Eyes on Final Fantasy: Posting Activity History

[Loony BoB]

http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29482&stc=1&d=1229618060

[demondude]

Wow, that's bad.

[Jessweeee♪]

D:

[Raistlin]

The hilarious part is that seems to coincide fairly neatly with my activity. Yeah, it's tough being so awesomely important.

[Rantz]

Operation: Repopulate EoFF

[Loony BoB]

The hilarious part is that seems to coincide fairly neatly with my activity. Yeah, it's tough being so awesomely important.

But 1999 isn't detailed there. :confused:

Logically, increases in activity will coincide with when people are active, you dingdong.

[Del Murder]

You would think Raistlin being more active would have the reverse effect.

I think the graph is troubling, but I don't know how we could fix it.

[Flying Mullet]

It's interesting that the spike in August 2006 is two months before the release of FFXII rather than around it.

[Loony BoB]

FFXII ruined EoFF? :(


I think the graph is troubling, but I don't know how we could fix it.
I could fix it the same way I fix the Ci-- wait, what?

[Raistlin]

But 1999 isn't detailed there. :confused:

Logically, increases in activity will coincide with when people are active, you dingdong.

SORRY, I didn't realize I would need to specify "within that time period." :mad2:

Also, yes, but I apparently caused the rest. My poking fun of fundies in EoEO plus resulting LJ entries were obviously why most people came to EoFF back in 2005-2006. :cool:

[Rye]

It may well be that since we don't have a lot of new users, our older younger members have grown up and are busy working and stuff. =O

[Del Murder]

That's pretty much it, Rye.

[Jessweeee♪]

I think the RP section may be to blame for this :spin:

[demondude]

I'd attribute it to the fact that this place has all the atrocious ads everywhere.

[Rye]

Clearly, we need to get a feature on Something Awful again to get more attention. I'm ready to be the JK Rowling of bad fanfiction again! I'll start writing. FOR THE GREATER GOOD!

PS: Get Ad-Block, DD. xD

[Flying Mullet]

Why must we grow up?

[Del Murder]

I'm guessing the ads do have something to do with it. Plenty of people still use IE and/or don't have adblock. I would not join these forums if I showed up via link and saw the ads the way they are.

[demondude]

A newspaper I read said 70% of people use IE. I'm guessing lots of people have those issues.

[Rye]

It's a pickle because on one hand, change might bring in more people, big change, like encorporating another gaming series into EoFF's coverage (thus is being EoFF+_). But if you do that, we change what we want this forum to be, and possibly loose people who have been loyal for years. ;o Toughie.

Jeez louisiana!

I wonder if other FF forums are gong through this activity drop?

I've always thought affiliating/sister sites was a good idea, but I don't think you guys do that here!

[Tama2]

One word:

Advertising.

*Points to charts and graphs with laser pointer*

[demondude]

Notice the big jump and then the gentle slope downwards. The fact that Final Fantasy is losing some of its huge popularity fits well with this, so I think more game coverage may bring more newbies.

[Tama2]

So is that a proposal to change the entire site?

[Old Manus]

Final Fantasy became uncool a while ago

[Rye]

I think little things may help. Call it silly, but little mini banners of EoFF placed in a sig of EoFFers who post in other good forums with reputable members may well bring quite a bit of change. EoFF spreading its wild oats!

DD also has a point, FF is less popular lately, after all!

[demondude]

So is that a proposal to change the entire site?

Not really, just a proposal to make some changes.

[Flying Mullet]

Like what?

[Tama2]

I like Rye's idea.

But I also agree with DD. We need some change. It's part of survival.

Unless you guys want to ride on the tail of FF XIII. It's got some hype at least.

[demondude]

Maybe a small step with all the Square games, like Dragon Quest and The Last Remnant. Alternatively you could make bigger changes, that would be harder to come up with though.

[Del Murder]

We can't really change over the whole site without getting the owners involved, and, as some of you may already know, they aren't very involved. That's good in a way since it means they won't try to micromanage or impose a lot of changes. But the bad news is that we can't really get their attention on matters that are important to us.

I'm pretty sure this decline is due to a number of factors. The ads are obtrusive. Final Fantasy is not as popular as it once was. There are many more FF sites out there than there used to be. Frontsites with forums are going out of style and being replaced with blogs. Not sure if we can do anything about most of those, but maybe you all have suggestions.

[Old Manus]

Also, GC lately is nothing but reruns of Mafia and various compo threads in which only a small number of people can participate and care about, and actual 'general' threads are pretty boring. Just yesterday I was thinking to myself that there wasn't anything worth posting in in this section.

EDIT: goddamn being at the bottom of the page

hi, people who aren't going to see my post

[Momiji]

I'm guessing the ads do have something to do with it. Plenty of people still use IE and/or don't have adblock. I would not join these forums if I showed up via link and saw the ads the way they are.

I think it's safe to say that that has a lot to do with it.


Ryechu: Affiliation assumes that people from one moribund forum will want to join another forum with reducing activity. It may cause a spike in activity for a couple of months, maybe, but the activity will inevitably go back to how it was. You see how many newbies stick around these days, after all.

Ideally, the best way to fix it is to get rid of the ads and start an EoFF-wide campaign to recruit newbies. Or bring Cid back. Or make an internet time machine that takes us back to when the forums were more active. Let's face it: like Del said, the owners are pretty passive and don't do much (being generous here); so if anyone wants to shell out the money to buy the site, I don't see things changing.

However, I think Final Fantasy is in its downfall, and the members who once graced this forum with their activity have either grown up or moved on. The amount of activity will inevitable reduce in the end. I hate to be pessimistic about it, but that's the long and short of it.

[demondude]

If the owners don't co-operate then we'll just have to hope that FFXIII lasts a damned long time.

[Levian]

Haha. I'm not surprised August 2006 is our peak. That was when Devil Man and Christmas both posted their asses off.

But yeah, the ads suck and every FF game since FFX-2 has sucked. One could possibly argue that FFX-2 sucked too, but they would be horribly wrong and allergic to water.

[demondude]

The community is also very within itself, newbies are probably clueless to all the in-jokes and such.

EDIT: Bring Devil Man back then!

[Tavrobel]

Ohh, hello, EoFF. Welcome to what me and some others have been discussing for, like, six months, now. It's nice to have this brought to the public attention AFTER the worst of it has already hit.

Additionally, I had a very nice conversation with Sam recently about just why every single idea or assumption that can can be made in this thread can either be shot down, heavily flawed, or just not as effective as one might think that they are. It has to do with one simple fact, and EoFF is shot dead in the water. But if you'd like to entertain suggestions, I'll be more than happy to tell you why they won't work.

[Levian]

Also, GC lately is nothing but reruns of Mafia and various compo threads in which only a small number of people can participate and care about, and actual 'general' threads are pretty boring. Just yesterday I was thinking to myself that there wasn't anything worth posting in in this section.

Yes, this. More interesting threads is always good. Not just that, but also interesting replies. That's what made EoFF fun and great and made me stick around when I got bored of discussing Final Fantasy.

and I'm assuming Mafia will eventually fully be moved to the Roleplaying Forum. Probably shouldn't be long now with the decline we're seeing.

[Rantz]

Let's turn the site into Eyes on Popular Music instead.

[Tama2]

How much actual traffic do we get on the front site anyway?

[LunarWeaver]

The community is also very within itself, newbies are probably clueless to all the in-jokes and such.

I obviously can't speak for every newbie, but this is how my brother felt when I told him to join. I'm not talking elitism, but more...he thought it was intimidating. He had a hard time assimilating himself, and many times he didn't know if someone was joking or being mean (not always to him, just in general).

But a lot of folks here have been friends for a long time, and thus will act like friends towards each other. It's not like it's anyone's fault or anything. What can ya do!

[Tavrobel]

How much actual traffic do we get on the front site anyway?

Very little, I assure you. I could attribute this to a lack of content update, a lack of news updates since July, and less and less people trying to get to the forums. Ohh, and ads. But those big giant, border/tables ruining eyesores totally are not the height of our worries. Never mind that they scare people away and annoy them. Never mind that they cause nothing but trouble. Never mind that we can't do jack http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif about them because the owners won't listen to any e-mail that is not titled "I want to buy EoFF."

[Del Murder]

Well, then the obvious answer is to send them an email that is titled 'I want to buy EoFF' and then asks them to take down the ads.

[Psychotic]

Nobody needs a Final Fantasy site or a site dedicated to a gaming series anymore.

You play a game for a couple of weeks, you're done, you move on. No need to stick around. That's why you might as well just join GameFAQs or something similar.

Also hey look, this thread has been linked to already. Nice work Manus.

[Momiji]

And get rid of their goldmine of a money flow? Laughable. :p

[Marshall Banana]

EoFF needs Santa.

[Momiji]

EoFF needs Santa.

Let's start a campaign to mail WM milk and cookies as an offering?

[Tavrobel]

Well, then the obvious answer is to send them an email that is titled 'I want to buy EoFF' and then asks them to take down the ads.


And get rid of their goldmine of a money flow? Laughable. :p

EoFF isn't as big a cash cow as they think it is. Supposedly, the price I've heard from them through sources is upwards of 20-30k. There's no way EoFF can be worth that, not with how we're looking right now. But the cost-prohibitive investment ensures that we're stuck where we are, unless some gentle, rich soul decides to alleviate our problems. Alternatively, we break away. I'm sure that this option has been at the forefront of all of the possible options in the Staff sections.


Nobody needs a Final Fantasy site or a site dedicated to a gaming series anymore.

As far as content goes, Psy is right. The rapid development of games is killing people. We don't have the resources of any of those large gaming sites, and with more and more games, people need more in quantity and quality. Not sure if people have noticed, but Final Fantasy has sucked for quite some time. I'd be surprised if even half of the active members here still spend more time playing the game than posting at the forums.

We do have SMRPG and ToF on the burners, but they simply are not live yet, for a myriad of reasons, but these are old games. If we want staying power, we need to cover games before they're out, and for the less important games, we need to cover them within the month of release. Problem? Our only contributions are from people that have played the game and are willing to write in spare time. Second problem? Our coders have lives, too.

[Jessweeee♪]

Half the threads on the front page of GC start with "EoFF" xD

[Del Murder]

Also hey look, this thread has been linked to already. Nice work Manus.
Any publicity is good publicity.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Half the threads on the front page of GC start with "EoFF" xD
That's what I was thinking.

[Bunny]

I joined in August 2006.

You're welcome.

[Marshall Banana]

Personally, I think EoFF needs more events and forum games (in addition to Santa).

You'd expect a forum to be bustling with fun around Christmas time!

[demondude]

Nobody needs a Final Fantasy site or a site dedicated to a gaming series anymore.

You play a game for a couple of weeks, you're done, you move on. No need to stick around. That's why you might as well just join GameFAQs or something similar.

Also hey look, this thread has been linked to already. Nice work Manus.

I got banned from GameFAQs two years ago. >=[

[Rye]

Personally, I think EoFF needs more events and forum games (in addition to Santa).

You'd expect a forum to be bustling with fun around Christmas time!

I agree. =[ No one liked Christmas Confessionals!

I think am going to to donate some money to EoFF, as long as the powers that be don't get my last name. That always makes me antsy! Nervous!

[Del Murder]

I would advise against that, <i>Miss Johnson</i>.

[Tavrobel]

I agree. =[ No one liked Christmas Confessionals!

I think am going to to donate some money to EoFF, as long as the powers that be don't get my last name. That always makes me antsy! Nervous!

Yeah, let's bare our soul to a bunch of faceless automatons that are connected to us by tubes.

I also would advise against it. Unless you're talking on the scale of thousands.

[demondude]

Maybe I'll take out a massive loan and buy the site myself. :bigsmile:

[Momiji]

Nobody needs a Final Fantasy site or a site dedicated to a gaming series anymore.

You play a game for a couple of weeks, you're done, you move on. No need to stick around. That's why you might as well just join GameFAQs or something similar.

Also hey look, this thread has been linked to already. Nice work Manus.

I got banned from GameFAQs two years ago. >=[

I never joined GameFAQs for the same reason that roto got banned here. I'd troll those little fanboys so hard. :heart:

[Bunny]

Nobody needs a Final Fantasy site or a site dedicated to a gaming series anymore.

You play a game for a couple of weeks, you're done, you move on. No need to stick around. That's why you might as well just join GameFAQs or something similar.

Also hey look, this thread has been linked to already. Nice work Manus.

I got banned from GameFAQs two years ago. >=[

I never joined GameFAQs for the same reason that roto got banned here. I'd troll those little fanboys so hard. :heart:

Uh-huh.

[Loony BoB]

I think am going to to donate some money to EoFF
How do you intend on doing this, and what do you expect to come out of it?

[Marshall Banana]

Instead you should host a contest and buy something for the winner, Rye! =O

[Freya]

Yeah it just seems that less and less people care, about final fantasy and about the site. Sure you can do some campaigning, advertising, but being a Journalism major from my learnings, you'd have to do a very big campaign to actually get activity.

Yet others are right, the final fantasy series is a dying series. Any gamers that are playing the series are casual players. Being as this is a fan site, its more for the hardcore final fantasy player. A normal gamer wouldn't go out of their way to find it.

I doubt there is a way to get those casual gamers. They have no desire as is to join. What could we really do to get them to join something they wouldn't go out of their way to join already?

If we can figure out how to gain those younger members, those casual gamers, those old fans that just don't care to search for it, then yeah we'll get more activity. As is though, with the way the FF series is going, the gaming production is going, we can't.

These days a gamer can sit and play a game and knock it out in 20 hours. When they're bored, oh hey a new game is out they can just go play that. RPG's themselves are dying out. Everything is action action action. We're the ADD generation. No longer do people really care for story and story was one of the big things for the FF series. If some how you guys can figure out how to make RPGs more appealing then yeah sure we have activity.

Really unless you guys wanna start campaigning like crazy I guess I have to take the pessimistic way and say, well we're pretty much doomed.

Then again, you could get activity from the users here. Sure you guys complain about GC not being fun anymore but are you really trying to change that? No, you just complain about it and expect others to hand you your fun. Really the only Poster that seems to put effort into making threads anymore is Rye and even she gets busy. We shouldn't have to rely on one or a few posters to keep the activity alive. You're all at fault. We can blame the games, we can blame no new people, but you guys are just as much at fault.

No one cares about it anymore because you guys aren't showing a very good example. I can't just say you guys cause I'm at fault too. Newbies come and what they see is the same thing they see in every forum. Nothing to catch the eye. Why? Cause were not coming out with anything interesting.

You want activity, give those rare new people a reason to stay.

[Miriel]

You guys. Here's what we do.

Everybody stop posting, stop doing anything to the front site, drive the activity down even further, and make EoFF worth even less. Then we'll buy the site for like $100! And then we'll fix everything we want to fix and do the renovations we wanna do.

PS. Don't donate any money guys. EoFF isn't hurting for cash. It's hurting for new members and activity.

[Del Murder]

You guys. Here's what we do.

Everybody stop posting, stop doing anything to the front site, drive the activity down even further, and make EoFF worth even less. Then we'll buy the site for like $100!

Brilliant! *bans everyone*

[Jess]

Nobody likes Final Fantasy anymore.

Hell, I haven't played Final Fantasy in like 4 years!

[Momiji]

Everybody stop posting, stop doing anything to the front site

Hasn't that been the trend since July?

[Tavrobel]

Hasn't that been the trend since July?

Some people haven't gotten the memo we put out in a post some time ago.

[black orb]

>>> I'd rather have quality over quantity..

[Shoeberto]

Some things people are saying are the same things we've been discussing in the staff forum for, well, quite some time now. The big brick wall we've always run into is that either we literally are unable to do something due to limited server access or we don't really, or don't expect anyone else to have the motivation to do something since it'd just be driving up profit for people we never see.

[Rye]

I think am going to to donate some money to EoFF
How do you intend on doing this, and what do you expect to come out of it?

With my credit card -> paypal? xD But yeah, I see your point.

I may well host a contest though and buy the winner a little something, good idea, Monda! Hmmm! Preferrably closer to the summer months, when I have a job and I'm not struggling myself as a poor college student. xD

[Levian]

I think the Newbie Committee that got started earlier was an excellent idea. Did that get scrapped or something?

[Marshall Banana]

Then again, you could get activity from the users here. Sure you guys complain about GC not being fun anymore but are you really trying to change that? No, you just complain about it and expect others to hand you your fun. Really the only Poster that seems to put effort into making threads anymore is Rye and even she gets busy. We shouldn't have to rely on one or a few posters to keep the activity alive. You're all at fault. We can blame the games, we can blame no new people, but you guys are just as much at fault.

No one cares about it anymore because you guys aren't showing a very good example. I can't just say you guys cause I'm at fault too. Newbies come and what they see is the same thing they see in every forum. Nothing to catch the eye. Why? Cause were not coming out with anything interesting.

You want activity, give those rare new people a reason to stay.
I don't think it's unreasonable for members to expect the staff to make fun for them. Staff members don't have a lot of work on their hands, anyway; this place doesn't require a lot of moderation/rule enforcement.

[Tavrobel]

I think the Newbie Committee that got started earlier was an excellent idea. Did that get scrapped or something?

I vaguely remember what you're talking about. I think people just stopped caring when there weren't any newbies to deal with.

[Flying Mullet]

I think the Newbie Committee ended up being as dedicated as the Site Staff. :spin:

[Rye]

I think the Newbie Committee is a good idea too. I'm gonna be a gayasaurus rex with this analogy, but just putting it out there... we should be like Neopets! (I was playing it the other night while FFXI decided to take 9 hours to update... xD)

When you first get started, they give you a little backpack with starting out items and kind of instructions on how to get started. Obviously, we're not going to give them stuff, but I think if someone, possibly the first person to post a welcome in the newbie thread that's part of the committee, were to then PM the person giving them like, a little speech that we prepared, explaining the forums and welcoming them to ask for help in their confusion, I think it'd be a very welcoming and fostering environment, imho~

And yeah, word up Lekana on the thread thing. Making threads is just as fun as posting in them. It gives you good melly feeling to have made a thread that people like. I feel like people who just complain are like Mr. Grinch. Make some threads, and your hearts will grow 2 sizes bigger, and EoFF will have twice the activity. Even just one relevant thread a day really helps. Try it! :bigsmile:

[Del Murder]

There is already an automated pm from Loony BoB that goes out to each new member, welcoming them to the forum and encouraging a welcome thread in GC.

[Madame Adequate]

Hey, don't look at me, I'm in the top 20 posters.

But seriously I think one problem is that the staff are somewhat set in their ways. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it's possible that good ideas have been rejected because, ultimately, change is feared. (That's an oversimplification, and not to suggest that any proposed changes haven't gone through which should have, but when you look at the difficulty we had getting 80x80 avatars... God help an attempt at a serious overhaul of the site's policies or the like.)

I also think there may be a slight excess of zeal at times. Sometimes people earn their bannings - Roto's a case in point, and although we'll miss his activity, he clearly stepped over the line a few times too many. On the other hand, we do sometimes get threads that get zapped too zealously, people banned seemingly for being annoying rather than any actual rules infraction, and similar.

I don't think the root of the problem is the staff, but I do think the staff might be an obstacle to fixing the problems at times. The thing is, the problems are significantly more than a competition or the like will fix - whilst things like that are a good idea, a spike in posting for a couple of weeks while that's underway (And in all probability not that much of a spike) isn't going to fix the endemic problems which are clearly in existence. Similarly, fun things like EoY, the Ciddies, whatever - they're not retaining members and they're not increasing membership. And when it comes to ads, well yes, the place sucks when you look at it without adblock of some sort, but the point isn't that we're not attracting new members, but we're not even retaining existing ones. People who either do have adblock, or have been around long enough that they're used to the ads (God help any such soul).

Also, it's a cyclical effect. When I hop onto EoFF, I'll look for interesting posts above all else. I'm simply not very good at making threads so I tend to have to rely on others for that, so when threads are rarely posted in, I don't get as much chance to drive up activity myself.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

To be brutally honest, the only thing I can see happening right now is EoFF continuing it's slow, downward death spiral.

To continue the community, someone would basically have to make a new site that we could do with as we pleased.

And as some have noted, Final Fantasy just isn't really too popular right now, and Square-Enix games in general have been declining in quality and are overpriced as hell (the "Square-Enix tax" as my friends and I refer to it as).

My proposal would be to make BoB go and buy a forum and then we'll all hop over and fix it up. Also make the theme more broad, such as RPGs in general or something.

[demondude]

I like that idea.

[qwertysaur]

To be brutally honest, the only thing I can see happening right now is EoFF continuing it's slow, downward death spiral.

To continue the community, someone would basically have to make a new site that we could do with as we pleased.

And as some have noted, Final Fantasy just isn't really too popular right now, and Square-Enix games in general have been declining in quality and are overpriced as hell (the "Square-Enix tax" as my friends and I refer to it as).

My proposal would be to make BoB go and buy a forum and then we'll all hop over and fix it up. Also make the theme more broad, such as RPGs in general or something.
As brutal as that sounds, it is also a possible solution. Only thing is I feel it's wrong to force only BoB to pay for a new forum for everybody. Instead, we could all help pay for the overhead, and have donations like when Cid owned EoFF. We each donate around 5 dollars. If 50 people do that, it's $250 right there. It also keeps the ads away.

[demondude]

Uuh .... I'd donate my support. :jess:

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

To be brutally honest, the only thing I can see happening right now is EoFF continuing it's slow, downward death spiral.

To continue the community, someone would basically have to make a new site that we could do with as we pleased.

And as some have noted, Final Fantasy just isn't really too popular right now, and Square-Enix games in general have been declining in quality and are overpriced as hell (the "Square-Enix tax" as my friends and I refer to it as).

My proposal would be to make BoB go and buy a forum and then we'll all hop over and fix it up. Also make the theme more broad, such as RPGs in general or something.
As brutal as that sounds, it is also a possible solution. Only thing is I feel it's wrong to force only BoB to pay for a new forum for everybody. Instead, we could all help pay for the overhead, and have donations like when Cid owned EoFF. We each donate around 5 dollars. If 50 people do that, it's $250 right there. It also keeps the ads away.

You're ruining my master plan in which I make BoB do all the work though :p

That said, I too would help donate to a new site.

[Goldenboko]

I suppose now we come to a question, how far are we willing to go to spark activity, and will the owners get involved?

Getting rid of the ads on this site, advertising on other sites, branching out, and give a reason to continually visit the frontsite (easier said then done).

The real problem is... realistically there's little reason to visit EoFF now. Helpsites (gamefaqs) have diminished the needs to ask the fanbase questions, art-only and writing-only sites (DevianArt) have robbed EoFF of a real creative fanart/fiction section, etc. That's the real problem. This is why Behold the Void has the best solution, the mere specificness of the site renders it outdated.

[Flying Mullet]

What kind of site would this be?

[qwertysaur]

Then we destroy Gamefaqs and Deviantart?

Edit: Eyes on Role Playing games?

[Flying Mullet]

We start a World War on the internet? Intriguing...

[Tavrobel]

I suppose now we come to a question, how far are we willing to go to spark activity, and will the owners get involved?

People talk big, but very few people are willing to do anything about it. And the general rule of thumb is that the owners will not get involved unless it affects them. Unfortunately, almost every action that can be taken by the community would be detrimental to them.

[Flying Mullet]

As long as this site brings in revenue, the owners won't do anything. They'll spend their energies elsewhere and leave this site to do it's thing.

[demondude]

http://www.flagline.com/images/pirates/mutiny-shirt.jpg

[Goldenboko]

What kind of site would this be?


Then we destroy Gamefaqs and Deviantart?

Edit: Eyes on Role Playing games?



We start a World War on the internet? Intriguing...

As much as I love the idea of destroying other internet sites, we do not yet have the power. :/

Perhaps the best overall strategy would be to branch out, as qwerty said Eyes on Role Playing games, only with a bigger zing to it (EoRP? Fail name D:). Some kind of unique aspect would be nice as well. "Yugiohtheabridgedseries.com" forums get a lot activity, because the frontsite has a UNIQUE aspect to it.



I suppose now we come to a question, how far are we willing to go to spark activity, and will the owners get involved?

People talk big, but very few people are willing to do anything about it. And the general rule of thumb is that the owners will not get involved unless it affects them. Unfortunately, almost every action that can be taken by the community would be detrimental to them.

The numbers talk big here too though. If we could even get a solid core of members to dedicate themselves to making something new something could be done. I think a big change is needed if we want EoFF to not spiral down into death, but of course your right we need people who care.

[qwertysaur]

So there is a third solution, drive this site into the ground, get the owners to sell it to us, then delete the stuff that drove it down in the first place, then extend EoFF to encompass the entire RPG genre

[Momiji]

So there is a third solution, drive this site into the ground, get the owners to sell it to us, then delete the stuff that drove it down in the first place, then extend EoFF to encompass the entire RPG genre

I think it would be neat if it encompassed gaming in general! < /2cents>

[Goldenboko]

As long as this site brings in revenue, the owners won't do anything. They'll spend their energies elsewhere and leave this site to do it's thing.

Which is why BtV's idea is tempting and mass exodus could be a viable solution. Again these are Radical solutions and are unlikely.

[Miriel]

So there is a third solution, drive this site into the ground, get the owners to sell it to us, then delete the stuff that drove it down in the first place, then extend EoFF to encompass the entire RPG genre

I suggested that many posts up! *points*

[Tavrobel]

I hope you guys know that mass exodus was, like, the first thing that was suggested. Ever. The problem would be informing enough of the people about it, and then even making sure people tag along.

[qwertysaur]

Here is a suggestion that I actually put thought into. Find a way to get inside contact from SE itself. That way we could get info about everything before other sites such as gamefaqs or IGN gets it first.

If you look at the site serebii.net, serebii has some sort of source from either Nintendo or Gamefreak, and he is able to get info as it's happening. Also we would need to update the frontsite news almost every day to keep a constant stream of output, getting a stream of input back in.

[Goldenboko]

I hope you guys know that mass exodus was, like, the first thing that was suggested. Ever. The problem would be informing enough of the people about it, and then even making sure people tag along.

Unimportant detail.

Perhaps ideas should be kept track of in the first post then.

[Old Manus]

imho, I can see message boards going the same way as newsgroups within the next 5 years, with the arrival of social networks giving you a much more interesting interaction with people across the intertubes. I spend more time on facebook than I do anywhere else now ;_;

[Flying Mullet]

Eyes on Final Facebook?

[qwertysaur]

I hope you guys know that mass exodus was, like, the first thing that was suggested. Ever. The problem would be informing enough of the people about it, and then even making sure people tag along.
Actually an exodus is simpler than you think. First the new site is set up with the moderators being the first set of accounts so there is no confusion with mod names

Admins send a mass E-Mail to all members. Then everyone knows we all moved.

People who don't follow from that E-Mail are either prodded by pals or forgotten.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I hope you guys know that mass exodus was, like, the first thing that was suggested. Ever. The problem would be informing enough of the people about it, and then even making sure people tag along.

Tav, seriously, we've been discussing this at least as long as you guys, probably even longer. We're aware.

[Tama2]

I like how it went from saving EoFF to killing it. I understand though.

It's to save the community not the forum itself.

[Tavrobel]

Tav, seriously, we've been discussing this at least as long as you guys, probably even longer. We're aware.

I wasn't claiming that it was SS exclusive; I'm quite informed that the FS have been discussing it as well. What I don't think is that everyone else is aware, and frankly, I think people are jumping on the idea without regard to the consequences, or even with a plan to implement it.

[Psychotic]

An exodus wouldn't solve the problem.

It might solve a problem, but not the problem.

[Flying Mullet]

And that problem is that one in three men suffer from erectile dysfunction?

[Tavrobel]

EoFF needs to start selling Viagra?

[XxSephirothxX]

I'm pretty sure this decline is due to a number of factors. The ads are obtrusive. Final Fantasy is not as popular as it once was. There are many more FF sites out there than there used to be. Frontsites with forums are going out of style and being replaced with blogs. Not sure if we can do anything about most of those, but maybe you all have suggestions.
YOU STOLE MY WORDS

[Baloki]

Actually SS have been discussing this for longer then you guys since we've discussed it in every thread since the first site sale. Most Site Staff threads go as follows now:

1. Really good idea posted.
2. Really good follow ups.
3. Site Staff become motivated and ready to leap into action.
4. No-one can get hold of the owners for permission.
5. Site Staff become demotivated with each and every post and following attempt to contact owners to take action.
6. Site Staff give up, have a general agreement that trying to help EoFF is becoming a waste of time and how it's unfair that the people who put lots of effort into the site get no reward from the people making money off it.
7. Someone brings up that Black Orb still hasn't been paid for his ace banner work.
8. Everyone gives up and the thread disappears into the darkness.
9. (Optional) If Baloki, o_O, Azar or Samuraid are motivated they just carry out the change anyways and see if anyone notices.

I think the biggest version of step 9 was when I just re-did the front site design xD Finishing it however seems pointless as a) the owners don't care and b) the members don't care...

[demondude]

I fully back the idea to switch forum. The idea to drive this place to the ground is also good, why don't the mods ban everybody for like, two weeks?

[Flying Mullet]

EoFF needs to start selling Viagra?
Apparently a third of our male memberbase needs it.

[Goldenboko]

An exodus wouldn't solve the problem.

It might solve a problem, but not the problem.

Great job posting what we just said.

Owner change is needed. Then we need to change the site overall (community for Role-playing games V. FF site). Discussing it further is futile in my opinion, it's what has to be done, and plans for that should be made. Anything else isn't going to start to solve the problems upon problems the site has.

[Tavrobel]

EoFF needs to start selling Viagra?
Apparently a third of our male memberbase needs it.

It'll save us the trouble of convincing members of the fairer sex to spend time with us. Diff EQ girl has been quite upset with me lately.

I think we should just do Baloki's Step 9 more often. The owners don't care anyways, so really, if they start raising a http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifstorm about it, just tell them "our interests are in the interest of your money," they'll back off, and we can do whatever we want. Alternatively, we can set it up so that only new members and the owners see the Ads, but not anyone else who is logged in, which has been discussed once before, but not terribly explored. I'll ask Sam about it when he gets back when the summoning is complete.

[XxSephirothxX]

Some random responses

- Demon Dude read a newspaper? I'm impressed.

-Tavrobel: What makes you think they aren't getting decent money off the ads and that site traffic is very low? If that was the case, I don't feel like they would leave the site as-is to languish. Even when I stopped doing news updates, we were still in some basic contact with them, and I believe they were making pretty good money off the ads.

-Getting some "insider" source at Square Enix is very improbable. It's not the kind of thing you get from emailing the company and asking nicely. You gotta know somebody who knows somebody, and the few somebodys I know have nothing to do with Square Enix. And even then, why would anyone give exclusive information to a http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifty fansite?

-BoB always seems to have a vB license, but starting the forum over wouldn't be a solution, as Psychotic said. It'll just be the hardcore few moving over and doing what we do here.

-I think driving the site into the ground is one of the more feasible suggestions, but as has been mentioned, if ads gives them money nothing we do will likely have any effect.

-The once-mighty EoFF, reduced to a bustling Facebook group!

-MILF: I can see us being an obstacle at times However, I would say that the general trend at EoFF has been one towards flexibility: way, way fewer people get banned and threads get closed than in the past. Of course, it's less active, too, but I think that as a whole we are more forgiving (ie care less).

-Tav: you and Momiji are the new site staffers who wanted to MAKE BIG http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif HAPPEN and you are free to enact the "just do it" step anytime you feel like it. Make stuff happpen, yo.

[Flying Mullet]

-MILF: I can see us being an obstacle at times However, I would say that the general trend at EoFF has been one towards flexibility: way, way fewer people get banned and threads get closed than in the past. Of course, it's less active, too, but I think that as a whole we are more forgiving (ie care less).
One thing I wanted to point out here is that a lot of the member base has this expectation that the staffers are supposed to do all of the work and entertain everyone. This is everyone's forum and site. If you want to see fun stuff happen, then make a thread in private feedback asking about it. A lot of the more interesting events, contests and other such things were conceived of, created and run by regular members that wanted to make something fun and entertaining.

[Tavrobel]

-Tavrobel: What makes you think they aren't getting decent money off the ads and that site traffic is very low? If that was the case, I don't feel like they would leave the site as-is to languish. Even when I stopped doing news updates, we were still in some basic contact with them, and I believe they were making pretty good money off the ads.

Compared to before, I definitely think that traffic has declined, or else just about everything else wouldn't be declining, either.

However, I never said that they weren't making decent money; clearly they are (at least, to their definitions of "decent") enough to continue ignoring us. I was using the "relevant to interests" as an excuse to do whatever we want. Just convince them, if (and only if) the owners start complaining about our initiatives. The goals of the community are quite the same, when reduced down: we want this site to stick around, and so do the owners. Different motivations, perhaps, but the goal is the same, and that justifies the means to which we acquire self-preservation.


-Tav: you and Momiji are the new site staffers who wanted to MAKE BIG http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif HAPPEN and you are free to enact the "just do it" step anytime you feel like it. Make stuff happpen, yo.

Woah, who said I was going to do it by helping the forums? Not my problem. I'm here for the frontsite. My concerns are for the frontsite, and my hands are tied by the corporate shindig.

All I need is a plastic bag, three bottles of vodka, Diff EQ girl, strategy guides for all of the games we have not yet covered, a wireless keyboard, and a 52 inch screen monitor, and I'll show you what needs to be done. And a laser pointer, because then I can point to it. I'll even not ask for a mouse, because, frankly, you don't need it to have a computer run.

[Flying Mullet]

If we were to take this forum/site in a more social networking direction to try and evolve and keep up with the times, what features would people like to see implemented?

[Tama2]

I still think the youtube idea wasn't too terrible. :p

[XxSephirothxX]

Woah, who said I was going to do it by helping the forums? Not my problem. I'm here for the frontsite. My concerns are for the frontsite, and my hands are tied by the corporate shindig.

All I need is a plastic bag, three bottles of vodka, Diff EQ girl, strategy guides for all of the games we have not yet covered, a wireless keyboard, and a 52 inch screen monitor, and I'll show you what needs to be done. And a laser pointer, because then I can point to it. I'll even not ask for a mouse, because, frankly, you don't need it to have a computer run.
Guess i didn't read what you said very closely, but what I meant was that you can feel free to do frontsite work whenever. There's nothing really stopping us from generating and posting new content. We do still have that much access.

[Marshall Banana]

I still think the youtube idea wasn't too terrible. :p
Video contest! =O

[Tama2]

I still think the youtube idea wasn't too terrible. :p
Video contest! =O

I know, right!?

[Psychotic]

You want to fix the forums? Easy. What does everyone use the internet for? Porn.

We add a new forum. Final Fantasy hentai.

Activity doubled.

No, really.

[Tavrobel]

Guess i didn't read what you said very closely, but what I meant was that you can feel free to do frontsite work whenever. There's nothing really stopping us from generating and posting new content. We do still have that much access.

I don't find that it is a problem with the process of posting my work; I am generating content when I can (and if I get my hands on Re:CoM, that'll be the next thing). I don't feel comfortable with posting information without cross-checking it with other published sources of information and eliminating as many errors as I can. But, with so many other variables to be thrown around, one can't help but feel trapped by a lack of tools necessary to ensure that nothing else gets in my way. Owners or administrative access, included.

[Psychotic]

Actually,

BoB

Can you produce stats showing the amount of posts in the General Forums as a whole in 2006 and 2008, and again for the Final Fantasy forums as a whole? Then maybe show how they've decreased as a percentage. ie posting levels in the Generals was at 80% of its 2006 level.

Some people are saying that General is the problem, with all the in jokes and the contests/mafia and whatnot, whereas some are saying it's because Final Fantasy has gone http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif.

Don't get me wrong, I suspect that activity in both has decreased. But it'd be good to know which one's leaking the most, and that hole can be plugged up first.

[Tavrobel]

You wouldn't happen to be able to pull up traffic and hit stats, as well, would you? It is my suspicion that the forums and frontsite problems are more related than we would like to admit. If we know that they are, we can start dealing with problems in a systematic manner without a fear of neglect or dispute.

As long as we have the numbers to back it up, we can do whatever http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif we want.

[Flying Mullet]

You want to fix the forums? Easy. What does everyone use the internet for? Porn.

We add a new forum. Final Fantasy hentai.

Activity doubled.

No, really.
But then you'd have to start charging for the site because the ad revenue would disappear due to ToS violations.

[Old Manus]

Get AdultFriendFinder on the phone!

[comma]

Then we'll buy the site for like $100!It's not worth much more than that right now. The site probably isn't making any money at all currently. It's a fixer-upper.

[Psychotic]

So I looked at the Fool's Gold thread again because the linkbacks at the bottom of the page are going crazy (hi to you too dude) and some guy there called Edman (hi. I hope you don't mind me posting your posts, but people will be too lazy to go to FG to see them and I think they are worth reading) had this to say.
haha, eyesonff. A year ago I asked the owners if they'd sell it. Sure. The price tag - $100,000. I lol'd. I don't think they'd ask for that now, but it would probably still be something ridiculous.

The problem of eyesonff is that every owner has grossly overestimated its worth. When Cid sold it for $25k, he and the new owner overestimated how much its worth. When the current owners now bought it for I think around $33k if memory doesn't fail me, they hugely overestimated how much its worth. It all looks so good on paper - lots of pageviews, lots of posts, big ass database. It just appears under monetized. Then you realize
1) All those pageviews come from the same people loading forum pages over and over
2) Most of the posts are just spam
2) Those who are real visitors are there to find content about a game they have already bought. They have no intention to buy anything or click on your ads.

When I contacted them, the site was already making smurf all money. When you subtract the server costs, it was making maybe $100 - $200 per month. Since then the situation in the video game website niche has deteriorated dramatically. Ringtones are making a lot lot less money (3-4 times less), and CPM ads are paying about 2 times less (there is now a slight pre-xmas increase, but January is going to be brutal). Additionally, pageviews have gone down 50% (from 1,132,000 in 07.2007 to 566,000 in 11.2008). The site received only 56,000 unique visitors in November. The way things currently stand, I'd say it isn't making any money at all. Even if it was getting traffic, scale doesn't help - I own a site that much larger than EoFF in a similar niche, and its also making close to smurf all money.

In line with that, I'd say its worth pretty much smurf all. Somebody will probably pay $10k for it because he has no idea that there is no money to be made.

It is unlikely the owners will invest further in such a site to make it come out of nothingness. Usually people like these who buy sites expect the websites to make money just like that. They are not webmasters, they don't run websites. They won't risk making a further loss by investing time and money in a website that has already made them a huge loss that they know deep within, but would never publicly admit. There isn't a whole lot going for it anyway - the site hasn't been updated for half a year, its completely missing the FF13 hype (doesn't have a section for the game at all), and it only ranks for very few keywords, so it doesn't have much SE love either. Even if it was heavily updated, it is unclear whether fortunes could be reversed.

It is unlikely the owners will sell it to anyone competent, because anyone competent knows exactly how much the site is actually worth, which is not a whole lot, maybe $5-$10k. The owners will not sell for that little, they will rather choose to hold on until its too late, or dump it on someone who is clueless.

So yeah, I'd say its pretty doomed, because it needs a full time webmaster to get it back off the ground. It cannot be done without an owner participating.
As for suggestions made in that thread:

1) Covering more games than FF is suicide. You can't even cover Final Fantasy 100%. You'll be horribly overstretched. It will just tire out active people and activity will go down even faster.

2) Creating a spin-off forum is useless. You'll never be even close as active as EoFF is.

3) Going newbie hunting is a waste of time. You'll get maybe a few dozen new members that will not make any impact on the overall situation.

4) Blaming staff is idiotic. Staff are not Gods, they cannot create life, and they cannot create forum activity. It just doesn't work that way. A few staff members can spam their way into increasing post counts (Aaron?), but that's about it.

5) Logged in users appear to not have any ads... so I don't know how blaming it on the ads works out?

The only thing you can do is to cover final fantasy, and do it well. Looks at the FAQs and the boards at gamefaqs, they are miles ahead of any final fantasy site. Good coverage for all FF games is going to get better ranking pages on Google and increase general popularity of the site. That will get more traffic, which will get more members. That is the only way out of this mess. But as I said, it literally requires a full time webmaster to run things.Interesting to see an outside perspective. The guy clearly knows his stuff.

[Flying Mullet]

I think edman's analysis is spot on.

[Tavrobel]

I would have to agree. The simple fact of the matter (in my first post) is that we were screwed when Cid sold the site. Plain and simple.

[Del Murder]

I don't understand how Sean being the owner would make things any different in terms of activity.

[Tama2]

http://forums.eyesonff.com/final-fantasy-xiii/121988-ffxiii-ingame-battle-scan-revealed.html

We already have at least some new information. Why is it just sitting around in the forum instead of on the front site.

Or even things about Dissidia.

Was the front site forgotten until now?

[Baloki]

More because we ask people for help and the response is:

"Site Staff are lazy"

We are actually pissed off with it you know. Also one small piece of content really doesn't make up a whole section.

Edit: Also if the front site was forgotten would have we spent 2 months overhauling the look and feel?

[Rye]

I think people are more bitter and disheartened about Cid being gone than anything else. I agree with Del, him being gone hasn't changed that much.

Also, everyone should stop being snippy with each other. That doesn't solve anything. lololol bitterness i'm so cool and jaded posts don't help. Saying the staff aren't doing anything doesn't help either. And whining about the new owners doesn't help either, unless you're willing to take a loan out on 20K and buy the site. It's so easy to point fingers. But until you actually do something? It's just anti-productive, silly sallies. xD

I'll say it again, everyone contributing just one relevant thread a day and trying to post in forums they usually don't post in (I've been trying to do this lately, and it's actually spurring my love for Final Fantasy again, I'm gonna play it some this vacation again!) is a good way to contribute. It's good to search for a big solution to the big problem, but while we're searching, that doesn't just mean we should just sit around! =O

[Tavrobel]

I don't understand how Sean being the owner would make things any different in terms of activity.

The decline in posting began when he sold the site. Before then, the site was a fan-based creation, and people could expect that. However, it has since turned into a cash crop, and expectations are wildly different. Though it has no direct effect on posting, what the sale of the site did was that it caused a whole bunch of problems to start floating in. Okay, so he didn't have the time or the money to support the place anymore, but not hanging onto this place caused more problems than not.

Neglect or mistreatment by the new owners? Check.
Staffers whose work was treated as though they were mandated as opposed to friendly contributions? Check.
A radical shift in expectations? Check.

I'm not trying to place blame on the man; how could one be expected to pay for something with nothing besides Monopoly money and to want to move on? Cid is a decent person, but the actual action of selling the site is what doomed us. It's put us in a downward spiral, and it is not looking bright at the bottom.

[Del Murder]

Neglect or mistreatment by the new owners? Check.
Staffers whose work was treated as though they were mandated as opposed to friendly contributions? Check.
A radical shift in expectations? Check.

Cid didn't really do anything in the last couple of years he was the owner.
Who specifically treated you that way?
What were the expectations before and what were the changes?

[Baloki]

Neglect or mistreatment by the new owners? Check.
Staffers whose work was treated as though they were mandated as opposed to friendly contributions? Check.
A radical shift in expectations? Check.

Cid didn't really do anything in the last couple of years he was the owner.
Who specifically treated you that way?
What were the expectations before and what were the changes?

I do laugh that you ask Trav about the changes in staff treatment when he's not been around long enough to know how we were treated back then :p

[Del Murder]

Oh ok, so he's just blowing smoke.

[Psychotic]

More because we ask people for help and the response is:

"Site Staff are lazy"

We are actually pissed off with it you know. Also one small piece of content really doesn't make up a whole section.

Edit: Also if the front site was forgotten would have we spent 2 months overhauling the look and feel?Now that you mention it... I haven't actually said this, but I think it, so it needs to be said: I think you did a fantastic job with the re-design of the site. It's something you should be proud of. Well done. :up:

I think "Site Staff are lazy" and "Forums staff are oppressive fascists" are more in-jokes than actual criticisms. I don't think anyone genuinely thinks that. If they do then I don't know what the fuck.

Now, the admins, man, those guys are lazy...!

[Del Murder]

lazy oppressive fascists at that

[Baloki]

In one way yes, in another no.

The treatment of staff has gotten worse over time, mainly because regular forum members see us as paid cronies who do nothing and it's become ingrained that "Site Staff are lazy", but we just don't get enough contributions from regs as much anymore and that's what used to drive us forward.

Nowadays Site Staff just feel like we're between a rock and a few hard places, hence our motivation gives out and we think, "smurf it, no-one else cares, why should we, let the place burn". It's a pity that most of us have such a vested interest in the place that when we think that we actually feel really guilty.

Edit: Thanks Psy, it's a pity the new owners didn't see it that way.

[Rye]

I think most people really do appreciate the site staff, Baloki. I don't think they're lazy, and no one I talk to, and I talk to quite a lot of people, has ever said they are. I'm mind blown by all of the stuff on the front site from all of the years, and the front page's new design is really something, you guys really kicked butt on that. :heart:

I just think any negativity members think about site staff tend to be some site staff, not naming names, just really acting like they hate their job on the forum, on multiple occasions. And yeah, the site staff is a bit of a thankless task, but if you volunteer to do it for a forum you love, people tend to feel that hating on your job so much is discouraging, especially for some people who may want to join it. It just has a huge stereotype of being people who hate their jobs, which is a shame. It's a sad thing for people to think, and it's a sad thing to portray. But keep in mind, for everyone or two of those people who act like that, there are many other site staff that have never complained and did hard work, which is very admirable. ;]

That's just my two-cents anyway. Sorry if that came out more critical than it meant it. I have a monster of a tooth ache! Too many candy canes! And that definitely was not aimed at you, Baloki. You've done arguably the most work of any of the site staff. Just so you know. xD

[Tavrobel]

I do laugh that you ask Trav about the changes in staff treatment when he's not been around long enough to know how we were treated back then :p

What, we can't be lurkers anymore? This is new. Okay, let's pretend that I'm two years old, because that'll give me license to act like it, because clearly that's the only thing that gets people to pay attention.


Cid didn't really do anything in the last couple of years he was the owner.
Who specifically treated you that way?
What were the expectations before and what were the changes?

But he could be expected to listen. As least someone knew that he was there and we could contact him, unlike the new owners who only respond to "wanna buy your thang."

Okay, that was really poor word choice on my part. What I was trying to get across was that when Cid sold the site, the content wasn't treated as though it were from the populace or the individual members that wrote it. Instead, it was sold as part of a whole package with no regard or seeming input from the people that wrote it. I don't believe that the SS at the time were asked by Cid if he was allowed to treat the content as his own.

The expectations are those of a visitor. Before, EoFF was a fan-run site, which meant that updates were whenever we damn well felt like it, and that Forums Staff (yes, you've got a part to play in this, too) were free to do as they pleased, and it was okay, because it was a community of fans with like minds and interests. Now, no such expectation can be given; EoFF is a business. and with it comes every single difficulty and mind-aggravating aspect of it.

I will admit that my views likely to be extremely unpopular, but not figuring out where everything stands and what needs to be done isn't going to help. What does need to happen? Organization, and a conscious, team-based effort to fix the damn problem. Problems aren't going to be solved by dicking around a bush and pretending that it doesn't exist, or fooling ourselves that being nice about it is the best solution.

[Levian]

More because we ask people for help and the response is:

"Site Staff are lazy"

We are actually pissed off with it you know. Also one small piece of content really doesn't make up a whole section.

Edit: Also if the front site was forgotten would have we spent 2 months overhauling the look and feel?Now that you mention it... I haven't actually said this, but I think it, so it needs to be said: I think you did a fantastic job with the re-design of the site. It's something you should be proud of. Well done. :up:

Yeah, I don't think I've ever said it either, but it really is awesome. Best one we ever had, and more appealing than close to all designs I've seen at various FF sites.

[Baloki]

We still have alot of features and bits and bobs to add but it's just getting time to do them all, I'm battelling through a few things on the personal front at the mo which means I haven't had the time I had in the summer to push things through a bit.

Also Black Ord deserves most of the credit as it's his banner that makes it.

[Del Murder]

The forums staff still does what it pleases for the most part.

[Madame Adequate]

-MILF: I can see us being an obstacle at times However, I would say that the general trend at EoFF has been one towards flexibility: way, way fewer people get banned and threads get closed than in the past. Of course, it's less active, too, but I think that as a whole we are more forgiving (ie care less).

That's probably fair.


One thing I wanted to point out here is that a lot of the member base has this expectation that the staffers are supposed to do all of the work and entertain everyone. This is everyone's forum and site. If you want to see fun stuff happen, then make a thread in private feedback asking about it. A lot of the more interesting events, contests and other such things were conceived of, created and run by regular members that wanted to make something fun and entertaining.

That's definitely fair. However, my point was less that I'm expecting entertainment from the staff (Heck, I don't participate in most of the stuff that does go on because it doesn't interest me.) and more that there just doesn't seem to be a culture of discussing things sensibly. I don't know, I'm not privy to the staff forum, but it's always seemed to me that most suggestions are never considered, and get shot down because the staff have already decided they are against it, regardless of the merit of contrary arguments. Of course, I've had my run-ins with some mods and admins, and I'm sure some of them dislike me as I dislike them, so take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt.


You want to fix the forums? Easy. What does everyone use the internet for? Porn.

We add a new forum. Final Fantasy hentai.

Activity doubled.

No, really.

This is also completely fair.

[Tavrobel]

The forums staff still does what it pleases for the most part.

And you don't see this as potentially causing any such problem(s) or contributing to an atmosphere of something that feels like it's closed off from the rest of the world? It doesn't seem like this might cause a problem with an inability or inflexibility when it comes to suggestions?

[Del Murder]

The rest of the world? This is a forums for a video game series.

[Tavrobel]

The rest of the world? This is a forums for a video game series.

The rest of the world being those potential new people/newbies/visitors. Not any sort of culture mishandle. Leave that to EoEO.

[Tama2]

I'll volunteer to help. I may be ,for the most part, useless, and you guys won't even want me on the team. But what the hell, huh.

Anybody else?

[Rye]

Paul and I were discussing the newbie welcome thing and we think that though BoB's automated message is good, it might be very much helpful to have an obviously non-automated message from someone just explaining how it can be hard to join a new forum with a big developed community, but to go to them if they need help or have questions, and point out some things to the newbie, like perhaps, current competitions going on or a few places of possible interest if you know the newbie mentioned their interests in their nub thread. =O I'd be willing to do this.

[Flying Mullet]

Perhaps get a list of those that are sincerely interested in helping newbies out and they can be assigned to a new member on a rotating basis. Kind of like Big Brother/Big Sister.

Adopt a Newbie! :mog:

[Tama2]

One of my thoughts too. I think it would be a nice way to start, among others. >>

<<

[Baloki]

Want to help with the front site? Well then just go to the following forum:
http://forums.eyesonff.com/site-volunteers/

Any and all information is welcome, just no nicking it off other people :)

[rubah]

actually, a lot of people don't seem to realize b0b's message is automated.

[Tavrobel]

actually, a lot of people don't seem to realize b0b's message is automated.

Perhaps we should change the greeting message to someone else? Or add a "don't reply" clause and direct to the newbie volunteer committee? Fencing Cactuar? Frankly, that'd be pretty awesome to see an account with illegal characters and like, 2039750497 different colored titles sending you something. Especially one that is twice banned.

But that's just me.

[Marshall Banana]

How about a mascot? =O

[Flying Mullet]

We have a mascot: http://forums.eyesonff.com/images_eoffclassic/statusicon/forum_new.gif

[Marshall Banana]

What kind of mascot isn't even a member? =(

[Flying Mullet]

Ahh, like the mascot that runs around at sporting events and does goofy stuff?

[Del Murder]

I thought RSL was our mascot.

[Rye]

I've always thought that Quina was the mascot! :quina:

[XxSephirothxX]

Del, if you are actually interested, read some of the old Site Staff threads from the time periods right after Cid sold and spdude sold. Cid being gone is absolutely the main reason the site has degraded. This is partially for practical reasons: we no longer have the access/control we once did, they interfere with the design for the sake of money through ads and such, etc. But it's also largely a spirit issue. It no longer feels like we own our stake of the site. We aren't contributing as a group, we're contributing to someone's moneymaking venture.

It's not like I'm mad Sean sold the site. He needed the money. But it changed the dynamic of the community, and not for the better. It's not like he was "running" site staff--that was largely the SSS, but they lost the control they once had. If Sean was still the owner, I guarantee you the site staff would be far more active. I'd probably still be doing news posts, and we'd have a lot more content. People like Spatvark would still have an interest in the site. And the site wouldn't have ads that are deliberately designed to be intrusive to the visitor experience just so you'll click on them. And a better frontsite would draw way more traffic. And that's more people on the forum.

[Marshall Banana]

Ahh, like the mascot that runs around at sporting events and does goofy stuff?
Yep.

Award Girl and Award Guy are like mascots, but they're used only for the Ciddies.

[Tavrobel]

Whatever happened to Election Booth?

[Quina]

I've always thought that Quina was the mascot! :quina:
:quina:

I personally think that chart represents a fact that we need more Quina.

Although I was hoping for a pie graph. :drool:

[The Man]

If you guys staff me I'll probably post 9,001 times a day again.

I know, not going to happen. Actually I probably couldn't be arsed to staff here anyway. Them's the breaks.

I didn't read any of this thread btw, I'll do it later. I'm about to watch Miller's Crossing.

[Flying Mullet]

If Sean was still the owner, I guarantee you the site staff would be far more active. I'd probably still be doing news posts, and we'd have a lot more content. People like Spatvark would still have an interest in the site.
Absolutely. I quit doing front site work once it became a business and my work was only going towards fattening other people's wallets. While Sean was still the owner I made it a point to produce periodic content updates as that was my way of giving back to the site. I no longer feel that loyalty to the front site.

Honestly, if we wanted to get real updates on the front site and people to care about it, WM would need to send out paypal "presents" again. It doesn't have to be big, but something to acknowledge the work that's done. That and to at least respond to emails from the staff.

[Momiji]

If Sean was still the owner, I guarantee you the site staff would be far more active. I'd probably still be doing news posts, and we'd have a lot more content. People like Spatvark would still have an interest in the site.
Absolutely. I quit doing front site work once it became a business and my work was only going towards fattening other people's wallets. While Sean was still the owner I made it a point to produce periodic content updates as that was my way of giving back to the site. I no longer feel that loyalty to the front site.

Honestly, if we wanted to get real updates on the front site and people to care about it, WM would need to send out paypal "presents" again. It doesn't have to be big, but something to acknowledge the work that's done. That and to at least respond to emails from the staff.

I know that I'd be much more inclined to actually sit down and do stuff if there were some paypal 'presents'. :p

Right now, I have other IRL things to attend to, so unfortunately, the stuff I have on my to-do list for the frontsite and the wiki have to take the back burner.

[Fonzie]

I used to be one of the top posters, but I dare not post what's on my mind anymore for the fear of a wag of a finger. And while one person such as myself is arbitrary, maybe mass e-net suicide would solve this really quick.

I had good ideas many ages ago, but I just gave up because they:

A) Locked

B) Turned down/not even answered

C) There is no C

[The Man]

now that I've actually bothered to read or at least skim most of this thread, I'm just going to say that I'm kind of tickled that conventional wisdom has finally caught up to what I've been saying about this place for quite some time. :monster:

Anyway, my conclusion from having adminned several FF sites that went through a similar downward spiral of activity due to owners who didn't give a http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif about the sites except as a way of making money and didn't trust the members enough to let them run the site completely on their own terms. You guys are pretty much smurfed if you can't get the owners to give you access to keep updating the site, because everyone's going to lose motivation, in fact it's clearly happeninig already. I had this problem myself at a pair of Final Fantasy boards where I used to admin, and it was always the same pattern: there'd be an owner who gave a http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif about the place and actually posted and worked on developing the community, then he hit a tough financial situation and had to sell it, then the new owner didn't bother doing anything for the site and wouldn't give anyone access to fix anything, and there was a huge drop in activity. I never really came about to a solution, in fact I wound up resigning from both sites in disgust and FFE now gets about 10 posts a day maybe, FFR probably gets more like 100 but it's a shadow of the 1,000+ it was getting when it reopened. I don't know the news owners of EffOff from Adam, in fact if you asked me to point them out on the admin list I probably wouldn't be able to tell you because I'm so out of touch with the community here, but my guess is that if they're like other owners then the only thing they really give a http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif about is the bottom line, which is cash. Simply put, if they don't bother giving people enough access to do what Edman said, to be a dedicated webmaster, then the site is going to fail, it is going to become even more worthless than it currently is. BooB used to fulfil that role back before he became jaded with the place, but I can't blame him for getting fed up, the new ownership claimed it wasn't going to change anything but then it's been through a revolving door of changes and from what I'm seeing no one has access to fix anything without going through the Vogon bureaucracy now.

Like I said, the only thing that's going to persuade the owners is the bottom line. You can't really bleed enough revenue from them to make them listen with a mass exodus, the only thing to really do is to attempt to reason with them. If they realise that not having people able to update content at will is going to kill people's enthusiasm to work on the site, thus degrade the quality of its coverage and remove people's incentive to keep the Google ranking high, which ultimately is what keeps traffic flowing in and benefits their bottom line. Maybe if enough people email them they'll listen, idk.

Anyway despite all the flak I've given the staff here over the past five years or so, frankly right now I'm more impressed with the way things are being run here than I've been for quite some time, and in fact I prefer the atmosphere to FCF's which had been my online spiritual home home for most of the school semester. I still have some sentimental attachment to this place as well because it was my first message board. But frankly, there's only so much you can do before you just have to wring your hands and give up. If the owners are too retarded to listen to their member base, then frankly, the community is doomed. You might be able to create something decent as a hangout board on your own terms, but it won't be the same as EoFF used to be.

More importantly, if the new owners are too retarded to listen to member feedback then they don't deserve your continued traffic.

You guys would all be welcome at Fool's Gold, btw. Yes, even you, WesLY. :monster: now that I'm finally out of college I may even have time to make that front site I've been saying I'll start up for years http://fools-gold.org/forum/images/smilies/wacky.gif

[Aerith's Knight]

I don't feel like making a materia list that takes me weeks if it takes me weeks to get even a thank you.

Something to take into account, maybe?

[Tavrobel]

I don't feel like making a materia list that takes me weeks if it takes me weeks to get even a thank you.

Something to take into account, maybe?

People have written whole sections without a simple thanks. You are neither alone, nor are you at the top of the totem on this one.

[The Man]

It's worth noting that I wrote whole sections for the site years ago that don't seem to be there anymore. Not that I have them anymore either.

[XxSephirothxX]

now that I've actually bothered to read or at least skim most of this thread, I'm just going to say that I'm kind of tickled that conventional wisdom has finally caught up to what I've been saying about this place for quite some time. :monster:

I don't know what you have been saying for quite some time, but my guess is that it has been closely mirrored by what we say in staff (though no one would admit it!). It's just kind off a bummer to talk about a fairly hopeless situation and get the same retread suggestions over and over. But there's always the possibility of something good coming out of it.

[Samuraid]

I never really came about to a solution, in fact I wound up resigning from both sites in disgust and FFE now gets about 10 posts a day maybe, FFR probably gets more like 100 but it's a shadow of the 1,000+ it was getting when it reopened.

As an aside, any ideas what happened to AdventChildren.net?

I agree with many of the analyses posted in this thread. At this point, doing more work for the site seems analogous to shoveling gold into a black hole. :eep:

[GrimmReaper]

maybe i started a bad trend posting inconsistantly?
D:

[ShunNakamura]

Well I have been an off and on member of a community that did bit of an Exodus.

I could go on and mention a lot about it, though all my information is second hand. The Exodus occurred while I was on Hiatus and I missed it. I was lucky to find the site where the community moved to(Since the New owner of the original community did everything in his power to prevent the move(disabling PM's, etc)). The new one is only a few months old and it has risen above the old site according to the site stats I have seen(and is even worth more according to those site calculator things(despite not even being 7 months old yet)); though the community still hasn't reached its old glory and the focus has changed(it covers a very large number of games now rather than just one).

However, even without the new owner the site probably would have died. It was a niche focus that was beginning to spiral to start with. Which is one of the mistakes the current owner says was learned from the old site.

Of course the situations are different. What works once may not work again. The fact that the owner did what he did may have helped(after all disabling PM's and rolling the forum backs and all sorts of other drama isn't a good way to keep members).



As for spicing things up. Well a site that I frequent nearly as much as EoFF now; it has blogs(create a forum account, you get a blog), the user profile is customizable to a fair deal(I have seen some pretty neat user profiles, they even have a monthly contest for best profile). And EoFF uses a newer version of VB so I assume we can do all that too.

Not that I myself use those features(ok I admit I played with my profile)... but some people probably like them. It also seems they have more social groups. And while a bit silly/image-sharing they do bring people together and create activity. Such as the Anti-Social Group(which apparently has a bad habit of dying off only to be revived again), The Drama Club, the Loli Lovers:love:, The Ecchi Club:love:, The SOS 団 Guild Club, Clubs for games they have information on, clubs for video game guilds that use the site, etc.


But in the end the community has to have heart. If the community has a whole begins to become dispirited then... well that isn't good(no duh).





Edit- Yikes.. I just was using some of those website value calculators so I punched in EoFF and apparently it has gone done in worth 2-3 thousand in as many months(which I would have taken a screen shot before telling cubestat to update). That can't look good to the owners. www.eyesonff.com estimated worth and web stat from Cubestat (http://www.cubestat.com/www.eyesonff.com).

[licence]

I thought this forum was much quieter than I originally remembered...shame. I like it here.

[The Man]

I never really came about to a solution, in fact I wound up resigning from both sites in disgust and FFE now gets about 10 posts a day maybe, FFR probably gets more like 100 but it's a shadow of the 1,000+ it was getting when it reopened.

As an aside, any ideas what happened to AdventChildren.net?

I agree with many of the analyses posted in this thread. At this point, doing more work for the site seems analogous to shoveling gold into a black hole. :eep:

The official explanation is that SY no longer had enough money to run the site. However, she refused to sell it and refused to monetise it further at a time when it could easily have brought in enough money to make it fiscally solvent, so the real reason for its closure is anybody's guess. That said she brought in a 'tech admin' who turned out to be a gigantic drama whore and claimed he was enacting decisions which he'd talked to SY about, but proved to be hugely unpopular amongst the member base. Not to mention she apparently had time to see Cloverfield in theatres something like 26 times.

so really, it's anybody's guess.



now that I've actually bothered to read or at least skim most of this thread, I'm just going to say that I'm kind of tickled that conventional wisdom has finally caught up to what I've been saying about this place for quite some time. :monster:

I don't know what you have been saying for quite some time, but my guess is that it has been closely mirrored by what we say in staff (though no one would admit it!). It's just kind off a bummer to talk about a fairly hopeless situation and get the same retread suggestions over and over. But there's always the possibility of something good coming out of it.See here (http://fools-gold.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=230) for most of it.

[Loony BoB]

Regarding making me pay for a new forum: I wouldn't need to. The only thing I'd need to pay for is a domain, and that's dirt cheap. I have spare vBulletin licences that aren't being used, and I know people who can provide serverspace on the cheap/free side in the short term at least. As for chatroom stuff, I already pay for #eoff's IRC server so it wouldn't change a thing there either. I'm not saying I'm going to do all of this (nor am I saying I won't, but I haven't made plans!), but I am saying that it's possible and it wouldn't cause me any major problems.

For all those saying we need to drive EoFF into the ground, to do this we would all need to stop posting. Now, that's unlikely to happen no matter how hard we try. Why? Because they can recruit their own moderators from the memberbase that DO want to stay at EoFF (I'm sure dozens of regulars including those posting in this thread saying we should move would jump at such an opportunity). We may have most of the big posters but do we have all the casual browsers of the frontsite? How much of an impact do the regulars have on revenue, anyway? Probably crap all, because the regulars aren't the ones clicking the links! So the owners would still get paid despite us leaving. EoFF would not be driven to the ground, so this plan would ultimately fail.

Psy - I'll look into those stats for you. I have a lot on today at work but I think I should find the time within the next week, if not 24 hours.

I would like to point out that regardless of the effects of Cid selling the site, he didn't screw it over - he sold it. Because he needed the money, and he created it and made it what it is today, and without him creating this forum, chances are few of us would know each other and hell, even Fool's Gold probably wouldn't exist. He just had finished his time as owner, and while the new owner wasn't ideal, he sold it in the hope that the new owner would still be good. Unfortunately things didn't turn out so well, but that's the fault of the new owners, not the old ones. I can't thank Cid enough for making this site because it's inevitably lead to massive changes in my life.

Social networking, to me, is futile because if people wanted social networking do you really think they'd do it here? The main thing you want in social networking sites is for all the people you know to be registered on it. Everyone knows that more of the people they know themselves are likely to be on Facebook than a random gaming site, so yeah.

The only real reason I would go to a different forum created by ourselves is so we could call it our own, not to get rid of EoFF which still is regarded as home to me on the internet. I would never expect the new site to be a replacement on an immediate basis but more of a side-project with more freedom and relevant ownership. If enough people came, it could be a new beginning, but not an out-and-out replacement as this place will likely continue, if in a downwards spiral, so be it.

I imagine a few people would rather drop dead than go to a forum run by myself, though. >=P

[Jiro]

This is the only forum I've ever been active on, and all of this talk is making me sad :(
Though there have been some good ideas in this thread, and I hope we can find a way to prolong the site. We're not that doomed, are we?

[Goldenboko]

I'm sure you'd get more then you running the site.

If it gets bad enough, I say sabotage :p

Anyway in a more serious note, can't you somehow check to see if the revenue has been going down like the activity? I'd assume they're pretty directly correlated. If so, we could always just wait it out, working on a side-project, until the site is no longer profitable, and the owners will just want to sell the domain? Then we could just start really working on retooling Eyes on, maybe incorporating things from the side project?

[Loony BoB]

I'm sure you'd get more then you running the site.
Owned by myself and run by many, but the same general idea applies. :p This is the #1 reason most people don't really want to leave EoFF. Is that ironic? That people who dislike the leadership at one site don't want to have to choose a leader for another site because there will always be people unhappy at the decision? I don't know. But it's true, no matter who makes a spinoff site, outside of RSL there will probably always be people who aren't too happy with it all.

Personally if I was to own a new site then I'd probably run it slightly differently than EoFF is currently run, and I'm sure every forums staffer knows what would change and would hate me for it. :D I don't want to be the leader that people (people I have a lot of respect for, too) don't want leading, that's why I'm not keen on being the leader at all.

EDIT: We can't check revenue because, er, we don't own the site etc. Revenue is not our concern.

EDIT: Haha, FG is blocked at my work.

[demondude]

Just do something. :kaocry:

[Jiro]

Just do something. :kaocry:

I want to grow apart from the site, not have it taken away from me :cry:

[Goldenboko]

I kinda meant like, link hits or something, so we can extrapolate if revenue is going down xD

The idea of not doing something out of fear of people not liking it is bad D: Personally, some kind of leadership from an owner would be better then the none at all we've gotten xD

[Markus. D]

:3

... 3:

[Tavrobel]

Personally, some kind of leadership from an owner would be better then the none at all we've gotten xD

Now, now, now, GB. We should be fair. Our owners are very active leaders! Why, just recently, they decided to update the vB version without informing us at all, thus causing just as many problems as they've done in the past with unplanned and uninformed updates, and forcing people to replace sprites and images again. Hey, why, sometime in October, they had that big-giant-mega-update that rolled stuff back by about a month! We should be fair. The owners are very active by doing whatever they want and not informing us.

[Psychotic]

Eyes off FF: v2.0

I was the best damn mod EoffFF ever had!

[The Man]

Like I said, the best solution is to email the owners and convince them how their strategy for the forum is destroying it.

Something else I noticed: The server is loading horrendously slowly for guests. That's probably driving new registrations down right there.

[rubah]

I find this thread incredibly dull having gone over the subject matter too many times with too many people, but once you all decide what to do, I will put my best effort into it wholeheartedly so long as it isn't retarded.

[Momiji]

I find this thread incredibly dull having gone over the subject matter too many times with too many people, but once you all decide what to do, I will put my best effort into it wholeheartedly so long as it isn't retarded.

Seconded. It's not like my ideas have never been expressed before, and my opinion means nothing anyway.

[Shorty]

What if we set up an account someplace for members to donate? There's a chance, if members were dedicated, we could try to buy the site. I don't know if this would help, really, but as it seems that most people are displeased with the owners already, it couldn't hurt to try.

All of this makes me sad, too. I was inactive for a long time, and have only recently been trying to be a better member. What if mass emails were sent out to already-registered members? Some email every day or something. Or every week. Birthdays, what's happening. Many people may have forgotten this site, and seeing a link in their inbox may remind them to come back and check out what's happening.

What's the worst that would happen? They'd scoff at the email and delete it.

Maybe encourage people to come to #eoff more? I always see the same people there. It might help bump up posting.

[Rye]

That email idea is really good!

[Tavrobel]

Online petitions never work That'll show those hackers on Battle.net!

[Shorty]

That email idea is really good!

I'm glad someone likes it. I know that I often gets messages from old sites, and they remind me to go back and look at them. It might work for this place, too.

[rubah]

we are pretty overdue for the next edition of the eyes on newsletter!

[Shorty]

We could start an EoFF Strike!

[Loony BoB]

Summary is in percentages, showing the percentage of number of posts made in 2008 divided by the number of posts in 2006.

General Chat: 54%
EoEO: 34%
Lounge: 34%

Artists: 24%
Graphic Design: 16%
Writing: 16%
Role Playing: 9%

FF...
I: 35%
II: 13%
III: 17%
IV: 35%
V: 25%
VI: 19%
VII: 23%
VII AC: 4%
VIII: 15%
IX: 12%
X/X-2: 9%
XI: 16%
XII: 23%
XIII: 89%
Tactics: 22%
CC: 29%
General FF: 30%
VGM/Media: 34%

CC/CT: 56%
KH: 8%
General SE: 33%
General Gaming: 54%

Help: 40%
Feedback: 137% :p
Private Feedback: 22%
Gen Archive: 100% :p
EoY Archive: 48%
Archived Awards: 27%
Site Volunteers: 108% :p
Site Staff Forum: 104% :p
The Project: 4%

Staff Forum: 72%
Warned Members: 23% (I suppose that's good!)
Wings: 14% (testing forum)
Garbage: 18% (I suppose that's good, too!)

See attachments for further details.

[Old Manus]

wow

[XxSephirothxX]

Site staff: saying more, doing so much less.

[Freya]

Rye and I have started experiment "Adopt-A-Newbie" as I call it. I read her comments about a non automated message. So I decided to try it with some newbies. So far I've sent out two hello PMs and both have really felt good about receiving them. It makes me all warm inside.

Our out look is, if we make it more happy and fun here they are more likely to stay. Like as I told Rye, it's like if you see two groups of people; A sullen emo group or a happy laughing group, people will most likely go to the happy group. If we're open to newbies and we have a fun community it might get over the whole atrocious ads and people might just come cause we're a fun loving community :D

^_^ I feel all giddy about this. Makes me feel special that I'm helping.

[Psychotic]

So it looks like the FF forums are taking the biggest pounding. Perhaps the most sad fact of all about that is that FFXIII's activity has decreased, even as we get closer to the release date.

I don't entirely know what to make of the extreme drop in the creative forums. The RP forum used to be such a little shining star too. Second most active forum behind GC from the looks of it and now it's fallen way down.

Also Warned Members: 23% hahahah yeah not surprised. People will still call us Nazis though!

[Del Murder]

I love your charts BoB.

[Loony BoB]

http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29489&stc=1&d=1229805073

[Del Murder]

Now let's see it in pie form.

[Loony BoB]

http://forums.eyesonff.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29490&stc=1&d=1229806274

[rubah]

itt we need more rubah charts

[Marshall Banana]

There's at least one thing that exists now, but didn't exist a few years ago at EoFF: strawberry power!

[Sir Lancealot]

There's at least one thing that exists now, but didn't exist a few years ago at EoFF: strawberry power!

Maybe that's part of the problem:tongue:

[scrumpleberry]

I don't entirely know what to make of the extreme drop in the creative forums.

Lack of constructive criticism, there's still a pretty steady influx of work every so often, it's just noone commenting on it YOU BITCHES I NEED WATERCOLOUR HELP er I mean I don't know why, but there are so many threads with beautiful pieces and very few posts.

Personally I don't RP anymore because I'm kind of pushed for time nowadays and most of them needed quite a bit of time and effort - particularly on the part of the GM, who can't always deliver after the first few weeks, so I think people might be anticipating this and just thinking "Oh all that'll happen is that I'll make a brilliant character and then it'll die off, what's the point..?"

[Tavrobel]

BoB, it appears that your chart is no longer up to date. Rectify this situation, posthaste.

[Del Murder]

Yeah, my chart love is at least 130% now.

[Lawr]

--if not over 9,000.

[Momiji]

I don't entirely know what to make of the extreme drop in the creative forums.

No one gives a crap about art and writing unless the person looking or reading is an artist or writer?

[Psychotic]

Yeah but why should it have been so high in the first place if that's the case?

[Miriel]

Yeah but why should it have been so high in the first place if that's the case?

Art is subject to fads like everything else. I was really into graphic design about the same time everyone else was into graphic design. Signatures and banners and all that good stuff. Oddly enough, just as I was getting out of that phase, a lot of the resource sites I used started closing down or going on hiatus. I'd say by this point 80% of the hottest brush/texture/etc sites have shut down. On Livejournal, graphic communities dedicated icons for movies and television would get dozens of comments per post. Now a lot of them are inactive or get much fewer responses. Artists fuel other artists. You see someone post a pretty picture, you're gonna want to post a pretty picture. If no one is posting, that's gonna get others to post less as well.

Looking back that whole movement was a fad. And then the era of macros was ushered in.

Don't know about the Roleplaying forum. Never really noticed it to be that active in the first place.

[Breine]

It may well be that since we don't have a lot of new users, our older younger members have grown up and are busy working and stuff. =O

Aye, the Rye is saying something. That's probably it.

[black orb]

Yeah but why should it have been so high in the first place if that's the case?
>>> Most of the artsy people who used to post in the art forums migrated to deviantart..
I dont blame them though, since all the feedback you get there is incredible..

[Christmas]

I think the activity here is just nice. Slow, soothing and calm like a holiday resort. Had no idea why these ppl were so anxious back in 2008. :bigsmile:

Must be purberty or something. :chocobo:

[Quindiana Jones]

I'm so curious what the 20 year chart looks like.

DELLLLLLLLLLL HEEEEELLLLLP