Financial stuff

[Roto13]

http://kotaku.com/393195/square-enix-lose-money-need-more-greenbacks

Apparently Squenix didn't do so hot last year. :P They need to release a new Final Fantasy or something. Go!

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

I'm not sure if this means they'll actually try to branch out and make more interesting original games like they did during the PS1 era, or whether they'll just try even harder to "play it safe" by developing nearly every title under the Final Fantasy brand. Whatever proves to be more profitable, I'm sure; I just hope that doesn't mean the latter.

[Slothy]

Did they even release any high profile games last year (on the level of an FF or DQ)? I don't recall many, and don't see any really high profile titles listed on Wikipedia, so unless I'm mistaken I'd say those sales results are fairly respectable compared to 2006. A difference of 2.5 million titles isn't actually that large with a lack of big name releases, considering any given FF or DQ game would sell more than that in a month.

Not saying they don't need to do something, but since all of their next-gen (and therefore expensive) titles are still in development, I'm not surprised that there'd be a drop in units sold and that it would hurt them a bit last year. Odds are we'll see stories about a turn around next year (assuming FFXIII makes it out this year). Then again, we probably won't since hearing about how a very large company behind many popular games had a slow year makes for more sensational news.

[Jessweeee♪]

They must make a Threads of Fate sequel or remake.


....OR BOTH.

Remake Threads of Fate and add a little more story to make it a 40 hour game instead of five.

[Roogle]

I am not sure what this will mean for the North American market of Square Enix, Co. Ltd.

I would attribute a majority of the lack of sales in the United States to the lack of new, original titles and the lack of loyalty to certain series. The Mana series, for example, lacks a solid, cohesive fanbase with the exception of Secret of Mana, and Square Enix has failed to capture that fanbase back.

[JKTrix]

...or whether they'll just try even harder to "play it safe" by developing nearly every title under the Final Fantasy brand. Whatever proves to be more profitable, I'm sure; I just hope that doesn't mean the latter.

Kinda looks like that's what they're talking about. (http://kotaku.com/5011016/square-enix-president-laying-down-the-law) President Wada apparently said to 'stop making games that only you (developers) want to play'. I'm not sure this is entirely bad, though. I don't think this really means they'll be cutting back their non-license, non-FF/DQ franchises completely, but rather having a more strict filter system for those games that do branch out. A sort of filter that would stop stuff like the recent Mana games, but still let The World Ends With You slide through.

In fact, I kind of hope they become more like Capcom. I'm cool with the endless rehashing and re-releasing of Street Fighter, Mega Man, ResiEvil etc (though I won't necessarily buy them), as long as I get more things like Zack & Wiki, Dead Rising and Okami from them.

If it does mean that they're going to limit their releases to only 'sure shots' though, that will be terrible. Steps towards 'the death of gaming (http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-gaming-discussion/117405-uh-game-crash-what.html#post2494504)'.

[Momiji]

Ha. All they need to do is make something that has some or all of these words/phrases/characters somewhere in the game: 'Final Fantasy VII', 'Cloud', 'Sephiroth', 'Aeris', and/or 'Vincent'. Tack a nonsense title on it, and you've got instant money.

That's the most obvious route, though.

[Bolivar]

Well, I guess that FFVII remake is coming sooner than expected....

Seriously though, it's not that big of a surprise when you consider that FFXII was released in 2006 and Dragon Quest VIIII only 1-2 months before that year in the US. After all, 2007 was a year of handheld and more casual games for the company, 200k-sales type titles, so them having a more "average" year was to be expected.

Also, the titles that are going to really bring them in the money (Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant, and obviously Final Fantasy XIII) have been in development all that year, so I think they knew what the outcome was going to be also.


President Wada apparently said to 'stop making games that only you (developers) want to play'.

that wasn't in the article, and I seriously hope he did not say that. I think the worst decision they could make would be to go in the FFXII and Last Remnant direction, of making an RPG "appealing to Western audiences" - meaning an attempt to make a western RPG. The people who play WRPG's do not want to buy Square-Enix games, and the SE fans do not want to buy Western-like RPG's. I think the creativity and aesthetics that are not necessarily better, but different than what we come to expect in our culture, is what has made their company so successful in the US.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

I don't think "make games with wider appeal" means "make Western-style RPGs."

[Gogo]

I don't think "make games with wider appeal" means "make Western-style RPGs."

It doesn't have to, but it doesn't mean they won't either. Advertising and hype can add to appeal. So can making a Final Fantasy Shoot-'em-up.

I don't mind them making more Western RPGs, but they shouldn't label them with such names as Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest. There's a reason we like these series. Because they are Japanese RPGs. If we wanted to play more Western-style RPGs, we'd be playing them.

That's why many of us were wary of Final Fantasy XII. By overhauling its battle system, many of us fans felt like something had been stolen from us. Something that had worked for almost twenty years, and something that drew us to the games in the first place.

[Wolf Kanno]

Square usually has slow years when an FF or DQ title isn't released. I'm certain if you did a sales chart of 98 and 99 you would see a major difference, Despite 98 giving us Xenogears and Final Fantasy Tactics I doubt they equaled (at the time) the sheer volume of sales FFVIII did.

I never found XII to be a "western RPG" and offline MMO most certainly but hardly a western style RPG. Of anything it reminded me of FFV. Of anything, I feel XII reintroduces alot of elements that have gone missing in the franchise in the last few years. What I've seen and heard of Last Remnant has never given me the idea of a western RPG either but then again the project doesn't suit my taste to begin with so I know very little about it outside of the fact that a major character is being tailored made for western audiences (the brain dead ones anyway :rolleyes2) so I can't really comment.

Does SE have any major IPs coming out this year? I thought XIII and DQIX were still a year off?

[Karellen]

They're publishing Infinite Undiscovery and releasing DQV DS. The latter will at least do very well in Japan.

[Gogo]

I never found XII to be a "western RPG" and offline MMO most certainly but hardly a western style RPG. Of anything it reminded me of FFV. Of anything, I feel XII reintroduces alot of elements that have gone missing in the franchise in the last few years.

No, no. I didn't mean it to sound like XII was a western RPG. :p

I meant that it was so different that it seemed they just took a game and slapped the FF name onto it to sell it.

[JKTrix]

President Wada apparently said to 'stop making games that only you (developers) want to play'.

that wasn't in the article...

Oops, put the wrong link in. I edited it, but here's the link again:
Rumor: Square Enix President Laying Down The Law (http://kotaku.com/5011016/square-enix-president-laying-down-the-law)

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't think "make games with wider appeal" means "make Western-style RPGs."

It doesn't have to, but it doesn't mean they won't either. Advertising and hype can add to appeal. So can making a Final Fantasy Shoot-'em-up.

I don't mind them making more Western RPGs, but they shouldn't label them with such names as Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest. There's a reason we like these series. Because they are Japanese RPGs. If we wanted to play more Western-style RPGs, we'd be playing them.

That's why many of us were wary of Final Fantasy XII. By overhauling its battle system, many of us fans felt like something had been stolen from us. Something that had worked for almost twenty years, and something that drew us to the games in the first place.

I was referring to Bolivar's comment though I understand your feelings about XII being a radical departure from the series. Sorry for the confusion.

DQV will definetly do well but we'll have to wait and see for Last Remnant. ;)

[Dreddz]

I expect to see alot more titles go multiplatform, this isnt the PS2 days where you could just make a title for the PS2 and know you were open to a big enough fanbase to get strong sales for your games.

That said im happier when developers decide to stay exclusive to one console, as multiplatform titles are made quality is lost in the process.

[Bolivar]

I don't think "make games with wider appeal" means "make Western-style RPGs."

There's a multitude of reasons to believe that SE/Yoichi Wada would mean that. For one, we all know, as well as they do, that FF brings in more money than Dragon Quest because of North America. Mr. Wada himself has expressed several times over his desire to seek out this audience (http://www.psu.com/Square-Enix-wants-more-western-expansion--a0002360-p0.php), not to mention the company creating shooter and RTS-themed RPG's with Dirge of Cerberus and Revenant Wings. We've also seen it with other trends in development, which brings me to my next point.


I never found XII to be a "western RPG" and offline MMO most certainly but hardly a western style RPG. Of anything it reminded me of FFV. Of anything, I feel XII reintroduces alot of elements that have gone missing in the franchise in the last few years. What I've seen and heard of Last Remnant has never given me the idea of a western RPG either but then again the project doesn't suit my taste to begin with so I know very little about it outside of the fact that a major character is being tailored made for western audiences (the brain dead ones anyway ) so I can't really comment.

Akitoshi Kawazu himself has stated in interviews that FFXII was made with western gamers in mind, expecting that it would be especially well received in North America, and that they purposely tried to contrast the the qualities of FFX specifically which were considered too linear or too restrictive. Furthermore, I think anyone familiar with PC RPGs over the last 10 years could easily discern the more western elements. Everything from the map-approach to the visual presentation of battles was a large departure from what Final Fantasy and the JRPG canon has been. Furthermore, the game is best played like a western RPG - going out to discover new regions and dungeons in order to seek out the best equipment for your characters. When the game is played like a JRPG, as in the player participating in a story, the player easily finds him/herself underleveled and underequipped.

The Last Remnant, as with FFXII, has been easily recognized as having certain qualities that might be more appealing to a western audience, and there is such a sweeping acknowledgment of this on the net alone that it would be futile for me to entertain the idea that it isn't.

[Wolf Kanno]

I never found XII to be a "western RPG" and offline MMO most certainly but hardly a western style RPG. Of anything it reminded me of FFV. Of anything, I feel XII reintroduces alot of elements that have gone missing in the franchise in the last few years. What I've seen and heard of Last Remnant has never given me the idea of a western RPG either but then again the project doesn't suit my taste to begin with so I know very little about it outside of the fact that a major character is being tailored made for western audiences (the brain dead ones anyway ) so I can't really comment.

Akitoshi Kawazu himself has stated in interviews that FFXII was made with western gamers in mind, expecting that it would be especially well received in North America, and that they purposely tried to contrast the the qualities of FFX specifically which were considered too linear or too restrictive. Furthermore, I think anyone familiar with PC RPGs over the last 10 years could easily discern the more western elements. Everything from the map-approach to the visual presentation of battles was a large departure from what Final Fantasy and the JRPG canon has been. Furthermore, the game is best played like a western RPG - going out to discover new regions and dungeons in order to seek out the best equipment for your characters. When the game is played like a JRPG, as in the player participating in a story, the player easily finds him/herself underleveled and underequipped.

The Last Remnant, as with FFXII, has been easily recognized as having certain qualities that might be more appealing to a western audience, and there is such a sweeping acknowledgment of this on the net alone that it would be futile for me to entertain the idea that it isn't.

I feel the comical thing about all this is the fact that exploration was originally an element in early JRPG (and even many well known JRPG series today) hell even the early titles many people claim started the genre had pretty heavy exploration elements so its difficult for me to say its an element not in the genre itself though it did almost completely disappear in the PS2 generation of RPGs. I will concur that XII had some western elements but nothing that would have been foreign to a DQ fan. I won't argue the point but I do feel its silly that JRPG's are considered to have no exploration/stat tweaking but alas it seems to be common knowledge on the web that they don't...:(

[Avarice-ness]

That's what happens when you only produce spin offs and sequels.

Either way, I'm a fan but I do not buy sequels or spin-offs, I only want to play remakes (GBA or DS) and new games in the series.

Gamers or not, Squeenix needs to understand that when a gamer loses faith in the people who are mistreating their games (AKA making Spin-Off games for the sole want of money) they lose faith in the quality of games.
Thus the games turn into people like me, a gamer who won't play any spin-off or sequels because they are not made with the same love and heart that was put into the originals.

At this point though, Squeenix goes down the drain. Oh well. I lost hope in their company long ago.

[Bolivar]

I never found XII to be a "western RPG" and offline MMO most certainly but hardly a western style RPG. Of anything it reminded me of FFV. Of anything, I feel XII reintroduces alot of elements that have gone missing in the franchise in the last few years. What I've seen and heard of Last Remnant has never given me the idea of a western RPG either but then again the project doesn't suit my taste to begin with so I know very little about it outside of the fact that a major character is being tailored made for western audiences (the brain dead ones anyway ) so I can't really comment.

Akitoshi Kawazu himself has stated in interviews that FFXII was made with western gamers in mind, expecting that it would be especially well received in North America, and that they purposely tried to contrast the the qualities of FFX specifically which were considered too linear or too restrictive. Furthermore, I think anyone familiar with PC RPGs over the last 10 years could easily discern the more western elements. Everything from the map-approach to the visual presentation of battles was a large departure from what Final Fantasy and the JRPG canon has been. Furthermore, the game is best played like a western RPG - going out to discover new regions and dungeons in order to seek out the best equipment for your characters. When the game is played like a JRPG, as in the player participating in a story, the player easily finds him/herself underleveled and underequipped.

The Last Remnant, as with FFXII, has been easily recognized as having certain qualities that might be more appealing to a western audience, and there is such a sweeping acknowledgment of this on the net alone that it would be futile for me to entertain the idea that it isn't.

I feel the comical thing about all this is the fact that exploration was originally an element in early JRPG (and even many well known JRPG series today) hell even the early titles many people claim started the genre had pretty heavy exploration elements so its difficult for me to say its an element not in the genre itself though it did almost completely disappear in the PS2 generation of RPGs. I will concur that XII had some western elements but nothing that would have been foreign to a DQ fan. I won't argue the point but I do feel its silly that JRPG's are considered to have no exploration/stat tweaking but alas it seems to be common knowledge on the web that they don't...:(

I don't think anyone on the net proposes that JRPG's lack exploration/stat tweaking, only that it does it in noticeably different ways. We're also foregoing many other differences others might pick up, little things such as the free camera, when the more traditional japanese style is to use a fixed, cinematic angle.

Also, some of the earlier games which defined the east's style in the genre gave only the illusion of exploration, as any area you find is something you would inevitably have to encounter, anyway. The fourth installment of the FF franchise had a total of, what, 3 optional "quests" (if you could even call them that): Excalibur, Phantom Beast World, and Bahamut if I remember correctly.

[Wolf Kanno]

V-VII had many open-ended optional parts and even VIII did to a point though I doubt many people cared about them ;) FFIII also has many optional places as a few towns and villages are completely optional. IV is in fact mostly on rails but it does have the Sylph cave, Land of Summoned Beasts quest, Adamant Quest as well as a optional town (the Mythril city, I can't remember its name) and the Castle of the Ninja's is actually optional.

I never felt the camera position is important cause there is enough variation on both sides to make it a moot point. I find when people compare the two styles its always using the pinnacle of each genre, For JRPGs its usually the Tales series or Aiterler Iris and for western its Morrowind. Personally I don't think this is a fair assessment. FF has always walked a thin line between both styles even though it spawned the JRPG genre, I've personally felt it was balanced enough not to be pigeoned holed into until they made X. But that's just my observation on the subject. :p

[Heath]

That's what happens when you only produce spin offs and sequels.

Either way, I'm a fan but I do not buy sequels or spin-offs, I only want to play remakes (GBA or DS) and new games in the series.

Gamers or not, Squeenix needs to understand that when a gamer loses faith in the people who are mistreating their games (AKA making Spin-Off games for the sole want of money) they lose faith in the quality of games.
Thus the games turn into people like me, a gamer who won't play any spin-off or sequels because they are not made with the same love and heart that was put into the originals.

At this point though, Squeenix goes down the drain. Oh well. I lost hope in their company long ago.

I generally agree with you; I still think they can produce some excellent games but I wish they'd try and do some more original stuff. As much as I do like Final Fantasy, it can only go on for so long. I appreciate that sequels and spin-offs are probably pretty bankable to succeed to a certain point, but at the end of a day a company like Square is a business first and foremost. Having said that, I did enjoy FFTA and have heard some good things about FFX-2. And the remakes of the SNES Final Fantasies (or ports or whatever) have been pretty good and FFIV-DS is looking nice too.

[Ouch!]

Remakes are okay to an extent. As I was never allowed to own a console until the PlayStation and the Nintendo 64 were released, I originally missed out on a lot of the early Final Fantasy titles. I was only able to play FFVII and FFVIII on the PC until I got my PS2 (I had yet to learn of the existence of ROMs at this point), and that was about when Square Enix had just started churning out the first ports of the early games--Anthologies, Chronicles, and Origins.

Since it's release, I think Final Fantasy I has been rereleased three times for three separate gaming consoles: there was the PSX release, the GBA release, and the PSP release. Quite honestly, I think this is quickly becoming ridiculous.

I understand, to an extent. The release of Origins was a welcome one. The release of Dawn of Souls was a smart business decision by Square Enix given how much the video game market has moved towards handheld gaming. The PSP release, however, was excessive.

I mind remakes far less than ports. As long as they put enough effort into making the game more than a just rehashed experience (as I hope they've done with FFIV DS), they're welcome to it. Remakes seem to kill ports, too, which is always a good thing, I think.

Certainly SE expected these types of results. As others have mentioned, 2007 lacked a new Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest title; and by now Square Enix is well aware what their biggest money makers are. I'm hoping both Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery do well. If both of these succeed, I hope it queues the company to continue to produce more original titles.

I also think that we should expect to see more multiplatform titles. The pros and cons of multiplatform games are an entirely different discussion, but I do think that multiplatform releases allow companies to reach wider audiences and thus encourage them to be a little more experimental in your approach. Releasing a new RPG on both the Xbox 360 and PS3, for example, is a lot safer than releasing it on only one of the two (PS3 because of it's lower market share--unless that's changed, I stopped paying attention to console wars--and the Xbox 360 because of its stigma as a primarily FPS console).

I hope this is a wake up call to SE and not a queue for them to assume an even more conservative business model. Squaresoft and Enix were known as leaders of the RPG genre--you can't be a leader by rehashing things over and over, and I hope they know that.

[Nifleheim7]

Certainly SE expected these types of results. As others have mentioned, 2007 lacked a new Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest title; and by now Square Enix is well aware what their biggest money makers are. I'm hoping both Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery do well. If both of these succeed, I hope it queues the company to continue to produce more original titles.

I agree with you,and i also want to see new IP's coming from them.But i wonder if those new titles are trully original when it comes to their content.A new IP doesn't guarantee an original game.
Imo,Squarenix's development policy behind the main Final Fantasy titles is very creative and i hope they continue to do so.

[Wolf Kanno]

Multi-platform would be a good approach, especially in the RPG market cause outside of technical specs, it shouldn't suffer the major problems of multi-platform games, i.e. interface issues due to controller designs. I honestly feel SE should go this route as first party exclusives don't really carry any benefit for the 3rd party developer IMO.

One thing I've been speculating on though... Do you think part of SE's remake/sequel bent is due partly to the merger in the extent that SE itself has no real competition on the marketplace? I'm pretty sure globally, SE controls most of the RPG market now; but do you think its possible, that part of the reason for the absence of original IPs is because they no longer have major competition? I'm just throwing this out to debate. ;)

[Jessweeee♪]

WAIT DOES THIS MEAN I WILL NEVER EVER SEE A SEQUEL FOR THREADS OF FATE EVER?


Haet u sqwahr.