Elements, I wonder why they didn't do this.

[MJN SEIFER]

The book lists the elements as being Fire, Ice, Lightning, Water, Earth, Wind, Gravity, Poison (that's an element?), and Holy.

On the game however only Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Gravity, Poison, and Holy have there own Materias (in the context "Holy" refers to "Cure") Why weren't Wind and Water included? I realize there are attacks used by enemies (one of them as an Enemy Skill) and Summons that are water and wind, but no magic on their own...

[seiferalmasy2]

Chocobo/Moogle is a wind elemental (and you can place this on weapon and armour using elemental materia).

Holy is actually alexander (and not curative magic). Holy affects dark creatures. It can again be placed on weapon or armour.

You also have to understand that "element" is what the english translation team called it. It is NOT what it is in the japanese game.

Elemental > ぞくせい　> [in discussion]
[lit. Attributes. The unique characteristics inherent in the nature of the object in question.]

ぞくせい attribute, context, earthly life, growing gregariously, growing in clusters, secular surname, this world.

The original elements are: Fire, Air, Water, Earth.

But in FF games, the english localisations ahve made all the attributes an "element". IN other words, the confusion and problem lies in translation.

[MJN SEIFER]

I apprecitate your reply seiferalmasy2, but did state I was aware of the summons and wasn't including them, I literally meant a materia that would have said element as "Something, Something 2, and Something 3" (or "Something Somethinda and Somethinga" I guess :p) Substiute "Something" for a name for the elements.

Thanks for correcting me on "Holy" and the term elements (I really didn't know it was translation thing.)

[seiferalmasy2]

Well thing is game didn't make a distinction between the attributes in a materia. So having it in a summon is no different to a magic.

Of course, they probably did want to do more, but time constraints most likely made it so they couldn't :)

[Big D]

Aero, Aero2 And Aero3 exist - but only certain monsters use them.
I guess they didn't bother with separate materia for every element because there were simply enough materia already. Adding more would've just over-complicated battle - you might end up spending twice as long flinging spells at an enemy in an attempt to discern its weaknesses, and it'd also be rather difficult to protect your own characters against elementals because there'd be more options than materia slots.

Also, having a "holy elemental" materia would've caused significant confusion regarding Aerith's white materia.

[seiferalmasy2]

Well there is an Holy materia- alexander.

But yes it would have been more complicated. There were a lot of things in FF7 dropped or not completed (1:35 Shinra soldier) due to time constraints.

FF7 does have a tutorial built in which explains each and you can place each of them onto a weapon or armours.

The elments (attributes) are:

Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Wind, Water, Holy, Gravity

(poison is a status magic not an attribute/elemental)

I Don't buy the holy vs aerith connection because there are TONS of references to Meteor in the game which are nothing to do with black materia.

[Crimson]

As far as I know, Aqualung is the only Water elemental attack that the party can use.

[Big D]

Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Wind, Water, Holy, Gravity


(poison is a status magic not an attribute/elemental)Poison is an 'element' in FFVII, but not in the other titles. It's unique in being both an element and a status.
I Don't buy the holy vs aerith connection because there are TONS of references to Meteor in the game which are nothing to do with black materia.There's 'comet' materia, but the only 'meteor' references are directly connected to the Black Materia.
As far as I know, Aqualung is the only Water elemental attack that the party can use.And Leviathan:)

[seiferalmasy2]

Poison is an 'element' in FFVII, but not in the other titles.
---------

Poison (Element) - The Final Fantasy Wiki has more Final Fantasy information than Cid could research (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Poison_%28Element%29)

I stand corrected (but it was both on VIII also?). Although it doesn't seem to be listed on the elemental screen inside ff7 (or does it, I can't check at moment). It seems to come under status screen only. And can it be used with the elemental materia? It is very wishy washy that it is an "element" on VII, but regardless, Element is not even what they should be called.


There's 'comet' materia, but the only 'meteor' references are directly connected to the Black Materia
--------

Firstly, "Comet" materia is actually "Meteorite" (possibly meteor, haven't discussed this yet) in the Japanese version and all references to "Meteo" are Meteor.

Even discarding this fact, there are references all over to meteor, most notably "meteorain" limit break and those of Tifa.

The Japanese game makes it clear that all Instances of "meteo" in the english version are "meteor"

There may not be any materias named meteor (if you don't count meteroite), but there are plenty of references. Holy is a defined Elemental (attribute) in VII and can be equipped using Alexander, so it is very unlikely that this is a reason for not having a holy materia.

Imho the biggest reasons are the game was already big enough with what was on offer and they had no time left to do more stuff.

[Elly]

a lot of people mistakenly assume 1/35th Soldiers means that there are supposed to be 35 Soldier figurines to collect but all that are in the game are all you were meant to collect... 1/35th is a modeling scale meaning every 1 inch of the figure or model equals 35 inches on the real thing, meaning a 2" figure would equal a 70" (5'10") person, people who build models know what i'm talking about... sure a few things were dropped or left unfinished but the 1/35th Soldiers were not among them...

for the topic at hand, doesn't some of Tifa's Limit Breaks have the water property as well?.. not sure if i was stoned or half asleep but i think i remember Dolphin Blow healing a water property monster in one of my playthroughs, but it was so long ago i'm not sure anymore...

[Raistlin]

I guess they didn't bother with separate materia for every element because there were simply enough materia already.

This seems most likely to me. Who even used much elemental magic after disc 1? The elements just didn't play as big a role in FF7 as in some other RPGs (where you use second-and-third level elemental spells for a significant portion of the game). Besides, a lot of games only focus on a few of the elements to begin with.

[seiferalmasy2]

. sure a few things were dropped or left unfinished but the 1/35th Soldiers were not among them...
.


Actually they are. It states clearly that there are 12 in a set and you collect 2 on the field. It is obvious that they wanted to place 12 in the game but never did so.

I am not sure how accurate the rumour is, but apparently having 12 gives you free soldiers at fort condor.

[Elly]

12 in a set could also be descriptive like how a package may say "12 in a set - collect them all"... unless something was explicitly stated by the staff that there was intended to be 12 collectable soldiers in game this remains only fan speculation... and i speculate that it's just descriptive text for a toy product symbolizing ShinRa's marketing of their image as the good guys even to the children, much like our American Military is doing right now...

[seiferalmasy2]

"There are 12 in a set" can't really be taken any other way, but I did hear having 12 (you can gain the rest at speed square) makes soldiers free at Fort Condor. I am not sure how accurate this rumour is.

[leader of mortals]

"12 in a set" is only referencing real world toys, nothing within the game itself. Also, the rumor that you stated, about the soldiers at Fort Condor, is quite obviously false, as are countless other rumors about FF7, especially when they are about unreachable goals in the game. People like streching thier imagination, and sometimes people don't know if that is what they're doing.

Also, to comment about the materia issue, I agree there should have been some materia for every element(and poison is an element, as it is in FF8), but, as Big D said, there were already enough materia and having materia for every element just didn't seem needed. There are still ways to use wind attacks and water attacks, so it isn't a very large problem.

[The Turk]

So we have:
Fire (Fire, Flare, Phoenix, Ifirit, Kjata, Beta, Flamethrower, Magic Breath)
Ice (Ice, Freeze, Shiva, Kjata, Magic Breath)
Lightning (Bolt, Ramuh, Kjata Trine, Magic Breath)
Earth (Quake, Break, Titan, Kjata Magic Breath)
Holy (Cure, Full Cure, Alexander, White Wind, Angel Whisper)
Gravity (Demi, Lazer)
Poison (Bio, Bad Breath, Hades (?))

Water (Leviathan, Aqualung)
Wind (Choco/Mog, Typoon, Tornado)

Water not being in the game is easy to explain as there are hardly any enemies who are weak against it anyway. Wind would be much more usefull as there are plenty of flying enemies, however you'll have to make do with the Contain materia and items.


Also in VII there is the one hidden element too...

[loza]

Wasn't it originally Fire, Fire2, Fire3?

Like way back in FF1? Did they just want to go back tot he basics?

[seiferalmasy2]

"12 in a set" is only referencing real world toys, nothing within the game itself. Also, the rumor that you stated, about the soldiers at Fort Condor, is quite obviously false, as are countless other rumors about FF7, especially when they are about unreachable goals in the game. People like streching thier imagination, and sometimes people don't know if that is what they're doing.

I did not start that rumour. It has been going ages, and the goal IS reachable (speed square can get you the other 10 that you need). "12 in a set" is literal. I will be testing the rumour soon.

[Kyros]

I'm pretty sure tornado from the contain materia was wind (though not like I ever used it), but flare has always been nonelemental in all FFs I think (contrary to a few posts above).

[seiferalmasy2]

I'm pretty sure tornado from the contain materia was wind (though not like I ever used it), but flare has always been nonelemental in all FFs I think (contrary to a few posts above).

I just checked the main program file

Flare: Fire
Tornado: Wind 8/63 chance of Confuse
Break: Earth 8/63 chance of Petrify
Freeze: Ice 8/63 chance of Stop

I am not sure if it tells you that in the information window. but certainly, flare is fire going by the PC version (and I suspect very high liklihood that it is fire in PSX)

[Kyros]

Yeah I just looked it up. Flare is nonelemental in almost every FF but in VII it's fire. I still didn't use it b/c attack magic is useless endgame imo

[Christmas]

In FF games, usually non-elemental(Ultima) magics are the thing we should look forward to. :bigsmile:

[leader of mortals]

"12 in a set" is only referencing real world toys, nothing within the game itself. Also, the rumor that you stated, about the soldiers at Fort Condor, is quite obviously false, as are countless other rumors about FF7, especially when they are about unreachable goals in the game. People like streching thier imagination, and sometimes people don't know if that is what they're doing.

I did not start that rumour. It has been going ages, and the goal IS reachable (speed square can get you the other 10 that you need). "12 in a set" is literal. I will be testing the rumour soon.

I said stated, not started.

[seiferalmasy2]

"12 in a set" is only referencing real world toys, nothing within the game itself. Also, the rumor that you stated, about the soldiers at Fort Condor, is quite obviously false, as are countless other rumors about FF7, especially when they are about unreachable goals in the game. People like streching thier imagination, and sometimes people don't know if that is what they're doing.

I did not start that rumour. It has been going ages, and the goal IS reachable (speed square can get you the other 10 that you need). "12 in a set" is literal. I will be testing the rumour soon.

I said stated, not started.

I should know better than that :P sorry.

[leader of mortals]

"12 in a set" is only referencing real world toys, nothing within the game itself. Also, the rumor that you stated, about the soldiers at Fort Condor, is quite obviously false, as are countless other rumors about FF7, especially when they are about unreachable goals in the game. People like streching thier imagination, and sometimes people don't know if that is what they're doing.

I did not start that rumour. It has been going ages, and the goal IS reachable (speed square can get you the other 10 that you need). "12 in a set" is literal. I will be testing the rumour soon.

I said stated, not started.

I should know better than that :P sorry.

Yeah that's right! *Puffs out chest and acts big and bad*

And I guess Square figured there were enough materia(as Big D stated before and I agreed with), so they just threw in Contain, for the elements they were too lazy to have. Really, I hardly ever play to weaknesses in this game, so the lack of a certain element's materia never really bothered me.

[Tokimadoushi]

FFVII played hell on my OCD...

9 characters, 9 elements, but no Aero, Water or Holy?! Curse it all!!! How am I supposed to build my team where every character has their own element now? How?!! It was an evil plot by Square, I say, to drive people like me insane. :eek:

[seiferalmasy2]

in fact the aero spell only appears once in the game by Rapps. Aeroga

[Sephiroth]

Wind (Choco/Mog, Typoon, Tornado)

Ultros' legendary Mr. Chupon is not wind-elemental. It is fire-ice-bolt-earth-elemental. And although cure spells are something an undead enemy doesn't like it is not the same as the holy element. And indeed, Hades is the poison element.



9 characters, 9 elements, but no Aero, Water or Holy?!

There are enough magical spells and items with these elements. Alexander, Leviathan, Aqualung, Dragon Scales, Choco/Mog, Tornado, Aero3, Bird Wing, et cetera.