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SuperMillionaire
11-02-2009, 04:27 AM
What if they remade FFXI as a non-online RPG?

black orb
11-02-2009, 04:33 AM
>>> That would not even make sense..

But with a very very very and I mean REAL VERY good story, they can pull it off I guess..http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/rodv/Luca-Walk-Front.gif

Del Murder
11-02-2009, 04:37 AM
It wouldn't be the same. A lot of stuff requires you to have multiple people playing together. I don't know how a single player game would be able to handle that. Obviously you would need to be able to control multiple characters at once which would get complicated.

Mirage
11-02-2009, 05:14 AM
Doesn't sound like a problem at all. Obviously you'd just tweak some parts so that they could easily be done with a single person controlling several characters one after another. For combat, most of it can be solved with a gambit-like system as in FF12.



But with a very very very and I mean REAL VERY good story, they can pull it off I guess..http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/rodv/Luca-Walk-Front.gif
Yes, FF11 offline would keep it's story, I dunno why you brought that up.

SuperMillionaire
11-02-2009, 05:17 AM
Fixed characters and backstories, modified gameplay... sounds good. Hope SE takes it into consideration!

Mirage
11-02-2009, 05:24 AM
Won't ever happen.

Ouch!
11-02-2009, 05:33 AM
I'd rather they didn't.

Edit: It's a shame that so many people assume that because FFXI is online it must have a bad story. FFXI's story is easily one of the best in the series.

Mirage
11-02-2009, 06:14 AM
Too bad the pacing isn't the best :/

SuperMillionaire
11-02-2009, 06:37 AM
Perhaps the story should be faster-paced?

Ouch!
11-02-2009, 06:52 AM
The plot's pacing is fine. The rest of the game is just kind of slow.

Darkwolf090
11-02-2009, 07:50 AM
A game with FFXI gameplay is out and it is offline! FFXII.... oh wait you dont have to hit Control 1 to provoke in that one... DAMN

SuperMillionaire
11-02-2009, 03:24 PM
Perhaps faster-paced gameplay then?

Mirage
11-02-2009, 06:49 PM
it takes a lot of leveling up between each story related fight you do, making people (me for example) almost forget what happened earlier by the time they can get the next cutscene

isn't this poor pacing?

Ouch!
11-02-2009, 08:42 PM
it takes a lot of leveling up between each story related fight you do, making people (me for example) almost forget what happened earlier by the time they can get the next cutscene

isn't this poor pacing?
Depends how you're approaching the missions. If you already have a job of a sufficient level ~65 to complete Rise of the Zilart, 75 for Chains of Promathia, Treasures of Aht Urhgan, and Wings of the Goddess, burning through the missions is solely dependent on whether or not you can get people together. Nation missions might be another deal since you typically do those as you're leveling. You could also do CoP as you go, but I really don't see very many people attempting that.

If one prepares oneself properly, one can burn through these missions in a few days if one really wants to hardcore it. I know people who have completed nation missions in only a few days. There's nothing inherent in any of the missions that makes you wait longer than one day (occasional JP midnight waits) to continue.

Levian
11-02-2009, 10:59 PM
It'd be so different that they might as well just slap a different roman number behind it.

Rostum
11-02-2009, 11:18 PM
I've oftened entertained the thought of being able to experience the story and the many memorable characters of Final Fantasy XI in an offline RPG. It would be nice, if anything, to let non-MMORPG players experience what is probably the most comprehensive and best set of storylines that the series has ever experienced.

So yes, I would be all for an offline adaption that is based around the world of Vana'diel and its incredible set of story archs and lore; even downloadable episodic side stories (see mini-expansions) would be a nice addition to keep building upon the world. However, I'd like to see none of the gameplay carry across.

Del Murder
11-03-2009, 12:55 AM
It'd be so different that they might as well just slap a different roman number behind it.
Yeah that's what I was getting at.

If one prepares oneself properly, one can burn through these missions in a few days if one really wants to hardcore it. I know people who have completed nation missions in only a few days.
Bastok 1-10 in one week. :D

WotG is annoying in particular due to the slowness with which they are releasing the missions. Months go by and I forget what was going on in the story. Now it looks like I'll have to wait even longer because they are focusing on nation quests in this update. I want to hurry up and finish these so I can quit this stupid game!

Mirage
11-03-2009, 02:39 AM
it takes a lot of leveling up between each story related fight you do, making people (me for example) almost forget what happened earlier by the time they can get the next cutscene

isn't this poor pacing?
Depends how you're approaching the missions. If you already have a job of a sufficient level ~65 to complete Rise of the Zilart, 75 for Chains of Promathia, Treasures of Aht Urhgan, and Wings of the Goddess, burning through the missions is solely dependent on whether or not you can get people together. Nation missions might be another deal since you typically do those as you're leveling. You could also do CoP as you go, but I really don't see very many people attempting that.

If one prepares oneself properly, one can burn through these missions in a few days if one really wants to hardcore it. I know people who have completed nation missions in only a few days. There's nothing inherent in any of the missions that makes you wait longer than one day (occasional JP midnight waits) to continue.

It's easy if you already have a high leveled job, but do you really suggest that a player shouldn't start doing missions until they're level 60+?

And yes, i was mainly talking about the nation missions. However, CoP with its level restricted areas clearly implies that they are meant to let low levels participate along with high leveled characters, but here too it is a 10 level cap increase between each chapter, and you do one chapter a lot faster than you gain 10 levels, at least on your first job

I would much prefer that you could do missions *as* you leveled up from level one, and not have to grind a lot between each time you did something.

What would you say if you had to grind for 20 hours between exiting midgar and entering the mythril caves?

Jessweeee♪
11-03-2009, 02:46 AM
FFXI-2?

Ouch!
11-03-2009, 04:35 AM
It's easy if you already have a high leveled job, but do you really suggest that a player shouldn't start doing missions until they're level 60+?

And yes, i was mainly talking about the nation missions. However, CoP with its level restricted areas clearly implies that they are meant to let low levels participate along with high leveled characters, but here too it is a 10 level cap increase between each chapter, and you do one chapter a lot faster than you gain 10 levels, at least on your first job

I would much prefer that you could do missions *as* you leveled up from level one, and not have to grind a lot between each time you did something.

What would you say if you had to grind for 20 hours between exiting midgar and entering the mythril caves?
I was willing to entertain your notions until the last statement, to be honest. You just have unrealistic expectations of what's possible in a MMORPG if you're going to even compare it to offline ones.

I can understand wanting nation missions to be manageable while leveling up (and I think for the most part they do a pretty good job). The other missions, however, are part of expansions. It's never been a problem for a majority of the player base, especially in the case of Treasures of Aht Urhgan and Wings of the Goddess.

And while we're at it, except for the nation missions, I do think people shouldn't do them until around level 60. Aside from the nation ones, there's not a whole lot of reason to do very many missions at that level unless you're really dying for the plot.

I guess my main point is that the issues of pacing are not plot dependent: they're dependent on the game's leveling system.

SuperMillionaire
11-03-2009, 04:48 AM
I've oftened entertained the thought of being able to experience the story and the many memorable characters of Final Fantasy XI in an offline RPG. It would be nice, if anything, to let non-MMORPG players experience what is probably the most comprehensive and best set of storylines that the series has ever experienced.

So yes, I would be all for an offline adaption that is based around the world of Vana'diel and its incredible set of story archs and lore; even downloadable episodic side stories (see mini-expansions) would be a nice addition to keep building upon the world. However, I'd like to see none of the gameplay carry across.

Yes, and player characters' names and backstories should be fixed, like its predecessors.

Mirage
11-03-2009, 06:43 AM
The last sentence was obviously an exaggeration :/.

But regardless, I am definitely of the opinion that the game's main plot should be doable without a lot of grinding, and this is especially true if you want casual players to play the game. I'm not saying I want no grind at all, I'm also not saying that I want it to be really fast to get to endgame.

I'm gonna use the original FFXI as an example now. The level cap was 50, and if you wanted to kill the "last boss" in that game, you pretty much had to be level 50 (or nearly level 50) to be able to participate, else you would be too weak and a burden for the rest of the party. You also had to be about that level to participate in the endgame content such as the HNMs at that time. Would it really be too much to ask for if the main boss was killable at level 30-40, and then you could get the last levels when you wanted to participate in endgame?

If you're gonna have a lot of levels that are slow to get, you should have cool things for people to do during all these levels, and not just one or two cool things to do every 10 levels. An easily accessible "main story" would let casuals have more fun (and probably make more casuals buy the game and subscribe for a few months), and if the endgame content still requires you to be really strong, the people who like to grind to get there would still be playing for a long time. I would say most people who play FFXI for the endgame content would do so even if they got done with the main story at a lower level than they have eto be now.

Rostum
11-03-2009, 09:31 AM
I don't know what you guys are on about - we're discussing an adaptation of the MMORPG's story archs into an offline RPG. Not how to make the MMORPG more casual-player friendly.

SuperMillionaire
11-04-2009, 04:05 PM
Yes, we want to adopt the story for offline gaming. And perhaps SE should tweak the battle system a bit.

Jecht Shot
01-20-2010, 05:34 PM
It would be possible, and neat, but they'd have to do the following things:

-greatly reduce max enemy HP all around, especially for NM/HNM. Possibly other enemy nerfs as well

-introduce a FFXII gambit-type system, allowing macros for 5 other party members. I don't think 18 would be realistic (which is one of the reasons why they'd have to drop NM HP drastically). Alternatively, so it won't be overwhelming, allow only 3 party members like FFXII, and nerf monsters even more

-as a possible addendum to that, maybe introduce a mercenary guild to replace the LFP system. Kinda like Tactics, you go to the guild and hire specific jobs. Levels, AI, and gear may even vary. You can check them in advance and get what you pay for.

-reduce the cap on all crafts, making it possible to get 100 in every craft

-Eliminate many of the intended gil sinks, such as chocobo rental or NPC storage

-of course eliminate the AH, unless they wanted to randomly generate stuff on it for you to buy

-To coincide with that, all NPC prices would have to drop. More items/gear would need to be available through NPC, and quests would need to offer much more gil rewards. Possible large increase on the gil that beastmen drop as well

-drop rates would need to increase significantly, since there is less supply. Also it would expedite some missions and quests, allowing you to full appreciate the story more

-less xp required for level up. Maybe even increase the level cap to 99, making some HNM easier to defeat since you won't have an alliance+

-Either introduce Mog tents, or provide more places in the field that restore HP/MP (ie save points). Resting like you do in the online version would really suck. Reduced NPC prices on meds would help to this end too

Overall, I think it would be cool, because FFXI has a pretty good story. Its just hard to get a grasp on it at times and comprehend it, because you'll often find a large lapse between cut scenes due to the grinding nature of the game.

I don't think you'd have to change the story much at all, because it would be like FFI with no pre-fabricated character as the main hero.

SuperMillionaire
01-22-2010, 08:50 PM
Yes, the four Warriors of Light had no backstories...

Del Murder
01-23-2010, 03:30 AM
I'll grant that it's possible, but that's a lot of work!

Jiro
01-23-2010, 09:58 AM
Or we could just play it online like it was designed?

Roogle
01-23-2010, 10:36 PM
Certainly, they could use the background materials and character sketches included with the world of Vana'diel to create a single-player experience, but I think that this would be very unlikely to happen using the graphics or engine of the actual game.

The storyline missions could be played through the eyes of the NPCs that give you the mission in a lot of cases. The earliest missions rarely had an NPC fight in the battle with you, even though it would have made more sense that way. It would be nice to see the NPCs have to do their own work rather than having some random adventurer that they hardly know, me, do it for them.


Or we could just play it online like it was designed?

This is what Square Enix would likely say even if there was a large request for this type of game or story.

SuperMillionaire
01-24-2010, 01:55 AM
Unless of course the demand gets so great, then they'll comply...

Rostum
01-24-2010, 07:34 AM
Unless of course the demand gets so great, then they'll comply...

Completely doubtful.

Ouch!
01-24-2010, 05:37 PM
Given that they're not making a FFVII remake despite the obnoxiously ridiculously enormous demand for it, I sincerely doubt that any amount of demand for an offline adaptation of FFXI would ever happen.

Yeargdribble
01-28-2010, 04:19 AM
I'm with Omecle in that I've spent some time thinking about this. I'd love it so much. An official version will likely never happen which is too bad considering the depth of the story.

What we can expect is reasonable private servers at some point. Beyond that, let's not forget that technology might do things we're not expecting as far as private servers go. Remember when you first discovered emulation and how before that you probably couldn't have even imagined it?

Beyond just private servers, there may come a time where we can have it emulated very well locally with countless options.

Roogle
01-28-2010, 07:34 AM
That is a good point, Yeargdribble. Private servers would allow a group of friends to enjoy the game without having to worry about the various restrictions placed upon the community.

I imagine that there are parameters in the game that can be modified to exceed Level 75 and that one could easily edit HP and MP to become more powerful characters capable of taking out monsters by themselves without issues. This would allow a person to complete difficult missions by themselves or only a friend or two to assist.

Rostum
01-28-2010, 10:49 AM
Hmm, that'd be really interesting to eventually introduce private servers that buff things up (like exp gain, HP, MP, etc. etc.) for the purpose of being able to get through with just a few of your friends. In fact, I wonder if the server is set up properly, that you'd get a great influx of players based on the fact that things are easier.

Yeargdribble
01-28-2010, 03:53 PM
When I mentioned it I'd forgotten something that your post reminded me of, Roogle. The animations and level caps for spells are already in the game up to 100. I remember when I played a lot I'd browse through them and marvel at the amazing animations of really high levels spells.

Although there is no content for such, allowing the players to get to 100 on a private server would also allow them to do some of the hardest current endgame content. I'm sure being 25 levels higher would make even AV and PW a little easier.


I wonder if Omecle might be right about the influx of players under proper conditions. I'm sure at some point there would be people curious to see what the game is all about, but unwilling to pay and waste their lives away getting anywhere. Even Ultima Online has a bevy of servers all with different rule sets and system adjustments. No doubt there would be a private server set up just those wanting to get the high points of the game's story and having XP curves and such tweaked toward that.

FFXI has a relatively small, but some deeply dedicated community. I'm sure there will be more than a handful of community members who will care enough in the future to carefully tweak private server to the needs of different people to make the game entirely approachable.

Ouch!
01-28-2010, 04:56 PM
Something tells me that Square Enix isn't the type of company to allow such a use of their product. Not for any particularly good reason, mind, but mostly because their attitude towards the player base isn't exactly what one typically expects from a developer of a MMORPG.

Yeargdribble
01-28-2010, 07:51 PM
Pfft! Who said anything about doing it with their consent? WoW has private servers already even though they aren't allowed. There is a WIP private server for FFXI now, though it has quite drastic limitations at this point.

SE is a lawsuit happy company that might try to keep them down, but there must be a legal loophole that allows them considering the WoW servers aren't all shut down. In five years FFXI may be inconsequential enough that it's easy to get private servers running in the corners of the internet.

Roogle
01-29-2010, 09:01 PM
When I mentioned it I'd forgotten something that your post reminded me of, Roogle. The animations and level caps for spells are already in the game up to 100. I remember when I played a lot I'd browse through them and marvel at the amazing animations of really high levels spells.

Although there is no content for such, allowing the players to get to 100 on a private server would also allow them to do some of the hardest current endgame content. I'm sure being 25 levels higher would make even AV and PW a little easier.

Yes, I remember seeing videos of unused spells like Death and Comet being cast by players in special environments as a demonstration of what can be done in the game, theoretically. If a private server allowed the use of better spells like Utsusemi: San and Death, it would be a lot easier to travel the world with a couple of friends and complete missions and quests on your own time rather than hope that circumstance brings everyone together.