Sephiroth (Possible SPOILERS, Sorry)

[Unus Volatilis Angelus]

It has been argued over time and again, but by standards in our pitiful definitions, Sephiroth does become a 'god'. Now I have multipule reasons for this conclusion, but I do want other opinions as to whether you people believe he does or doesn't.
What are your beliefs in Sephiroth?
Over all, you can include proof from Advent Children, and other Final Fantasy VII games that do not include the main storyline.

I do suppose I should make a poll later in this.:cool:

[PuPu]

I doubt he is immortal, so we can't call him a god in that sense. I think Sephiroth tried to become a god by trying to absorb all of the planet's Lifestream in FF7. I think he successfully managed to absorb at least 1/2 of it (the other 1/2 was controlled by Aeris/Aerith I think), and would have succeeded to absorb all of if Meteor had hit. But since he failed, I don't think he is a god.

[Bahamut2000X]

It can be argued either way. Since there is no god or even godlike figure in the real world for us to actually attribute qualities to, and hence a true definition to what a god would be.

So in short, arguing that is stupid and pointless as everyone is wrong and right at the same time due to lack of a proper definition.

[The Turk]

He said he was trying to be a god, but he fails. He's powerful no doubt, but nothing like a god. I'd like to know why you think he is, so that I could argue this point better, but nope he isn't one.

[nirojan]

hmm...well as you can understand this is a sensitive topic talking about "god"
Bahamut u said there is no god in our world to compare it too. Well different religions and even aethiest(people who dont believe in god) see god in different ways!

But for the topic: as an entity or otherwise i dont think sephiroth achieved the level he intended to!

[The Man]

By my definition a god would be incapable of losing a fight. As far as I remember (and it's been a long time since I played FFVII) Sephiroth loses every fight he participates in against Cloud. Therefore he is not a god; he's just a self-absorbed whiner with an Oedipus complex.

[champagne supernova]

Therefore he is not a god; he's just a self-absorbed whiner with an Oedipus complex.

That's defamatory. He doesn't want to sleep with his mummy! He's just got abandonment issues. His mummy wasn't there. Doctor Gast left him. He lived a sad sad life.

[Bahamut2000X]

Bahamut u said there is no god in our world to compare it too. Well different religions and even aethiest(people who dont believe in god) see god in different ways!

Which is true. In the history of mankind there has never been a god or godlike figure to spontaneously appear and walk around, we can't actually even attribute what a god trulu is. Hence this argument is rather pointless, because it's an argument about something that can't be entirely defined.

Sure every religion has their own views as to what a god is, and yet their all wrong because there is nothing tangible with which to attribute their beliefs too, but they could be right because you can't disprove those ideas either.

So as I said the entire argument is moot because everyone is wrong and right at the same time because it's an argument of a fictitious existence that no one knows anything about. It would be like arguing what a Ditrichromasaurus looks like and what qualifies as such despite the fact that it never existed (I made the name up if you couldn't tell).

Also your last bit about even Athiests see god in a different way is wrong. I myself am an Athiest and I don't see god in another way because I don't see god period.

Well that's enough early morning philosophizing for one day.

[Wolf Kanno]

Well, if we are basing this on the Western concepts of god (Judeo-Christian, Classical Greek, Norse Mythology etc...) No, he did not, but to be fair, no villain really achieves god-hood in the FF series since all of them were eventually defeated by the very mortal heroes.

Exdeath is probably the only one who was the closest to being a god-like being for the sole fact that he does pretty much destroy all existence with the Void (including himself) and its only with the intervention of the Crystals that the world is made right. The Cloud of Darkness also falls into this category but I feel Its existence is different as the CoD is more like a "force of nature" that only truly acts when certain conditions are met. The CoD is not destroyed cause it really can't be destroyed yet its power is not infinite as the crystals have the power to hold it back.

In the end, Sephiroth is like Kefka or Ultemacia. He transcends his normal existence becoming something more than human but lacks the fundamental qualities that theologians and philosophers would attribute to a god-like being.

Oddly enough, the traditional Crystals are the closest thing to a god to exist in the FF mythos, though they are based more on an eastern concept of god.

[The Man]

Therefore he is not a god; he's just a self-absorbed whiner with an Oedipus complex.

That's defamatory. He doesn't want to sleep with his mummy!So he says. :shifty:

Kefka came much closer to being a god than Sephiroth did, since Kefka at least absorbed all sources of magical power or some such.

[Forsaken Lover]

There is only one God.
And his name is Pein.

[Darkswordofchaos]

sephiroth was powerful but i think that was him just using his natrual ability and manuplulating the jenova cells within him. he was going to become a god by obsorbing the entire lifestream thats why he sumoned metor so the planet would gather all the mako in one place, then he was going to use the empty shell of the planet to sail the cosmos like jenova before him repeating the process with all life bearing planets he came across

[Super Sepiroth]

Well according to my RE Class (about 3 or 4 years ago now) I had a brilliant teacher called Mr Travis, and he said a God has to be all these 3 things

Omnecient - Can do anything
Omnipotent - Knows everything
Omnipresent - Is everywhere

Sephiroth can not be a God because

a) If he were a God he could not be defeated because if he can do anything he could kill Cloud with not much effort, and if he knows everything, he'll know Cloud's moves and stop them happening.

b) He can't be everywhere because he has a physical body and presence. We can all see him.

I could go on for more reasons, but i hope i've given you some food for thought

SS Out

[Bahamut2000X]

All the Norse gods ended up dying. And they were gods. Numerous other Mythologies talk about gods being killed. In fact most other gods from mythologies aren't omniscient and still called gods.

[QUOTE]b) He can't be everywhere because he has a physical body and presence. We can all see him.

Jesus was a god and he had a physical being. In fact most deities from mythology have physical forms and are gods. Physical bodies and seeing them has nothing to do with it.


Well according to my RE Class (about 3 or 4 years ago now) I had a brilliant teacher called Mr Travis, and he said a God has to be all these 3 things

Omnecient - Can do anything
Omnipotent - Knows everything
Omnipresent - Is everywhere

Simply sounds like the Judeo-Christian god to me and nothing more.

Which immediately makes it a false statement for the simple reason that I have stated previously in this thread, that basing an argument on a fictitious unknown existence which can not be observed, measured, or explained and claiming these traits, of something that's never been known to exist, are in fact the true traits that define it is ludicrous.

Also as a point of note, I too had a Philosophy teacher a while back who said (technically it was some Philosopher in the church whose name I forget, but the teacher was adamant on saying it was correct despite it's horrible flaw in logic) that a god would be a perfect being, and the traits of a perfect being would be all knowing, all loving, all powerful, and they would have to exists because a perfect being would be imperfect if they didn't exist.

[Super Sepiroth]

Ah mixing philosophy with videogames now? This thread just got interesting lol. As you are Bahamut, i'm an athiest, I was just bringing a point that he couldn't be a God lol.

But to bring your point about the Philosopher you knew, If God is all loving, why are children, who have done nothing wrong in their lives, dying of starvation through poverty etc lol. Lets see the God Squad (not intended as an insult, just to point out) get round that.

[Darkswordofchaos]

If God is all loving, why are children, who have done nothing wrong in their lives, dying of starvation through poverty etc lol. Lets see the God Squad (not intended as an insult, just to point out) get round that.


Because after we killed his son he decided he wasent going to interfere with humans any more.

But this thread seems to bee moving away from sephiroth and more to god lol.

sephiroth did do a lot of smiting though sort of god like

[The Turk]

Actually Sephiroth pretty much failed to kill everybody he tried. He attacked Cloud, Zack, Tifa, Tseng, Shinra and Aeris and only 2 of them died....

He's a pretty crap swordsman.

[Darkswordofchaos]

Actually Sephiroth pretty much failed to kill everybody he tried. He attacked Cloud, Zack, Tifa, Tseng, Shinra and Aeris and only 2 of them died....

He's a pretty crap swordsman.

I know he killed prez Shinra and Aeris but i thought he also killed zack dosent that make 3 dead??

Also maby the reason is deep deep down sephiroth is really a pretty good guy!

[The Turk]

Could be the reason. Or perhaps his girly long hair gets in his eyes and blinds him?

Sephiroth doesn't kill Zack, he wounds him however.

In VII Zack is gunned down by three shinra soldiers. For some reason they don't shoot Cloud. Either because they thought he was as good as dead or that bullets are expensive. In the anime movie (the name of which escapes me) he is shot with a sniper rifle. Lastly in Crisis Core he fights a lot of soldiers but eventually the numbers are too much for him. Wuss.

[Unstoppable Pig]

Actually Sephiroth pretty much failed to kill everybody he tried. He attacked Cloud, Zack, Tifa, Tseng, Shinra and Aeris and only 2 of them died....

He's a pretty crap swordsman.

Sephiroth spend more time maintaing his cool look rather than improving his swordsman skills.

[Darkswordofchaos]

Could be the reason. Or perhaps his girly long hair gets in his eyes and blinds him?

Sephiroth doesn't kill Zack, he wounds him however.

In VII Zack is gunned down by three shinra soldiers. For some reason they don't shoot Cloud. Either because they thought he was as good as dead or that bullets are expensive. In the anime movie (the name of which escapes me) he is shot with a sniper rifle. Lastly in Crisis Core he fights a lot of soldiers but eventually the numbers are too much for him. Wuss.
of Yeah i cant belive i forgot that the ride in the yellow truck im a D/A lol cloud could totally take on a millon soldiers

[solidsnake420]

sephiroth i dont think he became a god like figure but more of a masia a powerful figure who in the game seems to come bake from the dead and take his revange on shinra from vary early in the og ff7 game thay talk ABOUT HIM BEING THE BEST SOLDIRE EVER but he some how was K I A right then comes back kills the presadent of shinra and almost becomes this anticrist figure in the story who is going to destroy the world but thats just me :cool:

[DarkBahamut]

Jesus was a god and he had a physical being.



Jesus was not a god, but he was a physical being. (Btw, what religion are you to believe that?) There is only ONE god which cannot been seen.

[Skyblade]

Since when has supreme powers been enough to have one obtain godhood? Man, standards are slipping everywhere. In my day, any god that couldn't do the whole "created the heavens and the earth" thing wouldn't even be noticed. I bet it's that stupid Prometheus's fault. He gives mankind the secret of Fire (Prometheus really brought a mastered Fire Materia down from Olympus), and the next thing you know, the mortals down there are figuring out how all Materia works, and they start throwing lightning bolts around and thinking they're "gods" just 'cause they can kill all their neighbors.

Seriously, you're not a god just because you're more powerful than everyone around you. Or even if you're more powerful than everyone else on the planet. Put together. Being a god requires far more than just power.

[Jiro]

Kefka is the only one to achieve god-hood. Sephiroth may have achieved this if his plan succeeded, but Cloud and Co. defeated him before he had a chance.

Let's not have this thread derail into a religious debate, because nobody can prove anyone right or wrong.

Sephiroth cannot be compared to God, as Sephiroth clearly has evil intentions.

[solidsnake420]

and for that reson i say that for the story line the game makers pantid him as this anticrist figure almost an enbodyment of evil but like jesus also he comes back to life but really he was never dead

[blackmage_nuke]

Well the song is "One Winged Angel" so i would say he had not reached complete god status yet. However the song in the battle before it was "Birth of a God" so maybe he was in the process then got stopped.

[solidsnake420]

but calling him a god or his way to being a god is hard to swallow if he was to be considered a god thats like saying he has the power to create life and destroy it at his will to me if u are calling him a god thats like saying he has the power to creat the universe and destroy it so for that reson i say no sephiroth didnt become a god but people say that he did as a way to discribe is incredible power thats unconparable to anything else so the only thing left is god but if u are talking about some one evil i dont think u can call him a god but more of a demonic entity :cool:

[The Man]

Not all mythological gods have the power to create or destroy the universe/life. That said, Sephiroth doesn't have anywhere near the power that most of them do. He might qualify as a demigod at best.

[Moon Rabbits]

Therefore he is not a god; he's just a self-absorbed whiner with an Oedipus complex.

Sephiroth = Hamlet?

[DarkBahamut]

Could be the reason. Or perhaps his girly long hair gets in his eyes and blinds him?

Sephiroth doesn't kill Zack, he wounds him however.

In VII Zack is gunned down by three shinra soldiers. For some reason they don't shoot Cloud. Either because they thought he was as good as dead or that bullets are expensive. In the anime movie (the name of which escapes me) he is shot with a sniper rifle. Lastly in Crisis Core he fights a lot of soldiers but eventually the numbers are too much for him. Wuss.

The anime was called Last Order. YouTube - Final Fantasy Last Order part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbB5M9Bzjf8&feature=related)
(It just has the scene where Zack dies and the movie credits.)

I thought Sephiroth killed Tseng too?

[Mirage]

Tseng lived.

Also, Jesus was only God's son in Christianity. In Islam, he's just another prophet. And more people believe in Islam than Christianity!

[solidsnake420]

true

[Quindiana Jones]

It's only a matter of time before Christianity and Islam, along with the other less similar faiths, become the myths and we invent another religion to take their place.

My definition of a god would be simply that a god is an extremely powerful being. Emphasis on "being" rather than "human". After one transcends his human nature, one could be considered a god by me. This includes people like the Buddha, other enlightened fellows, Jesus etc. Now, these guys were all nicey nicey and everything, so maybe I should consider that in my definition of a god. But I don't because that's a crap idea. You know who isn't nicey nicey? God. Who else? Pretty much all the other gods we've invented. Seriously, how masochistic is the human race?

Anyway. Sephiroth became godlike. Just because a human could beat him up, or just because some people survived meeting him does not take anything away from the fact that he did become more than what he was as a human.

For me, there is no God and there are no gods, there are merely godlike beings. Rather than constantly refer to these beings as godlike beings, it is simpler to call them gods.

[The Man]

Tseng lived.

Also, Jesus was only God's son in Christianity. In Islam, he's just another prophet. And more people believe in Islam than Christianity!

Has Islam already surpassed Christianity in number of believers? damn, I thought it still had a fair amount of time to catch up.

Also Sephiroth is nowhere near as cool as Hamlet.

[The Turk]

See I like to pretend that AC was just a fan fiction and not cannon so in my world Tseng does die.

The confusion came from a mistranslation. On the PS Elena accusing Cloud of "doing in my bis" but in the Japanese version it is said he lived. It's corrected again on the PC version where Elena says "you messed up my boss".

I think the story works out better with Tseng dead as it makes his final meeting with Cloud's group and his scene where he offers to take Elena out for dinner more poignant and sad. Plus it gives Sephiroth an extra frag.

[Rase]

Also, Jesus was only God's son in Christianity. In Islam, he's just another prophet. And more people believe in Islam than Christianity!
There really aren't definitive numbers for this, as there are likely a large number of people who claim Christianity/Islam yet would not be called practitioners of the respective faith, and some who are not accounted for in reports due to being in countries that may be difficult to reach for those trying to tabulate the numbers. Most estimates I've read place Christianity at approximately 600 million more followers than Islam though.

Anyhoo, I don't think that Sephiroth achieved godhood, at least not according to my definition or the definitions of most of the religions I know of. I would probably agree that he had reached around to demigod status maybe, such as Theseus or Perseus of Greek lore.

[DarkBahamut]

Well we know he wanted to be a god cuz I took a pic.

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2690/240/105/580790157/n580790157_6333498_247668.jpg
http://photos-b.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v2690/240/105/580790157/n580790157_6333705_558471.jpg

[champagne supernova]

Um, technically Sephiroth doesn't kill Aeris or Shinra, because he was chilling at the North Pole and he got his mummy to do it for him. But he did kill Tifa's father, so he has one at least.

Sephiroth would have most likely have become godlike if his plan had succeeded and he had absorbed the Lifestream of the entire planet. But the fact that his plan did not work out means that he was not. Remember, most of the power he gained at the end of VII was due to the knowledge he gained in the Lifestream, and his ability to call upon the Planet to do his bidding. But as far as I understand, that is channelling something more powerful through him, and therefore it does not make him a God (kind of how some of the disciples were able to channel God's power to heal individuals).

Of course, the Planet itself could be considered a God, because it is very powerful and is self-aware. However, the self-awareness could be due to the presence of the Ancients that are in it, who are still self-aware.

[The Crystal]

Sephiroth is a demi-god. So is Kefka.


Um, technically Sephiroth doesn't kill Aeris or Shinra, because he was chilling at the North Pole and he got his mummy to do it for him. But he did kill Tifa's father, so he has one at least.

He was using Jenova's brain-dead body as a host for his consciousness. So technically, he killed Aerith.