Street Fighter IV

[Depression Moon]

Because the other thread was old. The game is supposed to be hitting out next month on my birthday, but I doubt I'll be getting it as a gift. This would definitely be one of the first games I would buy if I had a PS3. I haven't played a Street Fighter game in so long, the last thing I played that was mildly related to it was Capcom vs Marvel. My favorite back in the day was Chun Li and I think with this one it wouldn't change. I'm also looking forward to play Crimson Viper and Sakura as well. I just seem to have a fascination with the women in SF.

I think Chun Li has one of the coolest intros in the game. Here are a couple of videos here in case you haven't seen any gameplay footage. Dailymotion - Street Fighter IV - Gameplay Vega Vs Chun Li Capcom, a video from Player4everFR. Street, Fighter, IV, -, Capcom (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6marl_street-fighter-iv-gameplay-vega-vs_videogames)
Street Fighter 4 Dan Sakura Video Gameplay Trailer from GameVideos (http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/23245)

[Goldenboko]

A game like this just brings memories of Street Fighter 2 which shall forevermore be better then all other street fighters.


EDIT: By the way, Chun-Li or GTFO.

[Rocket Edge]

Question: Would you say I'd like this game due to the fact I like Tekken? Also, I've never played these games much at all before, so I really don't know much about the series.

[Depression Moon]

I play Tekken too. You've never played SFII before? i can't believe that I thought everyone did. I would say you would probably like it. The combat's more simple than Tekken and faster in pace. You might also like it if you liked Smash Bros.

[JKTrix]

Tekken is also a 3D fighter where Street Fighter is 2D. This '3D vs 2D' thing is just in how the fighting itself takes place. There is no side-stepping in Street Fighter like you can in Tekken, no different grabs from the side or the back or all that. You'd simply have to give it a try to decide whether or not you like the style.

I don't think I'd put too much weight on the Smash Brothers comparison, other than the fact that Smash Bros is also technically a 2D game.

Street Fighter IV is definitely aiming to get the more casual players back in, since SF3 (which I adore) was pretty darn hardcore. SF4 is much closer to SF2, while still keeping some of the additional depth. I haven't played it myself yet, and I don't know if I'll be able to judge it from a 'casual' POV, but it's been making some positive waves.

As for me, I've pre-ordered both versions and just sent out my beautiful Virtua Stick High Grade (http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-zl-49-en-70-1rjw.html) to get modified to work on both the 360 and PS3.

[Lionx]

At first i was like...meh and looked forward to KoFXII and SF:HD along with all the other fighting games that are making a resurgence lately, but as i watched the matches and the trailers...i cannot be more excited.

YouTube - Street Fighter 4 PV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI1_IfDuWWk)

Getting this for PC, this is definitely to me a fusion of just about every mechanic of Street Fighter there is. With World Warriors, 4 bosses, some New Challengers, Alpha characters, and other new ones for SFIV.

The mechanics too

-Building meter like Super Turbo, no more whiffing for meter.
-Focus Attack/Dash to balance out Parries and keep Zoning a part of the game like ST.
-EX moves from SF3
-Supers/Ultras kinda like more than one super of Alpha.

Getting a Xbox360 EX2 Fighting Stick to use on PC just for this game. I am excited much and am already ready to pick up Gen again(heard he doesnt have his chains anymore) and at the arcade, ready to crouch hard punch and cancel to Abel's Ultra. Get HYPE! :)

EDIT: I wouldnt know how to compare it to more casual play in general as well, i am guessing everyone should enjoy this game from any school of Street Fighter, but...i do know that you can do a diagonal down forward twice and pull out a Dragon Punch and alot of mention of how lenient and easy it is to do the moves in SFIV compared to even Capcom vs SNK 2...and that game to me is very easy to do moves as it is...i gotta see this for myself sometime.

[JKTrix]

YouTube - Street Fighter 4 PV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI1_IfDuWWk)

Same trailer in English and HD
Gametrailers.com - Street Fighter IV - Exclusive Story Trailer HD (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/44551.html)

EX2 fighting stick is not recommended if you have options/can afford a different one. Sticks for both the PS3 and 360 will work on PS3s, since they are all USB. Unfortunately the Virtua Stick High Grade, the best stick (bias total), is out of print and when it came out it was cheaper than the 'Hori Real Arcade Pro' sticks.

There are going to be a set of SF4 themed sticks when the game comes out, the by-all-accounts amazing Fight Stick Tournament Edition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSasAr_Dxmk&fmt=18) stick and the smaller, cheaper Fight Stick. Tournament Edition is the way to go for full-on Japanese Arcade Quality stuff, though naturally it's quite a bit more expensive. The cheaper one is $80 and uses stock MadCatz parts (in which case the EX2 may be better), but the Tournament Edition is a chunky $150 (and currently pre-sold out, but they're making more). Which may seem like a lot if you're not into it that much.

But if you really don't care and just want to fight, whatever stick you use probably wouldn't bother you much :P I have a small collection myself.

[Rase]

I'll probably rent this for a week or two of fun from Gamefly and then away it goes. I like Street Fighter games and characters, but I'm not amazing at them and tend to get bored after a little while if I own them.

[Lionx]

I dunno lol i just know that i played using Hori's before and i never been disappointed, i will shop around though of course i am pretty sensitive to sticks.

Rase: Find an arcade or play online, as you lose practice practice practice...thats where the fun is lol, or get friends into.

EDIT: That english voice i am so not into...too used to the Japanese ones and the english actors dont take the job seriously enough :( I admit though it could have been worse, and at least its funny.

[Necronopticous]

After 3rd Strike, this game is a tasteless joke.

[Dreddz]

I'm pretty disappointed that Capcom has completely shunned its work with 3rd Strike just to take the series a step back and make the game resemble Street Fighter II. Don't get me wrong, Street Fighter II is great and I'm still excited for Street Fighter IV but if only Capcom could have been more ambitious.

[Lionx]

My opinion: Third Strike is hot garbage. Very little to no one cared about it until the Daigo video anyway.

This guy really shows what i feel about it:

Shoryuken - View Single Post - Parrying: Good or Bad? (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2652485&postcount=91)

Shoryuken - View Single Post - Parrying: Good or Bad? (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2653041&postcount=97)

Shoryuken - View Single Post - Parrying: Good or Bad? (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2653282&postcount=106)

Parry is incredibly strong, and i can already see it on certain people who play P Groove(though imo its alot better in CvS2 due to strict timing, in 3S it really is easier to parry by accident and i get punished), my Rolento loses it's edge and is forced to run away alot more. You can say thats just a different way of playing and maybe so in CvS2, but when everyone can do it, and Fireballs suck ass i dont see why anyone would like playing Turd Strike. Its why Remy is a garbage character, he cant even zone like Guile not even close with parries.

Everyone eventually plays about the same with the same mixups..hence UOH(Universal Overheads). And everyone is either Yun or Chun. Dumbs down every strategy to tapping forward or down, and everything you do can be a 50/50...

Though i know many people that LOVE the game, so its an either you hate it or love it. I freaking hate it think its one of the lesser worse games in SF. Imo SFIV is very ambitious, i was afraid Focus Attacks would be too parry-like, but the way its built made it much more interesting and the 3-D models were a big step for many as well.

EDIT: Fixed and added some stuff.

[Necronopticous]

This guy really shows what i feel about it:

Shoryuken - View Single Post - Parrying: Good or Bad? (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2652485&postcount=91)

Shoryuken - View Single Post - Parrying: Good or Bad? (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2653041&postcount=97)

Shoryuken - View Single Post - Parrying: Good or Bad? (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2653282&postcount=106)Hahahahahaha.

Those posts almost made me cry laughing. Nothing is more hilarious than that one guy who thinks that he, alone, understands something, and that every other person on Earth who is passionate about this thing is clueless because they don't agree with him.

Classic.

[Marshall Banana]

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/fofonda/emoticons/panda_pooping.gif

[Lionx]

Hey he plays very well at the games he is at and places high, if anything so he def knows alot. Third Strike homogenizes the game imo and he just puts it in better words than me. Besides SRK is full of that stuff, you take whats good out of it, and that guy knows what he is talking about. I am glad they dont have parry in SFIV and i dont think the SFIII series was any good for various reasons. I do admit though that alot of people like it and thats cool, i just dont think it feels Street Fighter.

/derail

So...whos getting this for PC? >_> I know i am...i think that should have the most userbase as everyone has a PC and not everyone has a new console..imo anyway and if they integrate it with Xbox servers it be awesome.

[Depression Moon]

I didn't know it was being released for the PC as well.

[Dreddz]

Though i know many people that LOVE the game, so its an either you hate it or love it. I freaking hate it think its one of the lesser worse games in SF. Imo SFIV is very ambitious, i was afraid Focus Attacks would be too parry-like, but the way its built made it much more interesting and the 3-D models were a big step for many as well.


The additions they have made for SFIV still seem like incremental upgrades from SFII. The way they evolved Street Fighter from the first game to the second and then to the third was much more ambitious and brave from Capcom.

I love Street Fighter and really want the series to lead innovation within the genre but it seems Capcom would rather play it safe like all the other companies still making fighting games and stick to what its knows best. Maybe you want that but I sure don't.

[Wolf Kanno]

I am looking forward to the title. I've been a big fan of Street Fighter since the original SFII debuted in arcades. Regretfully, I don't own any of the systems its available on (except PC but I will damn if I ever put a fighting game on this machine) but I could look around a few of my arcades that amazingly still exist out here.

I recently have collected a group of guys who love the old 2d fighters and we tend to hold tournaments so hopefully I will gain back my skills that have diminished over the years of playing RPGs and strategy titles.
I admit, I'm a bit with Dreddz that I feel SFIV is trying too hard to be like SFII 5.5 edition. The backtracking annoys me a bit but the game does look solid and the interviews sound like the team has put alot of love into the title so I'm pretty confident it will be pretty good. Still... I miss not having a boxing character like Balrog (M.Bison) or Dudley.

[I Took the Red Pill]

By the way, Chun-Li or GTFO.
Now we know what Joel did when he got banned. He made another account.

[Lionx]

Imo theres something for everyone, especially the Focus Attacks for those who liked the Parry system. Except its not an all encompassing universal low risk defensive system like Parry that weakens fireball zoning characters...now theres actually a risk you are taking this time and thats important in differing characters and playstyles imo.

I remember people wanted new characters, but when they saw SFIII and only recognized Ken and Ryu, people thought the chars were too wacky/not familiar or something(not that the original cast wasnt however, but it was iconic). I feel they did a good job here in giving people back in the days what was familiar and introducing the 4 new weird characters. I am particularly interested in Abel(who reminds me of Alex alot) and i think Rufus is hilarious being so huge yet one of the fastest in the game.

I think this game is well played based on past experiences for Capcom. Remember their last successful 2-D fighting game was Capcom vs SNK 2 like..8 odd years ago(Fighting Jam does not count as a fighting game...). And that imo was also pretty innovative by pushing/perfecting their ism/groove mechanics.

What would you like to see though in SFIV? I mean people wanted new characters in SFIII but it was just too different so many didnt like it...so now they are pushing in old and a handful of new which i think is the best compromise. EX Moves are there(one of the best things in SFIII I loved). Parry was deemed too powerful (Especially Red Parry i mean wtf parry in blockstun? Thats like DoA...), they balanced it out in CvS2 and now they do a focus attack to compromise it.


Still... I miss not having a boxing character like Balrog (M.Bison) or Dudley.

Balrog is in the game, but i agree, needs more Dudley. He is awesome.

[Depression Moon]

The visuals in the game look amazing. I wonder how Crimson Viper plays, she might add to my favorite character list.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't mean to sound like I'm dissing on the whole return of the original "twelve warriors" but I think it would have been nice to skim out a few of the SFII characters (Vega comes to mind, as well as Zangief and Guile, though I'm certain I will be lynched for those two), maybe added in a few SFIII characters (Alex would have been nice) instead of reusing most of the original cast and adding few fan favorites from the Alpha series (though its much appreciated). I do enjoy SFIII, mostly for its turn towards more aggressive play styles but I do feel the IV can deliver on that as well.

I'm just saying that IV at times feels less like IV and more like Super Street Fighter II: Alpha Hyper fighters edition. Sometimes you need to let go of some of the fan favorites, especially when they don't work as well in later titles.

EDIT: Balrog has finally been confirmed? That's good. Last I heard, they developers were thinking of dropping the boxing characters altogether for more wrestling/mix martial art characters.

[Depression Moon]

Zangief, Vega, and Guile dropped? Nah nah, that's terrible. The only ones that I want them dropping are the stereotypical Dee Jay and Barlog.

[SuperMillionaire]

I'm actually looking forward to playing as Gouken.

[Dreddz]

This is the first time I've heard someone clamoring for Balrog. In my opinion he has just been a burden to the series. He actually represents the biggest flaw in SFII by that he is such a low tier character that he ends up being useless. No matter how good you get with Balrog you will always be smoked. Dudley was a far superior replacement. Oh and Guile doesn't deserve to be skimmed out. Geez hes like my favourite character in the entire franchise, you take out Ryu before you take out Guile in my opinion.

I'd personally like to of seen the frames of animation carried over from SFIII to SFIV. But of course all the SFII loyalists won't have any of that.

[Wolf Kanno]

OK, now don't get me wrong, I didn't mean I like Balrog, I was more implying I felt it odd to remove the boxing characters. I know Balrog sucks but I feel we need someone representing and since SFIV is about not taking anything from SFIII we should know that Dudley was going to be denied from us.

I'm also for Dee Jay being removed or overhauled Ryu and Ken are staples so fat chance (besides, I'm a Shotokan Player), I would take Dudley over Balrog any day. I don't like Guile and I just feel he has not improved much over the years. I guess I feel he hasn't really changed since the original (minus the "handcuffing" glitch) and as the series refines the battle system he feels like a slow dinosaur. It was really apparent in Alpha 3 and some of the Vs. titles. He needs an overhaul or just be removed.

Vega... is nice but he has never been able to bring himself back up as a strong character once he became playable. He was amusing cause of his Stage but without it, he loses quite a bit of his versatility. They have done alot for him but characters like Cammy came along, who gave players a similar style of play with better versatility and well... I feel he's lost his edge.

[Lionx]

I do enjoy SFIII, mostly for its turn towards more aggressive play styles but I do feel the IV can deliver on that as well.


I would sorely disagree on many reasons...I feel the game is more turtling than ever before. =/


In my opinion he has just been a burden to the series. He actually represents the biggest flaw in SFII by that he is such a low tier character that he ends up being useless. No matter how good you get with Balrog you will always be smoked. Dudley was a far superior replacement

How can you say that? In Super Turbo Balrog was one of the strongest characters in the game, he was pretty much top tier along with Dhalsim, O.Sagat, and Vega. He builds meter insanely fast, has a very fierce rushdown, and his super does more than 60% damage and juggles. You really should Youtube some ST Balrog, he is pretty dope. Even in CvS2 he was alright, not top but formidable. Only game where he was kinda meh at was Alpha3.

Dudley is still superior though in terms of character design and class. :D


Vega... is nice but he has never been able to bring himself back up as a strong character once he became playable.

Vega was definitely top tier in Super Turbo and in CvS2. ST has his wall dive shannegans which is very hard to get out of.

YouTube - Evolution 2008 DVD Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXgpAXzqfkE&feature=channel_page)

@2:47, thats pretty hard to avoid once he gets going...like it says, its downright dirty once he gets the initial knockdown and if you play it right. He can Isuna Drop/claw you, knocking you down, then go in again while you are already down, and if dont reversal Dragon Punch right or dont have a Reversal it can be hell. Course if you try to air to air it like Bison with his jumping strongs, did in that clip you can get nailed too if you dont know where he ends up. Wall Dive Shaneigans.

In Capcom vs SNK 2 he is the staple entry character for the dominent Custom Combo groove ousting out Sakura's previous place because it is really hard to get in on him and usually can take out your entire 3 man team if played right...he just has no horrible matchups, at worst its 75/35 against him imo.

Vega has been hax in just about every game imo except in 4 from what i heard. @@; Guile too, he is always a solid character in every incarnation he is in except maybe Alpha 3 and Mahvel. I also dont see how Cammy is anything like Vega.


I'd personally like to of seen the frames of animation carried over from SFIII to SFIV.

From what i seen and heard Ken plays similar to his 3rd Strike incarnation. Pretty sure i seen the standing.mp > standing.hp target combo used before...somewhere...pretty sure it links to super as well like 3S.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't play tournaments but in my experience, the best Cammy players I meet fight like the best Vega fighters using speed and rolls to keep the opponent guessing before pulling off a throw or special. I can only imagine what a top tier would look like.

Guile is another where I haven't seen a real good player in years. Even the computer still tries to play him with his old Sonic Boom/Flask Kick trap. I just haven't seen anything interesting out of him in years.

As for "turtling" in SFIII, I find the characters move sets have been altered for a more aggressive style of play. I know parry can be cheap but unlike SC's parry system, I feel SFIII's can be used against an opponent as well. Its not just infinite defense. Granted, I don't feel its perfect either...

[Lionx]

Cammy is actually rated one of the lower ranked characters in Super Turbo, and just 'alright' in Alpha 3. I can agree that if Cammy starts her pressure its really crazy, but she has to start it first getting around a ton of 'walls'... Shes a beast in CvS2 though, parry then punch into free super. Mad good pokes all around.

Playing a good Guile might not seem that hard but against anyone good it actually can be very hard to mantain that trap. Its hard to say, but its really fun to choose Championship Edition Guile for me in SF Anniversary and zone all day with him. Thats what the oldschool SF was all about so he was very top tier in the older games. If you ever get SFIV for PC(or get GGPO..) i would be glad to play you with Guile. :) He still only has those two special moves for a reason...he is too good otherwise.


As for "turtling" in SFIII, I find the characters move sets have been altered for a more aggressive style of play. I know parry can be cheap but unlike SC's parry system, I feel SFIII's can be used against an opponent as well. Its not just infinite defense. Granted, I don't feel its perfect either...

I dont consider anything 'cheap' unless it breaks the game, Parry doesnt break the game but it does dumb it down imo. Even if your style is more aggressive, if i see it coming i can just parry it. Fireballs? They're useless just parry it not to mention the huge delay they have in that game. It dumbs down the game to who has the best pokes, what they can do after it, and who can mix up the best. Movesets dont matter if you got such a strong universal defense system.

This means i have to go into you and start fighting instead of being offensive with fireballs forcing people to just poke with long ranged moves(mostly crouching medium kicks because they link into supers). You think Parry will make people more 'offensive' but its not, if anything it means you can turtle MORE. It also dumbs down strategies like zoning. In old games position was so important, not so in SFIII. Like...

Fireballs being useless. It means i cant do mind games with them because they arent a threat. In older games if the opponent conditions you to jump over fireballs they get rewarded by thinking ahead of the opponent because they expected you to jump over and uppercut you. Now that doesnt work in this game because you can just cover your mistake by pressing a tap of your joystick. Its why Remy is trash in the game, Guile-like characters need their sonic booms to zone, parry removes fireballs/zoning and the only thing you do then is play footsies(in simple terms, exchanging pokes).

In older games you have to uppercut or do something to break out of the corner at the right time, if you screw up you get punched landing the uppercut. In SFIII you just tap down + an attack(prob medium kick then cancel super lolz...) and get a low risk defense. Or tap forward and buffer in an uppercut motion, and pressing punch only when you get the parry. Its not no risk but its VERY low risk imo and nothing you can react to unlike an uppercut. Accidental parries are also :( P Groove is better because the window to parry is tighter and you usually have to parry because you wanna.

Also if you fire a fireball and they parry it, you get no meter! But you get insane ammounts of meter when i whiff a medium attack(which i offen do). Thank god they fixed that in CvS2...it means people would turtle all the time just to get meter or spend 20 seconds building meter. My mind just screams 'why are you punishing someone who is doing an offensive action and rewarding someone for spamming?"

YouTube - [SF3 2I match] ��り� (Sean) VS �� (Sean) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y28csiVWflY) < wtf

Homogenization imo, with Universal Overheads and everyone getting Parries along with Throws being ticked(taking no damage for you trying to counter a throw). I am also aware you cant possibly parry everything in the game, but playing this game for a year or so and watching some people play, my opinion became what it is now. Besides EVO tournament's top 8 were all Chun-Li's except for one Akuma...it gets old seeing her do insane damage off a late cancel-ed medium kick. Best part is when a good well known player tells me the best thing to do when in trouble is to tap down because probability of someone doing a low attack is higher, and it can also parry many things you dont think it can like uppercuts..>_>



Thats not to say SFIII is horrible though, it is very popular worldwide especially after the Daigo Video. It does allow for more major comebacks, and introduced Dashing, Target Combos, and EX moves which i think are great additions. Alex, Makoto, Ibuki, Yun/Yang, and Dudley were great characters. It was just too different for me because of these things they introduced. But it just might be right for some other people who are more poke oriented and like games like Tekken. For me it was very different than how SF was played and it didnt feel the same.

I apologize for the wall of text...i have a strong opinion of the game ^^; and if i sounded rude i am sorry :( I think Capcom was bold to release SFIII with what they did if anything, i just dont think it worked out well or think SFIV is a step back from it. If anything SFIV is taking everything they learned with all previous SF, then making it into a more balanced and fun package.

[JKTrix]

If anyone else completely understood what LionX just said, we need to be friends.


I know parry can be cheap but unlike SC's parry system, I feel SFIII's can be used against an opponent as well. Its not just infinite defense.

Just to defend SC a bit, Guard Impacting is not cheap/infinite defense either. You do have an advantage after performing it, though the person on the receiving end is not defenseless and can retaliate with their own parry (and makes its own little rock-paper-scissors gameplay). Which may be what you're referring to, since SF3's parrying will essentially give you a free attack where SC still gives you a chance to defend yourself.

DOA's was cheap though. You could have a reversal attempt after every individual hit in a combo string as long as your feet were on the ground. You are punished by taking increased damage if you guess wrong, but if you get good enough to exploit it fully it is really cheap :p

[Wolf Kanno]

Cammy is actually rated one of the lower ranked characters in Super Turbo, and just 'alright' in Alpha 3. I can agree that if Cammy starts her pressure its really crazy, but she has to start it first getting around a ton of 'walls'... Shes a beast in CvS2 though, parry then punch into free super. Mad good pokes all around.

Playing a good Guile might not seem that hard but against anyone good it actually can be very hard to mantain that trap. Its hard to say, but its really fun to choose Championship Edition Guile for me in SF Anniversary and zone all day with him. Thats what the oldschool SF was all about so he was very top tier in the older games. If you ever get SFIV for PC(or get GGPO..) i would be glad to play you with Guile. :) He still only has those two special moves for a reason...he is too good otherwise.

I will have to play you sometime then. Its been years since I played a good Guile player but I blame it on the advancements in the series like Air Blocks and Air Recovery that makes his trap (and a few other characters) not as effective as they once were.



As for "turtling" in SFIII, I find the characters move sets have been altered for a more aggressive style of play. I know parry can be cheap but unlike SC's parry system, I feel SFIII's can be used against an opponent as well. Its not just infinite defense. Granted, I don't feel its perfect either...I dont consider anything 'cheap' unless it breaks the game, Parry doesnt break the game but it does dumb it down imo. Even if your style is more aggressive, if i see it coming i can just parry it. Fireballs? They're useless just parry it not to mention the huge delay they have in that game. It dumbs down the game to who has the best pokes, what they can do after it, and who can mix up the best. Movesets dont matter if you got such a strong universal defense system.

Just to clarify, I never said the parry system made the game more aggressive, I just said many of the characters have a more aggressive move set. I also feel this comes down to just a change in how you play. Its not "classic" Street Fighter and instead more like Guilty Gear with a bit more refinement and less pyrotechnics. Its the reason I adapted well to it cause I'm use defense systems that remove old school zoning traps as major threats. I guess I'm use to "poking" as you call it, and utilizing projectiles solely for set-ups and mind games. Of anything, the parry system allows you to lull your opponent into a false sense of security by making them think they are invincible to your tricks.


This means i have to go into you and start fighting instead of being offensive with fireballs forcing people to just poke with long ranged moves(mostly crouching medium kicks because they link into supers). You think Parry will make people more 'offensive' but its not, if anything it means you can turtle MORE. It also dumbs down strategies like zoning. In old games position was so important, not so in SFIII. Like...

To be honest, I was never fond of just overwhelming opponents with projectiles as a strategy and I do actually feel "going in" and pounding away is more aggressive fighting since projectile spamming is more about rhythm and timing than being aggressive. I feel this is a moment where I feel we are coming from different schools of approach.


Fireballs being useless. It means i cant do mind games with them because they arent a threat. In older games if the opponent conditions you to jump over fireballs they get rewarded by thinking ahead of the opponent because they expected you to jump over and uppercut you. Now that doesnt work in this game because you can just cover your mistake by pressing a tap of your joystick. Its why Remy is trash in the game, Guile-like characters need their sonic booms to zone, parry removes fireballs/zoning and the only thing you do then is play footsies(in simple terms, exchanging pokes).

They are not completely useless, their offensive abilites have been diminished but they still hold quite a bit of strategy as they allow you to upset an opponents flow and allow you to keep them somewhat pinned down in certain positions. If you use the Jab or Strong versions which lack real speed, you can counter the moves slow recovery time. You basically just use them to keep an opponent on the defensive until you get close enough to start your own close range offense.


In older games you have to uppercut or do something to break out of the corner at the right time, if you screw up you get punched landing the uppercut. In SFIII you just tap down + an attack(prob medium kick then cancel super lolz...) and get a low risk defense. Or tap forward and buffer in an uppercut motion, and pressing punch only when you get the parry. Its not no risk but its VERY low risk imo and nothing you can react to unlike an uppercut. Accidental parries are also :( P Groove is better because the window to parry is tighter and you usually have to parry because you wanna.

This does get really annoying. I've only recently took SFIII back up cause I finally got a console version of it so I'm re-learning everything since I haven't played it since it first came out in the arcades. On the one hand, I'm glad parry allows you to get out of the annoying and generally cheap "cornering strategies" but I agree that the controls for Parry are not nearly as solid as I would like them to be. I still can't parry on command and tend to do it on accident more than often. It makes versus matches more annoying than they should be. :mad2:


Also if you fire a fireball and they parry it, you get no meter! But you get insane ammounts of meter when i whiff a medium attack(which i offen do). Thank god they fixed that in CvS2...it means people would turtle all the time just to get meter or spend 20 seconds building meter. My mind just screams 'why are you punishing someone who is doing an offensive action and rewarding someone for spamming?"

YouTube - [SF3 2I match] ��り� (Sean) VS �� (Sean) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y28csiVWflY) < wtf

Homogenization imo, with Universal Overheads and everyone getting Parries along with Throws being ticked(taking no damage for you trying to counter a throw). I am also aware you cant possibly parry everything in the game, but playing this game for a year or so and watching some people play, my opinion became what it is now. Besides EVO tournament's top 8 were all Chun-Li's except for one Akuma...it gets old seeing her do insane damage off a late cancel-ed medium kick. Best part is when a good well known player tells me the best thing to do when in trouble is to tap down because probability of someone doing a low attack is higher, and it can also parry many things you dont think it can like uppercuts..>_>

That is :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull:, so I'm not really going to argue. Though I heard Ken was considered a top tier god due to a few cheap tactics in his arsenal.

Its annoying but I also play Guilty Gear where your Tension gauge increases by just walking towards your opponent so it doesn't bother me as much as I think it bothers you (course GG has stuff that counters this as well). I'm not arguing that SFIII is perfect, the game has its faults but its just trying to move forward. Yes it stumbles and sometimes falls flat on its face but I feel the game does bring the series somewhat forward cause the old "Zoning" methods made gameplay more static and rigid. Its why interest in the series died out.


Thats not to say SFIII is horrible though, it is very popular worldwide especially after the Daigo Video. It does allow for more major comebacks, and introduced Dashing, Target Combos, and EX moves which i think are great additions. Alex, Makoto, Ibuki, Yun/Yang, and Dudley were great characters. It was just too different for me because of these things they introduced. But it just might be right for some other people who are more poke oriented and like games like Tekken. For me it was very different than how SF was played and it didnt feel the same.

I can understand how the drastic change threw you off and I agree that SFIII does not really feel like SFII (more like an extension of SFA). Granted I hate Tekken so I don't get the comparison but I do enjoy SFIII cause its a nice combo of my two favorite fighting series SF Alpha and the Guilty Gear series. I feel SFIII still has the "chess playing" thinking man gameplay but it also brings in more of a chaos factor and sometimes quick reflexes are more important than well thought out strategies. I guess I enjoy SFIII cause it does turn the classic SFII forumal on its head. For once, I have to actually re-learn how to play Ryu cause his old bags of tricks don't hold the same value.


I apologize for the wall of text...i have a strong opinion of the game ^^; and if i sounded rude i am sorry :( I think Capcom was bold to release SFIII with what they did if anything, i just dont think it worked out well or think SFIV is a step back from it. If anything SFIV is taking everything they learned with all previous SF, then making it into a more balanced and fun package.

I don't mind, its been quite insightful and I'm always happy to help someone vent. Just take a deep breath and relax. I understand where you are coming from and to be honest, I look forward to SFIV's fighting system. My gripe before was more about the game relying on SFII's nostalgia with its characters.

I do look forward immensely for the game cause fighting games use to be my passion and lately its been having a bit more of a revival for me as I am going back to classice 2-D fighters and regaining my old skills. Granted, I'm still a long ways from doing that...:eep:


If anyone else completely understood what LionX just said, we need to be friends.


I know parry can be cheap but unlike SC's parry system, I feel SFIII's can be used against an opponent as well. Its not just infinite defense.

Just to defend SC a bit, Guard Impacting is not cheap/infinite defense either. You do have an advantage after performing it, though the person on the receiving end is not defenseless and can retaliate with their own parry (and makes its own little rock-paper-scissors gameplay). Which may be what you're referring to, since SF3's parrying will essentially give you a free attack where SC still gives you a chance to defend yourself.

You misunderstand what I meant, I was implying that parrying projectiles and certain moves keeps an opponent at a certain distance or rhythm. You can use Parry against an opponent to control the flow of the fight. You can't really do this with Guard Impact due to the lack of projectiles in the game.

Granted, I do not care for GI cause it gets annoying watching two good player exchange them for awhile in their battles. Not to mention the CPU spams them in the higher difficulty setting. They are just annoying imo.


DOA's was cheap though. You could have a reversal attempt after every individual hit in a combo string as long as your feet were on the ground. You are punished by taking increased damage if you guess wrong, but if you get good enough to exploit it fully it is really cheap :p

Don't remind me... DOA is annoying cause the only way to beat most of their bosses is just to stay defensive and spam reversals. It gets so annoying.

[Lionx]

If anyone else completely understood what LionX just said, we need to be friends.

I love you too baby! :love:


I will have to play you sometime then. Its been years since I played a good Guile player but I blame it on the advancements in the series like Air Blocks and Air Recovery that makes his trap (and a few other characters) not as effective as they once were.

I would love to have some good games with you, hopefully i can get my ass beat so i feel like i need to up my game more :)

I dont think Air Recovery/Air Block hurt his game as much as parry though(Swap Guile with Remy). With Parry nothing works as well, but with Airblock, you can still do ground attacks like crouching hard punch which is an uppercut like move and hit them clean since air block doesnt block grounded attacks. It screwed with his Flash Kick though both Charlie and Guile's.

One of the key things in CvS2 i learned that is when using Guile, against a P Groover (that can Parry) or a K Groover(who can Just Defend, which is a backward parry of sorts, block just before it hits you), is to never use a Flash Kick as a straight Anti-Air because its just so easy to Parry or JD. And if you have a Parry guy in that game, the traps work alot less limiting Guile's entire game.

I am wrong though, theres is a couple traps in 3S that you can do. One is Urien's Aegis Reflector which is VERY damn strong and even more hax than Guile's Sonic Boom. And the other is Yun's Genei En(sp) which is his Custom Combo super...its stronger than it looks more so than Yang's.


Just to clarify, I never said the parry system made the game more aggressive, I just said many of the characters have a more aggressive move set. I also feel this comes down to just a change in how you play.

I apologize if i wasnt clear, i never meant that Parry made the game more aggressive. My point was that aggressive movesets do not matter in a game where you have a system like Parry that can defeat all of those movesets. Unlike Guilty Gear where it costs you meter to protect yourself(and that game has MUCH more crap to be aware of than Third Strike so i can totally understand), it costs you nothing to parry if you do it right. My example would be the part where i said:


In older games you have to uppercut or do something to break out of the corner at the right time, if you screw up you get punched landing the uppercut. In SFIII you just tap down + an attack(prob medium kick then cancel super lolz...) and get a low risk defense. Or tap forward and buffer in an uppercut motion, and pressing punch only when you get the parry. Its not no risk but its VERY low risk imo and nothing you can react to unlike an uppercut.

These are no accidental parries. Again, NOT Accidents. This is using Parry to its Maximum advantage and reducing the ammount of risk you take. So you can parry down AND tag the guy, at best you get the parry and you hit the guy, and at worst the move comes out anyway missing him and you lose nothing as it is hard to react to this mistake. Same for the forward parry by doing the Dragon Punch motion but not finishing it. At worst you do nothing, at best you will parry, and once you see the spark, on reaction finish the Dragon Punch motion and tag the guy for little risk.

I am saying Parry makes turtling 10x easier, at no cost on your end(which is why Focus Attacks have a cost) and that movesets dont matter as much in a game like this. Not that movesets never matter, but it becomes only the pokes(long ranged moves that establish space for your character) that can take advantage of parries from far away and then cancel into huge damage(like Chun Li's Super or a knockdown into mixups). It reduces everyone to this style of play.

Parry is a good concept but it was executed very poorly imo. Just Defend was 10x Better. Garou ftw.



On Fireballs: I find them to be an integral part of Street Fighter as it distinguishes characters from one another. Also Fireballs even used in combos arent safe, i remember when i started out and do the standard combo of Jumping Hard Kick, Crouching Medium into a normal Fireball. I hit Alex clean and then he did an EX Shoulder Run and hit me...and i hit him clean. wtf is that?!

The only Fireball i find useful in oldschool use is Ryu's EX Red Fireball at certain distances because of its speed which people have a hard time reacting quick enough to. The rest i havent really found a solid use outside of combos, not even Akuma's ability to do a Red Fireball and still fire an Air one. Parry kills all of it and my huge delay after firing one hampers it even more. Once the person picks it up i am back to playing like Ryu until i can land a hurricane kick. Which leads to uppercuts, jab, and demon flip mixups and etc..

I rarely use fireballs in that game outside of habit from older games after a knockdown. =/


To be honest, I was never fond of just overwhelming opponents with projectiles as a strategy and I do actually feel "going in" and pounding away is more aggressive fighting since projectile spamming is more about rhythm and timing than being aggressive. I feel this is a moment where I feel we are coming from different schools of approach.

Maybe it is different schools but its never rhythm. If it IS Rhythm then you (in general not you as in you) are being stupid and it makes me easily fall into place to screw with you. If for example its ME doing Rhythm then you can easily take me out because i am being predictable. There is no overwhelming of JUST fireballs, its using your sonic booms which is unique with its recovery(hence why its a charge motion), along with your dominent normal moves. Sometimes the best thing to do is NOT fire another projectile because thats what the opponent might expect and punish you for it. This is where waiting one second and doing things accordingly can change the match alot.

One second is everything sometimes, not just mindlessly overwhelming people with fireballs because that never happens against anyone good. Its not unbeatable, it just may seem that way if you are playing it wrong. Parry just covers up all your mistakes that you could have made in that game and makes this strategy useless. Hence why SFIII is a totally different game and just makes characters who have a unique playstyle like this with strong pokes that establish space and a good fireball, worthless.

Guile can be very aggressive, you just gotta see it in a different light than just a flurry of attacks. Its almost like Poker sometimes to me.


This does get really annoying. I've only recently took SFIII back up cause I finally got a console version of it so I'm re-learning everything since I haven't played it since it first came out in the arcades. On the one hand, I'm glad parry allows you to get out of the annoying and generally cheap "cornering strategies" but I agree that the controls for Parry are not nearly as solid as I would like them to be. I still can't parry on command and tend to do it on accident more than often. It makes versus matches more annoying than they should be.:mad2:

I actually meant its too easy to parry in SFIII ^^;;; in Capcom vs SNK 2(CvS2) it is much tougher. At first i thought that sucked for those who played it, but after seeing how easy it can be in 3S i am glad they made it less accidental and more deliberal and taking more skill to time it.



SFIII usually has the most lopsided tiers too with Ibuki, Sean and Akuma dominating the first two installments, and then the third is Chun and Yun. Granted others can win too but those are the two most dominating. The reason i didnt state Ken is because he isnt retardedly strong like Chun or Yun, he is just very balanced everywhere.


I'm not arguing that SFIII is perfect, the game has its faults but its just trying to move forward. Yes it stumbles and sometimes falls flat on its face but I feel the game does bring the series somewhat forward cause the old "Zoning" methods made gameplay more static and rigid. Its why interest in the series died out.


I dont think it ever died out, it was just because Tekken was the next best thing during that time. That and CvS2 was the new Alpha even if its not a SF titled game. If it really did die out then EVO world Tournaments wouldnt be coming and bringing attention to Capcom to make a SFIV because there is a huge following.

My opinion though is that it did not bring the game forward as much as it did, and actually made the gameplay more static and rigid in how it is played because many tactics are destroyed and you are forced to play footsies all the time. That and the Tiers are very lopsided.


I can understand how the drastic change threw you off and I agree that SFIII does not really feel like SFII (more like an extension of SFA). Granted I hate Tekken so I don't get the comparison but I do enjoy SFIII cause its a nice combo of my two favorite fighting series SF Alpha and the Guilty Gear series. I feel SFIII still has the "chess playing" thinking man gameplay but it also brings in more of a chaos factor and sometimes quick reflexes are more important than well thought out strategies. I guess I enjoy SFIII cause it does turn the classic SFII forumal on its head. For once, I have to actually re-learn how to play Ryu cause his old bags of tricks don't hold the same value.

I dont agree with Alpha being an extension off the SFIII series...they are still too different imo. I do agree though SFIII has alot of chess into it or Rock/Paper/Scissor effect. I just dont feel its very SF rofl, but again there are tons of people who play this game worldwide and like it. So it has to be doing something right.

Personally if it was not named Street Fighter and took out Ryu and Ken, it might help some of the people who are used to the oldschool play understand that this game plays totally different than SFII and look at it as an individual game and not something after Alpha. I think thats why many people were surprised after a bit of playing that its so different.

SFIII is its own unique game thats totally different from all SFs :)


------

You should play Capcom vs SNK 2 lol. Love that game alot. You can choose P Groove and parry in that game if you like, and face off against Alpha's A-ism, V-ism, along with some KoF stuff you dont see in SF games. Ryu is like much different there too.

I look forward to seeing everyone on SFIV sometime ^^ Lets have some good games. Wolf Kanno if you want PM me, and i can show you a place to play SFIII Third Strike online with good netcode called GGPO. Might be able to find some players to play against to sharpen up those 3S skills. :)

[Winter Nights]

Looks awesome, but I really have to wonder why Capcom bothered with touching up SF2 for SF2HD, when they were just going release an updated remake under the guise of SF4. :rolleyes2

[Lionx]

Looks awesome, but I really have to wonder why Capcom bothered with touching up SF2 for SF2HD, when they were just going release an updated remake under the guise of SF4. :rolleyes2

Because the fans wanted it. The game is 14 years old and is STILL among the most world-widely played SF game in tournaments. It is truly the game that withstood the test of time. People go nuts over it is the simple meaning...the complex one can be..>_>; Long.

SF2HD is the updated remake with rebalance, SFIV is an entirely different game with different systems and engine. Cant really compare the two on the exact same level.

EDIT: Guides: Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix Strategy Guide -- Moves, Hints and Tips -- EventHubs.com (http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/27/super-street-fighter-2-turbo-hd-remix-strategy-guide-moves-hints-and-tips/)

Here read this for awesome SF2HD stuff, it can help bring light or polish your oldschool game :)

[Winter Nights]

Every video I've seen for it just looks like the newest addition to the already bloated Street Fighter 2 series with new features and extra characters, rather than a whole new game in the Street Fighter franchise. How many different versions of SF2 did they have back in the day? Six or seven?

[Lionx]

Every video I've seen for it just looks like the newest addition to the already bloated Street Fighter 2 series with new features and extra characters, rather than a whole new game in the Street Fighter franchise. How many different versions of SF2 did they have back in the day? Six or seven?

It is an upgraded game, hence HD REMIX. They never advertised anything about it being a totally new game in the franchise.

If you meant SFIV being like that then you are totally wrong, and need to play all of them a little more against other decent people to understand the differences...

Actually all installments of SF are really different. But casual players would never notice. This is especially true for SF2HD. Bison in CE is SO much more powerful than his HF incarnation, and plays differently than his ST incarnation. Same for Blanka in HF and ST, or Guile in WW compared to ST.

Bison - GOD char in CE, WORST char in HF, and a really good high ranked one in ST.

For the original game theres:

SFII: World Warrior or WW (broken by today's standards lol)
SFII: Championship Edition or CE(very broken still)
SFII Turbo: Hyper Fighting or HF (One of the more balanced ones and people love this game).
Super SFII: New Challengers or SSFII (Not sure about this one, but its not that good).
Super SFII: Turbo or ST (the one that has been out for 14 years and is the most balanced and played around the world)

Now

Super SFII Turbo HD Remix or SF2HD. There are alot of changes...what that means to you is another thing but they were significant imo. I cant say whether or not this game is broken or good, but so far i like it. But in another couple years the opinion might change as things are still being discovered about the game. You can check out that link i had in the above post for some more differences...

and..

YouTube - super street fighter 2 HD CapCombos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VhGlzB90Eo) hawt..some of these arent able to be done in the earlier games too...but these are still hard to pull off..


SFIV Stuff - Alternate Costumes here!

YouTube - Street Fighter 4 - Alternate Costumes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6zmNZpE8mQ)

[Winter Nights]

If you meant SFIV being like that then you are totally wrong, and need to play all of them a little more against other decent people to understand the differences...

Actually all installments of SF are really different. But casual players would never notice. This is especially true for SF2HD. Bison in CE is SO much more powerful than his HF incarnation, and plays differently than his ST incarnation. Same for Blanka in HF and ST, or Guile in WW compared to ST.

Bison - GOD char in CE, WORST char in HF, and a really good high ranked one in ST.

For the original game theres:

SFII: World Warrior or WW (broken by today's standards lol)
SFII: Championship Edition or CE(very broken still)
SFII Turbo: Hyper Fighting or HF (One of the more balanced ones and people love this game).
Super SFII: New Challengers or SSFII (Not sure about this one, but its not that good).
Super SFII: Turbo or ST (the one that has been out for 14 years and is the most balanced and played around the world)

Now

Super SFII Turbo HD Remix or SF2HD. There are alot of changes...what that means to you is another thing but they were significant imo. I cant say whether or not this game is broken or good, but so far i like it. But in another couple years the opinion might change as things are still being discovered about the game.

My post was in reference to Street Fighter IV. And everything you just said there, is a shining example of my point. SF4 doesn't look like a brand new game in the Street Fighter franchise. It just looks like the newest update of Street Fighter II, with new features and characters.

Street Fighter III was a completely new game. Street Fighter IV looks like the same :skull::skull::skull::skull:, made new again.

[Lionx]

LOL my post was mostly for SFHD. Totally off SFIV.

I have no idea what in your mind constitutes as a new game then. Is Alpha a new series for you? Or just the same thing with extra characters? I am confused by your definition.

[Winter Nights]

Alpha was a prequel series with a completely different style to it, so yeah, it's a different series. VI is supposed to take place right after II, features updated versions off alot of the backgrounds from II, features most of the same characters from II, and seems to be just adding a little bit more to the story of II, from what little they've revealed.

Granted, anything either of us say is just hearsay, until the game is released. It could be just as I've said just now or could veer off in a completely different direction. All we have to go on is some in-game fighting clips and interviews that don't get too in-depth on what's new story-wise. It looks alot like II to me, but who knows?

[Lionx]

Alpha was a prequel series with a completely different style to it, so yeah, it's a different series. VI is supposed to take place right after II, features updated versions off alot of the backgrounds from II, features most of the same characters from II, and seems to be just adding a little bit more to the story of II, from what little they've revealed.

Granted, anything either of us say is just hearsay, until the game is released. It could be just as I've said just now or could veer off in a completely different direction. All we have to go on is some in-game fighting clips and interviews that don't get too in-depth on what's new story-wise. It looks alot like II to me, but who knows?

Theres actually a SFIV cab around my area, i havent played it yet being 75 cents and i have alot studies...but i do eventually plan to play it too. The game is actually out in the states in limited quantities and locations for a while already.

I seen matches being played before and its definitely different from the original SFII but it still retains its essence from it as well as the Alpha games. The backgrounds are totally new, 3-D cel shaded and rendered, and if anything the only thing that looks like an updated old stage is Guile's and Chun's 3S stage. The rest like under the bridge, Seth's stage, and the boat with the sunset in the back are totally new along with the Vegas looking one.

Besides no one really cares about story. Its just an interesting side tibet for most people(and if in shoryuken.com would be a flamefest lol). The main meat of the game and the reason why the original ST game lasted so long was because of the gameplay and how the things were structured. Have you seen the story of the original? It sucked ALOT. But no one gives a damn thats not why they play it.

In the end, thats the reason why theres alot of different versions of SFII because the gameplay has changed and things have been tweaked to turn it into an entirely different game(if you want to think about it differently you can think of the different versions of SFII to be patches or new expansion packs to an MMO or online game). Theres no need for backgrounds to be different totally or story to make it a good game, its just an added bonus unlike RPGs where everything is about the story and without it, it would have suckass gameplay.

So i think you are looking at Street Fighter the wrong way when you want a new game. Try playing more people that are better than you, then learn more about the game...then find even harder opponents. You will learn so much that it becomes second nature to play it if you put in the effort, and that the mechanics even upon looking at gameplay is very different from all previous games yet still remotely familiar. Its a competitive game and should be treated as such once they added a 2P function, not an RPG.

[JKTrix]

There are details online on what makes this game more than one of the incremental upgrades to SF2. The Focus system is the main thing that sets it apart.

YouTube - Focus Attack Tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wspkMpyNbJQ&fmt=18)

[s]will try to give a very very rough translation

actually scratch that. I've attached a PDF from someone who takes 26 pages to talk all about Focus attacks. Watch the video, check the PDF.

[Lionx]

JKTrix: Good stuff man. I forgot about that PDF because i dont play Third Strike...its a great write up on how to transition. <3

[Winter Nights]

I'm amused that you keep telling me to learn more about the series, considering I've played every SF game to be released, aside from SF2HD and now SF4. Been playing the series, since I was 6 years-old.

And yes, the original SF had a :skull::skull::skull::skull:ty story, but I always liked the different stories in SF2 and on up. But, that has nothing to do with my point.

My point was that SF4, from all the promotional material looks like another (using your wording here) expansion of SF2. This may not be the case, as there nearest arcade is about an hour from where I live. The nearest one that's not completely :skull::skull::skull::skull:ty and might have SF4? About four hours. So I'm gonna have to wait for the console release to find out.

EDIT: Rethinking it, my response was a little catty. So, I'll just leave it at "I stand corrected."

[Lionx]

I'm amused that you keep telling me to learn more about the series, considering I've played every SF game to be released, aside from SF2HD and now SF4. Been playing the series, since I was 6 years-old.

And yes, the original SF had a :skull::skull::skull::skull:ty story, but I always liked the different stories in SF2 and on up. But, that has nothing to do with my point.

My point was that SF4, from all the promotional material looks like another (using your wording here) expansion of SF2. This may not be the case, as there nearest arcade is about an hour from where I live. The nearest one that's not completely :skull::skull::skull::skull:ty and might have SF4? About four hours. So I'm gonna have to wait for the console release to find out. You apparently have seen it in action, as you just just listed major differences. If you had just posted that several posts ago, instead of snobbishly assuming that, because I hadn't seen it, I wasn't a true Street Fighter fan or whatever, I wouldn't have wasted the last 35 minutes going back and forth with you on the matter.

Just because you played it doesnt mean you actually know how to play well at the game. I didnt take it too seriously and played mostly the CPU until College due to the lack of a driver's license. I was a newb back then despite having played all of those games before. I SUCKED. Got my ass handed to me so much for more quarters. The fact that you think all the SFII original games to be the same or too similar to SFIV made me think that way, because to me its very evident on how different it is just by looking at how people play it online on youtube.

I also meant learn more about the series as in how its played at a higher level by playing others, not about the statistics or the story or etc. But actual gameplay elements at a deeper view and stuff. I used to think all SF's were just a new coat of paint or with some flashy gfx. But eventually after putting enough effort of actually playing stronger competition, i found that every little thing was deeply planned and makes each installment very different from the other.

If everything that made it a new game was just new characters, background, and story...then it wouldnt be a worthwhile Fighting game at all.

If i did appear to sound snobbish that was not my intent. I just dont feel you knew what you were talking about but i meant no ill intent. You were the one that put heavy emphasis on story on one of your posts when i asked about what makes a new game...and so i tell you that, its not that which makes it a new game. What i meant was, play more people, and maybe you understand why i have the viewpoint i have with gameplay vs story. With SFIV's online mode you can play more people right at home without the distance of an arcade as i know it can be hard to get to for some.

The only game mentioned that can reasonably be called an expansion is SF2HDR to the original SFII. SFIV has very different systems that dramatically alter play so its a new game.

Again theres no hate, theres only love :love:

[Winter Nights]

First off, I only mentioned story and time-frame amongst things that might make SF4 seem like a new iteration of SF2. While, I like the little stories for each character, I never said that it was focal part of the series. You said that, putting words in my mouth. Secondly, I never stated, nor implied that all SF2 games were "the same". Anyone who's played more than one of them, even casually, could tell you that they are all fundamentally different. Again, putting words in my mouth.

For someone who has no intention of sounding snobbish about this subject, you're doing a grand job. :rolleyes2

That said, I'm bored with arguing about a game I have yet to play, so the thread is yours. *bows*

[Lionx]

First off, I only mentioned story and time-frame amongst things that might make SF4 seem like a new iteration of SF2. While, I like the little stories for each character, I never said that it was focal part of the series. You said that, putting words in my mouth. Secondly, I never stated, nor implied that all SF2 games were "the same". Anyone who's played more than one of them, even casually, could tell you that they are all fundamentally different. Again, putting words in my mouth.

For someone who has no intention of sounding snobbish about this subject, you're doing a grand job. :rolleyes2

Please someone tell me that his post about 'what made a new SF game' seemed to focus more on the story aspect than actual gameplay. Because thats what i sure read it as.


Alpha was a prequel series with a completely different style to it, so yeah, it's a different series. VI is supposed to take place right after II, features updated versions off alot of the backgrounds from II, features most of the same characters from II, and seems to be just adding a little bit more to the story of II, from what little they've revealed.

Granted, anything either of us say is just hearsay, until the game is released. It could be just as I've said just now or could veer off in a completely different direction. All we have to go on is some in-game fighting clips and interviews that don't get too in-depth on what's new story-wise. It looks alot like II to me, but who knows?

in response to:


I have no idea what in your mind constitutes as a new game then. Is Alpha a new series for you? Or just the same thing with extra characters? I am confused by your definition.

[Winter Nights]

Actually, if you read your own post, your question was if Alpha was a new SF SERIES not SF GAME. I just answered your question. The story is what separates the different series. The game-play and format is what separates each game. Each SF2 game is part of the SF2 series, because it's the same story, despite each game being quite different in terms of game play and format.

The story isn't what makes the game, but it is what decides which series in the franchise it's apart of. Alot of the promotional material is obviously catered to SF2 fans, giving off the air that the Capcom is re-hashing the same story under a new title. Thus, my original post.

Again.. I stand corrected on the matter and the thread is yours.

[Roogle]

Capcom is marketing the game in a method similar to Street Fighter II to recapture the large audience that the game had in the early 90's. This has no bearing on whether or not Street Fighter IV has gameplay similarity to Street Fighter II.

[Depression Moon]

I just tried the demo at Gametop the other day and I was addicted to it. I was at least in there for a half an hour playing. I wasn't as easy as I remembered and I found C. Viper easier to use than Chun Li. I got off of it though when a guy walked up and beat me with E. Honda, I almost got him though. Man, I really wish I had a PS3, even if the only game I have is this.

[Dreddz]

I really wish I would have put more time into SFIV. The game is great and probably the most refined of all the Street Fighters but I still haven't played it much at all. I unlocked all the characters (except Seth which I'm working on).

Online play is good but its only fun playing non-ranked matches because losing doesn't have as many consequences so people experiment with what characters they choose. In ranked matches you will be facing Ken 90% of the time, no exaggeration. At least in non-ranked matches you'll get to fight a Dhalsim and E.Honda here and there. Its a damn shame that this had to happen and I blame Capcom for this. I only play with friends anyway so it doesn't bother me too much.

[Rase]

Finally got a chance to play a little at a demo with a friend for two fights. Tried out El Fuerte and got my ass kicked by his Blanka because I had no clue what I was doing, then switched to Guile and beat his Zangief. All in all it was very fun and I can't wait to play it some more.

Also, that middle sentence read alone and with no clue who the characters are makes it sound like I'm talking about Pokemon, which is also awesome.

[Lionx]

Only thing so far is that i cant seem to do meaty attacks as well in this game...

Ken Strats:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1800/kenflowc.png

[Wolf Kanno]

Finally got in a little game time with this title. Some moves feel really slow and its interesting how it feels like a few characters have been reset to the original SFII move set but overall it was pretty fun. Viper is a cheating bitch...

Viper: Hi, I'm Viper! I play like a mix of Kyo and Iori from KoF, two of the most broken characters in that title. Have a nice day :jess:

Overall, it was really fun. The backgrounds are truly gorgeous but the game doesn't seem to flow as fluently as I had hoped. Still fun and hoping to relearn a few people. :cool:

[Depression Moon]

YouTube - Street Fighter 4 Online Match #1 - Sakura(Me) vs C. Viper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM4K0cmLVg8&feature=related)

This is a great vid.
Man, C. Viper should have whooped his ass! He fought well though. I reallly need to get this.

[Lionx]

YouTube - SF4 match 27092008 - Dhalsim vs C.Viper [gamechariot.com] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_NAKR6sKx0)
YouTube - SFIV - ��ゅん [C.Viper]ー] vs ドドリア�ん [Sagat] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dcdw9pNsGc)

Viper is alot better than people think...keep an eye on her, Japanese people rated her garbage at first to top tier now.

Which version are you getting DepressionMoon?

[Markus. D]

I had a dream I was VSing Roogle.

I was Rose and he was, I forget what he was.

But anyways! it ended up with me doing a normal throw, following up with a focus attack and a Reflect combo to finish him off.

Me: Rose is so kewl! I love Rose!
Roo: No, I love Rose, you two are just good friends.

I woke up all laugh-ish... this game is consuming me, bah!

[Depression Moon]

YouTube - SF4 match 27092008 - Dhalsim vs C.Viper [gamechariot.com] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_NAKR6sKx0)
YouTube - SFIV - ��ゅん [C.Viper]ー] vs ドドリア�ん [Sagat] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dcdw9pNsGc)

Viper is alot better than people think...keep an eye on her, Japanese people rated her garbage at first to top tier now.

Which version are you getting DepressionMoon?
PS3 and I'm ticked off at this game. I finally have a PS3 now and I can barely read the words on the screen. Everything is all sharp and bright. The words are too small as well. Capcom lied when they said it's for both casual and hardcore audiences. I've been losing to Seth about 20 times on the easiest difficulty. I can't seem to get my special move inputs right either. I could swear I'm doing what I can barely read on the screen (Kikoken) and it's not doing it. I'm like a master of Tekken and Smash, but I fail so badly at this.

[Roogle]

I had a dream I was VSing Roogle.

I was Rose and he was, I forget what he was.

But anyways! it ended up with me doing a normal throw, following up with a focus attack and a Reflect combo to finish him off.

Me: Rose is so kewl! I love Rose!
Roo: No, I love Rose, you two are just good friends.

I woke up all laugh-ish... this game is consuming me, bah!

It is always nice to dream. ;) I don't know how to play any other character besides Rose in the whole series, though.

[Lionx]

PS3 and I'm ticked off at this game. I finally have a PS3 now and I can barely read the words on the screen. Everything is all sharp and bright. The words are too small as well. Capcom lied when they said it's for both casual and hardcore audiences. I've been losing to Seth about 20 times on the easiest difficulty. I can't seem to get my special move inputs right either. I could swear I'm doing what I can barely read on the screen (Kikoken) and it's not doing it. I'm like a master of Tekken and Smash, but I fail so badly at this.

Lol damn feels like i am the only one getting it for PC...

What kind of TV are you using? If its not HDTV, you might have to adjust some of the settings.

Seth isnt that hard once you understand his tendencies...its hard to say, but he is much easier than say Gill or ST Akuma/Bison. Just use safer moves with less delay and he cant do most of his shannegians. Anti Airing jumps with him is a good guaranteed way to ensure damage too.

Try doing Challenge Mode and see how it goes...if you are using a pad it can be much harder to do inputs. I notice i cant do light punches into flash kick for Guile on a pad but i can on a stick...wtf?

[Madame Adequate]

PS3 and I'm ticked off at this game. I finally have a PS3 now and I can barely read the words on the screen. Everything is all sharp and bright. The words are too small as well. Capcom lied when they said it's for both casual and hardcore audiences. I've been losing to Seth about 20 times on the easiest difficulty. I can't seem to get my special move inputs right either. I could swear I'm doing what I can barely read on the screen (Kikoken) and it's not doing it. I'm like a master of Tekken and Smash, but I fail so badly at this.

Nah, that's nothing to do with casual/hardcore and everything to do with Capcom making a game which really harks back to the 90s. Including cheap-as-fuck last bosses :monster:

[Depression Moon]

PS3 and I'm ticked off at this game. I finally have a PS3 now and I can barely read the words on the screen. Everything is all sharp and bright. The words are too small as well. Capcom lied when they said it's for both casual and hardcore audiences. I've been losing to Seth about 20 times on the easiest difficulty. I can't seem to get my special move inputs right either. I could swear I'm doing what I can barely read on the screen (Kikoken) and it's not doing it. I'm like a master of Tekken and Smash, but I fail so badly at this.

Lol damn feels like i am the only one getting it for PC...

What kind of TV are you using? If its not HDTV, you might have to adjust some of the settings.

Seth isnt that hard once you understand his tendencies...its hard to say, but he is much easier than say Gill or ST Akuma/Bison. Just use safer moves with less delay and he cant do most of his shannegians. Anti Airing jumps with him is a good guaranteed way to ensure damage too.

Try doing Challenge Mode and see how it goes...if you are using a pad it can be much harder to do inputs. I notice i cant do light punches into flash kick for Guile on a pad but i can on a stick...wtf?

So you're having the same problems too. I've tried challenge mode and it seems easier to do some mves with the analog stick, but I still can't do Li's hadoken on purpose. There's like a 10% chance that she does it. I have a standard TV and do I set the adjustments from the game or the TV? The game only moves the HUD around.

I've managed to take slightly less beatings online now and I've beaten two people it could have been a third. I'm mainly using Sakura and C. Viper until I'm good enough to switch up. I still can't manage to do their ultras, but I can do their supers???

[Lionx]

So you're having the same problems too. I've tried challenge mode and it seems easier to do some mves with the analog stick, but I still can't do Li's hadoken on purpose. There's like a 10% chance that she does it. I have a standard TV and do I set the adjustments from the game or the TV? The game only moves the HUD around.

I've managed to take slightly less beatings online now and I've beaten two people it could have been a third. I'm mainly using Sakura and C. Viper until I'm good enough to switch up. I still can't manage to do their ultras, but I can do their supers???

I cant say for sure since i do not have a HDTV nor the game and only played it at a friend's house. There should be a setting in the game...or maybe your PS3? I dont know for sure...i know what you mean by how it looks weird since i played it at Gamestop on a normal TV. I dont know quite what to say though...

Maybe you need to hold back a little more or watch where you are pressing when you press forward for the Kikoken. I cant say for sure since i am not there but...what happens when you press forward? Do you punch(crouch punch)? Jump? Telling me that might help to see what you might be doing wrong.

C.Viper is one hard character to really use...but if you are winning...its working! XD

Ultras are the same motion as Supers, just using 3 punches or kicks(or the L1/L2 buttons on the PS3 pad).

The Supers can be comboed into via an attack string (Like Viper can do a crouching medium kick, into Thunder Knuckle, and cancel that into a Super just fine), but Ultras need to be juggled into. Meaning you need to say, hit the guy with a Flame kick in the corner, then do an Ultra when they are still reeling in the air and catch them.

The only advice i can give is to get a joystick for your PS3...that will eliminate alot of problems with Chun Li's Kikoken, and the Ultras...and sometimes random shoryukens.

[IronOcean]

i had a hard time doing super combos at first to so i moved the trip punch button over to the right triggers and it has been easier.....i use the D-Pad to conrtol them also i find it much easier to do the moves and i love playing online and beating people sakura they get so pissed when the little girl whoops up on them

[Depression Moon]

@ lionx yeah I usually do some kind of punch either it be mid low or hard. Getting an arcade stick isn't really reachable for me at the moment unless it's only like $40. I don't understand why the inputs are funny in this game. When I play Tekken I almost always do what I want to. Oh and I had thought i mentioned it in the above, no I don't have an HDTV.

[JKTrix]

Characters that use charging motions can be a little more difficult to use on a pad. The inputs in this game are loose enough so that you don't have to be super precise with it, but it can still be a problem if you're not used to it. The command for Kikoken is 'charge back, forward, punch'. To 'charge back', you hold the back direction for about two seconds. Then you go on with the rest of it. The game will allow you to roll between back, down and forward to do it after the charge, but you have to make sure you are only pressing forward at the end when you press 'punch'. If you only get a normal punch, you didn't charge back long enough. If you get a crouching punch, you pressed punch before you hit 'only forward'. If you jumped, you didn't press punch soon enough. It will come out if you hit diagonal up-forward and you happen to tap the punch button fast enough, but for the sake of accuracy you should focus on making sure you're only pressing forward.

If the 'actual' motion of charge back, forward punch is a little confusing for your thumb, try the 'charge back, half circle forward, punch' method.

And yeah, for the 3 punches and 3 kicks (which you need for Ultras), just put them on a shoulder trigger.

Can you do Chun's spinning bird kick or her super?

Also, I intend to get it for the PC as well.

[Depression Moon]

Nope I can't do Spinning bird kick on purpose did it a cou[le of times on accident. I think I was crouching for like five seconds before I did it. For Ultras and the shoulder trigger are you talking about the L1 and the R1's or R2'and L2's?

Oh and lionx I want to see if i can at least win one round against you. I have yet to see a Rose, Chun Li, or Cammy online. I'm tired of getting my ass whooped and one of the times that I did win I barely won because the time ended you couldn't even really tell who had more health. That was all luck.

Hey do you know how I can unlock the special costumes for the girls?

[JKTrix]

Hey do you know how I can unlock the special costumes for the girls?

$$$$$$$$$$$

Add me on PSN, JKTrix. I'll play you. I've probably spent the most time with Rose as far as 'learning' the game, but I have played with everybody at least a little bit. Maybe I can help with the chun li problems online! Do you have a headset?

[Depression Moon]

All right I'll play, I'm availabe from 11am to 7pm tommorow. I'm TheBlackTabard.
Edit: No, I don't have a headset.

[Lionx]

Nope I can't do Spinning bird kick on purpose did it a cou[le of times on accident. I think I was crouching for like five seconds before I did it. For Ultras and the shoulder trigger are you talking about the L1 and the R1's or R2'and L2's?

Oh and lionx I want to see if i can at least win one round against you. I have yet to see a Rose, Chun Li, or Cammy online. I'm tired of getting my ass whooped and one of the times that I did win I barely won because the time ended you couldn't even really tell who had more health. That was all luck.

Hey do you know how I can unlock the special costumes for the girls?

For the moves, are you using the PS3 controller? I really dont know whats wrong...try pressing up along with kick very fast in one smooth motion? >_< And for Ultras, the shoulder buttons should be L1 for 3 punches mapped, L2 for 3 Kicks mapped. The R1 is Fierce punch, and the R2 is Roundhouse.

I dont have PS3 >_< I would very much be happy to play with you otherwise. All my experience is at friend's houses, Youtube, reading up, and Arcade at a local college. If you record some matches i would definitely love to see them though. ^^ If you get the PC version this June, i would gladly play with you then...

I use Abel, and Gen, but i can play those characters as well decently...they are truly slept on.

[Markus. D]

I feel after long time playing I can only really properly play Cammy and Rose.
Also finally beat hardest mode on default rounds with Rose today n_n~ ... after 4 continues ,_,

While we're at it, what's everyone's favorite stage? I'm a big fan of Cruise Ship Stern (The music is catchy :o)

[Lionx]

Vietnam baby:

YouTube - Street Fighter IV OST - (Vietnam) Beautiful Bay Stage Theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4n14IuKcxM&feature=PlayList&p=9CADB3B7E9841BEB&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1)

You have to listen to them without the fighting sometimes to really appreciate them.

...what what..awha what what..!

EDIT: Unofficial Tier List:

http://fast1.onesite.com/capcom-unity.com/user/s-kill/large/sf4rankings.jpg?v=175200

Rose is bottom tier below even Vega! Wtf! Yet she can deal with Sagat better than Seth? o_O

[Markus. D]

Idiots... putting Rose at the bottom...

It was the same with the final GGXX tier list, putting one of the stronger characters at the very low, just because his core special move was unruly/unreliable.

[Lionx]

Its just an initial tier list though for the new characters that only been out for about a month. The Arcade characters are pretty much set unless we can find some more stuff about them, like how Viper jumped from Bottom Tier to high mid, and how Abel fell from mid to mid-low.

So far it seems accurate(Arcade-wise) for the most part...the top tier(with the exception of Seth i have no idea how he is that good), with Sagat being top dog, and Ryu/Gief following close afterwards, and Guile/Vega being the bottom of the heap.

I would give the new console characters another half a year or so before really taking their placements anything serious.



It was the same with the final GGXX tier list, putting one of the stronger characters at the very low, just because his core special move was unruly/unreliable.

Lol it depends, there are alot of factors in which to put that character in a lower position or not. For example Abel dropped from mid to mid low because his Change of Direction can be punished pretty easily upon blocked first hit. Things like that can hurt his game alot. However something like Fei Long's Command Grab, which at the moment everyone cant seem to land reliably or do anything consistantly damaging afterwards, is not an integral part of Fei Long's game and therefore would not affect him one bit despite how fumbling the move is.

It depends on how integral that move is really against the rest of the cast..for Abel its very integral, but for Fei Long? It was not part of his initial game to begin with so it doesnt matter that much.

[JKTrix]

Being 'low tier' isn't as game breaking as it is in other fighting games. From that list, Rose has about a 50/50 chance of beating anyone in the game. As a more-serious-than-not Rose player, I can definitely feel some of her weaknesses compared to other characters. But she's rarely at such a disadvantage that she will lose every time (against a similarly skilled player).

The 'tiers' seem pretty tight in this game, even though a few people have much better tools than others.

[Depression Moon]

I just got off from my PS3 and i ended my session on a bang too. I'm getting a little better here. I have more control now of my moves. I wish I could have recorded my last fight, because it was off the hook. I was fighting against a Ken and I was Viper. We were both trying to get the upper hand on each other we did our supers and ultras on each other but we both missed and when we were down to our last bit of health, we hit each other and got a double KO.

The next round round was just as intense. He had me in the corner a few times, but I crossed threw him to get out of it. I did my ultra but his super spinning kick just went threw it. When we were down at last bits of health when he mistakenly did a shoryuken, I followed with my Super and then hit him with a low punch.

Man, that felt great!

[Rase]

Suitemate rented the game (along with Onechabara Bikini Samurai Squad...), and after some serious play time I must say it's a thoroughly fun game. While I'm far from amazing I still find it to be a blast, and certainly look forward to getting in some more play time throughout the week. I still really like Guile (even if I can't do him justice), and I've grown fond of Sagat and Vega. I basically and just goofing around with everyone to try them out, and so far it's all been good. Also, my roommate loves El Fuerte and Dan because of their quirkiness.

[Depression Moon]

Mine's is rented too and I feel kind of bad now after I've worked hard to do well that I have to take this game back by Thursday. Really, Dan and el Fuerte, I didn't think really anybody liked those joke characters.

[Lionx]

Dan i heard is actually pretty good in this game, and El Fluerte is similar to Guy in the sense of his Dash moves with an uppercut so i find him to be underused and has potential. He also has an infinite thats hard to do lol.

YouTube - El Fuerte Daipan Loop x 9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFS3fIZGWhU&feature=related)

[Madame Adequate]

Everybody loves Dan, he's the best.

First I've heard of anyone liking El Fuerte though :o

[Lionx]

How can you hate the guy though? You might not like him but hate?

YouTube - IGN Montage - Street Fighter IV: El Fuerte (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfw6hvr4jm0)

This guy is awesome, i like a fighter who can cook!

[Rase]

Well the thing is, neither of us are hardcore in the slightest, so we just do the "who do I like and think is awesome" approach. He always likes the quirky characters in games, so how could he not love Dan and El Fuerte would be a better question.

[Depression Moon]

I don't like Dan because he can't fight. he struggles to throw someone over his shoulder, trips over his own feet, and his pathetic hadoken only shoots off for three feet before evaporating.

I'll stick with my badasses which are the girls and Dhaslim.

[Markus. D]

You're not meant to hate Dan :[...

Aside from Pocket Fighter, this is as powerful he has ever been lol.

[Rase]

Also, while I'm in here and trying to get the most from this game before it's returned, I present you experts a question: Is there a reliable way to evade/deal with Abel's Tornado Throw and Zangief/Seths Spinning Piledriver? When not playing a character with reliable range attacks (Ry/Ken) or speed (Vega) I tend to just get hit by these moves over and over when facing the CPU. The Tornado Throw especially, since as soon as I start getting up Abel can just grab me and do it again with no trouble. What am I missing here?

[JKTrix]

Also, while I'm in here and trying to get the most from this game before it's returned, I present you experts a question: Is there a reliable way to evade/deal with Abel's Tornado Throw and Zangief/Seths Spinning Piledriver? When not playing a character with reliable range attacks (Ry/Ken) or speed (Vega) I tend to just get hit by these moves over and over when facing the CPU. The Tornado Throw especially, since as soon as I start getting up Abel can just grab me and do it again with no trouble. What am I missing here?

If you're not lying on the ground, just try to stay away from them. Poke and run with your longest range melee attacks. You can't break command throws here, which is something that was really hard for me to come to grips with.

When lying on the ground, your best bet would to be to try to do a 'reversal' attack. That is, doing one of your special moves as soon as you get up before they have the opportunity to do anything (You will see 'Reversal' come up on the screen if it's done properly--can also do it after blocking). If the special move you pick is too slow, the throw will beat it. Usually it's better for you to use an EX move, or a Super or Ultra since those tend to 'execute' faster than their normal versions.

[Lionx]

Abel's Tornado Throw has two properties, the normal version is unthrowable, and the EX one is unhittable(yet throwable). So its a 50/50 for him everytime he gets into your face. I know that i used Normal Tornado Throw and tossed Zangief out of his Ultra because i know one dude liked to use his SPD. I also EX Tornado Throw Ryu out of his Ultra before too. Shut that crap down lol.

A way to counter is to Jump up really fast (not all the time, else you eat Falling Skies) or backdash. I say backdash because in SFIV, backdashing has invincible frames upon startup. Its little but its enough for you to gtfo. If you're in the corner, then its 50/50 for both of you upon wakeup.

Usually an Uppercut can break those through very well, however if you arent a shoto, and is like say Gen's uppercut, you might have trouble with it. Best to do is to actually know how the opponent plays based on the visual cues and things that they do and try to counter/guess. Against Zangief its alot harder to just jump away in this game...so its about how you perceive the opponent will do.

If its against the CPU just stay the hell back like JKTrix said and keep using long ranged pokes.

[Rase]

Alright, gracias you two. I'll definitely give those ideas some tries later tonight.

[SuperMillionaire]

You know, the characters now have English voices.

Also, has anyone unlocked Gouken? He is the brother of Akuma and the master of Ryu and Ken. He as widely believed to be dead, as Akuma supposedly killed him, but it turns out that he's alive. Has anyone got to play as him yet?

[DK]

Gouken is easy as crap to unlock, I actually did the unlock requirements for him as my first play as Akuma after unlocking him only to find you need to beat the game with him once before you can actually do the path to unlock Gouken. >;( Only given him a cursory playthrough though, I thought he was alright but didn't really grab me, my friend Az reckons he is a hax bastard though so. Was happy that someone in the game had the Shin Shoryuken though, wish that was Ryu's ultra instead.

Anyway yeah after playing this for a fair while, my random thoughts to throw out about this game are:

Seth definitely isn't as annoying as I'd heard him made out to be. The first time I played him I dealt with him Perfect first round and then about 75% health left in the second and had no idea what the fuss was about. Gave me more trouble second time round when I was using Ryu but still not all that bad. Maybe the copy i've been playing is just glitched but Rufus far and away is the most annoying cheapass hax :bou::bou::bou::bou: in the game for mine, hate him with a burning passion.

think it was Trix who said the charge attacks are loose on this game, have to say I greatly disagree, have found the charge timing to be fairly ridiculous on occasions, although I have also been playing a lot of Battle Fantasista lately as well and charge attacks on that are easy as shiet so that may have something to do with it. But yeah trying to play as Chun-Li or M.Bison in this game makes me weep. Seth with Bison was a nightmare, that I will concede.

Also, Dan is an irrefutable badman and clearly the strongest fighter in the history of Steet Fighter. Anybody who disagrees is wrong. No, no. You're wrong. Get out of this thread now. Super Taunting into Rose's ultra is probably one of my favourite moments of SFIV so far. OYAJIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!

[Depression Moon]

I have to get this game again. I wonder when any new tournaments are coming up. YouTube - SF4 International Exhibition 2009 - Iyo vs Pungko (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-t6SbHGFrs&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstreetfighterdojo.com%2Fsf4%2Ftournament%2Fstreet_fighter_4_world_championships_20 09.html&feature=player_embedded)


And I don't see how Dan is the strongest in the series when he can't even walk straight.

[Dreddz]

Also, has anyone unlocked Gouken? He is the brother of Akuma and the master of Ryu and Ken. He as widely believed to be dead, as Akuma supposedly killed him, but it turns out that he's alive. Has anyone got to play as him yet?
Both Akuma and Gouken are easy to unlock if you set it to 1-round matches and set it to easy. I don't even play much Street Fighter anymore and I managed to get them easy. I think Gouken is very interesting to use with his variations on Ryu and Kens move list but I haven't played enough of him. I actually only played him once to finish his story and that was about it.

I really should start playing some more SFIV.

[DK]

You have to set it to 1 round matches to unlock them in the first place IIRC.

[Lionx]

Lol i went to that International Tournament. It was hella hype! :D And its Poongko..D: Though its pronounced Pungko.

DK : What you need to do is do a back throw, then do the Ultra right after. Its that easy..>_> You can set so many things up because people will be afraid to be near you once you get an Ultra since one grab = huge damage. Gouken however isn't as Hax as Sagat or Ryu though...those guys are top for sure.

Also:

YouTube - Seth's 29 Hit Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zixrWxOzzms&feature=channel_page)

Poongko in the Korean Nationals, playing like its a Combo Exhibition. He was truly ahead of everyone else in Korea although last Saturday it shows he still got alot to go compared to the USA and Japan. He is no pushover though, hella offensive.

Whole Match: YouTube - SF4: Poongko (Ry/Se) vs ? (Ry) - Korea National Tournament (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gq35N7vanY&feature=channel_page)

--------

You guys also need to see Daigo's setups and predictions...truly 'psychic'. I thought it was WTF when i saw it in real time, but thinking back after the event was over...its just classic stuff. He baited that hard punch so well, hence the missed uppercut at first...it was no mistake.

YouTube - Daigo psychic dragon punch into full screen super! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gq1hm5DY4w)

This is truly oldschool...taking basic Street Fighter II stuff into SFIV.

For example: YouTube - Daigo vs. Sirlin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3mHP575NOk&feature=related)

Just goes to show how the basics you learn are more important than flashiness. All those uppercuts thought ahead so well...

[SuperMillionaire]

Also, has anyone unlocked Gouken? He is the brother of Akuma and the master of Ryu and Ken. He as widely believed to be , as Akuma supposedly killed him, but it turns out that he's alive. Has anyone got to play as him yet?
Both Akuma and Gouken are easy to unlock if you set it to 1-round matches and set it to easy. I don't even play much Street Fighter anymore and I managed to get them easy. I think Gouken is very interesting to use with his variations on Ryu and Kens move list but I haven't played enough of him. I actually only played him once to finish his story and that was about it.

I really should start playing some more SFIV.

I've seen videos of him in action. He's even bigger in size than Akuma.

[Depression Moon]

I can't take it anymore. I have to play this again and i swear I'm going to be the best C. Viper player in the world before I die.


Also, what the hell happened at the end of this?
YouTube - Street Fighter 4 Viewtiful Ryan (Abel) Vs H1R0 (Sakura) 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iowkhBbwihg)

[Rase]

I'm no expert, but I believe Abel's Ultra takes a few frames to actually execute after it starts. He is not invincible at this time, so the Sakura player was able to enter the combo for her Ultra when Abel's began (but before he was invincible) and finish it before he actually hit her, canceling it out.

[Madame Adequate]

Pretty sure Rase is right on that count. Sakura got her hit in before Abel did, and he wasn't invincible right then.

Must have sucked hard for the Abel dude to see that happen xD

[Depression Moon]

The screen seemed to had just jumped though.

[JKTrix]

When someone does an Ultra, or a Super for that matter, the screen pauses for a while but it still reads your inputs. So while the screen is doing its dramatic pause, you can mash the hell out of your own Ultra so as soon as the pause finishes, yours will come out. It is a pretty good tactic for most people to counter someone else's Ultra with your own Ultra, because oftentimes whoever did their ultra *last* will win. Depending on how quickly it executes.

This is one reason why Rose's Ultra is so dangerous, for situations like this. Most ultras give you 'super armor' during their execution, but most Ultras also have 'armor breaking' properties to them.

Something to consider!
--------------------------------------------------

So, the Update. I haven't bothered (and probably won't for a while) with the actual fighting of the tournament mode, but I've checked out the Replay features of both the PS3 and 360 version. As far as function, the 360's version is by far superior.
Here's what the 360 replay allows you to do:
-Slow down the action
-View each player's inputs
-View each other's Attack Data (hit damage, combo damage, that kind of stuff)
-Save Replays

PS3 version:
-You can make one of 3 votes twice a second, up to 99 times: 'Funny, Awesome or Beautiful'. The icons are just up on screen as the replay goes on, and you see what other people have voted.

It's kind of pointless, but also kind of fun. I really don't know why they split the features like that--both versions could have had all of those features. The 360's version is functionally better because you can save the replays to watch whenever you want, even when not online, and it would be easier if you wanted to learn some things from a particular replay when you can slow down and see the inputs as well. Also, when I tried it out for the first time yesterday, the PSN wouldn't even let me download the replays at all, while the other version was completely flawless. PSN seems to be working fine today though.

This has gotten me 'back' into Street Fighter, since I took a break because school was getting kind of rough :P See how long that lasts...

[Depression Moon]

Their's a replay feature for 360? Why isn't there one for PS3. That's really unfair. I am itching to send video of some of my game footage and it would probably be easier if I did that. I have the championship mode too, but I didnt see any voting thing.

I'm still having prolems with the analog stick and d-pad not being able to get out certain moves correctly all the time like Balrog's rush, and Chun li's super and ultras.

[JKTrix]

There is a replay feature for the PS3, but all you can do with it is look at it and do a useless 'vote' thing while it's playing. You can't save it, slow it down, or look at the inputs like you can on the 360.

The 'voting' comes up when you look at someone else's replays.

[Lionx]

I heard from the update Fei Long's Chicken Wing comes out slower but has more invincibility frames now to make it so they cant infinite Abel and Seth. But i dont know other than that D:

Announcement on May 1st about an announcement for the PC version, cant wait.

[Depression Moon]

Fei Long has an attack called Chicken Wing? That's pretty funny

There is a replay feature for the PS3, but all you can do with it is look at it and do a useless 'vote' thing while it's playing. You can't save it, slow it down, or look at the inputs like you can on the 360.

The 'voting' comes up when you look at someone else's replays.

This is probably old, but you can make replays on PS3 since i have many friends with replays on there.

Here's my video that I recorded. It's quite difficult playing since since I chipped my controller a little.
YouTube - Street Fighter IV Replay Nmbr2Pencil (Gen) Vs Taptapa (C Viper) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YwtToRu2Q8)

[Lionx]

Lol were you the viper?

[Depression Moon]

yep. I also had a mirror match with a dhalsim the other day. It was kind of laggy, but the fight was great. We ended up getting a double ko at the final round. Whish I could've recorded it. Oh and sorry about video it's hard trying to hold the camera still for that length of time.

[Lionx]

Lol its cool, i like the JC combo at the end, its pretty wicked.

[Vyk]

I love this game. I've always been a pretty big fan of Street Fighter. And owned, or at least played, something from every series except 3. I think the Alphas were probably my favorite, even above the new HD Remix. But 4 goes a little beyond all that. I've watched a buncha videos on the ins and outs of its mechanics. I never learned so much about other Street Fighters so up until now I've just been a casual street fighter. Granted I coulda learned the depths of any of them had I searched out the resources, but this just happened to be the one. So I'm bonded to it. I've always felt a special bond with Street Fighter so its nice to get that feeling back. Even if it doesn't have the insane cast roster that Alpha 3 and some of the Vs games ended up with. Can't wait to get my 360 back and get an arcade stick and get down to business

[Depression Moon]

Who do you play as?

Man I love this player fight I had early this morning. We were doing a best 4 out of 7 tourny thing with a 5 round set. This guy had a Rose Icon and set so I suspsected him to pick her, but instead he chose Fuerte who I can't stand. I chose my Viper first. he won that first one and second when I picked gouken, but that was a mistake. Third time I decided to pick Rose who I rarely use and I knocked him silly with her. It was a long and hectic match. After that he switched to Chun Li. I switched to Dhalsim. I annhilated him and next round I picked Rose again and he picked Li again. That fight was close too and the next one was my Viper again against his Fuerte again. I ended up losing that one and for the final match. He surprised me and picked Rose. i didn't have that much experience with her so I picked Dhalsim.

That last match was epic, I was dodging all his moves with Yoga Towers and frequent teleports. He couldn't really hit me, until I started getting nervous on the last round and did an ultra too late and got a face full of EX- Soul Spark.

This game can make you feel great and like a chump at times. Before I started playing against this guy I had lost 20 C matches in a row.

[Vyk]

Wow, sounds awesome. I've always been kind of a shoto-scrubb as they call it I guess. Everyone I've played offline has always liked Ken or Sagat, and I always liked Ryu. And excet for the original Street Fighter 2 I've beaten every game I've played on hardest difficulty eventually so I didn't think I was that terrible of a player. But recently I've come across DarkSydePhil's channel on YouTube and realized I know nothing of cross-ups, counters, technicals, let alone move priority or more advanced combos or cancels (or a good use for focus attacks in 4). In essence I'm not that good at all in the grand scheme of things. I learned moves. And went. That's going to change though

I think I'd like to master Cammy. She's pretty respectable, has a few simpler moves. Supposedly a lot of her moves have priority, or at least used to. But even if they don't she does have one huge advantage, is that she has a very small recovery time after a move so you don't get smacked in the face when you miss like always happens with an empty dragon punch lol

[Dreddz]

I've become pretty obsessed with this game over the last month. I went and checked my playtime yesterday and I'm now over 50hrs which is a lot considering the time I put into a game these days.

I've had a chance to try pretty much every character and get a good feel for them all. My main characters are still Akuma, Blanka and Guile but I like to throw in some Bison and Vega every now and then also. Gouken is also pretty deadly and has some huge damage potential if played right. I decided to drop Sagat though. I found I was being way too predictable with him and never stood a chance against high level players.

[Depression Moon]

I hate Blankas. Viper players basically have no chance in beating one because of his balls.

[Lionx]

^ Lol. You can punish Blanka Balls i think, with EX Seismo Hammer, then SJ forward into a Flame Kick to close the distance right away. At least thats what i see in my head. Also if you can judge the distance right i dont think you need an EX Seismo, but i say that because i dont use Viper and i don't know the normal Seismo distances as clear(though i know EX has some limited tracking ability).

[Vyk]

Dropping Sagat was probably a good idea. People seem to think he's over powered in this game (which is probably true from what I've seen) so a lot of people have developed anti-Sagat strategies which can be hard to get around

I dunno what to say about Blanka and the ball. Lionx might be right. I would suggest having a friend do balls at you constantly and test out Viper's moves. She might have a standard attack that has priority. Or you could practice focus attacking through it and maybe catching him out of the air that way. I dunno if his ball is a focus breaker or not

[Lionx]

People overthink too much on Sagat. He is ranked the best among the cast but the game in general is pretty balanced. He is definitely beatable, so pick the character you want(even Dan in this one), dont care what other people say. Whatever is most comfortable is the right choice.

You should look at some of these:

Basics: YouTube - Street Fighter 4 Tutorials - Ep. 1 - The Combo System (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o20Fwj6DtX4)
Focus: YouTube - Street Fighter 4 Tutorials - Ep. 2 - The Focus System (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nivXAQ4VvSk&feature=related)

Go to Training Mode, and record the dummy to do Blanka Ball over and over at you. If you block the ball i think you can punish with what i said above. If you spam crouching Light Punches it might be able to beat out Blanka Balls with the right timing, resetting his position. Her Standing Jab however is slower so i don't recommend that if you are spamming it to poke out an anticipated ball. Don't Focus, it breaks right through it.

However if you anticipate a Vertical or Rainbow ball, you can Focus those, then get a free combo after.

From what i read, its an even matchup. You can do it!

[Lionx]

Sorry for double post, but benchmark is up! Are you ready? I know i am o_o

Street Fighter 4 PC Benchmark Test Released - Shacknews - PC Games, PlayStation, Xbox 360 and Wii video game news, previews and downloads (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/59143)

[IronOcean]

can someone explain to me how the F to do cancels i am just not getting it

[Roogle]

To cancel a special move from a normal move, you simply perform the special move while your character is executing the normal move. In other words, you do things while you're doing things to cancel into other attacks or perform links.

[IronOcean]

damn so you have to move pretty fast

[Vyk]

Most of them require you to do it early on in their attack animation for whatever move you were pulling off. Especially for fierce moves that do multiple hits. I don't think you can cancel into anything else if you've hit twice with a move. Fast indeed. You pretty much have to motion them quickly and consecutively. Usually just praying the first move connected, 'cause once you start up your super or ultra and they're blocking, its too late and you're pretty screwed

[Depression Moon]

People overthink too much on Sagat. He is ranked the best among the cast but the game in general is pretty balanced. He is definitely beatable, so pick the character you want(even Dan in this one), dont care what other people say. Whatever is most comfortable is the right choice.

You should look at some of these:

Basics: YouTube - Street Fighter 4 Tutorials - Ep. 1 - The Combo System (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o20Fwj6DtX4)
Focus: YouTube - Street Fighter 4 Tutorials - Ep. 2 - The Focus System (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nivXAQ4VvSk&feature=related)

Go to Training Mode, and record the dummy to do Blanka Ball over and over at you. If you block the ball i think you can punish with what i said above. If you spam crouching Light Punches it might be able to beat out Blanka Balls with the right timing, resetting his position. Her Standing Jab however is slower so i don't recommend that if you are spamming it to poke out an anticipated ball. Don't Focus, it breaks right through it.

However if you anticipate a Vertical or Rainbow ball, you can Focus those, then get a free combo after.

From what i read, its an even matchup. You can do it!

That duck and punch thing isn't reliable it stops him if I time it right, I couldn't find anything to beat the ex ball though not even Ex-seismo. Ducking and jab is definitely not that reliable when you're in the heat of battle and he just suddenly does one when you don't expect it. I don't know about your claim about Dan, I've tried him a few in ranked and CE, he takes damage like Viper and his attacks are just as weak for a hadoken user who's not fast.

[Lionx]

I dont mean beat it outright but punish a blocked one. Many people will get hit by random Blanka balls in which is not that hard to avoid if you know they are charging. If you mean pre-emptively know when its coming to stop you just have to know when they are charging.

I just read up some strats and they said the same thing, punish a blocked ball with EX/MP/FP Seismo. If its a vertical ball then it has to be EX Seismo, and Rainbow Balls are Focus Attacks.

Again i don't think Viper has anything that outright beats a Blanka ball while its in motion. Punishing one after a block is easy though.

[SuperMillionaire]

Has anyone downloaded alternate costumes for the characters? Each character now has an alternate costume.

[Depression Moon]

What are you talking about that was old news way old. and you could see in the video I posted that I have one.

[SuperMillionaire]

Oops, I didn't know that...

[Polnareff]

I have Live now and this game, so add me if you wish. Gamertag is PhoenixBrite. Don't expect much outta me though 'cause while I'm somewhat (emphasis on "somewhat") decent I have to play with this crappy 360 controller. ;_;

[Rostum]

PC version comes out in Australia tomorrow. :bounce:

[Lionx]

Game is out in the USA tomorrow, i will add anyone that wishes me to add them here :)

[Wolf Kanno]

Finally got a chance to play some more of this the other day, really love the system and the focus attacks, though I'm going to need to invest in an arcade stick cause the console controllers are just not working for me. Its a pain to get off Ultras and supers....

I'm out of practice, lost quite a bit to M. Bison and Sagat. Seth is a pain too but he doesn't seem as bad as Gil or Boss Mode Bison from Alpha 3.

[Depression Moon]

Did you say who you main as? Viper is getting too frustrating for me with my chipped PS3 controller. Most of the time when I try to do ultras and supers with her I get hammers. I switched to Rose who I found to be a lot easier to spam Ultras with.

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm a Shoto-scrub, but I also play as Blanka and I enjoy Viper despite her feeling a bit out of place (she's more like a KoF character than SF). I hope to learn Fuego cause he seems to be a nastier alternative to Vega. I also wish to relearn M. Bison. I used him back in the day but he became a bit too complicated in the Alpha series. I also hope to relearn Gen. :love:

My main issue is holding the three punch buttons down for the Ultras. Doing it manually is awkward and so is using the L1 button. I don't really want to change the controller setting but handicapping myself by not using Ultras has not been a pleasant experience...

[Lionx]

Lionxie is my gamertag on Games on Windows Live. Add me if you got the PC version :)