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View Full Version : rock band, guitar hero etc.



Xalibar
09-15-2009, 03:52 AM
What's the appeal of these games. I don't understand why people go crazy and gaga over it. I see people getting up on stage with their friends, not to play actual music themselves, but to hook up rock band and play for their audience. Couple years ago i read an article about a 16 year who quit high school so he could go on tour playing rock band. It's so stupid.

So what is the appeal of it?

JackNapier
09-15-2009, 04:07 AM
It's a simulation, people love simulations. What I think the appeal is for any simulation is that it gives the user a chance to live through and do certain things which they might never do in real life. The process of mastering an instrument is too overwhelming to some, so they play music sims instead.

Keep in mind, this is just what I THINK the appeal is, as I don't enjoy these games either. I'm on the outside looking in.

Madame Adequate
09-15-2009, 04:10 AM
It's hard to explain. They never appealed to me until I ended up with a copy and at first I was ambivalent. Then I played a bit and once I started getting somewhat decent found that it was a lot of fun.

It's a little bit of that rockstar feeling but you have to put in hours of effort rather than years.

rubah
09-15-2009, 04:10 AM
It's fun like any challenging game is fun. Plus you get rewarded with the proper sounding music if you do it well.

People enjoy playing air guitar, so it shouldn't be a stretch to imagine them enjoying guitar hero xD

Wolf Kanno
09-15-2009, 04:11 AM
To allow people who lack talent or skill to feel for a moment like your favorite rock star. I generally like the games though I feel they are being marketed a little too aggressively. I just read about Guitar Heroes V and I don't even remember Guitar Heroes IV being released. :confused:

I was also surprised when Rock Band 2 came out a year after the first game was released which seemed really silly to me. Some people just get overly obsessed with games. I remember all the media fire on Everquest and WoW.

Shiny
09-15-2009, 04:14 AM
Gaming threads aside from Square games go in General Gaming Discussion, brah.

The appeal is simple...people in general are fascinated by the rock star lifestyle whether it be the girls, the sex, the drugs, or the fame, they eat it up. I think many people like the fact that they can pretend to be a rock star and get a feel of it even if it is with a smaller, plastic instrument. It's also a bonus that they can play songs that like listening to over and over. With that said, I've played it before but it's not really my thang.

Kirobaito
09-15-2009, 05:41 AM
It has appeal because it's fun. I like the challenge.

Hell, I perform music, actually on stage, and that doesn't somehow make GH/RB less fun for me. I don't do it because it makes me feel like a rock star, because being a rock star is not something I want to be. I'm not living vicariously. I'm playing a game. The game is fun.

Steve
09-17-2009, 02:58 AM
To answer the question of what makes these games appealing we must first boil down the games to the purest essence. In essence what Guitar Hero and Rockband both are, are merely rhythym/time puzzle games, piece together the notes in the right order at the exact right time to produce the music you are playing. Merge in to this the game Singstar which had huge popularity especially in Japan where Karaoke is extremely popular and you have a great marketing ploy. If people ask where the market for such games could be well look around next time you're in a game store and see:

Tetris - the original rhythym/time trial based game essentially control the blocks to avoid towering too high and losing the game within the alloted time limit.

Mr Driller - drill down through the ground to a set depth before air runs out or the precariously balanced bricks above crush you.

Columns/Gems/Any number of tetris rip offs - read tetris desc.

Brain Training - Complete challenges in a time limit, the lower the reaction time of the gamer the faster they'll get it right the younger their brain is.

Bomberman - heck do I need to keep on, we can throw silent bomber, and a whole host of other puzzle/simulations/arcade games in on this list too.

Basically, people like challenges, challenges keep us entertained because at heart all people are competitive whether they're a fat loser with no ability to compete at anything else or a jock who has it all we all wanna compete. Guitar Hero and Rockband basically provide people with a chance not only to compete with each other but with themselves, people get sucked in to managing to complete the game. Also to note to complete a song on any difficulty no one can tell you how to get better or how to do it you can't read a FAQ or a guide or a Brady games book. When youre good at GH/RB you're GOOD it is 100% skill based some people never move above easy, some master expert the fact is you have to learn to gain skill to do so. I have never seen anyone pick up the control and play anything through to the end on anything other than easy first time and even then most people fail horribly because even with the tutorial in game they're just not expecting it.

Edit for WK: Guitar Hero IV was released as Guitar Hero World Tour, the Aerosmith game was made from the exact same engine as Guitar Hero 2 even though Guitar Hero 3 had been released. Guitar Hero Metallica was made from Guitar Hero World Tour however so it could incorporate the various other instruments apart from Guitar and Bass. Ironically, Guitar Hero got steadily more difficult as it progressed to Guitar Hero 3, however many players commented that Guitar Hero 3 was in fact TOO difficult and had become less enjoyable, I think much of this came from Japan where they often play games more but in a more casual way noticable by the inclusion of very easy modes and european extreme modes of game difficulty found in other game series, Normal in the west is often the Hard settings in Japan. All of this means for Guitar Hero World Tour and onwards they toned the difficulty way down, in fact by the time you Play Guitar Hero Greatest Hits (also on the World Tour engine) Through the Fire and Flames by Dragon Force is particulary easy to see how different it is from in GH3 and it does play much easier, On GH3 I have a lot of difficulty playing songs on Medium still where on GH World Tour onwards I find it not necessarily easy but considerably more comfortable to play on Medium but then I hardly play my 360 atm let alone GH.

Shattered Dreamer
09-17-2009, 12:27 PM
I can accept the argument for liking Guitar Hero/Rock Band. People love simulation blah blah blah. People find the task of learning an instrument too difficult blah blah blah. But the fact of the matter is to get very good at these games takes practice & dedication. I mean I've played these on Expert & certain songs are close to impossible at times. But the idea that people will put in the hours practicing a video game & won't put in the hours practicing an actual instrument. Its bull$h*t the argument holds no water people are just lazy!

Guitar Hero/Rock Band are a lot of fun to play with a group in a party or social situation. But the party or social situation that surrounds playing in a actual band is so much better! I mean come on which sounds more impressive? Hey man I can beat the Dragonforce song Through Fire And Flames on Expert on Guitar Hero or hey man I can play Through Fire And Flames on guitar solo's included. No contest.

I love gaming! I love gaming a whole lot but if anyone who sits & plays Guitar Hero for hours on end tells me they play these games because they think actual instruments take too much practice & dedication, I'm gonna stick the plastic guitar where you won't find any fire & flames!

Let the flaming of this post commence:tongue:

kikimm
09-17-2009, 06:51 PM
For me, and my friends, it has nothing to do with OH I WANNA FEEL LIKE A ROCKSTAR FOR AN HOUR. No. I don't want that. :p It's just...fun. Like any other game! And many people I know that play it also play real instruments. Only people who aren't serious about music will play rock band in lieu of a real instrument. :p

Slothy
09-17-2009, 07:13 PM
Let the flaming of this post commence:tongue:

Well if you insist. :p


But the fact of the matter is to get very good at these games takes practice & dedication. I mean I've played these on Expert & certain songs are close to impossible at times. But the idea that people will put in the hours practicing a video game & won't put in the hours practicing an actual instrument. Its bull$h*t the argument holds no water people are just lazy!

The argument certainly does hold water because people are lazy or have no interest in learning a real instrument. And of course there are those who aren't that coordinated, or totally lack rhythm when they don't have a scrolling note chart or have all the creativity of a ballpoint pen. The list of reasons people might not want to learn an instrument could be numerous. On the other hand, you can be a video game player who puts in less time than it takes to beat an average RPG and be playing at least some, if not most, of these songs on Expert. That's a much lower time investment than learning any instrument with the level of proficiency required to play even 1/4 of the songs in the games (well, except maybe the Bass parts :D). Not only that, but you can work your way up the difficulties which means you get a sense of instant gratification. Gratification in learning an instrument is generally delayed by a good margin.


I mean come on which sounds more impressive? Hey man I can beat the Dragonforce song Through Fire And Flames on Expert on Guitar Hero or hey man I can play Through Fire And Flames on guitar solo's included. No contest.

Of course one is more impressive than the other, but do I have any desire to learn how to play Through the Fire and Flames on a real guitar? Hell no, and I already play Drums and Piano which would technically reduce my learning curve dramatically. For me, I have very little fun trying to learn guitar. I'd love to know how to play, but I don't enjoy learning it like other instruments, hence I may never bother. I'll be happy to put in the relatively miniscule amount of time required to play Guitar Hero with any proficiency though because learning the game is actually fun.


I love gaming! I love gaming a whole lot but if anyone who sits & plays Guitar Hero for hours on end tells me they play these games because they think actual instruments take too much practice & dedication, I'm gonna stick the plastic guitar where you won't find any fire & flames!

Again, if you're somehow implying that the amount of practice and dedication required to learn an instrument isn't far, far more than that required to play Guitar Hero reasonably well then I'm going to have to laugh at you. I mean you're welcome to think that, but it doesn't mean you're any less wrong.

Shattered Dreamer
09-17-2009, 07:43 PM
The argument certainly does hold water because people are lazy or have no interest in learning a real instrument. And of course there are those who aren't that coordinated, or totally lack rhythm when they don't have a scrolling note chart or have all the creativity of a ballpoint pen. The list of reasons people might not want to learn an instrument could be numerous. On the other hand, you can be a video game player who puts in less time than it takes to beat an average RPG and be playing at least some, if not most, of these songs on Expert. That's a much lower time investment than learning any instrument with the level of proficiency required to play even 1/4 of the songs in the games (well, except maybe the Bass parts :D). Not only that, but you can work your way up the difficulties which means you get a sense of instant gratification. Gratification in learning an instrument is generally delayed by a good margin.

Last time I checked you need basic rhythm to play Guitar Hero, actually the entire gameplay of the game is based on hitting buttons in a certain order while hitting the strum button in time. What skill is need for such rhythm maybe? I'll admit that learning to play any instrument & master it takes years & years of practice & dedication but if you put same amount of effort into playing most songs (bar maybe the 80's heavy metal ones) on Guitar Hero on Expert you could learn them on a guitar. Playing a song on a real guitar will give you way more gratification then playing it on a game.

There is a big difference between mastering an instrument & learning to play a couple of songs. I never said anywhere in my first post that the time it takes to get awesome at Guitar Hero if the same amount of time was invested in actual guitar playing you'd be Brian May good. Just said I'd clear that up:rolleyes2:D


Of course one is more impressive than the other, but do I have any desire to learn how to play Through the Fire and Flames on a real guitar? Hell no, and I already play Drums and Piano which would technically reduce my learning curve dramatically. For me, I have very little fun trying to learn guitar. I'd love to know how to play, but I don't enjoy learning it like other instruments, hence I may never bother. I'll be happy to put in the relatively miniscule amount of time required to play Guitar Hero with any proficiency though because learning the game is actually fun.

Through Fire & Flames was a mere example, I play guitar I don't want to learn it since Dragonforce are a bunch of guitar w*nking show offs. Given that you don't play guitar you can't see this argument from a guitar players perspective;):p


Again, if you're somehow implying that the amount of practice and dedication required to learn an instrument isn't far, far more than that required to play Guitar Hero reasonably well then I'm going to have to laugh at you. I mean you're welcome to think that, but it doesn't mean you're any less wrong.

You're entitled to your opinion even if its narrow minded:D:tongue::roll2

Shattered Dreamer
09-17-2009, 07:47 PM
For me, and my friends, it has nothing to do with OH I WANNA FEEL LIKE A ROCKSTAR FOR AN HOUR. No. I don't want that. :p It's just...fun. Like any other game! And many people I know that play it also play real instruments. Only people who aren't serious about music will play rock band in lieu of a real instrument. :p

I probably should have read kikimm's post before I bothered fighting my corner. Argument resolved I reckon :D

Bolivar
09-17-2009, 08:45 PM
I get the appeal, and I spent countless hours on Guitar Hero II my sophomore year at college.

I personally think the music selection of both franchises has gotten ridiculous and for the beetles rock band to be a major release of this fall is sad for the state of video games.

Raistlin
09-18-2009, 01:22 AM
It's a challenge, and some people find that fun in and of itself. I couldn't care less about feeling "like a rockstar" or all that crap and at first I was very skeptical about it, but then I played it and enjoyed the stimulation and skill required.

Shlup
09-18-2009, 07:17 AM
Being silly with your friends is fun. You can only get so into racing games and such, but when you're a "band" you can go nutters and make real asses of yourself.

I guess you'd have to have friends to understand.

(Ohhh, that burn's gonna need some ointment, budday.)

Slothy
09-18-2009, 11:47 AM
I'll admit that learning to play any instrument & master it takes years & years of practice & dedication but if you put same amount of effort into playing most songs (bar maybe the 80's heavy metal ones) on Guitar Hero on Expert you could learn them on a guitar. Playing a song on a real guitar will give you way more gratification then playing it on a game.

Yeah, you could put in the amount of time it takes to learn a song on Expert and probably learn the real song in most cases. Assuming you know the instrument that is, and you can't just ignore that step in comparing how long each takes and lambasting people for not wanting to spend years learning before learning their favourite songs. Most people couldn't care less about learning an instrument but enjoy the fun of pretending to be a rockstar and the challenge of the games which still take far less time to master than learning an instrument.


I never said anywhere in my first post that the time it takes to get awesome at Guitar Hero if the same amount of time was invested in actual guitar playing you'd be Brian May good. Just said I'd clear that up:rolleyes2:D

No you didn't, but you certainly seem to imply it when you try comparing the effort put into mastering a Guitar Hero game to that spent learning songs on a real guitar. The fact is though, and it's a point that seems lost on you entirely, is that as I said above, most people couldn't care less about learning an instrument. Most couldn't even care less about playing Guitar Hero songs on Expert. These aren't games that require months of practice to master. You spend maybe a few weeks playing them, then they're something you haul out when friends are over (unless you're life is completely sad) so that everyone can join in.


Through Fire & Flames was a mere example, I play guitar I don't want to learn it since Dragonforce are a bunch of guitar w*nking show offs. Given that you don't play guitar you can't see this argument from a guitar players perspective;):p

I realize this part was somewhat tongue in cheek, but I understood the argument just fine. You missed my point that people who don't want to learn guitar don't care if learning it on a real guitar is more impressive. For them, learning it in the game is more fun.


You're entitled to your opinion even if its narrow minded:D:tongue::roll2

I don't feel my opinion is narrow at all. Most people have no desire to learn an instrument so your argument that they should dedicate their time to one instead is ridiculous. Besides, the last thing the world needs is more rhythmless guitar players making the rest of the band look bad. :p

Breine
09-18-2009, 03:54 PM
It looks like fun, but I've never tried it myself. Neither Guitar Hero or Rock Band.

Some of my friends have it, though, so maybe I'll try it at their place some day. Just not interested enough to actually buy it myself.

NorthernChaosGod
10-11-2009, 02:06 PM
They're really fun games to play. That's what games are for, they're a form of entertainment.

And I don't get the argument where people bring in real instruments to the mix. Do people feel that Gran Turismo players should go out and race for real? Or that Madden players should join the NFL?

They're video games.