Does a Laptop need its battery?

[Nominus Experse]

So I bought a laptop from a Pawn Shop, and it happens to be missing its battery. However, it has the power cord, so I can still turn it on and such. I'm trying to install a clean install of Windows XP on the laptop, but I keep getting a message basically saying that I don't have any hard drives, or if I do, they aren't connected.

The thing is, I have a hard drive, and it is connected (I broke into the computer and checked).

So why the message?

[Namelessfengir]

take it back and complain laptops are supposed to have a battery and you totally call them on the hard drive issue make them fix it and install it them selves

[Nominus Experse]

It was cheap for those very reasons. I ask here because I am sure there is a method of solving this.

[Flying Mullet]

Do laptops need a battery to run? No, they don't. One of my old work laptops had a bum battery that couldn't hold a charge, so it basically was a desktop. Now as far as the hardware being in place, that I'm not sure about. I know I've started up my laptop without the battery installed when I was trying to determine if the battery was shot, but I don't know if there has to be a battery connected, good or bad, for you to install the OS.

Have you tried checking on eBay for a used battery?

[Namelessfengir]

okay .... the battery can fly you can buy on off of ebay or the manufacturer

but the harddrive .... was there a problem with it when you bought it? i mean did it have an os was it working? you can pull the hard drive and then drop it back in, it might have been loose. if that dont work take it back because they sold you a glorified paper weight

dont know how much this helps but its all i got to say

[Tasura]

take it back and complain laptops are supposed to have a battery and you totally call them on the hard drive issue make them fix it and install it them selves

He bought it at a Pawn shop, they don't give a rat's ass whether something works or not.

And as for the harddrive issue, I've no other idea then what's already been said.

[Mirage]

Most laptops work fine without their batteries. Some don't, it depends on how they're wired back there. However, this should not affect anything else in any way. If you manage to turn it on without the battery, it shouldn't affect the hard drive at all.

If you want to check the hard disk, flip it upside down and look for a slot fastened with a few screws. There should be about 2-3 of them, one for the hard disk, one for the RAM chips, and maybe one more for some other skulls. I can't tell you which one is gonna be the right one, so you just gotta go for trial and error to find out. When you find the drive, you should be able to tell if the cords are plugged in correctly. If a hard drive isn't present at all, fear not, because they're real cheap these days. You should be able to find a retail 40 GB 2.5" hard disk for like 30 bucks, or 120 for $50.

-edit-
I didn't see the part about you opening it and checking it at first. If that's the case, it might be the hard drive itself that's broken. If you know anyone with a laptop, you can ask them if they'll let you test your hard disk in their laptop, just to see if it works for them. If it doesn't, it's likely that the hard disk is faulty and you'll need a new one. If it does work, it's likely to be a more serious problem, and I can't really help you. Testing your hard disk in a different laptop will not ruin any of the data stored on the laptop that was originally in the other laptop.

[o_O]

I think it's likely to be the hard drive, the IDE (maybe SATA but not likely :p) cable connecting it to the motherboard or the IDE/SATA controller on the motherboard. The drive and the cable can be replaced but if it's the controller on the motherboard, you'd have to replace the entire motherboard, and it's probably not worth it. :p

You also might want to check that the hard drive isn't incorrectly slaved to the CD drive (if it is IDE) or something like that.

[Mirage]

I don't see how that could have been done by accident though...

[o_O]

Who says it needed to be done accidentally? :p

A laptop bought from a pawn shop could have been subjected to anything. My best guess is that the parts are just worn out. :p

[Nominus Experse]

Well, I've been browsing hp.com and I came across this page: Intel SATA AHCI Controller Driver  (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericSoftwareDownloadIndex?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&softwareitem=ob-39535-1&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN)

This looks to be what I need, but I don't have a floppy drive, and so I can't use this. Would there be any possible way in having this search for a USB Flash Drive instead?

[o_O]

It's possible that it will work. Try downloading the executable and running it to see if it is capable of putting stuff on a floppy. It may even just create a directory tree for copying. In that case it should work.

EDIT: Ok, I tried it and it won't write to my microSD (or any of my flash cards), so you're out of luck with your flash drive, I'm afraid.

EDIT2: Ok, so if you run the installer, it does two things: decompresses a batch file to a directory of your specification, and then runs the batch file. Of course, if you don't have a floppy in the drive the batch file fails and the installer deletes it, so that ostensibly there were no files extracted.

What you can actually do though, is use WinRAR or another archiving tool to extract the batch (F6flpy32.exe) from the installer (sp32478.exe), and then use it again to extract a disk image (temp.IMA) from the batch file. I will investigate whether or not you can image a usb drive with temp.IMA, brb. :p

[Nominus Experse]

Face, I fucking love you, whether this works or not.

[crono_logical]

Ah, a SATA driver, they make for fun for installing XP :D

If you have a proper XP installation CD (or burnable image of, or the installation files on HD somewhere), and the right SATA driver, you can download nLite (http://www.nliteos.com/) to rebuild the CD to reburn with the SATA driver built in, so you don't need a floppy drive in the laptop to provide the drivers on.

Use nLite to build a new XP CD image with the drivers included - should be straightforward since the software's essentially wizard-based, burn the new CD, then use that CD to install XP to the laptop without any driver hassle :p Personally I'd keep that CD somewhere safe then in case you need to repeat with the same laptop :p


If you have any problems getting the drivers out of that .exe, I can upload them for you since I've managed to extract them via virtual-machine/virtual-floppy-drive :p


EDIT: Face obviously found a quicker way to extract them faster :p

[o_O]

:D

There is a way to do it, fortunately. I found this method, while looking for a way to extract the drivers from the IMA image file. :p

You'll need <a href="http://www.magiciso.com/download.htm">MagicISO</a>, <a href="http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enhancements/nLite.shtml">this (freeware) application</a> and your Windows CD. nLite is a slipstreamer, that is, a utility to remove unwanted and add desired components to a Windows CD ISO image.

Here's what to do:
First, download and install <a href="http://www.magiciso.com/download.htm">MagicISO</a>. I'm not sure what limitations the free version has, but I'm sure you're smart enough to make it work for you. ;) You need to use MagicISO to extract the files from temp.IMA, and put them somewhere you know the location of.

Then you need to rip your Windows disc to ISO (if that's not how it started out ;)). I think MagicISO can probably do it, but there are a million tools out there to rip discs; you probably have one.

Then you need to open up nLite and slipstream the drivers extracted from temp.IMA into the Windows ISO image. <a href="http://news.softpedia.com/news/Install-Windows-XP-On-SATA-Without-a-Floppy-F6-47807.shtml">Here</a> is a general guide to using nLite.

Then burn your ISO to disc, and run it as a normal Windows installation, and it should work if those drivers are indeed the solution to your problem. :p

One other thing: When you busted open the laptop, did you notice whether it had a SATA or IDE drive? SATA drives use thin, red cables, IDEs use fat grey ribbon cables. I ask because the drivers from HP above are definitely SATA drivers. :p

EDIT: Beaten. xD
I had extracted the executable files, but not the files from the image. :p
Also Nom - It would be much faster just to nick the drivers off of clout than to download MagicISO. :p

[crono_logical]

here thar be drivers :p

Also, you don't need to rip the XP CD for nLite if you don't want to, it can read the files straight off the CD in the drive and copy to HD temporarily as part of the wizard :p

[Mirage]

Well, if it's a SATA disk, it clears things up. Somehow,I was getting the impression that the laptop you got was too old to have SATA.

[Yamaneko]

Check the BIOS first, you might be able to run your disk in compatibility mode and avoid slipstreaming the drivers. Then you just manually run the .exe or .bat, reboot using AHCI or whatever and update the driver through Device Manager.

[o_O]

Well, if it's a SATA disk, it clears things up. Somehow,I was getting the impression that the laptop you got was too old to have SATA.

That's the impression I got too, which is why I'm thinking that anything in this thread still might not work. :p

Realistically though, if the laptop is 4 years old, it's still reasonably likely to have SATA.

[Nominus Experse]

The laptop is relatively new (less than a year old).
And, well... nothing worked... The problem persists...

I am thinking that the USB Floppy may very well be the only option now.

Thanks all the same you guys.

[Mirage]

Well, if it's a SATA disk, it clears things up. Somehow,I was getting the impression that the laptop you got was too old to have SATA.

That's the impression I got too, which is why I'm thinking that anything in this thread still might not work. :p

Realistically though, if the laptop is 4 years old, it's still reasonably likely to have SATA.

Mine's like 3 years old and it doesn't have SATA :p. Maybe mine just sucks though D:.

[crono_logical]

My 6 year old one doesn't have SATA, whilst my 6 month old one does :D Not that that's really saying anything useful :p

[Mirage]

Stop spamming the boards, clout! *reports*

[o_O]

If you had a Linux live CD, you could use the dd tool to try imaging the USB drive. I'm not sure if it would work, but given the stage at which the floppy is meant to be recognised, I'd say there's a chance it would (if you're game :p).
<ul>
<li>Put the temp.IMA file onto the USB drive like normal</li>
<li>Download Linux CD (Ubuntu is good), burn and boot (not on the laptop)</li>
<li>Insert flash drive. It should be autodetected (Ubuntu is good like that) but if it isnt:
<ul>
<li>Open the terminal program. You can access it from the main menu on the top bar.</li>
<li>Type "ls -al /dev/disk/by-id" and note the last result that is of the form "xxxxxxx user user /dev/disk/by-id/sdXY --> /dev/sdXY".</li>
<li>That is, the "sd" with the highest number and the highest letter.</li>
<li>While you're at it, note down all results that point to a "/dev/sdXY" device.</li>
<li>Type "su -c mkdir /mnt/usb; su -c mount /dev/sdXY /mnt/usb" where XY are the letter and number of the last sd device</li>
</ul></li><li>In the terminal program (open it if you haven't) type "cp /mnt/usb/temp.IMA ~"</li>
<li>Then type "su -c rm -rf /mnt/usb/*"</li>
<li>Then type "su -c umount /dev/sdXY"</li>
<li>Then type "su -c dd if="~/temp.IMA" of="/dev/sdXY""</li>
<li>Then try to use it like it were the required floppy disk during Windows installation.</li>
<li>If you try this method, your USB drive may require reformatting, so back up everything on it first, and we can help you reformat it to restore functionality if you require it. :p</li>
</ul>

EDIT: Also, if it's a year old I'd say it almost definitely does use SATA (good).

[crono_logical]

Did he actually burn a bootable slipstreamed CD? :p

[Nominus Experse]

Did he actually burn a bootable slipstreamed CD? :p
I did.

I'll try Face's method once the download and classes have finished.

EDIT: Would be easier if I just said fuck it and used a Linux-based OS instead? I want to be able to play Alpha Centuari, Morrowind, and other "older" games, but mostly, the laptop will be used for writing and the like. Does Linux cover these areas reasonably well and solve Windows XP's stupid SATA issues (by not being an OS without SATA recognization and therefore, fail)?

[Mirage]

SATA discs weren't even around when XP was released. I put the blame on hardware manufacturers anyway, who don't let the system fall-back to a regular IDE driver in case SATA fails. I know some manufacturers do that, but not all.

[Shoeberto]

Does Linux cover these areas reasonably well and solve Windows XP's stupid SATA issues (by not being an OS without SATA recognization and therefore, fail)?
Yes and yes, it should work assuming the drive isn't dead.

[Nominus Experse]

OMFG! There are, like, 300 distributions of Linux...

Should I just use Ubuntu, since I'm downloading it for Face's method described above, or should I opt for something else?

[o_O]

I would whole-heartedly recommend Linux, but you should definitely be aware that if you aren't familiar with Unix-like operating systems then it <i>will</i> be a steep learning curve.

These days, distributions like Ubuntu are making huge strides forward in terms of hardware detection and compatibility, which has made setting up things like wireless a damn site easier, and that used to be one of the hardest and least stable things about setting up a home network.

Nonetheless, it's inevitable that you're going to have to learn to use a command line interface. Once you're comfortable with a CLI you'll find that it's far easier and faster to use than a GUI. Mice annoy me now because they take too long to point and click compared to typing out a command. For example, it's faster for me to manually connect to a wireless network using the command:
su -c 'wpa_supplicant -Dwext -iwlan0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf && iwconfig wlan0 essid [network name] && dhcpcd wlan0' than it is to start up the GUI and wait for it to automatically connect. :p

As far as games go, you have a couple of well-supported options.
- WINE: I recommend this. It's a re-implementation of Windows libraries, so it's not directly ported from Windows, but re-implementing the behaviour of the operating system. For this reason it's not an emulator (<b>W</b>ine <b>I</b>s <b>N</b>ot an <b>E</b>mulator :p). It's making a huge amount of progress towards good DirectX support, and in my opinion, moreso than it's commercial brother, Cedega.

- Cedega: This is a fork of the WINE project that split from WINE quite a few years ago. Maybe 6 or 7 years. It's commercial, so you have to pay, but the goal of the project is to tweak and fix the software specifically to play Windows games well and to provide support for them. There are great success stories with Cedega (games like Oblivion and UT2k4) but I never had a lot of success with it.

- You could also try a virtual machine running XP, however it probably won't be that successful, as DirectX support in most VM software is VERY experimental (if present at all). You also need disk space for a whole XP installation and enough RAM to run Linux, XP and whatever game you're running simultaneously.

- The other solution (and for me at the moment, most preferable) is to dual-boot Windows XP and Linux. You have two OSes on the computer, and depending on what you need to do, just boot into the relevant one. There is a "dd" method to copy a virtual Windows installation to an actual partition, similar to the method I posted above. My laptop currently quint-boots 4 types of Linux and XP. :p

You'll find that most older games will run reasonably well under Linux, but they almost invariably require some (actually usually a lot :p) tweaking, and they usually have minor inconsistencies with the game as run on Windows. Small drawing errors and artifacts usually. I've had Morrowind running mostly perfectly, and Oblivion easily playable. Check out <a href="http://www.winehq.org/">WineHQ</a> for info on WINE. The AppDB has lists of compatible software and success rate information for thousands of different apps.

If you run into difficulties running Linux, there is a <i>huge</i> amount of community support. Post problems here because there are a few total Linux geeks here who are more than willing to help. :p

EDIT: Do use Ubuntu if you decide to go for Linux. It's pretty much perfect for beginners - it eases you into CLI usage whilst maintaining an easily navigable GUI. You can install it off of the live CD after trying it out for a while. I think the thing you'll be most impressed with after installing any type of Linux is the ease of installing software.

[Yamaneko]

Use Ubuntu.

[Nominus Experse]

Well, I am now posting from my laptop, which means all has been fixed, thanks to all of you guys and ubuntu.

But being a giant Linux nublet, you are going to see a lot of questions concerning such things real soon.

[Namelessfengir]

good for you if i had any real linux experience i might have added something but i used redhat for about three weeks about 3 years ago
and that was about it