Iguion (in response to the Artemisia theory)

[Serapy]

So it's not only Griever that was brought to life by Ultimecia, she also brought Iguion back to life during the Deling City sequence, attempting to kill Rinoa. What's relevant is that Griever represents a lion symbol and Iguion is half lizard and half lion. Also, both of the summoned monsters were created with the intention of killing Squall and his party. :p

The question I'm going to ask you ... Is Iguion (the lion's symbolism) actually involved in the game's plot, or it's just some random mini-boss created by SE and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the game's plot?

[PuPu]

some random mini-boss created by SE and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the game's plot?
I'm just going to take a wild guess and say that this is the correct answer.

[Serapy]

some random mini-boss created by SE and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the game's plot?
I'm just going to take a wild guess and say that this is the correct answer.

I beg to differ. :rolleyes2

EDIT: Oh, PuPu. This is rather strange... er frankly, I'm speechless. At the moment, I'm playing Final Fantasy VIII. I was trying to draw something from the beach, apparently PuPu from the game has just apppeared out of no where, and that's when you posted in this thread. About the same time, er wtfux? Ironically, this is the PuPu appearance being represented in my FF8's whole career for the first time. Are you trying to put a curse on me or something? Mister PuPu?

[Marky Tee]

what i want to know is why didnt they tear rinoa to shreds in the 15 minutes i waited til bothering to move to help rinoa

[MJN SEIFER]

I dunno if Iguion is included, but I really think Lion's are supposed to represent something in FFVIII, I always though they represented Squall for some reason, and I can't see a link between Squall and the Iguions, so either I've got it completly wrong, or it's a conicidence.


And Marky, the reason your speed doesn't effect anything because the game assumes you'd be taking the realistic response.

[Marky Tee]

well you know what assuming makes out of both of us eh?
a still living rinoa

[PuPu]

some random mini-boss created by SE and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the game's plot? I'm just going to take a wild guess and say that this is the correct answer.

I beg to differ. :rolleyes2

EDIT: Oh, PuPu. This is rather strange... er frankly, I'm speechless. At the moment, I'm playing Final Fantasy VIII. I was trying to draw something from the beach, apparently PuPu from the game has just apppeared out of no where, and that's when you posted in this thread. About the same time, er wtfux? Ironically, this is the PuPu appearance being represented in my FF8's whole career for the first time. Are you trying to put a curse on me or something? Mister PuPu?
Oh noes, you figured out my secret! :eek:
*flies away*

(I still stand by what I previously said though)

[MJN SEIFER]

well you know what assuming makes out of both of us eh?
a still living rinoa

That's good beause I want her to live. :)

[Goldenboko]

some random mini-boss created by SE and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the game's plot?
I'm just going to take a wild guess and say that this is the correct answer.
I'm just going to take a wild guess the best decision in agreeing with my friend, who is normally correct with most things.

[White Queen]

dunno if Iguion is included, but I really think Lion's are supposed to represent something in FFVIII, I always though they represented Squall for some reason, and I can't see a link between Squall and the Iguions, so either I've got it completly wrong, or it's a conicidence.

well if you put it in that context, the Iguion episode is when it "all started" between Squall and Rinoa. In the flower field she said that it all started when he told her to stay close to him after he saved her from the monsters. However that's only a theory and I think it's just a coincedence that the Iguions happened to have lion-like features.

[Iceglow]

Iguion was a stone statue or rather a pair of them mythical beasts from Gabaldia's past? Gargoyles most definitely I think the fact that a lot of heraldic devices include lions, dragons, griffins, chrimeras ect ect means you're going down a road which is complete rubbish to begin with. They were simply the best thing Edea/Ultimecia had to hand to enchant to kick the crap out of Squall, Irvine and to kill Rinoa

[Big D]

I figure that the Iguions were actual creatures once, that got petrified by some really strong magic in the distant past and thereafter used as decorations. There's not really much to support this, except for the fact that it'd be weird for Edea to waste time and energy on breathing life into pure rock, just for the purposes of a 'public show'. I just assumed she de-petrified the statues back into the creatures they used to be.

As for the Iguions themselves... they're half lion, certainly, but half reptile too - and aside from dragons, reptiles don't seem to be hugely important or symbolic in FFVIII's world. There is such a thing as reading too deeply into a text.

[Serapy]

There is such a thing as reading too deeply into a text.

I don't understand your point?

The FF8 game's plot is in fact unclear (not just unclear but so many other words that can be used in this case), as intended by SE, therefore we naturally lead to think of something to make the plot more logical. Otherwise, we get confused which we don't like. How to overcome that problem? It only works if you like the game and you like theorizing about it. If you don't like FF8 or tired of people making BS theories, then it's a different story.

But if what you said is truly the case, then blame SE, not me.

Anyways, I don't think the game was unclear because SE did a bad job. Because if they REALLY have done a bad job, the game would be so different.

So tired lulz, gotta sleep now.

[Dr. Acula]

There is such a thing as reading too deeply into a text.

I don't understand your point?

Thinking too much is very bad for you.

[Serapy]

There is such a thing as reading too deeply into a text.

I don't understand your point?

Thinking too much is very bad for you.

Every human think differently, it's impossible for you to differentiate humans' minds and say oh yes that's bad?

And plus your judgement is inaccurate, because I don't exactly theorize every month, every day, every moment and every second.

If you think that thinking too hard is bad, whatever, but sitting on your chair infront of your computer is much worse. :)

[champagne supernova]

As for the Iguions themselves... they're half lion, certainly, but half reptile too - and aside from dragons, reptiles don't seem to be hugely important or symbolic in FFVIII's world. There is such a thing as reading too deeply into a text.

And Laguna slayed a dragon in that movie of his. So, the Iguion represents the relationship that Laguna indirectly has with both of them, coupled with Squall's strength, reflecting the start of a long and meaningful relationship between Squall and Rinoa -> which in fact leadst them to Laguna. So, that's what the dragon's for.

NOT!

[Big D]

Squall is symbolised by the lion, Griever. He's kind of a strong loner, like a solitary lion.

His rival, Seifer, is slimy and reptilian - like a lizard. Therefore, the Iguion symbolises both Squall and Seifer.

The front half of the Iguion is reptilian (Seifer) while the back half is leonine (Squall). This symbolises the relationship between Squall and Seifer - Seifer is always at the front, "the brains" that's in control and leading the way, making decisions and choosing the course. Squall is the ass that trails behind, dutifully following wherever the front half leads. You can see this in Squall's daft willingness to go along with Seifer's plans at the start of the game. Squall does things he knows to be stupid (fighting a duel instead of taking his field test) because he's utterly subservient to Seifer's decision-making. Even when Seifer's become the enemy, Squall still dutifully follows him around, sometimes fighting him but never beating him. Once an ass, always an ass.

And both parts of the Iguion are under Edea/Ultimecia's complete control, where they operate as a single beast. This symbolises how both Squall and Seifer were manipulated into performing the sorceress' bidding, even while Squall was busy tagging along behind Seifer.

Now, we know that Ultimecia's GF, Griever, was somehow created out of Squall's mind. This proves that a person's "inner beast" can be drawn forth and given an embodiment. Clearly, Iguion is the fusion of both Squall and Seifer's animal essences, drawn out and fused by time compression. This explains why they're joined, and why the sorceress uses them to do her dirty work. Time Compression explains why Iguion's found as a statue in Deling City - the beast was flung back into the distant past by the phenomenon.

That just leaves one final mystery: why are there two Iguion?
Anyone who'd played FFVIII will know that the relationship between Squall and Seifer is intensely erotic. There's a powerful yet repressed sexual chemistry there, since both men consider themselves heterosexual and deny any hint of attraction. Thus, the Iguion monsters represent their unspoken lust in the only way possible: the blending of the masculine and feminine part of each man. I refer to the yin-yang duality of humanity, as told in Chinese philosophy. This is clearly a philosophy that exists in FFVIII's world, too, as we can see from the Balamb Garden logo which is a stylised yin-yang image. Under this philosophy, both male and female are two parts of the whole; males contain elemental properties of the female essence within them. Accordingly, Squall and Seifer's male psyche also contain small female essences, and that's what we see in the two Iguions: One has Squall's dominant masculinity coupled with Seifer's femininity, while the other is overwhelmingly the male Seifer mated with Squall's passive femininity. Iguion A is Squall's yin and Seifer's yang, Iguion B is Squall's yang and Seifer's yin. Because these two are so compatible, so in tune with each other, their combined essences form two identical beasts, equal in power and ability. A perfect balance, reflecting the compatibility they tried so hard to suppress during their normal lives.

When Squall fights off both these monsters to free Rinoa, he's symbolically fighting against his own true feelings for Seifer, which is especially obvious when you consider that Rinoa is Seifer's ex girlfriend. In pursuing her, Squall's actually pursuing what he thinks is the object of Seifer's affections - hoping to be 'closer' to Seifer by sharing a part of his life.

Wow. When you think about it, the Iguion fight is symbolic and evocative of the game's deep or dark elements in ways I wouldn't have thought possible.




...ok, I think that's quite enough for now:p

[Iceglow]

Squall is symbolised by the lion, Griever. He's kind of a strong loner, like a solitary lion.

His rival, Seifer, is slimy and reptilian - like a lizard. Therefore, the Iguion symbolises both Squall and Seifer.

The front half of the Iguion is reptilian (Seifer) while the back half is leonine (Squall). This symbolises the relationship between Squall and Seifer - Seifer is always at the front, "the brains" that's in control and leading the way, making decisions and choosing the course. Squall is the ass that trails behind, dutifully following wherever the front half leads. You can see this in Squall's daft willingness to go along with Seifer's plans at the start of the game. Squall does things he knows to be stupid (fighting a duel instead of taking his field test) because he's utterly subservient to Seifer's decision-making. Even when Seifer's become the enemy, Squall still dutifully follows him around, sometimes fighting him but never beating him. Once an ass, always an ass.

And both parts of the Iguion are under Edea/Ultimecia's complete control, where they operate as a single beast. This symbolises how both Squall and Seifer were manipulated into performing the sorceress' bidding, even while Squall was busy tagging along behind Seifer.

Now, we know that Ultimecia's GF, Griever, was somehow created out of Squall's mind. This proves that a person's "inner beast" can be drawn forth and given an embodiment. Clearly, Iguion is the fusion of both Squall and Seifer's animal essences, drawn out and fused by time compression. This explains why they're joined, and why the sorceress uses them to do her dirty work. Time Compression explains why Iguion's found as a statue in Deling City - the beast was flung back into the distant past by the phenomenon.

That just leaves one final mystery: why are there two Iguion?
Anyone who'd played FFVIII will know that the relationship between Squall and Seifer is intensely erotic. There's a powerful yet repressed sexual chemistry there, since both men consider themselves heterosexual and deny any hint of attraction. Thus, the Iguion monsters represent their unspoken lust in the only way possible: the blending of the masculine and feminine part of each man. I refer to the yin-yang duality of humanity, as told in Chinese philosophy. This is clearly a philosophy that exists in FFVIII's world, too, as we can see from the Balamb Garden logo which is a stylised yin-yang image. Under this philosophy, both male and female are two parts of the whole; males contain elemental properties of the female essence within them. Accordingly, Squall and Seifer's male psyche also contain small female essences, and that's what we see in the two Iguions: One has Squall's dominant masculinity coupled with Seifer's femininity, while the other is overwhelmingly the male Seifer mated with Squall's passive femininity. Iguion A is Squall's yin and Seifer's yang, Iguion B is Squall's yang and Seifer's yin. Because these two are so compatible, so in tune with each other, their combined essences form two identical beasts, equal in power and ability. A perfect balance, reflecting the compatibility they tried so hard to suppress during their normal lives.

When Squall fights off both these monsters to free Rinoa, he's symbolically fighting against his own true feelings for Seifer, which is especially obvious when you consider that Rinoa is Seifer's ex girlfriend. In pursuing her, Squall's actually pursuing what he thinks is the object of Seifer's affections - hoping to be 'closer' to Seifer by sharing a part of his life.

Wow. When you think about it, the Iguion fight is symbolic and evocative of the game's deep or dark elements in ways I wouldn't have thought possible.




...ok, I think that's quite enough for now:p

I love this explanation I believe the true message in it is just this: Stop trying to give too much meaning to a game, Iguion is a monster enough said it was a statue given life and set upon Rinoa who is saved by Squall and Irvine before they all get their asses owned by matron.

[Serapy]

The problem is that we don`t know much about Ultimecia; she`s sort of like a small detailed character represented in the game and ironically she's the most type of villain that the game has to offer (main villain). Where does that leave us then? What do we know about Ultimecia? Almost nothing, just her sneaky dialogues and so many visible things around herself (her castle, possessions, images, etc.)


And Laguna slayed a dragon in that movie of his. So, the Iguion represents the relationship that Laguna indirectly has with both of them, coupled with Squall's strength, reflecting the start of a long and meaningful relationship between Squall and Rinoa -> which in fact leadst them to Laguna. So, that's what the dragon's for.

NOT!

Irrelevant, because Ultimecia wasn`t involved in that incident. She was responsible for the appearance of Iguion. Like I said before, Ultimecia's data is so small, therefore questions arise and that only works if you like the game.



His rival, Seifer, is slimy and reptilian - like a lizard. Therefore, the Iguion symbolises both Squall and Seifer.

...

I haven`t thought about the Seifer part, it's possible but nevertheless it's a good attribute for the theory.



I love this explanation I believe the true message in it is just this: Stop trying to give too much meaning to a game, Iguion is a monster enough said it was a statue given life and set upon Rinoa who is saved by Squall and Irvine before they all get their asses owned by matron.

Who are you trying to tell someone what to do? This game is one of my favourite games, I like to explore and discuss when I'm bored. You`re implying that the game is straightforward when in fact it's not.
Iguion was of course a monster, just like other monsters in the game but it was under control of Ultimecia. Keep that statement in mind and compare it with the fact that her data is so small and you get the result.
Matron? I think you mean Ultimecia!

[Iceglow]

I had a huge response written out here and some reason I just lost it, I'll write it out again at some point but Seraphy you need to chill.

[Serapy]

Sorry if you thought I was mad, because I actually wasn't. So care to explain why do you think the game's plot is straightforward?

P.S - Although, I may say that trying to understand the plot on a normal level might not be so difficult but on a high level, it's actually difficult. Based on that high level, there are evidence from the game that support it (unanswered questions when it comes to the plot = relevant). You just ignore those unanswered questions when you're on that normal level but that has nothing to do with this thread.

[Forsaken Lover]

I just want to know what was the bit about "Griever on the Moon" you said in the last thread?

[Iceglow]

I just want to know what was the bit about "Griever on the Moon" you said in the last thread?

I remember this, during the ending FMV if you watch as the Garden flies off in to the darkness of the night the moon in the background has the stylised Griever pendant shape as a Maria (latin for ocean what we call the dark patches of the moon) It really had nothing to do with anything imo but Serapy thinks theres huge mega hidden storyline references and points that only he can see. The fact he's 1 player out of how many million players world wide? Is seemingly not anything to consider when looking at this.

[Serapy]

It really had nothing to do with anything imo

Are you saying that a symbolism has nothing to do with the plot?



but Serapy thinks theres huge mega hidden storyline references and points that only he can see..

There are already some people who believes that the image on the moon resembles Griever as well. It was about 80% accurate (compare that to the Aeris ghost finding I posted in the FF7 section), the reason of why that's the case is existent. This is likely to be supported due to the game being not straightforward.


The fact he's 1 player out of how many million players world wide? Is seemingly not anything to consider when looking at this

Well, then I`m proud to be unique.

Most of all, you still haven't answered my question.


I just want to know what was the bit about "Griever on the Moon" you said in the last thread?

What do you mean?

[NeoTifa]

Squall is symbolised by the lion, Griever. He's kind of a strong loner, like a solitary lion.

His rival, Seifer, is slimy and reptilian - like a lizard. Therefore, the Iguion symbolises both Squall and Seifer.

The front half of the Iguion is reptilian (Seifer) while the back half is leonine (Squall). This symbolises the relationship between Squall and Seifer - Seifer is always at the front, "the brains" that's in control and leading the way, making decisions and choosing the course. Squall is the ass that trails behind, dutifully following wherever the front half leads. You can see this in Squall's daft willingness to go along with Seifer's plans at the start of the game. Squall does things he knows to be stupid (fighting a duel instead of taking his field test) because he's utterly subservient to Seifer's decision-making. Even when Seifer's become the enemy, Squall still dutifully follows him around, sometimes fighting him but never beating him. Once an ass, always an ass.

And both parts of the Iguion are under Edea/Ultimecia's complete control, where they operate as a single beast. This symbolises how both Squall and Seifer were manipulated into performing the sorceress' bidding, even while Squall was busy tagging along behind Seifer.

Now, we know that Ultimecia's GF, Griever, was somehow created out of Squall's mind. This proves that a person's "inner beast" can be drawn forth and given an embodiment. Clearly, Iguion is the fusion of both Squall and Seifer's animal essences, drawn out and fused by time compression. This explains why they're joined, and why the sorceress uses them to do her dirty work. Time Compression explains why Iguion's found as a statue in Deling City - the beast was flung back into the distant past by the phenomenon.

That just leaves one final mystery: why are there two Iguion?
Anyone who'd played FFVIII will know that the relationship between Squall and Seifer is intensely erotic. There's a powerful yet repressed sexual chemistry there, since both men consider themselves heterosexual and deny any hint of attraction. Thus, the Iguion monsters represent their unspoken lust in the only way possible: the blending of the masculine and feminine part of each man. I refer to the yin-yang duality of humanity, as told in Chinese philosophy. This is clearly a philosophy that exists in FFVIII's world, too, as we can see from the Balamb Garden logo which is a stylised yin-yang image. Under this philosophy, both male and female are two parts of the whole; males contain elemental properties of the female essence within them. Accordingly, Squall and Seifer's male psyche also contain small female essences, and that's what we see in the two Iguions: One has Squall's dominant masculinity coupled with Seifer's femininity, while the other is overwhelmingly the male Seifer mated with Squall's passive femininity. Iguion A is Squall's yin and Seifer's yang, Iguion B is Squall's yang and Seifer's yin. Because these two are so compatible, so in tune with each other, their combined essences form two identical beasts, equal in power and ability. A perfect balance, reflecting the compatibility they tried so hard to suppress during their normal lives.

When Squall fights off both these monsters to free Rinoa, he's symbolically fighting against his own true feelings for Seifer, which is especially obvious when you consider that Rinoa is Seifer's ex girlfriend. In pursuing her, Squall's actually pursuing what he thinks is the object of Seifer's affections - hoping to be 'closer' to Seifer by sharing a part of his life.

Wow. When you think about it, the Iguion fight is symbolic and evocative of the game's deep or dark elements in ways I wouldn't have thought possible.




...ok, I think that's quite enough for now:p


... o.o this HAS to be a joke...... XD omgomgomg squallxseifer pr0n!!!!