Boycott over the 360 inspired nerfing of the PS3 version? [Archive]

PDA

View Full Version : Boycott over the 360 inspired nerfing of the PS3 version?

Tainted Angel

11-23-2009, 09:17 AM

Who's going to skip FFXIII and go straight to vs XIII?

Fynn

11-23-2009, 12:04 PM

Who's going to skip FFXIII and go straight to vs XIII?

Um... Why would I do that?

VeloZer0

11-23-2009, 02:20 PM

I buy games that I think I will enjoy, and don't buy those which I don't think I will enjoy. If I didn't buy a game because I thought it could have been made better in some way I wouldn't own any games.

Wolf Kanno

11-23-2009, 03:50 PM

I'm actually starting to wonder if that is just a rumor cause with the exception of that blog post Dreddz found, I have yet to see any other article detail the same information given.

Why boycott it for this silly reason to begin with, I'd rather boycott it for more practical reasons like the fact the game looks utterly ridiculous and uninspired. (the sad thing is I'm still not sure if I'm joking about this statement or its my actual opinion)

the AJman

11-25-2009, 04:48 PM

Anyone who wants to boycott can go ahead and do that, I'm just to sit back and enjoy my copy of XIII when it comes out.

Psychotic

11-26-2009, 12:39 AM

I can't see the logic in it.

Boycotting the PS3 version = more sales for the 360 version = Square making more games for the 360 in future = OH DEARS. If Versus sells more than XIII does on the PS3, I think they will just take the view that people who own both consoles prefer games to be on the 360.

Christmas

11-26-2009, 01:15 AM

Computer version?:(

Croyles

11-26-2009, 04:57 AM

Who's going to skip FFXIII and go straight to vs XIII?

How about demonstrating against your local government for whatever skullduggery they are up to instead of taking video games too seriously? ;)

Mirage

11-26-2009, 05:09 AM

NeoCracker

11-26-2009, 05:14 AM

1. If they keep it a PS3 exclusive, they lose lots of potential money, and all the 360 players would lose out on a (probably) good game.

2. If I boycot the game, I lose out on a (probably) good game.

3. Source on nerf? (except the graphical nerf. I mean, only FF-noobs and graphics whores care about those, RIGHT?!) What exactly is being nerfed, do you even know?

The only thing that seems to have been 'nerfed' if you can call it that, is the multiple discs caused problems with quest's, and had to be limited to certain discs.

On the PS3, however, that problem didn't exist. However the game was altered on the PS3 so taht the quests could only be done during certain portions of the game in order to keep it on par with 360.

However, tis only a rumour as of now. While if it's true, it would piss me off, I'm still not boycotting the game, I think it might turn out alright.

Mirage

11-26-2009, 05:21 AM

Yeah I've *heard* that too. However, I don't take much notice of such things until I've seen a solid source for it. If it turns out to be true, it might be a minor annoyance because I like games to be a bit non-linear. In this case though, I suspect this isn't a major reason why the OP would want to boycot it. Then again, it's hard to know, cause he didn't really give a good reason why he's doing it anyway.

Vyk

11-26-2009, 07:32 AM

Who's going to skip FFXIII and go straight to vs XIII?

Who's going to grow up and stop desperately grasping for things to whine about needlessly?

Shlup

11-26-2009, 09:28 AM

I don't know what any of this means, but that was probably mean, Vyk. This is me telling you that if you are mean then I will be mad! And there will be wrath!

Raebus

11-26-2009, 12:58 PM

Pointless boycot is pointless. :D

crazybayman

11-26-2009, 03:05 PM

I'm boycotting them ALL, and only getting the one that's coming out on N64.

Serapy

11-26-2009, 04:23 PM

VeloZer0

11-27-2009, 04:59 AM

Your argument doesn't seem to make a lick of sense. They might not make as much money because piracy is more common on the 360. That seems an awful like a rationalization to explain what SE sees as a sound financial decission. And I can assure you they looked long at hard at the business implications of the decisions and have more information on which to base that decision than any of us will see in our lifetime.

Saying that keeping it guarantees money for the developers while releasing it on the 360 as well compromises their income is ludicrous. Simply put you are stating that for every copy that will be sold on the 360 someone will forgo purchasing it for the PS3 and pirate it on the 360.

Do we even know that they didn't have any plans not to develop for both systems? Even had they known from day 1, saving the release of that information for a later date is an extremely effective and cheep method for drawing attention to the title in the intermediary period between announcement and release. And so what if MS paid them to go multi-platform, more money to develop a game is a plus in my book.

And I can't understand why you think 360 owners wouldn't be interested in FFXIII because the 360 already has many good titles.

The Man

11-27-2009, 06:21 AM

Bolivar

11-27-2009, 06:31 AM

VeloZer0, there's plenty of reasons out there why multiplatform could be a worse idea. One has been stated by professionals in the industry like Rockstar's Dan Houser - you only have to work on and market for one machine, all the while you get more support from the console manufacturer. Second, is that they've had to dumb it down and worse quality will depreciate sales. Third, it being multiplatform could depreciate PS3 sales as it's now seen as an inferior good compared to exclusive games.

Lastly and most likely is that sales on the XBox 360 will be negligible. In general, the type of "gamer" that own 360s don't like JRPG's. I remember an IGN 360 podcast a few months ago when they were basically finding the idea hilarious because no one they know with a 360 wants to play Final Fantasy XIII. I seriously doubt anyone like the Rooster Teeth guys are actually looking forward to this game.

In any case, a boycott is ridiculous. On a personal level, I'll want to play the game regardless, and in general the video game consummerate has not matured to where they can orchestrate effective boycotts. The closest has been Left 4 Dead 2 where they got Valve to continue to support both games with free content, but it seems like that's something Valve was doing anyway.

In any case, making it multiplatform was a bad move creatively, but probably not enough to warrant a boycott.

Mirage

11-27-2009, 01:39 PM

1. If they keep it a PS3 exclusive, they lose lots of potential money, and all the 360 players would lose out on a (probably) good game.

No. Xbox 360 doesn't count because there's a significant amount of people who pirate games for the console. That means money not guaranteed for the developers. It's money guaranteed for developers if they make a game only for PS3. This isn't the case because XIII is already multiplatform, anyway.

Also, it doesn't mean multiplatformity > exclusivity in terms of profit. You can still make a lot of money if you develop game for a specific console. It just depends on how you initialise your marketing strategy.

SquareEnix is a rich company. If they knew that going multi-platform (according to your belief that multiplaform = more money) would make a lot more money than single-platform, why didn't they stick with that plan from the initial announcement of XIII back in 06? Fastforward to 2 or so years later, they've changed mind and decided to go for multiplaform. Why? It's very obvious that Microsoft paid them to go for multiplatform.

And stop saying that 360 would lose a (probably) good game. Dude, 360 has a lot of good games already.

2. If I boycot the game, I lose out on a (probably) good game.

360 has many good games, and you would whine if no XIII?

3. Source on nerf?

Here's a classic example:

Old

Picture removed to save space.

New

Picture removed to save space

Yeah, blame the downgrades and long delays on the Xbox 360!

God damn it, read my post before you reply. I said apart from the "graphical nerf". It isn't even clear why it was done. It could have been because of the 360, and it could also simply have been because they wanted to ensure more smooth framerates on both consoles.

Second, I don't have a 360, so I'm not whining about not getting a game for that console. I'm talking about not boycotting the PS3 version, because that would obviously mean -1 game for me. It is irrelevant which console I've got anyway, why did you even bring it up? Even if I did have an Xb360, what I said wouldn't even be remotely similar to whining. If you're trying to troll, you're being awfully bad at it.

Third, even with higher piracy rates on the 360, it is pretty dumb to think that they won't earn any money on the 360 version. If that was true, we wouldn't see as many 360 games as we currently do.

VeloZer0

11-27-2009, 05:28 PM

I didn't mean to say it was 100% guaranteed that going multi-platform was a good idea, the point was that Serapy's arguments to the contrary made no sense. The point was also that none of us have enough information or are qualified to comment on the economics of the situation, all we can offer is speculation.

"In general, the type of "gamer" that own 360s don't like JRPG's."

From what I have seen the JRPG library is just as good, if not better on the 360.

Mirage

11-27-2009, 06:25 PM

Yes, the 360 is a good "RPG platform", and it took forever for the PS3 to get a decent RPG lineup (and IMO it's still the yet unreleased titles that will let PS3 catch up). Making a sweeping generalization like "XB360 owners don't care about FF13" is madness. In fact now that I think about it, maybe it is the decent amount of 360 RPGs that made SE think it would be a good idea in the first place.

Nifleheim7

11-28-2009, 03:40 AM

I think the idea of boycotting a product is pretty much pointless.
I mean if someone believes that a product doesn't live up to his expectations he always has the choice to simply not buy it.Why does his decision have to be a part of some "greater cause"?

It's either you buy it or you don't.There's no in-between.

Garnie

11-30-2009, 12:10 AM

I'm boycotting them ALL, and only getting the one that's coming out on N64.

loooool

why does everyone hate 360? i dont get it. i love my 360! untill she red ring of deaths me. and thats only been the once.

I dont even wanna know about vs XIII its another example of square enix trying to bleed us for more money of what they think will "keep us interested" when the game it self will probably be unoriginal and crap. or not...i dunno.

hate spin of titles......all though strangely my biggest gaming secret is i kinda like X-2....but that was still crap and still makes me cringe lol.

black orb

11-30-2009, 12:28 AM

why does everyone hate 360?.
>>> Is a Microsoft console, atleast thats the reason why I hate it..

Well, It looks like Squarenix doesnt even care about FF/Playstation fans anymore.. Sad but true..http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/rodv/Luca-Walk-Front.gif

Moon Rabbits

11-30-2009, 12:29 AM

Who's going to skip FFXIII and go straight to vs XIII?

How about demonstrating against your local government for whatever skullduggery they are up to instead of taking video games too seriously? ;)

hear, hear

Yeah, how about we boycott Coca-Cola so they stop killing their workers. That seems like it will have a far more tangible outcome than this stupidity.

Those screenshots posted don't look different enough for me to care ... I actually kind of prefer the second :/

Mirage

11-30-2009, 12:44 AM

As if Sony as a company is so much better. So what if you don't like the 360? about 33 million others do, which is quite a few more people than who likes the PS3. And did you really think S-E cares about Playstation fans? I mean seriously? They've changed consoles in the past, they've made multi-console releases in the past, and they're doing it again with FF13. What S-E cares about is to earn money, not please fans of a certain lump of electronics, and if they ever cared before it would be because Sony paid them to care.

Also please explain to me *exactly* how they're ditching final fantasy fans, like you said, by letting more people than ever before play a specific installation of it. The only "fans" they would be "ditching" with a multiplatform release is the bunch of retards that are more interested in jerking off to how insanely much more awesome the piece of plastic and metal they bought is than what the others bought than the actual games, and to be quite honest, these people could go get swallowed by the earth in an inferno of flames for all I care.

Btw, I own a PS3, not a XB360.

-edit- post not aimed at moonrabbits

black orb

11-30-2009, 12:55 AM

>>> Oh well, we can always play the original FF13 jap version..http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/rodv/Luca-Walk-Front.gif

Mirage

11-30-2009, 01:02 AM

Which is gonna have different textures than the EU/US PS3 version?

black orb

11-30-2009, 01:06 AM

>>> Well, if those screens posted by Serapy are correct, Yes..http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/rodv/Luca-Walk-Front.gif

~*~Celes~*~

11-30-2009, 01:08 AM

I really don't understand why it's such a big deal. I mean, it's not like fanbase expansion is anything new...FF started out on Nintendo, remember? Didn't start making it for PS until FFVII, as a matter of fact, and that transition was VERY nice. Can't wait to see what it'll be like for the 360.

So, someone care to explain why it's so bad that they want to make it for 360 as well as PS3? Cause, like a lot of others, I'm not seeing the logic behind the complaint here.

Mirage

11-30-2009, 01:19 AM

>>> Well, if those screens posted by Serapy are correct, Yes..http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/rodv/Luca-Walk-Front.gif

I'm still waiting on a source that's telling the reason why they're different, as well as proving differences between versions/regions. Seraphy never supplied anything like that, and I haven't seen any either. Believe me, I have looked. There could be a myriad of reasons for the texture changes, we don't know for sure that it's even the 360's fault. But of course, a lot of PS3 fanboys are gonna claim it is with no backing just cause they hate the 360 for no good reason.

All that's for certain is that at one point, the textures were as shown in one of the screenshot, and that a different point, they were as in shown in the other screenshot.

black orb

11-30-2009, 01:25 AM

So, someone care to explain why it's so bad that they want to make it for 360 as well as PS3? Cause, like a lot of others, I'm not seeing the logic behind the complaint here.
>>> There is this thread too (http://forums.eyesonff.com/final-fantasy-xiii/127042-turns-out-360-really-did-compromise-ps3-version.html)..http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/rodv/Luca-Walk-Front.gif

Wolf Kanno

11-30-2009, 07:04 AM

Except that's the only blog that has come up with this claim, seriously Google the topic and you will find nothing official concerning this not even the Gametrailers interview the blog mentions. You would think a topic like this would be everywhere on the interweb but it isn't.

Most topics I find even talking about it are usually found on fan forums which are using it as fuel for more console war fodder. Most people are bitching cause they say the Japanese audio won't be an option for XIII cause it won't fit on the 360 version but if you actually go back to the interviews from this years E3 and Tokyo Game Show, you find out that SE just wasn't aware it was an option fans wanted. :roll2

*DISCLAIMER*This is a general rant and not targeted towards anyone specifically.

Seriously, this whole "they betrayed us" speech is just plain stupid. SE has expanded their market and will now reach a greater audiance than before. The game will probably still be a technical marvel and god knows we still have future entries to look forward to. Save the playground "my truck is better than your truck" speech back on the playground and just grow up. Its still FF and it still looks better on a technical level than any other game in the series. What's important is how it plays and how the story is, I don't think the 360 version preventing the developers from putting 25 enemies instead of 20 on the screen is a horrible blasphemy. Even the changes Kitase said happened in the interview are hardly terrible.

As for the picture changes, this is the smurfing game industry, they always butter up stuff, remember the "in-game" tech demo for Killzone 2 when the PS3 was getting ready to come out? Even the battle scenes from the original XIII trailer look staged rather than actual in-game footage, especially what we've seen now (which is better). Chances are the pics that looked different could be simple marketing brush job to make the game look even more amazing than it really is. Its not an uncommon practice.

Dignified Pauper

11-30-2009, 02:48 PM

Personally, the dumbing down does somewhat bother me, but I don't care enough so long as the game still has exceptional quality. I'd like to see a lot more comparison pictures as well.

That said, I know almost nothing about XIIIvs.

~*~Celes~*~

11-30-2009, 09:15 PM

I can see why that would bother you but really, like DP said, it really shouldn't matter THAT much, just as long as the quality is still good. And since I've seen it mentioned more than just once that that particular article that is used as the source for the other thread is the ONLY place that says anything about this cut, I find it hard to believe that anything like that is even going to happen, so...

Dignified Pauper

12-01-2009, 07:16 AM

Yeah, it's not like ANYONE has utilized a Blu-Ray disc at all yet. Square would have been my first guess, but it looks like they will shy away as well.

VeloZer0

12-01-2009, 01:05 PM

I don't think filling up a disk is really a measure of technical optimization. Star Ocean 3 was 2 DVDs, whereas FFXII was only half of one.

Dignified Pauper

12-01-2009, 02:23 PM

It's a pretty good indicator.

Rostum

12-02-2009, 09:17 AM

It's a pretty good indicator.

No, not really.

Croyles

12-02-2009, 09:29 AM

For anyone wondering about that screenshot comparison.

Sometimes developers will have a 'target render' so there is a level of quality they can aim for. Sometimes it turns out better, sometimes it turns out a little worse.

The first is the early target render version running on PC software, because the PC is the platform that they are developing on. However, this was still before their Crystal Tools was fully developed and so that was not real-time gameplay.

The second is a shot from late 2008 running on the consoles. Those are old. This scene has been shown again in new screens where the quality is pretty much the same if not better than the target render (when you dont compare gameplay to FMV screenshots).

The screenshots had false year labels. I got the link proving this somewhere, you'll have to trust me for now until I can find it again.

I will admit that last year I was a little worried of the game getting nerfed cause of its multiplatform nature as well, but SE seemed to really have worked their asses off so I don't see ANY reason to complain.

Bolivar

12-02-2009, 06:32 PM

There wasn't just one blog mentioning the cuts, a lot of places were reporting on the changes over time even Kotaku.

http://kotaku.com/5328458/final-fantasy-xiii-screenshots-youve-changed

The changes are from August 08 to June 09, unless Croyles finds the link that the year labels are wrong..

Croyles

12-02-2009, 08:40 PM

Well I cant find the link at the moment but if you look the 2008 images are non-playable whereas the 2009 ones are.

RoxasLeonhart

12-02-2009, 11:29 PM

y would anything 1 thats calls there self a Final fantasy fan skip ff13 or any neww ff title for that matter

Bolivar

12-02-2009, 11:33 PM

y would anything 1 thats calls there self a Final fantasy fan skip ff13 or any neww ff title for that matter

because of self-righteous, pseudo-elitist notions.

But your post is pretty much my thoughts exactly.

arcanedude34

12-03-2009, 12:29 AM

I'm skipping XII simply because I lack a PS3 or 360.

Woe is me.

D:

VeloZer0

12-03-2009, 12:55 AM

I think the boycott is stupid, but then again so is the notion that I would buy something that has the FF label on it just because I am a 'Final Fantasy Fan'. I buy games I am interested in, and don't buy ones I am not, simple as that. It just so happens that I like the majority of games in the Final Fantasy series, so that makes me a fan.

Mirage

12-03-2009, 01:06 AM

I'm skipping XII simply because I lack a PS3 or 360.

Woe is me.

D:

Good thing XII is for PS2 then ;)

Jiro

12-08-2009, 01:39 AM

Boycotting would be pointless. So what if it's nerfed? Still better than nothing.

Also I disagree with this post:

Well, It looks like Squarenix doesnt even care about FF/Playstation fans anymore..

Final Fantasy and Playstation are not synonymous. FF was born on a Nintendo console and has made appearances on a lot of other consoles. SquareEnix doesn't care about Playstation fans because it's not their job to.

black orb

12-10-2009, 06:22 PM

So what if it's nerfed? Still better than nothing.
>>> I also cant agree with such conformist behavior..:luca:

Mirage

12-10-2009, 07:35 PM

Well there's still plenty of other good points to agree with