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sdm42393
08-15-2008, 04:29 AM
I don't know if there is a thread like this already, and sorry if there is.

In Chain of Memories, Marluxia wants to overthrow Organization XIII. Despite the fact that it was a pretty bad plan to begin with, what possible motivation could he have to overthrow the Organization (Nobodies don't have feelings, right)?

Speeking of which, all of the Organization members must be the world's best actors because most of them seem to have feelings (*cough* Axel and Roxas *cough*). Again with the whole motivation thing, you'd think that Nobodies wouldn't care about not being "whole".

Am I missing something here?

Fonzie
08-15-2008, 08:59 AM
I don't know if there is a thread like this already, and sorry if there is.

In Chain of Memories, Marluxia wants to overthrow Organization XIII. Despite the fact that it was a pretty bad plan to begin with, what possible motivation could he have to overthrow the Organization (Nobodies don't have feelings, right)?

Speeking of which, all of the Organization members must be the world's best actors because most of them seem to have feelings (*cough* Axel and Roxas *cough*). Again with the whole motivation thing, you'd think that Nobodies wouldn't care about not being "whole".

Am I missing something here?

Yes, you're missing the fact that this is only a video game, and within these games they tend to have loop-holes.

Depression Moon
08-15-2008, 04:37 PM
Again with the whole motivation thing, you'd think that Nobodies wouldn't care about not being "whole".

For that quote I can respond as in it's probably an instinctive thing like a heartless' inability to resist killing.

As with Axel and Roxas emotions, I think Roxas' is explainable as he was put in a virtual world by Ansem and had to interact with the virtual people there so he had to attach some of the personality he had to live in that life, which he got from Sora since he is half of what he is unlike the others who do not have their human dopplegangers anymore.

Jessweeee♪
08-16-2008, 12:10 AM
They are all Tin Men! They long for hearts without realizing they've had one all along n.n

Dr. Acula
08-17-2008, 05:07 AM
I agree with Jessweeee on this one.:D

sdm42393
08-20-2008, 01:55 PM
Tin men... that explains EVERYTHING!!

Jessweeee♪
08-21-2008, 01:02 AM
What, you've never seen the Wizard of Oz?

:(

sdm42393
08-21-2008, 03:03 PM
Yea I have. Many times.

Ouch!
08-27-2008, 11:36 PM
First of all, Roxas is an anomaly among Nobodies. Final Mix + made it clear that he does, somehow, possess a heart. This explains how he is able to wield a keybalde, and given the striking resemblance to Ven, I expect the reason for this anomaly will be explained in Birth by Sleep or NUMBERS/2 Days (or perhaps a combination of both). Comparing Roxas to the other Organization members will cause more confusion than anything else.

The problem with Nobodies is that they're poorly defined. They're often referred to as nonexistent, which doesn't really make sense since they clearly possess tangible, physical forms--which, for the sake of this argument we'll assume is acceptable criteria for existence; let's stay away from cogito.

Since Nobodies clearly possess memories from their life before losing their hearts, it's probably safe to say that aside from being merely the shell (i.e. the body) of individuals who have lost their hearts, they retained some form of their mind (or perhaps a soul). As far as I know, the Kingdom Hearts mythos hasn't clearly stated the bounds of what the heart accomplishes as far as cognition goes.

My assumption is that Nobodies are still capable of being motivated. While motivation is usually emotional in nature, it can also be intellectual. For whatever reason, Nobodies believe that possessing a heart is beneficial. Without a heart, however, this belief does not stem from emotions. As a result, they're generally apathetic to things around them. This is perhaps why they often seem so cold in their approach. They go about obtaining hearts in what they see as the most efficient manner. Often efficiency requires one to take actions which may seem as cold or even cruel. However, since they do not possess hearts, Nobodies are not capable of sympathy or empathy and see nothing wrong with their actions.

Axel's actions are a bit more confusing than that. He is, after all, the only true Nobody who strays from acting only to obtain a heart. The others described Axel as tricking himself into thinking he could possibly have a heart. Obviously Nobodies remember what it was like to have a heart. Being in close proximity to Roxas--who did have a heart and was capable of genuine emotions and feelings probably confused Axel. Roxas felt genuine friendship for Axel, while Axel merely reciprocated those feelings by mirroring them. Roxas just reminded Axel what it felt like to have friendship. It's the anomaly that is Roxas possessing a heart that made Axel act funny.

Or, y'know, what the Fonz said.

sdm42393
08-29-2008, 02:37 AM
Or, y'know, what the Fonz said.

Heh, yea. :D
Thanks for the response, that makes a lot more sense (for Kingdom Hearts/video game standards).