The 'WATCHMEN' Movie thread (MARK YOUR SPOILERS!)

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

hmm so i saw this movie yesterday and suffice to say...

it wasnt too bad...Obviously stuff had to be cut out but im more excited about the 3 hour directors cut lol! for a 2hr 40min movie i didnt feel like it dragged on.

Now i wasnt as miffed about the ending...but i only read the graphic novel about twice when the first teaser came out so i maybe not as fussed about it as say a general fanboy or whatever but they go to a similar conclusion its just how the got there that was different...Dr Manhatten bombs instead of the squid...

hmm i dont remember all them having super strength

Rorschach in movie form is just as awesome in the GN btw! Jeffrey Dean Morgan stood out as the Comedian too!

Malin Ackerman is teh hottness lol!

[The Man]

I haven't seen the film yet, but I can definitely see why they felt it necessary to change certain details of the ending, just because they depended upon a number of extraneous plot threads to make even the smallest fragment of sense (granted, it's still pretty much out of left field). Including those plot threads would've added at least another half hour to the running time, and I can't even really think of an elegant way it could've been done.

That said, YouTube - Watchmen - Hitler finds out about new Watchmen ending (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhHema5PNg) for great lulz.

anyway I'll probably go see it tomorrow (well, today) or sometime this weekend.

[Aurey]

I'm going to see it tomorrow, I'm hoping that a matinee won't have as many fanboys (they only go out at night I hear). I only got around to reading the novel last weekend, so I'm pretty excited although not really expecting anything great or anything horrible.

I don't get the new ending, I mean I'm not surprised they switched it, but uh, I guess I just have to see it to understand really.

[Darkswordofchaos]

I saw it last night it was pretty good. i though all of the heros were played really weel especially Rorschach

[JKTrix]

I wouldn't stress about the ending too much. The end result is entirely the same, how they got there is different. Things edited out of course.

I found it amusing that with all the gore and penis, they couldn't show someone vomiting.

[Ouch!]

I was immensely satisfied with the movie, to be honest. I agree with JKTrix's assessment of the changes to the end: although they changed how they got there, the result was ultimately unmodified. To keep the original ending, they would have had to add all the previously mentioned subplots for it to make sense, and given that the movie was already two hours and forty-three minutes long, I can understand the resistance to such a thing.

Otherwise, I thought they did an amazing job of keeping true to the source material; when a few scenes stick out at you as "oh man, that was actually a panel from the graphic novel!" then you know they've done a good job of keeping faithful.

I highly recommend the film, but I recommend reading Watchmen beforehand. Seems it's getting poor reviews due largely to the story-telling, but I think that's probably because most of the negative reviews I've read seem to be by people unfamiliar with the source material itself.

[Winter Nights]

Overall, I liked it, but I had issues with it. The was several scenes that had pacing issues, requiring you to read the book to get how they got there. Regardless of the fact there is a book, that makes for bad story-telling. Hopefully, the director's cut fixes this issue.

I had issues with the music choices. Most of the choices worked, but some, like the music in the Owlship sex scene, made the movie awkward, unintentionally prompting laughs from the audience.

I also had issues with the ending. Not because it's different, though given how many new scenes were added to include the energy crisis subplot, I don't see why they couldn't have done it. But, my real issue is that the new ending doesn't work, realistically. The original ending worked, because the attack was from an outside force. But Dr. Manhattan was an American citizen that, just two days prior, the rest of the world perceived as a god-like force protecting the U.S. Even if he did attack America, as well, that fact isn't gonna make the rest of the world sympathize with America. They would likely blame America for creating him and causing the mess.

The rest of the film I was cool with, pacing issues and all, but the ending annoyed me.

[Magixion]

I really enjoyed the movie. Though, the subtle changes were there, they did not adversely affect the movie. Granted, a few friends I went with had not read the graphic novel, so I had to fill them in a bit on what happened. Though my friends hadn't read the graphic novel, they all really enjoyed it as well. I felt the music went really well with it too. Even you did chuckle a few times, I think it was necessary to have a bit of humor in there to lighten the mood and remind people it is still a super hero movie and should not be taken -too- seriously.

[Winter Nights]

That kinda undermines the whole point of "Watchmen", though.

[The Man]

I didn't really mind the major change to the ending; if you don't buy that then you don't buy the entire premise behind the movie Fail-Safe either. The music choices didn't really bother me all that much either, apart from that awful cover of Desolation Row; nearly all the songs used in the film were mentioned somewhere in the text, with the exception of 99 Luftballoons, which was really the only one of those I could find to be "questionable"; even then, it would've been much less so had it not been humorously featured in a recent episode of 30 Rock, which is hardly the director's fault.

The changes that irked me by the most were in chapter six of the original graphic novel, which explains Rorschach's origin story. Having Rorschach smash the guy's head in with a meat cleaver gives a completely different effect to the original where he lit the whole house on fire, and his whole following monologue to the psychiatrist was ruined as well (though maybe that'll be restored in the director's cut, but a substantial portion of the literary symbolism would be missing anyway). There were all kinds of little changes like that throughout the film, a lot of which I thought rather missed the subtlety of the original.

Despite that I enjoyed it and will probably even go see it again - it's probably the best adaptation we could have hoped for out of Hollywood these days - but it's not the 10/10 film it could have been. It's probably a 7/10 at best.

[rubah]

I didn't enjoy the first half hour or so because it was all character development and I didn't follow all of it, but after they got through that rough spot and we heard someone's thoughts other than rorschach's, I liked it better. I reaaaaaaally liked Night Owl :D

The music was kinda weird, but I appreciated its role in setting the time frame. It just highlights just how much classic rock/70s music I know compared to contemporary stuff :(

[Shoeberto]

I thought it was really great, but admittedly haven't read the graphic novel to compare to. It seems to play an interesting counter-point to Batman Begins/TDK. In the Nolan Batman movies, we see standard superhero moral sets being played out in a gritty, realistic world, where with the watchmen it's the other way around - a gritty, realistic moral set in a standard superhero world. There's a lot of food for thought and I'm most definitely going to have to read the book to understand the whole story better.

[edczxcvbnm]

I think they need to cut more here and there and extend more here and there. Add a line of dialog here and there when there was none. Transitioning things a bit better would have help a lot also. I also felt there was a lot of wasted time that could have been better used to add more dialog in other scenes.

I felt the first half of the movie was rather awkward but once things turned away from mars it all started to come together a bit better. Also why was the cat thing there(I don't know how to spell its name and I am not looking it up)? Did I miss the line of dialog about genetic engineering?

I also thought the fights were a bit over the top and crazy for people with no real super powers. That said I did enjoy it.

[Winter Nights]

Yeah, the explanation of Bubastis relates to the original ending, so now she's just randomly there for no reason other than having a CGI lynx in the mix.

Weird question though. Did anyone else's audience burst into laughter during the attempted rape of Sally Jupiter? That was the most awkward moment of the entire movie for me. It wasn't the whole audience, but a large portion of people just started laughing hysterically. Smurfing college towns...

[Darkswordofchaos]

lol. when i saw it every one in the theater burst into a great big aplause whenThat black dud comes up to Rorschach in prison and tries to shank him but gets a broken hand and gets his face fried. my favorite part

[Magixion]

More people started laughing in my theater when you see Doc Manhattan's man baggage for the first time.

[Brandless Goods]

I'm not stuck in here with you guys. You're stuck in here with me!

Anyway. Decent movie. More or less what I expected. Holy :skull::skull::skull::skull: too much blood and gore. Wow. Hard time watching. Is this what they show in the theater these days? And that sex scene. I swear I thought they accidentally switched the movie over to porntube.com or something. I think they over did it a little bit.

[edczxcvbnm]

I think it is funny how many people mention the violence and sex in the movie but I found that stuff to be very underwhelming and laughable XD It was so over the top I just couldn't take it seriously at all.

[Mercen-X]

I neglected to warn my girlfriend on Friday that this movie was Rated R. She was really surprised by the rape-attempt, violence, and sex (though that scene had her giggling awkwardly)... I'm gonna own it when it comes out.
To keep the original ending, they would have had to add all the previously mentioned subplots for it to make sense, and given that the movie was already two hours and forty-three minutes long, I can understand the resistence to such a thing.

"oh man, that was actually a panel from the graphic novel!"I pretty much think those subplots were added to the comic to extend its run.

As for the "Oh man" moments, I had quite a few of those myself.


That kinda undermines the whole point of "Watchmen", though.That's why there's a director's cut. People aren't able to sit in a theater for 2 1/2 hours with total strangers to watch a movie that gets darker and grittier as you move along. With no breaks in between, people start to come out of their awe-trance and wonder why they're supposed to be interested in this film. I'm currently taking a script-writing class, so I'd know and I'll tell you, the fact it's an entirely separate medium drastically effects the outcome. Hell, one of the writers of the original comic cursed it and swore he'd never watch it 'cause it'd never be able to capture the symbolism contained within the panels.


I also thought the fights were a bit over the top and crazy for people with no real super powers.
I had to figure these people were able to use their muscles in a different way... sending people flying with a punch, leaping 10 feet through the air, breaking walls with their fists...

[rubah]

Mercen-X, does your script writing class tell why directors stopped using intermissions? It seems like a tool that would be really useful with the ages long movies that have been released recently.

My theater wolfwhistled <spoilers>nakie nite owl standing wistfully in front of his suit</spoilers>

[Darkswordofchaos]

there was an intemition in grind house and in kung-POW!!!

[Del Murder]

The original ending worked, because the attack was from an outside force. But Dr. Manhattan was an American citizen that, just two days prior, the rest of the world perceived as a god-like force protecting the U.S. Even if he did attack America, as well, that fact isn't gonna make the rest of the world sympathize with America. They would likely blame America for creating him and causing the mess.

Yeah, I agree with that. It didn't make much sense to me that the world would come together under the threat by Dr. Manhattan. He was created by the US and worked for them for years. This was their mistake. If anything this should cause animosity towards the US even more.

I liked the movie and I think it was adapted really well. It definitely helped to read the novel beforehand.

Man, what a dark outlook on morality though.

[Mercen-X]

Yeah. How they reached the ending doesn't really work, but ah hell, I don't really know how the world would have reacted during the Cold War.

Mercen-X, does your script-writing class tell why directors stopped using intermissions? It seems like a tool that would be really useful with the ages long movies that have been released recently.
Haven't come to that point. I'll bring it up in class and find out.

By the way... as to your following statement, you should really hit the SPOILER BUTTON as opposed to trying to type it out.

[Del Murder]

Or just use BB code instead of HTML.

[Depression Moon]

I thought it was a good film overall, but I thought I should have gave myself a little time before seeing it. I saw it just after a week I finished reading the book. The movie felt short to me probably because I was wondering the whole if they were going to put in this part and this part. I thought they could have improved on the tragedy of Manhattan and I frankly thought overall it should have been two films. I don't believe that the audience not familiar to the book didn't quite get the emotion I had when I had just finished reading the book for the 1st time a week ago.
I also thought they were going to take this opportunity to fix a couple of mistakes from the book in the film like Owl's and Laurie's sex scenes. The first two occur way to frequently one after another and it was the same in the film, they made it a little more fun I guess, but I didn't like it. Dr. Manhattan's Mars talk with Laurie seemed rush, a lot of the movie did and I was looking forward to Laurie sprawling on the ground for air, but they didn't put that in. it was a little disappointing. If it was two films I think it would have gave that same since of epic and passion. The opening credits were great.

All in all I give it a 7.5

[Darkswordofchaos]

Yeah, I agree with that. It didn't make much sense to me that the world would come together under the threat by Dr. Manhattan. He was created by the US and worked for them for years. This was their mistake. If anything this should cause animosity towards the US even more.


I Thought about this and i came to the conclusion that since all the other contries hated MR. M, that they thought since he attacked america that we would try to kill him and they want him dead to cause if he can blow us up he can blow them up, plus all the trouble hes already caused them. they would use this to their advantage and join us to deafeat a mutal enemy.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend

[Winter Nights]

Yeah, I agree with that. It didn't make much sense to me that the world would come together under the threat by Dr. Manhattan. He was created by the US and worked for them for years. This was their mistake. If anything this should cause animosity towards the US even more.


I Thought about this and i came to the conclusion that since all the other contries hated MR. M, that they thought since he attacked america that we would try to kill him and they want him dead to cause if he can blow us up he can blow them up, plus all the trouble hes already caused them. they would use this to their advantage and join us to deafeat a mutal enemy.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend

That's true, but it would in no way bring a final end of the war, like Adrien wanted. At least with the alien invasion scenario, while the possibility remained that the war would eventually resurface, mankind was coming together as a whole prepare for something worse than themselves. Aliens would be a whole new ballgame, that would make each country's issues seem quite petty. The movie ends with mankind uniting to deal with what could only really be seen as a mess America made, as far as they know anyway. The hatred would re-build faster and the problem would restart within a few years, most like.

I really had no problems with them changing the ending due to time issues, as long as they got the theme of the ending right. But, with several new bits added to build to the new ending, plus the fact that the ending feels safer but not-so-well planned, I'm starting to think that Snyder knew the original ending would be pretty out there for the average viewer and just chickened out.

[The Man]

Dr Manhattan is definitely "something worse than themselves" as well though; it's pretty clearly spelled out that he has Godlike powers. Any criticisms the world would have about America would be pretty much neutralised by the fact that we lost several of our largest cities, I feel.

As regards the comment about morality - yeah, pretty much. Moore clearly intends to highlight the absurdity of both utilitarian and ontological moralities when both are taken to fundamentalist-like extremes - Adrian is willing to kill millions in order to avert the chance of nuclear war, Rorschach is willing to risk further hostilities in order to satisfy his desires that evildoers be further punished. While this could incidentally be seen as a betrayal of Rorschach's principles due to the fact that he was okay with Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I think it's worth pointing out that Truman a) was in a position of elected authority, unlike Veidt, and b) was acting fully aboveboard, with the world's complete knowledge. Although I do have other issues with Truman's action as well, I find no contradiction here, and Rorschach is probably the character whose actions in the GN/film offend conventional morality the least, with the possible exceptions of Nite Owl/Silk Spectre.

[Winter Nights]

Dr Manhattan is definitely "something worse than themselves" as well though; it's pretty clearly spelled out that he has Godlike powers. Any criticisms the world would have about America would be pretty much neutralised by the fact that we lost several of our largest cities, I feel.

Possibly, but given that he is an American citizen, whose powers were created in an American government research facility and has spent the last 20 years keeping all of America's enemies at bay through fear, only to have America drive him away over a cancer scare... I kinda doubt anyone would be sympathetic to America, as it would likely be seen as America breeding the ultimate attack dog, not bothering to put it on a chain, and then beating it until it trusts no one.

[The Man]

In the post-Bush era it definitely would be, but in the Eighties most of the world didn't seem to hate America that much. Then again this is an alternate Eighties when Nixon had been president for 16+ years, but still.

[Winter Nights]

That's the thing, though. It always seemed to me, while reading the comic again and again in the last 8 years, that the alternate reality of Nixon using The Comedian and Doc Manhattan to stay in office and keep the rest of the world afraid of America would bring about a similar, if not worse, type of hatred from the rest of the world. Which is most obvious by the fact that, while the real Cold War was still pretty smurfing bad at times, the Cold War of the comic was much worse, in that nuclear apocalypse was inevitable, the moment Doc Manhattan was taken out of the picture.

EDIT: YouTube - Saturday Morning Watchmen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w)

[The Man]

That certainly is a possibility. Honestly though, I think it's difficult to say for certain the world would react that way. If ten million of our people died, I think the rest of the world would be pretty sympathetic no matter the cause; they were immediately after 9/11 as well, and the CIA trained most of the mujahideen in Afghanistan as well, though that fact wasn't as widely publicised as the fact that Dr Manhattan was a US creation would've been. It's easy to forget that there was international goodwill after 9/11 because Bush squandered it so quickly, but it's an important fact to consider.

[Winter Nights]

True enough. I guess it would depend on what you think your own reaction would be in that circumstance, as to whether or not the ending works for you. Personally, if I was a Russian politician during something like that, my gut reaction would be to hold America partially, if not equally responsible, for the reasons I gave above. But, someone else in those shoes might not.

[The Man]

I'd probably hold America partially responsible, but nowhere near enough to start a nuclear war with them. Then again I doubt I'd hold America responsible enough to start a nuclear war even if I thought they were completely responsible, so :monster:

[Ouch!]

I don't think whether or not the rest of the world is sympathetic to the United States matters at all, really. The point is that Dr. Manhattan has control over matter. I don't think anyone really would stop to point a finger when he appears to have just wiped several major cities completely off the map all across the globe simultaneously. The primary concern, I think, would be to unite against an overwhelming foe. When faced against something that can quite simply blink you out of existence and has no known weakness, I don't think anyone can afford to be stupid enough to hold grudges.

[Winter Nights]

I'd probably hold America partially responsible, but nowhere near enough to start a nuclear war with them. Then again I doubt I'd hold America responsible enough to start a nuclear war even if I thought they were completely responsible, so :monster:

I'm not really saying that Russia and America wouldn't put their differences aside to deal with the new problem. Right after a global attack like that, it would be the most obvious step. I just don't think it would last very long. Not that the books ending gave a definite solution for peace. But, as I said above, the movie's version leaves us with the world banding together to clean up "America's mess". Hostility would likely re-emerge far quicker in the movie's world, than in the book's, due to that alone. I just don't buy the supposed "smartest man in the world" seeing this as a definite solution. The book's version at least gave a chance, however slim, that the Cold War could be over. The movie's version left too much room for resurgence, by making the attacker someone of this world, god-like powers or not.

[Del Murder]

Yeah I agree completely with Autumn Rain. It would bring a temporary peace, but people forget things quickly.

[The Man]

True enough, but I honestly didn't get the certain impression that the supposed alien attack would have brought about a permanent peace either.

[Del Murder]

Well the point is that the alien attack is entirely foreign, while Doc was created by the US. Once people get over the initial shock that will be the crucial difference.

[Linus]

Just got back from the movie. I've never read the graphic novel.

The movie was epic. On par with any of the Lord of the Rings movies easily. Great music, casting, and pace in my opinion. The only gripe I had was the hitch that a few of you touched on already. The ending presumes peace comes about because there is a common world enemy in Dr. M. However, if he just goes to another solar system that same day, who the hell is gonna care about him any more? Russia would be back at the power struggle within a year in my opinion. But again. Alternate history, fictional work, blah blah. It's forgivable.

Rorschach was ShlupxAaronluvluv great, but my favorite character was actually Ozymandius.

Edit: Are you kidding me? I typed fl ipp in' and it turned into ShlupxAaronluvluv. You people are sick.

[The Man]

ShlupxAaronluvluv

wut.

[Linus]

This thread is now about flip pin' turning into ShlupxAaronluvluv. WTF.

[The Man]

When was that even installed? And why the hell did I never know about it?

[Linus]

Maybe this is all some part of great wager between Shlup and BoB to see who and when the first time "flip pin'" would actually be typed by someone.

WELL, IT'S OVER. I WIN.

[Shoeberto]

If I had to guess a time it was created, I would say around the time Napoleon Dynamite came out. Just a guess.

[rubah]

It's about as old as Chuck Norris, I think.

[The Man]

Looks like it's already been retired :(

also it's been typed before, see for instance here (http://forums.eyesonff.com/2578831-post1.html). And now that I've bothered searching it looks like there was an entire thread about it (http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-chat/118093-shlupxaaronluvluv.html) as well.

[Linus]

Well I haven't been here in ages so shut up. The Watchmen was awesome.

[Mercen-X]

I can't wait to see all of those annoying posts deleted. That was pointless.


The ending presumes peace comes about because there is a common world enemy in Dr. M. However, if he just goes to another solar system that same day, who the hell is gonna care about him any more? Russia would be back at the power struggle within a year in my opinion.


I was just this second thinking on this. If information is leaked to the U.S. government that Manhattan has moved to mars, they can spread propaganda that he is preparing something big enough to destroy the world in one strike. Maybe there's hope that this would keep the world on its toes.

[Depression Moon]

Didn't Snyder or someone else say that if the movie did well enough then he'll release an extended version during the Summer? I think that's a good idea since the movie lacked emotional attachment. There is too much in the novel to be covered in 2 and a half hours. Newcomers would be confused or overhwelmed by the events because they happened so quickly in the movie and I think they need to something about a couple of those song choices they put in. When it releases on DVD I hope they can step up on it.

[Del Murder]

I don't think newcomers who were overwhelmed by the two and a half hour version are going to be pacified by an extended version. That's a long time to be sitting in a theater.

[Fonzie]

I did not really enjoy it all. :(

[Depression Moon]

I don't think newcomers who were overwhelmed by the two and a half hour version are going to be pacified by an extended version. That's a long time to be sitting in a theater.
which is way I said I hope on the DVD it's extended or it would have been better if the movie was split into two.

[I Took the Red Pill]

I was very satisfied with the movie. I felt that what they cut out (the whole Shea comic book writer alien explosion thing would've been extremely difficult to explain within the timeframe of a normal movie) is for the most part understandable. I really liked how although they pretty much circumvented the whole Shea thing, and as a result, the relationship between the news vendor and Bernie, they kept in the image of them hugging at the time of the explosion. I thought that was pretty awesome. I'd just finished re-reading Watchmen a few days before, and was pleased to notice that a very good portion of the film was word-for-word from the novel. That was pretty awesome. All the characters looked pretty much identical to how they appeared in the comic, so that was pretty impressive (although doing casting by appearance for a comic is certainly less impressive than doing it for a regular novel, where the characters' appearances are largely up to the imagination of the reader). I think that Moore, if he ever sees the film (probably not) would be satisfied with the faithfulness of the adaption. I would like to see his reaction to the changing around of the details of the ending, however :p.

[The Man]

Now that I've had about a week to digest my thoughts, I think my single biggest gripe is with the removal (well, truncation) of Manhattan's final confrontation with Ozymandias. By removing a scene that very clearly demonstrates that Ozy is punished for his actions with uncertainty, they removed a significant portion of the impact of the original ending. The change of Rorschach's origin story (really, the overall increase in gore for the sake of it) is my second biggest complaint, the MCR song is the third-biggest, and all other complaints seem like nitpicking.

So yeah, overall, not nearly as bad as it could've been, and I'll definitely watch it again before it leaves theatres. Still, could've been better.

[Dreddz]

I thought it was mediocre to be honest. It could have been great, but there are some glaring flaws in the movie. One is that they were trying to hard to be faithful to the graphic novel. Dialogue in a comic doesn't translate well to a movie and I never felt like I was listening to actual people talking.

I reckon the actors were all forgettable also, except for Jackie Earle Haley who did a good job with Rorschach. I liked where they were going with Dr Manhatten to start with but he never really became an endearing character to me. I never understood why he considered himself a completely different entity from other human characters despite looking human and speaking English as well. And why is he able to remember so much about his previous life yet can't understand human nature once he became Dr Manhatten. And what the hell was the cancer thing all about in the middle of the movie? Plus they never explained what Rorschachs face was all about, why were there ink splotches moving around his mask. I heard they explain it in the novel but thats no excuse for the movie not explaining it. Also I never understood the importance of The Comedian dying at the start.

The music selection was also dreadful. It takes too much attention off certain scenes and turns a movie which should remain serious into parody material. The film could have done with a regular film score, no doubt about that.

Other than that I enjoyed some aspects of the film. Some of the action scenes were so OTT that I enjoyed them. And there were some cool shots like when New York got split in half. I also picked up on some nods to Akira, dunno whether they were intentional but when Dr Manhatten blew up two guys reminded me of when Kaneda did the same in Akira And there is a shot near the end of Watchmen which reminded me of Tokyo blowing up in Akira. The similarities between the two movies stories is also quite interesting when you take these into account.

[Mercen-X]

The Comedian had to be killed for several reasons. One was that he was an arrogant and perverted sadist who treated life as one big joke. Another was a fact mentioned by Ozymandias: Comedian found out about his plot first.
Plotwise, it was the spark that ignited Rorshach's hunt for a Hero-killer. The Keane Act outlawed all heroes aside from Eddy and Manhattan. Ozymandias clearly didn't expect that anyone would investigate Eddy's death as he only orchestrated his own assassination after Rorshach warned him of his suspicions. That means that supposedly, once Eddy was out of the picture, no one would fall upon any hint of Adrian's schemes. Even Manhattan was no threat as he was becoming detached from humanity.

[Depression Moon]

He said he understood that and to dreddz I can understand your reasoning for the opinion on the movie I suggest that you read the graphic novel or maybe wait until it comes on DVD because I heard that the film will be extended.