Does any one else realise it,s fucking Star Wars?

[Joethulhu]

The story starts out pretty original, but the first similarity is the music. When you let the opening go, this game's version of the Final Fantasy theme begins like the celebration music from Star Wars IV. Several other songs sound familiar, but I won't recite them now, mostly because I don't feel like it.

Now for the story. Okay, besides the basics of an Empire and a Rebel Alliance, there are still a lot others.
Remember rescuing Ashe on the Dreadnought Leviathan? Hmm, I seem to remember something, once again from Star Wars IV, where some other people did the same thing with another princess! SURELY it's a coincidence, RIGHT?

Some characters have drastic similarities, also. Vaan is Luke, Balthier is Han Solo, and Fran is Chewbacca. AND BALTHIER'S A SMURFING SKY PIRATE. WITH A SMURFING BIG SHIP THAT FLIES.



Granted, though, FFXII does have original parts, like everything until you escape the Nalbina Dungeon. It also doesn't rip off EVERYTHING, so you guys tell me, am I right or is it just my RAGE at this game for being an adequate Real-Time RPG with Final Fantasy slapped on the cover.







On a side note, Balthier's name would be pronounced BAHL-THEE-EHR if you follow Japanese grammar, but everyone in the game says it BÁL-THEER. Why?
And yet, ddespite my anger at this game, I really want to play it, if only because of the empire's hilarious Britishness and the fact that Balthier's dialogue is the best since "this guy are sick", in my opinion at least. Sorry for ranting so much, I swear I'm done.

















For now.....

[Wolf Kanno]

You're wrong... XII technically rips off FFII which was the game that originally ripped off Star Wars.

Believe me, after you finish the Dreadnought mission and get your full party it isn't really Star Wars anymore. Also, Vaan is a poor Luke Skywalker and Balthier is more Roger Moore style James Bond than Han Solo. Yes there are similarities but when it comes down to it most of it is pretty shallow after awhile and everything becomes its own thing eventually.

[Fynn]

It seems to me like somebody serious issues regarding the new battle system (which is still actually more turn-based than real-time, mind you)...

[Marshall Banana]

More than one Final Fantasy installment references or has similarities to Star Wars. =O

I think it's pretty neat!

[Kyros]

On a side note, Balthier's name would be pronounced BAHL-THEE-EHR if you follow Japanese grammar, but everyone in the game says it BÁL-THEER. Why?


I'm not saying this is wrong, just made me laugh a little b/c reminded me of the ignorant people saying Zidane was pronounced zi-dan-ay b/c if you spelled it like that in Japan that's how it would be, but these people didnt look up the katakana to see it was spelled Jitan in Japan and the 'e' was added (and most letters changed since many letters/syllables are pronounced differently in Japanese then in English) for pronunciation when changing languages just like Balthier changed from "Balflear"

[black orb]

Vaan is Luke, Balthier is Han Solo, and Fran is Chewbacca. AND BALTHIER'S A SMURFING SKY PIRATE. WITH A SMURFING BIG SHIP THAT FLIES.
>>> Lol..

[Joethulhu]

I am aware of the fact that FF2 did the Star Wars thing first, but it still seemed more original to me than 12. And yes, I'm being inconsistent with my numbers.
I don't really have a problem with the battle system, I thought it didn't fit Final Fantasy. It's still turn based, but I prefer random battles. Leveling up was easy though, I remember spending 10 hours straight auto leveling in the Dreadnaught. I am playing it the first time, though. I'm at the tomb of King Whatsisface, and I've just discovered the ultimate win button of boss battles: Quickenings.
I am also aware I'm being a bit of a hipocrite in relation to Balthier's name, but even the japanese spelling isn't BÁL-THEER. I don't feel like sounding it out. And that al as in Albert. (adelbertsteinerhehehe) Sorry. I'm actually learning Japanese, so I would know, I just don't feel like it.
And you're right about Vaan, I just had to put someone in the role of Luke for my purposes, and they both have blond hair and come from a dessert environment, and that's GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. (imagine me pouting here, it's what I would do in real life)
And despite aforementioned RAGE at this game, I kinda like it. Although that demon wall didn't make any sense and ripped off FF7.
I also agree abou Balthier being more of a James Bond, if only because of his Britishness and puns. BUT FRAN BEING CHEWBACA MUST NOT BE IGNORED. Oh, and he IS a sky pirate, Solo was a smuggler, and Balthier has the Strahl, while Solo has the Millenium Falcon.
I'll be commentating more as I play the game; I'm becoming fast addicted to it.
Also, on a side note, Aerith/s had a similar name thing. Su is the Japanese equivalent of th, so therefor Aerith. The translators being idiots (This guy are sick!), they didn't know this. Me, first time, I called her Aeris. When doing some research, I saw that the Japanese was Aerisu, aka Aerith, I had to replay the game to change my save, even if she's dead by then.

Wait, who would Penelo be?

[Wolf Kanno]

Balthier and Han Solo are similar only in face value. Except for them both having a fuzzy partner people wouldn't mind sleeping with :shifty:

Also, (cause I'm feeling "saucy" and a bit of an ass tonight) the Demon Wall is a boss originating from FF IV. VII just referenced it like XII did. That's the other oddity of XII is that it has several clever in-jokes and references to the whole series. Read the names of some of the Mark Hunts and you will notice a majority of them are named after (and even partially taken) from previous FF games. Not to mention the names of the airships reference different FFs. The Empire's are named after the classic summons while the Rebel armies ships are named after heroes and villains from previous FF games (mostly FFV).

Quickenings are pretty powerful in the beginning of the game when you get them but I wouldn't overly rely on them. The later Mark Hunts and boss fights are won much easier by using good strategy and conserving MP for buff/debuff spells. In fact, start using debuffs in this game cause they actually work for once. You can cripple n over-powered boss by inflicting Blind and Sap on them as your party wails on them.

As for Penelo... Part of me wants to say she's C-3PO but she's nowhere near as annoying. Ewok maybe?

[Joethulhu]

He still stands out as Han Solo to me, no matter what. And as for that last remark... You don't wanna know the kinds of porn I've seen.
About the wall thing:
Really? I never got too far in IV, I stopped... I think at the dungeon after the infamous "spoony bard" line. I just don't really like it. No idea why.
I've heard stuff like that about Quickenings, and I'm TRYING to not rely on them, but sometimes I'm just bored of fighting and want to finish the fight so I just switch out to the unused party members and skip to the end.
I knew the thing about the ships too, here's my basic reaction to it:
Balthier: It's the Ifrit!
Me: Ifrit's in this game!?!? Where!?!?
I haven't really done any marks except the one you have to do, but once I get back to Rabanastre I'm going to attempt some.
Penelo's not awesome enough to be an ewok. Hmm... She can be Random Soldier # 76.

[nik0tine]

How the hell is Vaan luke? Because he has blond hair? He hardly even plays a part in FFXIIs story line.

[Marshall Banana]

As for Penelo... Part of me wants to say she's C-3PO but she's nowhere near as annoying. Ewok maybe?
What kind of Star Wars fan are you? C-3PO is great! :mymelslap:

[Quindiana Jones]

A triple 15 Quickening chain enabled me to defeat the White Flan thing at level 15, thereby enabling Fran to use the Yoichi Bow LOOOOONG before she should be allowed weapons that good. Kinda like how Quickenings killed the first Demon Wall, enabling me to get a few Demonsbanes, which were only replaced at that refugee camp mountain thing. Quickenings are life-savers when you're up against an enemy that is way out of your league. Just difficult enemies should be taken on using buffs and debuffs. Like Wolf Kanno said, FF12 is the ONLY FF I've played that I frequently use buffs and debuffs. Thank you Gambits.

[Joethulhu]

Well, I'm really just kidding about Vaan being Luke. I just needed someone to prove my point, and he's the only one who even barely fits. If anyone can give a better suggestion, I'd be happy to hear it.

As for C-3PO, I never found him that annoying, but I can see why someone would. I think the only person Penelo would fit is C-3PO, so I'm afraid we'll have to put her down as that.

So, as it stands:

Vaan = Luck (for now)

Balthier = James Solo

Fran = Chewbacca

Ashe = Leia

Empire = Empire

Whatever they're called in this game = Rebel Alliance

Oh, and Gabranth is Darth Vader. Really. Just look at him.

People left out:

Bash?

Vossler? (Maybe a rebel general)

...can't think of more for some reason...

[Namelessfengir]

starwars still entertains me after twenty years where XII has be given indefinite exile to the stack along with midnight club and lotr the two towers

[Zora]

Basch=Obi-wan? He's the oldest, a mentor of sorts, and has fallen from fame, and has seemingly had run-ins with the Darth Vader equivalent prior to the game's beginning. But he doesn't die, unlike Obi-wan.

Vossler is... Lando perhaps?

[Fynn]

The real question is... Who is Larsa, the single best thing about FFXII?

[Quindiana Jones]

Larsa is, honest to God, the collective term for Ewoks. As in, "Hey Luke, did you see Chewbacca getting raped by that Larsa of Ewoks last night? Hilarious!".

FACT.

[Joethulhu]

LARSA IS R2D2.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

I suppose Basch is Obi-Wan, I considered it, didn't put it down because of the differences, but he could only be Obi-Wan.

Vossler... as Lando? I COULD see that, but Lando didn't try to kill everyone else.

[G13]

starwars still entertains me after twenty years where XII has be given indefinite exile to the stack

Quoted for truth.

After 100 hours of game play and 1 stolen memory card, exile is better than a broken disc (only for the collection though).

Star Wars wise, Penelo is about as much use to XII as the R2 unit who couldn't hold his load long enough to help out Uncle Owen is to IV. :colbert:

[Joethulhu]

I'm a total geek for knowing this, but it was an R1 unit.

[Namelessfengir]

I'm a total geek for knowing this, but it was an R1 unit.

it was an R4

the R1 was that big ass green pos.... looked like a water heater on wheels

[G13]

I'm a total geek for knowing this, but it was an R1 unit.

it was an R4

the R1 was that big ass green pos.... looked like a water heater on wheels

Right you are Namelessfengir. I can't believe I forgot that. :D

[Namelessfengir]

i was wrong it was r5-d4 also known as skippy the jedi droid who blew his motivator so that fate would work out as we saw

[Quindiana Jones]

"blew his motivator" sounds filthy. :jokey:

[Joethulhu]

...Wow. You guys amaze me. I don't know my droids as well as I thought I did, it seems.

[Raistlin]

You are all terrible, terrible nerds.

And there is no way Vaan is Luke, because Vaan is about pointless to the story partway through the game.

[Quindiana Jones]

Vaan is completely pointless, except for the introduction of superior party members. It's a shame he's such a great tank really.

[G13]

i was wrong it was r5-d4 also known as skippy the jedi droid who blew his motivator so that fate would work out as we saw

You sure about that?

*Checks*

D4, that's what I was thinking of not R4.

Damn, you deserve a shiny title that says "Keeper of Star Wars knowledge".

[Joethulhu]

*ahem* Hello. I am back from self-imposed exile to explain Vaan = Luke. I agree he is pointless. Vaan, that is. The fact still stands that he is the main character. And he is an orphan. Being raised in a desert area. So, not really many similarities, but he had to be someone.










And he's blonde.

[Wolf Kanno]

But Vaan's not the main character... the development team has even stated that XII really has no actual "leading man".

From a story standpoint. Lady Ashe is the true main character cause the main goals and drama of the game are all about her. Vaan's plot ends once the party reaches Bhujerba and afterwards he's more of an observer until the very end with all the adult characters actually taking center stage.

Even when they were discussing who to put in Dissidia for XII, Vaan was not even a consideration. They were going to go with Balthier instead, despite Basch being the original lead character.

Saying Vaan is the lead in XII is like trying to decide who the main character is in VI and god knows no one likes being in that :bou::bou::bou::bou: storm of a discussion...

[Ouch!]

Vaan is completely pointless, except for the introduction of superior party members. It's a shame he's such a great tank statistically the most powerful character in the game really.

I think it's funny when people say something ripped off of Star Wars because Star Wars itself is hardly innovative in most any way. The whole plot follows a very formulaic model and lends little originality in the way of story-telling in the first place.

FFXII has a remarkable amount of depth to its plot. It's too bad that it gets hidden behind characters like Vaan who forcibly take center stage when they really have no business whatsoever being there.

Edit: I'd also argue that Basch is more of a leading character than Ashe. The beginning and end of the game both tend to focus on his circumstance more so than any other. Ashe is merely a means by which Basch can redeem himself.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yes, I do agree that Basch is still one of the major players but I feel the zenith moment of emotional expression in the game is the Sun-Cryst scene at the Pharos and despite Basch and Balthier both getting some great moments, its the part where Lady Ashe makes her final decision that is the centerpiece of this moment. ;)

Its not just the fact the plot is about her situation its also that the main conflict is more about Lady Ashe deciding what to do. Should she get revenge or save her kingdom? I don't feel that Basch or Balthier have such moral dilemmas, they both have made their choices of what to do long before the game started and both stick to their code. Ashe grows while Basch and Balthier are just plain awesome.

[Urgent Picnic]

Character-wise, there's a ton of similarities, far more than just the main party. Spoilers abound:








Vaan & Penelo = C3PO & R2D2. Two insignificant ancillary characters through whom the audience is introduced to the world, players & plot. Star Wars stole this narrative device from The Hidden Fortress.

Basch = Obi-Wan/Luke hybrid. Obi-Wan in that he's an old school knight who fought many battles during the previous wars, now looked upon as unwanted/unseemly (for Obi-Wan, he was the crazy old desert guy, for Basch, he's a jailed traitor). The Luke portion of the character comes into play via family connection to the Darth Vader of the story - Gabranth, and in being the primary male "good guy." Unlike Balthier, Basch's motives are genuinely "good" all the way through the story.

Ashe = Leia. "Princess" & leader of the rebellion, yet not your typical damsel in distress. Very in charge, tough & bossy.

Balthier = Han Solo, smuggler/pirate who only looks out for himself, goes through the overall "redemptive" arc by the end and attempts to sacrifice himself so his friends can live.

Fran = Chewbacca, furry co-pilot from a species that lives in the trees.

Gabranth = Darth Vader, traitor to his original kingdom, badass armor, family connection to one of our heroes, etc. Not the only "Vader" styled character though.

Vayne Solidor = Emperor Palpatine, became Emperor through trickery by destroying the Imperial Senate, was aided by Vader (er I mean Gabranth) in doing so.

Larsa Solidor = Closest thing in the story to Lando. At first you meet him as some kind of friend to the rebellion, then discover he is loyal to the Empire and you wonder if he's a good guy, only to discover as the story goes on that yes - he is in fact a good guy.

Ba'Gamnan = Boba Fett, bounty hunter who is after Baltheir (Solo), right down to the color scheme of green red & orange.

Stahl = Millennium Falcon.

Leviathon = 1st Death Star (imprisoned Princess, then goes kaboom).

Judge Ghis = Moff Tarkin, another in charge player of the Empire, overly confident about the destructive power of a new weapon of the empire, ends up exploding on the Death Star (Leviathan) during an attempt to use said destructive power.

Bahamut = 2nd Death Star (surrounded by giant space fighter battle, goes kaboom).

Gran Kiltias = Pseudo Yoda, wise spiritual elder to whom a character must go to in order to become a true Jedi Knight. In this case, Ashe must go to him in order to truly become Queen.

All other Judges = Jedi Knights of the Republic, now an evil empire, who continue to serve, rather than be killed off by the new Emperor. Granted, that doesn't happen in Star Wars, but it's still the basic idea. Judges = Jedi. it's just inverted. In Star Wars, one Jedi (Vader) stays with the new order and the rest are killed. In FFXII, only one Judge doesn't go with the new order, and is thusly killed.

Dr. Cid = Another Darth Vader, slightly crossed with the Emperor. The Vader portion comes in the idea of him being revealed 2/3 of the way through as father of one of our heroes, and that he was not always the evil man he is now. However, unlike Vader, he wasn't trying to "save" his family in his fall so much as he was completely selfish and looking for power. He has a touch of Palpatine in him in his motivations here, plus he is the source of the power for the bad guys - he's the one that figures out how to use nethicite.

Occuria = Jedi ghosts. Only jerks. And more of them.



Now if only I could figure out who is Jabba the Hutt.......

[DK]

Balthier is not Han Solo, he is Ace Rimmer. :mad2:

[Skyblade]

I never really bothered to draw the comparisons out this much, but I don't think anyone is really surprised by them. This game has been compared to Star Wars ever since the opening video was leaked and we saw that it was just bits of Episode I with some minor editing changes (and not the few good bits of that movie either).


Balthier is not Han Solo, he is Ace Rimmer.

Balthier has not quite reached that level of awesomeness yet. I feel he could reach it, if the writers were willing to give him more to work with, but they seem decidely set against working him up as a character anymore (Revenent Wings and his FFT appearance weren't as kind as some of the other character's recurrences were). It's sad.

[G13]

Balthier is not Han Solo, he is Ace Rimmer. :mad2:

I remember that hidden scene where Balthier surfs a crocodile in mid air and saves Vaan from the Judges! What a guy!