"Make sure when you're filming me kicking this guys ass, that you get my good side!"

[Wolf Kanno]

Its been awhile since a decent thread popped up in this forum so I thought it would be fun to start a new thread specualting on the game's combat system. I know we know very little except that is a new form of ATB, there are no random encounters, and from the looks of the very tiny tidbits of footage from the trailers that it is very cinematic. So what are your thoughts?

Please try to stay on topic...

[marysonnie]

Hmm...if it's too cinematic it's going to drive me nuts. I almost went blind from summoning Eden in FFVIII because it took ages...

One of my favorite things about FFXII was how quickly I could finish my non-boss battles. Since there are no random encounters, I wonder how linear the story will be.

[Vivisteiner]

The combat system is supposed to be super fast.

Looks interesting. There's a theory going round that time will slow down as you select your commands. So that it'll be a little matrix like.

[VeloZer0]

I've personally always been a fan of more strategic than fast battles, but if the battles are made to look really fast, yet give you time to input your moves that sounds kind of cool.

As far as cinematic goes, I don't object to cinematics on principle, I just object to long cinematic that you can't skip. On option is shorter cinematic for moves, and another is being able to skip the cinematic if you so desire (like in Crisis Core).

[Jessweeee♪]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAWAWAWAAARRGGGG I NEED A PS3!


(...and the trailer music is awesome times twelve)

[Wolf Kanno]

From what I've gathered from the trailer (though its difficult to tell considering they edited in together what appears to be at least three different version of the battle) and assuming we're not looking at a Limit Break or some other new ability; it seems to me like you will be able to implement a number of moves to create a combo a la Xenogears/Chrono Cross except magic and special commands might be able to be part of the chain instead of a being a finisher.

I feel another in-game battle without Lightening this time could verify this. I have yet to figure out how summons will work this time though.

[Bolivar]

Well the one thing that puts VII above its competitors for me was its fast-paced battles that did ATB better than its predecessors, and cinematic experience of battles, due to the camera being less static than its successors. So it looks like XIII will be just what i've been waitin for.

[Wolf Kanno]

Well the one thing that puts VII above its competitors for me was its fast-paced battles that did ATB better than its predecessors, and cinematic experience of battles, due to the camera being less static than its successors. So it looks like XIII will be just what I've been waiting for.

My only problem with the camera in VII is that when stop to implement commands its zooms the camera to the standard side view. In VII battles, it can give me a headache in boss fights cause it feels completely erratic. If they could fix this issue I would enjoy sticking to VII's camera system.:D

I unfortunately feel that "cinematic" will be like X where its scripted events when certain options are chosen but I could be wrong.

[Roogle]

I think that new technology will allow the framerate of Final Fantasy XIII to be much higher than its predecessors. This will give the appearance of faster gameplay, yet not necessarily mean that we will be rushed and forced to watch cinematics.

It might be like Final Fantasy X-2 with a stylistic touch rather than a campy touch.

[Gnostic Yevon]

I'm expecting something rather kingdom hearts like. You control the party leader and then maybe set up gambits or similar to control the rest. I'm not sure how the chaining fits in there, I only know KH and KH2 from the trailers. But the XIII system does seem to be a similar sort of action system.

[Yar]

As long as it gets awat from the ADB and closer to the ATB, I'll be happy.

I'm guessing here, but it looks like you may set a number of moves until you will reach an ATB count of zero. Then you have to wait and let the ATB refill.

I'm not appreaciating this whole "no random encounters" deal. If you don't like random encounters, please don't bitch. Go play something else.

Maybe they're looking at a system close to Chrono Trigger? Enemies are there, yet they aren't random. You can see them on the map and your battles take place right there.

[Wolf Kanno]

Outside of the Gambits and the ability to move around the field, I never really felt ADB was really different from ATB. Spells were changed around a bit to deal with AoE but otherwise it really didn't play too differently mechanically. But I guess we each have our own opinion. :D

Personally, I don't care that random encounters are gone as long as it sticks to XII's respawning rules.

[[.Pearl.]]

I am apprehensive about XIII's battle system, by the looks of the video. It looks much too fast paced and confusing; with all the weird camera angles and the maker's trying to make it seem all action-y and like a movie, it looks like it will be difficult to keep track of what all is going on, especially if you have 3 or 4 characters on the battle field at once. Just seeing the one party member (Lightning) out looked like it would take extreme awareness and tactfulness to command everything that you wanted to happen. Even FFX2 was too fast-paced for me at the first. When I played it for the first time I freaked out about how fast the battling was. But I have gotten used to it over time, so hopefully XIII's learning curve will be easy enough to get used to, regardless of its assumed rapid pace.

[Dragonsoul]

I think that Final Fantasy XII has my favorite battle system in an rpg. It was not turn based, and there were no random battles. Plus I loved the gambit system. I wish the battles gave away more loot and experience though. I hope Final Fantasy XIII takes influence in part from Final Fantasy XII. I hope there's not too many battles though.

I'm waiting for E3, where some great info from Square Enix could be announced. In addition to more footage for FF XIII, FF Agito XIII, and FF Versus XIII, here's what I'm looking forward to for possible announcements...

1. Cell, DS, or PSP port for Usa of FF VII: Before Crisis
2. Cell, DS, or PSP port for Usa of FF IV: The After
3. DS port of Final Fantasy V
4. Information their "Rapture" Mmorpg
5. Information on Final Fantasy Haeresis XIII

I hope that the battles in Final Fantasy XIII are as exciting as we saw in the trailers so far. They should feel integrated into the game like Final Fantasy XII's were, not a seperate thing like in many rpg's. Toshiro Tsuchida, the leader of Front Mission, is the battle director, I think he'll do a great job. By the way, I wonder where Hiroyuki Ito(battle director for FF XII/FF XII International Zodiac Job System) is right now? :)

Toshiro Tsuchida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiro_Tsuchida)
Hiroyuki Itō - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroyuki_Ito)

[Wolf Kanno]

To [.Pearl.], it may look intimidating right now but I'm certain it won't be too foreign, from the looks of the bottom screen it seems we've returned one again to another mutation in the ATB system. I'm less worried about XIII having a steep learning curve and more concerned it will pull another FFX with a wonderful battle system marred by lack of challenge and design choices. X has a damn good battle system in theory, I'm just sad that it only shines at the beginning and ending of the game (as well as all the optional content) and for the rest its a waste of time :rolleyes2

To Dragonsoul, I like XII system as well and though XIII has been confirmed to no longer have random encounters, the rest is still in the dark but for the most part, the XIII team has stated XIII will be more like X than XII. Still, I agree that XII did some amazing things in terms of game design and I will be sorely annoyed if XIII turns out to be "interactive movie" like X. Even then, I must say that XIII's battle system appears promising, but I would really love more info...

I love how SE said 2008 would be the year for big info about the XIII project and so far its half over and we have barely heard anything since January :mad:

[unfinished fantasy]

err what trailers are you talking about? all I saw was CGI and then more CGI. links?

[Yar]

To [.Pearl.], it may look intimidating right now but I'm certain it won't be too foreign, from the looks of the bottom screen it seems we've returned one again to another mutation in the ATB system. I'm less worried about XIII having a steep learning curve and more concerned it will pull another FFX with a wonderful battle system marred by lack of challenge and design choices. X has a damn good battle system in theory, I'm just sad that it only shines at the beginning and ending of the game (as well as all the optional content) and for the rest its a waste of time :rolleyes2

To Dragonsoul, I like XII system as well and though XIII has been confirmed to no longer have random encounters, the rest is still in the dark but for the most part, the XIII team has stated XIII will be more like X than XII. Still, I agree that XII did some amazing things in terms of game design and I will be sorely annoyed if XIII turns out to be "interactive movie" like X. Even then, I must say that XIII's battle system appears promising, but I would really love more info...

I love how SE said 2008 would be the year for big info about the XIII project and so far its half over and we have barely heard anything since January :mad:


I LOVED X's battle system. It worked beautifully. However, it also wasn't anything new. It had pretty much been the same thing in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars.

My complaint about XII's system was that it felt like the game basically played itself. I, as the player, had almost no control. You could clear dungeons by just moving the left analog stick. Bo-ring.

[Wolf Kanno]

err what trailers are you talking about? all I saw was CGI and then more CGI. links?

Gametrailers.com - Final Fantasy XIII - Dengeki Special Edition Trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/29007.html) There is a few more but SE has decided to go the route of showing the same damn trailer with 10 seconds of extra footage and announcing it as a "new" :mad:

The one I've linked to shows maybe 15 seconds of "supposed in-game battle footage" Hope this helps :)



I LOVED X's battle system. It worked beautifully. However, it also wasn't anything new. It had pretty much been the same thing in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars.

My complaint about XII's system was that it felt like the game basically played itself. I, as the player, had almost no control. You could clear dungeons by just moving the left analog stick. Bo-ring.


My problem with X's system is that its basically the ATB system put on Wait mode and they added the bar that tells you the order you and your enemies are going in. I liked it cause it allowed heavy strategy but the game lacked difficulty cause of the concept of your characters being skilled at 1-Hit-KOing specific enemies and cinematic options that practically crippled half the boss fights in the game. X wins the award for allowing random encounters to be even more tedious than other RPGs...

For XII, I noticed that for most it depends on how you approach the system, both the concept and the execution. Half seemed to view it as a powerful AI program that took the gameplay out of the players control cause you could program your party to do everything. Others (like myself) approached it as a means of relegating simple but tedious tasks so you can focus more on the battles themselves. Gambit: Party cast Hastega is useful cause now I don't have to watch for the spell to wear off, my party automatically does it and its one less thing I have to worry about while the Behemoth King kicks my ass.

I don't know about most but going through the hunts I learned quickly I can't rely on Gambits indefinitely, I still had to play a hand in it. Sure random encounters are tedious but XII's system shortens the tedium (or allows you to skip it altogether) I really enjoyed it. I don't believe its perfect and god knows many things can be retooled but I really felt the system showed promise. That's just my opinion though ;)

[unfinished fantasy]

Gametrailers.com - Final Fantasy XIII - Dengeki Special Edition Trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/29007.html)
...
The one I've linked to shows maybe 15 seconds of "supposed in-game battle footage" Hope this helps :)didn't seem like the player had any control over the character in that particular scene. Looks like cutscene about encountering enemies probably in the beginning of the game, e.g. FFIV Cecil defending Red Wings but with camera rotating madly (which I doubt will happen in actual battle)

[Wolf Kanno]

SE insists its actual in-game battle footage but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a pre-rendered battle sequence showing what SE is hoping to accomplish with XIII. The battle scenes have been present since the original trailer back in 2006 (might be earlier or later, I haven't been keeping tabs). but if it is real battle footage the question still stands of how it works.:D

Though the idea of it being a fixed battle is pretty damn plausible...

[champagne supernova]

Part of it definitely is from an in-game battle. The bit where there it shows damage, and there is a little map showing all the enemies. But, that bit is definitely not continuous. They took bits & pieces of a battle and combined it together to make it look dramatic.

Honestly, I reckon it will revert to something very similar to VII with the Wait option activated. Your guy gets their turn, the game slows down as you make your decision and then BOOM!

Reckon there was also a limit break in that trailer.

[tidus_rox]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAWAWAWAAARRGGGG I NEED A PS3!



You can come over and we can play mine :) Hehe...

From what little we know, I think the battle system will be great :)
I haven't found a FF with a disapointing one, so...
Ooooo this game makes me excited!!!

[NeoTifa]

all i have to say is.... so like, theres no more level whoring? my fiance isnt gonna like it. thats all he does.

since you cant just go around and pick random fights, how else are you gonna spend your random when-youre-stuck-and-dont-know-what-to-do-so-you-pick-random-fights-and-level-whore-until-you-get-an-epiphany time? idk. sounds kinda... idk

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm certain you can still level whore. They will probably just respawn like in XII.

I did see a bit of new info (so its actually old news but I don't read all the threads in here) but apparently they are going to try to give the enemies back stories... I don't know how this will work but I'll find the link to where I read this...

[Hyperion4444]

As from what I've seen, you select a number of actions to be executed on the left that moves into the bottom and executes them in chronological order you've selected them.

I think you can switch within the selected commands to improvise on the unforseen enemy's next move. (I'm quite sure I saw something like that on the Cloud DVD Trailer, but I'd had to check it again)

[Wolf Kanno]

As from what I've seen, you select a number of actions to be executed on the left that moves into the bottom and executes them in chronological order you've selected them.

I think you can switch within the selected commands to improvise on the unforseen enemy's next move. (I'm quite sure I saw something like that on the Cloud DVD Trailer, but I'd had to check it again)

The question is whether this is the actual combat system or the new Limit Break system.

Either way works for me, but if it is the first one, and the system is a cross of Xenogears, CC, and Legend of Legaia; I hope to hell its got good difficulty cause a system like that seems like it has many applications of being overpowered.

[Yar]

Okay. So I've been analyzing these images and I seem to have a theory. You can make of it what you will, this just make sense to me. It builds onto what Hyperion has said.

The first image seems to be before any action occurs. The ATB bar is full, and sequence seems to be growing from the left. The ATB count is 110/830. Attack costs 30 ATB and V Strike is 50 ATB. Two attacks and a V Strike equals 110 ATB.

Maybe there are caps on how much you can do. Maybe you can only queue 5 actions and then your queue must clear before adding more actions. Maybe you can execute the queue whenever. Maybe you don't need to queue 5 actions before they act. Or maybe as the actions clear, you can add more to the queue.

I think though that when your ATB reaches 0, you need to wait for it to recharge. Possibly you have to wait until it's 100% full or just full enough to take an action. If your ATB isn't charged you possibly can't queue.

The second image seems to be as the action is occuring. The count of 217/830 may be the ATB counting down, and this shot is as it's reducing. The actions are being cleared left to right, which gives my the impression that you may need to wait for all 5 actions to clear before acting again.

It obviously looks like the enemies are on the map with you, so it doesn't like like we're going back to the "I'm on this side, you're on that side" any time soon.

None of the battle sequences we've been given show use of more than one character, but I think that all in battle will be directly controllable. [/specuation]

If I think of something to add, I will.

[Depression Moon]

As long as it's still turned based then I'm fine. I'm also wondering how flashy the limits are going to be this time.

[Roto13]

There's a zero in front of the 8000+ HP there. I guess that means they've raised the standard limit. :P

[Yar]

I don't like it when then use unnecessary zeros. It makes it look quite clustered in my opinion. XII was horrible about this.

[Roto13]

I think that's why they're gray.

[Yar]

Well, duh. :P

[Hyperion4444]

There's a zero in front of the 8000+ HP there. I guess that means they've raised the standard limit. :P

Actually the numbers are changing constently for the number of actual damage, they'll show you the real number after the chains and everything is completed. (That's why in a screenshot, there could be a number like 087, but since there's 3 digit, you know it'll be over 100)


What I want to try is to take on that Behemoth.
Come on! HA! WAHHH!
Bring it on!

[Shadowdeathrose]

What i have gathered from the trailers is that. FF XIII is. a bit of Final fantasy VIII, X and XII rolled into one. and a bit of VII from the trailer of the Train. But you can't decide for your selves untill it's in your house being played on your ps3 or xbox 360... bout time i had a reason to buy a ps3

[Hyperion4444]

Battle Field will have more importance.

28818

Ouch!
Shocking, isn't it?


Use your surrounding to your advantage.

[arcanedude34]

What i have gathered from the trailers is that. FF XIII is. a bit of Final fantasy VIII, X and XII rolled into one. and a bit of VII from the trailer of the Train. But you can't decide for your selves untill it's in your house being played on your ps3 or xbox 360... bout time i had a reason to buy a ps3

Final Fantasy VI, VII, VIII, IX (arguably) and I (DoS) all feature trains, so I doubt it was any intentional reference to VII specifically.

Also, I'm under the impression that the battle sequences were edited HEAVILY to make it seem more cinematic and I assume there's either some new Limit Break System that utilizes the environment (a totally kick-ass version of Geomancy?) or you select a chain at the beginning of each round, or on your turn or whatever, and the chain then plays out as a short cinema based on your surroundings (a less magical, but still kick-ass style of Geomancy?)

As for the ATB, it seems like it would fill up over time. You can probably attack as soon as the ATB gauge is high enough to allow it, or you can wait a little longer for a higher ATB to allow more powerful moves. If this is obvious/has been pointed out already, just ignore me, I didn't read the whole thread. : P