SMT: Persona 4 Arriving this winter

[Gilghamut]

Atlus has announced a release date for the North American release of Persona 4, it will be coming out on Dec. 9th.

IGN Advertisement (http://ps2.ign.com/articles/886/886415p1.html)

[Karellen]

Meh. Having control over your party members sounds like it will be an improvement over Persona 3 already but I just can't muster any enthusiasm for this game. I just hope this whole "Shigenori Soejima" thing is just a fad and they aren't seriously thinking about replacing Kazuma Kaneko.

[Vermachtnis]

That's going to be my chirstmas present from me to me! I dunno I like how you controlled only the main character in P3. It added to the difficulty. Of course if MC dies it'll probably be Game Over no matter how much you have controll.

[Dreddz]

Cool. This gives me enough time to finish Persona 3.

[Wolf Kanno]

I adore P3 and though the game is pretty flawless, I saw many possibilities for further improvement and customization in it. P4 looks like it might be fulfilling some of those. Hopefully if it does well, maybe they will release an anthology with a proper localization of P1 and actually give us Innocent Sin... No? Well I can dream can't I?

Overall, this is really good news and I'm surprised its being released (outside of Japan) so quickly. :cool:

[Zeromus_X]

I need to beat all my games before December, now...

[Mirage]

P3 is far from flawless. I think it leaves too much to depend on luck, rather than stats and tactics. A more customizable AI would be good, or just like they're doing in P4, let all characters be controllable. I died a lot of times in P3 just because the AI didn't do the smart thing, of while i was waiting for my turn so i could issue them new commands. Oh also, last boss that can charm you and make you use diarahan, that's just a huge smurf you right in the face from the developers.

Then there's also the stupid idea of making it an automatic game over when the main character dies, rather than letting the AI controlled characters try to use a life recovery item or magic. I've entered a battle in great condition, without being ambushed, and see the main character die from two critical/weakness hits from two enemies. There's no way to stop that from happening other than being insanely overleveled, and that's just poor game design.

[Zeromus_X]

P3 is far from flawless. I think it leaves too much to depend on luck, rather than stats and tactics. A more customizable AI would be good, or just like they're doing in P4, let all characters be controllable. I died a lot of times in P3 just because the AI didn't do the smart thing, of while i was waiting for my turn so i could issue them new commands. Oh also, last boss that can charm you and make you use diarahan, that's just a huge smurf you right in the face from the developers.

Tactics really make a big difference in how the AI acts; you just have to know what they'll do on each setting and change it accordingly. I almost always have everyone on Knock Down or Heal/Support depending on the situation because they act too undesirably on Act Freely. But yes, it is nice that they'll give the option of manually controlling the party in P4.

I don't agree that the game is devoid of strategy, though. There are plenty of accessories you can use to give yourself the edge, along with using the right Persona. Narcissus Flower and Tome of the Void (Narcissus/Abaddon's heart items) can protect you from Charm. I know I'd never enter that last battle without four of them for everyone because I'd never want to experience that whole Diarahan thing.


Then there's also the stupid idea of making it an automatic game over when the main character dies, rather than letting the AI controlled characters try to use a life recovery item or magic. I've entered a battle in great condition, without being ambushed, and see the main character die from two critical/weakness hits from two enemies. There's no way to stop that from happening other than being insanely overleveled, and that's just poor game design.

Overeveling isn't really necessary to avoid those types of things with the right setup (which really just boils down to covering your own weaknesses and exploiting the enemies', along with the right skills). You should always do your best to try and get the Player Advantage, too, that way you don't have to worry about anything going wrong all of the sudden.

[Mirage]

I dont think heart items were part of the original game. Also, Please don't assume that I don't do my best to equip the most beneficial personas. YOu can't *always* exploit the enemy's weakness and finish the battle with an all out attack. Sometimes your magic misses, sometimes the all out attack doesn't even finish them all off. Sometimes you simply don't have an attack of the right property. And with several different enemies in one battle, it is sometimes hard to find a persona that is strong against every attack the enemies can throw at you.

The Answer episode is a nice example. Before I even have a chance to get any good personas or items, I can get game over in two attacks, and this has happened to me even after I've done an all out attack, because none of the four enemies were dead after it. There was not really anything I could have done to prevent it, except skipping the fight all together, but doing that over and over again would leave me soft and squishy forever.

[Alucard von Elru]

I just hope this whole "Shigenori Soejima" thing is just a fad and they aren't seriously thinking about replacing Kazuma Kaneko.
I keep hoping that Kaneko is working on something else, like SMTIV or something. I'm beginning to doubt it though. When Nocturne and the DDS titles came out, I was absolutely glued to them. I replayed them constantly and was more addicted to them than to any other RPGs of the past generation. P3? It certainly seems okay, but what I played didn't "hook" me in a way reminiscent of its predecessors, and even though I've picked up FES I STILL haven't felt a strong urge to "get around to it."

In spite of its creative set up, the indefinable "spark" that attracts me so strongly to certain games doesn't seem to be present in P3. I'm hoping that it's just buried, and that whenever I DO get around to seriously playing P3 I'll find it.

So as far as P4 goes, I can't say I'm thrilled. At the same time, however, I'll probably end up picking it up just in case. I still find it difficult to NOT support Atlus.

[Karellen]

SMT without Kaneko is like Dragon Quest without Toriyama. I too hope he's been a no-show for these games because he's working on SMT4.

[LunarWeaver]

I loved me some Persona 3. I'll definitely pick this one up if I can gather the funds. My Ps2 has been clickity lately, though. I hope it doesn't break down right when I buy this. I can't be deprived delicious things.


P3? It certainly seems okay, but what I played didn't "hook" me in a way reminiscent of its predecessors, and even though I've picked up FES I STILL haven't felt a strong urge to "get around to it."

I always feel bad because I'm the one that raved a ton about Persona 3 to you, and when you got it there was no hippity ho over it. Oh well D:

[Zeromus_X]

I dont think heart items were part of the original game. Also, Please don't assume that I don't do my best to equip the most beneficial personas. YOu can't *always* exploit the enemy's weakness and finish the battle with an all out attack. Sometimes your magic misses, sometimes the all out attack doesn't even finish them all off. Sometimes you simply don't have an attack of the right property. And with several different enemies in one battle, it is sometimes hard to find a persona that is strong against every attack the enemies can throw at you.

They are very much in both versions of the game.

Of course there are a handful of bosses that have no weaknesses to exploit (the dice and table bosses come to mind), but for the majority of them, you can easily cripple them with either an elemental weakness or a status ailment. If none of these apply usually you can still Critical them with Rebellion/Revolution and later on Thunder Reign. If your attacks miss alot, use the right buff/debuff spell (they're insanely helpful).

But yeah, my point was that there is strategy in this game, it's not like the whole game is based on luck. I wasn't trying to assume anything about your play style.

[Mirage]

Strange, I don't remember Elizabeth ever telling me about those items in the original game, and i never got one either. While in FES i got a few pretty early on.

And actually, i died from random encounters more than from bosses. And dying from a random encounter is much more of a bitch, because it could have been ages since you last saved.

[Zeromus_X]

I used them alot in original P3. Igor tells you about them early on. Or maybe you have to have a Persona that carries one before he tells you about them.

Yeah, random encounters are usually much more of a problem, especially because those SP restoring items are so hard to come across. I made it a point to always get the player advantage, or just let my teammates do the dirty work in order to avoid them if they catch me. It is pretty much up to luck if they ambush you, especially if it's four enemies spamming instant death spells.

[Wolf Kanno]

P3 is far from flawless. I think it leaves too much to depend on luck, rather than stats and tactics. A more customizable AI would be good, or just like they're doing in P4, let all characters be controllable. I died a lot of times in P3 just because the AI didn't do the smart thing, of while i was waiting for my turn so i could issue them new commands. Oh also, last boss that can charm you and make you use diarahan, that's just a huge smurf you right in the face from the developers.

Don't play much from these guys do you? P3, hell MegaTen in general is far more heavily strategy based than other JRPGs or RPGs in general. Its about exploiting weaknesses and making sure you have a large enough variety of Persona's to counter most threats. Yes Random encounters are a bitch but since when was it written that they shouldn't be? I actually enjoy the fact that I need to be careful with even minor encounters.

I'm playing through New Game+ right now and I've dragged Lv. 6 characters into the high level optional dungeon. A dungeon that kicked my ass when my party was 60+ and I'm still able to win battles with my low level party by just exploiting the right weaknesses and being careful not to use All out Attack when I know it will kill me later.

The A.I. is pretty smart if you use the Tactics correctly. It may not be the Gambit system nor is it controllable characters but its sure a hell of a lot better than say KH... Besides, I actually quite likes inability to control the party as it added greater risk and it made changing up your party more important.


Then there's also the stupid idea of making it an automatic game over when the main character dies, rather than letting the AI controlled characters try to use a life recovery item or magic. I've entered a battle in great condition, without being ambushed, and see the main character die from two critical/weakness hits from two enemies. There's no way to stop that from happening other than being insanely overleveled, and that's just poor game design.

Its annoying but it also keeps you on your toes and it makes every decision important in the game (hey, just like the theme of the game!:p) Honestly though, I found the main character tends to always be the last alive and due to experience with the MegaTen series, I make sure my default Persona when traveling is resistant to Hama or Mudo. Btw, levels don't really help as much as your type of Persona. Even if you have a level 60 demon with high physical stats, it can still be taken down by a low level magic user exploiting his weakness (or spamming Almighty...) hence the strategy element involved. One has to look at more than just stats or skills or weaknesses. You have to balance the whole package.

I guess its hard for me to understand your complaints cause I actually don't mind seeing the Game Over screen every once and awhile, It means the developers are actually doing their job. The only time I ever died consistently was my own fault cause I used a party configuration that just didn't work and I refused to change. Most often its cause I got attached to a Persona that became obsolete to what I needed. If the enemy beats me fairly, I don't have issues (and in MegaTen, instant death magic is fair) so its hard for me to say the game is cheap or unfair. Just my opinion though...

[Mirage]

Persona 3 was my first. What, is the game supposed to be for long time players only?

I never said there was a set formula for random encounters. My only point was that an oneor two-hit kill of your main character when he is nearly fully healed and doesn't have a chance to get healed in between, is just a punch in the face from the devs.

Now, if you haven't saved in an hour or so because you would have to restart at the last checkpoint which was 30 floors down, it just completely ruins my fun. Now I don't know about you, but I play my games because I want to have fun.

I'm not talking about making the games way too easy, I'm just talking about making them not so tedious. Having to re-do 30 floors because of one single mistake, error in judgement, or just bad luck that killed one out of 4 characters who all were able to use restoration items or magic, that counts towards being tedious in my opinion. Now, dying to a boss is something I can do 20 times in a row without feeling it's tedious, as long as I didn't have to spend over 30 minutes getting to it each time.

Now of course, P3 isn't the only game in which you're forced to redo parts if you die, it just seemed to happen more often in P3. I guess it was more the reason of death that annoyed me, rather than just the fact that I did die.

The AI is well, average i guess. It remembers weakpoints, and heals when needed. It's pretty stupid that the characters just go to "wait" when they can't harm the enemy if they're not set to heal/support though. It would be better if they automatically supported the character that actually could damage the enemy, and not resort to powering up themselves <.<. But yeah I've seen far worse AI than in P3, SO3 for instance, I just miss the ability to change the tactics at any time, and if main character san is in certain statuses, they can't be changed either. Maybe I'm a control and stat freak! :p

Anyway, even after considering the points i made now, I think P3 was a pretty good game, and I'm replaying it now too.

[Wolf Kanno]

Persona 3 was my first. What, is the game supposed to be for long time players only?

I never said there was a set formula for random encounters. My only point was that an oneor two-hit kill of your main character when he is nearly fully healed and doesn't have a chance to get healed in between, is just a punch in the face from the devs.

Now, if you haven't saved in an hour or so because you would have to restart at the last checkpoint which was 30 floors down, it just completely ruins my fun. Now I don't know about you, but I play my games because I want to have fun.

I'm not talking about making the games way too easy, I'm just talking about making them not so tedious. Having to re-do 30 floors because of one single mistake, error in judgment, or just bad luck that killed one out of 4 characters who all were able to use restoration items or magic, that counts towards being tedious in my opinion. Now, dying to a boss is something I can do 20 times in a row without feeling it's tedious, as long as I didn't have to spend over 30 minutes getting to it each time.

Now of course, P3 isn't the only game in which you're forced to redo parts if you die, it just seemed to happen more often in P3. I guess it was more the reason of death that annoyed me, rather than just the fact that I did die.

The AI is well, average i guess. It remembers weakpoints, and heals when needed. It's pretty stupid that the characters just go to "wait" when they can't harm the enemy if they're not set to heal/support though. It would be better if they automatically supported the character that actually could damage the enemy, and not resort to powering up themselves <.<. But yeah I've seen far worse AI than in P3, SO3 for instance, I just miss the ability to change the tactics at any time, and if main character san is in certain statuses, they can't be changed either. Maybe I'm a control and stat freak! :p

Anyway, even after considering the points i made now, I think P3 was a pretty good game, and I'm replaying it now too.

The series pretty much follows P3 though in P2:EP you didn't get game over from your main character getting killed but then again it was still very likely that your whole party could be K.O.ed in one round cause you brought the wrong Personas. It's a different in taste I guess. If I get killed from a random encounter due to misjudgment and I have to redo 30 floors of hell, I blame myself. I've played the series and know fully well it punishes you for making little mistakes but its why I like it. I have to pay attention more, and I don't mind occasionally dying. I just make sure to do the age old saying of "save often" ;)

I play games for fun as well but I enjoy challenge cause it keeps me engaged. If games lack challenge I feel I might as well be reading a book or watching a video cause I'm only there for story and I feel the game aspect is a failure (hence my disdain for a few "interactive movie" type JRPGs).

I said before that I'm using low level characters (with one exception) in a high level dungeon. I'm actually capable of winning quite a few battles but I do see the game over screen alot as well. Its not difficult to be cheesed in the game but then again its only fair cause you do the same thing to win in the game as well. Its how MegaTen games work.

I don't mind being killed in the first round due to instant death magic in this series cause I know I can usually do the same thing back to the enemies. If it was like Zodiark in FFXII, where he wins fights by being cheap and instant killing your party yet he's overall a pansy (which he is :mad:) yet he's damn near impossible to take down (which he also is; cause he spams palings :mad2:) then I call foul play on the developers. I guess what I'm saying is I don't mind the cheapness in P3 cause its a 2 way road. As long as I understand that, I don't mind the supposedly "cheap kills" cause I know I'm facing the enemies on equal terms.

It takes awhile but once you accept how it works you realize how "flawless" the system really is :D