Careers and Education in Game Design

[Depression Moon]

Hey everyone. I've been taking a game design class since August 25th at my local community college because I have intent to work in that field. It took me a while to find out that this school had offered a game design certificate and I almost missed the chance to be in it.

Now that I'm finally in it, I have some mix reactions about this course. For one this is the first time my college is having this class and you could tell if you were there. We actually haven't done much work in this class yet. We actually haven't even started building a video game yet. Our class was divided into seven groups that we call companies that are each run be a CEO. I'm not one of those guys. Anyway, what we've mostly been doing is writing down our plans for the game with storyboard, art, and the script which I'm in charge of doing.

Our instructor showed us this software called Scratch (http://scratch.mit.edu/) that's what we're supposed to be using. On the website it said that it's aimed for children and from what I saw on the website, it's to make boring flash games.

We had a guy come in who made flash games too to talk to us one day. He told us about the process of making those games, keeping your team interested and stuff like that. He didn't show us any gameplay of any his games, but he did show us his concept art for a solitaire game he made.

Besides from that we hadn't done much of anything, well I guess that's not true. My teacher has been out several times too and whenever he was out we played Street Fighter IV. YouTube - STREET FIGHTER 4: BISON (John) VS RYU (Tim) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoYNxtRJ3kI)

But what I came here to do was make games and I just found out that we won't be going to the next couple of classes. I'm serious about getting into the industry and I want to work my ass off making games to prepare. I'm thinking I went the wrong school, but I guess it's too late right now.


This thread is for anyone else that has experiences with game design or game programming classes and to discuss any interest you have in it.

[Rostum]

Imo, pure game design courses are utter balony.

If you really want to get into the video game industry, you need to decide what you want to specialise in and where your skills and talents lie.

Are you a programmer? Are you an artist? Are you more logical minded or creative minded? It all applies, and I can garantee you a pure game design course will not offer you the skills that you require to actually get into the industry.

For the last three years I've been studying a Bachelor of Interactive Entertainment - which involves a lot of media for 3D environments, mostly focused on games. It's a huge undertaking, you really have to go in expecting to learn heaps every single day. I've worked my ass to the bone, and now I'm a lead artists in an indie game we're developing for competitions and festivals. And I am also one of the main generalist artists in a games studio that makes games for the iPhone.

So what am I trying to say? Well, if you want to get into the games industry, you are going to find it incredibly hard via a game design course. You need to specialise and you need to be able to come out of the course with a great protfolio - even then you will find it hard to get into the industry. Most of the lead roles, and I am talking about a game designer, have been in the industry for at least 10 years and did not start out as a game designer and would not have had a degree that had anything to do with games (a lot of people at places like Pixar, and I am willing to be most of the video games industry don't even have a degree in anything to do with games, they would have done a fine arts degree if they are an artist).

I hope this helps, and I hope you make the right decision and be reminded that you will be working your ass off to get anywhere, so don't treat any course you do like high school. Treat the course as if you are in the industry (60-80 hours a week)...

Cheers.

Edit: Oh, just on a side note. I've met a few lead level designers and they all started out by just modding current engines (Half-Life, Quake, UT2k4, UT3, etc. etc.). So, also considering learning to mod levels (hell, even finding some people to create content for you, I am sure there are a lot of artists out there that want a medium to present their art). It's an idea at least.

[Depression Moon]

Are you more logical minded or creative minded?

I'm more of the creative type. I like writing and coming up with ideas about the gameplay and level design. If you're saying I need to specialize I guess it would make sense if I were to go for my creative fields, but I was wondering that game employers are mostly looking for programmers and animators. I hate programming, but I am taking a course in animation too, but I haven't done much work on that either as I have the same instructor for that class too.

If I were to present what I want to specialize in like my writing or level design how would I do so? The closest thing I've done yet is making levels in Little Big Planet which has great game modding, but I feel as though it's not the real deal since the game doesn't let you create an entire game from scratch, which is true. Any advice?

[Ouch!]

I'm more of the creative type. I like writing and coming up with ideas about the gameplay and level design. If you're saying I need to specialize I guess it would make sense if I were to go for my creative fields, but I was wondering that game employers are mostly looking for programmers and animators. I hate programming, but I am taking a course in animation too, but I haven't done much work on that either as I have the same instructor for that class too.
Please note the following is not meant to be discouraging at all. I'm just trying to toss in a dose of reality.

I'm afraid that your decision making is going to have to become quite a bit more focused than you seem to be realizing. If you ever expect to approach video game development as a possible career path, you have to find where in the development process you best fit. You say you're interested in story writing, gameplay development, and level design. I think you're severely underestimating the amount of specialization you're going to be forced to adopt.

Take a look at any video game's credits. Even for smaller design studios, you don't see the same name listed under all three of those fields. Hell, I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to find the same name listed under two of the three. If you're serious about making this your career and not merely a hobby, you're going to have to make a decision at some point.

That said, I think the more important question to ask yourself is exactly how highly developers are going to value any sort of degree in video game design? More importantly, since it's the first time your community college has offered this course, it's probably not even worth your time and effort. As Omecle has already said, a degree in video game design isn't looked upon with any particular amount of respect in the video game industry (I'd imagine most of the people working in the industry don't have a degree in game design not because it's worthless, but because such courses didn't exist); imagine then how they'll react to a degree in video game design from a college they've likely not even heard of.

I think Omecle is right on the ball here with his advice. If you want to be an artist, major in fine arts. If you want to write scripts for a game, major in English or do a creative writing program. Obviously, familiarize yourself with programming as that's a large part of the process and it will make you more useful in the long run, but try not to have unrealistic expectations. A lot of people think that because they like playing games they're really going to enjoy making them as well, but they're not always aware of what exactly that requires.

I can't provide much of a perspective from the artistic or programming side, but if you plan on writing for games, keep in mind that if a game has a story, it's typically fleshed out by the individual who has the main concept for the plot. This individual (frequently, as I understand it, called the scenario director) will then oversea the rest of the story's development. Don't fool yourself into thinking he actually writes out a large portion of the dialogue like a screenplay for a movie. Game developers, especially the big name developers, will hire freelance writers to write the dialogue.

You need to decide where you want to ultimately end up, and then you need to research how exactly one gets there. You're not going to start as the person who writes the plot. You're going to be that guy writing the dialogue for some other guy's story. That's just something you need to keep in mind throughout your pursuit of this career.

[Depression Moon]

You say you're interested in story writing, gameplay development, and level design. I think you're severely underestimating the amount of specialization you're going to be forced to adopt.Take a look at any video game's credits. Even for smaller design studios, you don't see the same name listed under all three of those fields. Hell, I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to find the same name listed under two of the three. If you're serious about making this your career and not merely a hobby, you're going to have to make a decision at some point.

Yeah I understand that. I just didn't want to be limited to one thing in case I'm bad in one area or it might be harder for me to get employment in one versus the other. I know I probably won't be working two jobs at the same place.


You're not going to start as the person who writes the plot. You're going to be that guy writing the dialogue for some other guy's story. That's just something you need to keep in mind throughout your pursuit of this career.
I'm fine with that just about everyone has to start from the bottom.

I guess I'll try the programming too, but if you had saw some of my previous threads when I was taking a programming class, I was struggling with it hard. I probably put the most effort out of anyone else in that class, but I probably did the worst.

I've been looking around for a while for information in careers in the industry, but it's still unpopular on the internet. I remember the last bit of info I got from out of school was I think X-Play was showing some school in CA where students were interning for a game studio. I wish I could've gone to that one, but it's way too expensive and out of the way, but that's how things go. Still not sure what I should do about my education, I was thinking just getting this certificate and work extensively on making my own gam,e before I look for jobs, but seeing as how we're not really doing any work, I'm skeptical now. Thanks for the advice.

[Jiro]

Don't fool yourself into thinking he actually writes out a large portion of the dialogue like a screenplay for a movie. Game developers, especially the big name developers, will hire freelance writers to write the dialogue.

You need to decide where you want to ultimately end up, and then you need to research how exactly one gets there. You're not going to start as the person who writes the plot. You're going to be that guy writing the dialogue for some other guy's story. That's just something you need to keep in mind throughout your pursuit of this career.

This means there's still hope for me to work on a game in the future despite being utterly useless with coding and art. Glad I saw this before my university applications have been finalised.

[Depression Moon]

- Create an enjoyable and interactive experience in the form of a level or a map while remaining within the realms of the game design.
- Follow the overall vision of the progression of levels within the game.
- Place objects in the physical level (enemies, obstacles, interactive elements, NPCs, weapons, goodies).
- Maintain the pace, mood, level of difficulty, element introduction, environment definition of a level.
- Put in one or multiple level paths (not exactly a physical path but a means to start and end it.)
- Put in level or mission objectives so that the player knows what needs to be achieved in a level.

I just wanted to share that with anyone who happened to be looking and I recently received an email froma game studio. They suggested that I buy their software and practice modding on that. The game in particular was Unreal Tournament III.

[JKTrix]

Epic is pretty cool about giving people the 'nudge'. Valve and Bioware are too. A lot of the more high-profile PC games come with mod tools for you to play around with.

Dragon Age, which comes out next week, is boasting 'the best modding toolset ever'. Dragon Age: Origins trailer reveals the power of its mod toolset (http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/10/23/dragon-age-origins-trailer-reveals-the-power-of-its-mod-toolset/)

[Slothy]

Edit: Oh, just on a side note. I've met a few lead level designers and they all started out by just modding current engines (Half-Life, Quake, UT2k4, UT3, etc. etc.). So, also considering learning to mod levels (hell, even finding some people to create content for you, I am sure there are a lot of artists out there that want a medium to present their art). It's an idea at least.

If your interested in level design then this pretty much. A lot of people in the HL2 mapping and mod community managed to get hired by Valve because of the strength of their work. I'm not saying you can go out make a couple of TF2 maps and get hired mind you, but it's a good way to practice skills and multi-player and/or single player level design, and you can work up a bit of a portfolio of your work over time to show to developers if you're looking for a job.

Just remember that level design is as much an art as a science. Start studying the levels in games you like to play so you can figure out what they did, why it works and places where it doesn't that could possibly be improved.

[Depression Moon]

Just wanted to post somethiong to inform any interested artists out there. A big art studio that does art, animation, and modeling for games is Massive Black. They've worked on such games as Infamous, Killzone 2, Bioshock, and Dragon Age Origins. They are currently working on Bioshock 2, God of war III, and others.

Here is their site.

www.massiveblack.com

I If it's not too much could a moderator change the title of this thread to Careers and Education in Gaming. I don't want it to be mistook for something else and someone could potentially miss out on some crucial info.

[JKTrix]

Gamasutra - Jobs (http://www.gamasutra.com/jobs/)

also

Main - GameCareerGuide.com (http://www.gamecareerguide.com/)

[qwertysaur]

I made a text based game in Java class this semester. It was really bad but I had a lot of fun making it.

[Depression Moon]

Epic is pretty cool about giving people the 'nudge'. Valve and Bioware are too. A lot of the more high-profile PC games come with mod tools for you to play around with.

Dragon Age, which comes out next week, is boasting 'the best modding toolset ever'. Dragon Age: Origins trailer reveals the power of its mod toolset (http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/10/23/dragon-age-origins-trailer-reveals-the-power-of-its-mod-toolset/)

Does that game still feature that toolset? Is it only available for PC or is it PS3 too. I remember I said something about Unreal 3 being mod friendly but I'm not sure if that's PC only as well. The information is crucial though since I have an old computer that was made back in 05.

[Rostum]

Also, something that might interest you (which is a HUGE deal to the indie scene in the industry) - Unreal SDK has been released for free (with very very nice licensing plans that are actually affordable for the small guys!). Unity also released their engine for free, but you have to pay for iPhone support. Torque 3D have dropped their prices, and are releasing an iPhone development tool kit soon for a reasonable price.

[Slothy]

Sweet jesus, they are giving a good deal on the UDK aren't they. I haven't looked at Epic's licensing rates since before the Unreal engine 3 came out, but I remember them getting up around $100,000. Way out of the realm of possibility for indie developers. $99 + 25% royalties is a lot better for the small fry since you really only pay out if you're successful. I would be somewhat worried about a publisher taking an even more sizeable chunk out of that and not leaving you with much, but there's always that risk and it's tough to get very far without one.

So I'm wondering how the course went for you (so far if you're still in it) Depression? Did it seem to work out alright or were your misgivings justified? Hopefully you can get somewhere in the industry eventually regardless of how it went.

Anyway, I like the idea of going the indie route for breaking into the industry myself. Two friends and I are actually about ready to start work on our first title. We plan on using the Quake 3 engine, with one of my friends handling much of the programming, the other doing most of the 3D, and myself doing the music/sound design and any plotting and scripting we need. I think we also complement eachother a lot in terms of skills because our programmer can do 3D, we're all musicians, and I'm learning C on my own at the moment (Quake 3 was programmed in C), so we know enough to speak intelligently about a lot of the different areas of game development even if we haven't brought our skills together to make one before. Who knows, maybe I'll run into Depression Moon or some other people from here at GDC in a few years. :D

[Depression Moon]

Concerning my education it got even worse. At my college we were supposed to work on making a 3-D game using esperient, but it was super buggy so it was canceled. What did we do after that? We smurfed around. We usually played games are just talked. Tomorrow's my last class and I really don't have :bou::bou::bou::bou: to do. The class is supposed to be presenting their non-digital games to the class. I already did mine which was basically a real life plunder game, instead of a treasure I used a ball with a kitten on it and instead of guns we tagged.


That was a waste of time, so I would be a fool to continue at that school especially since I'll be having the same instructor. I'm still exactly unclear on what I'll exactly do, but I'm thinking about going to a school in Atlanta for game design. The thing is though it requires a lot of artistic drawing and I fail at drawing. I could go for game programming, but I'm terrible at math and failed one C++ class that I took in the summer.

[Slothy]

You mentioned before that you might be interested in the writing and level design aspects of game making. Since it's apparent that programming probably isn't for you and you can't really draw or do the visual art side of things (don't feel bad since neither can I), I'd avoid any game design program that requires you to do either. In fact, you may want to simply go for a program geared specifically towards writing or literature for the writing aspect of it. Lessons learned in writing in general could be transferred over to writing for a game, and projects that you work on during the course work could make for a good portfolio to show to potential employers.

As for level design, try your hand at it in a variety of game types. You mentioned using the LBP level creator a lot which would be good practice since making a level that's fun pretty much requires you to not only understand the core gameplay for the game, but get your head around concepts like pacing, and how to structure challenges in game. It may not seem like that would transfer to something like an FPS, but once you understand what makes a level exciting, all it takes is learning the mechanics of a given game to transfer that knowledge and experience over. I would definitely start messing around with the level editor for a game you play and perhaps get involved with online mapping communities for said game. Then you could make levels, share them, and get feedback relating to what could be improved, balance issues, etc. thereby helping you improve.

Get enough experience with these and you may even be able to work your way into assisting on some indie title. Don't think that you necessarily have to go with some specific course targeted at game design, or that you have to learn something you hate to get in. There are a number of ways into the industry for those who have the drive and the passion to learn and improve in their areas of concentration, even if it's done without some sort of game design certificate.

[Depression Moon]

The thing withgoing in writing is a fall back plan. What kind of job can i get with that degree? I also want to write books too, but it's hard getting published. I guess I could be a teacher, but I can't deal with students. I'll end up in prison

[Slothy]

I guess I could be a teacher, but I can't deal with students. I'll end up in prison

Precisely why I'm leaving tat career path to my wife. I'd kill a student too if I didn't end up fired first. :D

Yeah, it's definitely a bit tricky having a back up plan with something like an arts degree. I don't know about the States, but in Canada you could actually work for the government with any degree and make more money (there are very few government departments that actually care what your degree is in, just that you have one oddly). I won't lie, I've never seen anyone with an arts degree get a job that uses it that wasn't a teacher.

Perhaps minoring in that stuff somewhere might be a better choice? You could take something else your interested in as your main degree. Even better if it can somehow translate to making games.

There's also the self tought route too I suppose. If you can pretty much teach yourself to write and come up with a strong portfolio to get your foot in the door, or do some good work with a mod team or an indie developer then that may be all you need. Hell, I'm going to be doing the sound design for the game my friends and I are making and the only even remotely related experience I have is being a musician for the last 10 years, and being a hobbyist when it comes to music software for the last two or three. I'm pretty much going to have to teach myself as much as I an through what sources I can find and trial and error.

[Depression Moon]

Generally speaking, we look for people who are good at what they do (ie,programming or art) and have some combination of educational background and work experience, along with examples of work they've done in gaming. So, not only do we want good programmers or artists, but we want good programmers or artists who have examples of mods or plugins or game-related things they've done on their own that show us they "get" what it is we do here.



There's no magic degree, or school, or number of years of experience that we're necessarily looking for or need. The requirements for each job we're currently hiring for will give you an idea on a position-by-position basis the Jobs section of Bethesda Softworks (http://www.bethsoft.com)



Hope this information is helpful.



This is an email that I received a little while ago from Bethesda. Just thought that I should share it with you all.

[Madame Adequate]

As far as I can tell one of the best bets to get into the industry is to make good mods. If you do that then you have somewhere to demonstrate your talents, you have a 'portfolio' to show people basically. There have been quite a few modders who have been actively approached by a company to work on a game or expansion pack due to their modding work on that company's earlier stuff.

In terms of actual courses then yeah, specialization is necessary. If you don't have that then you either need to mod and hope you get noticed, or you'll have to start as a tester. Which is infinitely less fun than it sounds, but can offer chances for progression to other roles. Unfortunately everyone reckons they're a writer so they're not in much demand - something which shows in games. If you're an artist or programmer you'll have a much easier time getting hired. Modding is again good because it can let you show off some of this stuff; certainly it can give you a lot of experience with level design.