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Slothy
12-12-2009, 02:45 AM
So it's been over two years since I made a thread and figured I might as well start another.

I've liked fighting games for years but was always more of a 3D fighter fan. In the last year or so though I've been getting more and more interested in 2D fighters, and studying how they're balanced has become a bit of a recent obsession.

So, since the only 2D fighters I've played in the last six or seven years are Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix, and Street Fighter 4, I'm looking for some recommendations for some good fighters to check out in within the next few months so I can learn them and how they're balanced.

PS2, PS3 and PSP would be preferred as I'd have a better chance of finding titles for those. I'm already getting Blazblue for Christmas, and I won't bother with Marvel vs. Capcom 2 on the PSN since I've had it for the Dreamcast since release (and already realize that it's not only terribly balanced in a lot of ways, but is nothing short of a miracle for being as balanced as it is). Any other titles are fair game though. I've been giving some thought to the Street Fighter Alpha series since they're on the PSN now for the most part, and Guilty Gear XX is up there on my list, but I'm unsure of which version I should get.

Also, just feel free to chat about fighting games in general because they are quite awesome. Sadly my Street Fighter 4 game pad has apparently died today. I think I'll replace it with a full Arcade stick soon if I can.

NeoCracker
12-12-2009, 02:57 AM
Blazblu is easily my favorite 2D fighter. It may have a relatively small roster of characters, 13, they are all so fun to play as. The animation is smooth, and it has probably the best story of any fighting game I've played.

My favorite character is easily Rachel. Much love for Henry XIII. <3 (I think that was her frogs name. :p)

Rad Bromance
12-12-2009, 03:00 AM
I'm quite hooked on Soul Calibur 4. It's definitely not for everyone, but online is so much fun to me. Far more fun than SF4 online. :D

JKTrix
12-12-2009, 03:28 AM
My top favourite fighting games are Capcom vs SNK 2, Street Fighter 3, and Virtua Fighter 4&5. If you can get Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution (PS2), that game has the greatest training mode of any fighting game, ever. VF is the most complex game out there, but it is really rewarding once you learn it. And by going through VF4's training mode, you can learn a lot of things that can be applied to other fighting games, 3D or otherwise. It's not as flashy as most other 3D fighters, which I guess is part of why it isn't as popular as the others, but I would still assert it is the best.

VF5 is more accessible to newcomers than the past ones were, as still retains all the depth and complexity but it's easier to do okay just by button mashing. You will still get utterly destroyed by someone who knows what they're doing though, so it's not like a Bloody Roar or a similar game where button mashing can turn tables regardless of skill gaps.

I bought my PS3 for Virtua Fighter 5. When I went to Japan in '06, one of my major reasons was to play Virtua Fighter 5 in the arcades. It kind of sucks that the later 360 version of VF5 is superior, and I bought it anyway, but it actually started a trend--I bought Soulcalibur 4 and Street Fighter 4 for both systems. But that trend stopped with BlazBlue.

I'm not as big of a fan of the Guilty Gear style, and by extension BlazBlue, as it is a liiiitle too frantic for me to really take seriously, but I do enjoy playing them. The latest version of Guilty Gear XX that has been released is 'Accent Core Plus'.

I am pretty hardcore into the fighting games. I have a few different arcade sticks, but my favourite one is the 'Virtua Stick High Grade' that I got for the PS3, and it has since been modified to work on both the PS3 and the 360. It's unfortunately out of print now, but it remains the best stick I have. I also have the 'Hori Real Arcade Pro' for both the PS3 and 360, with different buttons, but I still really prefer my VirtuaStick. I imported Tatsunoko vs Capcom, which came with a Wii arcade stick too. That's a pretty fun game, and I look forward to the US release.

Slothy
12-12-2009, 03:55 AM
I somehow knew you'd come in with some good opinions JKTrix.

I've had Virtua Fighters 4 and 5 for some time. I never bothered with VF4 Evolution because it just wasn't worth buying a whole new game for two new fighters in my eyes at the time. The training mode was good in the first version of VF4, but I always preferred the Weapon Master mode in Soul Calibur 2 as a training mode. I mean it wasn't strictly a training mode per se, but it did an excellent job in teaching some advanced gameplay concepts, particularly with the later challenges which introduced some brutal handicaps. Sadly, I've found my interest in 3D fighters kind of waning since those. I still haven't played SC4, but VF5 and SC3 just didn't pull me in as much as their predecessors. I think my tastes at the moment are moving towards games that are simpler in design and move lists, but still rich in strategy and tactics, particularly when playing other people.

Thanks for reminding me of Capcom vs. SNK and Street Fighter 3. Not sure how either of them slipped my mind recently, but I've been meaning to try both for a while. I've particularly become interested in SF3's parry system, especially since I first saw video of this match: YouTube - EVO Moment #37 - Daigo(Ken) defeats Justin(Chun-li) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_5BHmaSI4)
Seeing a player actually turn a fight like that around is simply astounding.

And thanks once again for the arcade stick suggestions. I'd like your thoughts on the Street Fighter 4 tournament edition arcade stick if you've ever used it. I've heard it's a high quality stick, and last I saw a nearby EB still had at least one in stock, so just wondering if you've ever used it and if you'd think it's worth the purchase if it's readily available to me.

Markus. D
12-12-2009, 04:00 AM
I prefer 2-Way run games over 8-way.

But I don't hate 8-way either.

Kyros
12-12-2009, 04:05 AM
If you like street fighter then get 3rd strike since its infinitely better than 4 (which is boring imo). MvC2 is pretty awesome too.

btw Daigo and Justin Wong went to Japan for a big tourney as a team and got destroyed, both by one guy on the other team playing Q; that was a good Q lol

Depression Moon
12-12-2009, 04:17 AM
Daigo and Justin got destroyed as tag team partners?
Huh? I thought they were the top 2 SF players in the world?

Anyway I'm playing Tekken 6 a lot and it's a good game if you're really into fighters. It just lacks game modes, which is funny since namco makes Soul Calibur and that series always has more options, with arena battles, better story mode and such. The gameplay in 6 is terrific though. The online has been patched but I've noticed no difference and according to what other people say it's because I have a cheap internet provider (clear). ugh.

JKTrix
12-12-2009, 04:36 AM
I'll go out on a limb and say the SF4 Tournament stick is definitely worth getting. Haven't had a chance to use it myself, but the man who was responsible for putting it together is probably the most hardcore stick-er I know. He runs the 'SDTekken.com' site which keeps a pretty good technical list of arcade sticks (http://sdtekken.com/tech-area/arcade-sticks/), all of which he owns personally.

As for that Street Fighter video... Daigo and Justin clashed twice this year in Street Fighter 4. The first was during the Gamestop tournament at the beginning of the year, where Daigo utterly trashed Justin. The 2nd one was at the 2009 Evolution tournament--the same venue that that SF3 video took place--and it was an intense, intense battle.

VF4 Evo is worth purchasing for the training dojo alone. It was released brand new in '03 for $20, and I've seen 'brand new' prices for it for around $6. I understand that Vivi isn't into it, but if anyone else reading is interested in getting into or learning more about fighting games. Seriously, it is far deeper than any other fighting game. It teaches you exactly how to do things like 'Evading Throw Escape Guards', the difference between a full spinning attack and a half spinning attack, how to deal with specific types of combat situations, when and when not to throw, things like that. The fact that it actually shows you the exact inputs and the timing of such, and even provides performance-based suggestions if you fail at it makes it almost feel like you're actually learning a martial art. I can understand if it doesn't click with you though, after already having played it. VF5 in particular was pretty barebones, which doesn't help with its accessibility.

This video shows part of that mode (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkCBsV8rAao#t=1m32s), where after it teaches you how to do the 'evade/throw escape/guard' it tests you on it.

Slothy
12-12-2009, 12:23 PM
VF4 Evo is worth purchasing for the training dojo alone. It was released brand new in '03 for $20, and I've seen 'brand new' prices for it for around $6. I understand that Vivi isn't into it, but if anyone else reading is interested in getting into or learning more about fighting games. Seriously, it is far deeper than any other fighting game. It teaches you exactly how to do things like 'Evading Throw Escape Guards', the difference between a full spinning attack and a half spinning attack, how to deal with specific types of combat situations, when and when not to throw, things like that. The fact that it actually shows you the exact inputs and the timing of such, and even provides performance-based suggestions if you fail at it makes it almost feel like you're actually learning a martial art. I can understand if it doesn't click with you though, after already having played it. VF5 in particular was pretty barebones, which doesn't help with its accessibility.

Okay, that officially looks and sounds like the best training mode ever after all. When I get back into 3D fighters someday (which I know I will. I do love them, I'm just kind of tired of them and moving in new directions lately since I largely avoided 2D fighters in my youth) I might get it just to refresh my understanding of the series and it's techniques. I would also second the recommendation of VF to any fighting game fan. It is not only the deepest fighting game I've ever played, but manages to be one of the most balanced fighting games I've ever played, period.

Dreddz
12-12-2009, 03:39 PM
9 replies and not one mention of Samurai Shodown? For shame. Seriously, buy the Samuari Shodown Anthology for the PS2 or PSP. The series has had its ups and downs (moreso than any other fighter I can think of) but look no further than Samurai Shodown 2 for one of the most refined and satisfying fighters ever made. Kind of went downhill from there unfortunately.

black orb
12-12-2009, 04:45 PM
>>> I was about to recommend Samurai Shodown, SS4 is still the best in think, play some King of Fighters games too, KoF98 is my fav.
There are also a ton of 2D fighters for the NeoGeo arcades like "Last Blade I, II" the SNK ones are some of the best. Here is a list.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Neo_Geo_games)
You can play those in the computer with a Neo Geo or MAME emulator..:luca:

Shattered Dreamer
12-12-2009, 05:06 PM
Aside from the Tekken, MK & SF series games there is only one fighting series I ever cared about Battle Arena Toshinden! BAT was the first game I got for my PSX & I love it even too this day. Not the most complicated or engrossing fighting games but I loved it.

Kyros
12-12-2009, 10:37 PM
I'd take Bushido Blade, Last Blade, Tekken, SC4 or 2, or tons of other fighters over SF4 or the new KoF crap any day. :)

Elly
12-13-2009, 04:50 PM
the "Dead or Alive" series is my favorite 3D fighters, the speed and response times are amazing (DoA1, not so much)... my favorite 2D fighters are "Guilty Gear", and the "Street Fighter" series, once again because of speed and response times... i can't stand any fighter that does not respond as fast as i hit a button, i tried "Tekken" and "King of Fighters" a few years back but found their response times and speed to be horrible... for really old school i love "Mortal Combat 1-3", "Samurai Showdown", "World Heros", & "Eternal Champions CD", i really miss that last one...

Lionx
12-14-2009, 08:30 AM
Favorites : Capcom vs SNK 2(by far), SFII HD Remix, and currently Street Fighter IV. CvS2 is probably the best 'Alpha' game out there so if you are into that you should give it a shot. And if you are obsessed with parries, theres P Groove in the game that allows it.

=========

There was a third Daigo vs Justin this year at Season's Beatings with Daigo taking it yet again. Guy is literally The Beast.

As for the SFIV TE stick, its def worth a buy. My friend has it, and it has some really good authentic Sanwa parts. The insides is also extremely easy to mod/replace parts as well. I have not bought the Round 2 sticks though, but the Round 1 ones are definitely top grade and won't let you down.

Having said that, it is very sensitive, the buttons and stick so you have to be a lil more precise. Not that its bad, but some people prefer American Sticks because they have more strong motions. So consider that too.

For online play i would recommend googling up GGPO...and in case you are wondering about a gaming peripheral for your PC, the SFIV TE sticks for both PS3/Xbox360 work on PC. The netcode is top notch and free to play.

VF also has the best Tutorial imo...they need that in SFIV or hell any fighting game...

Slothy
12-14-2009, 12:20 PM
There was a third Daigo vs Justin this year at Season's Beatings with Daigo taking it yet again. Guy is literally The Beast.

From the way David Sirlin describes Daigo, I'm not surprised he would take it. The man sounds utterly insane, and certainly looks it from the videos I've seen.


As for the SFIV TE stick, its def worth a buy. My friend has it, and it has some really good authentic Sanwa parts. The insides is also extremely easy to mod/replace parts as well. I have not bought the Round 2 sticks though, but the Round 1 ones are definitely top grade and won't let you down.

I picked up one of the round 2 sticks two days ago after reading that they are literally the same stick just different artwork, and it was $2 cheaper. I wasn't too particular about which I went with artwork wise so why not save a whole $2? :D

Anyway, I'm loving the thing. It's taking a bit of getting used to since I've never used an Arcade stick extensively before, but after one run through arcade mode in SF2 HD Remix I was pulling off moves almost as well as I had with the gamepad, blocking better than I ever have, and even pulling off a crazy comeback that was part luck, part faster reactions thanks to the responsiveness of the stick. I swear I will never use a regular controller for a fighting game again if I have a choice.


For online play i would recommend googling up GGPO...and in case you are wondering about a gaming peripheral for your PC, the SFIV TE sticks for both PS3/Xbox360 work on PC. The netcode is top notch and free to play.

Unfortunately, the TE only works on PC's with an Intel chipset and mine has an Nvidia chipset. Something to do with how they handled USB in the stick itself. I'll try it to confirm, but I may not be able to use it on my PC. WOn't be a problem forever though if I build a new PC in a year or two which I'd like.


VF also has the best Tutorial imo...they need that in SFIV or hell any fighting game...

Couldn't agree more. The tutorials in most fighting games are lackluster at best. There's more to learning a game than just learning the special moves.

Lionx
12-14-2009, 01:38 PM
Unfortunately, the TE only works on PC's with an Intel chipset and mine has an Nvidia chipset. Something to do with how they handled USB in the stick itself. I'll try it to confirm, but I may not be able to use it on my PC. WOn't be a problem forever though if I build a new PC in a year or two which I'd like.


Hmm i don't know why it wouldn't work. Just the other day my friend's TE stick (Xbox360) plugged into my laptop to play SFIV on the PC. I also use Nvidia for my gfx card and it worked perfectly fine. I even use a PS3 Hori stick on my PC regularly just fine...so it should work.

Slothy
12-14-2009, 02:47 PM
Unfortunately, the TE only works on PC's with an Intel chipset and mine has an Nvidia chipset. Something to do with how they handled USB in the stick itself. I'll try it to confirm, but I may not be able to use it on my PC. WOn't be a problem forever though if I build a new PC in a year or two which I'd like.


Hmm i don't know why it wouldn't work. Just the other day my friend's TE stick (Xbox360) plugged into my laptop to play SFIV on the PC. I also use Nvidia for my gfx card and it worked perfectly fine. I even use a PS3 Hori stick on my PC regularly just fine...so it should work.

It's not the Graphics card that's the issue but the Motherboard chip set and the USB standard that each company uses. The PS3 stick uses a standard that is proprietary to Intel which is why it won't work unless you have an Intel motherboard. Like I said, I'll double check it to make sure eventually, but I don't expect anything. It's unlikely I'd be using anything but an Intel motherboard in my next PC build though so in a year or two I wouldn't have any problems using it.

A work around (of sorts) would be to buy a Pci card with USB slots that is known to be compatible, but I have no room left on my motherboard, and wouldn't want to bother spending the money on what I know will be a temporary problem at worst.

Kyros
12-15-2009, 12:53 AM
I'm still not seeing anything attractive about SF4 =/

Slothy
12-15-2009, 12:56 AM
What is it about SF4 exactly that you don't like?

Kyros
12-15-2009, 12:59 AM
It just seems boring compared to pretty much every other fighter I play, and when I watch high end play idk why I'm supposed to be impressed. The pace feels so much slower to me even though the matches may sometimes be over faster.

Depression Moon
12-15-2009, 01:10 AM
Doesn't seem like much detailed reasoning. I have some animosity towards it too, but I won't go in depth unless asked. my connection is better now so I can play online pretty well now. So if anyone wants to play me on SFIV or Tekken 6 I'm up for it.

Kyros
12-15-2009, 01:14 AM
I see slow and boring as reason enough to not care for a game =/

Slothy
12-15-2009, 01:20 AM
Doesn't seem like much detailed reasoning. I have some animosity towards it too, but I won't go in depth unless asked. my connection is better now so I can play online pretty well now. So if anyone wants to play me on SFIV or Tekken 6 I'm up for it.

It may not be detailed reasoning, but the feel of the game (speed, physics, etc.) has changed from previous titles. He may not be able to put his finger on it, but that alone might be why he doesn't like it. By the same token I've never liked Tekken. It's been a while since I played one now but I just never liked the way combat felt or how the characters moved and attacked. I might be better able to put my finger on exactly what it is that bothers me know and why if I spent a good deal of time with one, but I just can't get into them enough to bother.

Now that I plan on playing more SF4 though, feel free to hit me up for some matches if you catch me on. Even if I'm playing another game I'll probably switch over if you message me. I still suck, and probably will for a while longer just yet, but that doesn't mean we can't have some friendly bouts.

Depression Moon
12-15-2009, 02:19 AM
I haven't played in a while either so I'm sucky now too.

Lionx
12-15-2009, 02:21 AM
Vivi22 i doubt it but you play it on PC? XD;

and maybe Kyros, you are into more combo based games like Guilty Gear or BlazBlue...? Not everyone is into the more simple playstyle of SFIV.

Slothy
12-15-2009, 03:20 AM
Sorry Lionx but I do my SF4 gaming on the PS3. It's a shame so few people from EOFF have one because I love playing with the people here.

If you happen to play PC titles other than SF4 though (and use Steam) then you can go ahead and add me.

Kyros
12-16-2009, 07:48 AM
Vivi22 i doubt it but you play it on PC? XD;

and maybe Kyros, you are into more combo based games like Guilty Gear or BlazBlue...? Not everyone is into the more simple playstyle of SFIV.

I like those and 3d fighters, but I liked 3rd strike A LOT too. Capcom vs SNK 2 is awesome too. SF4 was a pretty big downgrade imo so I was looking forward to the new KoF in hopes it'd be good till I watched my friend play it for 30 mins the day it came out then returned it b/c it sucked hard =/

Slothy
12-17-2009, 03:25 AM
I like those and 3d fighters, but I liked 3rd strike A LOT too. Capcom vs SNK 2 is awesome too. SF4 was a pretty big downgrade imo so I was looking forward to the new KoF in hopes it'd be good till I watched my friend play it for 30 mins the day it came out then returned it b/c it sucked hard =/

SFIV was more of an attempt to build on SF2's gameplay than SF3 which is probably why it feels like a downgrade coming from SF3. It's a fair enough opinion as it is simplified in that sense, but I think it's still got a fair bit of strategic possibilities to it though.

And after playing some SFIV and SF2 HD Remix today I'm not only wondering why I stopped playing them in the first place, but also if it's just me or if there is a big difference in the skill level of players online for each? I played several matches in SFIV over the course of the day online and won all but two I believe (lost one to Depression Moon. Had a lot of fun by the way, so we'll have to play more sometime when I'm not packing to move in two days. :D), but in three or four matches of HD Remix I won maybe a round each time in a best of three. I was literally getting decimated most of the time, even though I think I was adapting as well as I could without more practice.

Still, I'm loving both games again and can't wait for Super SFIV in a few months even if I do have to buy a whole new game for it. The new stick is still working out great too. I'm pulling off more consistent shoryukens with Ryu now, though I still miss them here and there. I think I'll have to start learning some new fighters though, because I'd hate to just play Ryu all of the time.

Lionx
12-17-2009, 11:08 AM
Personally, i find SFIV to be more SF3-ish than SF2. Two button command throws, no damage techs, slower pace of the game, ex moves, and focus attacks... Definitely feels more SF3 to me.

The only thing that they kept in some shape or form thats SF2 is the zoning aspect, which matters 10x more in SF2 than it ever does in SFIV.

In SF2 things were much more fast paced. Throws only got softened which promoted offense...theres rarely any chip damage in SFIV compared to SF2, which makes it more turtly, and theres no guard bar making block strings matter alot less. Not to mention more risky because of the 10 frame gap for reversals (like a shoryuken) if you mess up a link instead of 1-2 frame for them in SF2... I swear at the arcade, while i was doing blockstrings, the other guy is just MASHING visibly for a shoryuken(since you can just tap diagonal forward twice in SFIV to come out)...and crap like that works in this game whereas that would never fly in the others.

So while its marketed as staying true to SF2's formula, i think its just an attempt to grab the older audience that grew up playing it in addition to using pretty-looking Ultras as marketing bait. The real gameplay to me is vastly different and more defensive in nature compared to SF2.

And play Abel, guy has bad defense but is an offensive recking machine!!...and i play him lol

Kyros
12-18-2009, 05:32 AM
SF3 felt faster paced to me, and focus attacks were new to SF so how is SF4 more like 3 than 2? Not to mention its just a giant campfest sometimes which is dull =/

Lionx
12-18-2009, 01:44 PM
To me a Focus Attack is like a Parry with commitments into them. You can avoid an attack, but with higher risk than a parry if you understand me. SF2 had no such system, positioning was all you had to determine whether you ate something or not.

Campfest is what i meant by the lack of chip damage/guard bars, and huge reversal timings...especially those with uppercuts that lead to Ultra. Am totally not going to eat an ultra because my blockstrings dont have enough blockstun and they mashed an Uppercut, and cancel into an Ultra...