The Spring vs. Yuna/Lenne Concert

[Forsaken Lover]

FFX's emotional vocal track scene vs. X-2's emotional vocal track scene.

YouTube - Final Fantasy X FMV: the spring (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu-Rj7u8jds)

YouTube - yuna's concert 1000 words (english) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6nfNJMAEug)

Which scene did you think was more powerful ie. more emotional to you and why?

[Tavrobel]

The Spring because it's more like sex than a poorly written political appeal via stupidity.

[Forsaken Lover]

I suppose that's one interpretation.
Another interpretation be that Yuna's song had nothing to do with politics. That it was a basic plea to the people actually doing the politicking's humanity and morality to avoid civil war.

[Roogle]

I agree with Tavrobel. I think the overall tone of Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2 will weigh in others' answers.

Yuna sponsoring a concert at the Thunder Plains seemed too cheesy to me and its preparation and execution took up a large majority of what was considered a chapter in the game; conversely, Tidus and Yuna at the spring in Macalania Forest was an unexpected tender moment shared in the course of an uncertain adventure while not becoming a large plot point in itself.

[Tavrobel]

[stuff] to avoid civil war.

Politics. Conversely, it is also politics to encourage war.

[Jessweeee♪]

I liked the spring scene better, but I liked the orchestrated version of 1000 Words better than Suteki Da Ne :p

[FFIX Choco Boy]

I like the Spring better than the Thunder Plains as well, but 1000 Words better than Suteki Da Ne.

[Forsaken Lover]

[stuff] to avoid civil war.

Politics. Conversely, it is also politics to encourage war.


So anyone who supports or is against war is not politicking? Here I thought it was just basic human morality and decency to be against mass slaughter. While politics lacks either morals or decency of any kind.

And I never go tt eSpring Scene
"So you're crying 'cause you're gonna die soon? Bummer. Let's kiss."
Maybe I'm unfamiliar with emotions and stuff but is it common to start to kiss and smile with the person sobbing over their inevitable death?

[Tavrobel]

In front of a group of people? Yeah, actually, it is. That would be the definition of politics; that is, getting a large number of people to do what you want them to. I could want people to embrace world peace, it'd still be politics if I told them about it.

Though I do not attempt to absolve politics to be of a less than genuine way of getting people to do what you want, it is not entirely evil. You can do what's right by society, you can do what's right by the person who is with you, you can do what is scientifically correct, the list goes on and on. What is "right" depends on what your interests are. While I would normally say "mass slaughter" is a bad thing, there are also times when doing the "right" thing will result in a large number of deaths.

What FFX-2 fails to accomplish in this area is to provide any form of alternative opinion and fails to encourage discussion, or at the very least, a way to show that its style of thinking is superior. I do not believe that large-scale, violent disputes can be solved by singing, dressing in frilly clothes, and invoking the authority of a dead person from 1000 years ago.

I see you've never hit on a girl with an opening line that is a variation of "I'm dying." Any form of sexuality or affection is a common result. I can see you've never tried hit the "denial" stage of accepting death. People laugh about it all the time; otherwise, they'd never be able to live with someone else dying, and as a result, mass suicide chains would ultimately result.

What it boils down to, is that this is a thread that asks people for their opinions. What matters to me is how much I care. I cared about what would happen to the two characters in The Spring. I did not care about the concert in FFX-2, because it was so contrived and I could not possibly believe that this situation could possibly ever happen, and that if it did, I would not have cared less. FFX-2 failed to evoke anything other than my indifference, and as such, to me, The Spring was a far superior scene. In a literal sense, it was sex versus bad politics. Can you guess which one I would prefer?

[Forsaken Lover]

Affection makes sense. Hugging someone because they are crying is sensible and nice.
Kissing them for the first time is totally stupid and immature.

And let me get this straight..you accept a giant floating monster whale thing bu tnot a girl ending civil war with singing? This is a fantasy setting with fantasy rules. They can do whatever they want.

As for contrived plot elements, what else is new. Biggest contrived element in the series was Tidus SOMEHOW not even catching a hint about Yuna dying. Sure the Guardians didn't bring it up but what about every other denizen of Spira he ran into? They just failed to even allude to this huge fact?

i couldn't care less about Tidus and Yuna in FFX so I can see your point about which scene you prefer depending on which characters you actually care for.

[Tavrobel]

People have done stupider things for stupider reasons. It wouldn't be the first, and it certainly wouldn't be the last.

Because her actions are grounded in reality, the actions of a world leader faced with world destruction from stupidity, something which we have some form of experience with. What else in the world is like a big giant floating whale? I'm more willing suspend my disbelief in the face of something that I've never seen before, and the plot of FFX offers a fine solution (for oversized whales). However, if we break plot elements down beyond their superficial level as it were, it becomes much more reasonable. What does a big giant floating whale with wings represent? It kills, it scares, and is big. Don't take the symbol for just face value, but break it down to what else it is too, and surely there is something you could compare it to.

As for "this is a fantasy world, they can do whatever they want," every fantasy world has some base in reality, and its bogged down even by its own rules; an internal consistency. Sure, D&D is fantasy, but I wouldn't use anything other than a 20 sided die to determine the results of actions.

To be fair, everyone else was keeping it from him, and this was a "new world" to him with different rules. He's as much an outsider as we are; I didn't think that she would die until they told me, too (I was also ten or eleven). As we've discussed, death is a touchy subject (and guaranteed panty-peeler), and it isn't something most people want to discuss, especially filled with the reality of it daily. If there's so much of it, it might as well be easy to assume, and what else can you do as an outsider with nothing but subtle entendres and references to something that you know nothing about?

[Rikku_Yuffie_girl]

The Spring! :)

[Forsaken Lover]

Because her actions are grounded in reality, the actions of a world leader faced with world destruction from stupidity, something which we have some form of experience with. What else in the world is like a big giant floating whale? I'm more willing suspend my disbelief in the face of something that I've never seen before, and the plot of FFX offers a fine solution (for oversized whales). However, if we break plot elements down beyond their superficial level as it were, it becomes much more reasonable. What does a big giant floating whale with wings represent? It kills, it scares, and is big. Don't take the symbol for just face value, but break it down to what else it is too, and surely there is something you could compare it to.

Except in an indirect way, that giant whale thing ties in with Yuna's concert.
Yuna is a hero; a hero beyond anything that could ever exist in a world like ours. For a thousand years Sin terrorized every living thing on the planet and now it's gone due mainly to her.

So with that level of sway and influence, a level beyond pretty much anything anyone in our world could hope to match, I again point to the fact his is a fantasy world with differences to our own. This is one of them. If someone saved the planet and then asked me to stop doing something, I'd do it.

The added showing of the tragedy of Shuyin and Lenne was just reinforcing the view of how war is a futile and monstrous thing. Like any tragedy it was supposed to make you think and contemplate how petty and cruel humanity is. So couple that with Yuna's immense clout and, again, the fact his is a different world than ours and it makes enough sense to me.

By and large though, your view of both scenes is at complete odds with my own. I never thought of sex when I saw The Spring and I never thought of politics when I saw the concert. I thought one was an overspill of emotion between two lovers and the other was a plea to basic human decency.

[Tavrobel]

Yes, she is a hero, which places her squarely at the top of the world. You can't go and save the world, and expect to be shoved off into obscurity if you live; if you died, hell, you would be venerated as a godlike figure. There's no winning; you either die, or you deal with the whole of the world's population. There's so many instances in FFX-2 where Yuna is incapable of acting on what she really wants to do because of the expectations people had of her. If she really wanted to avoid the politicking, she'd just not listen to anyone, and yet she does. However, there are several figures in the real world that can be compared to Yuna. Okay, so they haven't quite saved the world, but they are world leaders, and have incredible power and influence, enough to get millions of people to listen to them.

That would depend on the circumstances of the war, and as far as I bothered to tell, yes, their particular story was tragic, but very likely mirrored in some way with any other number of faceless pawns. I don't like war, but I do accept the premise that people dying is a necessary difficulty. How people come to this end is irrelevant, and they [Shuyin and Lenne] is another tragic story. But I did not feel that their story was enough to warrant anything other than my indifference. Frankly, I think he did something incredibly rash and borderline the exact opposite of what she wanted.

If that weren't true enough at the time, the 1000 extra years to reflect on his own demise was more than enough to convince him to do something even more over the top. Yeah, she forgave him and everything, but what he did and planned to do was pretty repulsive. To me, it was a weak premise: "ohh my girlfriend died, now you're all gonna die for it, and 1000 years wasn't enough for me to get over it." I might as well just build a sonic death ray, and forget to carry a decimal properly. That'll kill people real quick!

Sex doesn't have an emotional component? I can't use it to show someone I care?

[Forsaken Lover]

Yes, she is a hero, which places her squarely at the top of the world. You can't go and save the world, and expect to be shoved off into obscurity if you live; if you died, hell, you would be venerated as a godlike figure. There's no winning; you either die, or you deal with the whole of the world's population. There's so many instances in FFX-2 where Yuna is incapable of acting on what she really wants to do because of the expectations people had of her. If she really wanted to avoid the politicking, she'd just not listen to anyone, and yet she does. However, there are several figures in the real world that can be compared to Yuna. Okay, so they haven't quite saved the world, but they are world leaders, and have incredible power and influence, enough to get millions of people to listen to them.

Well Yuna listens to other people because, despite the fact she's such an important figure, she's still humble and human. She could obviously and easily flaunt her position but she just wants peace and quiet.

Also, at the time of Yuna's concert, those leaders had vanished. No one had any idea why they were gone...they just knew war was about to break out and their leaders had abandoned them. So essentially all these people only had Yuna ot turn to.

Your other two points are agreeable enough. As for how much Shuyin's and Lenne's tragedy effected you, that's purely subjective.

[blackmage_nuke]

Affection makes sense. Hugging someone because they are crying is sensible and nice.
Kissing them for the first time is totally stupid and immature.
Yuna didnt have long to live, their relationship had to move abit faster and they were already at the stage where they cared about each other deeply

[champagne supernova]

No way, a detailed analysis of X and X-2. With multiple long paragraphs :confused: :confused: :confused: I can't believe my eyes.

[Dark Angel Kira]

Who cares about the reasons behind the songs politics !!boring!! i think the x2 song is a great song well i sing it enough and the x one is good too but out the 2 1000 words is the best for me

[tidushuyincloud lover4evr]

i think the one in the THUNDER PLATEAU; yunas concert, is the best- the spring was AMAZINGGGGGGG, and made me cry- happy happy happy tears!(: but i love the thunder plateau concert one more, because it makes me cry sad tears- BECAUSE it makes me understand yuna SO much more.... and how she feels,- i KNOW that it was lenne singing it to shuyin, but the basic point of the song was how shuyin and lenne's love related to tidus and yunas love.... but it helps me understand yuna more. i didnt understand her in ffx i thought she was just a boring girl who thought she loved him, but the SPRING scene made me realize she loves him alot & needs him... and the concert it thunder plateau showed me how much she loved him. and i think it was more powerful...... :( i makes me cry my eyes out!! for literally HOURS :(

[killiancurse21]

The songs?
1000 Words, by far.

The scenes?
Didn't really like either.