Haha everyone hates Vaan

[Bahamut2000X]

I happened across this (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/435574) movie today and thought I would share if others have yet to see it.

Ah this movie made me happy on the inside. :D

[Vivisteiner]

Lol, I dont hate Vaan, but the movie was pretty funny.

[Moon Rabbits]

Vaan is just unremarkable ... too plain. Other than that he's pretty alright.

[Roto13]

Horrible voice acting. :P (Except Fran. xP)

I do hate Vaan, though. xP He seems completely out of place. All of the other characters are relatively sensible and they work nicely with the overall tone of the game. Vaan acts like they found him in a mall food court or something.

[Vyk]

That was pretty awesome haha

[ReloadPsi]

There's a very simple reason why I don't hate Vaan: before him we had Tidus. Despite a very superficial resemblence he's nowhere near as annoying.

[Heath]

Vaan in this video just really reminded me of a friend of mine which I found slightly disconcerting. Otherwise, it was an alright video. Still think they should've done something more with Vaan or replaced him with a better character.

[Vermachtnis]

Wow, replace Runescape with WoW and the baby with a cat and that's pretty much me and my friends. I've had my friend tell me to steal a chocobo once. That was freaky. That all movie was awesome.

[Roto13]

Vaan in this video just really reminded me of a friend of mine which I found slightly disconcerting. Otherwise, it was an alright video. Still think they should've done something more with Vaan or replaced him with a better character.

It think I read somewhere that the original plan was to have Basch as the main character and Vaan wasn't even going to exist, but Squenix was all "No, we need an androgynous little prick like every other Final Fantasy in the last 10 years. Put one in," so they made Vaan. :P And then brushed him off to the side for most of the game. xP

[Heath]

Yeah, I've heard that about Basch as well and I'd definitely have found it preferable. Hell, if I had my way, Barret would've been the main character in FFXII. Then again, if I had my way the world would be a very different place... Alas.

[Bahamut2000X]

Yeah, I've heard that about Basch as well and I'd definitely have found it preferable. Hell, if I had my way, Barret would've been the main character in FFXII. Then again, if I had my way the world would be a very different place... Alas.

I would like that World. :)

[Big D]

I read the 'scrapbook' and started playing the movie, but turned it off after about two seconds of voice-acted 'music'. I can tell what the movie's like just from the scrapbook, anyway - "LOL VAN R SUX CUZ HE R GAY N NO CHAR DEVLOPMENT N HE DA MAIN CHAR N IT R AL LIKE SATR WARZ CUZ OF DA SHIPS N DA EMPRIE N LOLOL".

Basically the same stuff people have been saying since the game came out, mainly because they don't understand what's happening, or they think Star Wars invented - rather than reusing - a ton of genre clichés, and 'cause they think Vaan is somehow *required* to have exactly the same role as the lead character in ever other FF game.

I love a good parody. Emphasis on good parody. Silly voices and repeated tired, uninformed complaints isn't good parody.

Sure, Vaan's not a terribly interesting or involved character. I'm pretty sure he's not meant to be. The story's not about him; rather, he's the conduit who tells the story to us.

[Roto13]

There could have been so many better conduits. xD

[Big D]

Absolutely, though a cast of awesomely heroic and admirable titans gets boring pretty fast :p

If Basch had been the main character, as originally planned, it would've altered the storytelling quite a bit, in my opinion. Out of all the main cast, Basch undergoes what I'd consider the most profound set of changes. If he'd been the central character, then we would've spent a lot more time on his thoughts and feelings, like FFVIII did with Squall. That'd be a big departure from how FFXII actually turned out, with the audience somewhat removed from the characters for a change, instead of inside their heads all the time.

[Roto13]

I'm not even really opposed to the idea of a Vaan type character, just along for the ride, made to feel like a bit of an outsider, and a witness to the events of the story. I just wish he wasn't such girl. :P No matter how much or how little development he has, or how important or unimportant he is to the story, or whether he's there as a witness or as a key player, he could have been perfectly fine if he wasn't such a dickless little fop. xD

[Wolf Kanno]

Another interesting tidbit about XII. Matsuno apparently loved Balthier so much he gave him a larger role than originally planned, he was even thinking about having the entire story rewritten to make him the lead but was thwarted due to the development delays.

I don't hate Vaan, hell the series has made worse whiny boring paper thin characters so he's hardly on my http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif list. I felt his coming of age story was handled quite nicely due to its realism. I don't blame people for hating him but from a story standpoint and from what the team has mentioned in interviews, Vaan is not the main character. XII follows in the footsteps of other FF titles by having the story switch between the cast. Vaan's story ends less than a third of the way into the plot. So I wish people would stop assuming he's the lead cause he's the only character model available in the bigger cities.

[scrumpleberry]

Horrible voice acting. :P


Albeit that, it's a heck of a lot better than most amateur voice acting esp. on newgrounds.

Vaan's okay. An improvement on Tidus.

[Roto13]

Tidus needs some fucking ritalin.

[ReloadPsi]

Finally actually remembered to watch the damn cartoon and noticed the depiction of Vaan was 100% inaccurate. Well okay, despite "REVOLUTION!" but that's it.

I'd say Tidus was more like that, and that's only when taking a less objective approach.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Vaan in the loading screen made me lol.

[champagne supernova]

Average movie, but had some funny moments.

Why, oh why, did they not re-write the story making Balthier the lead! WHY!?!?!?!?!?!

[Wolf Kanno]

Average movie, but had some funny moments.

Why, oh why, did they not re-write the story making Balthier the lead! WHY!?!?!?!?!?!

Cause they were already two years behind schedule?

[ReloadPsi]

It's too bad they didn't cotton on to Balthier's overall superiority as a character earlier on. If he were the actual lead character I think I may already have completed the game by now... and we'd have an FF with an adult lead character for the first time since 7.

(Yeah, and to all those people calling Cloud a whiny teen: he's 21 and is troubled by a hugely traumatic past, not his puberty. Learn to freakin' count from thirteen to nineteen.)

[Old Manus]

Wait, something actually happened in FFXII?

[Vyk]

It's too bad they didn't cotton on to Balthier's overall superiority as a character earlier on. If he were the actual lead character I think I may already have completed the game by now... and we'd have an FF with an adult lead character for the first time since 7.

(Yeah, and to all those people calling Cloud a whiny teen: he's 21. Learn to freakin' count from thirteen to nineteen.)

Ditto all this

You'd think they woulda caught on that people didn't mind older characters considering how popular FFVII turned out to be

[Suvious]

Vaan: Guys are you watching.... are you watching!? I'm gonna jump!
Basch: Oh ffs I just wanna kill Vayne, HURRY UP AND JUMP!

[Wolf Kanno]

It's too bad they didn't cotton on to Balthier's overall superiority as a character earlier on. If he were the actual lead character I think I may already have completed the game by now... and we'd have an FF with an adult lead character for the first time since 7.

(Yeah, and to all those people calling Cloud a whiny teen: he's 21. Learn to freakin' count from thirteen to nineteen.)

Ditto all this

You'd think they woulda caught on that people didn't mind older characters considering how popular FFVII turned out to be

They're just trying to target the demographic. I still feel from a story perspective, Lady Ashe is the actual lead but it doesn't change much cause I believe she's 19.

[arcanedude34]

Squenix was all "No, we need an androgynous little prick like every other Final Fantasy in the last 10 years. Put one in,"

Zidane wasn't... imo...

Anyway, I don't mind Vaan. He doesn't have much connection to the overall story, but, like Tidus in X, he's the best one to tell the story through, because he knows the least about the overall plot at the beginning (except Panelo, but she's pretty much a naggy, yet somehow more attractive Vaan) so it feels like you learn about things at almost the same rate as Vaan.That's one of the reasons Raiden was theleading character of MGS2, because someone who's involved enough with the world to be considered the "main" character probably shouldn't need someone to explain to him what hunts are (as if it isn't given away by the name. Hunts. Maybe ya hunt something?)

[champagne supernova]

Squenix was all "No, we need an androgynous little prick like every other Final Fantasy in the last 10 years. Put one in,"

Zidane wasn't... imo...

Anyway, I don't mind Vaan. He doesn't have much connection to the overall story, but, like Tidus in X, he's the best one to tell the story through, because he knows the least about the overall plot at the beginning (except Panelo, but she's pretty much a naggy, yet somehow more attractive Vaan) so it feels like you learn about things at almost the same rate as Vaan.

Yeah, but Tidus is developed as a character, and he also is fundamentally important to the story halfway through. The guy did choose to fade away so that the world would be without Sin.

Vaan really is just there for the ride, and by the end, his place could be taken by anyone. Squall himself could appear from the Ether and have as much point at the end of the game.

[Big D]

Vaan had an important personal journey - he went from uppity-but-clueless urchin to reasonably mature, worldly and optimistic airship-owner. Unlike previous 'main characters' he wasn't crucial to the salvation of the world; but he was a witness to, and participant in, those events.

[champagne supernova]

Vaan had an important personal journey - he went from uppity-but-clueless urchin to reasonably mature, worldly and optimistic airship-owner. Unlike previous 'main characters' he wasn't crucial to the salvation of the world; but he was a witness to, and participant in, those events.

I haven't played Revenant Wings. Because that personal journey must occur then.

I know he is a participant in the events, but after about a third of the game, he is almost entirely a peripheral character. He really is just tagging along for the ride.

[ReloadPsi]

Balthier clearly takes Vaan under his wing as well, which is another nice twist on how one plays the main character; playing the sidekick of the other prospective main character. And he was less whiny than Raiden too.

[Wolf Kanno]

Vaan had an important personal journey - he went from uppity-but-clueless urchin to reasonably mature, worldly and optimistic airship-owner. Unlike previous 'main characters' he wasn't crucial to the salvation of the world; but he was a witness to, and participant in, those events.

I haven't played Revenant Wings. Because that personal journey must occur then.

I know he is a participant in the events, but after about a third of the game, he is almost entirely a peripheral character. He really is just tagging along for the ride.

It actually happens in XII, by RW he's starting to establish himself as an Sky Pirate whereas the ending to XII has him finally getting his first airship.

Vaan is a realistic take on the "coming of age" story. He's far more mature by the ending of XII than he was when it started. He's still reckless and a bit innocent but not everyone needs to have a complete transformation from childhood to manhood like you see in so many other JRPGs. I found it quite refreshing that we watch Vaan mature and become cooler through the series rather than him having some grand epiphany that transforms him and allows him to be able to handle anything.

The difference between Vaan and say Tidus and Squall is that firstly, Vaan really isn't the main character like those two were and the story of XII is told from a variety of perspectives whereas VIII and X's is told through Squall and Tidus' point of view exclusively. I felt it was ok to have Vaan fall into the background a bit so we can see different perspectives like Lady Ashe and Balthier. Just a difference in writing styles. :D

[Markus. D]

Vaan had an important personal journey - he went from uppity-but-clueless urchin to reasonably mature, worldly and optimistic airship-owner. Unlike previous 'main characters' he wasn't crucial to the salvation of the world; but he was a witness to, and participant in, those events.

What he said ^




Funny movie though :D

[Roto13]

Vaan is actually really cool in Final Fantasy Tactics A2. It's like he... ate Balthier or something.

[ReloadPsi]

Vaan is actually really cool in Final Fantasy Tactics A2. It's like he... ate Balthier or something.


Balthier clearly takes Vaan under his wing as well, which is another nice twist on how one plays the main character; playing the sidekick of the other prospective main character. And he was less whiny than Raiden too.

See? Balthier knows how to pick a good apprentice!

[Serapy]

Yes, Balthier reminds me of a cookie. I'd eat him too.

Vaan isn't that bad, actually. He's one of the most unique characters in the series.

[PeneloRatsbane]

Balthier takes Vaan under his wing and Fran takes Penelo under hers and by the end of it they better for it. but they still aren't as cool as Fran and Balthier.
tho Vaan has started wearing shirts and Penelo is dressing more provocatively, so they've taken the style tips into consideration

[DarkMateria]

lmao, imagine penelo dressed like fran.

[Wolf Kanno]

Its funny how somewhat wholesome characters like Yuna and Penelo get all whored up in the sequels while Tifa gets a conservative outfit in the sequels. :p

[Roto13]

Come on, there are way worse outfits in the Final Fantasy series. :P

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i27/rotothirteen/43694-3.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i27/rotothirteen/FFTA2Penelo.jpg

[PeneloRatsbane]

like penelo's new outfit so much nicer than the first and still not as revealing than ashe or fran.

but it does seem a trend for outfits to get smaller in sequels. I mean if Yuffie carried on in that trend she'll have no clothes,her shorts got very short in doc , and don't even get me started on Rikku.

[gjoerulv]

I feel that the FF XII character/story complaints always hangs at a demographic level. "It's not supposed to be like that". I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered what kind of story XII actually was. If you ask me it was just what the series needed. To get away from the anime like setup (though it was much anime stuff in XII too). I think that the "main stream" people don't get it/care. Why bother lol. They know what they want.


Concerning Vaan I must admit I didn't like the guy. I din't hate him, but he was the character I cared less for. When I played with Penelo I could at least look at her ass... lol kidding. :D But I see his place in the story. Or should we call it event. Yeah that sounds more fitting.

[Big D]

I feel that the FF XII character/story complaints always hangs at a demographic level. "It's not supposed to be like that". I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered what kind of story XII actually was. If you ask me it was just what the series needed. To get away from the anime like setup (though it was much anime stuff in XII too). I think that the "main stream" people don't get it/care. Why bother lol. They know what they want.Yep, most people complain about the game because it was different to the last one, when usually they moan that each new game is too much like the last one:p

[PeneloRatsbane]

I loved XII for its differences, and the characters are different. Fran is a Veria but shes also a mechanic and has a dry wit about her, she seems like shes having fun as well as being Mysterious.
Ashe is a legend, lead female who acts like a Queen actually should (take not Garnet) you can belive that she could actually sort thing out, but shes got a touch of darkness to her.

[Roto13]

I feel that the FF XII character/story complaints always hangs at a demographic level. "It's not supposed to be like that". I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered what kind of story XII actually was. If you ask me it was just what the series needed. To get away from the anime like setup (though it was much anime stuff in XII too). I think that the "main stream" people don't get it/care. Why bother lol. They know what they want.Yep, most people complain about the game because it was different to the last one, when usually they moan that each new game is too much like the last one:p

I don't think people moan enough when games are too much like the last one. Take a look at games like Grand Theft Auto and Halo, neither of which have really changed since the beginning of the last generation. That doesn't stop them from selling retarded numbers of copies.

But they definitely moan too much when games change. When Final Fantasy Tactics came out, people were saying things like, "White Mages don't cast Protect any more, Green Mages do! BAAAAWWW!" and "I can't spam Ultima at everything from the beginning of the battle! HOW WILL I EVER BE CHEAP NOW!" They can't tell the difference between drops in quality and changes. Idiots.

[Big D]

I don't think people moan enough when games are too much like the last one. Take a look at games like Grand Theft Auto and Halo, neither of which have really changed since the beginning of the last generation. That doesn't stop them from selling retarded numbers of copies.Ah, but the Final Fantasy fans are a rare breed. They *demand* innovation and revolution from TEH GRATEST SERIES EVAR, but then they run straight to the internet to complain about how those WHORES at Square-Enix have sodomised their beloved childhood memories of Final Fantasy PERFECTSHION by, I don't know, making Active Time Battles a little more Active than before.

People whined that Final Fantasy was going downhill because they were basically churning the same plot and characters, with the same combat system, and only minor cosmetic changes. A fair criticism, too, sometimes - but not when every new angle, new feature or new gameplay element subsequently cops the same flak.

People got sick of having an angsty teenage male lead who dwells on his feeeelings too much, so then with FFXII they piss bile about how the game doesn't focus on the characters' feeeelings enough. They bitched about ATB being old and boring, but then the new system trialled in FFXII is JUST NOT FF. "Waaah, summons are too cheap and overpowered" became "waaah, summons are too complicated and weak and they expect me to think."

It's something of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario for the developers - how to keep the franchise fresh and innovative while respecting what's tried and true. And tiptoeing around the "fans" who get most of their kicks out of being bitter and twisted about every nitpicky detail and start online petitions to have Lightning taken out of FFXIII because playing as a woman in a Final Fantasy is liek teh totaly gayz0rz.

[Roto13]

and tiptoeing around the "fans" who get most of their kicks out of being bitter and twisted about every nitpicky detail and start online petitions to have Lightning taken out of FFXIII because playing as a woman in a Final Fantasy is liek teh totaly gayz0rz.

I hate those people most of all, because Final Fantasy XIII is no less than the third time a female has been the main character of a Final Fantasy game. Where the hell have these people been? (The correct answer is "three feet up their own asses")

[Wolf Kanno]

This has bothered me quite a bit lately. I really loved XII. Its far from perfect and its not my favorite in the series but I really felt that it was heading in the right direction for the series and for JRPGs in general. I know alot of people play these games for plot and story but I always feel its weird that very few ever care about the quality of the game side.

One of my biggest issues with X was that the ratio of game to story was terribly off. As well as the fact that the gameplay was unique and interesting but implemented in such a way where it was almost a moot point. XII kinda did the opposite, pushing gameplay and exploration to the forefront. I enjoy its story for being mature and not drowned in "Hollywood angst" like so many JRPGs are today. The series has always done some mature things in its story telling but sometimes I feel they lay the "cheese" a bit too thick so people don't complain too much.

I really felt XII did alot for the series in game and world design. I Want them to take all of XII's strengths and build on it. The game to me was a revolution no one understood.

[black orb]

>>> Vaan is the best one hell of a guy, he trains in the sewers killing vicious rats.

and this time im not being sarcastic..

[Unstoppable Pig]

Vaan is much better than Tidus. Actually only thing that nowadays bothers me with Vaan is his outfit what makes him look like a bitch. Maybe he is bitch so he dresses like that but personality wise he is good character. He is much more heroic than Tidus who was bitch too but not with the way dressed but because he was so whiny.

You people are right, XII is a great game, its the fans who are idiotic. I mean wtf is it with always it has to be so emotional, with had video about Vaan being sad what happened to his brother. But it doesn´t need to be mentioned all the time like in X where it was nothing but: "OMG! Jecht and Auron molested me! I´m sad, I´m happy".

[crazybayman]

Great video. It made my day.

I do hate Vaan, though. xP He seems completely out of place. All of the other characters are relatively sensible and they work nicely with the overall tone of the game. Vaan acts like they found him in a mall food court or something.
Nicely done.

Yeah, he annoys the $h!t outta me too. Especially his voice, the way he talks and the way he acts. I realize this even more now that I've started playing through for the second time, for some reason. I personally would prefer Basch by far as the main character. He's a frickin' beast.

[Wolf Kanno]

I personally would prefer Basch by far as the main character. He's a frickin' beast.

Is there anyone who actually hates Basch? I've seen people state their dislike for almost every cast member but him.

[crazybayman]

I personally would prefer Basch by far as the main character. He's a frickin' beast.

Is there anyone who actually hates Basch? I've seen people state their dislike for almost every cast member but him.

Its 'cause he's a beast.

[Roogle]

I would have preferred Basch as the main character with Vaan and Penelo as temporary guests. As for the video, I think that it was well-made!

[PeneloRatsbane]

Basch is such a sweetie, he is ridiculously chipper and optamistic after all the stuff he suffered and he's so loyal and good to Ashe, even after her intial annoyance and suspicion with him. The guy is adorable. I just love him.

i love Ashe, Basch, Fran and Balthier. but i do still love penelo and Vaan just not in suck awe of them

[Seamus>Yiazmat]

I personally love every character in that game. I also loved Tidus. The only main character I didn't like was......well I can't think of one. And I don't even consider Vaan the main character, because he isn't. Vaan is as much the main character as Reks is. I would say that Basch, Balthier, or Ashe are the main character. But who knows, maybe Square Enix meant for Penelo to be the main character. We'll never know until they say so. But there wasn't a single character in XII that I didn't like.

[Ender]

I don't hate Vaan. But I do think part of Vaan's problem was that while his role is perhaps unique in the series because of the way they chose to tell the FFXII story, when they went searching for a personality to suit the role, they ended up looking at the fanboyism directed toward Cloud, Squall, and Tidus and used that as the basis for that personality.

Thus we get Cloud's determination, Squall's natural leadership, and Tidus' youthful/whimsical ambition mixed in with the standard coming-of-age thing. And while those things work out well when the story is *about* the character, FFXII shows how awkward those things can be when applied to just any teenager/young adult off the street.

The whole androgynous thing was blatant in such a non-essential character as well...resulting in it backfiring perhaps as much as it helped make Vaan more "accessible to female players."

Ultimately I think Vaan can be seen as representing Square's struggle with accomodating its broader audience. FFXII is a story of and for (young) adults, which will make up an increasingly larger part of the player base as people who grew up with the series become adults themselves, yet the story risked being inaccessible to younger players without characters like Vaan and Penelo for those players to connect with (I think we tend to sell teens short, but at the same time one's cares and concerns, and worldy experience at 14 are generally not the same as they are at 24, so there are differences in tastes and appreciation based on age).

[Skyblade]

I personally would prefer Basch by far as the main character. He's a frickin' beast.

Is there anyone who actually hates Basch? I've seen people state their dislike for almost every cast member but him.

I hate his outfit... Does that count?

[PeneloRatsbane]

what!! you mean that lil green curtain tassle doesn't warm the cockles of your heart. I pointed out that Tassle to my brother and we laughed, poor Basch, but i suppose he only got shopping time in rabanastre, maybe if he went shopping in Arcades he would have looked rather posher

[Flora]

Amazing vid, I love it xD
Thnx for sharing^^

[Rantz]

Hey Flora! This thread has been dead for a while. It's better to leave those where they are in most cases! If you have something new to add, it's often better to start a new thread on the topic in order to stimulate new discussion! :)