. One vote for vivi, not much detail on that.

I have more but i'm tired and will come back to it in the morning.

[M] Helo
01-20-2008, 09:34 AM
Lulu:


Okay...

The suspiscions are based on two things which I'm going to round off and prove I am not mafia.

People are saying that I am mafia because I am tossing votes in which is definitely not true. I voted for Edgar because at the time he was most suspicious and therefore I saw it a reasonable to lynch him, but I blatantly said that I am going to change my vote depending on evidence did I not?
My vote for Edgar must surely be a citizens vote? For he was the most suspicious and we needed to pressure him in case he was a mafia.

It also appears that my gentle interrogation on Rydia is suspicious because I asked her about her roles and such. That is very untrue she was going to die unless some proof was held and I took it into my hands to give her a final chance, and after she provided her evidence I believed her and changed my vote to Ingus who technically could have become mafia which would surely mean that I made the correct decision.
I think I'm being very reasonable I make my decisions with care and am a brilliant team player in a way that I will change my vote if the person is found to be innocent like I did with Rydia.

And Edgar I did say you seemed innocent but after your two rivals were both townies odds started to stack against you a little bit and at the time due to our two most suspicious died we had little inclination which is why I said I will probably change my vote.

[M] Helo
01-20-2008, 09:36 AM
Lulu:


##:unvote:Edgar

Although Edgar I didn't say you were the most innocent at all during day one, I just said you didn't seem hugely suspicious.

Ramza is annoying me now and needs to start helping us and becoming a team player.

##Vote:Ramza
If Ramza says something of importance then I'll rethink this.

[M] Gaius
01-20-2008, 03:31 PM
Edgar:


Crap, I don't know if I'm gonna make it back here in time before the grand finale of this day, and my partner has been no-show since we began, so I'm going to post this now to make sure I vote this round.

Lulu, your post didn't clear my suspicions they made them more so then before, andyour vote is mafia-esce. Lets start by analyzing your "claims to truth"


People are saying that I am mafia because I am tossing votes in which is definitely not true. I voted for Edgar because at the time he was most suspicious and therefore I saw it a reasonable to lynch him, but I blatantly said that I am going to change my vote depending on evidence did I not?

Let's start with the bolded text. That reason is the most bogus thing I've ever heard. Are you saying the fact you put "subject to change based on evidence" on a post makes it less susipcious? Hell no! LOTS of people do that. If memory serves correct, both I and Ramza did that last round! Now let's move on to the italisized. When you voted there was still a reasonable amount of time left, the only real reason you'd need to vote is if you where trying to get a rush lynch, or if you where trying to get Ingus so nervous that he killed himself by trying to respond with evidence that wasn't going to be found (on the first day there is no evidence), which to me is trying to frame him. Towns never need rush lynch only mafia needs that, and the town should never be worried about framing ever. They should be looking for contradictions and posting habits.

Analsys based on that argument: Mafia.


It also appears that my gentle interrogation on Rydia is suspicious because I asked her about her roles and such. That is very untrue she was going to die unless some proof was held and I took it into my hands to give her a final chance, and after she provided her evidence I believed her and changed my vote to Ingus who technically could have become mafia which would surely mean that I made the correct decision.
I think I'm being very reasonable I make my decisions with care and am a brilliant team player in a way that I will change my vote if the person is found to be innocent like I did with Rydia.

I never found you asking about Rydia's role susipcious. Wanna know what I think? My bet is mafia doesn't know that Ingus is a saulus out of the starting gate, and no one knew how many killing party's would be involved, so you can easily assume BOTH Ingus and Rydia are confirmed citizens. So what do you do? The round is about to end and Rydia is lined up to die. You want to use this to your advantage, you switch your vote from someone you can easily assume is a citizen. So, at this time you can use it in your defense!

Analsys based on that argument: Mafia

Lets consider who you think is susipcious and your reason(s) for it.


Lulu;2404220']##:unvote:Edgar

Although Edgar I didn't say you were the most innocent at all during day one, I just said you didn't seem hugely suspicious.

Ramza is annoying me now and needs to start helping us and becoming a team player.

##Vote:Ramza
If Ramza says something of importance then I'll rethink this.

Lets start with the bolded section.


Lulu;2403289']Well if you manage to survive then we can turn our suspicions on to Ingus and Edgar. Though Edgar seems innocent to me.

Another glaring contradiction! You did say I was innocent. I even have the quote right there.

Now let's move on the the italisized portion.
Ramza has been helping. Sure he just did some spam on this page, but so did, Cid, Quina, and Faris. Why aren't you accusing them? Simple, you just need an excuse to vote for the person with the second most votes, to save your mafian hide.

Analysis of Vote: Mafia.

Overall analysis: Mafia.

## Vote: Lulu

[M] Aaron
01-20-2008, 03:42 PM
Firion


Wow edgar. That's what I was looking for. Others seemed to be band wagoning but you went out and proved your reasoning. Kudos to you. I got a few hours of sleep and I come back to 3 posts, that's depressing.

EDIT: I almost posted that on my account whoo caught myself though.

[M] Helo
01-20-2008, 03:51 PM
Lulu:



Edgar;2404290']Crap, I don't know if I'm gonna make it back here in time before the grand finale of this day, and my partner has been no-show since we began, so I'm going to post this now to make sure I vote this round.

Lulu, your post didn't clear my suspicions they made them more so then before, andyour vote is mafia-esce. Lets start by analyzing your "claims to truth"


People are saying that I am mafia because I am tossing votes in which is definitely not true. I voted for Edgar because at the time he was most suspicious and therefore I saw it a reasonable to lynch him, but I blatantly said that I am going to change my vote depending on evidence did I not?

Let's start with the bolded text. That reason is the most bogus thing I've ever heard. Are you saying the fact you put "subject to change based on evidence" on a post makes it less susipcious? Hell no! LOTS of people do that. If memory serves correct, both I and Ramza did that last round! Now let's move on to the italisized. When you voted there was still a reasonable amount of time left, the only real reason you'd need to vote is if you where trying to get a rush lynch, or if you where trying to get Ingus so nervous that he killed himself by trying to respond with evidence that wasn't going to be found (on the first day there is no evidence), which to me is trying to frame him. Towns never need rush lynch only mafia needs that, and the town should never be worried about framing ever. They should be looking for contradictions and posting habits.

Analsys based on that argument: Mafia.


It also appears that my gentle interrogation on Rydia is suspicious because I asked her about her roles and such. That is very untrue she was going to die unless some proof was held and I took it into my hands to give her a final chance, and after she provided her evidence I believed her and changed my vote to Ingus who technically could have become mafia which would surely mean that I made the correct decision.
I think I'm being very reasonable I make my decisions with care and am a brilliant team player in a way that I will change my vote if the person is found to be innocent like I did with Rydia.

I never found you asking about Rydia's role susipcious. Wanna know what I think? My bet is mafia doesn't know that Ingus is a saulus out of the starting gate, you also don't know if there's another killing party, so you can easily assume BOTH Ingus and Rydia are confirmed citizens. So what do you do? The round is about to end and Rydia is lined up to die. You want to use this to your advantage, you switch your vote from someone you can easily assume is a citizen. So, at this time you can use it in your defense!

Analsys based on that argument: Mafia

Lets consider who you think is susipcious and your reason(s) for it.


Lulu;2404220']##:unvote:Edgar

Although Edgar I didn't say you were the most innocent at all during day one, I just said you didn't seem hugely suspicious.

Ramza is annoying me now and needs to start helping us and becoming a team player.

##Vote:Ramza
If Ramza says something of importance then I'll rethink this.

Lets start with the bolded section.


Lulu;2403289']Well if you manage to survive then we can turn our suspicions on to Ingus and Edgar. Though Edgar seems innocent to me.

Another glaring contradiction! You did say I was innocent. I even have the quote right there.

Now let's move on the the italisized portion.
Ramza has been helping. Sure he just did some spam on this page, but so did, Cid, Quina, and Faris. Why aren't you accusing them? Simple, you just need an excuse to vote for the person with the second most votes, to save your mafian hide.

Analysis of Vote: Mafia.

Overall analysis: Mafia.

## Vote: Lulu


I didn't contradict myself my opinion of you changed after those two kills. I think you are mafia and when I die you are going to realise that you've made a mistake this is just like what happened when Rydia died.

There are far more suspicious things going on in town and because you think I made a contradiction (Which I didn't) you target me?

[M] Aaron
01-20-2008, 04:58 PM
Firion



Faris;2403912']
I'm holding off on suspicions yet because there's so much to take in right now. But this seems like it's going to be a very interesting day.

Faris;2403941']
Despite that I'm still withholding making any accusations till more information or theories come to light.

Faris;2404021']
Perhaps we should be looking into this a bit more perhaps and try and see if we can uncover any truths.

Faris;2404066']I say we keep him...for now. The Ramza amuses me.

Besides there's some more people that are much more higher up on the chopping block I believe then The Ramza. He's still suspicious in my eyes (though everyone is) but there's some I think that need a bit more scrutinizing before we gang up on one person who's putting out a lot of theories out there.
Constant urge of action, why are you yourself not doing any. There hasn't been many theories till recently. Most the day was spam or discussing the roles.

Faris;2404073']So far the most compelling evidence I have seen is against Lulu. There's been something about her posting that just irks me and makes me feel uneasy. Still a bit of a gut feeling but I'm giving my vote to her as of now unless anything new really catches my eye.

##VOTE: Lulu
This seems to be a bit of a contradiction. They urge that the people should think about things, that they should look at more suspicious people, but then goes with a gut feeling? I don't understand that, it seems like they were trying to get a bandwagon vote in motion. With that, the lulu vote was off and running.

I'm gonna hold off on my vote yet still but faris is interesting to me.

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-20-2008, 05:23 PM
Aeris:


Reading over Lulu's and Edgar's posts, Lulu's "contradiction" is believable. Can people'e opinions of others not change from one day to the next? I don't see how her opinion on Edgar changing from not so supicious to suspicious is all that unbelievable, or any kind of sign that someone could possibly be mafia. With a single word, anyone could become the next suspect.
I'm not saying that Lulu is definitely not Mafia, or that Edgar is Mafia for emphasising this - I'm just pointing out that a change of opinion isn't really all that suspicious.

But the rest of Edgar's post makes a lot of sense, and I can see the reasoning behind it all. :)

[M] Mom – Host
01-20-2008, 05:29 PM
Bahamut:


Votecount

Lulu(4) Rinoa, Faris, Cid, Edgar

Ramza(3) Fran, Quina, Lulu

Edgar(1) Lulu, Rinoa, Barret

Barret(1) Ramza

Vivi(1) Irvine

Not voting:
Aeris, Auron, Barret, Basch, Cyan, Edge, Firion, Freya, Mog, Terra, Vivi.

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is set for 6PM GMT on Sunday, 20th January. That's HALF AN HOUR from now. So, y'know, vote.

[M] Aaron
01-20-2008, 05:42 PM
Firion


Ah times about up. I'm gonna go with lulu. Edgar did a good job explaining themselves. I didn't see what could have been a problem with lulu but they clarified when I asked. Which I appreciate. So I can't say more than they have already.

SOOO

##Vote: Lulu

[M] Harry - Dad's Dad
01-20-2008, 05:48 PM
Edgar"] Lulu"]Although Edgar I didn't say you were the most innocent at all during day one, I just said you didn't seem hugely suspicious.

Lulu"]Well if you manage to survive then we can turn our suspicions on to Ingus and Edgar. Though Edgar seems innocent to me.

Another glaring contradiction! You did say I was innocent. I even have the quote right there.

Let's consider for a moment the difference between "most innocent out of a selected population" and "completely innocent". What I'm getting from Lulu's comments there is that she did not suspect you, Edgar, as many of us did, but no one can really be the "most innocent" on Day One, when no one has any real information and everyone's as suspicious as they are innocent. I don't think that Lulu is suspicious, and I can't see her being voted off helping anyone. Thus, I am voting for Ramza partly as a blocking vote, partly because of the confusing nature of his posts which are, as mentioned before, suspicious.

Now this will raise suspicion on me; well, that's the price I pay for trying to protect the innocent and misunderstood.

I still think of Vivi as the suspicious type, but he's been missing for a lot of the day so no one else holds any suspicions. That's what happens: the more you say, the more suspicious you are.

<b>##Unvote: Vivi
##Vote: Ramza</b>

Edit: Bah, Firion got in there before me. I tried, Lulu. Now we see what happens, I guess.

[M] Dave – Stepdad
01-20-2008, 05:48 PM
Barret:


Was the last Mafia game this wordy? I'm genuinely having problems keeping track of who's saying what since I only look on a couple of times a day and there's like thirty+ or so massive posts every time.

[M] Caprica
01-20-2008, 05:50 PM
Rinoa


Guys, I'm sorry if there is no clear cut favorite right now, but you have to vote. There is literally 10 minutes left. Hell, the people who haven't voted could easily form a majority and totally blow this day out of the water.

Lulu's posts since the accusations seem more like a mafia trying to save their skin than anything else, so I'm not going to change right now.

Barret: It does seem the more games we do the wordier it becomes. Once the weekdays roll around I don't know how I'm gonna keep up. Also, VOTE.

EDIT: Sorry Barret, I did not see that you had voted for Edgar.

[M] Mom – Host
01-20-2008, 05:51 PM
Bahamut:


Votecount

Lulu(5) Rinoa, Faris, Cid, Edgar, Firion

Ramza(4) Fran, Quina, Lulu, Irvine

Edgar(1) Lulu, Rinoa, Barret

Barret(1) Ramza

Vivi(0) Irvine

Not voting:
Aeris, Auron, Basch, Cyan, Edge, Freya, Mog, Terra, Vivi

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is set for 6PM GMT on Sunday, 20th January. NINE. MINUTES. TO MIIIIIIIIDNIGHT. Well, not midnight but you catch my drift, townies. And there's an awful lot of filthy non-voters!

[M] Caprica
01-20-2008, 05:54 PM
Rinoa


Firion is listed as not voted. Also Lulu has voted twice.

People on the not voted list: I'm gunning for you next round. Voting for a citizen is bad, but not voting is MUCH worse. It gives you no information for discussion and does not move the game along at all.

[M] Mom – Host
01-20-2008, 06:03 PM
Bahamut:


Thanks, Rinoa.

Votecount

Lulu(5) Rinoa, Faris, Cid, Edgar, Firion

Ramza(4) Fran, Quina, Lulu, Irvine

Edgar(1) Lulu, Rinoa, Barret

Barret(1) Ramza

Vivi(0) Irvine

Not voting (Look out for Bahamut's Mega Flare):
Aeris, Auron, Basch, Cyan, Edge, Freya, Mog, Terra, Vivi

So there Lulu was, right, sitting around playing with her plushies (that somehow doubled up as possessed demon dolls from hell) and minding her business. She had just learned the ever-so-handy Firaga spell. Now she could use that "Want me to turn up the heat?" one-liner like she had always wanted to. But suddenly-

"BURN THE WITCH! BURN THE WITCH!" What was this? Distant shouts. Lights coming over the hillside. A lynch mob was approaching. And Lulu ran. She ran for her very life. Once they caught her, that was it. But the mob wanted blood, and it would take more than a fleeing Lulu to stop them.

She ran, she ran, and she ran. Until she came to a cliff. The mob had her trapped. Yes, dear readers, you probably know how this one will end.

"You killed Sephiroth! We always knew you were scum!" accused Rinoa.
"No! No it wasn't me! You don't understand! It was-" Poor Lulu had lost her footing. She tumbled back over the edge into the abyss, never to be seen again. And unlike Dyne, there would be no coming back.

Lulu was a Lover (Doctor), played by Demon Dude. Thanks for playing!

What is a Lover (Doctor)? It's a bad thing. It's scum. You did well in killing it. And that's all I'm going to tell you. Oh, and it has nothing to do with the "Lovers" role on the mafia flash.

NIGHT TWO BEGINS NOW. Those with night actions, kindly submit them.

[M] Mom – Host
01-21-2008, 02:10 PM
Bahamut:


Night fell upon the town. Little did the citizens know that they would awake to a bloodbath.

It began simply enough. Terra fancied herself a bit of an amateur sleuth, and so decided to wander around at night to see what some of the other townsfolk were up to. It proved to be a foolish decision.

She was hot on the trail of someone she thought to be a perp. They ducked left down an alley, and Terra followed. Dead end. How was this possible?
"Hello? Listen, I know you're down there. Come out now, scum. The game's over." A figure stepped out of the shadows and walked towards her. "Oh, it's you. Listen, I think there's some scum lurking about. We'd better be careful."
"Perhaps, dearest" the other replied. "Perhaps some of us should be more careful than others." and they plunged a knife firmly into Terra's neck. She gasped and gurgled, and fell to the ground as the figure ran.

Terra, Tracker, was stabbed on Night Two. Terra was played by Sir Lancealot.

That wasn't all. Cyan had just been to a secret "wink wink" with "you know who" about "you know what". He still felt slightly guilty about the incident with Rydia yesterday, but that wasn't going to deter him from the pursuit of justice. No, something else this night would be doing that.

That something else was riding at the head of a herd of chocobos. They wanted Cyan out of the picture for good. He would be too damaging to be kept alive.

Cyan felt the ground shake. Funny, Titan hadn't been seen in a long time. Perhaps he was coming to pay them a visit? And then he saw the dust cloud. And the bright yellow. And then he knew his time had come.

Wham.

Cyan, Mason, was trampled by a horde of chocobos on Night Two. Cyan was played by fire_of_avalon.

Irvine was beside himself. His beloved Lulu had been cruelly taken from him by those bastard townies, and he hadn't been able to stop them. Well...he'd shown them. The blood was still fresh on his hands. Oh yes, my love, I have avenged you.

He decided to get the hell out of town and lie low for a bit, perhaps to come back later and continue his campaign of murder and terror. He rode out on his motorcycle...the one Lulu had always loved. The one he'd promised to take her for a ride on sometime. Sigh...

Unfortunately for Irvine, it seems somebody was aware of his plan, and had strung some piano wire across the dark country lane at neck height. A head with a cowboy hat and a ponytail was found rolling around in a field, several hundred metres away.

For there never was a tale of more woe, than that of Juliet, and her Romeo. :whimper:

Irvine, Lover (Killer), was decapitated on night two. Irvine was played by Denmark.

Thanks for playing, you three.

[M] Mom – Host
01-21-2008, 02:12 PM
Bahamut:


Day three begins here. The deadline is set for 7.15 PM, GMT, Tuesday 22nd January. That's about 29 hours from now.

We might make an announcement about roles that are in the game later. Just want to see what qwerty says about it!

[M] Gaius
01-21-2008, 02:50 PM
Edgar:


Damn. This game just got crazy!

I don't even know how to react to all of these deaths yet. But maybe since a Lover (killer) is dead, they can't target us anymore? If so whoever did that second kill on Irvine helped us we where (and still are) dropping like flys.

Bahamut how many votes to lynch?

[M] Felix
01-21-2008, 02:54 PM
Quina:


Why are the dead people not dead?

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-21-2008, 03:01 PM
Faris:


This just got interesting. We got us a bunch o' masons running about. Well good for us.

[M] Gaius
01-21-2008, 03:57 PM
Edgar:


Alright, let's get this day rolling.

Here's some of my thoughts.

Lulu and Irvine, what is the importantance of the title Lover? Does Lover mean they where like Bonnie and Clyde and now that we got them we got them all? Maybe. In fact. Thats kinda what I'm leaning toward. That would make them almost like a Serial Killer, only two of them. But, why would I think that...

Here's my reasons why I think they're a dou of Serial Killers.
A. They killed Ingus last round. I'm sure lovers can't recruit, it would go against the name, this would mean they fit.
B. We are rid of a very dangerous pair. Lulu would protect Irvine every night, and Irvine would kill someone every night, lynching Lulu is the only real way to get rid of them. So if you voted for Lulu give yourself a pat of the back. But as you can see, if there is just two of them, this fits pretty well.

If I'm right.
There must be a mafia. We got rid of the Serial killers, and a game with a Serial Killer, has a mafia.

So the real question is. How do we find this mafia?

I've spent a little time reading last round over again.

Irvine voted for Ramza. Ramza was the second most point gaining individual. At first glance, we should immediately be susipicious of Ramza.
That would be a mistake. Irvine voted for Ramza but... (read the italisized text)


Irvine;2404354']
Edgar"] Lulu"]Although Edgar I didn't say you were the most innocent at all during day one, I just said you didn't seem hugely suspicious.
Lulu"]Well if you manage to survive then we can turn our suspicions on to Ingus and Edgar. Though Edgar seems innocent to me.
Another glaring contradiction! You did say I was innocent. I even have the quote right there.
Let's consider for a moment the difference between "most innocent out of a selected population" and "completely innocent". What I'm getting from Lulu's comments there is that she did not suspect you, Edgar, as many of us did, but no one can really be the "most innocent" on Day One, when no one has any real information and everyone's as suspicious as they are innocent. I don't think that Lulu is suspicious, and I can't see her being voted off helping anyone. Thus, I am voting for Ramza partly as a blocking vote, partly because of the confusing nature of his posts which are, as mentioned before, suspicious.
Now this will raise suspicion on me; well, that's the price I pay for trying to protect the innocent and misunderstood.
I still think of Vivi as the suspicious type, but he's been missing for a lot of the day so no one else holds any suspicions. That's what happens: the more you say, the more suspicious you are.
##Unvote: Vivi
##Vote: Ramza
Edit: Bah, Firion got in there before me. I tried, Lulu. Now we see what happens, I guess.

Now he just chose Vivi to try and redirect susipicion and try and save Lulu's skin. But that doesn't change the fact, immediately afterward he was killed during the night. I bet Vivi came back, and panicked. He saw his name listed a few times in the first round, and now again in the second, and wanted to kill someone he thought was going to vote for him. Afterward he probably pursuaded the other members to agree and Irvine was killed during the night.

So here's what I think at the moment.

Ramza: Annoying, but I'm convinced he's innocent.
Vivi: Very suspicious, he wasn't here at all yesterday, because I think he was trying to get his name taken out of the vote ballet. Irvine's death cements my susipicion.

Everyone else, I need to reread more of your posts before I post my thoughts on you.

[M] Dave – Stepdad
01-21-2008, 04:01 PM
Barret:


Right now for me it's between Fran and Quina. While in the first round they didn't vote for the eventual lynchee, they did both vote for the same person. And in the last round neither of them voted for Lulu, who was Mafia, and again both voted for the same person, who coincidentally was being voted for by both Lulu and Irvine.

Since I can only vote for one, I'll go for Fran because they seemed to me to be the most analysing one and thusly the one who would be best eliminated so they don't cause as much of a fuss;

##Vote: Fran

[M] Felix
01-21-2008, 04:18 PM
Quina:


Coincidentally indeed! Lulu and Irvine were Lovers, and not the traditional kind. I'm willing to bet they were working alone with that name.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-21-2008, 04:30 PM
Faris:


The lover tag seems to me to be a serial killer duo team. It wasn't stated they were mafia. If they were one of my theories would make so much more sense. :(

Right now I say we evaluate Cyan's posts a bit, we should look them over more thoroughly I think we can find some good evidence in there as I am sure we can conclude he wasn't lying about his thoughts. So there's no second guessing his ideas, just piecing them together to get a picture out of this whole mess.

[M] Caprica
01-21-2008, 04:49 PM
Rinoa


I agree with Faris and Quina. The Lovers appear to have been a separate killing faction, and convention would say there are only two of them. But I have no clue. Lover could be some British term for mafia for all I know. At this point my best guess is that we have the following killing factions:

Mafia - kill blocked in night 1, and I'm guessing they killed Terra night 2
Trigger Happy Vigilante (or whatever it's called, the one that must kill every night, I'm at work so I don't feel like looking it up) - Ingus night 1, Irvine night 2
Lover (Killer) - nothing night 1, Cyan night 2

The night 2 kills could have been made by any of them really, I'm just guessing here. Also the reason Irvine didn't have a night 1 kill could possibly be some stipulation put on his ability, for example his lover has to die first.

As a Mason, Cyan was a valuable town member. Her posts should be carefully looked at today.

However, my vote today will not go to anyone who voted yesterday, unless I get some REALLY good evidence against them. If you want to play, you have to vote. The people who are not voting (and not posting) are either mafia laying low, or town members who are being really unhelpful. Either way they need to go. Top of my list right now are: Edge, Freya, and Auron. But it's still early.

Don't worry, a ton of people didn't vote yesterday so that leaves a wide range of suspects.

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-21-2008, 05:06 PM
Aeris:




Sorry for not voting yesterday guys. -_-

I thought that the point of the Lovers was that if one died, the other died the next day? So, we had a Mafia kill, a Killer kill, and the other Lover died. I thought this was why we had three kills, but I could be wrong here.

Barret's observation is good, but it's a rather hasty vote. We've still got until tomorrow, so why are you voting so soon? I'm not trying to implicate him, I just don't see why anyone could vote this early on in the day.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-21-2008, 05:15 PM
Faris:



What is a Lover (Doctor)? It's a bad thing. It's scum. You did well in killing it. And that's all I'm going to tell you. Oh, and it has nothing to do with the "Lovers" role on the mafia flash.

From the looks of how Irvine died I think we assume it's not like the normal lovers role as he would of committed suicide I think. I believe one of the killing factions saw the connection between Lulu and Irvine and once we learned Lulu was a lover (part of a pair) they came to the conclusion of Irvine being the other half of the duo based on his posting and defensive posting style towards Lulu.

I agree though, Barret's vote is pretty fast, and I don't quite see the connections he points out in his evidence. Care to explain a bit more as I'm not entirely getting at your reasons.

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-21-2008, 05:31 PM
Aeris:


Ah. I guess I should read posts made by Bahamut a bit more thoroughly.

A problem I do have is the fact that Barret is voting Fran due to them analysing things. I thought that would be a good thing for the town, to have someone analysing what is being said - unless they're Mafia - but analysis is good, I'd have thought.

[M] Gaius
01-21-2008, 05:34 PM
Edgar:


Alright, my turn to post my thoughts. Rinoa, I start with you.
Rinoa:

Rinoa;2405300']I agree with Faris and Quina. The Lovers appear to have been a separate killing faction, and convention would say there are only two of them. But I have no clue. Lover could be some British term for mafia for all I know. At this point my best guess is that we have the following killing factions:
Rinoa;2405300']

Mafia - kill blocked in night 1, and I'm guessing they killed Terra night 2
Trigger Happy Vigilante (or whatever it's called, the one that must kill every night, I'm at work so I don't feel like looking it up) - Ingus night 1, Irvine night 2
Lover (Killer) - nothing night 1, Cyan night 2

The night 2 kills could have been made by any of them really, I'm just guessing here. Also the reason Irvine didn't have a night 1 kill could possibly be some stipulation put on his ability, for example his lover has to die first.

As a Mason, Cyan was a valuable town member. Her posts should be carefully looked at today.

However, my vote today will not go to anyone who voted yesterday, unless I get some REALLY good evidence against them. If you want to play, you have to vote. The people who are not voting (and not posting) are either mafia laying low, or town members who are being really unhelpful. Either way they need to go. Top of my list right now are: Edge, Freya, and Auron. But it's still early.

Don't worry, a ton of people didn't vote yesterday so that leaves a wide range of suspects.
Let’s look at the bolded section shall we?
Rinoa, your theory seems to be just spreading misinformation. Anyone need proof? Here it comes.


Bahamut;2405242']Night fell upon the town. Little did the citizens know that they would awake to a bloodbath.
Bahamut;2405242']
It began simply enough. Terra fancied herself a bit of an amateur sleuth, and so decided to wander around at night to see what some of the other townsfolk were up to. It proved to be a foolish decision.
She was hot on the trail of someone she thought to be a perp. They ducked left down an alley, and Terra followed. Dead end. How was this possible?
"Hello? Listen, I know you're down there. Come out now, scum. The game's over." A figure stepped out of the shadows and walked towards her. "Oh, it's you. Listen, I think there's some scum lurking about. We'd better be careful."
"Perhaps, dearest" the other replied. "Perhaps some of us should be more careful than others." and they plunged a knife firmly into Terra's neck. She gasped and gurgled, and fell to the ground as the figure ran.
Terra, Tracker, was stabbed on Night Two. Terra was played by Sir Lancealot.
Look familiar? This is Terra’s death scene. She was clearly using her tracking ability, and got killed while doing it. So, Terra wasn’t killed by the mafia, and there is no Trigger Happy Vigilante! I think you might be hiding mafia buddies so you just made high up in my list of suspects.
Next let me Analyze Barret.


Barret;2402733']Since this is the first day it's almost impossible to decide who should be lynched. However, I will vote Ingus simply because they seem to be trying a little bit too hard almost from the off. I can understand if they're town and want to win, but really I can't ignore such zealous analysis and speed in order to lynch
Barret;2402733']
##Vote: Ingus

Barret;2402833']
Ingus;2402828']I can't agree with that.
Barret;2402833']
Ingus;2402828']
I'd much rather see nothing with a post then something made up. Look at Barret's he said I was trying to "speed lynch" despite the fact that almost all the suspicion was against me during the beginning. Speed lynching requires you to make a lynch vote for little/crap reason, and have others go along, and fight and make things up to get someone to go along.
I never did that. I didn't even stay with a vote out at first. Barret's reason is just plain false, Cid at least has a chance to explain what he's thinking.
## Vote Barret
Either you're just in a foul mood because I voted for you, or you're purposefully trying to take the heat off of you by giving some convoluted reason why I should be suspected. My post count totals two, including this one. I made myself 100% clear on this, since I thought you were putting in too much effort which stinks of Mafia moves so early in the game to me.
My vote stands.


Barret;2403958']
Ramza;2403904']The Ramza is still suspicious of Cid though. However The Ramza's #1 suspect is still Barret, so unless you present The Ramza with good reason, He's still my vote.
Barret;2403958']
Ramza;2403904']
##Vote: Barret
How about the fact that you lack almost any evidence proving I'm a Mafia? Anyways, I don't have much reason to suspect you Ramza, beyond your own activities of attempting to point out certain people as the Mafia which is always suspect.
I do, however, still suspect Edgar in all of this. Recent events aside, I believe his previous actions, along with his voting changes and targets, suggest to me that he is working alongside the Mafia. It wouldn't surprise me if their plans are to change targets at random until they reach the one they want.
##Vote: Edgar

Barret;2404355']Was the last Mafia game this wordy? I'm genuinely having problems keeping track of who's saying what since I only look on a couple of times a day and there's like thirty+ or so massive posts every time.

Barret;2405279']Right now for me it's between Fran and Quina. While in the first round they didn't vote for the eventual lynchee, they did both vote for the same person. And in the last round neither of them voted for Lulu, who was Mafia, and again both voted for the same person, who coincidentally was being voted for by both Lulu and Irvine.
Barret;2405279']
Since I can only vote for one, I'll go for Fran because they seemed to me to be the most analysing one and thusly the one who would be best eliminated so they don't cause as much of a fuss;
##Vote: Fran
Other then vote, he’s done almost nothing! I think he may be trying to hide out, and lay low. Next look at the italicized caption (in his first post). He preaches that he can’t watch such speed voting. Then votes immediately in round 2 and 3. We found Lulu off contradictions, could we be on a potential mafian member with them again? Maybe, that’s why your on the top of my list.
My suspect lists. (From most suspicious to least)
1. Barret
2. Rinoa
3. Vivi


EDIT: WTF? My quotes won't fix, if you guys could just deal with it, I can promise the quotes will never be broken like that again (thats the last time I'll use MS Word to put down my thoughts)

[M] Caprica
01-21-2008, 05:46 PM
Rinoa


Using the death scenes as evidence for anything is not a good idea. The only thing you should take out of them is who died, and what their role is. Once we start analyzing the mod's posts is when misinformation starts getting spread. There is a possibility that someone has a role where, if investigated, kills the investigator. I forgot what it is called at the moment. So I recognize your possibility that Terra died by using her role, but that is a conclusion we should come to ourselves, and NOT by what was posted by Bahamut.

Ingus could have very well been Irvine's night 1 kill. We KNOW that it wasn't the mafia's kill, or he would have become mafia instead of dying. Under that scenario, Terra investigated the wrong person and died, the mafia killed Irvine, and Irvine killed Cyan. I would say either scenario is likely at this point. There are also other possibilities. I'm just trying to provide input here.

[M] Gaius
01-21-2008, 05:57 PM
Edgar:


Your scenario still has far more holes then mine.
Why would Irvine be called Killer if he could only kill someone if Lulu died. Better yet, how would the lovers win? By surviving with the town? Of course not, then the loves would be pro-town. Scum kills every night. If there is a Trigger Happy Vigilante, how could there only be 1 death on the first night?

[M] Caprica
01-21-2008, 06:04 PM
Rinoa


Well I did say it was just a guess. I don't want to get into an Ingus with you because that won't help anything.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-21-2008, 06:16 PM
Faris:



Edgar;2405325']So, Terra wasn’t killed by the mafia, and there is no Trigger Happy Vigilante!

There is the Over Eager Vigilante who has to kill every night. I think that's what she meant.

It is possible though that Terra was killed by tracking the wrong person (a Paranoid Gun Owner perhaps?) or it could very well be that there are 3 killing factions in the game. Though now it would become only 2 since Irvine is dead. We'll know for certain tomorrow if 2 people die in ways that suggest 2 killers.

However I'm beginning to look at Barret. Edgar's case has been right on so far I believe towards Barret and his posting styles. I'll see if I can't add to this a bit more later. My eyes are burning from reading so many posts in the last 20 minutes.

[M] Dee
01-21-2008, 06:38 PM
Auron:



Auron;2402995']I'm going to vote for Vivi. The first person to make a move was Ingus. First voter is always going to get some flak for going first. What struck me as odd was how Vivi did the same thing later. He voted for Edge just to "get this over with". It looked like a vote to get some things started but everything was already under way by then. Just a little weird to me.

Obviously, the big thing so far was the dispute between Ingus and Edgar and the way it sort of died down unnaturally. I'm sure that's going to come up in the next couple days if not later this day.

I want to bring something up, too. I think we need to make sure everyone's votes are made. I know Psychotic and qwertyxsora said that everyone has to vote but that doesn't mean that the day's not going to end when someone gets the amount of votes needed to lynch tacked to them. Having a person lynched before everybody gets some idea as to what everyone else is thinking could make it hard to determine who's what in the later days. Dogpiling on people in the past has made it harder to draw a line between those who voted for the unlucky person to get lynched.

Like I said, I was going to be super busy. Looks pretty crappy when I don't go by my own advice, though. I guess a ton of people didn't vote or were inactive yesterday, too. I'm still sticking to my picks, though. It looks like everyone has forgotten about everything I brought up early on.

Vivi is still numero uno. I understand if it was complete inactivity but he hasn't come to put any kind of input in or anything. Not saying that I did much more but at least I have some logic to go on.

The Ingus/Edgar thing is still in my head. In my way of thinking, when two people blatantly go out and have their own little spat, I tend to think one of them is mafia. Maybe that doesn't apply anymore, though. Edgar's been pretty cool and smoothed over a lot of it since he was replaced or people started sharing his account. And in the same sense, reading over yesterday's posts, now I've got a Ramza/Fran thing going on in my head.

##Vote: Vivi

[M] Mom – Host
01-21-2008, 06:49 PM
Bahamut:


A new day, and new information comes to light. A note was found stating that one of the following roles is in play.

Bomb
Prostitute
Nexus

[M] Dave – Stepdad
01-21-2008, 06:58 PM
Barret:



Faris;2405311']I agree though, Barret's vote is pretty fast, and I don't quite see the connections he points out in his evidence. Care to explain a bit more as I'm not entirely getting at your reasons.

I'm simply looking at the voting patterns. If there's one thing I've learned over the years playing this game, votes give away everything. This is especially true in such a game where people have lots of time to consider their answers and can blantantly lie without anyone picking it up (in "real-life" Mafia games I tend to be something of a human lie detector making things easier). While we don't know if the Redded people were Mafia per say, I would say their concurrent demises, one at the hands of townspeople and the other through another means, suggests they were on the same bandwagon since it wouldn't make sense for anyone but non-Mafia members to target Irvine in the night directly following it unless it's some purposeful ruse to take people off the scent.

In the first round Fran, Quina and Lulu all voted for the person lynched. In round two they all voted for the same person again. This to me suggests that they're working together. I imagine Irvine decided to vote for Ingus because everyone was jumping on him and it was an opportunity to make sure an innocent died. They couldn't all change their votes however because that's just too suspicious. Now that Lulu is dead that leaves Fran and Quina. Of the two Fran is the one that's "doing the most damage" as it were.

As an out-loud musing, I get the feeling that this game is too filled with special roles. While I can imagine the thinking behind it, it makes a game too complicated, especially if there are several different groups with their own agenda because it gives the townies a disadvantage



Edgar;2405316']Other then vote, he’s done almost nothing! I think he may be trying to hide out, and lay low. Next look at the italicized caption (in his first post). He preaches that he can’t watch such speed voting. Then votes immediately in round 2 and 3. We found Lulu off contradictions, could we be on a potential mafian member with them again? Maybe, that’s why your on the top of my list.

God your quote was a mess. Anyways, one of the reasons why I lie low and don't get involved in the mass disputes is because it's a sure-fire way to get people thinking your Mafia. I give my reasons and rebuttals to anyone who accuses me and lay low the rest of the time. Petty squabbles and over-analysing just isn't my style. I voted as quick as I did so my analysis could be right next to the voting scores so people didn't have to track back to check them (I'm assuming many would just say "o he's lying" and ignore me). I also suspect you so much it's unreal. If I had a concrete reason to vote for you right now I would, but at the moment your incessant double talk makes it nye on impossible to follow what you're saying/doing.

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-21-2008, 07:06 PM
Edge:


Day 1 Voting:

Ingus: Fran
Fran: Ingus
Ingus: Unvote Fran
Ramza: Ingus
Edgar: Ingus
Vivi: Edge
Ingus: Edgar
Cid: Edgar
Barret: Ingus
Ramza: Ingus
Edgar: Ingus
Ramza: Barret
Edgar: Barret
Edgar: Unvote Barret
Edgar: Cid
Irvine: Quina
Rydia: Ingus
Quina: Ingus
Mog: Aeris
Firion: Edgar
Auron: Vivi
Terra: Vivi
Rinoa: Unvote Ramza
Rinoa: Edgar
Faris: Irvine
Ingus: Unvote Barret
Ingus: Edgar
Basch: Ingus
Freya: Vivi
Cyan: Rydia
Ingus: Unvote Edgar
Ingus: Rydia
Faris: Unvote Irvine
Faris: Rydia
Lulu: Rydia
Aeris: Rydia
Irvine: Unvote Quina
Irvine: Rydia
Basch: Unvote Ingus
Basch: Rydia
Edgar: Unvote Cid
Edgar: Rydia
Lulu: Unvote Rydia
Lulu: Ingus

Day 2 Voting:

Ramza: Barret
Barret: Edgar
Rinoa: Unvote Edgar
Rinoa: Lulu
Fran: Ramza
Quina: Ramza
Irvine: Vivi
Faris: Lulu
Cid: Lulu
Lulu: Unvote Edgar
Lulu: Ramza
Edgar: Lulu

Voted for confirmed innocent people:
Fran
Ramza
Edgar
Barret
Rydia
Quina
Ingus
Cyan
Faris
Basch
Lulu

Voted for confirmed guilty people:
Rinoa
Faris
Cid
Edgar


Well, let me start by saying I’m a replacement. Additionally, I have no regard of what the person before me has done…or not done as it seems. But, I intend to carry out my duty now and be active. Again, please do not blame me for lagging. Whoever was my role before me was inactive and as result, did not vote. After careful analysis of the voting patterns aforementioned I’ve deduced some plausible suspicions you may want to focus on. But take note that some of my statistics are probably wrong due to the fact that I skimmed through all the tallies. This is just an easier way for people to decipher patterns or what have you without having to go through the whole thread like I did. I’ll most likely be posting these each day with updated information.

Furthermore, I posted these statistics because I want people to start coming up with an analysis for them. I’m sure someone can detect a pattern here. I can not because I still have to read all these posts, so my analysis will have to be postponed for now. Hopefully in that time we can come up with a sufficient scum to be lynched.

[M] Mom – Host
01-21-2008, 07:10 PM
Bahamut:


Please don't take the death blurbs as evidence of anything. They're just supposed to be something that makes the game a little bit more fun. "Terra died, sux2bher" isn't as exciting.
Barret;2405363']As an out-loud musing, I get the feeling that this game is too filled with special roles. While I can imagine the thinking behind it, it makes a game too complicated, especially if there are several different groups with their own agenda because it gives the townies a disadvantageIt's just an experiment, really, because a lot of people don't like Vanilla Town and refuse to play properly if that's what they get. But don't worry about the townsfolk being disadvantaged. We've tried to give all factions, be they town, mafia, or anything else a decent slice of power. We hope the game is balanced and it was something we heavily considered. Maybe it'll turn out we were wrong, and I'll be disappointed if we were, but we've definitely tried.

[M] Caprica
01-21-2008, 07:11 PM
Rinoa



Cyan;2403159']This my suspicions for Freya, Faris, Auron and Terra.

I encourage people to go back and read this post, as Cyan provides a lot of input on certain things. Cyan was a Mason, and a Mason knows who the other Masons are. For this reason I don't think any of the above people are her fellow Masons. I think this is the best piece of information to go on at this time. Please provide another if you see it.

Terra is now dead. Faris voted yesterday and hasn't raised much suspicion from me. Auron posts just to vote for Vivi, but at least he posted recently. Freya has only made one post, to vote for Vivi. She is not being helpful, and is my current number 1 suspect. It's hard to come up with a lot of evidence for this, but that's the point. If mafia never post then we will never find the evidence to lynch them. If town doesn't post then lynching them is most likely no big loss. The only way it would be a loss is if the person was a doctor trying to lay low, but even then they should at least vote.

My vote will go to Freya until she posts. Once she posts I will retract my vote if she provides a good argument.

<b>##Vote: Freya</b>

EDIT: Well there goes my theory that Edge was James Bond with Extreme Jawache.

[M] Felix
01-21-2008, 07:23 PM
Quina:


Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-21-2008, 07:38 PM
Fran:



Barret;2405363']
In the first round Fran, Quina and Lulu all voted for the person lynched.

The first time I voted, it was cause Ingus was acting way funny. I'm sure you'd recall this since YOU VOTED FOR HIM AS WELL.

The second day, I voted for Ramza cause he was pissing me off with his crazy logic and silly gimmick.


Barret;2405363']
In round two they all voted for the same person again... They couldn't all change their votes however because that's just too suspicious.
Nice. So since I kept my vote with someone who I didn't think was playing well, it makes me suspicious. If I had changed my vote, I would have been suspicious too. Damned if I do, damned if I don't eh?


Barret;2405363']
Now that Lulu is dead that leaves Fran and Quina. Of the two Fran is the one that's "doing the most damage" as it were.

You're trying to argue that I was teamed up with the Lovers, but you seem to be overlooking the fundamentals of the role. Lovers = two people. I am positive that we killed all the Lovers in this game. It was like a mini-faction. Two people, both with power roles. As long as the protective Lover was alive, the killing role was safe. Without the killing role, the protective Lover had no use. Once the Protective Lover was gone, Killing Lover was open to being killed, which he was.

If there were more than 2 lovers in the game, they would be called polygamists or something. :p Trust me, it makes sense that there are only two Lovers. Or else, if it was built like a regular Mafia group, why would they need to specify that only ONE of them can have a kill power? Makes no sense. Makes PERFECT sense if there are only two Lovers.

So, since there are only two Lovers, your attempts at connecting two more people to that group is pretty faulty.


Barret;2405363']
God your quote was a mess... [part of post omitted] I also suspect you so much it's unreal. If I had a concrete reason to vote for you right now I would, but at the moment your incessant double talk makes it nye on impossible to follow what you're saying/doing.
Ok, so I can't vote for someone based on ridiculously convoluted "makes no sense" post a la Ramza, but YOU can be suspicious of the same thing in Edgar? No. It doesn't work that way. You can't try and lynch someone for behavior that you yourself are exhibiting.

[M] Dave – Stepdad
01-21-2008, 07:57 PM
Barret:



Fran;2405438']The first time I voted, it was cause Ingus was acting way funny. I'm sure you'd recall this since YOU VOTED FOR HIM AS WELL.

But you changed your vote by the end. Vote switching is a common Mafia tactic since they have to co-ordinate their votes to be effective.


Fran;2405438'] The second day, I voted for Ramza cause he was pissing me off with his crazy logic and silly gimmick.

You voted for someone just because they were annoying you? That's the most ridiculous reason for voting for anyone in this game I've ever heard. How can you possibly expect anyone to accept such an explanation? That's an obvious lame excuse.


Fran;2405438']Nice. So since I kept my vote with someone who I didn't think was playing well, it makes me suspicious. If I had changed my vote, I would have been suspicious too. Damned if I do, damned if I don't eh?

If you had a legitimate reason for voting then you wouldn't be under suspicion right now. "Because he was annoying" just doesn't cut it in this game.


Fran;2405438']You're trying to argue that I was teamed up with the Lovers, but you seem to be overlooking the fundamentals of the role. Lovers = two people. I am positive that we killed all the Lovers in this game. It was like a mini-faction. Two people, both with power roles. As long as the protective Lover was alive, the killing role was safe. Without the killing role, the protective Lover had no use. Once the Protective Lover was gone, Killing Lover was open to being killed, which he was.

Actually the Lover role in Mafia is either a pair that win if they're both alive by the end of the game, or one where if one dies so does the other. Since Lulu died and Irvine followed, I would say that gives us the second lot. Also, just because they are lovers doesn't mean they're not still Mafia. Lovers can be both Townie and Mafia people, they just work together. They were Mafia as indicated by their red titles. Ergo, their partnership is irrelevant to the factions within this game since, as part of the Mafia, their roles would have been two-fold; To work with the Mafia and to work with each other.


Fran;2405438'] So, since there are only two Lovers, your attempts at connecting two more people to that group is pretty faulty.

See above.


Fran;2405438']Ok, so I can't vote for someone based on ridiculously convoluted "makes no sense" post a la Ramza, but YOU can be suspicious of the same thing in Edgar? No. It doesn't work that way. You can't try and lynch someone for behavior that you yourself are exhibiting.

I said the complete opposite; that Edgar's erratic behaviours meant I couldn't vote for him. He has said and done certain things in the past that make me suspicious, but his overall plan of action is all over the place. This may be a ruse, or a special role. Regardless, everytime I think there's a reason to lynch him something comes up for me to think otherwise. Hence I'm voting for the people who I believe are most likely to be Mafia based on voting patterns, which in this case is you.


Quina;2405407']Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.


See above.

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-21-2008, 08:03 PM
Edge:



Quina;2405407']Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.
I will say that after attempting to read through all of these posts and try to come up with some suspects I've found you the most suspicious so far. Irvine (a confirmed guilty person) was quick to take you off of his suspect list and defended Lulu (a confirmed guilty person):


Irvine;2404018']Well, Quina's off my suspect list. For now.

I think Lulu's suspicion is unfounded, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's Mafia; she may have just interpreted some of Edgar's posts incorrectly in the interim between the two quotes mentioned previously.

Now then, with Quina no longer being a prime suspect of mine, and my opinion on Lulu, the current prime suspect, being readily available above, who do I suspect now? Apologies for the overuse of "suspect". My thoughts on that is that it may be because you are guilty too.

Then he pointed his finger towards Cyan (a confirmed innocent person) as well as me (unconfirmed innocent person). That's why I'm thinking that those people on this list he went after are possibly innocent:

Irvine;2404018']Vivi - Voted for Edge, the only person not yet to post in this thread. Mafia voting for a random known non-Mafia? Or, a sneaky plan by Vivi as a Mafia to vote for one of his fellow Mafia, who hadn't posted, just as a seemingly random vote to draw attention away from both of them?

Edge - See Vivi, but obviously no evidence as of yet. Hardly a strong suspect in my eyes, but there's always the possibility.

Cyan - As mentioned by Firion, Cyan started the voting for Rydia with a bunch of evidence that seven of us, not knowing any better, followed nigh-blindly. I was one of them, of course. Now that Rydia has turned out to be an oddly-posting Townie, Cyan's arguments look more suspicious, as Firion pointed out.

So Vivi and Cyan are the big ones for me right now. No vote as of yet, of course.That would make Lulu and Quina Irvine's partners in crime.

[M] Gaius
01-21-2008, 08:09 PM
Edgar:


*Eyes implode*

Alright, I have a few things I'm still questioning about.

I still don't think the Lovers are part of the actual mafia faction. Everytime a mafia role is unvieled (or at least in the previous games), it said "Mafia ______". Last game there was a mafian bomb, but it was made very clear he was on the mafia side. So imo if the Lovers where part of the Mafia, it would've said Mafia Lover (Doctor).

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-21-2008, 08:29 PM
Aeris:



Barret;2405461']Actually the Lover role in Mafia is either a pair that win if they're both alive by the end of the game, or one where if one dies so does the other. Since Lulu died and Irvine followed, I would say that gives us the second lot.

I would just like to point out that only on the last page was it re-pointed out that the Lovers in this game are not the Lovers from the Mafia flash. :)

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-21-2008, 08:37 PM
Edge:


Ah, well, if Bahamut clearly specified that the lovers role had nothing to do with the flash version that would mean that the whole thing with the person committing suicide the following night after the other was lynched could be faulty. Irvine could have very well been killed by someone else. The fact that they were also killer and doctor respectively leaves me to believe that it is possible that there is more than a duo of lovers with a different role (like a Lover(Cop) or something.

Which means that they could be a group faction with more than two people. Especially since they were scum. Basically, that would mean that the other scums probably knew about them and vice versa. Lovers could be the name of the mafia in this game. Ofcourse, this all seems like such a stretch, but something seemed puzzling about the fact that Bahamut felt the need to list two roles.

[M] Felix
01-21-2008, 08:38 PM
Quina:



Edge;2405473']
Quina;2405407']Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.
I will say that after attempting to read through all of these posts and try to come up with some suspects I've found you the most suspicious so far. Irvine (a confirmed guilty person) was quick to take you off of his suspect list and defended Lulu (a confirmed guilty person):
He was also quick to ADD ME to his suspect list. If we were working together, why would he suspect me in the first place?

[M] Caprica
01-21-2008, 08:42 PM
Rinoa


I think Fran makes the best argument as to what the Lovers are. That is, a separate faction, each with a power role. The doctor is there to keep the killer alive. I think the Lovers are all gone and there is no more of that faction left. <b>Barret, Bahmut specifically said that the lovers in this game has nothing to do with the Lovers role found in the mafia flash.</b> So it is not safe to assume that if one dies the other must die. In fact, I believe the opposite. I think Irvine was someone else's night kill, and it was just coincidence that he died right after his lover died.

I think trying to connect people to Irvine and Lulu is an unwise move at this point. Barret, let's consider your thoughts that Fran is mafia. Fran is an active poster in this game. This leaves her open to more contradiction, more evidence to convict her. In short, if she is mafia she will be found out eventually. And actually, this is what I believe: <b>There is no way mafia can win this game by being very active, argumentitive posters.</b> That is why I think we should vote out the inactive people, and <b>force the mafia to be active.</b> If we vote out Fran, and she turns up innocent, that will show the mafia that they just need to shut up and let each other pick ourselves apart. However, if we commit ourselves to voting out the inactives, even if some are innocent, it will at least show the mafia that we will not let them hide.

Also, the more active people we have the more fun it is. And that's the point.

Freya has made 1 post. Think about it. Who suspects Freya at this point (besides me)? No one suspects her because she has not said anything that people can disagree with. She hasn't said anything at all! It's the perfect mafia strategy! I'm not limiting myself to her. Auron, Vivi, and some others need to step it up as well.

EDIT: While I typed this a lot of what I said was said by others concerning the Lovers. Sorry for any confusion.

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-21-2008, 08:51 PM
Fran:



Barret;2405461']
But you changed your vote by the end. Vote switching is a common Mafia tactic since they have to co-ordinate their votes to be effective.

I never changed my vote. Stop trying to spread misinformation.


Barret;2405461']

Fran;2405438'] The second day, I voted for Ramza cause he was pissing me off with his crazy logic and silly gimmick.
You voted for someone just because they were annoying you? That's the most ridiculous reason for voting for anyone in this game I've ever heard. How can you possibly expect anyone to accept such an explanation? That's an obvious lame excuse.

What part of crazy logic and silly gimmick makes a lynch vote ridiculous and lame to you? If you read through his posts and mine, you'd see that I was getting frustrated at the fact that his ideas and scenarios did NOT make any sense. Not only that, but why would someone try so hard to use a gimmick? Is that not at all suspicious to you? Obvious lame excuse? I beg to differ. It was the 2nd day. Were there any other crazy suspicious people around? The first few days are hard cause there's not much evidence. So I voted for whoever was acting the weirdest, and that was Ramza. Do I still believe he's mafia? Thinking about it, I'm not so sure. I'm not sure a mafia would act the way Ramza's been acting. Which is why Ramza is on the backburner for me now.


Barret;2405461']
Actually the Lover role in Mafia is either a pair that win if they're both alive by the end of the game, or one where if one dies so does the other. Since Lulu died and Irvine followed, I would say that gives us the second lot. Also, just because they are lovers doesn't mean they're not still Mafia. Lovers can be both Townie and Mafia people, they just work together. They were Mafia as indicated by their red titles. Ergo, their partnership is irrelevant to the factions within this game since, as part of the Mafia, their roles would have been two-fold; To work with the Mafia and to work with each other.

Like others have pointed out, Lovers in this game is NOT the Lovers talked about in the Mafia role flash. The game moderators specifically told us that. Pay attention. :twak:

And I already explained why Lovers is not a group WITHIN another scum group. Cause if they were, there is no reason to specifically give one Lover the power to kill, because in a scum group ALL members have power to kill.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-21-2008, 08:52 PM
Cid


Wow, alot of text, I glanced over what everyone wrote, but I didn't read everything, I am going to put that out right now, so If I said something that has been covered already I am sorry.

First I think that they are right in the assumption that the Lovers are separate from the mafia and that there were probably two of them, that makes sence, though the Lovers could be the name of a cult, but due to Irvines death scean, it wouldn't seem that way.

Even though I would love to say that "I voted for Lulu that makes me innocent," That is not true. -Rinoa, Faris, Cid, Edgar, Firion- We all voted for Lulu, that dose not make us innocent, we voted for a guilty member of the Lovers group, There is a chance that they are still a member of the Mafia and did not have any knowledge of the Lovers, and therefore thought that they were just voting for a townie.

This of course is all just speculation, but I think it is worth thinking about.

[M] Dave – Stepdad
01-21-2008, 09:02 PM
Barret:



Fran;2405514']I never changed my vote. Stop trying to spread misinformation.

You just said you did..............:confused:


Fran;2405514']What part of crazy logic and silly gimmick makes a lynch vote ridiculous and lame to you? If you read through his posts and mine, you'd see that I was getting frustrated at the fact that his ideas and scenarios did NOT make any sense. Not only that, but why would someone try so hard to use a gimmick? Is that not at all suspicious to you? Obvious lame excuse? I beg to differ. It was the 2nd day. Were there any other crazy suspicious people around? The first few days are hard cause there's not much evidence. So I voted for whoever was acting the weirdest, and that was Ramza. Do I still believe he's mafia? Thinking about it, I'm not so sure. I'm not sure a mafia would act the way Ramza's been acting. Which is why Ramza is on the backburner for me now.

Exactly. Decent Mafia players don't draw such obvious attention to themselves. Thusly I believe he might be a special role like a Jester. Either that or he's just not playing the game properly. It's still a bad reason to lynch someone; spotting Mafia should be about spotting inconsistencies in their testimonial and patterns of behaviour, not targetting someone for "acting weird".


Fran;2405514'] Like others have pointed out, Lovers in this game is NOT the Lovers talked about in the Mafia role flash. The game moderators specifically told us that. Pay attention. :twak:

And I already explained why Lovers is not a group WITHIN another scum group. Cause if they were, there is no reason to specifically give one Lover the power to kill, because in a scum group ALL members have power to kill.

OK, I refuse to go along with this a second longer until Bahamut clears up exactly what faction the Lovers were working for. I feel it's only fair because the Mafia role names have been in the same red text as the lovers were and people are getting confused

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-21-2008, 09:02 PM
Edge:



Quina;2405508']
Edge;2405473']
Quina;2405407']Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.
I will say that after attempting to read through all of these posts and try to come up with some suspects I've found you the most suspicious so far. Irvine (a confirmed guilty person) was quick to take you off of his suspect list and defended Lulu (a confirmed guilty person):
He was also quick to ADD ME to his suspect list. If we were working together, why would he suspect me in the first place?
Possibly to make you appear innocent like he tried to do with Lulu. Then again, he could just have been framing you so that we'd lynch you after his death. But since I'm sure that two out of the three people on his list are innocent it seems the first statement is more likely.

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-21-2008, 09:07 PM
Fran:



Barret;2405523']
You just said you did..............:confused:

Where did I say that?

Barret;2405523']
OK, I refuse to go along with this a second longer until Bahamut clears up exactly what faction the Lovers were working for. I feel it's only fair because the Mafia role names have been in the same red text as the lovers were and people are getting confused

Things the moderators have told us for sure:
* They are a scum group
* They are not the lover roles as presented in the Mafia flash

It's not hard to deduce from those two facts that the Lovers are a separate scum group. They were in red text, yes. Red symbolizes scum. Scum does not always equal Mafia. A serial killer would probably come up as scum and in red text too.


Barret;2405523']Exactly. Decent Mafia players don't draw such obvious attention to themselves.


Barret;2405363'] Of the two Fran is the one that's "doing the most damage" as it were.



Ok, which is it? I'm NOT mafia cause I'm drawing too much attention to myself, or I AM mafia cause I'm drawing too much attention to myself?

You need to pick one.

Also:


Barret;2405461'] If you had a legitimate reason for voting then you wouldn't be under suspicion right now. "Because he was annoying" just doesn't cut it in this game.



Faulty logic and posts that don't make sense isn't a legitimate reason for wanting to lynch someone? Especially so early on in the game when there's not much legitimate evidence to be had?

I was suspicious of Lulu too, and I stated as much, but if I had changed my vote to Lulu after voting for Ramza, you would just be here accusing me of being Mafia because I switched votes. A mafia tactic as you said. Which is why I made the comment about damned if I do, damned if I don't.

There were people who voted for you for no reason at all, and just to pick a random person. And yet I'm more suspicious than those people?

You're just full of contradictions, aren't you?

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-21-2008, 09:11 PM
Edge:



Fran;2405529']

Things the moderators have told us for sure:
* They are a scum group
* They are not the lover roles as presented in the Mafia flash


Bahamut;2404368']
What is a Lover (Doctor)? It's a bad thing. It's scum. You did well in killing it. And that's all I'm going to tell you. Oh, and it has nothing to do with the "Lovers" role on the mafia flash.

[M] Felix
01-21-2008, 09:13 PM
Quina:



Edge;2405524']
Quina;2405508']
Edge;2405473']
Quina;2405407']Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.
I will say that after attempting to read through all of these posts and try to come up with some suspects I've found you the most suspicious so far. Irvine (a confirmed guilty person) was quick to take you off of his suspect list and defended Lulu (a confirmed guilty person):
He was also quick to ADD ME to his suspect list. If we were working together, why would he suspect me in the first place?
Possibly to make you appear innocent like he tried to do with Lulu. Then again, he could just have been framing you so that we'd lynch you after his death. But since I'm sure that two out of the three people on his list are innocent it seems the first statement is more likely.Why? You have no reason to believe that I am working with the Lovers. If memory serves, Irvine voted for me because I said something to the effect of "someone do something" which is a pretty stupid reason to vote for someone anyway. I wasn't doing anything suspicious. He was just DOING SOMETHING.

Common sense would tell you that the Lovers were only two people to begin with. It sounds more like you want to lump me in with a group I'm clearly not a member of to get rid of me, which sounds more like something a member of a scum group would do.

Honestly. Half of me WANTS to be lynched just to prove you wrong.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-21-2008, 09:14 PM
Faris:


It could possibly be something brand new that qwerty and Psy came up with just to mess with us.

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-21-2008, 09:22 PM
Fran:



Edge;2405535']
Fran;2405529']

Things the moderators have told us for sure:
* They are a scum group
* They are not the lover roles as presented in the Mafia flash


Bahamut;2404368']
What is a Lover (Doctor)? It's a bad thing. It's scum. You did well in killing it. And that's all I'm going to tell you. Oh, and it has nothing to do with the "Lovers" role on the mafia flash.

Thank you for posting the specific quote from Bahamut. I was too lazy to go hunting for it. :p

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-21-2008, 09:31 PM
Edge:



Quina;2405536']Why? You have no reason to believe that I am working with the Lovers. If memory serves, Irvine voted for me because I said something to the effect of "someone do something" which is a pretty stupid reason to vote for someone anyway. I wasn't doing anything suspicious. He was just DOING SOMETHING.

Common sense would tell you that the Lovers were only two people to begin with. It sounds more like you want to lump me in with a group I'm clearly not a member of to get rid of me, which sounds more like something a member of a scum group would do.

Honestly. Half of me WANTS to be lynched just to prove you wrong.
Not exactly. I'm simply entertaining the possibility that the lovers might be a group comprised of more than two people. And if that answer is yes, it would likely make you a prime suspect. Irvine's defense for Lulu and you just seems highly suspicious because like most citizens, we are pretty much paranoid of everyone. Saying that he doesn't feel someone is suspicious at all and not really giving a plausible reason as to why makes me think.

I don't know that the lovers are just two people. Bahamut did not specify. He did say that it is nothing like the mafia flash so that would mean that there could be more lovers.

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out your role if you're not scum. You could possibly be a jester and that would mean you'd obviously want to get lynched, so I won't give you that satisfaction. Some of your comments haven't been very productive and suspicious. For example:


Quina;2405536']Oh, well. At least the Jester isn't a threat. xD



Quina;2402722']Let's all vote for whoever's screaming is the most coherant.


Quina;2402761']Let's vote for [randomname] for that suspicious post.

And then there's Lulu's post about jesters interestingly enough:

Lulu;2403248']Remember to be wary of jesters...

[M] Aaron
01-21-2008, 09:43 PM
Firion


There is a tale to be spun on this fine day children. Constant bickering seems to have blinded a few of you. I have reviewed the days activities and you guys, sigh. That's all i'm gonna say do is sigh.

Lets look. As you all have finally come across, I highly, HIGHLY doubt the lovers were the suicidal type and they were two power roles so they were most likely alone. Good job and taking almost a full page of posts to get that :mad:

Ok so let us first look at the night one death with this info of a killer. Ingus died, but wasn't a mafia hit. If so, his role would have caused him to have been inducted in their ranks. Which didn't happen. So an Independant faction had to hit him. We knew this day 2. Also now the Second night, 3 deaths. One had to be the killers target before he was offed himself.

Now let's look, lulu was his lover and a doctor. So i'm thinking most likely Irvine was protected the first night. This could have been a mafia hit or other faction. Someone could have targeted him and so the hit was blocked.

Let's also address the possible roles. The only one I see the most probable is the prostitute. This could also have come into play. As you know, three deaths have occurred this most recent night. But the first we had one, and that one wasn't a mafia hit. So if there is a role blocker, they may have blocked a killing role. So the only one left to kill could have been Irvine. Unless he was the one blocked and the other person killed Ingus.

Now that we have an idea of what happened. Lets address the mason issue. If it's a recruiting mason faction then we may have more and more by the day. If not then there may be a set amount. As bahumut said, they had a few factions and tried to balance out the groups each with a power role. So the masons may have a power role even though towns being able to talk is a big power on it's own.

If masons can recruit then that could be their power role. A mason faction gaining such a person like a cop or something other that would benefit them immensely that could become a big advantage. Mind you, Cyan was a mason. He very well could have been one who recruits. The cult aspect could apply, since there a few things they have changed, when he dies the power will be passed to the next or oldest member of the masonry. If you do look at the flash, a mason will die if they target a mafia member. So there could be your third reason for a death as of last night.

As I said though, the being able to talk is a big power on it's own. So we can't just jump to conclusion of the fact that they could have died that way. So we should still be looking for a third faction as well.

Hopefully I helped clarify some of the speculations. I'm trying to look at this as best as I can and please if there is anything else that may or could be addressed then please do say so.

Now I have my suspects but I thought this was becoming long so i'll save you all the reading of that for later. Also I have to type it all up so that'll take a bit.

[M] Ron - Cop Dad
01-21-2008, 10:55 PM
Basch:


hey guys, sorry i didnt vote last time, i was kinda counting on actually having electricity. Im currently freezing my ass off at home, and only have like 5 min in a internet cafe.

I have no idea who to vote for now, because id have to read all of it, but i got the gist scrolling through it. Ill check back in tomorrow for the voting

I hope elec will be on tonight, so then ill come back

later peeps

Basch (I'LL BASCH YOU ;))

[M] Felix
01-21-2008, 10:58 PM
Quina:



Edge;2405554']
Quina;2405536']Why? You have no reason to believe that I am working with the Lovers. If memory serves, Irvine voted for me because I said something to the effect of "someone do something" which is a pretty stupid reason to vote for someone anyway. I wasn't doing anything suspicious. He was just DOING SOMETHING.

Common sense would tell you that the Lovers were only two people to begin with. It sounds more like you want to lump me in with a group I'm clearly not a member of to get rid of me, which sounds more like something a member of a scum group would do.

Honestly. Half of me WANTS to be lynched just to prove you wrong.
Not exactly. I'm simply entertaining the possibility that the lovers might be a group comprised of more than two people. And if that answer is yes, it would likely make you a prime suspect. Irvine's defense for Lulu and you just seems highly suspicious because like most citizens, we are pretty much paranoid of everyone. Saying that he doesn't feel someone is suspicious at all and not really giving a plausible reason as to why makes me think.

I don't know that the lovers are just two people. Bahamut did not specify. He did say that it is nothing like the mafia flash so that would mean that there could be more lovers.

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out your role if you're not scum. You could possibly be a jester and that would mean you'd obviously want to get lynched, so I won't give you that satisfaction. Some of your comments haven't been very productive and suspicious. For example:


Quina;2405536']Oh, well. At least the Jester isn't a threat. xD



Quina;2402722']Let's all vote for whoever's screaming is the most coherant.


Quina;2402761']Let's vote for [randomname] for that suspicious post.

And then there's Lulu's post about jesters interestingly enough:

Lulu;2403248']Remember to be wary of jesters...

Like I said before. If I'm a jester, I'm horrible at it. The only people who really think I'm a threat are you and Barret and neither of you have a sweet clue what's going on. If I WAS a Jester, how the hell would Lulu know?

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-22-2008, 12:23 AM
Edge:



Quina;2405676']
Like I said before. If I'm a jester, I'm horrible at it.
I concur, that's why I'm prone to think you're scum.


The only people who really think I'm a threat are you and Barret and neither of you have a sweet clue what's going on. If I WAS a Jester, how the hell would Lulu know?Well, I can't speak for Barret, but I'm not completely clueless, though I admittedly have catching up to do. And I never said Lulu knew you were a jester. I was quoting what she said about jesters. The only way for her to know that there was a jester role is if there was a Lovers (Jester) but that would just be insanely odd.

But, after reading through more posts I have more suspicions now. Mog in particular. Because this person posts once in a blue moon and doesn't participate in voting. This likely means that they are active, but seemingly trying to hide themselves.

Also, Vivi because of their one vote for me in the beginning. Yes, it was most likely random but when he said:

Vivi;2402600']Everyone has to vote for someone, I just took a stab in the dark. I really don't think it makes a big difference.

It struck me as odd because a townie wouldn't say it doesn't make a difference. They'd care if they lynched one of their own. Especially if that person's role is important. They wouldn't want to jeopardize the game based on voting so carelessly.

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 12:34 AM
Rinoa


Mog definitely fits the inactive mafia role as well.

[M] Dee
01-22-2008, 12:47 AM
Auron:


Here's a list of groups that have had similarities in voting styles:

Rydia Day 1, Idle Day 2: Aeris, Basch, Cyan
Vivi Day 1, Idle Day 2: Auron, Freya, Terra
Lone voters on either Day: Mog, Vivi, Barret
Edgar Day 1, Lulu Day 2: Cid, Firion, Rinoa
Ingus Day 1, Ramza Day 2: Fran, Lulu, Quina
Idle Day 2: Aeris, Auron, Basch, Cyan, Edge, Freya, Mog, Terra, Vivi

Here's a tally of people that voted in those groups and how often their names come up (excluding dead people):

Aeris 2
Basch 2
Auron 2
Freya 2
Mog 2
Vivi 2
Barret 1
Cid 1
Firion 1
Rinoa 1
Fran 1
Quina 1
Edge 1

From this, we can see that the people with the most predictable vote patterns are Aeris, Basch, Auron, Freya, Mog, and Vivi. One more thing I'd like to point out. Both of the "Lover" roles voted against Ramza. Because of this, I'm leaning toward Ramza as an innocent.

[M] Gaius
01-22-2008, 12:57 AM
Edgar:


Alright let me post my thoughts thus far.
1. Barret & Fran: These two's argument has me thinking one of them is Mafia, if not one then the other. At the moment I'm leaning towards Barret.

A. He claims that his posting style was the best one. I can't agree with that, in my opinion its one of the most suspicious type. Almost like Hsu from last round, showing up to vote and leaving.
B. The way he keeps getting us back to the Lover's debate. It seems like he's trying to spread misinformation. IMO you have to make some assumptions, and I believe that there only being two Lover roles should be an obvious one. Barret trying to point out something different seems like a way to get us distracted from the real issue here. The mafia, and the possibility of a cult or a different killing role.
C. Barret straight out lied about Fran changing a vote. She NEVER did that. Only scum should have to lie.

Thats more then I have on Fran. In fact, most of anything I have on Fran requires Barret to be a citizen. Even then I don't have overwhelming evidence.

2. Firion: Firion got me thinking, there are so many roles who knows what happened to Terra. There could be, in fact, a third faction, with the way this game has gone. So, I apologize Rinoa. No hard feelings?

3. Edge: You seem to also be convinced, like Barret, that there are more Lovers. I refuse to believe this. But you seem to be more of someone fooled by misinfo (originating from Barret).

4. Quina: I don't think there is a cult, so Jester is possible. I think Quina might be a jester, if he is, he's doing a pretty good job. I think he's trying to stay away from the "must get lynched immediately" and setting up things that will lead to lynching later. We'll see, but right now I think he might be a jester.

5. Vivi: Out of all of the inactive members. He's got most of my suspicion. Irvine was trying to set up Vivi to take a hit. Then Irvine dies in the night? Hmmmm.... ;)
Definite suspect.

6. Basch: I feel bad suspecting someone who doesn't have electricity call me gullible, but I believe him.

I feel like voting now, because I should probably go to bed a reasonable time, so I don't know if anything new will come up between now and then, and then afterwards I have finals, so I might not be here for the conclusion.

## Vote: Barret

[M] Mom – Host
01-22-2008, 12:59 AM
Bahamut:


Votecount

Fran(1): Barret

Vivi(1): Auron

Freya(1): Rinoa

Barret(1): Edgar

Not voting
Aeris, Basch, Cid, Edge, Faris, Firion, Fran, Freya, Mog, Quina, Ramza, Vivi.

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is set for 7:15 PM GMT on Tuesday, 22 January. That's about 18 and a half hours from now.

[M] Aaron
01-22-2008, 01:19 AM
Firion


You have the dead Cyan as a non voter, Of course he's isn't voting. He's dead.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-22-2008, 01:38 AM
Cid


Gah... both me and my beard are having a great amount of trouble keeping up with this round...

I don't have much to go on except what I read in other peoples arguments, and that is alot of text to go through, I do think Edgar made some good points about Barret.

Quina... I just don't know, and as of right now I am not going to worry about it, the whole thing makes my beard hurt.

I think Cyan probably died trying to recruit a member of the Mafia, so for now I am going to go and look at who Cyan might have attempted to recruit last night, if there is someone that looks like a likely candidate for Cyan to attempt to recruit could likely be Mafia.

EDIT: Well I didn't really see anything during day to that offered any idea on who Cyan would try to recruit. If anyone else sees anything else that could be helpful.

[M] Apollo
01-22-2008, 01:55 AM
Ramza:



Cid;2405784']Gah... both me and my beard are having a great amount of trouble keeping up with this round...

I don't have much to go on except what I read in other peoples arguments, and that is alot of text to go through, I do think Edgar made some good points about Barret.

Quina... I just don't know, and as of right now I am not going to worry about it, the whole thing makes my beard hurt.

I think Cyan probably died trying to recruit a member of the Mafia, so for now I am going to go and look at who Cyan might have attempted to recruit last night, if there is someone that looks like a likely candidate for Cyan to attempt to recruit could likely be Mafia.

The Ramza would like to point out that Cyan was a Mason, not a Mason Recruiter. It is not likely that Cyan has recruited anyone. The Ramza thinks its safe to assume that Cyan was a target last night.

Next, it has already been stated that the Saulus, (The Ramza forgets the spelling agian) would be recruited by Mafia if killed, so The Ramza beleives that there is a Mafia, Meaning the Lovers are/were the other Faction. (The possobility of the Lovers Child exists, so for now The Ramza thinks we can assume that there are no more lovers.)

Assuming there are/were 3 killing parties, it is likely Irvine died, but still got off his kill. So now we may only have 2 killing parties remainin. The Mafia is most likely one, and the other is either a Vigilante or Serial killer. (The Ramza apologizes if this was already said, The Ramza has yet to read all that was mentioned.)

The Ramza shall say more after looking over the rest.

Translation:

1) Cyan was a Mason, not a Mason Recruiter. He likely didn't try to recruit Mafia.

2) Given the Saulus, Mafia is likely a faction in the game, makign the second killing faction outside of Lovers.

3) Lovers are most likely gone now.

4) The Lovers (Killer) Most likely died after preforming a kill, meaning there is possibly only 2 killing factions remaining.

5) Said two factions are likely either Vigilante or Serial Killer.

6) I'll be reading what I skipped over to catch up.

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 03:07 AM
Rinoa


People keep saying they are going to read through the thread and type up their response but they don't!

But there is a lot of it. I like what The Ramza has to say. Really, nothing much has come out of the day's discussions, which is why there is not much voting.

Which is why I think we should RALLY TOGETHER and dump one of the inactive people. I've been saying this all day. I've been waiting for people to come up with something persuasive about another member but so far all they do is bicker. The great part about voting off inactive people is there isn't much argument involved, they aren't around to provide any!

I'm not 100% committed to Freya. She was on a list with Auron and Edge and both of them have showed up recently. I have not overlooked Mog, Vivi, and Basch.

[M] Aaron
01-22-2008, 03:12 AM
Firion


A quiet evening alone, that's what I was doing. Got me to think. "I need to write up my suspicion list already." Alas here I am.

I think we need to address Barrett and our replacement Edge.


Barret;2405279']
Since I can only vote for one, I'll go for Fran because they seemed to me to be the most analysing one and thusly the one who would be best eliminated so they don't cause as much of a fuss;

##Vote: Fran

Just a wonder but wouldn't you want the one that posts the most to stay alive, that offers more of a chance for them to slip up. More evidence as well. Posting a lot isn't a very good evidence. If you went with that, there would be a number of people on your list.




Barret;2405461']

Fran;2405438']Nice. So since I kept my vote with someone who I didn't think was playing well, it makes me suspicious. If I had changed my vote, I would have been suspicious too. Damned if I do, damned if I don't eh?

If you had a legitimate reason for voting then you wouldn't be under suspicion right now. "Because he was annoying" just doesn't cut it in this game.

.....

Rydia;2402948']##Vote: Ingus because
5. He's just god damn annoying.
Who was a townie? Oh yeah.... rydia. Some people find the annoying thing a legit reason Mister Barret :D If they are going out of their way to have a different persona, an annoying one some may say, that could lead to them trying to fake something.



Barret;2405363']
Faris;2405311']I agree though, Barret's vote is pretty fast, and I don't quite see the connections he points out in his evidence. Care to explain a bit more as I'm not entirely getting at your reasons.

I'm simply looking at the voting patterns. If there's one thing I've learned over the years playing this game, votes give away everything. This is especially true in such a game where people have lots of time to consider their answers and can blantantly lie without anyone picking it up (in "real-life" Mafia games I tend to be something of a human lie detector making things easier). While we don't know if the Redded people were Mafia per say, I would say their concurrent demises, one at the hands of townspeople and the other through another means, suggests they were on the same bandwagon since it wouldn't make sense for anyone but non-Mafia members to target Irvine in the night directly following it unless it's some purposeful ruse to take people off the scent.

In the first round Fran, Quina and Lulu all voted for the person lynched. In round two they all voted for the same person again. This to me suggests that they're working together. I imagine Irvine decided to vote for Ingus because everyone was jumping on him and it was an opportunity to make sure an innocent died. They couldn't all change their votes however because that's just too suspicious. Now that Lulu is dead that leaves Fran and Quina. Of the two Fran is the one that's "doing the most damage" as it were.

Um ok barret. He was an independent faction, him and lulu that is. They were out to kill everyone else, the mafia as well, just as the town was.



Edgar;2405316']Other then vote, he’s done almost nothing! I think he may be trying to hide out, and lay low. Next look at the italicized caption (in his first post). He preaches that he can’t watch such speed voting. Then votes immediately in round 2 and 3. We found Lulu off contradictions, could we be on a potential mafian member with them again? Maybe, that’s why your on the top of my list.

God your quote was a mess. Anyways, one of the reasons why I lie low and don't get involved in the mass disputes is because it's a sure-fire way to get people thinking your Mafia. I give my reasons and rebuttals to anyone who accuses me and lay low the rest of the time. Petty squabbles and over-analysing just isn't my style. I voted as quick as I did so my analysis could be right next to the voting scores so people didn't have to track back to check them (I'm assuming many would just say "o he's lying" and ignore me). I also suspect you so much it's unreal. If I had a concrete reason to vote for you right now I would, but at the moment your incessant double talk makes it nye on impossible to follow what you're saying/doing.
Rarely saying something gets suspicion on you as well, quick voting also does that. The more you talk, and if you truly are a good orator then you should be able convince people what you say is the truth.




Edge;2405473']
Quina;2405407']Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.
I will say that after attempting to read through all of these posts and try to come up with some suspects I've found you the most suspicious so far. Irvine (a confirmed guilty person) was quick to take you off of his suspect list and defended Lulu (a confirmed guilty person):


Irvine;2404018']Well, Quina's off my suspect list. For now.

I think Lulu's suspicion is unfounded, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's Mafia; she may have just interpreted some of Edgar's posts incorrectly in the interim between the two quotes mentioned previously.

Now then, with Quina no longer being a prime suspect of mine, and my opinion on Lulu, the current prime suspect, being readily available above, who do I suspect now? Apologies for the overuse of "suspect". My thoughts on that is that it may be because you are guilty too.

Then he pointed his finger towards Cyan (a confirmed innocent person) as well as me (unconfirmed innocent person). That's why I'm thinking that those people on this list he went after are possibly innocent:

Irvine;2404018']Vivi - Voted for Edge, the only person not yet to post in this thread. Mafia voting for a random known non-Mafia? Or, a sneaky plan by Vivi as a Mafia to vote for one of his fellow Mafia, who hadn't posted, just as a seemingly random vote to draw attention away from both of them?

Edge - See Vivi, but obviously no evidence as of yet. Hardly a strong suspect in my eyes, but there's always the possibility.

Cyan - As mentioned by Firion, Cyan started the voting for Rydia with a bunch of evidence that seven of us, not knowing any better, followed nigh-blindly. I was one of them, of course. Now that Rydia has turned out to be an oddly-posting Townie, Cyan's arguments look more suspicious, as Firion pointed out.

So Vivi and Cyan are the big ones for me right now. No vote as of yet, of course.That would make Lulu and Quina Irvine's partners in crime.


Edge;2405507']Ah, well, if Bahamut clearly specified that the lovers role had nothing to do with the flash version that would mean that the whole thing with the person committing suicide the following night after the other was lynched could be faulty. Irvine could have very well been killed by someone else. The fact that they were also killer and doctor respectively leaves me to believe that it is possible that there is more than a duo of lovers with a different role (like a Lover(Cop) or something.

Which means that they could be a group faction with more than two people. Especially since they were scum. Basically, that would mean that the other scums probably knew about them and vice versa. Lovers could be the name of the mafia in this game. Ofcourse, this all seems like such a stretch, but something seemed puzzling about the fact that Bahamut felt the need to list two roles.
Um ok barret Edge. He was an independent faction, him and lulu that is. They were out to kill everyone else, the mafia as well, just as the town was.

Stop spreading mis-info. Funny that you both say this, I'm seeing a connection between the two of you and i'm not liking that. So i'm leaning toward the masons or mafia belief in you two. More so the mafia thing. I can't even be bothered in quoting more, I'd rather not repeat myself more than I have.

Edit: silly typos.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-22-2008, 03:54 AM
Faris:



Rinoa;2405825']
Which is why I think we should RALLY TOGETHER and dump one of the inactive people. I've been saying this all day. I've been waiting for people to come up with something persuasive about another member but so far all they do is bicker. The great part about voting off inactive people is there isn't much argument involved, they aren't around to provide any!

I agree with this. I said earlier we should look into inactives a bit more. Glad to see someone finally agrees with this train of thought.

For the moment I'll be voting Mog because he's been fairly inactive and that alone is holding some suspicion for me since we're already this advanced in the game.

##VOTE: Mog

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 04:11 AM
Rinoa


Ok, so that puts like 6 people with one vote.

Faris, what made you decide Mog over the other inactives?

[M] Mom – Host
01-22-2008, 05:30 AM
Bahamut:


Five, actually!

Votecount

Fran(1): Barret

Vivi(1): Auron

Freya(1): Rinoa

Barret(1): Edgar

Mog(1): Faris

Not voting (remember yesterday, folks? Might want to get your votes in soon! Remember you can unvote at any time you like!)
Aeris, Basch, Cid, Edge, Firion, Fran, Freya, Mog, Quina, Ramza, Vivi.

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is set for 7:15 PM GMT on Tuesday, 22 January. That's about 14 hours from now.

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 06:11 AM
Rinoa


Ha, 9 to lynch? We'll be lucky if we get 9 that vote.

I'm considering changing to Mog just so we have a majority for someone.

Oh what the hell. He fits the type who I'm trying to get rid of, and we need to get things going. I'm pretty disappointed in everyone right now.

<b>##Unvote: Freya
##Vote: Mog</b>

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-22-2008, 06:45 AM
Cid


I have to go to bed soon, and my beard is upset about the lack of activity... I want to have a vote before I go to bed, but I will look over everything again tomorrow, I really hope more people will vote.

Looking at what everyone has said I dont think there is enough to justify a vote towards Mog. I am going to vote for Barret for now, but I also think there isnt enough to condemn him with.

##Vote: Barret

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-22-2008, 07:24 AM
Fran:


I am hesitant to vote because I don't want to be wrong again. I really want to help the town and vote for the right person, but I'm not omniscient and I don't know who is guilty or innocent. Following my gut has just made me suspicious to people.

But given that we're starting to run out of time, and I probably won't be there in the morning when this round ends, I am going to go for the person who had the most holes in their post. I hope for my sake (as well as the rest of the town) that I actually get this one right. I don't feel 100% about it, but it's the best option at the moment. I wish someone had presented a better case, but the clock is ticking down and no one has. And I would rather take the chance and actually contribute to the town by VOTING than be wishy-washy and not vote at all.

##Vote: Barret

[M] Apollo
01-22-2008, 08:17 AM
Ramza:


The Ramza has noted something, not much was gained from this entire day for The Ramza. At all.

At least nothing the Ramza pieced together on his own.

In addition to original suspicions against Barret, The Ramza takes not of him saying Fran had switched her vote, thus making him look more suspicios.

In addition, Barret posted very little, until he was under fire. The Ramza believes a sudden change in patterns like that is odd.

The Ramza prays to the Gods that The Ramza is about to make the right decision.

##Vote: Barret

Translation:

All I really learned from today was someone saying that Barret lied about Frans vote changing. IT clearly didn't. I'd rather no one mention it until later to draw someone else out instead, but meh, he gets my vote for sure now.

Sorry if you are town.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-22-2008, 02:48 PM
Faris:



Rinoa;2405862']Faris, what made you decide Mog over the other inactives?

Of the inactive people Mog I think warrants the most suspicion. Some of the other inactives have posted enough and greater detail that I can't really get suspicion out of them for being quiet earlier, such as Basch, Auron, or Edge.

However the 3 most inactive people I've seen thus far were Freya, Mog, and Vivi. Of them they all warrant suspicion, but Mog in my eyes is the highest on my list, Freya I'm attributing her partially to just inactivity, her one post hasn't made me too suspicious of her yet, and Vivi, I honestly don't know what to think of. He's quiet, has made the most posts of the three, and despite all that he's also come up in a LOT of discussions especially with Irvine(known scum). So I chose Mog of the 3, as I hold some suspicion towards Vivi, but at the same time it also looks like he might just be getting set up. So I'm withholding judgments towards him until I can either figure out what's up with him, or something happens allows me to figure out what is up with him and all the activity involving him.

Edit: Whooops said Irvine voted em first, looked over to confirm and realized I remembered wrong. Doh.

[M] Adama
01-22-2008, 03:18 PM
Freya:


I'm so sorry everyone, both my internet and my partner's went down over the weekend. Plus I was unexpectedly transported to my grandma's house (weird coincidence, eh?). I'm posting from school now. I don't want to vote in a rush (got me in trouble last time it seems), so I will just read over everything carefully and vote later today.

[M] Dee
01-22-2008, 03:49 PM
Auron:


Players who are still inactive: Freya, Mog, Vivi.

Freya's only post:

Freya;2403135']I think I will trust Ingus and Edgar for this round. If either of them are mafia, it will become clear to us sometime in the game.

Vivi;2402576']Lets get this over with.

##Vote: Edge


I really, really, do not like this post.

##Vote: Vivi

Freya had a similar mindset as I did in the beginning about the Ingus/Edgar thing. Like I said before, Edgar is not as dodgy-looking to me now but that's still under investigation. Maybe Ingus just tried to pick a fight with someone and avoid being lynched to insure that he would be targetted during the night. Whether he was trying to aid the Mafia by joining them or aid the town by getting himself killed by someone else to prevent a Mafia recruitment is up in the air. That could be a reason that he acted so crazy. But back to Freya. She voted for Vivi but only because she really didn't like his post. Not having a logical explanation for voting is an easy way to get a group of lynchers after you.

Mog's three posts:


Mog;2402494']Well, this should be exciting! Who should we lynch first, kupo?


Mog;2402969']Wow, we sure have some active players this time. That makes it fun, but also a pain when I leave for short amounts of time. In any case, I really haven't come to a conclusion from everyone's bickering, and first day lynching's are silly anyway. But, since I know I've seen this happen once before...
##Vote: Aeris


Mog;2404185']I'd love to see what Lulu has to say.

The first one I'm willing to throw out. Just a little bit of spam introduction. The second one is much juicier. Mog mentions not coming to a conclusion but happens to decide on Aeris. He is the only one to do so on Day 1, playing on his thoughts of usually seeing someone innocent go down first day because of random voting. I remember Cyan pretty adamantly defending Aeris at one time. Cyan was a Mason, an awesome ally for the town. I'm mostly sold that Aeris is an innocent. Lastly, Mog posts on Day 2 but does not vote.

Vivi's four posts:


Vivi;2402562']what up?
EDIT: I take it I'm not good enough for a big M.


Vivi;2402576']Lets get this over with.
##Vote: Edge


Vivi;2402600']Everyone has to vote for someone, I just took a stab in the dark. I really don't think it makes a big difference.


Vivi;2402609']That's why I said I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference.

First post, same as Mog. Intro spam. Second post, the one that made me suspect him. The voting had already started but he enters the fray by throwing in a random name without a reason. Third post, "everyone has to vote for someone" rule seems to not apply since a lot of people missed votes on Day 2. Lastly, he points out that he doesn't think it makes a big difference who he votes for at that early stage. There were still 20 hours left on Day 1, so I can understand what he may have meant. However, he never came back to change his vote AND has yet to come back at all.

I think it's entirely possible that all the mafia are just biding their time and letting us pin the blame on ourselves. In my opinion, it's insane that Day 3 is almost over and we only have half the possible votes in.

After looking at the inactives more carefully, I'm now going to have to say I also think Mog is more likely to be mafia for reasons stated above.

##Unvote: Vivi
##Vote: Mog

Edit: And there's Freya. And I almost put this under my real account ahhh.

[M] Athena
01-22-2008, 03:55 PM
Vivi:


Auron sounds like a good townie to me, either that or he's just a very good mafia playing some mind games.

Back now anyway, to actually play the game.

[M] Dee
01-22-2008, 03:59 PM
Auron:


Wow... Now where's Mog?

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-22-2008, 04:01 PM
Faris:


Geez speak of the devil. We put up the inactives as suspects and 2 out of 3 pop up within an hour. =P

[M] Athena
01-22-2008, 04:01 PM
Vivi:


;)

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 04:26 PM
Rinoa



Faris;2406094']Geez speak of the devil. We put up the inactives as suspects and 2 out of 3 pop up within an hour. =P
Which should bring up the question: are they really inactive, or just not posting?

[M] Mom – Host
01-22-2008, 04:47 PM
Bahamut:


(presumably an error-strewn) Votecount

Barret(4): Edgar, Cid, Fran, Ramza

Mog(3): Faris, Rinoa, Auron

Fran(1): Barret

Vivi(0): Auron

Freya(0): Rinoa

Not voting
Aeris, Basch, Edge, Firion, Freya, Mog, Quina, Vivi.

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is set for 7:15 PM GMT on Tuesday, 22 January. That's about 2 and a half hours from now so go vote you ragamuffins! Remember that you CAN unvote, so don't be shy!

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-22-2008, 05:22 PM
Aeris:


My main supects I guess would be Barret and Mog.

Barret because he lied about Fran's vote, and as it was said before, the only people who would lie are the mafia - but then, that could have just been an oversight on his part. He was rather eager to vote this round, and his reasoning behind it hasn't exactly been solid.

Mog's inactivity has also been supicious; along with Vivi and Freya; but his random vote for me - no, I'm not biased, whoever said that?! :p - after he said that he had no actual conclusions. Although, he could have been voting outwith the main suspects, so he didn't become a suspect himself if one turned out to be innocent, and he'd voted them.

But, I think I'll

##Vote: Mog

Since Barret has been moderately active, and that's what we need - not inactive players who have contributed nothing thus far.

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 05:59 PM
Rinoa


It's sad to see people like Firion, Edge, and Quina on the not voted list since they have been posting this round.

Maybe a new rule should be: if you don't state your vote in the thread, then it will be counted as if you voted for yourself. That should get these mafia to perk up.

[M] Mom – Host
01-22-2008, 06:20 PM
Bahamut:



Rinoa;2406184']Maybe a new rule should be: if you don't state your vote in the thread, then it will be counted as if you voted for yourself. That should get these mafia to perk up.I thought we had already announced that as a rule at the start of Day 2. Turns out we didn't. :redface:

Either way, it's officially in place now. Don't like it? Too bad. It's in the rules that you should vote, so you have to expect consequences for breaking them.

(presumably a less error-strewn) Votecount

Barret(4): Edgar, Cid, Fran, Ramza

Mog(4): Faris, Rinoa, Auron, Aeris

Fran(1): Barret

Vivi(0): Auron

Freya(0): Rinoa

Not voting (and therefore will officially vote for themselves. These votes won't be added to the tally above but they'll still be counted)
Basch, Edge, Firion, Freya, Mog, Quina, Vivi.

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is set for 7:15 PM GMT on Tuesday, 22 January. That's LESS THAN AN HOUR from now so go vote you ragamuffins! Remember that you CAN unvote, so don't be shy!

Mog's neck is currently on the chopping vote, by virtue of being tied with Barret and not voting.

[M] Felix
01-22-2008, 06:51 PM
Quina:


Well I'm voting for Barret so nyah.

##Vote: Barret

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 07:07 PM
Rinoa


It is still my belief that if Barret was mafia, he would eventually talk himself into trouble. Whereas if Mog or Freya were mafia, they could essentially get away by doing nothing since no one would ever find enough evidence to vote for them.

I'm not saying Barret is cleared. He is suspicious. It's just that there are so many inactive or barely active players that if we don't get rid of them now they will eventually become a majority. For all we know, Freya could be hiding in the bushes and using her gun to kill us one by one. I'd rather face the enemy I can see rather than the one I can't.

[M] Mom – Host
01-22-2008, 07:19 PM
Bahamut:


FINAL Votecount

Barret(5): Edgar, Cid, Fran, Ramza, Quina

Mog(4): Faris, Rinoa, Auron, Aeris

Fran(1): Barret

Vivi(0): Auron

Freya(0): Rinoa

Not voting (and therefore will officially vote for themselves. These votes won't be added to the tally above but they'll still be counted)
Basch, Edge, Firion, Freya, Mog, Vivi.

Because Mog did not vote, he is now tied with Barret, on five votes apiece. We now enter SUDDEN DEATH. You may now only vote for Barret or Mog. First one to be voted for gets lynched.

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 07:20 PM
Rinoa


Does it have to be a person who didn't already vote? If not then Mog.

[M] Mom – Host
01-22-2008, 07:23 PM
Bahamut:


Yes, it does have to be. You're still welcome to unvote Mog and vote for Barret if you choose.

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 07:26 PM
Rinoa


God dammit I hate this game. Well he's at least playing, even if badly. So no change from me.

[M] Athena
01-22-2008, 07:39 PM
Vivi:


I dunno who to vote for, and even if I do vote everyone will be like 'ahh Vivi you suspicious mafia scum!!'

[M] Apollo
01-22-2008, 07:45 PM
Ramza:


The Ramza thinks it is time to end this.

While The Ramza is suspicious of Barret still, why would he lie about Fran's vote? A plain old lie like that wouldn't exactly help him, as it's easy to track back. The Ramza is starting to think he's just screwing up a lot when reading over everything, so The Ramza no longer think of him as a suspect.

The Ramza apologizes to Mog.

##unvote: Barret
##vote: Mog

Translation: Barrets lie about Fran changing votes wouldn't help him at all. It was far to obvious, so I think it's likely he just smurfed up somewhere when reading through the posts.

Sorry Mog, but this day needs to end.

[M] Caprica
01-22-2008, 07:50 PM
Rinoa


I apologize in advance The Ramza if Mog ends up being the bomb. But I'm pretty sure the prostitute is the role in play among those listed.

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-22-2008, 07:51 PM
Edge:



Firion;2405829']
Um ok barret Edge. He was an independent faction, him and lulu that is. They were out to kill everyone else, the mafia as well, just as the town was.

Stop spreading mis-info. Funny that you both say this, I'm seeing a connection between the two of you and i'm not liking that. So i'm leaning toward the masons or mafia belief in you two. More so the mafia thing. I can't even be bothered in quoting more, I'd rather not repeat myself more than I have.

Edit: silly typos.
When has Bahamut confirmed that either of our theories are correct? I don't think he has yet, so you can't rule out my theory until it's confirmed correct or inncorrect. Also, I didn't even read what Barret said. I've been skimming in this thread since yesterday trying to catch up.

[M] Mom – Host
01-22-2008, 07:51 PM
Bahamut:


Mog was a filthy, filthy pervert. He liked nothing better than to hide in the bushes, peeking at his fellow townspeople. He was hoping to spy Aeris changing, or maybe some freaky interspecies lovefest between Freya and Fran. What he spied instead was his own death.

You see, Mog broke into the morgue to perv on the dead body of Rydia. Maybe in EoFF Staff Town (Population: 2) necro-paedophilia was encouraged. But not here.

Faris discovered him down there, and soon the town had rallied against poor Mog and hung him. And all he wanted to do was see some skin. He didn't want to kill nobody!

Mog was a Watcher, played by Sheep.

Incidentally, this was the guy you were always waiting on at night! GET HIM! ...oh. You already did. Uh...carry on!

NIGHT ACTIONS. GO.

[M] Mom – Host
01-23-2008, 03:40 AM
Bahamut:


As the memory of Mog's bloody death still fresh in his mind, Vivi decided to take a short walk around the town. He was a little nervous about the mafia, but the morning was just too nice to pass up. The birds were singing, there was a light breeze, but there was something off.

Vivi turned the corner and saw a piece of cloth in the nearby bush. Vivi pulled on the object, and to his horror he saw Auron with a bloody sword and a shot through his heart. Auron has been killed, even though he is already dead.

Auron was a Mafia Ninja, thanks for playing oddler

As Vivi was standing in shock of his find, Freya was also enjoying a nice morning stroll. She was thinking of how her feelings for Fratley were growing again, and she didn't notice the rock in the middle of the street.

Freya fell and saw a piece of cloth in the nearby bush, with a glint of metal. She pulled on the object, and to his horror he saw Barret in his sailor outfit, with a shot through the heart.

Barret was a Roleblocker, thanks for playing Captain Maxx Power.

but wait, after the shocking scene, Freya found something else nestled in that bush. One of these roles is NOT in play

Beloved Princess
Faith Healer
Mafia Cop

Day 4 now begins, and with 13 people left, it takes 7 to lynch. VOTE!!!!! (Remember, if you don't vote you vote for yourself)

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-23-2008, 03:53 AM
Faris:


My very world just got shook. I suspected Barret of being mafia for his suspicious activities, and Auron of being one of the good guys for his informative posts. This is really all very confusing to me.

Someone hold me, I think I'm gonna go be scared now. T_T

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-23-2008, 03:57 AM
Edge:


Barret to die? A predictable choice, to say the least. This means the rate of Mafia to Innocents has increased, and that's not good. We need to be less on the edge about this, if you ask me. If we don't have faith in one another, we can't win. On the other hand, if we trust each other too much, we're more likely to lose. 'Tis the game of Mafia.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-23-2008, 04:01 AM
Cid



Faris;2406691']My very world just got shook. I suspected Barret of being mafia for his suspicious activities, and Auron of being one of the good guys for his informative posts. This is really all very confusing to me.

Someone hold me, I think I'm gonna go be scared now. T_T

Cids beard will comfort you...

I really hope that people are more active today, come on people. Without people talking we have nothing to really go off of, and if we keep voting off people based on the little info that we have... well then we aren't doing very much good are we?

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-23-2008, 04:05 AM
Faris:


Well with 2 deaths I say it's time to evaluate Auron's and Barret's words more carefully. We can now assume Barret wasn't trying to deceive us now. Where as Auron was. I think it's time we start getting more careful with our moves.

And with a mafia dead the possibility of a serial killer or a vigilante on top of the mafia and lovers seems very plausible now.

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-23-2008, 04:06 AM
Edge:


What we need is more people being active and more trust between players, I'd say. If we just have a few bunches of people barking at each other, there's no real need to make judgements for oneself, is there? We could just have a few blokes in here deciding choices for us, and the suspects be presented. It's like political parties, really, but in a less serious fashion. Good for anyone trying to hide, town or mafia.

I can't say anything about inactivity being a bad thing, though. I've been very inactive myself. We've still got to understand that when people are inactive, they'd probably rather be playing a rousing game of Mafia. :monster: There's probably something going on I.R.L. that keeps them away from our antics.

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 04:11 AM
Rinoa


See, Auron was inactive and he was a mafia! I do know what I'm talking about!

Is roleblocker the same as prostitute? I get confused with those.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-23-2008, 04:13 AM
Cid



Auron;2405342']Vivi is still numero uno. I understand if it was complete inactivity but he hasn't come to put any kind of input in or anything. Not saying that I did much more but at least I have some logic to go on.

The Ingus/Edgar thing is still in my head. In my way of thinking, when two people blatantly go out and have their own little spat, I tend to think one of them is mafia. Maybe that doesn't apply anymore, though. Edgar's been pretty cool and smoothed over a lot of it since he was replaced or people started sharing his account. And in the same sense, reading over yesterday's posts, now I've got a Ramza/Fran thing going on in my head.

##Vote: Vivi

Auron was pretty quick to vote for Vivi yesterday, and also he pointed out that he thought Edgar was innocent, (or at least that his suspicion towards Edgar wasn't as strong) and that he was starting to worry about Ramza/Fran. Just food for thought.

EDIT: In fact, Looking back at alot of Aurons old posts, he voted for Vivi constantly throughout the game...

[M] Adama
01-23-2008, 04:14 AM
Freya:




Note to self: do NOT break promises when under suspicion.

I'm off to bed now, I'll check things out in the morning.

[M] Mom – Host
01-23-2008, 04:15 AM
Bahamut:


Prostatute is a mafia roleblocker.

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 04:21 AM
Rinoa


I'm with Cid on Vivi. Auron was pretty quick to vote for him twice, which leads me to believe he isn't mafia. He's useless (unless he's a doctor), but he isn't mafia.

Freya has made three posts. Two of them were to say she would read over everything and make some comments later. Those comments have not come. The only thing she has going for her is that Auron suspected her in his longest post (although briefly). She was my chief suspect Day 2 and remains so right now, until she can post her thoughts.

Right now my vote goes:

<b>##Vote: Freya</b>

Because she has not made any sort of contribution, yet when I started calling out for inactive people to show up or be voted out, she appears to say BOTH of her account holders are too busy. That seems really fishy.

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-23-2008, 04:31 AM
Edge:


Fishy? It could just be PC troubles as she says. No need to be so suspicious of people, especially this early into voting.

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 04:34 AM
Rinoa


I've been suspicious of her for two days. I'm open to discussion, I just like to get votes out there because that's the way I'm used to playing.

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-23-2008, 04:44 AM
Edge:


I suppose I can respect your opinion, though I like to get thick into discussion before I vote.

[M] Apollo
01-23-2008, 05:15 AM
Ramza:


The Ramza is positive that the Prostitute is a role in this game of Mafia. The reason being is because of The Ramza's special Role. The Ramza holds the Role of Jail Keeper. The Ramza can lock up one person each night.
This person cannot be night killed, but they also cannot carry out any night actions of their own.

The Ramza, on the previous night, locked up Barret. However Barret was killed last night, even though he was The Ramza's target. Since the Ramza locked him up, this means he could not have used his Role Block ability on the Ramza.

Then what happened? Thanks to Bahamut confirming what the Prostitute was, it is safe to Assume that the Ramza was Role blocked by the Prostitute last night.

Now, on to other matter, on night one and two, the Ramza locked up the same person. The Ramza does not want to reveal this person for a few reasons, but if you have a night ability, and you were unable to use it on nights one and two, feel free to come forward and say who you are.

This means, however, that there would be no Bomb or Nexus in this game.

The Ramza's final Idea for the day, is that who would want to Role Block The Ramza? Since Barret couldn't have Role Blocked unless I was Role Blocked by another, it is Likely that one of the people who have been against The Ramza are the Prostitute. The Ramza can think of Quina and Fran at the moment. There were likely others that the Ramza will shortly adress.


Translation:

1) I locked up the same person night 1 and 2. For now, I will not reveal that person. However, if I was also role blocked night 1 or 2, you would have gotten an action in. Though I don't think they had reason to role block me until night 2,

2) Barret was locked up the night he was killed, meaning I had to have been role Blocked. This confirms the existence of a Prostitute. That means no Bomb or Nexus.

3) The one who Role Blocked me is likely someone who has been showing resilience to me the past 2 days. So I think we should look to those people for now.

Edit: The three most noteable anti-me people were Fran, Quina, and I"m going to say Rinoa, simply for saying I was an idiot and tried to discredit any Idea I had.

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-23-2008, 05:38 AM
Fran:


Well isn't that just lovely. I go after Barret and he dies during the night and is revealed to be a Citizen!

So here's what must have happened. I'm an awfully stupid Mafia member so I figure that no one will notice if I killed the person I targeted the most during the day. Or maybe I just decided to kill a fellow Mafia member. Yes, of course, that's what happened!

If y'all can't see that the killing of Barret is an obvious effort to put suspicion on those who voted for him, IE: ME!, you are blind.

I didn't do myself any favors if I'm Mafia and killed Barret OR Auron. I wasn't responsible for any deaths. If you think I was, then that means I'm an idiot player.

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-23-2008, 05:44 AM
Edge:


Wait, if that means YOU'RE an idiot player that we THINK you're the cause of deaths, would that mean we're right and the entire first half of your post was actually part of your ploy to trick us?

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 05:47 AM
Rinoa


I also think there is a prostitute. Jail keeper is an interesting role. But that would mean there are 3 roleblocking roles. I guess that makes sense considering everyone has an ability. Lots of roleblocking offsets it. Clever!

I think today we should consider two things. There are two groups we now KNOW are out there: Mason and Mafia.

Cyan was a confirmed Mason. I now have an educated guess as to who the other Masons are. But I don't know for certain. I'm not one of them, that's all I know.

Auron was a confirmed Mafia. Unfortunately, he didn't make many posts, which leaves us little to go on. See how tricky it is when Mafia doesn't post?

I encourage you all to look over posts made by Cyan and Auron. Who did they defend? Who argued against them? From there we can get clues on to who was with them and possibly against them.

Obviously my current vote doesn't do that. Freya and Basch, to me, are the last unconfirmed inactive people, and I'd rather just see them gone than lurking in the shadows until the very end. For some reason Basch's excuses strike me as more believable than Freya's. I will retract my vote in good faith that the other town members will look at the posts of people confirmed to be a part of groups, as well as other things that have been going on.

But please consider the inactive people in the list of your suspects. Consider it, that is all I ask. I am not just saying this just because I am on a mission for an active game, though that is part of it.

<b>##Unvote: Freya</b>

[M] Apollo
01-23-2008, 06:20 AM
Ramza:



Bahamut;2403733']As the town was in shock, a note was found stating that one of the following three roles was in play.

Cult Leader
Insane Cop
Jester

Day 2 has begun. With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is set for 6PM GMT on Sunday, 20th January. 24 hours. Go.
From this The Ramza has some more info to add.

With 2 anti town factions already known, The Lovers and Mafia, The Ramza thinks a Cult Leader can be ruled out.

That leaves 2 roles up for play from our initial list, Insane Cop and Jester.

The Ramza hates to admit this, but The Jester looks more like a possobility.

However, The Ramza now thinks Cops need to pay closer attention to their investigations. If you came up Innocent on Auron, then you are probably insane.

If you came up Guilty on either Lulu or Irvine, there is a good chance you are insane. The Ramza is not sure if cop investigation would work on Lovers, as different types of factions are known for different kinds of people who can investigate them. (IE: FBI Agent to Serial Killer, Seer to Werewolf).

The Ramza is sure he doesn't have to mention this to the cops, but if the Cops are fairly new to this game, it might be a good time for The Ramza to warn them.

Really most of the The Ramza thinks is fairly obvious to be honest, but it hasn't been said yet, so The Ramza was getting worried.

Translation

1) It is not likely there is a Cult, as two other anti-town factions have been found.

2) Just giving the Cops a warning to watch closely who they targeted to figure out if they are insane or not.

3) Since Lovers aren't Mafia, it is possible a normal cop investigation would turn up innocent, so there is a good chance of insanity if they came up with a guilty on Irvine or Lulu.

4) Nothing to major in this post, just mentioning a few things that should be somewhat obvious, since no one else mentioned them.

[M] Adama
01-23-2008, 02:37 PM
Freya:


About my first post, I just voted for reasons that other people had already stated concerning his post. Yes, one of them was Auron (I think). I didn't put too much thought into it, I mean I was either bandwagoning or starting it, and after reading everyone else's posts, Vivi made the most sense to me. Anyway, time to vote.

Let's take a look at this post of Auron's.


Auron;2406079']Players who are still inactive: Freya, Mog, Vivi.

Freya's only post:

Freya;2403135']I think I will trust Ingus and Edgar for this round. If either of them are mafia, it will become clear to us sometime in the game.

Vivi;2402576']Lets get this over with.

##Vote: Edge


I really, really, do not like this post.

##Vote: Vivi

Freya had a similar mindset as I did in the beginning about the Ingus/Edgar thing. Like I said before, Edgar is not as dodgy-looking to me now but that's still under investigation. Maybe Ingus just tried to pick a fight with someone and avoid being lynched to insure that he would be targetted during the night. Whether he was trying to aid the Mafia by joining them or aid the town by getting himself killed by someone else to prevent a Mafia recruitment is up in the air. That could be a reason that he acted so crazy. But back to Freya. She voted for Vivi but only because she really didn't like his post. Not having a logical explanation for voting is an easy way to get a group of lynchers after you.

Mog's three posts:


Mog;2402494']Well, this should be exciting! Who should we lynch first, kupo?


Mog;2402969']Wow, we sure have some active players this time. That makes it fun, but also a pain when I leave for short amounts of time. In any case, I really haven't come to a conclusion from everyone's bickering, and first day lynching's are silly anyway. But, since I know I've seen this happen once before...
##Vote: Aeris


Mog;2404185']I'd love to see what Lulu has to say.

The first one I'm willing to throw out. Just a little bit of spam introduction. The second one is much juicier. Mog mentions not coming to a conclusion but happens to decide on Aeris. He is the only one to do so on Day 1, playing on his thoughts of usually seeing someone innocent go down first day because of random voting. I remember Cyan pretty adamantly defending Aeris at one time. Cyan was a Mason, an awesome ally for the town. I'm mostly sold that Aeris is an innocent. Lastly, Mog posts on Day 2 but does not vote.

Vivi's four posts:


Vivi;2402562']what up?
EDIT: I take it I'm not good enough for a big M.


Vivi;2402576']Lets get this over with.
##Vote: Edge


Vivi;2402600']Everyone has to vote for someone, I just took a stab in the dark. I really don't think it makes a big difference.


Vivi;2402609']That's why I said I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference.

First post, same as Mog. Intro spam. Second post, the one that made me suspect him. The voting had already started but he enters the fray by throwing in a random name without a reason. Third post, "everyone has to vote for someone" rule seems to not apply since a lot of people missed votes on Day 2. Lastly, he points out that he doesn't think it makes a big difference who he votes for at that early stage. There were still 20 hours left on Day 1, so I can understand what he may have meant. However, he never came back to change his vote AND has yet to come back at all.

I think it's entirely possible that all the mafia are just biding their time and letting us pin the blame on ourselves. In my opinion, it's insane that Day 3 is almost over and we only have half the possible votes in.

After looking at the inactives more carefully, I'm now going to have to say I also think Mog is more likely to be mafia for reasons stated above.

##Unvote: Vivi
##Vote: Mog

Edit: And there's Freya. And I almost put this under my real account ahhh.

Here he named Mog, Vivi, and myself as prime suspects. I think we can assume that at least one of them is mafia. Mog has been a confirmed citizen, so we can knock him off the list. I know I'm not mafia, so for me that would leave Vivi.

Auron has spoken out against Vivi a lot, while Vivi hasn't said much at all. How very convenient if they were both mafia. If one of them were found to be mafia, the other would appear much less suspicious. Note how Auron changes his vote from Vivi to Mog.

##Vote: Vivi

[M] Felix
01-23-2008, 02:57 PM
Quina:



Ramza;2406782']3) Since Lovers aren't Mafia, it is possible a normal cop investigation would turn up innocent, so there is a good chance of insanity if they came up with a guilty on Irvine or Lulu.

You don't have to be mafia to come up guilty. You just have to be guilty. That's anyone who is anti town. ie; the Lovers.

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 05:24 PM
Rinoa


Auron voted for Vivi the very first day, before most of the day's activities had happened. It really doesn't make any sense for mafia to vote for one of their own that early. Even as a strategy it is risky. I will not rule out that this strategy was employed, I'm just not going for it today.

The other thing Vivi has going for him is that he was defended by Cyan, a Mason. Vivi hasn't done much, it's true, but when he has been targeted by a mafia (more than once) and defended by a Mason, it is hard to get me to go after him at this time.

If you go with what's obvious, Vivi is not mafia. If you go with the fact that mafia is trying to play tricks, then Vivi is mafia. At this stage I think it is unwise to try to figure out any complicated strategy the mafia might have. That can be done later when more evidence is available.


Rinoa;2405386']
Cyan;2403159']This my suspicions for Freya, Faris, Auron and Terra.
This is one of Cyan's last messages. I am quoting it again. It is highly unlikely she would name her fellow Masons in the suspect list. Two are dead. Faris, at this point, doesn't raise my suspicion. Freya is the only one left. Does this quote prove Freya or Faris are dirty? No, but I think it does prove they aren't Masons. Today, I would much rather vote for someone who is not a Mason than someone who might be. <b>If the Masons stay intact the Town will win the game.</b> They are a HUGE advantage for us.

Freya, you need more than just 'Check out this complicated strategy I think the mafia is pulling' to get out of my vote today. To me, that is more mafia than anything Vivi has done.

<b>##Vote: Freya</b>

until she gives me a better reason not to vote for her, or someone else provides some other evidence.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-23-2008, 07:59 PM
Cid


Yup, Cids beard also agrees that makes Freya look a bit suspicious. She pointed out herself that one of Aurons three main suspects were probably Mafia, and considering that I am fairly certain that Vivi is innocent, I don't know how much being defended by a mason proves, sure, there is a chance that he knew Vivi was innocent, but there is no solid evidence on that.

The main reason Vivi looks innocent is because Auron voted for him twice without much justification and voted for him rapidly. There is a possibility that Freya is correct in saying that may have been a ploy to get suspicion off of a fellow Mafioso, but as of right now Cids beard is suspicious of Freya.

Come on people, post!

[M] Gaius
01-23-2008, 08:02 PM
Edgar:


I've read over the posts once more, and I don't even know how to react. Anyone I suspected is dead, or now has evidence to the contray.

Maybe I need to try and rethink everything and look at this from a completely different angle. Hopefully I'll be able to get something to add.

[M] Athena
01-23-2008, 08:11 PM
Vivi:


oh dear, I honesty thought Auron was a genuine townie :/

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 08:14 PM
Rinoa


Yep, can't get them all right Vivi. Would you care to post anything helpful, though?

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
01-23-2008, 08:24 PM
Faris:


I'll be heading to work in a few so I dunno if I'll make it back on before the time limit, so I'll vote now just so I get a vote in.

##Vote: Fran

I've always had some level of suspicion with her, but I've never been able to get much out of it as there was always more suspects higher on my list. But her last post really seems off to me. A lot of what she said was obvious, it seems almost like she wanted us to think the death of Barret was to put blame on her. If it's a mafia tactic then I say it's a fairly weak one cause I don't buy it. If she didn't post pointing all this out screaming "I'm a suspect cause he died" then I wouldn't of given it a second thought, but the way she decided to bring to light bothers me.

[M] Apollo
01-23-2008, 08:39 PM
Well, thats good enough for The Ramza.

##Vote: Fran

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-23-2008, 08:41 PM
Cid


That was strange, I am not sure if I have ever seen such a short band wagon post from The Ramza! Cids beard is afraid of this strange new world...

[M] Apollo
01-23-2008, 08:51 PM
Ramza:


Um, Cid, The Ramza has already called out Fran before Farris mentioned her. Her, along with Quina. The fact The Ramza is not the only one who suspects Fran gave me reason enough to vote her.

And The Ramza has already stated why he is suspicious of Fran, no need to restate.

And also,

Quina;2406984']
Ramza;2406782']3) Since Lovers aren't Mafia, it is possible a normal cop investigation would turn up innocent, so there is a good chance of insanity if they came up with a guilty on Irvine or Lulu.

You don't have to be mafia to come up guilty. You just have to be guilty. That's anyone who is anti town. ie; the Lovers.
With roles like FBI agent, who is made soley for finding a Serial Killer, The Ramza is not entirely sure if a cop would turn up guilty against lovers. Again, The Ramza could be wrong, but the Lovers are an entirely knew faction all together, so The Ramza is not one to say for sure if that is the case.

Translation:
1) I already suspected Fran and said why, so there was no need to eplain agian in that post. Faris voting just confirms that I wasn't the only one suspicious. That gave me enough reason to cast a vote.

2) To Quina, since Serial Killer has a specific role that can hunt them down, the FBI agent, it leads me to think Psy may have made a role like that for the Lovers. They may turn up guilty on cop investigation, but since we know virtually nothing of it, I dont' think it's safe to assume such things.

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 09:07 PM
Rinoa


Fran and The Ramza don't get along. I have some theories on what she's up to, but I'd like to see this play out a little first. As of right now I still maintain that Freya is a bigger threat than she is.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-23-2008, 09:49 PM
Cid


I agree with Rinoa as of right now, though I am suspicious of Fran I think that Rinoa is right in saying that Freya is a bigger suspect right now.

##Vote: Freya

[M] Gaius
01-23-2008, 09:49 PM
Edgar:


At the moment Freya seems like the biggest suspect I have, because of her vote. After last night's killings Vivi seems to be the hardest to call a citizen out of all of the inactive members. A mason didn't suspect him (now we've seen masons aren't always right, but they have a collective voice of townies in them so they are more trustworthy in opinions), and Auron suspected him.
Why would you vote for someone like that? Because she's hid most of the game, and wants to try and deverte our attention. I just don't buy this vote of her's.

Now Fran seems like she could be a suspect, but at the same time I feel like I don't have enough on her. From my view she looks like a player who just gets too emotionally involved in the game. The biggest thing going against her is she suspected and voted against Barret, but seeing as that could be said for most players in this game. Thats not enough for me yet.
Now, I'll be going in about a soon, and I should be gone for a while, so I'm going to submit a vote just in case I miss the rest of the day.

## Vote: Freya

[M] Athena
01-23-2008, 09:59 PM
Vivi:


It seems that Freya has got some stuff against me and is pointing a finger in my direction, possibly trying to hide against a certain fact.

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 10:47 PM
Rinoa


What fact? Maybe you should post more than one sentence at a time.

[M] Adama
01-23-2008, 10:58 PM
Freya:


I'll do whatever I can to take suspicion off myself.

I am a Mafia Wannabe Usurper.
I have a one time only night kill, and if I kill the Godfather I take his place. If I miss I'm a townie.
I killed Auron. Not the guy I was looking for, but I wiped out some scum anyway :spin:

Oh and if you're a cop, don't investigate me, I will tell you now, I'll come up guilty.

[M] Ron - Cop Dad
01-23-2008, 11:00 PM
Basch:


alright then, im read up

I think Fran is a townie, and her reaction is real, because thats how i would react, but then again.. im a nub :p

hmmm.. i dont see anyone breaking out of the pack here. the only one that seems suspisious is Freya.. and only because her role is just ridiculous.

ill vote for her now, and if someone confirms that the role is used then i'll revote

##Vote: Freya

[M] Athena
01-23-2008, 11:05 PM
Vivi:


The question is, can everybody trust Freya?

EDIT: Hi Basch.

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-23-2008, 11:12 PM
Aeris:


Well... I don't see why anyone would claim to be mafia, unless they're a Jester. I guess Freya will have to be my vote, since if they're Mafia - good riddance to them. Darned scum.

Although, the first sentence confuses me - to take suspicion off themselves? I'm pretty sure admitting to being Mafia would just confirm supicions and get you lynched.

[M] Apollo
01-23-2008, 11:13 PM
Ramza:



Freya;2407382']I'll do whatever I can to take suspicion off myself.

I am a Mafia Wannabe Usurper.
I have a one time only night kill, and if I kill the Godfather I take his place. If I miss I'm a townie.
I killed Auron. Not the guy I was looking for, but I wiped out some scum anyway :spin:

Oh and if you're a cop, don't investigate me, I will tell you now, I'll come up guilty.

Wow. Just Wow.

The Ramza doesn't know how to take this.

[M] Ron - Cop Dad
01-23-2008, 11:13 PM
Basch:


Hi vivi, i like your magic :)

edit: The Basch doesnt know either

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 11:14 PM
Rinoa


Hahaha, that's great. Now we're gettin somewhere. I toally believe that Psy would put that role in the game. Are you it? That's now for us to figure out.

I want to believe you. It would confirm some things I thought about you. But I have some questions that I hope you will answer.

1. Why did you choose to use your kill at all? Why not just stay a Townie?
2. Why did you choose to use your kill last night?
3. What made you think Auron was the Godfather?

[M] Adama
01-23-2008, 11:15 PM
Freya:




Were you listening? I didn't say I was mafia!

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 11:19 PM
Rinoa


Let me clear this up with Aeris: If she is telling the truth, then her one bullet missed and, once that happened, she became town. Though why she would still check Scum is beyond me.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
01-23-2008, 11:19 PM
Cid



Rinoa;2407403']Hahaha, that's great. Now we're gettin somewhere. I toally believe that Psy would put that role in the game. Are you it? That's now for us to figure out.

I want to believe you. It would confirm some things I thought about you. But I have some questions that I hope you will answer.

1. Why did you choose to use your kill at all? Why not just stay a Townie?
2. Why did you choose to use your kill last night?
3. What made you think Auron was the Godfather?

Yah, I want to know as well. That is a very very odd way to defend yourself if its not true, so me nor my beard are sure on how to take this news... I am scared and slightly confused...

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-23-2008, 11:21 PM
Aeris:


I apologise. I misread your post. It's just such a convoluted role, I got confused. :p So, I withdrew my vote for now.

[M] Aaron
01-23-2008, 11:22 PM
Firion


Whoa freya, a role claim. How much time do we have left on this day? I don't have much time to pay too much attention right now. So If you could put the vote stats up and the time that'd be great. Then I'd know if I need to vote soon or if I have time to put together some stuff.

[M] Athena
01-23-2008, 11:23 PM
Vivi:


yoo hoo Bahamut :p

[M] Adama
01-23-2008, 11:27 PM
Freya:




I wanted to take care of it quickly in case I hit the GF. I have a habit of throwing suspicion on myself early in the game. Auron just screamed mafia.

Please keep in mind I am on a handheld device, so my posts take time to type.

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 11:34 PM
Rinoa


Part of me wants to let Freya off, because it would either keep a citizen alive or give someone credit for a really good roleclaim.

Another part wants me to lynch just so we can confirm what she is. If she's telling the truth it would confirm that there is a Godfather, and we'd lose a townie with an ability that no longer can help us. If she's lying then we're down another mafia.

What do you guys think?

[M] Mom – Host
01-23-2008, 11:36 PM
Bahamut:


I think you want a...

Votecount

Freya(4): <STRIKE>Rinoa</STRIKE>, Rinoa, Cid, Edgar, Basch

Fran(2): Faris, Ramza


Vivi(1): Freya


Remember, it takes 7 votes to lynch. You have 4 hours left until nightfall.

You saw no error.

[M] Aaron
01-23-2008, 11:37 PM
Firion


I only recall there being a mafia usurper but a wannabe thing isn't so far fetched in this game. Yet I do recall the normal usurper being a mafia member. And the wannabe thing seems to more of apply to the one shot thing. So then I question how you wouldn't know but then, yet again, the wannabe thing could be the not knowing.

I will get back to this later though I don't have the time now.

[M] Athena
01-23-2008, 11:38 PM
Vivi:


Freya should have 4 votes there I think.

[M] Caprica
01-23-2008, 11:41 PM
Rinoa


Hey Vivi, why don't you ever vote?

[M] Athena
01-23-2008, 11:43 PM
Vivi:


##Vote: Freya

Happy now?

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-23-2008, 11:53 PM
Aeris:


My main concern here is that this is all and elaborate ruse. That Freya wants us to think that they're townies, when really they're Mafia.

The role is convoluted enough that this could be the case.

[M] Adama
01-23-2008, 11:58 PM
Freya:




How could this possibly benefit me if I were mafia?

[M] Caprica
01-24-2008, 12:07 AM
Rinoa


Freya's real problem is there is no way to confirm that she is town other than lynching her. I can't think of an investigative role that could distinguish her from real mafia.

But if we don't lynch her then who do we go for? Vivi is acting like a little butt, but I really can't fathom that Aruon & the mafia would set up an elaborate scheme like that so early in the game. Fran was getting chastized for one post and I'd like to hear more from her before I go after her. Basch has been laying pretty low, so he's a possiblity, but I'm willing to give him a chance to be active some.

EDIT: Uh, if you're mafia, and we believe you and don't lynch you, then you live, which would greatly benefit you, no?

[M] Adama
01-24-2008, 12:13 AM
Freya:




Good point :eep:

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-24-2008, 12:18 AM
Aeris:




If you are mafia, then this role claim could keep you alive a bit longer, since we don't know if you actually are a townie or not - the confusion this causes may be enough to keep you alive another night, which is what the mafia want.

As Rinoa said, there is no way to know if you are telling the truth with this claim, and the only way to find out the truth is to lynch you.

EDIT: Too slow with the reply here. :( Rinoa got the same reply in but with less words!

[M] Caprica
01-24-2008, 12:22 AM
Rinoa


Let's say we don't vote for Freya, who would you guys vote for? Since we'll need to kill someone tomorrow this is not a futile discussion.

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-24-2008, 12:30 AM
Fran:



Faris;2407208']If she didn't post pointing all this out screaming "I'm a suspect cause he died" then I wouldn't of given it a second thought, but the way she decided to bring to light bothers me.

What? Why wouldn't you have given a second thought? You SHOULD suspect me, just like you should suspect everyone in this game. But because I make a post, analyzing what I think happened during the night, that makes you suspicious? If I had said nothing, you "wouldn't of given it a second thought"? I already assume that people are gonna be suspicious of me cause I actually make posts. But I also expect suspicions to be kinda rational. Your reason for being suspicious of me is really weird in my opinion. Not that everyone always has to have a solid, logical explanation, but still. It should kinda make sense at least.

Anyway, Freya, omgwtf? :p That... is one of the weirdest roleclaims, EVER.

But let's assume that it's true. If you really are a townie now, and you are investigated, there is no way that you would still come up scum. Saying that you would just sounds like you're trying to cover your own ass. If you have now assumed a townie role because you missed out on the godfather, you are town aligned. Simple as that.

The other point is that, if you know that you only have one chance at this, why in the world would you choose Auron as your choice? Godfathers, by their very nature, have no reason to hide in the shadows. If they are investigated, they're still gonna be ok. Laying low doesn't do anything for them. So of all the people in this game, why choose Auron as your one shot at getting the godfather? Seems a bit silly to me.

Also, the night before, there were 3 kills. But the Lover-Killer role died during the night. Which means that we could have expected the number of kills to go down to 2, since we got rid of one kill group. Adding you into the mix, that means that we should have had 3 kills again (unless there was some blocking and protection going on). I don't think you were responsible for the Auron kill, I think a vigilante was.

[M] Adama
01-24-2008, 12:30 AM
Freya:




So I'm screwed?

[M] Adama
01-24-2008, 12:37 AM
Freya:


You'd better make the most of this if I die n.n

[M] Trevor - Gay Dad
01-24-2008, 12:38 AM
Fran:


Well if you're not gonna give reasons explaining yourself, then yeah. :p


##Vote: Freya

[M] Adama
01-24-2008, 12:40 AM
Freya:


I've explained all I can.

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-24-2008, 12:40 AM
Aeris:


[M] Aeris
[M] Basch
[M] Cid
[M] Edgar
[M] Edge
[M] Faris
[M] Firion
[M] Fran
[M] Freya
[M] Quina
[M] Ramza
[M] Rinoa
[M] Vivi

These are the roles left in play. Might be useful to have this just so we know who our possible suspects are.

But even looking at the list... I have no strong suspicions against anyone. I guess maybe Basch, but that's just because they've been inactive a lot. Right now I'm at a bit of a loss of who to vote for. :/




Also, Fran, in Freya's post, it was stated that it was a one shot thing. So, if it were real, it would only be this turn.

Although, that makes me think - if there were two kills this turn, including Freya's kill, we'd assume that the other kill was performed by the mafia. However, the other night, there were three kills - one by the mafia, one by the killer (we assume) and one by an unknown other. This other couldn't have been Freya - as they themselves said it was a one time shot.
So, if Freya's hit was included last night, then shouldn't there have also been three kills last night - Freya's, Mafia's and Unknown Other's?

Sorry if that made no sense, I struggle to bring my thoughts together into coherent sentences. Also, I apologise if this assumes a lot. :)

[M] Adama
01-24-2008, 12:46 AM
Freya:


I think maybe there are other odd roles like mine.

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-24-2008, 12:48 AM
Aeris:


Yeah, as soon as I posted, I realised that there a lot of holes in what I just said. :p

[M] Gaius
01-24-2008, 12:56 AM
Edgar:


Freya, that is the crapiest role claim I have EVER heard. I don't believe it at all. My vote stands.

[M] Adama
01-24-2008, 01:02 AM
Freya:


You kidding? This is the best role ever!

[M] Greg - Hot Dad
01-24-2008, 01:19 AM
Aeris:


Unfortunately, I am going to bed now, so I've got to make a vote.

So, it's just gonna have to be

##Vote: Freya

This whole crazy role claim is just... crazy, for lack of a better word. There's nobody else who really sticks out to me as possible Mafia, besides you. I don't think the role claim had the desired effect of making you seem innocent in other's eyes. This all just seems so fabricated, just to get you off the 'guilty' hook - a last minute attempt to save yourself. But then, I could be wrong here. :p

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-24-2008, 01:19 AM
Edge:


What's your role? The Pie Baker? :p

My suspicions are tied within myself, I'd say. I'll have to look at more to decide my vote.

[M] Adama
01-24-2008, 01:20 AM
Freya:




Hey, don't just leave me here to die!

[M] Al - Biker Dad
01-24-2008, 01:43 AM
Edge:


This is a tough decision here. If anyone wishes to know, my vote is stuck between Fran and Rinoa. Rinoa's role in the game seems to be similar to what Auron's once was. She's a main player, and she's using the best of logic in the game to help her surrounding players. Trust is control, and control is Mafia. I have my doubts. Though perhaps I'm just being paranoid. Being good at Mafia doesn't mean you are one. Mog is more suspicious, I'd say, due to his inactivity and seemingly hiding himself. But this could just be something such as lack of interest in the game or some other thing I.R.L. keeping him. But then there's Fran, who is another big player, even with a lack of posts in comparison to others. She isn't massively trusted, having two votes so far towards her. I don't have enough evidence to vote for her either, however...


:monster:

[M] Mom – Host
01-24-2008, 01:43 AM
Bahamut:


As the sun began to set, there was a cry amoung the remaining townspeople. "Lynch! Lynch! Lynch!" Everyone rushed around, and just when the mob was begining to die down, Freya tripped.

"Lynch her!" A cry came out of the mob. Before Freya could evn speak, she was dragged to the gallows and never spoke again.

Freya was in fact a Mafia Wannabe Usurper, played by Jessweeee♪<!-- google_ad_section_end --> & Death by Moogles.

It is now night 4, you have 24 hours to submit all night choices.