No one "becomes" a soceress.(spoilers)

[MJN SEIFER]

Often writers of stories will delberatly make the characters missinterpret things in order to make characters more realistic (I mean how would they know evertything?) It is because of these seens I have assumed that all sorceresses are born that way, despite Rinoa's lines.

Not enough? Well I made an intepretation at the Edea parade scene, Rinoa takes an Odine Bangle to supress the Edea's powers, but when she does Edea makes her put it on her self. (That's how it looks to me anyway). This is because Edea is poseessed by Ultimecia at the time, and Ultimecia knows she will eventually posses Rinoa.

I believe that Sorceressess are always Sorceressess, but their powers are dormant up until a point, Ultimecia didn't want Rinoa to find out about her powers untl the right moment. She neeeded to get everyone up to the right point (I am not sure of that yet, but I think it was Adel).

This is just a theory, it needs more research, but feel free to respond, debate as well if you lik, I'll either retort, or add it to my DH list.

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm really going to have to disagree as not only does this sorta defeat the purpose of "passing on their powers" but even the information section of the game tells you that anyone can become a sorceress because of this process.

It makes more sense to have Ultimecia transfer Edea's power to Rinoa in order to possess her cause she realizes the power wouldn't attack one of their own.

[Elly]

i just recently played that scene and Rinoa didn't put on the Odine Bangle, though Edea did telekeneticly lift her off the ground by her arm in order to restrain her, then telepathicaly sedated her during the speach, she did not force her to put on any enchanted jewelry...

[MJN SEIFER]

I'm really going to have to disagree as not only does this sorta defeat the purpose of "passing on their powers" but even the information section of the game tells you that anyone can become a sorceress because of this process.

It makes more sense to have Ultimecia transfer Edea's power to Rinoa in order to possess her cause she realizes the power wouldn't attack one of their own.

If that's the case, then I shall add this to my DH list. If it is in the information section, then it is the writers not the characters. Incidently which page is that under? I am genuingly interested.


i just recently played that scene and Rinoa didn't put on the Odine Bangle, though Edea did telekeneticly lift her off the ground by her arm in order to restrain her, then telepathicaly sedated her during the speach, she did not force her to put on any enchanted jewelry...

I may be wrong, but to me it looked like Rinoa (under control) put something on he neck while she was hanging on the celing (just before she fell). Again I could be wrong.

[Elly]

a bangle is a bracelet, not a necklace... so, i don't thaink that was it, Rinoa reaching for her throat could be due to her suddenly not being able to speak, due to Edea's restraining her...

[Wolf Kanno]

Go to Tutorial and then go down to information and I believe it should be listed under either Sorceress or Sorceress' and their Powers.

GameFAQs: Final Fantasy VIII (PS) Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ by Sir Bahamut (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/34215) This has the data as well as some of the Ultimania translated in the "additional information" section. Just scroll past the Time theory hoopla and R=U stuff to get canonical info.

Reading it though, it is true that a person has to have a strong potential for magic to be chosen for embodiment but that is the only requirement, its not a hidden power it just needs a host who has the potential to control it which makes pretty good sense, though I feel the actual in-game part is pretty vague about this as well.

[Kyros]

a bangle is a bracelet, not a necklace... so, i don't thaink that was it, Rinoa reaching for her throat could be due to her suddenly not being able to speak, due to Edea's restraining her...

a bangle could be either, and I don't remember if the game specified which one it was in this case =/

[Elly]

nope, bangles are either bracelets or anklets not necklaces... though the ornament that hangs from a necklace is sometimes refered to as a bangle, but i don't think that's the definition being used here, as that is more obscure... besides the item Rinoa is holding in Carroways Mansion is far to small to be a necklace, and looks like a bracelet, the only necklace i've ever seen Rinoa wear is the one she always wears with the ring on it, even during that scene... Bangle Definition | Definition of Bangle at Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bangle)

[MJN SEIFER]

a bangle is a bracelet, not a necklace... so, i don't thaink that was it, Rinoa reaching for her throat could be due to her suddenly not being able to speak, due to Edea's restraining her...

I didn't realize that. I had absolutly no idea what a "bangle" was (outside the music industry, of course) so I just assumed that it was for the neck because of how I intepretted the scene. I shall add this to my DH list.


Go to Tutorial and then go down to information and I believe it should be listed under either Sorceress or Sorceress' and their Powers.

GameFAQs: Final Fantasy VIII (PS) Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ by Sir Bahamut (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/34215) This has the data as well as some of the Ultimania translated in the "additional information" section. Just scroll past the Time theory hoopla and R=U stuff to get canonical info.

Reading it though, it is true that a person has to have a strong potential for magic to be chosen for embodiment but that is the only requirement, its not a hidden power it just needs a host who has the potential to control it which makes pretty good sense, though I feel the actual in-game part is pretty vague about this as well.

Thanks for the advice, I shall check out those links and that information page when I can.

[Serapy]

Rinoa was always destined to become a sorceress after what happened at the beginning (Ultimecia passing her own powers to Matron.)

[MJN SEIFER]

Rinoa was always destined to become a sorceress after what happened at the beginning (Ultimecia passing her own powers to Matron.)


Destiny is the key word in most occurances in FFVIII in my opinion - this is another thing I will write about when I can.

[Future Esthar]

I agree with mjn seifer.
A TV set is not less a TV set when it is not receiving radio waves than it is otherwise.

[MJN SEIFER]

Are you responding to the original post, or my previous post? Thank you for agreeing.

[Christmas]

I disagree with Future Esthar like I alway do. :mad2:

[NeoCracker]

I knew it, you DO hate FF VIII!

[Moon Rabbits]

This is just stupid. If this theory were true, then the entire story of FFVIII would be different - why would the developers emphasize the fact that ANYONE can be a sorceress, that a sorceress must pass on her powers before dying, if it weren't true? This isn't the characters of the game misinterpreting a concept, it is you.

[MJN SEIFER]

This is just stupid. If this theory were true, then the entire story of FFVIII would be different - why would the developers emphasize the fact that ANYONE can be a sorceress, that a sorceress must pass on her powers before dying, if it weren't true? This isn't the characters of the game misinterpreting a concept, it is you.

This theory has already been disproved and added to my DH list. Sorry Moon Rabbits

[Ryushikaze]

Due to the nature of the stable time loop, no one involved in it can't not be what they are inside it. This is not the same as them 'always being one.'
Squall is foredestined to become a SeeD and also plant the idea of SeeD into Edea's mind. This does not mean he is always a SeeD. Same with Rinoa. She must always 'become' a Sorceress, but is not always one. She has always had the potential, but this is merely being a vessel for the power of Hyne.
Passing along the power of Hyne is a canon fact, both believed in universe, and given as the explanation in official extrauniversal sources.

[MJN SEIFER]

Due to the nature of the stable time loop, no one involved in it can't not be what they are inside it. This is not the same as them 'always being one.'
Squall is foredestined to become a SeeD and also plant the idea of SeeD into Edea's mind. This does not mean he is always a SeeD. Same with Rinoa. She must always 'become' a Sorceress, but is not always one. She has always had the potential, but this is merely being a vessel for the power of Hyne.
Passing along the power of Hyne is a canon fact, both believed in universe, and given as the explanation in official extrauniversal sources.



That is very well written, Ryushikaze. I completly agree. :D

[Eden-Oden]

ok, But Do You All Remember When You Get To Name Your Necklace Griever How Did Squall Know The Gf . So Lets Make Some Connections Squall and Griever - Rinoa And Ultimecia What If Some How Squall And Rinoa Turn From Good To Evil. For Whatever Reason .
Or Does Anyone Think That Griever And Ultimecia Are Descendants Of Squall And Rinoa?
In Ultimecia's Castle Could there be a relation with Squall's Allies And The Bosses You Have To Fight? Any Theroies? Cause The Way Is See It Squall=Griever Rinoa = ultimecia
And That Dragon is Bahamut's Alter-Ego.

[NeoCracker]

ok, But Do You All Remember When You Get To Name Your Necklace Griever How Did Squall Know The Gf . So Lets Make Some Connections Squall and Griever - Rinoa And Ultimecia What If Some How Squall And Rinoa Turn From Good To Evil. For Whatever Reason .
Or Does Anyone Think That Griever And Ultimecia Are Descendants Of Squall And Rinoa?
In Ultimecia's Castle Could there be a relation with Squall's Allies And The Bosses You Have To Fight? Any Theroies? Cause The Way Is See It Squall=Griever Rinoa = ultimecia
And That Dragon is Bahamut's Alter-Ego.

I have no Idea what the hell you just said, but it sounds wrong.

[Darth Cid]

ok, But Do You All Remember When You Get To Name Your Necklace Griever How Did Squall Know The Gf . So Lets Make Some Connections Squall and Griever - Rinoa And Ultimecia What If Some How Squall And Rinoa Turn From Good To Evil. For Whatever Reason .
Or Does Anyone Think That Griever And Ultimecia Are Descendants Of Squall And Rinoa?
In Ultimecia's Castle Could there be a relation with Squall's Allies And The Bosses You Have To Fight? Any Theroies? Cause The Way Is See It Squall=Griever Rinoa = ultimecia
And That Dragon is Bahamut's Alter-Ego.

Actually, Bahamut is known as the king of dragons, and Tiamat is known as the queen of dragons.

[Ryushikaze]

ok, But Do You All Remember When You Get To Name Your Necklace Griever How Did Squall Know The Gf . So Lets Make Some Connections Squall and Griever - Rinoa And Ultimecia What If Some How Squall And Rinoa Turn From Good To Evil. For Whatever Reason .
Or Does Anyone Think That Griever And Ultimecia Are Descendants Of Squall And Rinoa?
In Ultimecia's Castle Could there be a relation with Squall's Allies And The Bosses You Have To Fight? Any Theroies? Cause The Way Is See It Squall=Griever Rinoa = ultimecia
And That Dragon is Bahamut's Alter-Ego.

Cloud and/or Ultimecia created Griever, and Ultimecia drew him forth from Cloud's own mind.


Actually, Bahamut is known as the king of dragons, and Tiamat is known as the queen of dragons.

According to FF and DnD, yes, though they rule different dragons.
In the original Mythos Bahamut existed outside of reality and was more akin to a fish. Then again, I suppose he can choose to look like whatever he wants inside reality.

[Darth Cid]

Cloud and/or Ultimecia created Griever, and Ultimecia drew him forth from Cloud's own mind.

Cloud?

[Ryushikaze]

Apologies, I wrote that while quite exhausted and discussing FF7 elsewhere. Squall and/or Ultimecia is what I meant to write.

[BG-57]

In most FF games Tiamat appears radically different from Bahamut, with multiple heads. So in this game is was a mainly case of palette swapping, although the Dark Flare is most likely a reference to Mega Flare. Theoretically B=T is possible, but the two characters are typically separate entities.

[Darth Cid]

Apologies, I wrote that while quite exhausted and discussing FF7 elsewhere. Squall and/or Ultimecia is what I meant to write.

I see, but what a brilliant theory that Cloud made Griever, can't wait to see a troll post it.


In most FF games Tiamat appears radically different from Bahamut, with multiple heads. So in this game is was a mainly case of palette swapping, although the Dark Flare is most likely a reference to Mega Flare. Theoretically B=T is possible, but the two characters are typically separate entities.

http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss241/jpendergraft/Picard.jpg

[MJN SEIFER]

I see, but what a brilliant theory that Cloud made Griever, can't wait to see a troll post it.



Theory posting isn't trolling (if this was lighthearted, forgive me, but I am sensitive about this - it goes with the "cruft" problem on Wikipedia.

Plus Griever doesn't really need that much theorising - the game comes right out and tells you what it is.

[Darth Cid]

Indeed it does, as well as it does Ultimecia.