Who was the better?

[Dante WolfWood]

I know, I have posted too many things about cloud and ya this might be a dumb question but me and a friend were talking about it and its been stuck on my mind ever since...

Who is the better hero? Cloud of FF7 or Link of LoZ? this might sound simplistic at first but ponder for a moment at the differences of the two:

Cloud is a boy who dreamed of being in soldier at a young age but who just couldnt cut it. he watched basically everything he loved get destroyed in front of him and is horribly experimented on and thrown into a emotional and mental rollercoster. after a series of events, he awakes with false memories of being a soldier with exceptional fighting abilities. later on, he learns that he is a "Clone" of his very enemy of who he was chasing the whole time,that he was horribly mutated through experiments, helps his enemy almost accomplish his goals, and fails to protect a girl that he loved (friend or more, who cares) who also was the planet's only hope. Most people would look at him and never call him a hero. plus he always feels alone in his battles and would rather do things solo, even though he does have many friends who care for him. Lastly, Cloud often comes off as a person who has no purpose. he thinks he is not strong enough to protect those he loves and often question his resolves

Needless to say, Cloud is (was) a walking failure. BUT he somehows manages to push through and protect what is dear to him and manages to save the world and face his own failure and fears. Alot of people can relate to him on personal leve and love that aspect of him.

and alot of people think he is just a big whiny crybaby (me). either way, his impact as a hero is huge on the gaming community.

Now look at Link. We will use elements from all games to describe his character. He is a chosen hero of the hyrulean people and has the triforce of courage within his disposal. Thus allowing to take on all fear (some say he just doesnt have fear, but that might be too far) and to acquire skills that are almost impossible for any mere human to have. Link almost never fails to accomplish his goals. through courage, Spiritual selection, and a will to never to lose, he always comes out on top. Needless to say, In his "world" he is, almost undefeatable. Link, by selection, is a lone hero yet is never lonely. he almost always has companions or people that he looks up to and that he would kill to protect. Another special trait of Link is, he always sees his goal and will go after it no matter what. He never second guesses his role as a hero.

Needless to say, Link is THE knight in shining armor (tunic?) and is a natural hero. Alot of people can relate to that type of hero because it is a type of hero we all desire in our life, in some manner or some way.

And alot of people dont like him because he is a unrealistic person, no one is perfect. Plus, to pull the master sword, which is his weapon of choice, you must be of pure heart and have no evil thought or desires. Link in all essence is immaculate, which no one on earth can relate to.

So here's my question: which type of hero do you prefer or you can relate to more? Natural skill or mutated power? spiritual selected soldier or the underdog champion? unquestioned resolve or passionate desire to protect those who are dear even through tribulation? He who is destined to win or he who is destined to fail yet perseveres?

I personally prefer link, I have always been a person who prefers "knight in shining armor" hero and growing up, most books and games had that type of hero.

what about you and why?

and please note, this is not a "who will win in battle thread".

[Captain Maxx Power]

You're new here aren't you? I feel I should explain; while the name, forums and design of the site may suggest this is a place we discuss Final Fantasy related things, in general we don't. Ever. Not that you're not free to do so, but people might think you're a bit odd if you do.

[Dante WolfWood]

You're new here aren't you? I feel I should explain; while the name, forums and design of the site may suggest this is a place we discuss Final Fantasy related things, in general we don't. Ever. Not that you're not free to do so, but people might think you're a bit odd if you do.

:p actually I used to be here awhile back and was a frequent poster and just recently came back. I have actually noticed that most ff discussions have died down. there is only so much you can talk about. XD

I just wanted some opinions about it, its not really the Characters that are the question, but your idea of a hero. :rolleyes2

[SomethingBig]

Pardon my on topic response. :p

FFVII is one of my favorite games, and even enjoyed Advent Children on a very superficial, ooooh-lookit-the-purdy-pictures level. I also thought Cloud was awesome as hell. However, I'd have to say that Cloud isn't half the man, let alone half the hero, that Link is.

For 80% of the game, Cloud is just walking around in someone else's shoes, gets manipulated, kills that person's woman, and then spends most of the final moments of the game in a coma. Not to mention that throughout the majority of the game, he just didn't seem to give a damn about anything.

Link, on the other hand, is often portrayed as a simple, innocent child that's called to arms by fate. When he's asked to safe Hyrule, he doesn't ask for money, he doesn't go out on his trusty steed expecting payment. He fights fire-breathing dinosaurs, 3-headed dragons, evil, despotic sorcerers, and at the end of the day, has time to stop the moon from crashing down on his world. He goes out for 3 reasons:
1- To save the world.
2- To save his woman.
3- Because he's the smurfing hero of time.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Link is a stock Chosen One, who ventures to save the world, has every door laid open for him, and inevitably succeeds because he's supposed to. That's boring.

[Momiji]

Boring? Yes. That doesn't make Cloud better though. ;D

[Brennan]

A five to ten year old who goes out on a quest to save the world, or a twenty-one year old who complains about everyone?

Link wins, although I will give Cloud the factor that I was addicted to LoZ when I was a kid, but kudos to Cloud for being a walking failure, and still trying to succeed, and in the end, succeeding.

[Crimson]

Your comparing an elf cosplaying Robin Hood to a spiky haired cross-dresser.


Neither, they both fail.

[Raistlin]

Link never made me want to smack him over the head, so him.

[Wolf Kanno]

Can't say I care for either. Cloud is a basket-case who can't seem to get over his personal demons until its 10 minutes too late, and has that annoying habit of blaming himself for :bou::bou::bou::bou: that was outside his ability to control.

Link on the other hand is an archtype hero, which means he has no real personality. He's basically the same character in every game fighting the same villain... Course I can say the same thing about Cloud.

They are actually more similar than they should be. Though at least Link is upfront two dimensional while Cloud is overly complex but still comes off annoying and unsympathetic to everyone but the hearts on their sleeves type. They both fail...

[Vermachtnis]

Link, his girlfriend has been a pirate and a ninja.

[Wolf Kanno]

^ The man brings up a valid point...

[Dante WolfWood]

Link, his girlfriend has been a pirate and a ninja.

lol that is true :p

on a side note; the comment about his bland personality: they did that so you could "inject" your personality and your thoughts into his situation. Thats why I really love OoT, because of all the potential love interest set before him and in your mind, you can decipher which one you would go after as link. It is kinda corny and its not a major element in the game but I believe it is a neat concept.

[Edge7]

I prefer Link, mainly because his character is really what you want it to be. It also helps that I've been playing TLOZ more than I had ever played FF7 :D.

I do like Cloud's character, a walking failure who seems to face himself and accept who he is to come out on top, but with Advent Children, and Dissidia, Square has really changed Cloud's character to that of someone who can never find happiness.

With Link, you're supposed to assume what he's thinking from his facial expressions (in the newer games) and what his actions are. I find Link's "character" to be more consistant.

[ljkkjlcm9]

"Link" is never (okay there are exceptions) the same person though. He is the Hero of Time, which changes depending on when it is. Basically, Link is chosen because he IS those things. The guy who is around that will be that brave and selfless etc, becomes the guy with the Triforce of Courage. You know exactly who he is, what he is, and his goal.

Cloud on the other hand is a failed experiment. Pretty much the opposite of Link. He's got so many problems it's absurd. And was he successful? I think that's up for debate. What was really his goal anyways?

THE JACKEL

[PeTeRL90]

Colton's mom.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Cloud was only a failure in terms of getting into SOLDIER and serving as a satisfactory subject for Hojo's experimentation. The latter is something anyone would hope to fail (the alternative meaning being reduced to a muttering zombie wrapped in a black shroud), and the former was negated by the revelation near the end of the game that he was stronger than anyone else ever dreamed anyway.

[Dante WolfWood]

Cloud was only a failure in terms of getting into SOLDIER and serving as a satisfactory subject for Hojo's experimentation. The latter is something anyone would hope to fail (the alternative meaning being reduced to a muttering zombie wrapped in a black shroud), and the former was negated by the revelation near the end of the game that he was stronger than anyone else ever dreamed anyway.

I believe his lack of moving on from his guilt and not accepting his past makes him a failure, in the category of being hero. A hero is not someone who is just strong and powerful, but also can put hope in people and make them feel that it is worth pushing on even when it is impossible. Cloud still acting his same gloomy way after saving the world comes off almost as if it wasn't worth it. Atleast to me it does.

[krissy]

nah he's just introverted and a little too modest

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

I believe his lack of moving on from his guilt and not accepting his past makes him a failure, in the category of being hero. A hero is not someone who is just strong and powerful, but also can put hope in people and make them feel that it is worth pushing on even when it is impossible. Cloud still acting his same gloomy way after saving the world comes off almost as if it wasn't worth it. Atleast to me it does.

This is why Advent Children doesn't count. Cloud became a ray of sunshine once he figured himself out in FFVII.

He rallied the party before the final boss by saying, "Let's mosey."

[Dante WolfWood]

I believe his lack of moving on from his guilt and not accepting his past makes him a failure, in the category of being hero. A hero is not someone who is just strong and powerful, but also can put hope in people and make them feel that it is worth pushing on even when it is impossible. Cloud still acting his same gloomy way after saving the world comes off almost as if it wasn't worth it. Atleast to me it does.

This is why Advent Children doesn't count. Cloud became a ray of sunshine once he figured himself out in FFVII.

He rallied the party before the final boss by saying, "Let's mosey."

well, I guess it is just how you look at it I suppose. I haven't played ff7 in awhile, but I dont remember cloud still being completely over himself during the final chapter of the game. yes he did have a new resolve and he wasnt going to back down, but there still seem to be a studder in his step.

also, its if you consider AC or not. I take AC as canon because it is by the developers of SE. some people might not. I wont gig anyone for not accepting it, but it is still a factor nonetheless.

and even if it is just based off of ff7, it still a question of who is the better hero?

A underdog failure who comes on top?

or a courageous young knight called to arms by his destiny?

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

Someone who's been haunted by the shame of his own weakness to the point of his conscious mind unraveling, only to delve into his psyche and discover that he'd been completely wrong about himself: when it was most important, he had been strong. Self-doubt bested by internal redemption.

Or, someone who gets interrupted from sleeping in one day to go become a hero, which he does, immediately, because that's what fate says.

[Raistlin]

This is why Advent Children doesn't count. Cloud became a ray of sunshine once he figured himself out in FFVII.

At the end of disc 2 with like 10 minutes of story left. :p


He rallied the party before the final boss by saying, "Let's mosey."

Yeah, just another negative for him.

[KentaRawr!]

Link saves Hyrule, but Cloud saved the woooorld, man!

[Madame Adequate]

Cloud. I wouldn't care if all he said was word-for-word lifted from the Nuremberg Rallies, the fact that he says a word makes him superior.

Both are, however, equally beloved by me when Rule 63 comes into play.