could humanity have survived?

[Marky Tee]

a thousand years of bein ravaged by sin?

perhaps yu yevon conciously only killed enogh that the species could continue but i think its possible the spirans could have became extinct because of sin
any thoughts?

[Prodigal Knight]

You have to figure when Sin showed up, humanity had already reached a point of technological and warfare advancements. At the beginning, they most likely tried to fight Sin head-on. Finding that ineffective, they switched to appeasing the beast by casting aside most of their arsenal, withholding enough to protect the people and drive Sin away from heavily populated areas. Luzzu, a member of the Crusaders, tells Tidus how they've steered Sin away from towns many times.

Chances are, next to the summoners using the Final Aeon, survival tactics didn't evolve much past simple diversions to draw Sin away from the towns. Also, Spirians learned not to gather in great numbers. Heavy populated areas such as Luca tend to draw the attention of Sin, than smaller areas like Besaid.

Now in terms of Sin making a conscious effort to limit its attacks, that is very likely up until a certain point. When Jecht became Sin, he made an effort to quell his wrath by listening to the hymn. He also made conscious decisions to show Tidus the atrocious power behind Sin. If Sin was entirely absent-minded and driven by the sole purpose of destruction from the get-go, it's likely that it wouldn't go chasing Tidus around Spira for a final confrontation nor would it try to calm itself via the hymn.

Since Sin is constantly reborn from the Final Aeon, Sin's initial actions depend upon the fayth inside. However, the longer that fayth is Sin, the more it loses its essence as depicted by Jecht's failure to hear the hymn towards the end of the story.

In short, I believe it's a combination of strategy on the people's part and the will of Sin's consciousness that has allowed for people to survive Sin's constant onslaughts.

[Big D]

Considering Sin's power, I reckon it could easily have killed everyone if it wanted to. The attack on Kilika is a good example - an effortless assault that destoyed over half the village in moments; if Sin had stuck around a moment longer, it could've obliterated the rest. To me, the most likely explanation is that it chose not to kill everyone. Humanity's not really being "punished" if it's not around to feel bad... it's like Sin's job is to keep people suffering, keep them fearful, and keep them humble and repentant.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Sin is more of an animal than a conscious being. Jecht's control of Sin is the only thing that keeps it in line during the events of the game.. It's instinct seems to be to attack large groups of humans or settlements, so it's a bit odd it never attacks Luca or Bevelle at any point. Still, it's obvious that Sin obviously didn't kill everyone in Spira at any point.

[Renmiri]

I have the most sadistic little pic I scanned from my japanese ultimania, showing how Sin keeps villages small.

http://ffproject.net/forumwiki/images/thumb/400px-Sincycle.jpg

I don't think we humans could survive a constant toil like that :(

[Tavrobel]

According to the game, apparently, it is okay for people to use Machina for recreational purposes (Blitzball).

I would imagine that Sin does not cause total destruction, as it would end the point of his existence. If Yu Yevon wants control, he's going to get it, but you can't spread your destruction completely without invalidating your own existence. Ohh yeah, the whole premise sounds Machiavellian, but it works.

Additionally, the Crusaders work the hardest to make sure Sin does not attack Luca, while Bevelle is protected for being the center of Yu Yevon's wholesome religion. For the sake of argument, I'll ignore FFX-2's "contributions" to the sociology of Spira, which more or less paints the inhabitants thereof as complete morons who wouldn't have needed Sin to kill each other off. By focusing their fire on Sin, they probably kept each other alive.

@ Renmiri, people can survive repeated catastrophes all the time. Ever heard of TEH J00Z?

[Renmiri]

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. Sounds ghastly though. Just based on the size of Zanarkand and the ruins we see, we can conclude Spira went through genocide for a millenia :(

[Anno Domini]

perhaps sin is sadistic. keep as many people alive as needed to procreate, and then kill the parents slowly [thinnk wakka and lulu]. you cant feel domiant if you killed everything to dominer over!

[Big D]

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. Sounds ghastly though. Just based on the size of Zanarkand and the ruins we see, we can conclude Spira went through genocide for a millenia :(Indeed... weren't the Spirans busy wiping themselves out with horrific weapons when Sin arose? After all, it was the destruction of Zanarkand that prompted Yu Yevon, the summoners, and the Zanarkand survivors to willingly imprison their souls to create the Aeons, Dream Zanarkand, and above all, Sin itself. perhaps sin is sadistic. keep as many people alive as needed to procreate, and then kill the parents slowly [thinnk wakka and lulu]. you cant feel domiant if you killed everything to dominer over!Well... Sin's Japanese name can apparently be translated as 'Torture', so the sadism part would certainly fit.

[Tavrobel]

Indeed... weren't the Spirans busy wiping themselves out with horrific weapons when Sin arose?

Only half of them. I suspect that the Spirans would be big fans of Calvinism.

[cally777]

As Sin is always formed around the Final Aeon, and Jecht proved that it was possible for the FA to remember something of its past, this could explain how Sin could restrain itself from destroying everything.

Otherwise its difficult to see how obvious targets like Luca and Bevelle could survive for 1000 years. The Crusaders just didn't have the fire power to stop Sin, as Operation Mi'hen proved, even with Al Bhed help. Perhaps their belief they could "divert" Sin was mistaken, and in fact it chose not to attack.

Very likely Sin was always a big fan of blitzball!

:choc::choc::choc:

[Tavrobel]

Sin is probably always a big fan of Blitzball. Jecht was a Blitzball player himself, and Ohalland was a large star.

It seems that the Crusaders could divert Sin. The primary difference between the Operation and defending the cities was ultimately, the intention of the people participating in it. Defense is all good; a necessary drive to make sure the people you love survive. Nothing wrong with that. If we treat the belief of the Crusaders in being able to divert Sin at face value (and there's no reason at that point in the game to not), then at the very least, they've had some successes. Simple psychology will show it too; if you aren't reinforced for a behavior, that behavior pattern will cease.

However, the Operation was built on offense. The Al Bhed had created a weapon that was solely for the use of destroying Sin. Little did they know this method would never work (as Maesters Kinoc and Seymour both acknowledge before the beginning of the Operation), and even though their intentions were well-being, their methods are not. Sin/Yu Yevon decides which ways Machina are allowed to be used, and in this case, a purely 100% offensive weapon is not. These weapons have been met with tragedy more than once.

[Bashini]

Yu Yevon and his followers were sick of the constant warfare between the city-states of Bevelle and Zanarkand. So they created a mystical babysitter for civilization: Sin.

Sin's purpose is not necessarily population control, but to keep large technological centers from being built, to limit the construction of new technologies (which ultimately would be used in warfare). Also Sin was Yu Yevon's revenge on the people of Bevelle. Now, to survive the rival city-state would have to worship him, and continually sacrifice their own people to him to avoid a one-way ticket to the far-plane.

Sin needed to be a being tortured between commands of Yu-Yevon and the love of its own people, its own loved ones. The whole journey of the summoner was meant to create strong emotional bonds, and to give them a fatalistic view of Spira. Sin, Yevon, Aeons, all of these things are apart of psychological warfare constructed within the mind of a being who is essentially immortal.

[Roxxas]

I never really understood how Sin managed to completely wipe out nearly everything in the beginning. Its said many times that when Sin was first born humans had weapons capable of destroying a planet. The lasers at the crusader operation almost broke through his shield. And we saw what happens when it gets blasted without the shield by the same type of laser. And these are weapons that aren't even close to a threat to the planet. Kind of would like that explained to me. As far as humanity lasting through his constant attacks I think it would have only been a matter of time till the Al'bhed made something capable of stopping Sin even with Home destroyed. Necessity is the mother of all invention and a giant flying monster killing everything on the planet is more then enough necessity for everyone. Add in the fact that almost everyone on Spira was desperate enough to try almost anything no matter the cost to kill Sin because of the fear and destruction he caused.

[Big D]

Good points, Roxxas. I think the timing of Sin's emergence is important. Sin arose after Zanarkand was nearly destroyed by Bevelle. As far as Bevelle was concerned, the war was probably over - and then, when they thought they'd won and were feeling complacent, Sin came out of nowhere and started blowing stuff up. I'd guess none of their weapons were designed to fight a giant flying or swimming monster that's as large as a city - they'd be ground weapons, made for striking troops and cities. One of the most powerful weapons, Vegnagun, was deemed so dangerous after its creation that it was sealed under Bevelle and never used. I'd guess that, by the time Bevelle thought of unleashing its doomsday weapons, it was already too late and Sin's attacks had destroyed the government and military leadership, leaving everyone and everything in a panicked tangle.

[Roogle]

I think that it is necessary to consider that each incarnation of Sin has the persona and psyche of a Final Aeon inside of it. This certainly limits the amount of destruction inflicted by the monstrocity, and it furthers the reasoning of Seymour wanting to be a Final Aeon, as he does not want to keep Sin at bay.

[cally777]

Sin needed to be a being tortured between commands of Yu-Yevon and the love of its own people, its own loved ones. The whole journey of the summoner was meant to create strong emotional bonds, and to give them a fatalistic view of Spira. Sin, Yevon, Aeons, all of these things are apart of psychological warfare constructed within the mind of a being who is essentially immortal.

A very interesting comment because it seems you are implying that not only was the pilgrimage designed to prepare a Summoner to defeat Sin (temporarily), it was also to psychologically prepare the Final Aeon (typically a Guardian) to become Sin. A being torn between destructive impulses and protective ones. This is certainly one explanation of Sin's dual nature, and why it didn't destroy everything.

:choc::choc::choc: