Proving An Elementary Science Lesson Wrong With Two Questions

[The Ceej]

In elementary school science we learned a few things about the tongue and flavors.

We learned that all food falls among the only four flavors: Salty, sweet, sour, and bitter.

I can prove that wrong with this unanswerable question:
Describe the flavor of a white onion using only the terms, salty, sweet, sour, and bitter.

We also learned that each of these flavors has a designated part of the tongue that can only taste that flavor and nothing else.

I can prove that wrong with this unanswerable question:
Why is it that you can taste any food on any part of your tongue?

And don't tell me I'm the only person who can do that. That is highly unlikely.

[Værn]

Aren't flavors a combination of taste and smell?

[scrumpleberry]

You're applying this basic explanation to something it is not supposed to be applied to: this is for little people to help them break down the curiousness of food. Food is highly complex and different parts can be tasted on each bit of your tongue. STOP RUINING PEOPLE'S CHILDHOODS.

[Momiji]

Aren't flavors a combination of taste and smell?

Yes.

This is why in that 'which sense would you give up' thread, I kept wondering why on earth anyone would give up smell, when it makes them lose their sense of taste as well.

[Peegee]

Aren't flavors a combination of taste and smell?

Yes.

This is why in that 'which sense would you give up' thread, I kept wondering why on earth anyone would give up smell, when it makes them lose their sense of taste as well.

It would negate some aspect of taste but not all of it. I do know what you're referring to (it's why we hold our breath to eat something yucky).

The topic question is not sensibly asked. Onions have a combination taste. You're also forgetting Umami.

[Momiji]

The topic question is not sensibly asked. Onions have a combination taste. You're also forgetting Umami.

I thought that was still in question of whether that was a real taste or not. o_o

EDIT: Well, of course it's a real taste, but I meant 'accepted with the 'sweet, sour, salty, bitter'' tastes.

[The Ceej]

Aren't flavors a combination of taste and smell?

Yes. And that also is evidence against this elementary school science lesson.


The topic question is not sensibly asked. Onions have a combination taste.

Then answer the question. No one said you can't use more than one of the selectable options. If you cannot answer the question (and you can't), then that disproves this elementary school science lesson.

[Momiji]

Well you also have to remember that this is an elementary science lesson. You can't get too deep into detail without confusing kids. And while it isn't completely right, it does seem that some parts of the tongue perceive particular tastes better than other places.

[The Ceej]

And when I told my fifth grade teacher, "I can taste anything on any part of my tongue," she replied with, "Of course you can because you're different from everyone else."

She was the worst teacher I ever had. I hope she's dead now.

EDIT: I looked up "umami" in the dictionary. It's not a word.

[Momiji]

Then that's more the fault of your teacher than the subject of elementary science itself. :p

[Lawr]

Onions are a combination.

Kind of like how 'Savory' is not a word, but you can use it to describe the taste of something like meat.

[The Ceej]

People keep saying onions are a combination but fail to say what is involved in the combination.

That's like if you said, "Pepper is not one of the four basic spices, parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme," and I said, "It's a combination," without specifying anything in greater detail.

According to my dictionary, savory is a word with multiple definitions. I'd type them all out, but I have to leave for work in five minutes. I trust you all know how to use your dictionaries.

[Wind_Falcon]

lol Now that I think about it the English language doesn't have a word to describe this taste...Suck a poor language. In Bulgaria we have a word specifically for this kind of taste.

[Lawr]

Oh sorry there were like 10,000 posts that popped up when I made mine.

I'd think onions would be a combination of sour and salty?

[Remulak]

There are 5 tastes, not four.

[Lawr]

Yeah, you forgot greasy.

[Remulak]

Umami, you hoser.

[Balzac]

This is a life changing theory right here.

[Peegee]

Umami, you hoser.

Exactly.

There isn't an onion receptor in your tongue.

[Wind_Falcon]

Umami, you hoser.

Exactly.

There isn't an onion receptor in your tongue.

Then how do you feel its unique taste. :lol:

[Madame Adequate]

This is a life changing theory right here.

For true.

Man deserves an Ig Nobel Prize.

[Vivisteiner]

Whenever Science is taught in schools, it is always a simplified model. At Primary school, the model is extremely simple. At older ages it is more complex, but still misses out key ideas. Even at the very ends of scientific understanding, the best scientists can do is create extremely accurate models.

Take the atom, for example, as you go from elementary school to the very hight levels.

A ball of matter ------> Negative electrons orbiting a positive nucleus---> a nucleus made of quarks bonded by the strong force, surrounded by electrons in shells and sub-shells, moving unpredictable as dictated by quantum mechanics, to form a 'cloud' of probabilities.

[Old Manus]

I suppose elementary school science is an acquired taste.

[rubah]

Aren't flavors a combination of taste and smell?

Yes. And that also is evidence against this elementary school science lesson.
my kindergarten teacher taught us about the smell+taste thing in addition to the other stuff.

[Ouch!]

I suppose elementary school science is an acquired taste.
Wow.

[Roto13]

*facepalm*

[Madame Adequate]

I suppose elementary school science is an acquired taste.

I guffawed heartily, good chap.

[Yar]

I was also taught in elementary school that Pluto was a planet.

Little did they know. :p

[Sir Lancealot]

I was also taught in elementary school that Pluto was a planet.

Little did they know. :p

Yeah, isn't Pluto a dog.

[Big D]

In elementary school science we learned a few things about the tongue and flavors.

We learned that all food falls among the only four flavors: Salty, sweet, sour, and bitter.

I can prove that wrong with this unanswerable question:
Describe the flavor of a white onion using only the terms, salty, sweet, sour, and bitter.Flavours like that are comprised of bits and pieces of the other 'basic' flavours.
We also learned that each of these flavors has a designated part of the tongue that can only taste that flavor and nothing else.

I can prove that wrong with this unanswerable question:
Why is it that you can taste any food on any part of your tongue?The tongue's quite small, so food gets spread across its surface relatively fast. You have to try really hard to apply a substance on only one area. And, as has been mentioned, most foods contain various flavours - so you'll get a reaction from just about any part of your tongue.

Here's a good test - wasabi, as most know, has a very strong flavour which creates quite a reaction. So, dab a spot of wasabi on the very front of your tongue. Observe the results. Once the taste has subsided, dab another spot of wasabi on the very back of your tongue. It'll barely register.

Much like the use of "punnet squares" to describe allele interactions, school science class does indeed simplify some things for the sake of simplicity and clarity. The basic principles are correct, though - in this case, the idea that the human tongue has different regions that are sensitive to different basic flavour types.

[Akaria]

EDIT: I looked up "umami" in the dictionary. It's not a word.
/headdesk

I don't know much about it, but damn near everything about the human body can become extremely complex. Onions are a combination of, I believe, all of the senses; however, the varying ratios are up for debate, I'm sure.

[qwertysaur]

If you break it down far enough, sweet salty bitter and sour describe more than you expect.

Sweet is saccarides and the like.

Salty is ionic compounds.

Sour is acids

Bitter is bases.


I think the amount of Protein is texture. Fats is dryness and amount of flavor.

Your taste buds have a lock and key system similar to enzymes, so different shaped particles trigger different buds. Fats also help the particles get into the buds, enhancing flavor.

Different areas of the tongue do have higher amounts of certain receptors, but because of the moist environment, it is difficult to keep food in one place.

[Cyric]

There's a way to figure out the "tastes" of an onion...test the pH of the juice.

Then once the onion is completely dry...take a bite and TA-DA!

[The Ceej]

There are 5 tastes, not four.



Umami, you hoser.


EDIT: I looked up "umami" in the dictionary. It's not a word.

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

[rubah]

You need a better dictionary then.

[Roto13]

Or an encyclopedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami)

[Madame Adequate]

Proving The Ceej Wrong With One Question

Are you The Ceej?

[The Ceej]

You need a better dictionary then.


Or an encyclopedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami)

Yeah. Wikipedia is a valid source. Because if it can be edited by anyone, that's the only way to make it accurate.

My dictionary is Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary which was the official dictionary of my school when we learned this.

[Momiji]

Okay, this is where you stop resisting.

Just google umami. 519,000 results can't be all wrong. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=umami&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=) Not only that, it also means your dictionary is old. Upgrade thyself.

[Shlup]

It's a myth anyway.

[Madame Adequate]

You need a better dictionary then.


Or an encyclopedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami)

Yeah. Wikipedia is a valid source. Because if it can be edited by anyone, that's the only way to make it accurate.

Actually Wikipedia has been found to contain about the same number of errors as the Brittanica. :monster: Concerns about Wikipedia are more valid on stylistic than accuracy issues.

Source: Access : : Nature (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/full/438900a.html)

[Chemical]

Aren't flavors a combination of taste and smell?

yes.

-------

The word taste comes from the latin word "taxare" meaning "to touch, estimate, or judge."

BASIC ANATOMY:

The taste buds are the sensory unit of the tongue, and the 10,000 + taste buds are mainly found on the tongue's papillae (some are found on the soft palate of the roof of your mouth, inner cheeks, pharynx and epiglottis).

There are two major taste bud cells:
gustatory cells:
have projections known as gustatory hairs that are the sensative portion; they emit signals from a stimulus to the cell which then sends a signal to the brain.
& basal cells.
they act as stem cells, dividing and differentiating into new gustatory cells.


BASIC TASTE SENSATIONS:

Taste can be grouped into 5 basic "qualities":
1. sweet (elicited by sugars, saccharin, alcohols and some amino acids)
2. sour (elicited by acids)
3. salty (elicited by metal ions)
4. bitter (elicited by alkaloids)
5. umami (relatively new. associated with the quality of taste in teas; japanese meaning delcious; elicited by most amino acids)

Taste is a mixture of all the above since most taste buds respond to 2 or more taste qualities.

Understandably, people think that smell is a part of taste. However, semantics, taste is restricted anatomically and physiologically to the tongue where as smell is restricted to the nasal cavity and olfactory bulbs.

Together they create the experience of "taste" or "flavour" but this taste should not be confused with medical terminology taste that is defined as the sensory response to chemicals being dissolved by saliva.

So it all depends on how you're using the word.
If you're out at dinner with friends then it's an all encompassing experience that combines taste and smell ~ however, if you're on a date with a doctor he might call you out on that one and jeez won't your face be red.


[SOURCE:
Hoehn, K., & Marieb, E. (2007). Human anatomy & physiology (7th ed.). San Francisco: Pearson Benjamin Cummings.]

[Shlup]

This thread has inspired me. I'm going to randomly throw in things that are completely wrong when teaching my science class.

[Lawr]

:monster: I hope you know Wikipedia usually has citations at the bottom of the page.

Edit
STOP POSTING BEFORE I DO.

[Chemical]

This thread has inspired me. I'm going to randomly throw in things that are completely wrong when teaching my science class.

I'm going to forgive you souly on the basis that you obviously didn't see my post before you responded.
:P

[Shlup]

Not relevant.

[Peegee]

Much like the use of "punnet squares" to describe allele interactions, school science class does indeed simplify some things for the sake of simplicity and clarity. The basic principles are correct, though - in this case, the idea that the human tongue has different regions that are sensitive to different basic flavour types.

I tried to understand what you're getting at with that post but I can't be 100% sure.

Anyway, a clarification -- any part of the tongue is capable of discerning any of the five tastes. The idea that (for example) the tip of your tongue is the 'sweet' area is only partially correct: portions of your tongue are only more sensitive than others, not solely responsible for one um...gustatory sensation.

Here's an old article that shows how recent this discovery is (is the previous statement confusing or what?): sauce (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4692475.stm)

[Moon Rabbits]

I was also taught in elementary school that Pluto was a planet.

Little did they know. :p

http://sailormoonrealm.punt.nl/upload/sailor_pluto.jpg

THIS MAKES IT TRUE.

[Peegee]

I was also taught in elementary school that Pluto was a planet.

Little did they know. :p

http://sailormoonrealm.punt.nl/upload/sailor_pluto.jpg

THIS MAKES IT TRUE.

We also learned that there was a dinosaur called Brontosaurus. Sigh...

[Moon Rabbits]

We also learned that there was a dinosaur called Brontosaurus. Sigh...

I thought it was just renamed.

[Peegee]

We also learned that there was a dinosaur called Brontosaurus. Sigh...

I thought it was just renamed.

No a Brontosaurus was just an Apatosaurus with a different head.

[rubah]

I've been wondering for a long while why they couldn't seem to decide what to call it.

[Shoeberto]

Onions are fundamentally sweet. Eat onions with your nose pinched closed.

You can actually verify the concept by eating anything with your nose pinched closed. Try it with different colored skittles picked randomly from a bag. They'll all taste the same because your tongue only picks up on their sweetness.

You should think your theories out better, Ceej.

[Remulak]

There are 5 tastes, not four.



Umami, you hoser.


EDIT: I looked up "umami" in the dictionary. It's not a word.

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

I like how you keep on owning yourself. I don't even have to do anything!

[The Ceej]

What, Remulak? The fact that it's not in my dictionary adds to your argument? I highly doubt that.

[Remulak]

Argument? You're pretty much arguing against yourself. I'm simply correcting your lack of knowledge on the subject.

[Roto13]

Protip: Your dictionary is not a list of every single word ever spoken.

[The Ceej]

I do believe, if it were a word at the time, my dictionary would have said so. Since it wasn't even a word then, I suspect it's something people are expecting me to believe has been a word the whole time that they just forgot to teach me at the time.

Again, I highly doubt that. Not even all te alcohole that's in me can get me to believe that.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

Umami has always been a word, just not a borrowed one in English until recently. Also: umami (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/umami). Apparently, it has been adopted into the English language since 1979.

This thing is kinda like how Pluto is no longer a planet.

Heh, in grade 4, my supply teacher tried to tell me that Jupiter did not have a ring. I told her she was wrong, which she was, even though my friend try to tell me she's the teacher so she should know better than me.

[Loony BoB]

I do believe, if it were a word at the time, my dictionary would have said so.
Out of curiosity, what is the date on your dictionary?

I bet we can find a bunch of words that are indeed words that aren't in your dictionary, regardless of how old they are. Seriously, when dealing with science, if you think every scientific word is going to be in there then you're in for a bit of a shock. :p

[Moon Rabbits]

This thing is kinda like how Pluto is no longer a planet.


I do believe I already scientifically disproved this in this very thread.

[Peegee]

It would help if you didn't rely on a grade school science textbook for your scientific learning. I mean, it's a good start and/or useful when you don't want to waste time learning 5000 complicated words and just want the explanation (for example, reading children's books about the four seasons is easier than going through wikipedia for an explanation of orbital tilt and surface area/sunlight correlation)

Finally a dictionary is just a list of words and their definitions. It's not an exhaustive list of a language's lexicon.

[Chemical]

I do believe, if it were a word at the time, my dictionary would have said so. Since it wasn't even a word then, I suspect it's something people are expecting me to believe has been a word the whole time that they just forgot to teach me at the time.

Again, I highly doubt that. Not even all te alcohole that's in me can get me to believe that.


Umami isn't in my dictionary either, but PG and I agree that this is because it's a medical term.

If you have time; read my previous post, i'm not here to lie to you or give you false information because I get http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifs and giggles from it; :) Currently I'm a student-nurse learning about anatomy and physiology. (This isn't necessarily a reason to trust me over anyone else - but I have made science my life and my love)

In a way you're right because the word taste has several definitions. One is a casual use referring to the entire experience of food. The other is a very technical use referring to specific scientific processes. In this instance I believe you've just mixed the to together; which is easy to to do; but over complicates the issue.

You're not the only one either, several people here are understand taste as a combination of taste and smell. This is the more casual definition. I think one thing to understand is that this definition works! but only if you try not to back it up with scientific evidence because this evidence is meant to prove taste in a more specific anatomical and physiological way. (so you might end up stepping on your own toes).

[Roto13]

I do believe, if it were a word at the time, my dictionary would have said so. Since it wasn't even a word then, I suspect it's something people are expecting me to believe has been a word the whole time that they just forgot to teach me at the time.

Maybe you should look up the word "hubris" in your dictionary.

[The Ceej]

I do believe, if it were a word at the time, my dictionary would have said so.
Out of curiosity, what is the date on your dictionary?

The copyright on my dictionary is 1991. I refuse to get a dictionary they make these days due to the inclusion of 50,000 new "words" that aren't really words like def, McJob, and that load of new ones they added this year that I can't remember. I refuse to have my dictionary bogged down with groups of letters that aren't real words.



I do believe, if it were a word at the time, my dictionary would have said so. Since it wasn't even a word then, I suspect it's something people are expecting me to believe has been a word the whole time that they just forgot to teach me at the time.

Maybe you should look up the word "hubris" in your dictionary.

I already did that some time ago. It doesn't apply in this thread.

And now, here's where I address the arguments that Google results and Wikipedia articles makes something a word:

Shipoopi has 58,500 Google entries (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=shipoopi&spell=1) and a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipoopi). Does that make it a real word?



Chemical has a good point. If only all the posts were like hers instead of, "Oh my God, Ceej is talking. He must be wrong. Let's go remind him of how wrong he is without even considering what he has to say."

Some onions have a sweet flavor, yes. White onions do not. That's why I chose them. If I would have said onions in general, you could assume I meant Vidalias or Peru onions.

And I do understand that things have changed since we were all in elementary school. Pluto is no longer a planet, even though I maintain it is. Why shouldn't it be a planet? No one has yet given me a valid reason why Pluto was demoted from planet to rogue moon, or whatever the hell it is this week. But this wasn't even true when I was taught it. Or maybe it was over-simplified. But it's misleading when you say, "ALL flavors can be broken down into THE ONLY four tastes," even if you argue that it was over-simplified.


And I was never taught evolution in school. Something about people not wanting me to be misled by the lies scientists are using to turn people away from Christ. The closest thing I got was a paragraph on how the natural selection part of it works and then a sentence which specifically states, "This is not evolution." I had to learn everything I know about evolution, which is still not very much, from the internet.

I know I'm getting off topic, but hell. I'll do it in my own thread if I want to. I have a massive hangover.

[Roto13]

*facepalm*

[demondude]

I believe Pluto wasn't large enough to constitute the planet title, right?

[Old Manus]

I do believe, if it were a word at the time, my dictionary would have said so.
Out of curiosity, what is the date on your dictionary?

The copyright on my dictionary is 1991. I refuse to get a dictionary they make these days due to the inclusion of 50,000 new "words" that aren't really words like def, McJob, and that load of new ones they added this year that I can't remember. I refuse to have my dictionary bogged down with groups of letters that aren't real words.logic error

[The Ceej]

I believe Pluto wasn't large enough to constitute the planet title, right?

I believe Pluto is larger than Mercury. Isn't Mercury still a planet?





I do believe, if it were a word at the time, my dictionary would have said so.
Out of curiosity, what is the date on your dictionary?

The copyright on my dictionary is 1991. I refuse to get a dictionary they make these days due to the inclusion of 50,000 new "words" that aren't really words like def, McJob, and that load of new ones they added this year that I can't remember. I refuse to have my dictionary bogged down with groups of letters that aren't real words.logic error

I suppose I can switch brands. Not all dictionaries are doing that. Just Merriam Webster.

[Chemical]

Or maybe it was over-simplified. But it's misleading when you say, "ALL flavors can be broken down into THE ONLY four tastes," even if you argue that it was over-simplified.

I think the keywords here are taste and flavour.

Taste can be broken down into 5 tastes (arguably, umami is under consideration I'll consider it a subsection of taste since it's a part of a recently published anatomy and physiology text book I'm being taught from cited in my third post up). Mind you - taste is also a mixture of these subsets to varying degrees so there is the experience of maybe sweet & sour, or umami & bitter; for instance.

Flavour, on the other hand, can be broken down into tastes and smells.

Maybe this helps satisfy everyone in the arguement. ? :)

[Old Manus]

Mercury is significantly larger than Pluto.

[demondude]

I think you need to go back to elementary school Ceejie. : p

[Værn]

I believe Pluto wasn't large enough to constitute the planet title, right?It's a dwarf planet. Apparently they aren't considered "real" planets any more :(

[demondude]

As long as Uranus remains a proper planet. I'm content.

[The Ceej]

Mercury is significantly larger than Pluto.

That's not what I learned in college. So, unless Mercury grew or Pluto shrank, one of us learned wrong.

We were taught, in college, that Mercury was the smallest planet, and at that time, Pluto was still a planet, though by the end of the semester, it wasn't anymore.


EDIT: Come to think of it, we learned all that same information in high school, middle school, and elementary school. So, unless all of my schools were out to misinform me, which is highly unlikely, then Mercury is smaller than Pluto.

[demondude]

Pluto's mass is 25 times smaller than Mercuries, I might have been wrong by implying it was the size specifically.

[Quindiana Jones]

Good God, Ceej, were you taught by 3 year olds?

[The Ceej]

Well, mass and size are two different entities.

I doubt they're going to judge whether a rock is a planet or not on solely mass. I know I won't. Besides, Pluto has a moon.

And now, don't go doing what my college science instructor did, once he learned and informed us that Pluto was no longer a planet, and claim I saying every planet that doesn't have a moon isn't a planet.


EDIT:

Good God, Ceej, were you taught by 3 year olds?

It had to have been a major conspiracy if I were taught wrong because it was countless teachers across four schools and they had textbooks that confirmed everything they were teaching me. And then, they'd either have to misteach the other students in the classes or get them in on it. I highly doubt it. It's highly unlikely.

FURTHER EDIT:
I've done some research and apparently Mercury is bigger than Pluto (http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/astronomy/art13319.html). However, I found something else interesting. I wasn't the only one who was taught Mercury was smaller (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080212031625AAFvjQ7).

MORE EDITING:
According to this (http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:UAsiYu_O1QgJ:www.boydsmillspress.com/pluto.pdf+%22I+was+taught+mercury+was+smaller+than+pluto%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us), this is why we were taught that:

At one time astronomers thought Pluto was bigger than Mercury. Now we know that Pluto is only half the diameter of Mercury.

[rubah]

I ate some lemons at lunch today and they were much more pronounced on the top of my tongue than further back. I'm going to see if this correllates to any 'taste maps' I can find online.

[edit- I looked for some that tried to show concentration of different receptors, but I got bored after finding results for cow tongues and chicken tongues but not people tongues. I guess they haven't dissected enough tongues to find taste buds yet. I did find one of ceej's beloathed taste maps that indicated that perhaps there were fewer taste buds total at the portion of tongue where I couldn't taste much, so take that for what it's worth.]

[demondude]

Maybe they taught you wrong for the laughs. :bigsmile:

[The Ceej]

The taste maps in my fifth-grade text book say that the front of the tongue is for sweet. Yeah, well, for me, it's the entire tongue and I highly doubt I'm the only one.

[rubah]

I would try sweet, but I'm not allowing myself to have sugar right now :( I do have some pistachios, so let me get back to you in a few minutes re: salty.

[Edit- yes to salty on the sides, and the very back (gagging on a pistachio is not pleasant:() but not on the top and obviously, yes the tip.]

[The Ceej]

Come to think of it, I might have a packet of Arby's Horsey sauce in my fridge. I'd be willing to do that wasabi test it with it. I'll get back to you on that. If I don't, it means I couldn't find any.

[Roto13]

The taste maps in my fifth-grade text book say that the front of the tongue is for sweet. Yeah, well, for me, it's the entire tongue and I highly doubt I'm the only one.

Apparently your tongue is as messed up as the rest of your head.

[The Ceej]

The taste maps in my fifth-grade text book say that the front of the tongue is for sweet. Yeah, well, for me, it's the entire tongue and I highly doubt I'm the only one.

Apparently your tongue is as messed up as the rest of your head.

At least my head is bringing more to this conversation. I don't see you doing anything other than reaction shots.

[rubah]

I can't stop eating pistachios now ;.;

[The Ceej]

Yeah. And I found a whole bunch of packs of Arby's sauce but not a single pack of Horsey sauce.

EDIT:
I like how every time Ceej admits when he's wrong, everyone just drops the subject and pretends it never happened. My theory is that people want to believe that's not at all like Ceej and if people recognize it happens, then they have to concede that Ceej does that.

Besides, it's not like that subject was what this thread was about anyway.

[Shoeberto]

Mercury is significantly larger than Pluto.

That's not what I learned in college. So, unless Mercury grew or Pluto shrank, one of us learned wrong.

We were taught, in college, that Mercury was the smallest planet, and at that time, Pluto was still a planet, though by the end of the semester, it wasn't anymore.


EDIT: Come to think of it, we learned all that same information in high school, middle school, and elementary school. So, unless all of my schools were out to misinform me, which is highly unlikely, then Mercury is smaller than Pluto.
Things in science change and ideas are refuted. Nothing is absolutely concrete, everything is a theory. So if your schoolbooks had outdated text and your teachers never bothered to find out different that doesn't mean that it didn't change.

Which brings along the next thing I want to say, which is that you state things as if they are concrete irrefutable fact instead of presenting them scientifically as a theory for others to test and come to other conclusions. And when people do present information to disprove what you say you just act as if it's a huge conspiracy against you. Not to mention that things like this are worked on in real lab environments with sensitive equipment and lots of peer review and the fact that you have a single piece of anectdotal evidence really isn't going to make some huge dent in the scientific community. Though if you think it should then you could always present it to some highly regarded scientific publication.

[Quindiana Jones]

I can't stop eating pistachios now ;.;

That's because pistachios are delicious.

[The Ceej]

I like, Hsu, how you ignored my other two edits from that post which negate everything you just said about me.

The size of planets don't change. What we know about them, sometimes does.

[Peegee]

From the information you've provided in this thread we can only conclude that 1) your elementary school used outdated educational material, and that 2) your teacher was not a rational person. Interestingly you don't need to be a rational person to be a teacher, so I am perfectly willing to accept my two conclusions as a working hypothesis.

Now, ignoring the Mercury/Pluto argument for a second, have you bothered to scientifically prove your claim yet? You've listed the four tastes (sweet sour salt and bitter), but you've clearly forgotten the asian taste of MSG, which is the fifth taste. That's right, asian pried rice, bitches.

Next, if you were to look at this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gray1018.png) illustration, you'll not only notice that there are different taste buds, but that they are all grouped together, not separated by type. Ergo the entire notion of 'taste centers' (ie that you taste sweet at the tip of your mouth) is wrong.

By the way Ceej, how goes suing your local telephone company?

[Madame Adequate]

This thread is such epic self-pwnage on a scale legendary even for The Ceej. I can't help but stick my nose in.


Well, mass and size are two different entities.

I doubt they're going to judge whether a rock is a planet or not on solely mass. I know I won't. Besides, Pluto has a moon.

No, they don't do that. The IAU defines a planet thusly;



The IAU members gathered at the 2006 General Assembly agreed that a "planet" is defined as a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.


Pluto hasn't cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and thus is considered a dwarf planet.


And now, don't go doing what my college science instructor did, once he learned and informed us that Pluto was no longer a planet, and claim I saying every planet that doesn't have a moon isn't a planet.

If we're going to get technical, Pluto and Charon are a binary system - neither is really a moon (Although the IAU hasn't got around to giving a specific definition for dwarf planet binary systems, so it's not entirely unreasonable to call Charon a moon of Pluto.)

But yeah long story short the presence of orbital bodies does not qualify something as a planet cf. The Sun.

[Peegee]

I believe Pluto wasn't large enough to constitute the planet title, right?

I believe Pluto is larger than Mercury. Isn't Mercury still a planet?

Pluto is not larger than Mercury; Besides, that's not all that constitutes a planet.

A planet is defined as a celestial object that:

1) has sufficient mass as to overcome rigid body forces such that it becomes somewhat spherical.

Pluto actually has accomplished this as it is spherical.

2) has "cleared the neighbourhood" , meaning that its orbit is not interfered by other objects. All major planets in the solar system do not interfere with other celestial objects. Pluto however crosses paths with various objects, like the Kupier belt

Consequently Pluto is a dwarf planet, like the dwarf planet Ceres which sits happily between Mars and Jupiter, in the comet belt.


What's funny is that a dwarf planet by the name of Eris is actually bigger than Pluto and not found until 5 years ago (2003). Also the definition of a planet has changed. The proper definition has been in use since 2006.

Remind me again what year your textbook was? Shouldn't you update to a more recent book? I don't use textbooks from the 1700s when I want to learn about things. You shouldn't use books from the 1980s.


But yeah long story short the presence of orbital bodies does not qualify something as a planet cf. The Sun.

Nitpick: a planet ceases to be a planet if it gets to be a certain size: specifically when Nuclear fusion starts to happen

[The Ceej]

The textbook was from the late 1990's in college.

The high school, middle school, and elementary school textbooks with the same information were also up to date for their times.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

Technically, only the Earth's satellite is called "Moon", all the other planets just have satellites though calling them moons is common within normal everyday discourse.

Also, not all planets are made of rock. Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are believed to be gaseous (not too sure about the last two). Whether or not Pluto is undecided.

Also if you were to discount planets without satellites, you'd have to include Venus as well.

[Loony BoB]

MORE EDITING:
According to this (http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:UAsiYu_O1QgJ:www.boydsmillspress.com/pluto.pdf+%22I+was+taught+mercury+was+smaller+than+pluto%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us), this is why we were taught that:

At one time astronomers thought Pluto was bigger than Mercury. Now we know that Pluto is only half the diameter of Mercury.
It should be noted also that according to your linked article, this was disproved in the 1970's. You have stated that your textbook was from the 1990's.

It is possible that rather than being taught incorrectly, you have actually experienced some kind of problem when learning about planet sizes, such as poor memory, confusion, dyslexia, etc.

[Old Manus]

in before http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifstorm

[Madame Adequate]

But yeah long story short the presence of orbital bodies does not qualify something as a planet cf. The Sun.

Nitpick: a planet ceases to be a planet if it gets to be a certain size: specifically when Nuclear fusion starts to happen

Well yeah, that's sort of my point. :p The Sun is blatantly not a planet, even though it is orbited by other bodies.

[Peegee]

MORE EDITING:
According to this (http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:UAsiYu_O1QgJ:www.boydsmillspress.com/pluto.pdf+%22I+was+taught+mercury+was+smaller+than+pluto%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us), this is why we were taught that:

At one time astronomers thought Pluto was bigger than Mercury. Now we know that Pluto is only half the diameter of Mercury.
It should be noted also that according to your linked article, this was disproved in the 1970's. You have stated that your textbook was from the 1990's.

It is possible that rather than being taught incorrectly, you have actually experienced some kind of problem when learning about planet sizes, such as poor memory, confusion, dyslexia, etc.

dyslexia lulz

[rubah]

neptune hasn't cleared pluto out of its path! I submit that Neptune should be relegated to dwarf planet status as well.

[Peegee]

neptune hasn't cleared pluto out of its path! I submit that Neptune should be relegated to dwarf planet status as well.

Oh no

Good thing they won't ever collide. So there's no clear teh neighbarhud issues ^^

[The Ceej]

MORE EDITING:
According to this (http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:UAsiYu_O1QgJ:www.boydsmillspress.com/pluto.pdf+%22I+was+taught+mercury+was+smaller+than+pluto%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us), this is why we were taught that:

At one time astronomers thought Pluto was bigger than Mercury. Now we know that Pluto is only half the diameter of Mercury.
It should be noted also that according to your linked article, this was disproved in the 1970's. You have stated that your textbook was from the 1990's.

It is possible that rather than being taught incorrectly, you have actually experienced some kind of problem when learning about planet sizes, such as poor memory, confusion, dyslexia, etc.

Nope. They clearly taught that Mercury was the smallest, and the textbook, from the late 1990's confirmed what they were teaching. You're trying to make me look stupid because I was taught something that was incorrect. Well, let me assure you that there's a difference between stupidity and incorrect knowledge.

There was a time when I thought the schools were there to teach you. This was during that time. It turns out they're there to conform you to society. But they even made a mistake there, because teaching information different from what other schools had been teaching others doesn't conform as we're seeing here.

And, if you followed one of my links, schools had been teaching people this through the 1990's, at least, so it's not my fault. Quit trying to make it my fault.

[Roto13]

The "umami is not a word you're all out to get me" thing is your fault, though.

[Quindiana Jones]

And, if you followed one of my links, schools had been teaching people this through the 1990's, at least, so it's not my fault. Quit trying to make it my fault.

My schools didn't.

[Old Manus]

Ah, I was waiting for the conspiracy.

[The Ceej]

And, if you followed one of my links, schools had been teaching people this through the 1990's, at least, so it's not my fault. Quit trying to make it my fault.

My schools didn't.

I didn't say all schools. I said schools, thus implying more than one school.

[Madame Adequate]

I think people are more against your whole "I'm never wrong! It's a conspiracy!" schtick than they are with you actually being wrong. Accept that you were wrong and move on, and nobody's going to care. Fight it out for 100+ posts and, yeah, even the admins are mocking you.

[demondude]

Ceej:

Harle didn't imply all schools did, he said his schools didn't. :/

[The Ceej]

I think people are more against your whole "I'm never wrong! It's a conspiracy!" schtick than they are with you actually being wrong. Accept that you were wrong and move on, and nobody's going to care. Fight it out for 100+ posts and, yeah, even the admins are mocking you.

I like how people ignore the post where I admit I'm wrong and act like it never happened. And then, they ignore the post where I say I like the part where people ignore the post where I admit I'm wrong and act like that post never happened.

You know what's wrong with you people? You think you know me so Goddamn well. You think you have this idea of what I'm like, and any time (which is all the time) I say or do something against your mold for me, you pretend like it never happened lest you be forced to admit you're wrong about me.

YOU'RE ALL WRONG ABOUT ME! ALL OF YOU! YOU DON'T KNOW ME AT ALL!

Now, that being said, let me give you a little anecdote where my younger brother and I had a conversation about this thread yesterday.

Ceej: Which planet is the smallest? Of the ones that were considered planets when we were in school?

Ceej's Brother, Apex: It's either Mercury or Pluto.

Ceej: Well, which one is it?

Apex: I think it's Pluto.

Ceej: You think?

Apex: Yeah. School taught us that it was Mercury, but I think that's wrong.

I admitted, several posts ago, that I had been wrong about it being Mercury. Now, I'm only arguing what I had been taught, but you're acting like I never admitted I was wrong.

And Roto, as far as the other thing goes, in addition to it not being in my dictionary, you guys can't even agree on what umami is. Some of you say meat. Others say tea, which is bitter and sweet. Still others say MSG, which is salty. Maybe it exists. Maybe it's real. But you can't tell me we knew about it back in elementary school. People have posted links proving they had just recently come up with it. That's like if I said trans fat didn't exist and you called me stupid for not being taught about trans fat in school when they just discovered it last year.

So, maybe umami exists, even though my Firefox says it's not a word, which means it was only added as a word in the last few months because my Firefox is fairly new, but it's so new that you guys are still confused on what, exactly, it is. Consider this the best concession you'll get from me on umami.

Now I use a huge font so you can't say you didn't see me say I was wrong on one issue, even though I've already said it twice in this thread alone, and may possibly be wrong on another. Still, I know what I was taught in schools.

EDIT: I do believe this thread is over. I highly doubt anyone can bring anything new to it.

[Roto13]

I love how right in the middle of your big whiny post where you bitch and moan that nobody believes you can admit when you're wrong, you're still refusing to admit that you're wrong.

[The Ceej]

I don't know what you're reading, Roto, in the bizzarro version of this site, or maybe you just can't read at all.

[Goldenboko]

Dang, this thread is still going on? It never ceases to amaze me how people can argue about anything. =D

[demondude]

Apex is a funny name.

[scrumpleberry]

People love pettiness. It's very difficult to try and give up on a completely lost cause over the interbutz.

[Aerith's Knight]

I feel like going to the casino, how about you, Roto? :bigsmile:

I have this system that is bound to win fail.

[Goldenboko]

YOU'RE ALL WRONG ABOUT ME! ALL OF YOU! YOU DON'T KNOW ME AT ALL!
You don't know what I got! I GOT A MANGINA! I'M OLD GREGG!!!!!!!!!



Sorry, I couldn't stop myself.


Ergo the entire notion of 'taste centers' (ie that you taste sweet at the tip of your mouth) is wrong.


Ergo the entire notion of 'taste centers' (


Ergo

I love you.

[The Ceej]

You guys are the ones that insist on arguing. I'm the one that said the thread was over. This is my last post in this thread. I'm leaving. You guys can argue amongst yourselves or flame me all the smurf you want because I'm done with it.

[demondude]

Mangina. xD

I'll be stuck with that mental image now.

[Akaria]

Well, I still maintain that an onion is a mixture of the various tastes, INCLUDING umami! What about you guys?:bigsmile:

[demondude]

Yeah, well I think Mercury is bigger then Pluto, MY SCHOOL SAID SO!!!

[Aerith's Knight]

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2944/ireallydontwanttonq6.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Roto13]

I didn't know regular users could end threads.

[demondude]

It's those damned schools, always misleading you.

[Quindiana Jones]

A 10 post combo spamfest will do it.

[qwertysaur]

remember though, Pluto is not a planet anymore. Mercury is the smallest planet from the sun now.

[Madame Adequate]

YOU'RE ALL WRONG ABOUT ME! ALL OF YOU! YOU DON'T KNOW ME AT ALL!

Now should I go with the classic, or something a little more esoteric?

Aw nuts, the classic is the classic for a reason:

CRAWWWWWLINNNGGGG INNNNNN MY SKINNNNNN
THESE WOUNNNDDSSSSSS THEY WILLLL NOT HEAAAALLLLL

[scrumpleberry]

Mangina. xD

I'll be stuck with that mental image now.

Not enough Boosh in this boys life.

Get onto that before it becomes a problem. (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h0S6vL0-u58)

[Roto13]

BITCH! Y'ALL DON'T KNOW ME! Y'ALL DON'T KNOW MY LIFE!

On a very special Maury.

[Akaria]

YOU'RE ALL WRONG ABOUT ME! ALL OF YOU! YOU DON'T KNOW ME AT ALL!

Now should I go with the classic, or something a little more esoteric?

Aw nuts, the classic is the classic for a reason:

CRAWWWWWLINNNGGGG INNNNNN MY SKINNNNNN
THESE WOUNNNDDSSSSSS THEY WILLLL NOT HEAAAALLLLL
I saw a really good ytmnd for that about an hour ago...

[theundeadhero]

My only comments before this turns into something I get the joy of closing:

1) If that's what he was taught in school his schools obviously didn't use modern textbooks. Hell, I'm older than he is and I knew Pluto was the smallest planet in elementry school. Why? My school books and teachers told me so. He said that Pluto being bigger than Mercury was taught up to the 1990s and his links even say so. No, they don't. Out of both pages he linked to one of them begins with someone thinking Pluto was bigger than Mercury. The question never mentions that's what he was taught in school or anything. It just says that's what he thought at the time. For all we know, that person graduated school in 1980, even back then they taught that Pluto was smaller than mercury, and just forgot which was smaller. The other page mentions 1990 which is where I'm guessing he got that it was taught up through the 1990s but that's all kinds of wrong. The second page says that it was discovered in the 1970s Pluto was smaller. It then mentions that in the 1990s Pluto was discovered to be in a belt of several other smaller objects. It doesn't say a single thing about teaching changing in the 1990s. It doesn't have to because teaching obviously changed in the 1970s when the discovery was made.

2) How the hell do you still refuse to admit umami is still a word? Because your Firefox spellchecker extension doesn't recognize it? Even better then that, I refuse to believe all them words are words because I don't like them being added to the dictionary! wtf?

[Montoya]

I like tasting new things, I'm not picky with food at all. Personally, I can taste food all over my mouth and it tastes good. :)

[Bunny]

Before the eventual closing of this thread, I would like to issue a thank you to all the people who took part in it. From the bottom of my heart and with the utmost meaning, I thank you for making me happy in my pants.

[blackmage_nuke]

Elementary school also taught me that 4 isnt divisible by 5 (0.8), i before e except after c (that was some w<b><u>ei</u></b>rd crap), writing with pen is some sort of earned privelage above writing with pencil, and the easter bunny, the tooth fairy and santa claus was real (none of which my parents knew about so i recieved a disapointing surprise)

Dont believe anything you learn about in elementary/primary school.

Then they told me i couldnt square root negative numbers and everyone who took drugs was evil and english was important.

Dont trust anything you learn after primary school either

[Shoeberto]

Okay at this point it's pretty much irredeemable. Thread closed.