aliens #2

[Darkswordofchaos]

Do you think they will ever invade earth. I dont think so because the only reason i could think of would be to turn us to slaves or to steal our resources. and if we were attacked we would blow the whole planet away with nukes befor we let those alien suns a bitches to take us over.

[captkrill]

Its hard to say.

Look at us as a species...we are a destructive species that thrives on war and chaos, clinging to our own perspective and will to live. We do what we think is necessary to survive, if that means we kill our neighbors...then by god we kill our neighbor...there is no other species quite like us known...

Don't know about you guys but i doubt someone would wanna come mess with us...we would just nuke them and kill ourselves in the rpocess...They will be saying, nice job retards...we only came here to kill u to begin with...BRAVO!

Power to civilization! :p

[Aerith's Knight]

Seriously.. Cmon now.

The time to get here would be about 100.000 years at best. Even if they could survive the trip, would be very coincidental if they arrived at the exact time our civilization rose and hadn't collapsed yet.

[Darkswordofchaos]

Take them down with us:D

[Aerith's Knight]

-_-

What I mean is.. that our civilization has only been around for about 10.000 years(at most)

So they would have to have precognition to know sentient life would be here.

Besides, if it was us, would you care to go that far?

[Darkswordofchaos]

-_-

What I mean is.. that our civilization has only been around for about 10.000 years(at most)

So they would have to have precognition to know sentient life would be here.

Besides, if it was us, would you care to go that far?

Techniclly weve only been detectable since 1901 when the first long range radio signals were sent accross the world.

It is extremly highly likly that we havent been around long enough or looking for others long enough i argee with that

[Caraliz]

I don't think they'd invade us. They come in peaaaas

[Aerith's Knight]

-_-

What I mean is.. that our civilization has only been around for about 10.000 years(at most)

So they would have to have precognition to know sentient life would be here.

Besides, if it was us, would you care to go that far?

Techniclly weve only been detectable since 1901 when the first long range radio signals were sent accross the world.

It is extremly highly likly that we havent been around long enough or looking for others long enough i argee with that

That's not what I'm trying to explain here.

The distances in space are.. too large to be able to envision. Let's say for example a civilization, which is advanced and capable, takes the 200.000 year trip at 0.3 the speed of light(as to counter relativistic effects) to earth. If human kind only had the potential to actually speak with them for 10.000 years, what chance do you think those aliens would have to arrive in that period?

If the trip takes 20 times the duration of our civilization, they'd have to be really lucky in picking out the departure time.

[Moon Rabbits]

Any extraterrestrial civilization that has evolved to the point where it can travel the distances in Space fast enough to reach Earth before we're all already dead and gone will have evolved past the point of warmongering.

[Darkswordofchaos]

[quote=Darkswordofchaos;2650413The distances in space are.. too large to be able to envision. Let's say for example a civilization, which is advanced and capable, takes the 200.000 year trip at 0.3 the speed of light(as to counter relativistic effects) to earth. If human kind only had the potential to actually speak with them for 10.000 years, what chance do you think those aliens would have to arrive in that period?

If the trip takes 20 times the duration of our civilization, they'd have to be really lucky in picking out the departure time.

I think that a specices advanced enough to even attemt a voage that far would have at the least developed the ability to travel at near light speeds. and that is if they havent devised a way to stabalize worm holes in wich case they could travel the span of the universe in a matter of years.

[Aerith's Knight]

No matter what you do in this universe, if you come near light speed you will experience relativistic effects. Instead of going faster, you'd actually take longer.. I'm not going to explain that here. And even so, that would merely cut the time to 1/3, which would still be ridiculous in years.

And don't talk about things from Stargate. We don't know how wormholes work, because it's just a theory, and we don't even know if they can even exist.

[Crimson]

Someone's been watching too much Independence Day.

[blackmage_nuke]

Maybe the previous dominant species discussed this before humans landed on earth.

[Darkswordofchaos]

No matter what you do in this universe, if you come near light speed you will experience relativistic effects. Instead of going faster, you'd actually take longer.. I'm not going to explain that here. And even so, that would merely cut the time to 1/3, which would still be ridiculous in years.

And don't talk about things from Stargate. We don't know how wormholes work, because it's just a theory, and we don't even know if they can even exist.

It wouldent take longer for the traveler. they would be moving fast but They would slow down in time. They would age 1sec to every year in real tim. It would still be possible to visit places withing 100 or so light years and still return home, especialy if there species has extreme longevity. in that case things back home wouldent change that drasticly. to someone who lives 1000 earth years 1 year wouldent be very much at all to them. and 100 years would be about like 10 years to us.

[Aerith's Knight]

No matter what you do in this universe, if you come near light speed you will experience relativistic effects. Instead of going faster, you'd actually take longer.. I'm not going to explain that here. And even so, that would merely cut the time to 1/3, which would still be ridiculous in years.

And don't talk about things from Stargate. We don't know how wormholes work, because it's just a theory, and we don't even know if they can even exist.

It wouldent take longer for the traveler. they would be moving fast but They would slow down in time. They would age 1sec to every year in real tim. It would still be possible to visit places withing 100 or so light years and still return home, especialy if there species has extreme longevity. in that case things back home wouldent change that drasticly. to someone who lives 1000 earth years 1 year wouldent be very much at all to them. and 100 years would be about like 10 years to us.

It might not be long to them, but you're forgetting that the actual time flow isn't affected. They could travel 200.000 lightyears and maybe it's only 200 years to them, but that wouldn't meant that only 200 years went by for us. It would still take 200.000 years to get here, and the propobility that any sentient life exists when they arive, let alone detectable, would be infinitely slim.

You can't bend the laws of time and space to your liking just because you want to entertain the possiblity of getting freaky with some green lizardwoman.

[Darkswordofchaos]

No matter what you do in this universe, if you come near light speed you will experience relativistic effects. Instead of going faster, you'd actually take longer.. I'm not going to explain that here. And even so, that would merely cut the time to 1/3, which would still be ridiculous in years.

And don't talk about things from Stargate. We don't know how wormholes work, because it's just a theory, and we don't even know if they can even exist.

It wouldent take longer for the traveler. they would be moving fast but They would slow down in time. They would age 1sec to every year in real tim. It would still be possible to visit places withing 100 or so light years and still return home, especialy if there species has extreme longevity. in that case things back home wouldent change that drasticly. to someone who lives 1000 earth years 1 year wouldent be very much at all to them. and 100 years would be about like 10 years to us.

It might not be long to them, but you're forgetting that the actual time flow isn't affected. They could travel 200.000 lightyears and maybe it's only 200 years to them, but that wouldn't meant that only 200 years went by for us. It would still take 200.000 years to get here, and the propobility that any sentient life exists when they arive, let alone detectable, would be infinitely slim.

You can't bend the laws of time and space to your liking just because you want to entertain the possiblity of getting freaky with some green lizardwoman.

Uh huu well im not sure but thats probably why i said If they were within a few hundred light years from us like 100-400 LY. of course not if they were sevral thousand light years away.

and as to the second point i can change the laws of phisycs however i want i just choose not to, also i prefer catwoman.

[Madame Adequate]

What possible purpose would such an act have? If they've got interstellar travel sufficient to transport either hugely advanced weapons, or a massive army, or both, what would our single planet actually hold that would interest them? At worst they'd document our presence and move on, I think.

[Aerith's Knight]

No matter what you do in this universe, if you come near light speed you will experience relativistic effects. Instead of going faster, you'd actually take longer.. I'm not going to explain that here. And even so, that would merely cut the time to 1/3, which would still be ridiculous in years.

And don't talk about things from Stargate. We don't know how wormholes work, because it's just a theory, and we don't even know if they can even exist.

It wouldent take longer for the traveler. they would be moving fast but They would slow down in time. They would age 1sec to every year in real tim. It would still be possible to visit places withing 100 or so light years and still return home, especialy if there species has extreme longevity. in that case things back home wouldent change that drasticly. to someone who lives 1000 earth years 1 year wouldent be very much at all to them. and 100 years would be about like 10 years to us.

It might not be long to them, but you're forgetting that the actual time flow isn't affected. They could travel 200.000 lightyears and maybe it's only 200 years to them, but that wouldn't meant that only 200 years went by for us. It would still take 200.000 years to get here, and the propobility that any sentient life exists when they arive, let alone detectable, would be infinitely slim.

You can't bend the laws of time and space to your liking just because you want to entertain the possiblity of getting freaky with some green lizardwoman.

Uh huu well im not sure but thats probably why i said If they were within a few hundred light years from us like 100-400 LY. of course not if they were sevral thousand light years away.

and as to the second point i can change the laws of phisycs however i want i just choose not to, also i prefer catwoman.

Do you know why I used that as an example? Because last year a paper was published that theorized an Earth-like planet was possibly found at that distance. Do you really think we haven't checked the space that near? There probably isn't even a solar system at that distance.

Seriously, stop talking. You're not making yourself seem smarter. >_>

[Madame Adequate]

Do you know why I used that as an example? Because last year a paper was published that theorized an Earth-like planet was possibly found at that distance. Do you really think we haven't checked the space that near? There probably isn't even a solar system at that distance.

Wow, really? I was entirely unaware that we had accurately and conclusively mapped everything within an 800ly diameter sphere! I'm all about how awesome we humans and our technology are but this is fairly special even for us. Link to a map plz?

I think you're getting your ideas of scale wrong here. Space is big and empty, but not THAT empty. Within 100ly of Sol there are a lot of stars. cf. here (http://www.solstation.com/stars3/100-as.htm), here (http://www.solstation.com/stars3/100-bs.htm), here (http://www.solstation.com/stars3/100-fs.htm), here (http://www.solstation.com/stars3/100-gs.htm), and here (http://www.solstation.com/stars3/100-ks.htm) - there are almost 2000 stars identified there within 100ly of Sol. this number will increase exponentially every 100ly further out you go. Now I admit I'm no astrophysicist or anything but I know enough about space to know that we sure as hell fire haven't taken a peek at every single one of those few hundred stars within 50ly, nevermind the ones beyond that.

Oh, also, remember that one of the main reasons we only see huge gravitational bodies like super-Jupiters five miles from their sun is because our detection methods are crude. We don't see smaller bodies because they're below our resolution, as it were.

[Aerith's Knight]

Do you know why I used that as an example? Because last year a paper was published that theorized an Earth-like planet was possibly found at that distance. Do you really think we haven't checked the space that near? There probably isn't even a solar system at that distance.

Wow, really? I was entirely unaware that we had accurately and conclusively mapped everything within an 800ly diameter sphere! I'm all about how awesome we humans and our technology are but this is fairly special even for us. Link to a map plz?

It was done by gravitational effects, and to be honest, I even doubt that paper. I was merely using it as an example to show the distances in space.

Also, here you go: http://galaxymap.org/drupal/node/45

You could try googling.

Anywho, calculating and theorizing about this stuff is what atrophycisists do.

[LunarWeaver]

I can only support alien invasion if there is tentacle rape involved.

[Madame Adequate]

Do you know why I used that as an example? Because last year a paper was published that theorized an Earth-like planet was possibly found at that distance. Do you really think we haven't checked the space that near? There probably isn't even a solar system at that distance.

Wow, really? I was entirely unaware that we had accurately and conclusively mapped everything within an 800ly diameter sphere! I'm all about how awesome we humans and our technology are but this is fairly special even for us. Link to a map plz?

It was done by gravitational effects, and to be honest, I even doubt that paper. I was merely using it as an example to show the distances in space.

Also, here you go: http://galaxymap.org/drupal/node/45

You could try googling.

I see no map of the region immediately surrounding our space. That's like asking for directions to the new movie theater and being given a map of the entire North American continent, at maximum zoom.

Edit: I retract the above statement because I am profoundly stupid. Apologies and thanks.

[Darkswordofchaos]

No matter what you do in this universe, if you come near light speed you will experience relativistic effects. Instead of going faster, you'd actually take longer.. I'm not going to explain that here. And even so, that would merely cut the time to 1/3, which would still be ridiculous in years.

And don't talk about things from Stargate. We don't know how wormholes work, because it's just a theory, and we don't even know if they can even exist.

It wouldent take longer for the traveler. they would be moving fast but They would slow down in time. They would age 1sec to every year in real tim. It would still be possible to visit places withing 100 or so light years and still return home, especialy if there species has extreme longevity. in that case things back home wouldent change that drasticly. to someone who lives 1000 earth years 1 year wouldent be very much at all to them. and 100 years would be about like 10 years to us.

It might not be long to them, but you're forgetting that the actual time flow isn't affected. They could travel 200.000 lightyears and maybe it's only 200 years to them, but that wouldn't meant that only 200 years went by for us. It would still take 200.000 years to get here, and the propobility that any sentient life exists when they arive, let alone detectable, would be infinitely slim.

You can't bend the laws of time and space to your liking just because you want to entertain the possiblity of getting freaky with some green lizardwoman.

Uh huu well im not sure but thats probably why i said If they were within a few hundred light years from us like 100-400 LY. of course not if they were sevral thousand light years away.

and as to the second point i can change the laws of phisycs however i want i just choose not to, also i prefer catwoman.

Do you know why I used that as an example? Because last year a paper was published that theorized an Earth-like planet was possibly found at that distance. Do you really think we haven't checked the space that near? There probably isn't even a solar system at that distance.

Seriously, stop talking. You're not making yourself seem smarter. >_>

There is lot of :bou::bou::bou::bou: that we cant or havent seen within a 1000 ly spere of earth. Im not saying there is any thing out there im sayin that its not impossible. And there could very well be a nother speciecs out ther similar to us but 100 technological yeas behind and we would never no it and just because we need certain things to live dosent mean they do. there could be another kind of people that thrive in entiraly difrent conditions.
Also there was one theory that if you used humans as the model an andvanced species would eventualy require all of the suns power to support its self. There for they would build a sort of shell like structure around their star that would absorb most of the energy thus we woul be hard pressed to even see that star with out metods. I will admitt that is a little far fechetd. and like a said before they could be thousands of times more advanced than us. there is no way in hell that we would even be able to comprehend the modes of travel they could have very well invented.

[Loony BoB]

Any extraterrestrial civilization that has evolved to the point where it can travel the distances in Space fast enough to reach Earth before we're all already dead and gone will have evolved past the point of warmongering.
This

What possible purpose would such an act have? If they've got interstellar travel sufficient to transport either hugely advanced weapons, or a massive army, or both, what would our single planet actually hold that would interest them? At worst they'd document our presence and move on, I think.
and this sum up my thoughts.

Muppet's sentiments regarding how likely it is that we'll ever see ET life are also echoed by myself. It would be pretty cool. It would kind of throw everything we have up in the air, but it would still be pretty cool. I just can't see it happening, though. How would it even work? It would end up being a case of about five countries all trying to get the aliens to take on their language or something. It's awesome to think about all of this, even with the idea that they would actually stop by, assuming we advance to the point that we can reach beyond the damned moon. I'll start daydreaming about all this sort of thing when man is able to make serious headway towards interstellar flight, let alone interplanetary.

[Darkswordofchaos]

Any extraterrestrial civilization that has evolved to the point where it can travel the distances in Space fast enough to reach Earth before we're all already dead and gone will have evolved past the point of warmongering.
This



Well if the were like humans they would be so paranoid that any even remotly advanced species will one day rise to defeat them that they nip them in the bud by killing species like us.

[Bunny]

Something that does not exist cannot attack.

[Aerith's Knight]

There is lot of :bou::bou::bou::bou: that we cant or havent seen within a 1000 ly spere of earth. Im not saying there is any thing out there im sayin that its not impossible. And there could very well be a nother speciecs out ther similar to us but 100 technological yeas behind and we would never no it and just because we need certain things to live dosent mean they do. there could be another kind of people that thrive in entiraly difrent conditions.

*sigh*

Alright, last time I'm gonna respond. For life to exist there are a specific set of things that are neccesary. An atmosfere, liveable climate(not too hot, not too cold) and water. The distance of a planet to it's sun is the most important thing in that.

Our planet is about 146 million km from the sun. If the earth would be even a few kilometers closer or further away, the planet would be uninhabitable. Do you understand the chance of such a planet evolving in our backyard so to say?

Again, I'll say it one more time, the reason I chose that distance is because some astrophycisists calculated that that planet would (probably) have the conditions needed for a habitable planet. Again, I thought it wasn't really a great paper, lot's of assumptions.

Statistics often say that other life should exist, but only because of the size of the universe, which is basically infinite. No actual radio transmissions have ever been detected, and that's called the Fermi-Hart paradox.



Also there was one theory that if you used humans as the model an andvanced species would eventualy require all of the suns power to support its self. There for they would build a sort of shell like structure around their star that would absorb most of the energy thus we woul be hard pressed to even see that star with out metods. I will admitt that is a little far fechetd. and like a said before they could be thousands of times more advanced than us. there is no way in hell that we would even be able to comprehend the modes of travel they could have very well invented.

And there it is. You've made yourself stupid. Not only because of the impossibly large amount of spelling errors, but the practical impossibility of that theory. And even a thousand times more advanced species would need to follow the laws of physics.

If they were a thousand times more advanced, they would've been so for a long time, which means we would've picked up their radio transmissions by now if they were in any "close" proximity(fyi, radio transmissions travel by nearly the speed of light).

And that's it, I've had my dose of trying to talk people like you out of insane ideas, because it never works. :p

Have fun preparing for an alien invasion.

-Dennis out-

[Darkswordofchaos]

There is lot of :bou::bou::bou::bou: that we cant or havent seen within a 1000 ly spere of earth. Im not saying there is any thing out there im sayin that its not impossible. And there could very well be a nother speciecs out ther similar to us but 100 technological yeas behind and we would never no it and just because we need certain things to live dosent mean they do. there could be another kind of people that thrive in entiraly difrent conditions.

*sigh*

Alright, last time I'm gonna respond. For life to exist there are a specific set of things that are neccesary. An atmosfere, liveable climate(not too hot, not too cold) and water. The distance of a planet to it's sun is the most important thing in that.

Our planet is about 146 million km from the sun. If the earth would be even a few kilometers closer or further away, the planet would be uninhabitable. Do you understand the chance of such a planet evolving in our backyard so to say?

Again, I'll say it one more time, the reason I chose that distance is because some astrophycisists calculated that that planet would (probably) have the conditions needed for a habitable planet. Again, I thought it wasn't really a great paper, lot's of assumptions.

Statistics often say that other life should exist, but only because of the size of the universe, which is basically infinite. No actual radio transmissions have ever been detected, and that's called the Fermi-Hart paradox.



Also there was one theory that if you used humans as the model an andvanced species would eventualy require all of the suns power to support its self. There for they would build a sort of shell like structure around their star that would absorb most of the energy thus we woul be hard pressed to even see that star with out metods. I will admitt that is a little far fechetd. and like a said before they could be thousands of times more advanced than us. there is no way in hell that we would even be able to comprehend the modes of travel they could have very well invented.

And there it is. You've made yourself stupid. Not only because of the impossibly large amount of spelling errors, but the practical impossibility of that theory. And even a thousand times more advanced species would need to follow the laws of physics.

If they were a thousand times more advanced, they would've been so for a long time, which means we would've picked up their radio transmissions by now if they were in any "close" proximity(fyi, radio transmissions travel by nearly the speed of light).

And that's it, I've had my dose of trying to talk people like you out of insane ideas, because it never works. :p

Have fun preparing for an alien invasion.

-Dennis out-

This is fun but i dont really think a invasion would happen this is just what ifs also there is a high likly hood they dont use radio signal anymore weve only been using them about 100 years and we are already phasing them out. and non directed radio signals cant even be picked up at the nearest star so unless they wanted to be found like earth does we wouldent know
also these theroys ive said arnt mine ther were thought of by astrophysisits

[Madame Adequate]

Alright, last time I'm gonna respond. For life to exist there are a specific set of things that are neccesary. An atmosfere, liveable climate(not too hot, not too cold) and water. The distance of a planet to it's sun is the most important thing in that.

Anthropocentric nonsense. We don't have the first idea where life can exist except Earth, but that doesn't mean that Earth is the only possible kind of planet where life could evolve.


Our planet is about 146 million km from the sun. If the earth would be even a few kilometers closer or further away, the planet would be uninhabitable. Do you understand the chance of such a planet evolving in our backyard so to say?

First, Earth's perihelion is 147mil km. Second, Earth's aphelion is 152mil km, which is rather more than "a few kilometers".

Third, we have no clue how common planets are in the universe, because we don't have the ability to see them. All we can do is watch stars which are influenced by extremely massive nearby planets. Until we are actually able to detect smaller planets at greater orbital distances, we can't make any definitive statements on their commonality.


Again, I'll say it one more time, the reason I chose that distance is because some astrophycisists calculated that that planet would (probably) have the conditions needed for a habitable planet. Again, I thought it wasn't really a great paper, lot's of assumptions.

Assumptions were made, but the planet itself does exist, and we can be certain of a couple of fundamental factors beyond that. The assumptions weren't "This exist and is this", the assumptions were "Okay, if it is X then what happens? What about if it's Y?" and they went on to basically answer those. They never shied away from saying "Don't get your hopes up, but it's an interesting place to examine and we just maybe will learn from it."


Statistics often say that other life should exist, but only because of the size of the universe, which is basically infinite. No actual radio transmissions have ever been detected, and that's called the Fermi-Hart paradox.

Okay, just one of many, MANY possible responses to the Fermi Paradox is: What if they're deliberately not contacting us a la Starfleet's Prime Directive?


If they were a thousand times more advanced, they would've been so for a long time, which means we would've picked up their radio transmissions by now if they were in any "close" proximity(fyi, radio transmissions travel by nearly the speed of light).

Not if the Singularity proves to be an accurate model of technological development. Remember, even if it is accurate, we're only just reaching the leading edge of the upswing now - and we still went from not having radio to being on the moon in 75 years. Oh, and, of course, we're already beginning to abandon a lot of uses of radio.

[Parker]

I can only support alien invasion if there is tentacle rape involved.

[Montoya]

Smurf aliens.

[Darkswordofchaos]

Smurf aliens.

I Concure