Dying star?

[Serapy]

When you're outside of Ultimecia's throne room, you would notice a red star (sun), which appears to be pretty dark:

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9982/redsun.jpg

There's no dark cloud blocking the view of the Star ... and yet it's still dark.
Look, the other areas of the sky appear to be clouded, but not the area where the Star displays.
This proves that Square was trying to hint something.

When the camera brings you into the lower part of the room (approaching Ultimecia's chair), the general brightness goes up, and hence the star looks a bit brighter - Where did this extra brightness come from? The flames, gold religious stuff and the Lifestream on the ground.

This red star looks like it's dying. So that must be millions of years into the future, not in hundreds of years. In the present days (Squall and Co.), the star looked pretty heathly. Apparently, this star doesn't seem to be heathly.

[Kyros]

You really look at random things oddly.

[Skyblade]

Since you have no way of determining what star that is, you really can't use it as a chronometer. We don't know what star it is, or if we ever saw it in the pre-Time Compressed world, which means we don't know whether it is much dimmer than it was in Squall's time. We also don't know that it's even a star. It could be an illusion Ulti used to make her throne room more appealing, or it could be Lavos coming to destroy the world. Even if it is a star that we saw before and that has become much dimmer in Ulti's time, it doesn't mean it has to be millions of years in the future, it could just be that her magic, which is encompassing all of space time, is draining everything, not just our world. The devs wanted to present a theme of darkness and despair, where everything is fading away, and the star was just a part of that. They never figured anyone would be so truly stupid as to freeze-frame one second of the game and use it to decide that everything else the game tells us is wrong. For goodness' sake, cut this nonsense out.

[Flying Mullet]

The star is darker because there is a light haze or fog over it. It's dense enough to scatter the light from the sun, but thin enough that it's not visible to the naked eye. As you move up the tower you move out of the mist, thus the sun becomes brighter, just like the sun becomes brighter if you're ever taken off in an airplane and it becomes brighter as you gain altitude.

Simple as that. No fancy meanings or hidden symbols. Just basic physics at work. Sorry your theory turned out to be a realistic representation of mundane life.

[Serapy]

Ultimecia castle takes place on Earth (the same world as VIII) somewhere in the future. Unless Ultimecia resides on another Earth where beings can breate oxygen but I doubt it.

Whenever we see Rinoa in the present, she looks up to the star. A bright star (why else her body turned brighter?) Did we see any other nearby star in the game? Nope, only this one. We can assume that specific star to be our dear Sun. Therefore, we can safely assume that there's only one star in Ultimecia's present. That's if she resides on the same planet as where Squall and Co physically exist back then. If it's only one star, it gotta be our Sun.

Wait a second!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember Rinoa using her finger sign at some star in the sky to deceive Squall? She shown it to Squall from the beginning and also the ending. Is this the star in the Ultimecia picture above? Hmmm.

[Kyros]

Theres a lot of stars in the sky. idk what youre trying to prove but its really not meaning much of anything =/

[Skyblade]

Ultimecia castle takes place on Earth (the same world as VIII) somewhere in the future. Unless Ultimecia resides on another Earth where beings can breate oxygen but I doubt it.

Whenever we see Rinoa in the present, she looks up to the star. A bright star (why else her body turned brighter?) Did we see any other nearby star in the game? Nope, only this one. We can assume that specific star to be our dear Sun. Therefore, we can safely assume that there's only one star in Ultimecia's present. That's if she resides on the same planet as where Squall and Co physically exist back then. If it's only one star, it gotta be our Sun.

Wait a second!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember Rinoa using her finger sign at some star in the sky to deceive Squall? She shown it to Squall from the beginning and also the ending. Is this the star in the Ultimecia picture above? Hmmm.

W. T. F.

We see plenty of stars in the game. Remember the space scenes? Hell, remember the scenes in the "secret place" in the training zone? Or any other scene where it is actually nighttime? There are TONS of stars out there.

Also, we never get to see what Rinoa is staring at when the game starts, but she is certainly not pointing to a star when she holds her finger up, since, y'know, when any sane person points to something above them they actually fully extend their arm.

[Serapy]

Yes, there are stars in the space. But I'm talking about ones that are nearby, like the one in the picture above.

[leader of mortals]

A red star is very ominous. Darkness is very ominous. The star being red as well as the darkness are there for atmosphere only. There is no logical proof that Rinoa was pointing to anything at all. Why would she point at the sun anyway, and how could pointing at the sun decieve Squall?

next theory, if anyone would like to follow me I am now looking at the thread entitled "tunnel"

[Serapy]

I don't think it's possible for Ultimecia to make everything (outside of her castle) to meet her standards. Go and watch her Castle FMV, do you see the moon? Does it look the same as the one in Squall's days? Except this time, it looks MUCH bigger and lively. It seems that the moon is very special in VIII... considering the fact that it has Griever on it.

[leader of mortals]

It isn't that Ultimecia changed the tone for herself, the developers set a tone, unimportant to the story past emotions that the player will experience.

[Serapy]

The developers have put something in her castle for a reason. They make Ultimecia's castle look that way (the design, the walls, the paintings, etc) because all of them are supposed to represent Ultimecia's personality. But the developers making outside stuff (the star) to achieve the same goal doesn't seem right.

How can a dying star represent her personality? Unless there's something going on. Like it's dying to show that Ultimecia will die later. Destiny.

If a star is dying, it's supposed to look more red-ish and darker. Maybe Lunar Cry boosted the process of this star dying?

A dying star means Ultimecia and her castle were taken place in millions of years later. I don't see any dying star in Squall's present timeline.

[leader of mortals]

No, you don't seem to understand what I am talking about. Why would the dying star not be used for atmosphere? Atmosphere is something that helps set a tone, and unless you are an idiot, you can see that a dark, evil looking scene will compliment a dark, evil being.

[Skyblade]

...I still say it's Lavos. The only thing ever described specifically as "red star" in a Square game, to my knowledge.

Beware, Ulti! The destroyer comes!

[Barraza]

No, this was confirmed by Square Enix, actually.

That's just the sun, but Ultimecia spends hours on her hair and wardrobe, and she has spent an immense amount of time on making her castle ominous (including piping in organ music 24/7). So what you're seeing is just the usual sun, except she has poured gillions into making it look really, really scary.

So you see, we're all right.

[Skyblade]

Seriously, why didn't anyone notice this before? The red star is right outside Azala's throne room, just like it's right outside Ulti's throne room, and both of the stars are seen right before the last boss fight with that character! Rinoa isn't Ultimecia, Azala is Ultimecia! And Ulti's real plan to collapse time was to summon Lavos (who we all know had some time manipulating abilities)!

[leader of mortals]

Well, I'm going to edit this post to be slightly more civilized...

If you write long enough about something, you could always seem to disprove logic. We did this in my English class, where someone disproved that 1+1=2. Now let me try this in an opposite fashion to prove something, instead of disprove it... in this case, something as abstract as Azala=Ultimecia...

First off, both of these characters were created by the same company, showing that there is possibility of some interconnected thoughts with Azala and Ultimecia.
Next, both characters are evil in the main character's point of view.
Next, both characters have control over time.
Now, Imagine this scenario. Azala escapes from her lair as it is destroyed and finds the gate, and uses it to travel forward in time, then uses her knowledge to gain magical powers. This would still be within the realm of Chrono Trigger.
Then, Azala, with her newly found powers shape-shifts into Ultimecia, and after researching for a long, long time, finds a way to change dimensions.

You see? I could imagine a possible scenario for anything, but it does not make it true.

[Skyblade]

Aw, it sounds ridiculous when you put it like that. I was so hoping for some sort of secret unlockable boss fight with Lavos at the end of FFVIII, but now I know I was just looking too far into things and seeing things that weren't there. :(

[Shlup]

Alright, everyone in this thread, right now: TURN OFF THE COMPUTER AND THE CONSOLE AND GO OUTSIDE. DO IT NOW.

[Flying Mullet]

Alright, everyone in this thread, right now: TURN OFF THE COMPUTER AND THE CONSOLE AND GO OUTSIDE. DO IT NOW.
Quiet down, Big Oops!

[Christmas]

The star require medical attention apparently :bigsmile:

[Flying Mullet]

Or maybe it was dipped in red food coloring?

[I Don't Need A Name]

Seriously, its called design.
Big scary final dungeon showing dispair and darkness, hence the sun isnt very bright.
Solved.

[Christmas]

Or that star is having period problems? :bigsmile:

[Flying Mullet]

Maybe it's exploding Jello?

Or maybe the special effects department was running out of time and money so they wrapped a light bulb in red plastic wrap.

[McLovin']

The star is the nipple of the sky in that picture. Ulti's.

[Moon Rabbits]

Or that star is having period problems? :bigsmile:

ilu

[Depression Moon]

Great Thread. :)

[rubah]

THat's what the sun looked like the other day, only with less pollution.

[Serapy]

Seriously, its called design.
Big scary final dungeon showing dispair and darkness, hence the sun isnt very bright.
Solved.

You can only see the Star for like two seconds. I doubt many players have seen or paid attention to it. Therefore, there's no good reason for the developers just to make the star look that dark so that players can feel the colour of Ultimecia.

Even everything looked the same when Ultimecia travels back into the past. Why wasn't the atmosphere adapted to Ultimecia's favor when she's here? Yet the atmosphere's changed in Ultimecia's time. I also doubt it that Ultimecia has such a power to change the way how the star looks ...

I still believe that Ultimecia's time is millions of years later.

Skyblade, that's a good find. I'm sure that action made the developers put it in VIII. They put it in VIII for a reason ...

[Flying Mullet]

Seriously, its called design.
Big scary final dungeon showing dispair and darkness, hence the sun isnt very bright.
Solved.

You can only see the Star for like two seconds. I doubt many players have seen or paid attention to it. Therefore, there's no good reason for the developers just to make the star look that dark so that players can feel the colour of Ultimecia.
It's absolutely a good reason. Remember, in PSOne Final Fantasies, most backgrounds are drawn/painted by artists and then the images are imported into the game to use as backgrounds. The artist was given the task to create a mood for the background and they did that.

It's just a simple prop, no special meaning or inference. I know you really want to find more meaning and secrets, but there are none here. Sorry.

[Serapy]

Everything inside Ultimecia's castle obviously represented the darkness version of Ultimecia. I mean, Ultimecia lacks her backstory in VIII, so why not add something new to make her place valuable? Of course, if her castle looked exactly the same as some regular building from the present era (Squall and Co.), then that would be even worse!

But the star doesn't exist inside Ultimecia's castle as it actually exists outside. There's proof: the Moon outside of her castle looks exactly the same as the Moon from the present era.

[Flying Mullet]

I think you're trying to hard to create theories where there is little credible evidence. Why is it so hard to believe that the sun is red for artistic reasons and has no tie-in to the game's plot?

[Serapy]

Well, if this was millions of years into the future, then it could be plot related and further proves that R cannot be U ;););) I doubt one human being can survive millions of years, let alone with the aid of the effects from Sorceress Memorial.

Matron and Dr. Odine doesn't specifically tell the player the exact date of what Ultimecia's time may be. Now, why is that? Does it possibly mean that they do not know for sure?

[Christmas]

This thread is about R=U? I thought it's about some star having period problem or something?

[MJN SEIFER]

This thread is about R=U? I thought it's about some star having period problem or something?

It's an FFVIII thread - "R=U" is (unfortunatly) going to be mentioned at least once.

[Serapy]

This thread is about R=U? I thought it's about some star having period problem or something?

No, this isn't about R=U.

Can Moons die? Do they last longer than Stars?

[Flying Mullet]

This thread is about R=U? I thought it's about some star having period problem or something?

No, this isn't about R=U.
Then I guess it's about period star.

[Serapy]

Does anybody know that a moon can last longer than a red star?
If a moon can last longer than a red star, then that will explain why the moon at the ending (at Ultimecia's castle) looks still the same.

[Ryushikaze]

I have two words for this theory- Atmospheric discoloration.

The sun AND the moon can appear red TODAY based on this affect. There's nothing phenomenologically special about this effect.

[Serapy]

There's never been a time that any spot of red was seen on the Moon at Ultimecia's era. I tried looking for red spots and they aren't there...

[Ryushikaze]

Which changes anything about Atmospheric discoloration adequately explaining the redness of both moon or sun... how?

[Serapy]

You need to look at it harder, my friend.

[Ryushikaze]

You need to look at it harder, my friend.

Look harder at what? I see Clouds, which are EXCELLENT at causing the sun to appear red at sunrise and at sunset, and the moon as well at certain times of year.

[Serapy]

You need to look at it harder, my friend.

Look harder at what? I see Clouds, which are EXCELLENT at causing the sun to appear red at sunrise and at sunset, and the moon as well at certain times of year.

Ultimecia's castle is definitely not on Earth. Somewhere in the upper sky...

Could there be HELL on the ground (Earth) ? Could that be the reflection of the Star turning red?

[Ryushikaze]

Ultimecia's castle is definitely not on Earth. Somewhere in the upper sky...

Could there be HELL on the ground (Earth) ? Could that be the reflection of the Star turning red?

Fortunately, there's absolutely NOTHING in Atmospheric discoloration that requires the earth or a reflection. Just the atmosphere. Which the castle is still in.

[Christmas]

A dying star is a star that no longer has enough hydrogen nuclei (free protons) to sustain the thermonuclear fusion reactions that permit its core to combine four hydrogen nuclei to form one helium nucleus.

Astrophysicists have developed excellent understanding of the death of stars, although new details do continue to emerge. Understanding the death of a star is easier if you keep in mind that most of the star's mass is in its extremely dense core; its outer regions make up most of the star's volume but contain relatively little matter compared to the core. The "life" of a star is in its core.

A dying star goes through several predictable stages, depending on its mass. Except for the very smallest stars, the death of a star begins with a dramatic collapse of its core and an expansion of its outer regions to form either a giant or supergiant. When this happens to our Sun, its outer photosphere (the only part that gives off light) is likely to extend to somewhere near the Earth's orbital path.

The core of a giant or supergiant dying star is hot enough that helium nuclei can be fused to form the nuclei of heavier elements. At some point, the dying star can no longer continue any sort of fusion process and the core erupts explosively. For a medium-small star like our Sun, this eruption is relatively gentle; all of the outer shell will be blown away, but the core will remain relatively intact. Scientists call an intact core like this a white dwarf; a white dwarf eventually cools to become a black dwarf.

In dying stars somewhat larger than our Sun, the core collapses even further to form a very small but very massive remnant called a neutron star; the formation of a neutron star explosively releases a huge amount of energy called a supernova. The very largest supergiants leave remnant cores called black holes which are so dense that not even light can escape from their gravitational field.

[Flying Mullet]

Which means that if the sun was dying it would have most likely engulfed the planet that FFVIII is set on.

[Christmas]

That might or not apply to dying star on period. :bigsmile:

[Flying Mullet]

Yes, yes, the period does make it more complex.

[Dignified Pauper]

Seriously, why didn't anyone notice this before? The red star is right outside Azala's throne room, just like it's right outside Ulti's throne room, and both of the stars are seen right before the last boss fight with that character! Rinoa isn't Ultimecia, Azala is Ultimecia! And Ulti's real plan to collapse time was to summon Lavos (who we all know had some time manipulating abilities)!

This was the best goddamn post I have ever read.

[Serapy]

Ultimecia's castle is definitely not on Earth. Somewhere in the upper sky...

Could there be HELL on the ground (Earth) ? Could that be the reflection of the Star turning red?

Fortunately, there's absolutely NOTHING in Atmospheric discoloration that requires the earth or a reflection. Just the atmosphere. Which the castle is still in.

When the camera rolls the scene; a scene that's outside of the Ultimecia castle's range, the star started turning red. There's evidence to support this assumption, the Moon is outside of the Ultimecia castle's range and yet it looks the same as the Moon from the present era.

If whatever you're saying is true, the Moon would of have been adapted to Ultimecia's ominous atmosphere.

[Skyblade]

Seriously, its called design.
Big scary final dungeon showing dispair and darkness, hence the sun isnt very bright.
Solved.

You can only see the Star for like two seconds. I doubt many players have seen or paid attention to it. Therefore, there's no good reason for the developers just to make the star look that dark so that players can feel the colour of Ultimecia.

Wait wait wait...

You admit that it is only there for two seconds, and that it is largely unseen or ignored by most players.

And then you use that to argue in favor of it being a major plot point? Get your logic circuits rechecked, buddy, because right now you're stuck on an "i++ UNTIL i<1" loop.

In general, things that are only in the game for a second or two are, y'know, there for show. To be there for mood, to fill space, whatever. Big plot points generally have a much larger amount of screen time (and usually some dialogue), so that, y'know, players can notice the plot points and absorb them. Since the whole point of the story is that people should be able to UNDERSTAND IT when they play through. Just FYI.

[Ryushikaze]

When the camera rolls the scene; a scene that's outside of the Ultimecia castle's range, the star started turning red. There's evidence to support this assumption, the Moon is outside of the Ultimecia castle's range and yet it looks the same as the Moon from the present era.

If whatever you're saying is true, the Moon would of have been adapted to Ultimecia's ominous atmosphere.

It's not the atmosphere of the castle, it's the atmosphere of the earth that does it, child. Cloud cover or airborn dust acts like a color filter. Simple as that.

[Serapy]

When the camera rolls the scene; a scene that's outside of the Ultimecia castle's range, the star started turning red. There's evidence to support this assumption, the Moon is outside of the Ultimecia castle's range and yet it looks the same as the Moon from the present era.

If whatever you're saying is true, the Moon would of have been adapted to Ultimecia's ominous atmosphere.

It's not the atmosphere of the castle, it's the atmosphere of the earth that does it, child. Cloud cover or airborn dust acts like a color filter. Simple as that.

Ultimecia's atmosphere affects everything on Earth? Are you implying that she was the only being ever lived in her time period?


Wait wait wait...

You admit that it is only there for two seconds, and that it is largely unseen or ignored by most players.

And then you use that to argue in favor of it being a major plot point? Get your logic circuits rechecked, buddy, because right now you're stuck on an "i++ UNTIL i<1" loop.

I'm sure the writers have considered how to deal with things like "What if players take something deeper?"

They have just done that. They have added a lot of things to the game that are non-dialogueous. Things that are non-dialogueous have the potential of being taken seriously, easily.

[Flying Mullet]

I'm sure the writers have considered how to deal with things like "What if players take something deeper?"
Just because "you're sure" doesn't mean they have.

[Serapy]

I'm sure the writers have considered how to deal with things like "What if players take something deeper?"
Just because "you're sure" doesn't mean they have.

Them putting things in VIII and making them appear every once in a while have nothing to do with anything?

[Flying Mullet]

No, it's called coincidence (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coincidence).

[Serapy]

Her finger sign at the beginning and the ending, for example. That was not a coincidence.

[Flying Mullet]

No, not everything is coincidence, but just because something is similar does not mean it was intended to be similar, hence coincidence.

[Ryushikaze]

Ultimecia's atmosphere affects everything on Earth? Are you implying that she was the only being ever lived in her time period?

ARE YOU EVEN READING WHAT I SAY?
I said it's NOT the Atmosphere of her castle, but Earth's ACTUAL atmosphere that affects how we see the sun and moon.


I'm sure the writers have considered how to deal with things like "What if players take something deeper?"

They have just done that. They have added a lot of things to the game that are non-dialogueous. Things that are non-dialogueous have the potential of being taken seriously, easily.

But that doesn't mean every scrap of visuals are meaningful.
You have to support, with evidence, that they ARE meaningful.

[Serapy]

No, not everything is coincidence, but just because something is similar does not mean it was intended to be similar, hence coincidence.

Rinoa waving her finger at the Star in the beginning and the ending definitely wasn't a coincidence. At the ending, she waves her finger at the star to symbolise the moment they've met from the beginning.



Ultimecia's atmosphere affects everything on Earth? Are you implying that she was the only being ever lived in her time period?

ARE YOU EVEN READING WHAT I SAY?
I said it's NOT the Atmosphere of her castle, but Earth's ACTUAL atmosphere that affects how we see the sun and moon.

The moon looks about the same as the one in the present era. Yet, the star looks red. That star being red takes place outside of her castle.




I'm sure the writers have considered how to deal with things like "What if players take something deeper?"

They have just done that. They have added a lot of things to the game that are non-dialogueous. Things that are non-dialogueous have the potential of being taken seriously, easily.

But that doesn't mean every scrap of visuals are meaningful.
You have to support, with evidence, that they ARE meaningful.

Visuals are always meaningful if they keep showing up in certain areas of the game, apparently.

[Ryushikaze]

Rinoa waving her finger at the Star in the beginning and the ending definitely wasn't a coincidence. At the ending, she waves her finger at the star to symbolise the moment they've met from the beginning.

The link there is Rinoa's habit. Not the star. Nor is it a 'symbol', it's a reference.


The moon looks about the same as the one in the present era. Yet, the star looks red. That star being red takes place outside of her castle.

And again, this is absolutely no problem to an 'atmospheric discoloration' explanation.


Visuals are always meaningful if they keep showing up in certain areas of the game, apparently.

This visual does not 'keep showing up' so, by even by that logic, it's meaningless.
Not that your argument is evidence, of course.

[qwertysaur]

A dying star would be many times larger than when it was in the bulk of its life. A comparison is our own star (the sun) will expand past where Earth is when it goes into the red giant phase.

[Serapy]

Rinoa waving her finger at the Star in the beginning and the ending definitely wasn't a coincidence. At the ending, she waves her finger at the star to symbolise the moment they've met from the beginning.

The link there is Rinoa's habit. Not the star. Nor is it a 'symbol', it's a reference.

You're admitting that this 'reference' is not meaningless? Finally!




The moon looks about the same as the one in the present era. Yet, the star looks red. That star being red takes place outside of her castle.

And again, this is absolutely no problem to an 'atmospheric discoloration' explanation.

This proves that the star is dynamic based on time periods and thus Ultimecia's time period is about millions of years later, hence the star dying.

I don't know why you would want to argue against this. Because if it's actually millions of years later, it would be utterly impossible for Rinoa to reach to Ultimecia's time period.




Visuals are always meaningful if they keep showing up in certain areas of the game, apparently.

This visual does not 'keep showing up' so, by even by that logic, it's meaningless.
Not that your argument is evidence, of course.

You didn't provide evidence that it's meaningless, either.

[Flying Mullet]

Serapy, can you please address the fact that several people have mentioned that as a star ages it grows larger and the star is the same size in your screen shot?

[Ryushikaze]

You're admitting that this 'reference' is not meaningless? Finally!

No. Because the 'star' you refer to is not one Rinoa points at.


This proves that the star is dynamic based on time periods and thus Ultimecia's time period is about millions of years later, hence the star dying.

Or, it proves that airborn particles can cause light to be different colors.

[qote]I don't know why you would want to argue against this. Because if it's actually millions of years later, it would be utterly impossible for Rinoa to reach to Ultimecia's time period.[/quote]

This has nothing to do with 'want to', I argue against this because it's asinine.


You didn't provide evidence that it's meaningless, either.

I don't have to, child. You have to provide evidence that there is meaning, first.

[Serapy]

You're admitting that this 'reference' is not meaningless? Finally!

No. Because the 'star' you refer to is not one Rinoa points at.

I'm not talking about that star in the picture.




This proves that the star is dynamic based on time periods and thus Ultimecia's time period is about millions of years later, hence the star dying.

Or, it proves that airborn particles can cause light to be different colors.

We cannot detect neutrons, but we can detect airborn particles?




I don't know why you would want to argue against this. Because if it's actually millions of years later, it would be utterly impossible for Rinoa to reach to Ultimecia's time period.

This has nothing to do with 'want to', I argue against this because it's asinine.

*gasp* You actually like the R=U theory? :eek::eek::eek:




You didn't provide evidence that it's meaningless, either.

I don't have to, child. You have to provide evidence that there is meaning, first.

No, I don't. Because this isn't a theory. On the other hand, if you want to dismiss the discussion and make it become nonexistent, your counterclaims must include evidence!

[Ryushikaze]

I'm not talking about that star in the picture.

Then what is the relevance.


We cannot detect neutrons, but we can detect airborn particles?

Yes. We call them CLOUDS!


*gasp* You actually like the R=U theory? :eek::eek::eek:

Whether I like it or not is irrelevant. It is baseless.


No, I don't. Because this isn't a theory. On the other hand, if you want to dismiss the discussion and make it become nonexistent, your counterclaims must include evidence!

STOP TRYING TO SHIFT YOUR BURDEN OF PROOF.
THEORY OR NO, You assert something, you claim something, you say something has meaning, YOU hold the onus to support it with evidence. NOT the people who doubt what you say.

[qwertysaur]

Are you ignoring me Serapy. :cry:

Also we can detect Neutrons. Free neutrons decay into protons via the weak nuclear force, and we detect those indirectly.

[Flying Mullet]

Serapy, can you please address the fact that several people have mentioned that as a star ages it grows larger and the star is the same size in your screen shot?

[Darth Cid]

Are you ignoring me Serapy. :cry:

Also we can detect Neutrons. Free neutrons decay into protons via the weak nuclear force, and we detect those indirectly.

In some threads, he's avoiding Ryushikaze's replies and attacking my responses to his illogic.

[Slothy]

STOP TRYING TO SHIFT YOUR BURDEN OF PROOF.
THEORY OR NO, You assert something, you claim something, you say something has meaning, YOU hold the onus to support it with evidence. NOT the people who doubt what you say.

This. I love when people claim something then argue that someone else has to prove them wrong rather than having to offer evidence backing themselves up.

I could say kitty cat's are made of chocolate but it's not the job of others to prove me wrong. I have to bite into one myself to prove my point.

[Flying Mullet]

I could say kitty cat's are made of chocolate but it's not the job of others to prove me wrong. I have to bite into one myself to prove my point.
Sounds like a tasty experiment to me! :)

[qwertysaur]

But if you are wrong, then angry cat + your face = you not having a face :bigsmile:

[Slothy]

Best to test my theory on a de-clawed cat.

[Flying Mullet]

Or a dead one.

[Flying Arrow]

Maybe the characters are battling some time way, way, way in the future. Reminds me of Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, which is set on an Earth so far in the future that the sun is red and our own modern-day metropolises are crushed sediment and glass on Earth's beaches. If it's worth anything to anyone, Amano did some illustrations for the covers of the Japanese editions of Book. Not that it matters in this particular case, but it's an interesting coincidence. Also, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night contains a direct reference to the main character's ceremonial blade - so there are certainly Wolfe fans over in Japan's game development industry (or there were in the mid- to late-90s at least)!

[Ryushikaze]

Maybe the characters are battling some time way, way, way in the future. Reminds me of Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, which is set on an Earth so far in the future that the sun is red and our own modern-day metropolises are crushed sediment and glass on Earth's beaches. If it's worth anything to anyone, Amano did some illustrations for the covers of the Japanese editions of Book. Not that it matters in this particular case, but it's an interesting coincidence. Also, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night contains a direct reference to the main character's ceremonial blade - so there are certainly Wolfe fans over in Japan's game development industry (or there were in the mid- to late-90s at least)!

Vaguely possible, but not probable. Also, quite a lot of weapon names were changed in the SOTN translation.

In any case, dust clouds make the sun and moon red in our time already. Nuff said.