Cloud...

[Dante WolfWood]

I just felt like posting this...out of all the main ff characters...Cloud's has got to be the biggest douche. He's just a royal Jackass! I've been reading all the topics about tifa and him being together and how he never did "really" get with her. Even after all the hell she went with for and with him. He was too busy thinking about himself and the mistakes he made in the past and not the others that cared for him and the future they could have.

To me, he's just a jackass:

Kicks like a old rusted pontiac and only cares about number one!

:mad2:

[Crimson]

Who cares about Cloud?



We all know that everyone played FFVII for Cait Sith.

[Raistlin]

Cloud was an idiot for most of the game, yeah. Though he was not obligated to "get with" Tifa regardless of her sacrifices, if he didn't want her that way (though I agree that she was better for him than Aeris).

Cid Highwind was the true hero of FF7 anyway.

[blackmage_nuke]

NO! RedXIII was the main character of FF7!

Tifa was quite a bitch as well so I guess Cloud and Tifa are perfect for each other

[Raistlin]

What did Tifa do that was remotely bitch-like? If anything, she was overly nice and shy (despite her appearance).

[blackmage_nuke]

Well I will admit I cant remember all too much about the characters anymore except RedXIII but I remember she was cold to Cloud when they were young and just let him believe that they were friends in his warped mind as well as every other lie Cloud said about Nimbelheim. Also the slap fight ontop of the cannon but that doesnt really count I guess. Also she wasnt very nice to Don Corneo, the second most main character!

[Dante WolfWood]

tifa was probably the best character in the game, IMO. She stood by him no matter what even after finding out he was a freaking looney and thought he was someone else.

Cid is the true hero though! although the sequels destroyed for me...(his voice, wheres the foul mouth!)

I'm just saying that because cloud is almost an icon when it comes to gaming. if you dont know who cloud strife is, you have lived in a closet (or outside) your whole life. And I just think he sucks :/

[Darkswordofchaos]

cloud did boink tifa, the one night under the highwind wile wating on every one

[Wolf Kanno]

I've always disliked Tifa and Cloud's relationship cause to me it seems to be a complete lie. Tifa goes on and on about Cloud being her childhood friend and when you finally see the flashbacks, you learn that Tifa hardly knew him. He was just one of many who hanged out with her and she even had a hard time remembering anything about him before he talked to her on the water tower. Yet even when the truth is revealed they go back to the whole "we were special friends" spiel they had been carrying around for the 2/3rds of the game.

So I feel her foundation for loving him is pretty shaky. Cloud can get away with forgetting important details cause he's afflicted with Jenova but what's Tifa's excuse? Her sole purpose in the title (besides T&A) is to reveal major plot points long after they should have been revealed and to forget important details until it becomes conveniently necessary. God she pisses me off...

[Bolivar]

I've always disliked Tifa and Cloud's relationship cause to me it seems to be a complete lie. Tifa goes on and on about Cloud being her childhood friend and when you finally see the flashbacks, you learn that Tifa hardly knew him. He was just one of many who hanged out with her and she even had a hard time remembering anything about him before he talked to her on the water tower. Yet even when the truth is revealed they go back to the whole "we were special friends" spiel they had been carrying around for the 2/3rds of the game.

So I feel her foundation for loving him is pretty shaky. Cloud can get away with forgetting important details cause he's afflicted with Jenova but what's Tifa's excuse? Her sole purpose in the title (besides T&A) is to reveal major plot points long after they should have been revealed and to forget important details until it becomes conveniently necessary. God she pisses me off...

True, but I feel it borrows from the real life experience of meeting someone from your hometown/school/whatever that you never really talked to, but really hitting it off based on that shared experience. Everyone goes through that, meeting someone at college or on your summer vacation from such, that you never talked to back then, but you guys really get along great now that the introduction was made.

When you add in the fact that Tifa and Cloud are really the last surviving people from the Nibelheim incident (Zangan not a native, and the others turned into mindless "clones"), that's a strong bond they share, and that's something you can build on.

I like how the developers kept the relationship open-ended, even in the movie Advent Children, where the audience is supposed to interpret their relationship based on how they play the game. And I always get Tifa at the Gold Saucer scene.

I kinda don't like how they made Cloud bitch out in that movie, though. After playing and beating the game, I just find it hard to believe he would go back into super loner-mood after everything he's been through and experienced. Maybe GeoStigma has something to do with that.

[Marky Tee]

squall was even more of a self centred bam than cloud

[The Turk]

So you think Cloud was a jerk, but like Cid?! Cid who treats Sherra like scum because, oh I dunno- making sure he didn't die. "Damn you Sherra, why aren't you making tea for these complete strangers who just barged into your house without knocking! Damn you woman!"


At least Cloud has an excuse for his aloofness, Cid's just a prat.

[Raistlin]

Cid made up for it by being badass and hilarious. He also ran funny.

[Dante WolfWood]

ya cid was just funny. plus in the end, it is hinted that they were in love and he cared for her deeply...even though he emotionally abused her on a regular basis >.> (Cid is from Alabama! j/k)

plus his duck run was funny. cloud wasnt amusing, bad, or funny. he just sucked :/

[Meat Puppet]

I guess another strategy of making the main character a kind of canvas for the player is to make him a bit of a bland jerk

[Dante WolfWood]

I guess another strategy of making the main character a kind of canvas for the player is to make him a bit of a bland jerk

ya I guess thats true...most people are jack asses :p

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Cloud's great.

[Jaffer]

I've always disliked Tifa and Cloud's relationship cause to me it seems to be a complete lie. Tifa goes on and on about Cloud being her childhood friend and when you finally see the flashbacks, you learn that Tifa hardly knew him. He was just one of many who hanged out with her and she even had a hard time remembering anything about him before he talked to her on the water tower. Yet even when the truth is revealed they go back to the whole "we were special friends" spiel they had been carrying around for the 2/3rds of the game.

So I feel her foundation for loving him is pretty shaky. Cloud can get away with forgetting important details cause he's afflicted with Jenova but what's Tifa's excuse? Her sole purpose in the title (besides T&A) is to reveal major plot points long after they should have been revealed and to forget important details until it becomes conveniently necessary. God she pisses me off...

True, but I feel it borrows from the real life experience of meeting someone from your hometown/school/whatever that you never really talked to, but really hitting it off based on that shared experience. Everyone goes through that, meeting someone at college or on your summer vacation from such, that you never talked to back then, but you guys really get along great now that the introduction was made.

When you add in the fact that Tifa and Cloud are really the last surviving people from the Nibelheim incident (Zangan not a native, and the others turned into mindless "clones"), that's a strong bond they share, and that's something you can build on.

I like how the developers kept the relationship open-ended, even in the movie Advent Children, where the audience is supposed to interpret their relationship based on how they play the game. And I always get Tifa at the Gold Saucer scene.

I kinda don't like how they made Cloud bitch out in that movie, though. After playing and beating the game, I just find it hard to believe he would go back into super loner-mood after everything he's been through and experienced. Maybe GeoStigma has something to do with that.

Uhm, before b*tching about their relationship, maybe you should get the full picture of their relationship first.

On the way toa smile: the case of Tifa, namely. Square has released a story that deals with their relationship and here's a spoiler: you guys didn't get single thing right.

[Wolf Kanno]

Jaffer: I'm afraid I don't recognize the Compilations existence cause its total rubbish that retcons half the stuff that was presented in the original game and thus creates a convulated mess that doesn't add up continuity wise without ignoring the original. Which is a terrible way to write an expansion if you ask me. :p

I can't speak for Bolivar but I feel he's just catering to my view cause he knows my feelings about this and doesn't want me to derail this thread into another "The Compilation sucks and exists to milk the VII franchise" rant that so many have had to put up with in this forums. ;)

[Jaffer]

I dunno the full story but the On the Way to a Smile light novels don't contradict anything that I'm aware off. That's why i brought it up. in the Case of Tifa Cloud is the fairly upbeat character that he's suppose to be.

[Dante WolfWood]

I dunno the full story but the On the Way to a Smile light novels don't contradict anything that I'm aware off. That's why i brought it up. in the Case of Tifa Cloud is the fairly upbeat character that he's suppose to be.


nothing worse than a HAPPY sarcastic jack ass!

[The Turk]

Cloud did actually lighten up after finding out the truth about his past. It was only because of his constant confusion and the fact he was being used like a puppet that made him so unemotional.

As for Tifa, she was fairly heroic standing by Cloud despite all the lies he told and having to remain quiet for fear of what finding out the truth would do to Cloud. Of course she is still a terrorist, so that undermines just how heroic she is.

[Dante WolfWood]

Cloud did actually lighten up after finding out the truth about his past. It was only because of his constant confusion and the fact he was being used like a puppet that made him so unemotional.

As for Tifa, she was fairly heroic standing by Cloud despite all the lies he told and having to remain quiet for fear of what finding out the truth would do to Cloud. Of course she is still a terrorist, so that undermines just how heroic she is.

ya I understand that, its the AFTER that pissed me off about him. even after all that he still doesnt go after her? and he still torn about aeris? YOU DIDNT KILL HER ANUS! IT WASNT YOUR FAULT! SUCK IT UP! THERES NOTHING YOU COULD HAVE DONE!!! btw, SHES DEAD, TIFA's NOT! (whew, sorry)

he sucks :p

and ya she was a terrorist but I still feel for her, I kinda understand why she did it as well. (still doesnt make it ok but)

[The Turk]

Did you miss the part where they talked for hours and hours under the Highwind before the scene implied they made out? I think it's safe to say that when this game ends we were meant to think they would get together.

[Dante WolfWood]

Did you miss the part where they talked for hours and hours under the Highwind before the scene implied they made out? I think it's safe to say that when this game ends we were meant to think they would get together.

well ya, I was slightly ok after the game (he still brought aeris up when tifa got closer...loser >.>) but you cant say that AC isnt canon. and then its all down hill :/

[Wolf Kanno]

Well according to the AC Compilation, their relationship is still in the air as Nomura and Nojima won't confirm the question of their relationship when directly asked. They are pretty much leaving it up to the fans I think and I feel this is actually a good idea for once.

[Jaffer]

Seriously though Geostigma was stated by Kadaj to effects a person mental condition. Cloud can't really be held responsible for that. Besides, he was DYING. Denzel had like month left and Cloud a little more. And non-GeoStigma Cloud does pretty much exactly what you guys want him too:

On The Way To A Smile: Case Of Tifa - Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children / FFVII AC / FF7 AC / Advent / AC (http://www.ffcompilation.co.uk/pages/novels/Case_Of_Tifa.php)

[Dante WolfWood]

I bet if cid was dying of lung cancer, he would still be the same foul-mouth, abusive, sky captain we grew to learn and love!

I still don't see that as an excuse really. I mean look at Tidus (Spoiler...well not really, game is old)

by the near end of the game, he knew that if he defeated sin and saved yuna from certain death, that he would die (hell not even die, but disappear) yet he still stood firm in what he needed to do; for yuna, his friends, and the whole world.

If Cloud was dying and so were many people, he should have been that more passionate on being there for everyone through such troubling times. I mean, he was a Jenova War-hero! he is one of the lights of spira! he has to be hope when there was no hope. but no, it was the same old mopey cloud that we grew to learn and hate :(

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm with Dante Wolfwood on this. I feel its understandable for Cloud to be reflecting on regret but I wish he had actually come to the realization of his accomplishments and get over blaming himself for events that were beyond his control (Aerith, Nibelheim). It just seemed like all the character growth he made in the game had disappeared and we were back on square one for some points.

I read "On My Way To a Smile" and though I agree its fairly good, I still feel we are seeing Cloud just descend back into his self pity. He lost all growth and it took Vincent and Marlene to finally get him to get off his ass and do something, he doesn't really start kicking ass until Aerith symbolically gave him the "thumbs up" by curing him in the church, and even then he doesn't beat Sephiroth until he threatens everyone he loves, its like the guy waits to the last minute to actually put effort into things and overcome his personal issues.

He really has it good if you think about it. Even though he's dying, he saved the world and he's with people he can be himself around. I really feel that Cloud's inability to overcome his own personal problems without some kind of external element has always been his weakness as a character. I just don't see real growth and the little that is there is not something I feel should be something you should be proud of.

[Jaffer]

Cloud really isn't in the same position as Yuna and Tidus. This isn't journey during which they can still have a few laughs and moments before they sacrifice themselves to save the world. This is Denzel and Cloud becoming bedridden and guided by random spasms of sephiroth, slowly and painfully turning into black gue. That's not something I'd want for Marlene.

[Wolf Kanno]

The problem lies in that Cloud has already given up. He doesn't spend AC running around looking for a cure, he's not helping Tifa or any of the children. He's quietly locked himself away from everyone and moved into the symbol of his guilt and regret. He decides his death is "divine punishment" and spends his fleeting time brooding over his mistakes and ignoring all he has done. He's literally forced by others who confront him to take action and this is something that he wasn't like at the end of VII.

In AC, he's just given up, and the whole film is about him being pushed by everyone including his own psychological weakness of taking the blame for anything that goes wrong; and finally being put into a "happy place" where he feels better but he never once resolves his problems. Cloud never stops and thinks, "you know what? It really wasn't my fault. Aerith and Zack are probably laughing at me now for taking all the blame. I need to move on." He never confirms with anyone that he is finally over his guilt. I still imagine he'll be brooding over something else the next time we see him in a VII sequel. Its like he lives to be miserable and it really gets annoying.

[The Turk]

Yes AC Cloud actually was a terrible character. But that is not the same character in VII. It may be the same person, but like Reno in AC he's not the same character and this topic started off being about VII Cloud.

Cloud may have began VII as an ass, but he grows up a lot as a character once we finnaly meet the real Cloud he goes from a slef doubting guy whimp into the natrual born leader he always could be. Don't do what Square did when they made AC- forget all about his character's growth.

[Jaffer]

The problem lies in that Cloud has already given up. He doesn't spend AC running around looking for a cure, he's not helping Tifa or any of the children. He's quietly locked himself away from everyone and moved into the symbol of his guilt and regret. He decides his death is "divine punishment" and spends his fleeting time brooding over his mistakes and ignoring all he has done. He's literally forced by others who confront him to take action and this is something that he wasn't like at the end of VII.

In AC, he's just given up, and the whole film is about him being pushed by everyone including his own psychological weakness of taking the blame for anything that goes wrong; and finally being put into a "happy place" where he feels better but he never once resolves his problems. Cloud never stops and thinks, "you know what? It really wasn't my fault. Aerith and Zack are probably laughing at me now for taking all the blame. I need to move on." He never confirms with anyone that he is finally over his guilt. I still imagine he'll be brooding over something else the next time we see him in a VII sequel. Its like he lives to be miserable and it really gets annoying.

Though I don't like AC Cloud either you are reading WAAAAY to much into this.
He says he's not fit to help anyone, that there is no cure but what he says most of all is that he wants to be forgiven. That's not along the lines of what you're saying, he's contrasted with Vincent who flt out states that never tried to be forgiven. And you really should check out the Complete version.

Watch Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete (Dub) | Watch Anime Online (http://www.animesfree.com/final-fantasy-vii-advent-children-complete-dub/)

Marlene says that what he was doing while away actually WAS looking for a cure and he doesn't deny it. And most of all after the credits he comes to the place where Zack died with Denzel and when Denzel asks him what this place is Cloud says "This is where a hero started his journey." Refering to himself.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yes AC Cloud actually was a terrible character. But that is not the same character in VII. It may be the same person, but like Reno in AC he's not the same character and this topic started off being about VII Cloud.

Cloud may have began VII as an ass, but he grows up a lot as a character once we finally meet the real Cloud he goes from a self doubting guy whimp into the natural born leader he always could be. Don't do what Square did when they made AC- forget all about his character's growth.

I interpreted it as Cloud as a whole since the original poster never implied this was exclusively about VII. Besides, I think most of us would have assumed Cloud made it with Tifa had the Compilation not come into being. :p

I agree to an extent. Cloud does have a few moments after he finds himself where he speaks pessimistically and doubts his own abilities and usually Tifa, Barret, or Cid have to knock him out of it.



Though I don't like AC Cloud either you are reading WAAAAY to much into this.
He says he's not fit to help anyone, that there is no cure but what he says most of all is that he wants to be forgiven. That's not along the lines of what you're saying, he's contrasted with Vincent who flt out states that never tried to be forgiven. And you really should check out the Complete version.

Watch Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete (Dub) | Watch Anime Online (http://www.animesfree.com/final-fantasy-vii-advent-children-complete-dub/)

Marlene says that what he was doing while away actually WAS looking for a cure and he doesn't deny it. And most of all after the credits he comes to the place where Zack died with Denzel and when Denzel asks him what this place is Cloud says "This is where a hero started his journey." Referring to himself.

I have issues with a movie that has to be remade to tell the story right, so I don't think highly of ACC as it sounds to me it was created to appease the major complaints of the original film.

This just goes against my ideas of writing and how I don't really believe in going back to a film and fixing the mistakes that were noticed from hindsight. Especially when the gap between the original and remake is very short. It just tells me SE knows they screwed up.

But once again, Cloud doesn't come to his own realization by himself. He has to get a pep talk from Vincent (who should really listen to his own advice since he's just as bad as Cloud) and even then Cloud really doesn't start to get back into his old groove until he's cured, which he basically interprets to mean he's "forgiven" which doesn't make sense since he never did anything wrong in the first place. His guilt is self-inflicted and has no basis in reality. He really thinks the two happiest people in the VII universe would hate him for events that happened outside of anyone's control? It doesn't make sense.

[Jaffer]

Yes AC Cloud actually was a terrible character. But that is not the same character in VII. It may be the same person, but like Reno in AC he's not the same character and this topic started off being about VII Cloud.

Cloud may have began VII as an ass, but he grows up a lot as a character once we finally meet the real Cloud he goes from a self doubting guy whimp into the natural born leader he always could be. Don't do what Square did when they made AC- forget all about his character's growth.

I interpreted it as Cloud as a whole since the original poster never implied this was exclusively about VII. Besides, I think most of us would have assumed Cloud made it with Tifa had the Compilation not come into being. :p

I agree to an extent. Cloud does have a few moments after he finds himself where he speaks pessimistically and doubts his own abilities and usually Tifa, Barret, or Cid have to knock him out of it.



Though I don't like AC Cloud either you are reading WAAAAY to much into this.
He says he's not fit to help anyone, that there is no cure but what he says most of all is that he wants to be forgiven. That's not along the lines of what you're saying, he's contrasted with Vincent who flt out states that never tried to be forgiven. And you really should check out the Complete version.

Watch Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete (Dub) | Watch Anime Online (http://www.animesfree.com/final-fantasy-vii-advent-children-complete-dub/)

Marlene says that what he was doing while away actually WAS looking for a cure and he doesn't deny it. And most of all after the credits he comes to the place where Zack died with Denzel and when Denzel asks him what this place is Cloud says "This is where a hero started his journey." Referring to himself.

I have issues with a movie that has to be remade to tell the story right, so I don't think highly of ACC as it sounds to me it was created to appease the major complaints of the original film.

This just goes against my ideas of writing and how I don't really believe in going back to a film and fixing the mistakes that were noticed from hindsight. Especially when the gap between the original and remake is very short. It just tells me SE knows they screwed up.

But once again, Cloud doesn't come to his own realization by himself. He has to get a pep talk from Vincent (who should really listen to his own advice since he's just as bad as Cloud) and even then Cloud really doesn't start to get back into his old groove until he's cured, which he basically interprets to mean he's "forgiven" which doesn't make sense since he never did anything wrong in the first place. His guilt is self-inflicted and has no basis in reality. He really thinks the two happiest people in the VII universe would hate him for events that happened outside of anyone's control? It doesn't make sense.

Not being held accountable by people out of the kindness of their heart =/= not being responsible. His inability to fight Sephiroths control despite setting out with the rest of the company in stow to try and stop the person who could control him is the reason Aeris died and his inability to cope with Mako enhancements despite setting out from Nibelheim to become a SOLDIER and get said Mako enhancements is the reason Zack died.

Sure, everyone and their mom told him that it wasn't his fault without giving it a moment's thought. I wouldn't have felt very reassured either.

But this IS Cloud's role in the story, the least confident person in AVALANCE, that first needs hear from everyone, up to and including Cid and Barret not even remotely constructive insults, Cait Sith and Yuffie's absurd comments and Vincent's everpresent "..." before he'll take action. That's how everyone's presence is validated. They made a movie and to incite this again they had Sephiroth create a disease that explicietly makes someone depressed and let Cloud be effected by it.

But I don't see how you think he only came into his own after he was cured. As far as I see his change came as soon as he said "Marlene, let's go."