Lost Season 5 - Spoilers EVERYWHERE! :p

[McLovin']

About the death: Its not Ben

They're in 2007 and apparently Smokey continued to destroy the Barracks after Ben released it in 2005.

Loving Christian appearances almost as much as I love Smokey. <3

[LunarWeaver]

I wouldn't mind if Ben died. I'm a bit tired of his manipulation and double-crossing these days. He's become too one-note for me, though that's not to insult Emerson, who is a very good actor and all. If I were a badass like Sayid, I would have shot his ass long ago.

[Croyles]

Ben is the new Snape...

Oh and Jack was such an ass this episode, he got what was coming to him...

[Del Murder]

This show is too bizarre for words these days. Why didn't Sun go back in time with the rest of them?

[Flying Mullet]

My wife suspects that someone from the Oceanic Six went back in time if someone from that time wanted them back. Thus Juliet -> Jack and Sawyer -> Kate. But if this is true, who wanted Hurley and Sayid back? And is there a point in time when this "calculation" was made as now Sawyer and Juliet seem pretty content without Jack and Kate unless it's at some unconscious level.

[McLovin']

Sun didn't go back because her purpose in this timeline is to do something in 2007 while the rest of the Losties were meant to influence the DHARMA time period causing it to become what it is now.

[Del Murder]

I think both of those theories are pretty crappy but one of them is probably right. I still want to know when/where Rose and Bernard are too. Are those the only people left alive from the original crash?

[The Man]

Sun didn't go back in time because she was pregnant when she left the island, and wasn't pregnant when she came back. At least, that's my theory.

[Del Murder]

That doesn't make sense because they weren't trying to recreate the circumstances of how they left the island, but how they came to the island first. But you could be right because this show obviously doesn't need to make a lot of sense.

[Moon Rabbits]

My wife suspects that someone from the Oceanic Six went back in time if someone from that time wanted them back. Thus Juliet -> Jack and Sawyer -> Kate. But if this is true, who wanted Hurley and Sayid back? And is there a point in time when this "calculation" was made as now Sawyer and Juliet seem pretty content without Jack and Kate unless it's at some unconscious level.

I don't enjoy this theory at all, but it seems plausible. Sayid x Hurley sort of don't fit, though. Then again, Sawyer and Hurley were buddy buds, I doubt that's why though. Maybe Charlie wanted Hurley to go back to the 70s?

Blech. I think the Island just sent the O6 where they were supposed to go to fix the problem.

[The Man]

That doesn't make sense because they weren't trying to recreate the circumstances of how they left the island, but how they came to the island first. But you could be right because this show obviously doesn't need to make a lot of sense.

Well, Mrs. Hawking said that if they didn't "all" come back, then the results would be "unpredictable." Presumably that meant Ji Yeon, (possibly) Aaron (though the "don't you dare bring him back" suggests otherwise in his case, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Claire actually meant Ben instead), and Desmond as well. In fact I'm thinking it's going to be Desmond returning that fixes everything. We still don't know what Ben was doing at the docks but I'm pretty sure whatever it was was designed to lure him back to the island.

[Craig]

i just hope they dont do a whole time loop storyline where they never get back to 2007 and are stuck in the 70s and 1 of them becomes jacob and 2 of them become adam and eve and the rest do whatever they want (die in the purge maybe) and then it shows the plan crashing again in 2004 so its just an inevitable time loop, thatd be a cop out if you ask me... although im pretty convinced that jacob, adam and eve all must be characters we already know so its quite likely something like that will happen

they need to escape the 70s, go back to 2007 and get involved in a war between ben and widmore

[Moon Rabbits]

i just hope they dont do a whole time loop storyline where they never get back to 2007 and are stuck in the 70s and 1 of them becomes jacob and 2 of them become adam and eve and the rest do whatever they want (die in the purge maybe) and then it shows the plan crashing again in 2004 so its just an inevitable time loop, thatd be a cop out if you ask me... although im pretty convinced that jacob, adam and eve all must be characters we already know so its quite likely something like that will happen

they need to escape the 70s, go back to 2007 and get involved in a war between ben and widmore

This seems so sadly likely.

Also: Jacob = Jack, Adam and Eve = Rose and Bernard.

[McLovin']

Rose and Bernard being Adam and Eve seems a little..disappointing? Being Jack and Kate would be more effective than just having it randomly be Rose and Bernard.

[Del Murder]

Pretty sure they will get out of the 70s before the series ends. There's still another whole season left. They aren't going to spend the whole thing in the 70s, especially when a few of the characters are still in the present.

[Moon Rabbits]

Rose and Bernard being Adam and Eve seems a little..disappointing? Being Jack and Kate would be more effective than just having it randomly be Rose and Bernard.

Well, yeah, I don't actually expect it to be Rose and Bernard, but I hope it is. It would be a cute way to end their story - I mean, they had all these emotional (and health) problems off the Island, and when they came to the Island it all got fixed. It would be cute, I say~!

But, the producers said that Adam and Eve will "prove they had it all planned out from the beginning," so I doubt it's actually Rose and Bernard because that explains nothing, really.

Weren't Adam and Eve inside plane seats, too? I wonder how that's going to be explained. Maybe Jack and Kate have been dead all along!

Also @Del, concerning the timeline: I read a spoiler that said, towards the end of this season, the Donkey Wheel gets turned again. Presumably this fixes all the time travel issues.

Concerning spoilers, I also read one of these people will die by the end of the season: Ben, Miles, Daniel, Sawyer, or Jin. Personally, I think it's going to be either Ben or Jin. Miles has had far too little of his background explained, Sawyer's character is still developing, and Daniel is required to explain all the "sciencey" crap on the Island. Ben's character feels like he's reaching the end of his character arc, learning to "trust" and "be trusted" and whatnot (+ he was all wounded when Locke is resurrected); Jin, too, seems like he has reached the end of his character arc - he learned to trust Sun, sacrificed his own happiness/freedom to keep her away from the Island, and has just become a very strong character all around. Not only that, but not letting Sun and Jin reunite would be the most tragic thing ever.

EDIT: Also, wtf@Aaron? I'm really curious to know what Kate did with him before leaving and how that will affect the story on the Island.

[Levian]

Kate and Hurley should really just stay in the past forever since they're both wanted for murder and all. Not much left for Jack or Sayid either. Sun and Jin needs to go back to the present to be with their baby.

and the shocking twist in the end of this episode was the least shocking twist yet. :/

[McLovin']

Concerning spoilers, I also read one of these people will die by the end of the season: Ben, Miles, Daniel, Sawyer, or Jin. Personally, I think it's going to be either Ben or Jin. Miles has had far too little of his background explained, Sawyer's character is still developing, and Daniel is required to explain all the "sciencey" crap on the Island. Ben's character feels like he's reaching the end of his character arc, learning to "trust" and "be trusted" and whatnot (+ he was all wounded when Locke is resurrected); Jin, too, seems like he has reached the end of his character arc - he learned to trust Sun, sacrificed his own happiness/freedom to keep her away from the Island, and has just become a very strong character all around. Not only that, but not letting Sun and Jin reunite would be the most tragic thing ever.



Since it's probably gonna be a finale death I would say it has to be Sawyer or Ben since if it was Jin, Daniel or Miles I don't think fans would care that much and a death at a finale should be major.

[The Man]

Kate and Hurley should really just stay in the past forever since they're both wanted for murder and all.
You mean Kate and Sawyer? Hurley was cleared of all charges.

Not to mention, I doubt any of them will ever leave the island again, nor will American law enforcement have any interest in visiting it, so they're safe. Well, as safe as you can get on that island anyway.

[Del Murder]

Who are Adam and Eve and why are they significant? I have a vague recollection of it but not much.

[Craig]

adam and eve were 2 skeletons jack found in the caves way back in season 1. jack found a pair of white and black stones in their pockets or something.

the producers have said that that by the time lost ends, adam and eve being in season 1 will be evidence that they had certain things planned all along, which basically means before lost ends a male and female character in the past are going to get a hold of black and white stones, go to the caves and die and everybody will go "ohhhh so thats who adam and eve were"

[Levian]

Kate and Hurley should really just stay in the past forever since they're both wanted for murder and all.
You mean Kate and Sawyer? Hurley was cleared of all charges.

Not to mention, I doubt any of them will ever leave the island again, nor will American law enforcement have any interest in visiting it, so they're safe. Well, as safe as you can get on that island anyway.

Oh? I don't remember that at all. Shows how much I've been paying attention this season. :D

But now that you mention it, Kate got her charges dropped too.

Sawyer is wanted for murder? I thought he did his time.

[Moon Rabbits]

Kate and Hurley should really just stay in the past forever since they're both wanted for murder and all.
You mean Kate and Sawyer? Hurley was cleared of all charges.

Not to mention, I doubt any of them will ever leave the island again, nor will American law enforcement have any interest in visiting it, so they're safe. Well, as safe as you can get on that island anyway.

Oh? I don't remember that at all. Shows how much I've been paying attention this season. :D

But now that you mention it, Kate got her charges dropped too.

Sawyer is wanted for murder? I thought he did his time.

Yeah, afaik none of them are criminals anymore, technically.

Except Sayid.

[The Man]

Kate and Hurley should really just stay in the past forever since they're both wanted for murder and all.
You mean Kate and Sawyer? Hurley was cleared of all charges.

Not to mention, I doubt any of them will ever leave the island again, nor will American law enforcement have any interest in visiting it, so they're safe. Well, as safe as you can get on that island anyway.

Oh? I don't remember that at all. Shows how much I've been paying attention this season. :D

But now that you mention it, Kate got her charges dropped too.

Sawyer is wanted for murder? I thought he did his time.He's wanted for something, I don't remember what. Might be that dude he killed in Australia.

And yeah I didn't even think about Kate not being inprisoned, but then again since she left the state her parole will be violated. If they can prove she left it that is, but they probably could.

[Psychotic]

Sawyer isn't wanted for anything, unless they found out who killed Frank Duckett.

[The Man]

He seemed pretty certain they would, which was why he didn't want to go back. Now that I think about it though he may have been wanted for something else, but I can't remember.

[PeneloRatsbane]

what was with the woman behind Sun, while she was talking to Christian? that was so spooky, i loved it. who was it?
My bets on Charlotte, 1. as shes a deady now, 2. it looked like her and 3. it was her who warned them about not letting sun get back

or claire, but that would mean shes actually dead

[Craig]

yknow whats weird.. i was at the pub with my girlfriend earlier, and that speech sawyer gave to jack, about sawyer being a thinker and jack reacting popped into my head. i told this to my gf (whos only watched the first 3 seasons) and asked her what she thought.

she was like, jack was a crap leader i dont like him (bear in mind shes only watched seasons 1-3 but already this is clear to her). he made so many bad decisions and people died because of him... sawyer seems a lot more level headed than him


i pretty much agreed with her and said jack was too interested in getting off the island and proving locke wrong to see the truth, but despite that i cant help but think he is awesome because his way of thinking brings a lot of conflict to the show.

i still think he will get back in control, or at least share control with sawyer. especially if they manage to make their way back to 2007

[PeneloRatsbane]

Jack did the best he could. It didn't work out well but he stepped up, i mean s.1 sawyer wasn't going to do it was he. the characters have grown and changed with time. I used to Love kate and now she hasn't got Aaron i've gone off of her, i liked her as a mum more.

[Moon Rabbits]

yknow whats weird.. i was at the pub with my girlfriend earlier, and that speech sawyer gave to jack, about sawyer being a thinker and jack reacting popped into my head. i told this to my gf (whos only watched the first 3 seasons) and asked her what she thought.

she was like, jack was a crap leader i dont like him (bear in mind shes only watched seasons 1-3 but already this is clear to her). he made so many bad decisions and people died because of him... sawyer seems a lot more level headed than him


i pretty much agreed with her and said jack was too interested in getting off the island and proving locke wrong to see the truth, but despite that i cant help but think he is awesome because his way of thinking brings a lot of conflict to the show.

i still think he will get back in control, or at least share control with sawyer. especially if they manage to make their way back to 2007

There were a lot of role reversals in the past episode that have set up the next few for a lot of conflict between the survivors.

Jack and Sawyer, obviously, have switched roles. Jack is now an advocate for faith and fate, whereas Sawyer has taken on the "man of science" (or rather, man of thought) sort of role that Jack used to fill.

Sayid and Ben have switched roles too. Remember in season 2, when Sayid had Ben captured in the Swan? Now Sayid is the captive and (young) Ben is not. Ben also lied about not being one of the Others (and was one), whereas Sayid is lying about being a Hostile (when he is not).

Kate and Juliet's dynamic has also changed. At first, they both wanted Jack and Kate already "had" him, really. Now, both want Sawyer, but Kate is the one with the disadvantage (Juliet and Sawyer have had a three year relationship at this point in the timeline).

Other, less obvious ones also exist - Ben, seemingly telling the truth, is betrayed by Sun. And, with concern to Jin and Sun's relationship, Jin has often been the 'go-getter,' where Sun has sort of been a submissive 'damsel in distress' type character. Now, Jin is completely hopeless in actually finding Sun, whereas Sun has become a crazy hard-ass badass biznatch bent on saving her husband.

And where is Daniel Faraday? I don't remember him in the past few episodes. Maybe I am just forgetting his scenes?

[Craig]

daniel faraday is away right now. i think in one scene sawyer mentioned to jack that faraday had some theories on what they couldnt do in regard to time travel. jack was like, "faradays here?" sawyer basically said "not anymore"

so hes gone off somewhere

[The Man]

or claire, but that would mean shes actually dead

Just because she shows up behind Christian doesn't mean she's dead.

That said, there's speculation that the woman behind Christian wasn't actually supposed to be in the shot and that it was just an error :monster:

@ moon rabbits, nice analysis, I hadn't noticed a lot of that but you're right. The writers do love irony.

[PeneloRatsbane]

Sun or Lapidus probably would have spotted her, i figured when the door opened the ghosty lass came in. she's to visible for it to be an accident, and if it were they should included it cos it chilled me bones, very creppy.

[charliepanayi]

I keep imagining that Daniel has gone crazy and is now living as some mad old hermit in a cave somewhere XD

That person behind Sun when Jack's father was talking to her and Frank was strange, kind of creepy - it could have just been an error, but surely it would have been spotted before the show went to air.

[Kirobaito]

Sawyer got deported because he punched a government official, IIRC. In Australia, he didn't get caught for killing the shrimp dude, only for punching someone, which we didn't see.

[PeneloRatsbane]

I recon Faraday is loafing around somewhere, but he probably is a little nuts now. Which is fair enough, imagine losing the woman u love, then meeting her again in a matter of hours only she's like 3 or something. That would mess up anyone, but Faraday already had a head start in crazy. I recon he's probably going to mess around with the Orchid and cause something to happen

[Moon Rabbits]

or claire, but that would mean shes actually dead

Just because she shows up behind Christian doesn't mean she's dead.


It was already established that Claire is with Christian, wasn't it? Last season, when John was told to move the Island, Claire was chilling in the cabin with Christian. At least, that's what I remember.

EDIT: Oh, and what about Aaron being raised by another? Wasn't Claire's psychic REALLY adamant about her being the one to raise the child? > _ < So many questions.

edit edit: So I was reading Lostpedia because I do that when I'm bored (I'm so cool), and it said that Richard Malkin (the psychic) later told Claire she should give her baby up for adoption to a couple in Los Angeles who were "good people." Perhaps the same good people that Kate wound up giving Aaron to in Los Angeles, or maybe Malkin worked for Widmore or Ben and had some ulterior motive?


EDIT AGAIN:
Concerning Jacob! ~

Jacob is an important biblical figure. The biblical story of Jacob has many parallels to the story of Lost:

Jacob and Esau are twins.

Jacob's mother Rebekah received a prophecy from God after she began to experience pain and discomfort during her pregnancy (pregnancy troubles! Sounds like the Island). God told her that she would birth twins, whom would fight with one another their entire lives. Not only this, but the prophecy says that neither will rise to power at the same time - when one gains power, the other will lose it. God also tells her the younger child will be served by the older.

When the twins are born, Esau is birthed first; strong, covered in hair, and developed (in fact, his name means "developed" or "fully grown" in Hebrew). Jacob is birthed second, clutching the heel of his brother Esau.

Esau becomes a hunter, adored by his father Isaac, while Jacob becomes a "tent-dweller" (cabin-dweller?). Being feeble, and less outgoing than his brother, Jacob is favored by Rebekah.

One day, tired from hunting, Esau begs Jacob for some stew which he has prepared. Jacob agrees only to give the stew to his brother if Esau gives up his birthright. Esau agrees, and eats.

Eventually, Isaac grows old and becomes blind. Esau goes hunting and prepares to be blessed by his father before his death. Rebekah, knowing that Esau still plans to keep his birthright, remembers God's prophecy and knows that Jacob is the one who should rightly receive the birthright (as Esau is meant to serve Jacob). They wind up deceiving Isaac, since he is blind, and Jacob becomes the blessed one. Soon enough, Esau returns from the hunt and Isaac learns he has been deceived - however, he does not retract his blessing and tells Esau that he shall serve Isaac. Another interesting note: it is said that Isaac smelled Heaven when Jacob would enter his room, where he would smell Hell when Esau entered.

SO - I postulate that Jacob of Lost, obviously, is an allusion to the Jacob of biblical origin. Likewise, Widmore is Esau. Remember, Widmore has said multiple times that the Island is rightfully his, and is evidently angered by his (possibly) wrongful exiling. Widmore, like Esau, also uses excessive force and is a "hunter" type of person.

Anyway~ Esau swears vengeance upon Jacob, so Jacob flees. Eventually, he falls in love with Rachael (who is actually his cousin ... :Oo:), but Rachael's father Laban's got a problem with this. He deceives Jacob into marrying his older daughter, Leah, as it was not proper at the time for the younger daughter to marry first. Really, Jacob loves Rachael, but Rachael is barren and cannot have children (like on the Island, again), but God opens up Leah's womb and she gives birth to four children in succession. Eventually Laban lets Jacob marry Rachael, too, who gives Jacob her handmaid so they may have children. Long story short, Jacob sires about 36143861871 kids by Leah, Rachael's handmaid, and Leah's handmaid (both of whom are said to be even younger daughters of Laban. Yeah, incest all over the place). Oh, and God let's Rachael have a kid, too, his name is Joseph. *Phew* One of these children is named Daniel (Faraday?~)

Jacob winds up pissing off Laban by stealing the good portions of his sheep herd, and he and his wives peace out before long. As Jacob and his family are about to leave Canaan, Esau's kingdom, Rachael gives birth to Jacob's twelfth son, Benjamin. She dies in labor.

Now, we all know Ben's mother died in labor. I find it interesting that, although Ben's father is obviously not Jacob, Ben's mother died off of the Island (let's say "Widmore's territory"). So, Rachael is much like Ben's mother, as she died within Esau's territory (Canaan).

Anyway, Jacob had one son named Levi. Levi begat Kohath begat Amram begat Aaron. Aaron's mother, Jochebed, is Levi's daughter. If Levi is Christian, then Jochebed is Claire. This would explain why Jacob employs Christian as his "messenger" type, and why he takes Claire. Anyway, Jesus is a descendant of Jacob. Charlie had a vision of Claire dressed as the Virgin Mary (in Season 2, I think?), holding Aaron. If this is the case, then maybe Aaron = Jesus = the Island's savior?

Oh, and God loved Jacob but hated Esau. For this reason, I put forth that Richard Alpert = God.

Joseph, btw, was also Jacob's favorite son and Benjamin's only full brother. Ben Linus has remarked several times about how Locke is the Lost Jacob's "favorite." In Ben's lifetime, he also saw a tribe of his women and children murdered, after which the survivors could no longer produce children. Their solution? Kill another tribe's men and steal their women / children, ala Lost.

[/long winded theorizing]

[Flying Mullet]

I just re-watched the scene where Christian is showing Sun and Frank the picture and I didn't see anyone behind him. Can someone provide some clues/hints as to where/when she is?

[Pure Strife]

So is Walt just going to be appearing randomly for the rest of this thing or is he going to go back to the island? And are we all assuming Charlotte is going to come magically back to life? And is that Charlie's guitar Hurley has been carrying around?

My God I love this show.

[McLovin']

I just re-watched the scene where Christian is showing Sun and Frank the picture and I didn't see anyone behind him. Can someone provide some clues/hints as to where/when she is?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n3eH1jI8AZ8/ScHiCU8IVII/AAAAAAAAPiQ/m280-b_NbFw/s400/509+sun+woman2.jpg

[The Man]

long post

again, nice theorising/research. a lot of that makes a lot of sense.

[Flying Mullet]

Thanks. I was re-watching the episode on abc.com and didn't see her so my guess is that it was a production goof and they removed her from the background before putting the episode online.

[sdm42393]

Reaction to the last thirty seconds: :eek: --> :confused:

[LunarWeaver]

Hahaha, yeeees.

[The Man]

I knew he was going to do that, and I was pretty sure it would be at the end of the episode. Ben will survive though, obviously :monster:

[Del Murder]

That was nuts. I wonder how Ben will come back.

[The Man]

Speculation is that the Others or Jack give him surgery, or else the island just heals him on its own as it did with Locke.

Also, how big are Ben's balls? Seriously. Knowing Sayid's true nature, and that he eventually ends up trying to kill him, and still manipulating him like that anyway.

[McLovin']

I'd have shot him in the head. Don't zombie movies teach us anything :(

[Craig]

yeah i saw that coming the whole time. was hoping it wasnt gonna happen cos i felt pretty sorry for young ben and i got the feeling that sayid did too

[Moon Rabbits]

yeah i saw that coming the whole time. was hoping it wasnt gonna happen cos i felt pretty sorry for young ben and i got the feeling that sayid did too

Yes~ This episode made me remember why I liked both Ben and Sayid's characters so much.

Overall, I thought the episode was okay (the end was awesome). The whole scene with the "He's Our You" guy (who's name I forgot) was kind of pointless, imho. Lots of the episode seemed like filler.

Now we know who Ilana is, though. What about Caesar?

[Croyles]

Well lets see if Faraday is right...

[The Man]

I'm sure we'll learn more about Caesar soon. I'm expecting we'll get flashbacks for each of the O6 to learn more about what they were doing, as we did with Sayid.

[Croyles]

who the hell is Caesar?

[Psychotic]

The Spanish guy who was on the second plane and disagreed with Lapidus's decisions.

Man, I feel sorry for young Ben. Abused by his father, and then putting a lot of effort into helping one of the Hostiles who he thinks will take him away from all that, only to get stabbed in the back. Well, shot in the front, but same difference. No wonder he turned out like he did.

[McLovin']

The next episode better have Faraday.

[Moon Rabbits]

The next episode better have Faraday.

I hear ya.

[Levian]

Horace is not a very pretty name

[Moon Rabbits]

Horace is not a very pretty name

I like his character, though.

[Flying Mullet]

Man, I feel sorry for young Ben. Abused by his father, and then putting a lot of effort into helping one of the Hostiles who he thinks will take him away from all that, only to get stabbed in the back. Well, shot in the front, but same difference. No wonder he turned out like he did.
Perhaps Ben learned how to manipulate from Sayid, thus Sayid screwed himself and the Losties over.

[The Man]

I think it's pretty obvious that Ben turns out the way he does because Sayid tries to kill him. A nice touch of irony there.

[LunarWeaver]

I dunno... He already seemed pretty Ben to me. He was lying already, threw a bus on fire into someone's house which could have very much killed them, and he's fully intent on betraying everyone else to make himself happy. Yeah, he's being smacked around by his dad and stuff, but whatever. My childhood wasn't great, but I didn't join the Taliban and try to destroy where I come from over it (okay, they had a truce at the time, I'm stretching). I'm sure getting shot will help the problem along, but Sayid didn't cause his personality to be what it is, I don't think.

But then I find no wrong in anything Sayid does. Fanboy blind and all.

[Moon Rabbits]

I dunno... He already seemed pretty Ben to me. He was lying already, threw a bus on fire into someone's house which could have very much killed them, and he's fully intent on betraying everyone else to make himself happy. Yeah, he's being smacked around by his dad and stuff, but whatever. My childhood wasn't great, but I didn't join the Taliban and try to destroy where I come from over it (okay, they had a truce at the time, I'm stretching). I'm sure getting shot will help the problem along, but Sayid didn't cause his personality to be what it is, I don't think.

But then I find no wrong in anything Sayid does. Fanboy blind and all.

Yeah, Ben has been a bit off ever since he was born > _ > The only people I think he ever really cared for were Alex and Annie, maybe Juliet at some point but I think his love for her was more of a "you're my play thing" obsession or something. I'm curious to know if Annie was killed in the Purge.

ACTUALLY, I read a really interesting theory concerning the whole situation. It suggested that you have to die in order to become the leader of the Others (we already know you have to be willing to kill, or make some sort of "pledge," such as John did with killing his father). Anyway, John's already died and come back to life, but the person who thought up the theory speculates that the reason Ben was so antagonistic towards Sayid after they got off the Island was because he knew Sayid had to go back in time to shoot him in order for him to become the leader of the Others. After all, surely Ben knew Sayid would shoot him in the past regardless if dying is a criteria for becoming the Others' leader.

[McLovin']

M. Night Shymalan to direct finale

In a shockingly quiet press release yesterday, executive producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof, revealed that the director of the series finale would be none other than acclaimed director M. Night Shymalan. The content of the finale still remains a secret, but Lindelof and Cuse stated that they wished to "get a hold" on the most important episode of next year, to make sure that everything goes "without a hitch." Shyamalan, director of such films as The Sixth Sense, Unbreakable, and Lady in the Water says that he is more than up for the challenge, and will begin working with the producers as soon as his newest film, The Last Airbender, completes production.
: OOOOOO

[Flying Mullet]

April Fool's! :spin:

[The Man]

lol april fool's. :monster:

[LunarWeaver]

I figured Kate came back mostly for Sawyer since she's all like that. I'm pleasantly surprised it was more to get Aaron's biological mother back.

Hahaha, Jack fucks up again.

[The Man]

Well, that's what she said. We still don't know if that's entirely true or not.

Best episode this season so far? I'm thinking yes.

[McLovin']

Next episode promo looks good.

[Flying Mullet]

As long as it has Smokey, life's good.

[Psychotic]

I figured Kate came back mostly for Sawyer since she's all like that. I'm pleasantly surprised it was more to get Aaron's biological mother back. I think it's a little from column A, a little from column B.

[Levian]

Can't go wrong with 40 minutes of Kate.

and last minute from this episode looked more like a scene from Days of our lives than Lost really.

Hello..... Marlena! [camera zooms in on face] I turned your aunt into a robot goat and inseminated it with your child! [music builds up while maintaining focus on intense facial expression]

[Del Murder]

Pretty decent for a Kate episode. I like the irony of how Jack refused to operate because of who Ben becomes, but he becomes that way because Jack refused to operate.

The next one looks good too. Perhaps an epic battle between Ben and Smokey is in order. I don't like where (when?) they took this show but at least it's still entertaining.

[Croyles]

I hope Jack can redeem himself for all his assiness before the end of this show, cause he's not such a bad character. I liked him in the beginning, I think he kind of had to become the leader from the start and it messed him up towards the end.

[Del Murder]

Jack was put in a difficult situation with people looking up to him for leadership. Then you got Locke running around acting all weird, plus the presense of the Others and all the other weird crap on the island. He did the best he could with that, and I doubt many could do better. It definitely messed him up and I'm sure he'll get his redemption eventually.

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

best kate episode so far in this show!

begining to warm up to Myles now! i lol'd at their time travel conversation! Sawyer, Hurley and Juilet are awesome too lol!

[LunarWeaver]

I figured Kate came back mostly for Sawyer since she's all like that. I'm pleasantly surprised it was more to get Aaron's biological mother back. I think it's a little from column A, a little from column B.

Hey, I said mostly, not only :( I reckon she wanted to see Sawyer again and all, but she would not have agreed to go back with only that reason. Needed at least another one iyam.

I honestly want Sawyer to leave Juliet and go for Kate. Why do I wish for such things?

[Moon Rabbits]

Pretty decent for a Kate episode. I like the irony of how Jack refused to operate because of who Ben becomes, but he becomes that way because Jack refused to operate.

The next one looks good too. Perhaps an epic battle between Ben and Smokey is in order. I don't like where (when?) they took this show but at least it's still entertaining.

I was kind of confused with the direction they took the narrative when they added in time travel, too, but when you think about it they've been building up to that for the entire series. Adam and Eve are a subtle first indication, other random mentions of experiments with space-time and other physics crap in the Dharma orientation videos, Desmond's future telling abilities (+ Eloise Hawking in season 3 (?) talking to Desmond about course correction, etc.). Not to mention flashbacks / flash forwards, which are signaled in the show very similar to time travel (flash backs / forwards are signaled with that wooshing noise, zoom in on the eye, etc. etc., time travel has the epic screeching + purple noise). Anyway - time travel was very heavily hinted at throughout most of the third and fourth seasons, so by the time it happened, I was sort of assuming it would.

[Craig]

Pretty decent for a Kate episode. I like the irony of how Jack refused to operate because of who Ben becomes, but he becomes that way because Jack refused to operate.

The next one looks good too. Perhaps an epic battle between Ben and Smokey is in order. I don't like where (when?) they took this show but at least it's still entertaining.

I was kind of confused with the direction they took the narrative when they added in time travel, too, but when you think about it they've been building up to that for the entire series. Adam and Eve are a subtle first indication, other random mentions of experiments with space-time and other physics crap in the Dharma orientation videos, Desmond's future telling abilities (+ Eloise Hawking in season 3 (?) talking to Desmond about course correction, etc.). Not to mention flashbacks / flash forwards, which are signaled in the show very similar to time travel (flash backs / forwards are signaled with that wooshing noise, zoom in on the eye, etc. etc., time travel has the epic screeching + purple noise). Anyway - time travel was very heavily hinted at throughout most of the third and fourth seasons, so by the time it happened, I was sort of assuming it would.

can you give some examples of time travel being hinted at in season 3 and 4? dont worry if not, im just curious

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

Pretty decent for a Kate episode. I like the irony of how Jack refused to operate because of who Ben becomes, but he becomes that way because Jack refused to operate.

The next one looks good too. Perhaps an epic battle between Ben and Smokey is in order. I don't like where (when?) they took this show but at least it's still entertaining.

I was kind of confused with the direction they took the narrative when they added in time travel, too, but when you think about it they've been building up to that for the entire series. Adam and Eve are a subtle first indication, other random mentions of experiments with space-time and other physics crap in the Dharma orientation videos, Desmond's future telling abilities (+ Eloise Hawking in season 3 (?) talking to Desmond about course correction, etc.). Not to mention flashbacks / flash forwards, which are signaled in the show very similar to time travel (flash backs / forwards are signaled with that wooshing noise, zoom in on the eye, etc. etc., time travel has the epic screeching + purple noise). Anyway - time travel was very heavily hinted at throughout most of the third and fourth seasons, so by the time it happened, I was sort of assuming it would.

can you give some examples of time travel being hinted at in season 3 and 4? dont worry if not, im just curious

There was that thing in season 3...where desmond could see ahead of time everytime charlie was about to die...and then eliose gave him that speech about time course correcting itself... in season 4 'the constant' episode was a big hint...desmond going back (mentally) to visit faraday...and at the time faraday was making a machine for that mouse that send its mind into the future! then there was that thing with the doctor dying on 'island time' but still alive on 'freighter time'...i think that hinted more about time being smurfed on the island but still.. about time nonetheless lol

[PeneloRatsbane]

Kate saying goodbye to Aaron was so sad, :(
I loved the bit with the temple, that Temple excites me so

[Moon Rabbits]

Pretty decent for a Kate episode. I like the irony of how Jack refused to operate because of who Ben becomes, but he becomes that way because Jack refused to operate.

The next one looks good too. Perhaps an epic battle between Ben and Smokey is in order. I don't like where (when?) they took this show but at least it's still entertaining.

I was kind of confused with the direction they took the narrative when they added in time travel, too, but when you think about it they've been building up to that for the entire series. Adam and Eve are a subtle first indication, other random mentions of experiments with space-time and other physics crap in the Dharma orientation videos, Desmond's future telling abilities (+ Eloise Hawking in season 3 (?) talking to Desmond about course correction, etc.). Not to mention flashbacks / flash forwards, which are signaled in the show very similar to time travel (flash backs / forwards are signaled with that wooshing noise, zoom in on the eye, etc. etc., time travel has the epic screeching + purple noise). Anyway - time travel was very heavily hinted at throughout most of the third and fourth seasons, so by the time it happened, I was sort of assuming it would.

can you give some examples of time travel being hinted at in season 3 and 4? dont worry if not, im just curious

I already gave you many examples. It's been leading up to time travel since the beginning. Season 1 served as an introduction to the characters and the Island, setting it somewhere outside of reality, outside of space. The end of season 1 set up most of the plot for season 2: the Others, Ben, the Hatch, the Numbers, etc. and so on. Season 2 served as an introduction to the stranger properties of the Island and a lot of 'supernatural' phenomena (though, a lot of the supernatural stuff in S2 was scientific physics-ey electro-magnetism crap that all had to do with the hatch). Anyway, S2 ended with Jack+Co. being kidnapped by the Others, so naturally S3 was all about the Others. S3 ends with Naomi reaching the Island (and I believe being killed by Locke?), which leads into S4 which is all about the Freighter people (and Widmore).

S3 had various hints at time travel and the nature of time in Lost - foremost, as I mentioned before, were Desmond's future-telling abilities. Actually, there was even an instance of actual time travel in S3 (Desmond going back in time, meeting Eloise, who in turn tells him about course correction).

As for S4, how could you miss the references to time travel? They were everywhere. Desmond time travels again, this time through multiple time periods (iirc), Faraday has his machine which he was using to send rats' minds back in time, when Faraday sends for his payload there is a half-hour (or some noticeable time difference) discrepancy between the freighter time and Island time, the doctor on the Freighter washes up dead on the Island but is still alive on the Freighter because of this discrepancy ...

then, Ben "moves" the Island through space-time at the end of S4, which brings us to S5 which is all about time and time travel on the Island.

[The Man]

So yeah, this latest episode was doubleplusgood.

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

omg epic anyone!?

anything with smokey is awesome lol and dang there was heaps of it!

from what i remember from ancient history (ages ago)...there was a scale that judged you in the underworld...you place your heart in it and if it heavier than a feather then a monster would come eat you up...(sorry abit random but thats all i kept thinking about when those images popped up) how awesome was it that alex was there too lol!

[McLovin']

Well, we don't have a word for it John, but we call it...the monster.

[Levian]

That Alex chick has grown a bit since she died.

and that death early in the episode was a bit surprising.

[Psychotic]

Wow that was great. It was nice to finally see what caused the Ben and Widmore rift.

Also damn, Caesar, didn't see that coming because of how much he was built up, but I laughed when Ben iced him, that was cold. I guess it's all down to Illana then. What the fuck is this secret society crap she has going on? Dharma? Widmore? Somebody else?

Finally, ha, more Egypt references.

[Flying Mullet]

Caesar getting blasted was awesome. He was a total douche anyway.

What the smurf is this secret society crap she has going on?
Secret Squirrels.

Good call on the Widmore bit. He could have had those people tail Ben and get on the plane to see how he would get back. Except that the girl was taking Sayid into custody, so that's harder to explain.

[Moon Rabbits]

Favorite episode of the season so far. I forgot why Locke was so awesome, and then I watched this episode and remembered. Caesar's death was pretty damn funny, esp. since I thought he was going to be a main character next season or something. Was it just me, or did anyone else think that Ben wanted the monster to kill him? I mean, it seems like all he really wants is to see his real daughter again (not a crazy monster replica of her) ... and it seems like the monster's decision was more of a punishment than anything else - I think being forced to blindly follow someone is one of the worst things Ben could suffer through, considering his character.

I was a bit let down by the Ben vs. Penny scene ... I wonder why Ben wants Sun to apologize to Desmond? Is it because he tried to kill Penny, or something bigger? Maybe he wound up succeeding ... since, don't you think he would want to apologize to Penny more than Desmond? O - o ??



from what i remember from ancient history (ages ago)...there was a scale that judged you in the underworld...you place your heart in it and if it heavier than a feather then a monster would come eat you up...(sorry abit random but thats all i kept thinking about when those images popped up) how awesome was it that alex was there too lol!

Yes - that also happens to be Egyptian lore, which the show is obviously drawing a lot of its mythology from. I wonder what the stone carving above the monster's grate that the camera focused so long on means. It looked like Anubis ... and the other thing sort of looked like the monster, but with a face.


Caesar getting blasted was awesome. He was a total douche anyway.

What the smurf is this secret society crap she has going on?
Secret Squirrels.

Good call on the Widmore bit. He could have had those people tail Ben and get on the plane to see how he would get back. Except that the girl was taking Sayid into custody, so that's harder to explain.

Widmore knows how to get to and from the Island - Ben mentioned in a flashback that Widmore broke "the rules" by leaving the Island multiple times, and having a child with an "outsider" (afaik Penny's mother hasn't been revealed ...). Though, I think they may be talking about someone other than Penny perhaps? I still think Penny is Eloise Hawkings' daughter > _ >

ANYWAY ! It's already been established that Ilana is working for Widmore. I think that Widmore's original plan was to kill the O6 off of the Island so that they couldn't get back and fix whatever it is they have to fix. I don't think he anticipated that Ilana and Sayid would be on the same plane ... or did he? That would make sense, too, since it gives him an "inside (wo)man" on the Island. And is Widmore still in contact with Eloise? It was insinuated in the last episode that they had some sort of relationship (perhaps not an emotional relationship, but they were both spoken of by the Others' as higher-ups when the injured young Ben was brought to them).

Oh, and Ethan becomes one of the Others after the Purge ... so does that mean that Annie, perhaps, became one too? Or did she die in the Purge? I want to know ; - ;

Also, here's a major major major major major major spoiler concerning Jacob, read at your own rissssssk:
Jacob was present at several defining moments in the survivors' lives:
he was at Sawyer's parents' funeral, Jin and Sun's wedding, Nadia's death, and was reading a book across the street when Locke was thrown from Anthony Cooper's window. They've also hired an actor to play Jacob already, which means he will appear before the end of S5 ... I forgot his name though >_>

[Flying Mullet]

I wonder why Ben wants Sun to apologize to Desmond?
Because Ben shot Desmond at the dock when he was approaching Penny.


Widmore knows how to get to and from the Island - Ben mentioned in a flashback that Widmore broke "the rules" by leaving the Island multiple times, and having a child with an "outsider"
But I think Widmore was using the sub to do that. Since Locke blew up the sub, the only apparent way onto the island was cut off. I think Ben called Charles not only to tell him he was going to kill Penny but to also gloat over the fact that he found another way onto the island after Widmore spent 20 years trying without any success.

[Moon Rabbits]

I wonder why Ben wants Sun to apologize to Desmond?
Because Ben shot Desmond at the dock when he was approaching Penny.


Widmore knows how to get to and from the Island - Ben mentioned in a flashback that Widmore broke "the rules" by leaving the Island multiple times, and having a child with an "outsider"
But I think Widmore was using the sub to do that. Since Locke blew up the sub, the only apparent way onto the island was cut off. I think Ben called Charles not only to tell him he was going to kill Penny but to also gloat over the fact that he found another way onto the island after Widmore spent 20 years trying without any success.

Ooooooooh, yeah, you're right. Before he attacks Penny, he specifically mentions that to Widmore. Also: Ilana actually states she was working for the family of the golf course guy that Sayid killed way back, which means she isn't technically working for Widmore (though, the golf course guy was employed by Widmore). I think Ilana might be working for Dharma, actually .....

[Del Murder]

I love Ben episodes. This was a great one. The way he lies with so much confidence is beautiful. 'I thought something like this might happen John, that was the point'. Later to Sun...'I had no idea this would happen, and it scares the crap out of me.'

Best part was Desmond out of nowhere kicking Ben's ass. I was so mad because I thought Desmond was being randomly killed off. I'm glad his family ended up ok, someone needs to have a happy ending on this show.

Ben + smoke monster = awesome, as many have already said.

Ben and Locke have such a great dynamic already, and now Ben has to be his lackey. This will be much amusement. What's happening with the 'main group' in the 70s is not nearly as interesting as what is happening in the present.

[McLovin']

The timeline doesn't make sense though. The Purge happened in 1992. And this episode has little Ethan in it which means its after 1992. But when Ben took little Alex, she was only like at least a year old. So that would mean its 1988 not 1992...so is this a big continuity error or am I missing something?

[Del Murder]

Where does it say the purge happened in 1992?

[McLovin']

"The exact year the Purge occurred was not mentioned during Ben's flashback in "The Man Behind the Curtain"; however, Horace Goodspeed told Locke in a dream that he had been dead for twelve years. Assuming that this is correct, it places the Purge in 1992"

[Del Murder]

'Time works differently on the island.'

Bam, there's your cop-out response I bet. :D

[Croyles]

Wow! That episode was pure awesome. Things are finally starting to come together after so much work. I think the people who abandoned Lost are gonna regret it by the end of the last season :)

[LunarWeaver]

Great episode.

Hadn't Locke given the impression he was not going to bring Sun back in accordance with Jin's wishes? My memory is totally :bou::bou::bou::bou:, so I could be remembering this wrong, but I don't think he even approached her at all for this reason. I thought Locke would be pissed that Sun was back, but there was no reaction to it.

[Kirobaito]

The timeline doesn't make sense though. The Purge happened in 1992. And this episode has little Ethan in it which means its after 1992. But when Ben took little Alex, she was only like at least a year old. So that would mean its 1988 not 1992...so is this a big continuity error or am I missing something?
Ethan could have defected just as Ben did prior to the Purge. Perhaps that explains why Ethan's last name is "Rom" and not "Goodspeed."

Also, I hope everyone noticed the significance of the name of Penny and Desmond's boat!

[The Man]

Of course. I'm sure that'll tie into the plot sooner or later.

[Levian]

What was the name? I tried to look when I was watching but it was too pixelated.

[Croyles]

I couldnt read the name either...

[Levian]

Checked lostpedia. I thought "our mutual friend" was just Ben talking about Penny. :p apparently it's some book Desmond has been carrying around.

looking back I think Exposé is easily my favorite episode since Season 2. :D

[McLovin']

Our Mutual Friend is the name of the boat. I think.

[Psychotic]

Wasn't Ethan born in 1977? If the kidnapping took place after the purge, he'd have been at least 22, and he looked younger. Ben also looks younger in that scene than during the purge, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it happened before it. Perhaps the two would often sneak away at night or at weekends to the Others.

[sdm42393]

They've also hired an actor to play Jacob already, which means he will appear before the end of S5 ... I forgot his name though >_>

Matthew Fox, duh! :roll2

[Kirobaito]

Our Mutual Friend was the name of the boat, and it was the Dickens book that Desmond said would be the last thing he ever read while in the Hatch.

And Psy, the Purge was in '92, not '99, we're basically sure of. We know it occurred after February of '91 (Kelvin Inman was in the Army during the First Gulf War and was in the Swan, locked away, at the time of the Purge), and yeah, Horace said it was in '92. Even then, I don't think that Ethan was 15 yet. He looked more around 11-12, which would fit with it occurring in '88 or '89.

[Moon Rabbits]

'Time works differently on the island.'

Bam, there's your cop-out response I bet. :D

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how a lot of things are going to be explained by the end of the series > _ > ie. Ethan's age ... but maybe the actor just didn't look 15 o_ O

Mikhail said that the Purge was the result of DHARMA initiating "war" against the Others. Who wants to bet that Sawyer + co. had everything to do with it?

[McLovin']

YouTube - Lost Timeline Theorie - Main theory - (1 of 3) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lP5WHBB2ec&feature=channel)

This theory on Lost is really great if you want to watch it.

[The Man]

Another awesome episode, I thought. Miles is becoming one of my favourite characters.

[McLovin']

Anyone thinking that Older Miles it responsible for saving younger miles and his mom from the Purge?

[Flying Mullet]

Yup yup, that's what we were thinking when he was watching his dad and his baby self reading that book.

[Kirobaito]

Anyone thinking that Older Miles it responsible for saving younger miles and his mom from the Purge?
I doubt it. For one, Miles knows that whatever happened, happened, and that he DIDN'T die in the Purge (which is 15 years from now), so I don't think he's going to worry about it. His dad kicks his wife and son out of the house when they're young, and so they leave. She didn't leave him.

So, the folks who took Miles for a ride aren't Widmore. Are they DHARMA?

[Del Murder]

Filler episode~ although Hurley writing Empire Strikes Back was lol worthy.

The 70s episodes remind me of when the group was split up before and JKS was on that other island with the Others. Man those episodes were boring.

I don't think those people were Dharma, but if they were it would mean his father could be alive. They probably work for Ben.

[McLovin']

They can't work for Ben since they didn't seem to talk to him on the plane.

[Flying Mullet]

Unless they're supposed to ignore him... :shifty:

[Del Murder]

Oh that guy in the car was on the second plane?

[Flying Mullet]

He's one of the guys that took over the crate when Frank gets back and they ask him about the shadow of the statue and then knock him out.

[Croyles]

in the shadow of the statue lies the smoke monster

[Craig]

random crack pot theory i just came up with in 0.5 seconds:

the statue they mean is the big egyptian one and there is something near there that wouldve been covered by its shadow at a certain point if it were still standing and that something has shown these people "the truth" about something, which if frank, miles or anyone else had seen they would know too which is why they asked them that, cos if frank etc had seen it theyd be on the same level as those ppl then theyd be on the same side

makes no sense dont worry

[Croyles]

I think the statue used to be where ben went to confront the smoke monster?

[Flying Mullet]

The statue's on the coastline. When Sayid and others were sailing around the island when they believed The Others were camped on the beach to save Walt, they saw the four-toed foot, all that remains of the statue. Then we saw the whole statue from the back at a distance when the Losties that remained on the island were jumping around in time travel.

[Psychotic]

The statue and the shadow of it plus that gang of crazies is all to do with the Egyptian crap. You wait and see!

[Croyles]

The statue's on the coastline. When Sayid and others were sailing around the island when they believed The Others were camped on the beach to save Walt, they saw the four-toed foot, all that remains of the statue. Then we saw the whole statue from the back at a distance when the Losties that remained on the island were jumping around in time travel.

Ah your right.


The statue and the shadow of it plus that gang of crazies is all to do with the Egyptian crap. You wait and see!

Well duh.

[The Man]

So, the folks who took Miles for a ride aren't Widmore. Are they DHARMA?[/QUOTE]



Anyone thinking that Older Miles it responsible for saving younger miles and his mom from the Purge?
I doubt it. For one, Miles knows that whatever happened, happened, and that he DIDN'T die in the Purge (which is 15 years from now), so I don't think he's going to worry about it. His dad kicks his wife and son out of the house when they're young, and so they leave. She didn't leave him.Nah I think McLovin's theory is plausible. I'm thinking the way Harry saved himself in Prisoner of Azkaban - he finally realised no one else was going to do it, he had to do it himself. That's the way it'll be if it happens, mark my words. I'm also certain the story Miles' mother told him is wrong - she lied about Pierre not caring about them, so odds of her having lied about other stuff as well are pretty high.


random crack pot theory i just came up with in 0.5 seconds:

the statue they mean is the big egyptian one and there is something near there that wouldve been covered by its shadow at a certain point if it were still standing and that something has shown these people "the truth" about something, which if frank, miles or anyone else had seen they would know too which is why they asked them that, cos if frank etc had seen it theyd be on the same level as those ppl then theyd be on the same side

makes no sense dont worryThat actually sounds plausible to me. Though I also think it's probably a secret password. I agree with Kirobaito that these people are probably associated with the remains of the Dharma Initiative.

[McLovin']

Good eppy. Didn't reveal much we didn't already know cept for what the Swan's true purpose was.

[Paro]

Best episode this season and I've loved all episodes this season so far.Season finale is going to blow our brains. With one more season left after this one has to wonder what will happen either way, fail or succeed, what's going to happen?And what's in the shadow of the statue?! What's with the egyptian hieroglyphs, where does the energy come from, what is the island really!?

God, I love this show, the temporal gymnastics, and all it's character's fracked up parental issues.

[Psychotic]

God damn. That was good television. Everything Eloise did with Daniel throughout his life, you realise why. To try to change :bou::bou::bou::bou: by pushing him as hard as possible to be the best he can be. But she also knows it could backfire and she could be the one pushing him to his doom at her hands. Thus "For the first time, I don't know what is going to happen" to Penny. Daniel's Variable theory and all that. Which is weird as she seemed like such a huge believer in "whatever happened, happened", that phrase they all keep throwing around.

I love the episodes leading up to Lost finales. You can see the slow and unstoppable descent into insanity gradually building up and it's fantastic.

EDIT: Holy :bou::bou::bou::bou: I just realised Faraday is the guy from Saving Private Ryan. Man, I knew I'd seen him somewhere before.

[The Man]

Great episode, possibly even better than the Ben-centric one a few weeks ago. man, Faraday had a bleak existence though, didn't he? Methinks his final thoughts would've been about how his bright ideas about changing everything resulted in nothing being changed, and how his own mother raised him so austerely knowing that she'd end up inadvertently killing him as a direct result of him traveling back to the past. I kind of think he almost had to do go back there for the sake of not fucking up everything massively though, since if he didn't go back to 1953 then the H-bomb would probably explode, killing everyone and creating a time paradox.

though it's possible Eloise was just hoping that if she raised him well enough he'd be able to change :bou::bou::bou::bou:, but who knows really. Maybe we'll find out more in future episodes.

Anyway yeah, definitely one of the best this season so far.

[Del Murder]

So what was Daniel doing on the mainland for 3 years?

Lost sure loves to kill off the newer characters.

[Psychotic]

So what was Daniel doing on the mainland for 3 years?Hiding from Charlotte. He shouldn't have talked to her, really, because until he did, he was invulnerable.
Lost sure loves to kill off the newer characters.Look out, Miles! I'm pretty sure they added the tail section folks just to kill them. Looking back on it, they had absolutely no bearing on anything whatsoever.

[Flying Mullet]

The producers and writers said they strayed from the original story idea in season two. I wonder if the tail section was purely a ratings grab that backfired. The only way the tail would tie in is if Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve or Bernard has some impact on the story still.

[The Man]

I'm still convinced Rose and Bernard are going to end up being Adam and Eve. I also think they originally planned to do more with Libby's character until her actor got a DUI, but I also think we may still end up seeing her again through Hurley at some point. Though I think I remember someone saying Darlton claimed we wouldn't, but I don't remember if they had a source on that.

[Flying Mullet]

I thought I read somewhere a year or two ago that we would see more of Libby, but we haven't, if I'm remembering correctly.

And yes, a DUI is a character write-off on <i>Lost</i>.

[McLovin']

They said Libby's story was done and there was no need to show more of her.


Carlton: Uhh, you know, again, these are not questions that we are going to answer. I think the point we were trying to make with the Libby story is that everything is graded in terms of importance for us, and, as we are doing the last season of the show, it's not going to be sort of a didactic, you know, here's a list of a thousand questions that we're going to answer. That would not make for a very entertaining show. We are focusing on what we consider to be the significant questions, and mysteries, and character relationships. That's the story that we're gonna tell. I think that the reference to Libby was more illustrative of the fact that I think, we accept the fact that in the end of the day there will, probably, you could ask a spectrum of a thousand different fans “Well what question did you not get answered?” and there might be a thousand different answers, but we are focusing on what we consider to be the main questions of the show and the main narritive. It's i! mpossible to tie up every loose end, and we don't really consider, honestly, Libby's story is incredibly tangential to the principle action on the show. For us, the focus of the final season really has to be on the main characters and what would generally be acknowledged as the most significant mysteries.

[Psychotic]

Desmond's actor is in a spot of legal bother after apparently groping and motorboating a female crew member on the Lost set. So Desmond is probably going to get shot or catapulted into the sun or something now. :(

[Moon Rabbits]

MOST UPSETTING EPISODE EVER.

Really. Daniel added so much to the show. I wanted his character to stay alive, but I'm really impressed with how the writers played him out.

Juliet + Sawyer = captured by Dharma. I can't wait to see how that plays out.

Also: I think the producers are lying about Libby's story being finished. She worked for Widmore, toooooootally. Speaking of the Tailies - Bernard isn't the only surviving one. Cindy is alive and living with the Others.

[Flying Mullet]

I think we were supposed to forget about Cindy. Not that she'll come back for a surprise, but that she was a bit character who's gone from the show.

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

Great episode! Cant stand Jack though!

[Psychotic]

I actually watched the Taillies episode the other day and wondered about the possible return of Cindy. But I think I agree with Mullet. Even among the Taillies she was a pretty minor character, and the likes of Nathan and Goodwin got more screen time.

[The Man]

So, according to Wikipedia, the central character for this week's episode is Richard Alpert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(season_5)).

SMURF. YES.

[Psychotic]

Holy :bou::bou::bou::bou:, awesome. Been waiting for that one for a loooong time.

[Moon Rabbits]

FUCK YOU KATE!!! I was sooooo pissed when she got on the sub.

Also, little scrawny guy hitting Juliet :eek: I really hope James gets to kill him.

[LunarWeaver]

It's so sad that when the doctor was asking Hugo those time related questions, I couldn't come up with answers on the spot either.

Anyway, good episode. Really hoping Jacob makes a genuine appearance in the finale. All I needed is more Sayid, little as it was. I've been missing him hardcore. As for Kate and Jack, I'm honestly not entirely sure which way I would go on the matter.

[Psychotic]

I would've gone with Nixon on the spot. And I would've been ever so slightly wrong. But hey ask me who the British Prime Minister was in '77 and I would correctly say James Callaghan and none of you have even heard of him so don't judge me. :colbert:

Was hoping this Richard episode would've explained his past (I wonder if he is associated with the Black Rock! Or Egypt! Or both! Or is he from the future and is Aaron and Yi Jeon's child? WHO KNOWS) but eh it'll do. My face was like Ben's when Locke revealed his grand plan.

[Flying Mullet]

Or is he from the future and is Aaron and Yi Jeon's child?
This. *nod*

[sdm42393]

smurf YOU KATE!!! I was sooooo pissed when she got on the sub.

And judging by the preview, she somehow messes up possibly the best relationship Sawyer's ever had.

And the "Jack is Jacob" theory is starting to become more plausible seeing how he's beginning to believe in "fate" and "destiny." I guess we'll find out next week. :)

[McLovin']

Maybe Jack causes the Incident by taking the explosive parts of the H-Bomb to the Swan Site hence emulsifying the pocket of energy which originally discharged. Just a thought.

Though all of DHARMA are gone and its pre-Purge so maybe they did change things?

Or they came back of course...

[Flying Mullet]

My wife's following the theory that Locke is actually dead and Jacob inhabits or borrows dead bodies to interact with the inhabitants of the island. This is why Locke, Christian, Claire and Mr. Eko's brother's characters all act differently and omnipotent after they are dead. This is also why no one has ever seen Jacob, as he doesn't have a tangible form. Currently Jacob is using Locke's body and he is testing Richard and Ben when he told Ben that they are headed off to kill Jacob.

[Del Murder]

I still don't understand why Sun stuck around while all the rest went back in time, other than the fact that the writers wanted to build up to a Jin Sun reunion some time in the future.

Also why would detonating an a-bomb cause everything to get 'fixed'? Jack's lost it and I'm pretty sure Sayid went along to stop him.

[Flying Mullet]

The thought process is that if the bomb detonates then the magnetic energy is never released from the drilling and the bomb neutralizes that energy. Thus the plane never crashes in the future if the bomb goes off and everyone wakes up in a new timeline where the plane never crashed. Similar to the parallel timelines they used in <i>Back to the Future 2</i> where Biff gave himself that sports book and became a billionaire in the alternate 1985.

The contradiction comes in because they've stated that you can't change the past, but what if an action you perform in the past effects your past <i>and</i> future?

[Del Murder]

Well the bomb would kill everyone so it's a pretty dumb idea.

[Craig]

i dunno about the rest of you but for some reason i just have this feeling that come season 6 everything that has happened so far will just be obsolete.

like, it seems to me that the whole show so far has been leading up to the season 5 finale, stuff like the hatch being in season 1 then hints of time travel, then full blown time travel, now the story is based around the hatch again, among other things.

but i just get the feeling that they will end up in 2007 again, drop the whole time travel thing and most of the stuff that has happened so far (especially anything dharma related) just wont be important anymore.

i dunno maybe its just me

[McLovin']

They said the time-travel stuff will be wrapped up and be over in the finale.

Jack can't succeed because if he blows up the island and they all die and none of it ever happened then there isn't a show anymore so creative wise the writers wouldn't do that.

And yes the idea is to kill them all as well as the pocket of energy which is why the need for an evacuation.

[Psychotic]

Or is he from the future and is Aaron and Yi Jeon's child?
This. *nod*I dunno, you know. That he was building a ship in a bottle makes me think he might be from The Black Rock. Although no reason both can't be true.
Also why would detonating an a-bomb cause everything to get 'fixed'? Jack's lost it and I'm pretty sure Sayid went along to stop him.Well, yeah, Jack's crazy, but Sayid's hardly a bastion of sanity either. Also, I'm going to guess Jack has no idea how the fuck to detonate a hydrogen bomb, and if there's one person on the island who does, it'd be Sayid.

[Moon Rabbits]

My wife's following the theory that Locke is actually dead and Jacob inhabits or borrows dead bodies to interact with the inhabitants of the island. This is why Locke, Christian, Claire and Mr. Eko's brother's characters all act differently and omnipotent after they are dead. This is also why no one has ever seen Jacob, as he doesn't have a tangible form. Currently Jacob is using Locke's body and he is testing Richard and Ben when he told Ben that they are headed off to kill Jacob.

At first, I thought this was a very likely answer to the whole "Locke is alive" mystery, but ... They've cast an actor for Jacob, so he does have a corporeal form - in fact, spoilers say that Jacob will be visiting the remaining survivors at pivotal moments in their lives: Sawyer's parents' funeral, Sun and Jin's wedding, Nadia's (Sayid's love) murder, and outside Athony Cooper's suite after Locke is thrown from the window. I'm assuming he appears to Hurley while he is in jail and helps him escape, since Hurley's journey back to the Island has yet to be explained. I haven't read anything about Jacob interacting with Kate, which sort of makes me think she either: a) is the one who dies in the finale, or b) the black horse is Jacob appearing to Kate.

ANYWAY - Same goes for Jack. No spoilers about Jacob appearing to him. Why? Because Jack is Jacob :D. More than likely, the reason Locke is going to kill Jacob is because of he and Jack's longstanding rivalry, since their whole dynamic has been slowly turning them against each other. I think Locke has some special knowledge of the future / past since dying ... Jacob, if he is Jack, seems like he exists 'outside' of time, so in killing Jacob perhaps Locke is going to be the one who truly changes the past, not Jack. What I mean is that Jacob has obviously been around for a long time, so my theory is that Jacob is Jack trapped in a giant time loop that never ends (ie. at the end of time, Jacob is sent back to the beginning), and by killing Jacob (at any point in time) messes this loop up and just smurfs :bou::bou::bou::bou: up in general. Whatever happened, happened ... but the future hasn't /technically/ happened yet, so it's changeable from Locke's point in time (the present).


Maybe Jack causes the Incident by taking the explosive parts of the H-Bomb to the Swan Site hence emulsifying the pocket of energy which originally discharged. Just a thought.

Though all of DHARMA are gone and its pre-Purge so maybe they did change things?


I'd wager that Jack is definitely the cause of the Incident. Likewise, he is also responsible for the loss of Dr. Chang's arm in the fray. Jack thinks the drilling causes the Incident, so he's gonna blow :bou::bou::bou::bou: up to stop it. In reality, what I think is going to happen, is the H-Bomb causes the Incident and releases the electromagnetic force (wherein the only way to fix it is encasing it in cement, setting up the button ...). So, in actuality, Jack is the cause of the very thing he seeks to prevent. If that doesn't make him believe in destiny, I don't know what will.



Also why would detonating an a-bomb cause everything to get 'fixed'? Jack's lost it and I'm pretty sure Sayid went along to stop him.

Naw, previews of the finale show Sayid more or less taking charge of the whole operation. He has personal stake in changing the timeline, too, since it would stop Nadia from dying.

Oh, and I'm really confused about the entire third and second season now. If Richard (and, presumeably Ben) knew Jack and Co. time traveled to the past, why were they so antagonistic towards them? Were they trying to truly hurt (or kill) them in an attempt to change the past? On Ben's part, this seems likely. Or, were they trying to nudge the survivors in the right direction? Making sure they follow their destiny? Evidently, the Others do have some way to predict or see the future, since they built the landing strip for flight 316 to land on and Eloise has remarked that she is unsure what is going to happen "for the first time in a long time." I don't know. The whole behavior of the Others in the previous seasons just confuses me now, since they obviously knew that Oceanic 815's crash was more than just a random occurence.

[Craig]

My wife's following the theory that Locke is actually dead and Jacob inhabits or borrows dead bodies to interact with the inhabitants of the island. This is why Locke, Christian, Claire and Mr. Eko's brother's characters all act differently and omnipotent after they are dead. This is also why no one has ever seen Jacob, as he doesn't have a tangible form. Currently Jacob is using Locke's body and he is testing Richard and Ben when he told Ben that they are headed off to kill Jacob.

At first, I thought this was a very likely answer to the whole "Locke is alive" mystery, but ... They've cast an actor for Jacob, so he does have a corporeal form - in fact, spoilers say that Jacob will be visiting the remaining survivors at pivotal moments in their lives: Sawyer's parents' funeral, Sun and Jin's wedding, Nadia's (Sayid's love) murder, and outside Athony Cooper's suite after Locke is thrown from the window. I'm assuming he appears to Hurley while he is in jail and helps him escape, since Hurley's journey back to the Island has yet to be explained. I haven't read anything about Jacob interacting with Kate, which sort of makes me think she either: a) is the one who dies in the finale, or b) the black horse is Jacob appearing to Kate.

ANYWAY - Same goes for Jack. No spoilers about Jacob appearing to him. Why? Because Jack is Jacob :D. More than likely, the reason Locke is going to kill Jacob is because of he and Jack's longstanding rivalry, since their whole dynamic has been slowly turning them against each other. I think Locke has some special knowledge of the future / past since dying ... Jacob, if he is Jack, seems like he exists 'outside' of time, so in killing Jacob perhaps Locke is going to be the one who truly changes the past, not Jack. What I mean is that Jacob has obviously been around for a long time, so my theory is that Jacob is Jack trapped in a giant time loop that never ends (ie. at the end of time, Jacob is sent back to the beginning), and by killing Jacob (at any point in time) messes this loop up and just smurfs :bou::bou::bou::bou: up in general. Whatever happened, happened ... but the future hasn't /technically/ happened yet, so it's changeable from Locke's point in time (the present).


Maybe Jack causes the Incident by taking the explosive parts of the H-Bomb to the Swan Site hence emulsifying the pocket of energy which originally discharged. Just a thought.

Though all of DHARMA are gone and its pre-Purge so maybe they did change things?


I'd wager that Jack is definitely the cause of the Incident. Likewise, he is also responsible for the loss of Dr. Chang's arm in the fray. Jack thinks the drilling causes the Incident, so he's gonna blow :bou::bou::bou::bou: up to stop it. In reality, what I think is going to happen, is the H-Bomb causes the Incident and releases the electromagnetic force (wherein the only way to fix it is encasing it in cement, setting up the button ...). So, in actuality, Jack is the cause of the very thing he seeks to prevent. If that doesn't make him believe in destiny, I don't know what will.



Also why would detonating an a-bomb cause everything to get 'fixed'? Jack's lost it and I'm pretty sure Sayid went along to stop him.

Naw, previews of the finale show Sayid more or less taking charge of the whole operation. He has personal stake in changing the timeline, too, since it would stop Nadia from dying.

Oh, and I'm really confused about the entire third and second season now. If Richard (and, presumeably Ben) knew Jack and Co. time traveled to the past, why were they so antagonistic towards them? Were they trying to truly hurt (or kill) them in an attempt to change the past? On Ben's part, this seems likely. Or, were they trying to nudge the survivors in the right direction? Making sure they follow their destiny? Evidently, the Others do have some way to predict or see the future, since they built the landing strip for flight 316 to land on and Eloise has remarked that she is unsure what is going to happen "for the first time in a long time." I don't know. The whole behavior of the Others in the previous seasons just confuses me now, since they obviously knew that Oceanic 815's crash was more than just a random occurence.

it could be a case of the writers not having decided time travel at the time.. it could be a case of "course correction" who knows

i think the reason eloise no longer knows what will happen is that the oceanic 5 returned. she knew she had to get daniel to go to the island and she knew that she had to get the oceanic 5 to return so events would play out as she remembered. now theyve returned, shes fulfilled what she had to do (and ultimately what she knew would happen anyway because she experienced in the past therefore knew itd happen) and now doesnt know what will happen next, just like anyone else

as for the runway, maybe the others knew 316 would crash so built a run way.. or maybe they just had other reasons for their run way and it was a spot of luck that 316 was near it

[McLovin']

Oh, and I'm really confused about the entire third and second season now. If Richard (and, presumeably Ben) knew Jack and Co. time traveled to the past, why were they so antagonistic towards them? Were they trying to truly hurt (or kill) them in an attempt to change the past? On Ben's part, this seems likely. Or, were they trying to nudge the survivors in the right direction? Making sure they follow their destiny? Evidently, the Others do have some way to predict or see the future, since they built the landing strip for flight 316 to land on and Eloise has remarked that she is unsure what is going to happen "for the first time in a long time." I don't know. The whole behavior of the Others in the previous seasons just confuses me now, since they obviously knew that Oceanic 815's crash was more than just a random occurence.

Because they didn't know it was the same people at first and then what would they do once they finally made certain it was the same time travelers? "Oh hi you need to stay on this island for some time until this wheel is turned and you go back to 1977 to do the stuff you were meant to do. Have a nice day"

[Moon Rabbits]

Oh, and I'm really confused about the entire third and second season now. If Richard (and, presumeably Ben) knew Jack and Co. time traveled to the past, why were they so antagonistic towards them? Were they trying to truly hurt (or kill) them in an attempt to change the past? On Ben's part, this seems likely. Or, were they trying to nudge the survivors in the right direction? Making sure they follow their destiny? Evidently, the Others do have some way to predict or see the future, since they built the landing strip for flight 316 to land on and Eloise has remarked that she is unsure what is going to happen "for the first time in a long time." I don't know. The whole behavior of the Others in the previous seasons just confuses me now, since they obviously knew that Oceanic 815's crash was more than just a random occurence.

Because they didn't know it was the same people at first and then what would they do once they finally made certain it was the same time travelers? "Oh hi you need to stay on this island for some time until this wheel is turned and you go back to 1977 to do the stuff you were meant to do. Have a nice day"

How would they not be sure? Richard, at least, obviously knew a plane was going to crash in 2004 since he met Jack and Co. in 1977. And they obviously do have some future-telling capacity, what with the runway and all. Unless it was 316 that was supposed to crash originally, and never 815 - maybe the Others were waiting for Ilana and her shadow people all along?

[sdm42393]

Holy crap... how did Juliet survive that fall, and all of that debris? And how did the bomb not explode when Jack dropped it but did when Juliet hit it with a rock a few times?

... Wait, it's LOST. Should I expect it to make coherent sense?

[Moon Rabbits]

I AM SO PISSED OFF THEY KILLED JULIET.

Her death was the best one in the show, though.

[Shadowdust]

Who knows if Juliet is truly dead. Who knows how this will play out. It simply comes down to the question of whether they were fulfilling their roles in the time line or if they were really variables that could bend time to their wills. The ending certainly didn't leave room for an answer. And if what they did worked, Jacob has nothing to worry about.

[Paro]

I believe the events on the island symbolically represent a game of chess between two sides: dark and light, black and white, evil and good. The game is played between two stances, who use their pieces to prove their stance. One side believes in the cooperative nature of humanity, while another believes in the destructive nature of humanity.

After tonight's episode, these two sides have been clearly illustrated...

On the Light side belongs Jacob as the leader, who uses his pieces and arranges them to prove his point: Humanity has a chance to avoid destruction, since everything before destruction "is progress".

Jacob's pieces include: Richard, Ilana, Bram and the other "shadow of the statue crew", and probably the majority of the Losties.

The leader on the Dark side is the unnamed guy at the beginning of the finale episode, in the black shirt, speaking to Jacob, in the white shirt; I would also go as far as to say this man is the Smoke Monster. He is the guardian of the underworld (of sorts), and does not seem capable of directly interfering with human affairs; instead, he manifests himself through various dead characters, and uses influence to change the course of events.

Dead character's he has manifested himself as: Christian, Alex and Locke DEFINITELY. (Perhaps Yemi). He has also, most recently, influenced Ben.

I feel this is definitely evidenced. At the beginning of the episode, the man in black told Jacob he would find a loophole and kill Jacob, who then responded by pretty much saying, "You know where to find me."

... Centuries later, the man in black animates himself as John Locke, which instills a sense of faith in Ben once again. Ben seeks judgment from the Smoke Monster. Once in the Cavern, Ben falls through the floor, and Locke leaves to find help. Coincidentally, the Smoke Monster appears, and judges Ben. Once the Monster disappears, he animates himself as Alex, who tells him to follow everything John Locke (the man in black/the Smoke Monster/Reanimated Alex) says. This obviously sets Ben up once again, when he is faced with the the choice to listen to Locke, or leave. Having been threatened by the Smoke Monster, and being what felt like betrayed by Jacob, Ben stabs him.

Although Ben is being used, I still contend he will turn out to be on the right side at the end of it all.

All these characters are pawns, rooks and bishops in a large game of chess being played on (and off) the island; this "game" is indicative of the ultimate nature of humankind, and the Valenzetti Equation is suggestive that the dark side wins so far. Inevitably, the good side will overcome the odds, and change the numbers before the end of the series.

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

uber pissed..so confused (and not in a good way), absolutely cant stand Kate now (I probably shouldnt have been surprised that she'd change her mind when she saw Jack)!

i dont know people wtf went down tonight...good season but something felt really "off" about the payoff that usually happens in Lost finale's!

[McLovin']

That's because this finale didn't answer much...We are still left at the end with "did this cause the Incident or not." and as well with who Illana's group is. This ending wasn't a gamechanger like Walt being taken, the Swan imploding, flashforwards, or the island moving. It was just a bomb going off and Jacob dieing...

If you noticed, Jacob explicitly touched each character in their flashbacks. Even for a casual viewer it was pretty apparent.

From a logical point of view (lol), Nemesis wanted to kill Jacob but couldn't do it himself so it needed someone who would do it for him. But not just anyone could waltz up to where Jacob resided and so Nemesis (who I would say is the smoke monster) used different characters to manipulate them to find the one person it needed that could do the job...John Locke. It made him look like the leader of the Others in order to finally be able to get to Jacob and use Ben to kill him.

The Jacob thing is cool and I believe he knew he would die. His behavior at the end only proved that he foresaw his death. Perhaps with his death he will pull an Obi-Wan and help our Losties somehow.

And the white flash at the end was a time flash in my opinion. The Losties fulfilled their purpose of creating the Incident and will teleport to 2007 and the story will continue about stopping Nemesis.

[Moon Rabbits]

I believe the events on the island symbolically represent a game of chess between two sides: dark and light, black and white, evil and good. The game is played between two stances, who use their pieces to prove their stance. One side believes in the cooperative nature of humanity, while another believes in the destructive nature of humanity.

[...]

All these characters are pawns, rooks and bishops in a large game of chess being played on (and off) the island; this "game" is indicative of the ultimate nature of humankind, and the Valenzetti Equation is suggestive that the dark side wins so far. Inevitably, the good side will overcome the odds, and change the numbers before the end of the series.

Yeah, Jacob believes in the "goodness" of humanity, the other guy doesn't. He even mentions something about that when they're watching the Black Rock come toward the Island (which, it is apparent, Richard (Ricardos?) was an inhabitant of). I'd also say that the other guy is the smoke monster.

>D This episode made my theorizing about Jacob vs. Esau even more plausible.


That's because this finale didn't answer much...We are still left at the end with "did this cause the Incident or not." and as well with who Illana's group is. This ending wasn't a gamechanger like Walt being taken, the Swan imploding, flashforwards, or the island moving. It was just a bomb going off and Jacob dieing...

If you noticed, Jacob explicitly touched each character in their flashbacks. Even for a casual viewer it was pretty apparent.

[...]

And the white flash at the end was a time flash in my opinion. The Losties fulfilled their purpose of creating the Incident and will teleport to 2007 and the story will continue about stopping Nemesis.

Yeah, except Jacob didn't appear to Juliet. I knew right then she was going to die. If the whiteness WAS a flashforward, I'll be pissed, because that means Juliet is going to be dead even though EVERYONE else in that blast radius would be smurfed but miraculously alive anyway.


OH, and "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" is "He who will save us all."

[Psychotic]

Sawyer kicking Jack in the groin will never, ever, be topped.

Also I like that this show went right into answering the "Who is Jacob?" question by showing him buying a New Kids on the Block lunchbox.

[Kirobaito]

Man, Mullet, your wife was pretty close to being right on Jacob. It just wasn't Jacob she was talking about.

[Psychotic]

Okay, callin' it: Juliet was pregnant, and her involvement with the Incident is why women can't have babies, which, given that's the reason she was on the island in the first place, is incredibly ironic.

[McLovin']

Or the Incident released a small amount of radiation that disallowed pregnancies :p

[Moon Rabbits]

Or the Incident released a small amount of radiation that disallowed pregnancies :p

Yeah, I'm thinking that the radiation is responsible for all that sort of stuff. Since, obviously, Dharma could have behbehs (Ethan) and it wasn't miraculous. I also think it is the cause of Danielle's crew getting "sick" - perhaps they got radiation poisoning!!

I'm still really pissed Juliet had to be the one to do it though. Really, I would have been much more satisfied with Kate being the one who dies. I mean, seriously! The producers have been hinting at Sawyer and Kate getting back together next season, and if that happens, I'll be even more upset that Juliet died like this. I mean, there's really nothing they can do with Sawyer's character that won't anger me anymore >( If he goes back to Kate, that totally makes Juliet's death meaningless. If he doesn't go back to Kate, his character is useless in the drama of the show and he might as well be killed off. :( They should have killed both Juliet AND Sawyer.

Though, I'm still holding on to the hope that the giant "shocker" death of the finale was in fact NOT Juliet's - it could've been Jacob. Or, for all we know, Sayid is dead!

[Psychotic]

Uhhhhh wasn't the shocker death supposed to be, y'know, Locke? Or did I miss something? :confused:

Also pah, radiation! You guys need to think of more imaginative reasons behind everything. Maybe Richard is a bunch of different guys who all get plastic surgery, and the title and face is passed down from Richard to Richard.

EDIT: Sucks to be Locke, though. Spends his entire life being manipulated, comes to the island believing he is special and has a destiny, but pow! He gets used yet again by whoever the fuck that dude was at the start. Also, it was fake Locke who told Richard to tell the real Locke he needed to die. Damn son, that is cold.

[Del Murder]

The theories posted here sound pretty good!

This episode wasn't that great as a finale. It felt like a lot of buildup and then didn't really pay off in the end. Who cares if some new character gets introduced and then stabbed, even if he is central to the storyline.

[Flying Mullet]

Jacob looks like one of my college buddies. xD

I imagine, through island magic, that the 70s Losties will wake up in present time, having fulfilled their part to create the incident and whatnot. Juliet will be injured, so the first couple of episodes will be "cliffhangers" as to whether or not Jack can save her. There will probably be some drama between the Jack x Juliet x Kate x Sawyer clusterfuck they have going on with hurt feelings, etc... (nobody gives a rat's ass about this anymore, why do they keep it going?) Eventually Juliet will live or die and they'll all end up with the current group of survivors and Sun will be reunited with Jin. Then there will be this big good versus evil battle with Jacob's people versus the other guy(Esau?) and in the end we'll get all of the answers to the big questions.

Anyways, that's my theory of the season 6 synopsis in a nutshell.

[Craig]

random thought: locke was never as special as he thought he was, and neither is the title of leader among the others. charles and ben never seemed special or revered when they were leading so i doubt locke would be either. heck, for all we know he wasnt even meant to be leader.

think of it this way, why did richard take an interest in locke in the first place? cos he appeared in the past saying "jacob says im your leader" but didnt john get most of his instructions from christian? christian at this point is clearly another manifestation of jacob's enemy so locke has been used and probably isnt special at all

[Moon Rabbits]

random thought: locke was never as special as he thought he was, and neither is the title of leader among the others. charles and ben never seemed special or revered when they were leading so i doubt locke would be either. heck, for all we know he wasnt even meant to be leader.

think of it this way, why did richard take an interest in locke in the first place? cos he appeared in the past saying "jacob says im your leader" but didnt john get most of his instructions from christian? christian at this point is clearly another manifestation of jacob's enemy so locke has been used and probably isnt special at all

No - Widmore and Eloise both were respected and obeyed by the Others. Widmore had the ability to order them around (instructing Ben to kill Danielle, for instance) and Richard said he was "protecting our leader" when he knocked Eloise out before she entered the basement of the Dharmaville house.

I agree with what you said about Locke, though. His life totally sucks (sucked?).

[sdm42393]

Am I the only one who thinks Jack's motivation for nuking the island is a bit unrealistic. Seriously, nuking an island to get together with some horny bitch? Am I missing something here?

I assumed it would be more along the lines of, "Blah blah blah suffering for three+ years blah blah it's the right thing to do blah blah destiny blah blah."

[Moon Rabbits]

Am I the only one who thinks Jack's motivation for nuking the island is a bit unrealistic. Seriously, nuking an island to get together with some horny bitch? Am I missing something here?

I assumed it would be more along the lines of, "Blah blah blah suffering for three+ years blah blah it's the right thing to do blah blah destiny blah blah."

Isn't that his motivation? To prevent the past 3 years from having happened?? I mean, if it worked, he and Kate would never know eachother and Kate would be going to jail.

[Del Murder]

Jack is an idiot. Why does he love Kate so much and want to do all this stuff to be with her? She's not worth all this.

[Kirobaito]

Everyone except Sawyer is ass-crazy. I was screaming at my TV, "WHY?" There's no reason to blow up a freaking bomb. Sigh.

[Craig]

random thought: locke was never as special as he thought he was, and neither is the title of leader among the others. charles and ben never seemed special or revered when they were leading so i doubt locke would be either. heck, for all we know he wasnt even meant to be leader.

think of it this way, why did richard take an interest in locke in the first place? cos he appeared in the past saying "jacob says im your leader" but didnt john get most of his instructions from christian? christian at this point is clearly another manifestation of jacob's enemy so locke has been used and probably isnt special at all

No - Widmore and Eloise both were respected and obeyed by the Others. Widmore had the ability to order them around (instructing Ben to kill Danielle, for instance) and Richard said he was "protecting our leader" when he knocked Eloise out before she entered the basement of the Dharmaville house.

I agree with what you said about Locke, though. His life totally sucks (sucked?).

charles was definately respected as a leader. i think what i was trying to say was that nothing was actually special about any of the leaders. by that i mean they werent picked for any mystical reason and it wasnt destiny or anything, but then locke came along and everything pointed to him being some sort of chosen one but in the end it was all just a plan by some guy and everything locke believed about the island, and died for was a complete lie.

[Psychotic]

Everyone except Sawyer is ass-crazy. I was screaming at my TV, "WHY?" There's no reason to blow up a freaking bomb. Sigh.And Miles. Fucking loved it when he was like "Uh, guys, how do you know this bomb won't cause the incident? Did any of you even bother to think this through?"

[scrumpleberry]

what will fill this void :sad:

[Kirobaito]

Everyone except Sawyer is ass-crazy. I was screaming at my TV, "WHY?" There's no reason to blow up a freaking bomb. Sigh.And Miles. smurfing loved it when he was like "Uh, guys, how do you know this bomb won't cause the incident? Did any of you even bother to think this through?"
Oh, right, Miles, too. But Miles doesn't seem to have any say, so what he thinks isn't really applicable to the plot. :p

[Paro]

Geez, I can't wait like 9 months for the final season!

[Moon Rabbits]

Everyone except Sawyer is ass-crazy. I was screaming at my TV, "WHY?" There's no reason to blow up a freaking bomb. Sigh.And Miles. smurfing loved it when he was like "Uh, guys, how do you know this bomb won't cause the incident? Did any of you even bother to think this through?"
Oh, right, Miles, too. But Miles doesn't seem to have any say, so what he thinks isn't really applicable to the plot. :p

Yeah, I'm really quite upset that characters like Lapidus and Miles are still alive while characters like Juliet, Sayid, and Daniel had to bite it this season. I mean, I understand Miles' psychic abilities are probably going to play into next season's story lines ... but Lapidus? Who cares about him? Why is he still here?

Same with Jin and Sun. They add nothing whatsoever to the show anymore. Sun had a really cool story arc being built up for her at the beginning of the season (revenge on Ben / Jack, conspiring with Widmore, taking over Mr. Paik's business), but half way through she just became UTTERLY useless. All she did for the last half of season 5 was run up to people and say "Have you seen my husband?"

And oh my god! Bernard and Rose <3333333333 I loved them in the finale. "We're retired." Classic. I think we've seem the last of them ... I think it would be safe to assume that they are indeed Adam and Eve. Though, I wonder why they had the black and white rocks.

[charliepanayi]

And Miles. smurfing loved it when he was like "Uh, guys, how do you know this bomb won't cause the incident? Did any of you even bother to think this through?"

That was brilliant, his quiet sarcasm there was hilarious.

[Psychotic]

I doubt Sayid's dead just yet. I think it's the same situation with Jin at the end of last season.

[Flying Mullet]

So where did Jack learn to shoot like a badass? It's not easy to run around firing a gun at shoulder height and hit people, all while trying to keep your balance.

[scrumpleberry]

Hahahahaahha I loved his shooting things face.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k274/scrumpleberry/jackshootingface.jpg

AMAZING :heart:

[Moon Rabbits]

So where did Jack learn to shoot like a badass? It's not easy to run around firing a gun at shoulder height and hit people, all while trying to keep your balance.

They have been getting shot at / shooting people for about 4 years, but yeah, it is impressive ;)

[Del Murder]

Jack was only on the island for a few months.

[Kirobaito]

So where did Jack learn to shoot like a badass? It's not easy to run around firing a gun at shoulder height and hit people, all while trying to keep your balance.
In that case, why does everyone know how to knock people temporarily unconscious by hitting them on the head? We never see someone get hit on the head and NOT fall unconscious. Or see someone's skull get cracked and their brain mushed.

[Del Murder]

Yeah and how does a sentient being made of smoke manifest itself as other people.

[McLovin']

These are where the true mysteries lie. ;)

[Miriel]

You know the saying, "you can't polish a turd"? NOT TRUE.

Lost is smurfing ridiculous. I mean god damn, this show is just out of control stupid. But dammit, they can take the most nonsensical plot and sell the hell out of it. It's like, week after week, they give you this exciting, dramatic, beautiful hour of television, but when you're done, you're not even really sure wtf happened. It's when I start thinking too much about theories and explanations and :bou::bou::bou::bou: that I start getting enraged cause it's so obvious they're just pulling stuff outta their ass.

The whole "we're gonna change our own future, even though we established that you can't change the past!" was dumb as hell, but daaaamn. Sawyer and Juliet totally upped their game in the finale. Their performances were CRAZY good. Seriously. That's the kind of :bou::bou::bou::bou: you stand up and applaud. They took a really unbelievable chemistry-less relationship and towards the end, managed to take it beyond believable to "omfg, don't separate them!" land. Mad props.

I don't even give a fuck what kind of explanation they try and concoct for Jacob and his black-shirt/Locke 2.0 buddy. Don't care. Don't wanna think about it. Whateverrrr.


Also, Miles is really amazing. Love that guy.

[scrumpleberry]

hahahaahahahahahahahaha miri xDDD

I would love to believe that they've known exactly what they were doing from season 4. I still think it might be true!

[Flying Mullet]

Locke 2.0
I like this. :)

[Del Murder]

Mythbusters busted the myth that you can't polish a turd. They polished that crap up good!

[Croyles]

I believe the events on the island symbolically represent a game of chess between two sides: dark and light, black and white, evil and good. The game is played between two stances, who use their pieces to prove their stance. One side believes in the cooperative nature of humanity, while another believes in the destructive nature of humanity.

After tonight's episode, these two sides have been clearly illustrated...

On the Light side belongs Jacob as the leader, who uses his pieces and arranges them to prove his point: Humanity has a chance to avoid destruction, since everything before destruction "is progress".

Jacob's pieces include: Richard, Ilana, Bram and the other "shadow of the statue crew", and probably the majority of the Losties.

The leader on the Dark side is the unnamed guy at the beginning of the finale episode, in the black shirt, speaking to Jacob, in the white shirt; I would also go as far as to say this man is the Smoke Monster. He is the guardian of the underworld (of sorts), and does not seem capable of directly interfering with human affairs; instead, he manifests himself through various dead characters, and uses influence to change the course of events.

Dead character's he has manifested himself as: Christian, Alex and Locke DEFINITELY. (Perhaps Yemi). He has also, most recently, influenced Ben.

I feel this is definitely evidenced. At the beginning of the episode, the man in black told Jacob he would find a loophole and kill Jacob, who then responded by pretty much saying, "You know where to find me."

... Centuries later, the man in black animates himself as John Locke, which instills a sense of faith in Ben once again. Ben seeks judgment from the Smoke Monster. Once in the Cavern, Ben falls through the floor, and Locke leaves to find help. Coincidentally, the Smoke Monster appears, and judges Ben. Once the Monster disappears, he animates himself as Alex, who tells him to follow everything John Locke (the man in black/the Smoke Monster/Reanimated Alex) says. This obviously sets Ben up once again, when he is faced with the the choice to listen to Locke, or leave. Having been threatened by the Smoke Monster, and being what felt like betrayed by Jacob, Ben stabs him.

Although Ben is being used, I still contend he will turn out to be on the right side at the end of it all.

All these characters are pawns, rooks and bishops in a large game of chess being played on (and off) the island; this "game" is indicative of the ultimate nature of humankind, and the Valenzetti Equation is suggestive that the dark side wins so far. Inevitably, the good side will overcome the odds, and change the numbers before the end of the series.

I completely agree with this. :)

I thouroughly enjoyed this finale actually. Things ARE starting to come together in my opinion. And I really dont believe they've just been making it up as they go along. Maybe this isnt the best comparison, but Rowling showed with Harry Potter (yeah yeah) that you can have a whole story arc planned out over 7 books (which only seemed to tie up in the last 3 books) so why not for 6 seasons of a television show (where it also seems to have started coming together in the 3rd last season).

However, time travel has and will never work as a good plot device, and im glad its (apparently) over with.

I guess im in the minority for enjoying season 4 + 5 more than the other seasons?

Nemesis + Jacob = Cain and Abel????

Or Esau, whatever..

Also: the statue of Tawaret (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taweret)

[Serapy]

There were actually three Lockes in one particular timeline, that's all I can say for now.