For U=R lovers

[Future Esthar]

Do you realize that the reason Ulti looks like Rinoa is that she could be her mother?
Not exactly herself.
If not mother,the heritage must be very direct so it´s not like Ulti lives too far on the future.

This explains the great similarity of their pictures.

[.:fairydust:.]

Forgive me, but wasn't that singer Rinoa's mother? The one Laguna went to see in Galbadia Hotel? I can't see her going from singer to one of the most powerful sorceresses of all time...

[Future Esthar]

Or another direct heritage,I said?

[Yar]

Julia dies in a car accident anyway. Rinoa is a child when she dies.

[Serapy]

I don't think Adel looked like that before she was imprisoned.
I also don't think she looked like that before he even gained her own powers. It cannot be possible. It's likely that she looked like a normal person before all this happened.
Therefore, when she was imprisoned for many years, her physical being has begun to evolve. Something in the imprisonment made her have tattoos, strange symbols, red eyes, and muscles, as a result for living ageless (paying the ultimate price.) How did she get muscles? Did she exercise and eat free food during his imprisonment ? Cannot be possible because from the FMV she was seen to be stuck in the same position. That is what imprisonment means for witches in VIII.

So, if you compare Adel to Ultimecia, you can see some similarities. That would explain why Ultimecia was imprisoned as well. Because if she wasn't imprisoned, she wouldn't have these tattoos and other things around herself (such as her horns.) Her imprisonment caused her to go crazy, going back to the past to rule the whole world for revenge and vengeance.

The only flaw is Zell's tattoos. How did he get them, and his tattoos really look like Ultimecia's tattoos. Rubah linked me to one of the interviews regarding his tattoos, but I'm suprised the writer didn't say anything about Ultimecia or Adel tattoos so they must mean something.

[MJN SEIFER]

Do you realize that the reason Ulti looks like Rinoa is that she could be her mother?
Not exactly herself.
If not mother,the heritage must be very direct so it´s not like Ulti lives too far on the future.

This explains the great similarity of their pictures.

To be perfectly honest, I've never really seen any resembelence to Rinoa and Ultimeica. (I'm not saying this 'cause I hate the R=U stuff, I just don't see it).

But... It's brilliant to see you post here again FE (hope to see some more stuff from you :D)

[Future Esthar]

Can you post me the link to that interview Serapy?

[Serapy]

Zell was drawn with the "main character of a shonen-manga" image. Beforehand, Nomura saw a music clip on MTV featuring a man with an all-over body tattoo. Remembering how cool it looked, he decided to add a large tattoo on Zell's face

Source - FLAREgamer | Tetsuya Nomura's 20s (http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=81&more=1)

At the bottom of the page, it shows:



Sources:
Squaresoft Staff
Ultimania & Dismantling
V-Jump & Famitsu


I really don't know if this information is reliable, but who knows really. Noruma did not mention Adel or Ultimecia tattoos . . .

[Future Esthar]

I think the tattos are the same.That is because Zell is Ulti´s grandson.

That is the tattoo of the SeeD (SorcErEss Dinasty).

SeeD heritage is as follows:

Seifer et Almasie (Seifer D'Almasy) marries Ultimedea and gives birth to Ellone Rinva.
Ellone Rinva marries Sqvall giving birth to Zell
Zell marries Qvistix giving birth to Sophie
Sophie marries Irvine.

This 8 persons form SeeD.
This is a codename given by the Garden´special students but no one knows its real meaning.

[Serapy]

Zell could be indeed a true descendant of Ultimecia in blood. His tattoos must be genetically related because Ultimecia has the tattoos as well. So, she re-produced Zell, and that's how he's got her tattoos inherited. But what about Adel?

EDIT- Almost all the beings in VIII don't have tattoos. Only Zell, Adel and Ultimecia do.

[Future Esthar]

Tattoos aren´t acquired genetically.
It is a symbol of SeeD.

Adel is easily explained.

I theorize that SeeD (and "white SeeD") has these powers because they are alien beings known as Propagators.
They ruled Centra but camed from another planet.
Propagators are the monsters Squall and Rinoa fought on the airship on outer space.
These monsters have the ability of acting as a single entity and can physically become one through some artificial processes.This technology exists somewhere on the Galbadia prison.
This single entity is Adel.
if you look at Adel you will see that he resembles Squall (on space),Zell(FMV beggining fight),Seifer (same) and Irvine(Through the long pushair).The girls resemblance are difficult to see but are easily spotted through the clothes.

[Serapy]

The car license's code and the code on Raine's tomestone. Does they have something to do with the reentry code at the Ragnarok? To activate the Propagators ...

I'm sure there are more codes in the game.

[Skyblade]

Tattoos aren´t acquired genetically.

That is true. I'm shocked.


It is a symbol of SeeD.

Says who?


Adel is easily explained.

Then do so.


I theorize that SeeD (and "white SeeD") has these powers because they are alien beings known as Propagators.

I think your tin hat might be on a little too tightly once again.


They ruled Centra but camed from another planet.

Your evidence for this is what, exactly?


Propagators are the monsters Squall and Rinoa fought on the airship on outer space.

Yes, some of us were actually paying attention when we played the game.


These monsters have the ability of acting as a single entity

Um, noooo... These monsters have the ability to revive each other unless they are killed in their colored pairs, that is not the same thing.


and can physically become one through some artificial processes.

Since when?


This technology exists somewhere on the Galbadia prison.

Really? Where? Why has no one else ever noticed this gestalt technology there?


This single entity is Adel.

Um, says who?


if you look at Adel you will see that he resembles Squall (on space),Zell(FMV beggining fight),Seifer (same) and Irvine(Through the long pushair).The girls resemblance are difficult to see but are easily spotted through the clothes.

You're arguing that Adel is the same entity as the entire rest of the cast because of "long hair", and "clothes"? Oh no, I have two eyes! Adel does too! I must be part of Adel!

[The Last Oath]

Maybe, just maybe...like 1/10000000 chance, Zell simply wanted a tattoo on his face.

[Fynn]

Zell could be indeed a true descendant of Ultimecia in blood. His tattoos must be genetically related because Ultimecia has the tattoos as well. So, she re-produced Zell, and that's how he's got her tattoos inherited. But what about Adel?

EDIT- Almost all the beings in VIII don't have tattoos. Only Zell, Adel and Ultimecia do.

I know I might not be quite right, but I believe Zell didn't have the tattoo in the orphanage flashbacks...

[Future Esthar]

Tattoos are inherited in much the same way a family object or a tale is passed through generations.

[Serapy]

Zell could be indeed a true descendant of Ultimecia in blood. His tattoos must be genetically related because Ultimecia has the tattoos as well. So, she re-produced Zell, and that's how he's got her tattoos inherited. But what about Adel?

EDIT- Almost all the beings in VIII don't have tattoos. Only Zell, Adel and Ultimecia do.

I know I might not be quite right, but I believe Zell didn't have the tattoo in the orphanage flashbacks...


Sometimes in non-CGI scenes, even big Zell's tattoos cannot be seen.

[Fynn]

So you're saying he had tattoos as a kid...? 0_o

[McLovin']

Genetically inherited tattoos Fynn!

[Fynn]

Genetically inherited tattoos Fynn!

My mind is blown!

[Sword]

This is stupid

[G13]

Agreed!

[Shattered Dreamer]

SeeD heritage is as follows:

Seifer et Almasie (Seifer D'Almasy) marries Ultimedea and gives birth to Ellone Rinva.
Ellone Rinva marries Sqvall giving birth to Zell
Zell marries Qvistix giving birth to Sophie
Sophie marries Irvine.

This 8 persons form SeeD.
This is a codename given by the Garden´special students but no one knows its real meaning.

Ah NO! Ellone is Raine's daughter so she is Squall's half sister so I don't reckon Zell is their son. And also the idea of Ultimecia & Zell being related due to genetic facial tattoos, again NO how ridiculous! Genetic facial tattoos, really?:tongue:

If they are related then Zell would have to be her grandfather not grandson being that Ultimecia is from the future also they don't look anything alike .

Also it would not be necessary for Ultimecia to be related to any of the Sorceresses in the present to be a sorceress in the future. Edea passed on her sorceress powers to Rinoa after the battle in Galbadia Garden. They aren't related are they?

The only time paradox I could see in the game is Ultimecia giving her powers to Edea after the final boss fight.

I don't think the R=U theory is right either. The idea that Rinoa was imprisoned went crazy & killed all of SeeD. Again no, Squall obliviously would of saved her again just like he did the first time Esthar wanted to imprison her. I mean he hardly decided after the ordeal that surrounds FFVIII that f**k her she ain't worth saving twice.

[Jiro]

I like the idea that Zell was born with tattoos. Makes him even cooler.

Also, posting purely because the title says "U=R" instead of "R=U" :D

[Fynn]

I like the idea that Zell was born with tattoos. Makes him even cooler.

Also, posting purely because the title says "U=R" instead of "R=U" :D

OMG! You just made me realize that switching the positions of the letters makes the whole theory make sense now! :Eek:

[The Crystal]

All those threads about R=U are just a ploy to distract us of the real truth... That Future Esthar is Ultimecia. :Eek: :eek:

[Fynn]

All those threads about R=U are just a ploy to distract us of the real truth... That Future Esthar is Ultimecia. :Eek: :eek:

:monocle:

[Dragonovich]

Squall=Griever ;)

Squall was rinoa's guardian and sacrificed himself to be the final summon to beat Sin who travelled dimension. She wanted time compression to prevent the Sin cycle form happening.

I cried aloud with mirth and merriment never realized how similar the sin and sorceress plot was.

fanfic, pls dont lemme find some1 down the line in this thread take this seriously.

[MJN SEIFER]

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.

[Ouch!]

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.
Perhaps I'm just talking out of my ass here (but that's what these threads are all about anyway!), but doesn't scanning Griever reveal that he was created from Squall's own mind by Ultimecia?

[MJN SEIFER]

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.
Perhaps I'm just talking out of my ass here (but that's what these threads are all about anyway!), but doesn't scanning Griever reveal that he was created from Squall's own mind by Ultimecia?

Yes it does.

[NeoCracker]

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.
Perhaps I'm just talking out of my ass here (but that's what these threads are all about anyway!), but doesn't scanning Griever reveal that he was created from Squall's own mind by Ultimecia?

Yes it does.
So really, there isn't so much an S=G theory, as there is a direct line from the game stating it to be fact?

[Skyblade]

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.
Perhaps I'm just talking out of my ass here (but that's what these threads are all about anyway!), but doesn't scanning Griever reveal that he was created from Squall's own mind by Ultimecia?

Yes it does.
So really, there isn't so much an S=G theory, as there is a direct line from the game stating it to be fact?

Saying Griever was created from Squall's mind does not mean that Squall is Griever. In fact, it pretty much blows that theory away. An idea and the individual who has the idea are too very different things.
Griever was a personification of an aspect of Squall's psyche. A collection of thoughts and images given form, nothing more.

[Iceglow]

I don't think Adel looked like that before she was imprisoned.
I also don't think she looked like that before he even gained her own powers. It cannot be possible. It's likely that she looked like a normal person before all this happened.
Therefore, when she was imprisoned for many years, her physical being has begun to evolve. Something in the imprisonment made her have tattoos, strange symbols, red eyes, and muscles, as a result for living ageless (paying the ultimate price.) How did she get muscles? Did she exercise and eat free food during his imprisonment ? Cannot be possible because from the FMV she was seen to be stuck in the same position. That is what imprisonment means for witches in VIII.

So, if you compare Adel to Ultimecia, you can see some similarities. That would explain why Ultimecia was imprisoned as well. Because if she wasn't imprisoned, she wouldn't have these tattoos and other things around herself (such as her horns.) Her imprisonment caused her to go crazy, going back to the past to rule the whole world for revenge and vengeance.

The only flaw is Zell's tattoos. How did he get them, and his tattoos really look like Ultimecia's tattoos. Rubah linked me to one of the interviews regarding his tattoos, but I'm suprised the writer didn't say anything about Ultimecia or Adel tattoos so they must mean something.

Ok firstly WTF thats nuts and wrong. Also as a second thing to look at: Watch when Laguna imprisons Adel as shown in a flashback granted by Ellone. Adel appears all muscly and screwed up then too! Not to mention that Adel was FROZEN solid probably with some kind of advanced machine induced Petrification And if she wasn't FROZEN solid and thus in a state where she needed no oxygen to breathe and no heat to pump blood around her body then exposure to 17 years or so in SPACE would certainly have killed her. In space any living being not only loses weight like crazy they also have a higher chance of developing brittle bones and cancer due to weightlessness and radiation sickness from the place. Hence the Lunar station has artificial gravity to allow extended visitations to there. Also when Squall releases Rinoa from the machine in Tears Point you see him clearly cutting something that sprays some kind of coolant mist probably some form of nitrogen or CO2. Dont ignore the events of the game when doing your theories it makes you look like an idiot. As for the Tattoo thing, well Zell probably decided it looked cool and got it maybe it has something to do with his martial arts techniques because after all he is the "monk" class of fighter and many martial arts cultures have specific markings/brands/traditions/tattoos to mark their followers. As for Adel and Ulti having tats too? Well they sure as hell help a person look intimidating and whats to say they didn't just manipulate the skin pigmentation with magic? It's plausible they've got the power to cause things to blow up without anything flamable being there.


I think the tattos are the same.That is because Zell is Ulti´s grandson.

That is the tattoo of the SeeD (SorcErEss Dinasty).

SeeD heritage is as follows:

Seifer et Almasie (Seifer D'Almasy) marries Ultimedea and gives birth to Ellone Rinva.
Ellone Rinva marries Sqvall giving birth to Zell
Zell marries Qvistix giving birth to Sophie
Sophie marries Irvine.

This 8 persons form SeeD.
This is a codename given by the Garden´special students but no one knows its real meaning.

WOW! Squall is so in love with Rinoa he took a SUICIDAL jump out in to space to save her life during a Lunar Cry what DESTROYED the Lunar Space Station but he marries Ellone? In game during the flashback at Winhill you see Laguna "speak" to Ellone's parents They died during the war and Raine took Ellone in. Therefore she is not related to Squall, in fact the whole idea of changing the past was to prevent Laguna chasing after Ellone leaving a pregnant Raine to give birth and die during the process of doing so to Squall. Changing that would have broken the time paradox and thus changed the future however that would probably have prevented Gabaldia "winning" the last Sorceress war though in reality I don't call what they call victory, victory. A former Gabaldian soldier managed to trick Adel and imprison her he then takes control of the country and withdraws all troops to end the conflict and makes Esthar disappear for 17 years. This part was to correct whoever claimed that she was the sister of Squall, she isn't he just called her Sis all the time when she was at the orphanage which is quite ironic because if Ellone hadn't been kidnapped from Winhill and Laguna not chased after her leaving Raine alone then Ellone would have been most likely raised as a sister to Squall. The rest is just weird random crap with no basing on anything but FE's sick perversions, The only accurate thing in there I would say is Selphie and Irvine getting married is possible but the rest is ridiculous also, during the end credits the SeeD Cadet seen in game as Zell's girlfriend who actually never features as anything but to disprove the theory of him being gay is sitting at his side when he's stuffing hotdogs down.



This is stupid

I'd like to QFT here.

[Comet]

Skyclaw ended this terrible thread a while ago.

[NeoCracker]

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.
Perhaps I'm just talking out of my ass here (but that's what these threads are all about anyway!), but doesn't scanning Griever reveal that he was created from Squall's own mind by Ultimecia?

Yes it does.
So really, there isn't so much an S=G theory, as there is a direct line from the game stating it to be fact?

Saying Griever was created from Squall's mind does not mean that Squall is Griever. In fact, it pretty much blows that theory away. An idea and the individual who has the idea are too very different things.
Griever was a personification of an aspect of Squall's psyche. A collection of thoughts and images given form, nothing more.

Never made it that far, and whenever I heard that line I took it literally as it was created from his mind, so it sounded to me like he was essentially a part of squall.

I guess at that point its really just semantics and how you precieve Grievers creation and such. Doesn't reallly support any grandoise theory either way though. :p

[Serapy]

The S=G thing is actually a fairly well known theory, as it is part of the infamous R=U theory.

I will admit that the actually S=G theory has a bit more credibility than the R=U theory in my opinion, so I do slightly believe in it as a possibility, but in order to fully believe it I need to believe the R=U theory, which I don't believe at all.
Perhaps I'm just talking out of my ass here (but that's what these threads are all about anyway!), but doesn't scanning Griever reveal that he was created from Squall's own mind by Ultimecia?

Yes it does.
So really, there isn't so much an S=G theory, as there is a direct line from the game stating it to be fact?

Saying Griever was created from Squall's mind does not mean that Squall is Griever. In fact, it pretty much blows that theory away. An idea and the individual who has the idea are too very different things.
Griever was a personification of an aspect of Squall's psyche. A collection of thoughts and images given form, nothing more.

The theory still stands. There's nothing in the game that states that Ultimecia possessed Squall, read his mind and created Griever out of it or that she can possess humans and thier minds (yes, there are a few cases, but such cases cannot be proved or disproved.)
However, the game has explicitly stated and displayed that Ultimecia can possess and read sorceresses' minds.

Therefore, the most logical assumption would be ...

Squall told Rinoa about Griever -> Rinoa learnt Griever out of Squall's mind -> more explanations from Squall -> Rinoa fully acknowledged the meaning of Griever -> Later into the game, Ultimecia possessed Rinoa -> Ultimecia fully acknowledged Griever.

She then created it in the final battle from that formation.

[Marky Tee]

ok i just have a question for those who say R=U

why if R was U would ulti have rinoa go out into space to free adel and then just let her drift off to certain death?

if this has already been addressed im a lazy guy and cba looking for it :P

[Skyblade]

The theory still stands. There's nothing in the game that states that Ultimecia possessed Squall, read his mind and created Griever out of it or that she can possess humans and thier minds (yes, there are a few cases, but such cases cannot be proved or disproved.)
However, the game has explicitly stated and displayed that Ultimecia can possess and read sorceresses' minds.

Therefore, the most logical assumption would be ...

Squall told Rinoa about Griever -> Rinoa learnt Griever out of Squall's mind -> more explanations from Squall -> Rinoa fully acknowledged the meaning of Griever -> Later into the game, Ultimecia possessed Rinoa -> Ultimecia fully acknowledged Griever.

She then created it in the final battle from that formation.

I was saying that it destroys the theory that Squall is Griever, which is the theory we were discussing. And it does. Squall is not Griever. Period.

I gave up discussing the R=U theory a long time ago.